Chairman Oakley Northeast Rural area vision
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Sep 15, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Sep 15, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Sep 15, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Sep 15, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 19m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 87% of 83 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
Because they're gonna take up some of the warehouse space to put this new design in and they're thinking about expanding to another another warehouse uh for storage. So but they move a lot of water, so and it's the best water made right here in Pasco County. But um I guess um I'll give you I wasn't gonna give you a report, but I think I'll give you a little report. I you know we've I've selected a advisory uh committee to look
at the Northeast rule. And We've had a couple of meetings that hadn't gone quite as I had planned because I'm not getting the advice that I I already have myself, but um I think I think we'll get 'em working toward that goal. We got we got to or we we won't need them. I can do modeling advising. But uh the fact of it is, um When when you ask for advice about a a major intersection of our county, our
northernmost intersection, which is uh 41 and 75, there has to be commercial. There has to be commercial in that area. Uh This group's not all of 'em, but some. Don't want anything to happen to them. And then we got Arterial Road, which is County Road 41. They don't want any traffic traveling on it. Um that can't happen either. So they gotta come on it. That that's a major arterial road, even though
it comes through Northeast Ruhe. But I've envisioned um you know, with uh coming out we're gonna have more commercial coming out on uh three on one up to Licucci and then of course we're doing the expanding with a couple of businesses we got going in up at Lacucci now and there's some others looking at property. Um so with that uh There's gonna have to be some housing up there and there's also gonna have to be some more commercial as far
as maybe even a grocery store or some of these things like this. But y you get looking at a picture and start doing one thing and getting jobs, then you gotta house these folks because you don't want them living in Ornando County. So I like to look at that northern part of our county that runs up against Hernando and and pictures. And and so when I say that then I say, well, we're gonna need some housing and not just workforce housing, but we need some other housing and some other warehousing up that way too. If you
don't do it you lose some of that basis, some of that that will come into Pasco County that we won't. But you also need housing for 'em too. So but if you look at it I got this picture in my mind that you go down a road and and instead of um uh doing conservation housing. My vision is that you would come down a road um That's
set up. You'll have uh big setbacks with trees all along the road and you'll come by but you'll see a entrance that goes into a very nice development like you would see on the west side or whatever. But it's rural. So you have all these trees and all there, so you'll have this nice driveway that goes into these estates or a village. And you can drive in there, when you drive in there, there's homes and things of that nature, but you don't see it from the road. It's rural. And
so in talking about that the last couple of weeks and thinking about it myself, I said well the rural area And I hear some of the Northeast Rural folks talking. about they'd like to see equestrian and some of these other things. So then I thought I said, well there's there's and what I was talking about is to the north of Tribe and up around our county line for the for that that I was first visualizing. But if you had an equestrian site In
that area somewhere. And you did an equestrian type, rural type homes that are not all your 40s, 50s, nothing like that. Larger lots. You could have two and a half acres, five acres, ten acres, larger if they want them. You'd have around outside because you're gonna have wide setbacks. You'll have uh not only a walking trail but you'll have a riding trail in that area. I mean there's Most people didn't know I didn't realize
how many acres were involved when they laid the overlay over the northeast rule. There's 56,000 acres out there. So If and most people will say, Oh, I want to keep it the same, I want to keep it the same. But the fact of it is The same's not good enough. the same keeps you down and looking I mean 'cause you can go by old houses, old barns about to fall down, all this stuff that looks rough. Well we need better
than that in Pasco County. So we need them Upgrade that that rule to look better. But still have uh a good expanse of around all these properties of where you could have trees and things that to kind of block it, but then you'd show different size lots throughout. Which is very good transition, very good pleasing to the eye type rural neighborhood. And and yet not not
be like Connected City, not like be like you know, Wesley Chapel. I actually envision Connected City is the way it is. I envision and I've talked to the folks with uh villages of Pasadena Hills, I envision Pasadena Hills being a step up and better than Connected City. And then I envision the rural area being something even better than that. That's very rural, but not so overcrowded.
But yet you've got home sites and people can have the style of living they want to out in that area. That because this is a big area, a big area out there. But we can't just sit still and just say nothing can happen here. It doesn't work that way. So but that's some of the vision I've had lately that uh I think would be very nice for that area. So I mean, were you here when you hear let me ask you this Were you here when they Put the overlay of uh
Yeah we w um Jack and I were on on the board and m my recollection
way back when I was see
that's what concerns me.
Wasn't that part of a lawsuit?
No, that was just from eager citizens.
Northeast World.
Yeah, that was part of that lawsuit.
Yeah, it was part of the it was part of the
Yeah.
And I don't know that history. Yeah. David probably could tell us more.
It was a citizens initiative to create the northeast rural area, but there were some landowners that challenged that development. So there was a lawsuit, but it was by the landowners before.
I don't mean this in the wrong way, but when they put that overlay on that property they took away some of the rights of the owners of that live in that area or have property in that area. No, I don't think Ms. Darkey's family has a lot of problem. Would you have liked the rural area on on top of what you
have? You know, there was this lawsuit that w that We were working to settle when we were doing it. I wasn't there when the lawsuit came. Right. We were just trying to settle it. Um but my recollection was that um staff was very careful to not take away property rights. That um but that if what that what the outcome of that was that that if you wanted more density The density had to be um um concentrated
because so that all the so that the rural nature of that area s it's had that feel with the long views and there was there was so no one had any Any um Property values taken away. Um because they weren't none of the um their their density credits I'm no expert in this, but their their density credits stayed there because I'm a very as you know I'm a very big property rights person. So we want to make sure we didn't
take away anyone's property rights. But that the difference was that they got And David, you were there, so m and I think you worked on this. If they wanted more density, um it was to be more of a village type.
Okay, yeah. That's what they were calling.
Yeah, they call it conservation subdivision, but doesn't that have limits to it that that hinder some of the density?
It it's limited And sense that you it's still limited by the underlying comprehensive plan driven that limits the maximum density. It just says that you have to cluster the density and then have open space around them, effectively.
And and
a sense that's what I'm actually uh that's what my vision is is a fact and and may I say I may look at uh conservation easement a little different than what it is. But having great setbacks for the odd trees where you'd only see this nice entryway going in this place but you wouldn't see the homes at all, but didn't have a a village effect or something. back in the back where you don't see it from the roadway and keep that.
But one thing that wasn't specifically addressed at all was the non-residential component addressed at all. No. So we didn't touch that. And I know that Commissioner Oakley made a motion, I think, at the last board meeting to have staff create a plan for that area. So maybe as part of that planning effort you can
work
on some of the things that we're talking about.
Right. And it and it is. That's part that's part of it. But it is still in the fact of having setbacks, having trees, where you don't ride down the road to see all that like you would somewhere else. So um And I think it's a very beautiful vision to to see that like that. 'Cause um you ride out there now and what you see is not necessarily the prettiest view or prettiest thing you can see right down the highway. But I'm talking about improvements that would
make it.
Yeah, Terry'll answer too 'cause I I kinda worry him out with some of my stuff. So
Uh Nictoria Spito's planning development. Can you repeat the question? Is the the question is whether we have a consultant to do the job or
No no. What what I was asking is my idea of a conservation easement is different than what my view of a rural area with the setbacks with trees. It could be set up different behind those trees and all, like in villages and things of that nature.
So you you're you're confuse you're confusing two topics. So what David said, which is what the board adopted, was a conservation subdivision. which is a type of development. Conservation easement is something you place on property to protect. I understand it, right,
yeah. I I know what you're
talking about.
I just said it wrong.
I I think I know what you mean. Um
But I my vision is that and 'cause you you talk to people in the rural area whether they don't wanna see all these houses all close together and all that. We have another project coming before us in the near future. It's gonna be on fifty-two and I won't. you're probably having meetings with some folks about it. That's very similar to what I'm thinking that that uh rural area or or conservation um construction would be like, so
Yeah, so conservation subdivisions often uh respond to the geography that they're in. So the particular the size of their property, for example, um can affect how you design a conservation subdivision. So a conservation subdivision can be something that's constrained by a lot of hotlands, let's say, and then you have like fifty four-wide lots because of that. Um but they can also be much bigger and larger in s scope and size depending on the kind
of constraints that you're dealing with. You just have to understand it properly that you're dealing with when you're designing for the right.
Um but let me ask you a question because everybody out there has um and I'm not again a land use attorney, everyone out there has property rights and densities they're allowed without doing anything different to their property. Is that right?
They have the designations that are applied in the comprehensive plan and and what's enabled by the zoning group.
So my understanding was that they can put in a five-acre they can put they can put X amount of units on their property.
if they want more units They want to add more units than what they are allowed to do. They ha then it triggers
Typically. So so we didn't take any rights away. That's what I was pretty sure we did know.
Well it f it felt like to me they took rights away.
Yeah.
And that's my
thing. Yeah, typically when people want something more, they'll come in for an approval process. I can't hear you Terry.
What do you
think? Typically when they do something when they want something more they can come in for an approval process to increase density, for example. Or another reason why they might come in to do it for an approval is they're keeping the density to what the comprehensive plan identifies, but they're they're making other changes to the site that require different considerations to be made.
And um and and I and if I if I remember the consultant that we had that helped us. when we were settling this lawsuit, s what was saying they we were given costs of um Like uh one acre lots or three acre lots. I mean how the cost to provide services if you put a few houses over a large area I don't know if you remember when they put the fire station
up the cost goes through the roof for the c to to deliver the the water. the sewer, the sidewalks, whatever, the the fire trucks. But so I think part of it was to also stop sprawl, which is very expensive. Yeah.
But go ahead. The comprehensive plan has provisions in there. And I think that that cut off on that s on that sprawl, let's call it, is is the Res One future line.
Yeah. Yeah. So um but uh I I I'll say something to you though. Um uh and Jack you just went to Switzerland. It's uh it's it's an in it's a it's a very
It it's in the in Switzerland and and in Europe they do their towns d like that. Um and I'm hoping Pasadena Hills looks a little bit like that. I don't know with the village concept where you have a little more. But I
picture this different than Pasadena Hills.
But if you w if you want to have a lot of homes um and a lot a l that they're closer together and then you have still have the the um rural lands around it, which I think everybody loves. I mean, obviously. I mean I think that was part of the idea of protecting them area. And it seems like every county has uh something like that. And it seems to be to the north of the county. It's funny 'cause uh 'cause if you look in Odessa Penellas
County. and Hillsboro have their rural area In the north. And uh and then you get to our line. And then Hernando will probably do it on their north side, but their southern line next to our rural area will be where it builds up. It's it's the dumb American pattern.
Well I I didn't I wanna I have some pictures I wanted to show.
Can I make just one statement on to what you were saying though? And then you you're Saying the
same
thing, and it might be tied on. When we did the comprehensive plan back in 2004-5, that whole thing, one of the things I said is we don't want to do what Pinellas and Hills Row did was make their northern section all rural. Hernando's going to be grow, you know, developing. We need to take that whole half-a-mile section all the way across and really look at protecting that. And I've always said when we picked our employment centers out and around, when we have a roadway and it could be 41 in County Line Road, it could be elsewhere, et cetera. When you have those adjoining
intersections, that's a great place for your commercial. And if you get a job creator that wants to come in there, let 'em go do that around that intersection.
Yeah.
The market for the homes will come elsewhere. But let that come, but let the jobs come in those intersections and everything else can stay rural so we don't turn into a Claremont with a strip row and have everything around it. But we can still keep it the rural look. But you'll find those densities when you get the need for it, you know, down the road. So you're I like I like your approach.
Up to Commissioner Oakley's specific question. I think you have a good framework with the conservation subdivisions. The issue is that developers aren't building them. We haven't had, I don't think we've had a single one come in. And so we probably need to sit down with the development community, maybe one of those.
Um we probably need to sit down with the development community and figure out why they're not building conservation subdivisions and see if there's some
I think it's part of the expense.
That's kind of what I'm getting at. I think there's something there that is a gem. Um a lot of people will say well people don't want two and a half acre lot or a five acre lot. There's a number of people because there won't be that many. There's a number of people that want that kind of lifestyle and that's what you consider as rule.
So my question for Terry was does he have a consultant that can work on that? That was really my my question to answer. Yeah. The answer is
yes, we have consultants. I'm currently working with One in particular to develop the idea that the Commissioner expressed in the previous meeting in
So um I'm just I'm just thinking some of my thoughts out loud. So but I thought it was a perfect time to do it and
I wanted to show um these pictures. Thank you,