P7 PDD 197411 rezoning AC to MF1
What the county recorded
This item is not from the published agenda
It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.
The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, May 9, 2019
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, May 9, 2019
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 31m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 70% of 178 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
We're gonna move on to uh item which is now P P seven.
Okay.
Okay. So item P7 is a rezoning from AC to MF1 Multiple Family Medium Density District in the name of Lawrence P. Martinez, PDD 197411.
Don't
get used
to it.
The property is located in south central Pasco County. It's on the west side of Hay Road, approximately 1,500 feet south of Wesley Chapel Boulevard. The request is to rezone the property from AC Agricultural District to MF One Multiple Family Medium Density District.
And uh the parcel contains approximately 5.99 acres. So the applicant, um sorry.
The applicant proposes to rezone the property and has agreed to voluntarily deed restrict the property to have a total of 35, a maximum of 35 single-family attached townhomes in conformance with the MF1 Multiple Family Medium Density District Standards for Development. That means that this will not be an apartment complex. The surrounding area is characterized by Grand Oak's MPUD, which consists of attached single-family townhomes, and also undeveloped multifamily
parcels that have been entitled for multi-family to the north. It also has single-family dwellings surrounding it and agricultural pursuits. There have been other similar rezoning to this, which include a rezoning in 1987 for the Grand Oaks MPUD to have single-family attached townhomes, and also a rezoning in 2006 from AC, similar zoning to MF1 Multiple Family Medium Density District for an 18.5%.
This is the surrounding zoning as I explained. So there's the multifamily to the north, MF1. It's entitled but not developed. Here's the Grand Oaks, which are attached single single-family attached homes. And these are parcels that have single-family residences and agricultural pursuits, these parcels here.
The uh subject property of the future land use is res six, uh potential for six dwelling units per gross acre. And that's in conformance with what the applicant is requesting? And uh the access uh at this point in time is proposed through Hay Road. There is a finding a finding that stated that potentially it could be proposed through Hay Road. There is a finding of fact that basically states that if the axe if if there is functional access, not to include emergency access to Hay Road, then the applicant will be responsible
for improving Hay Road to County Standard. The reason why that finding is in there because there is a potential, a possibility that this parcel may be developed in conjunction with the parcel to the north. and if it's developed with a parts in conjunction with the parcel to the north, The um um Primary access will be through Wesley Chapel Boulevard. And uh the staff recommendation is approval for approval.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Barbara Wilhite, [address removed], three four six five something. Two, I think. Um for the applicant. We'd like to just wait to rebut. We haven't nobody's contacted us regarding uh rezoning request. So we'll just wait and see here and respond. Thank you.
Great, thank you, Barbara. Okay. Uh I think we had a couple of people raise their hands that were concerned about this, had questions. Uh if you want to come forward and state your name and address and what your concern is.
Are you asking for those in opposition?
Those in opposition, yes sir.
Pardon me? Yeah, that's fine. Sure. We don't give numbers so just who's ever an X is fine.
Ready? Yes, sir.
I'm Reginald Miesemer of 4738 Central Avenue, Saint Petersburg, Florida. I'm a traffic engineer. I'm here today at the request of Cynthia and Perry Horner. Uh the horners own the property. Just to the east of Hay Road and actually Hay Road is under their private ownership. There are some others who have an easement to use it. Uh Right now there's seven homes on Hay Road. One day the Horners would like to develop their property with 200 units. Uh
about a year ago, a traffic signal went up at the entrance of Grand Oak Boulevard. Which didn't line up with Hay Road. Now there's no way to provide a left turn lane to enter. Uh Hay Road from County Road 54. And northbound queuing traffic coming out of Hay Road often is blocked by traffic attempting Uh About queuing at the traffic signal. At fifty-four. And Mr. Horner tells me that In the past year there have been two accidents associated
with people who actually live on Hay Road at that intersection simply because Hay Road's so close to The traffic signal. Now the county Has plans to widen County Road 54 to six lanes. And the neighbor proposed as part of this rezoning. And as it was mentioned earlier Two. join this parcel the subject of the hearing today was the parcel to the north. and build a road out to County Row
54, which is much more suitable than trying to run all all the traffic from his 35 new units in and out of Hay Road at that location. Um
Right now that this was what we understand is what's been proposed if the properties are developed together, there'll be a connection. 440 feet to the southwest of Hay Road. Um
Now when the Horners the if when the Horners are able to develop their property They're going to try to redevelop 200 townhomes. and the the amount of traffic that would be generated by this thirty-five unit development on top of the two hundred trips that they want to I mean two hundred units they want to build would be
which property are you talking about right now?
Okay. Mr. Horner, you see where it says hey Road? Mr. Horner and his wife own the property to the right. And to the left. is a property that W will likely be developed and I think sh this lady mentioned earlier will likely be developed in conjunction with the with the property.
Are
we
talking about the property to the south of that?
I know, I know, but it would be developed developed. Well we don't
know whether it's going to be developed or not. We're talking about we can only deal with what we're What the application is talking about.
Yeah. Okay, I appreciate that, but I would like to finish so that I could convey some information to the d to the to the applicant. Okay? And I'm almost done. So uh Jason, go to graphic number three.
Okay. Graphic number three. So the problem one of the problems was with leaving Hayro where it is, we anticipate people that are going southwest on County Road 54. would try and cheat the intersection and actually go the wrong way to get to Hay Road. Uh a very unsafe maneuver which is a good reason why you don't put intersection so close to traffic signals. Next slide please. The other problem would be people trying to leave Hay Road. And they want to go the opposite direction. He rode so close to that intersection they
don't have enough room to make the U-turn. Um next slide, please. And then the other problem is Hay Road is 120 degree connection as opposed to a 90 degree connection. Right turning traffic from County Road 54 has to slow down much more so than they would if they were just making the right turn. So we're here today to let the applicant know that we have a solution we want considered. Next slide please. What we would like to see is that the Ultimate development, when it's all put together and built, it'd be
built across a frontage road system that would actually tie into the traffic signal. uh that is so close to Hay Road. Mr. Horner and his wife have agreed to donate the property for that if that can happen. And although this may not be exactly the right forum for this, I really appreciate you and let me make the presentation.
Sure, no problem. Thank you very much. Good information.
Yes, sir. State your name and address please.
Paul Steele Commissioner, appreciate your time today. I've uh if we can put up that proposed zoning slide again.
I'm a 22-year resident of my property is the bottom right hand section that almost intersects the pink right there. I've been a resident there for the last 22 years. I personally put Hay Road in or redid Hay Road at an expense of about $20,000 about four or five years ago. And I'm raising several young children there. Hay Road is a is a multifamily community with seven
homes. There's seven several kids being raised in the neighborhood. Most of the residents are long-term residents. We moved into that neighborhood with specific express purpose of having our solitude, our privacy uh being able to lead our lives in a certain way, free of heavy traffic, free of potential crime, free of people coming onto our property constantly, being able to have our dogs run free, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. This proposed development is going to
have a serious negative impact on our lifestyle. If the road situation is not changed, it will have an even additional impact on the safety of my family and people coming to visit us on Hay Road. As was mentioned earlier, there's been two very serious accidents that led to one resident actually selling the property and leaving the property. It's already a bad situation with a blind, a blind turn. When you turn right off a hay road today. Traffic's
coming 55, 60, 65 miles an hour. Uh very frequently people are almost rear-ended just making a normal right-hand turn because you can't see the traffic coming. That's the situation now. If this road is not Amended. It's going to be even exaggerated, an exaggerated safety hazard to what we already have in existence. So I'm here in opposition to the entire development. The financial impact, loss of property value,
for example, if the property is not, if the road is not changed. We'd be unable at a future time to actually sell our property at market value due to the fact that it would be a restricted opportunity for any developer due to the situation with the road if it goes in as proposed. My biggest concern is stopping it in general. Uh uh we are you know, like I said, it's a seventh family. Community. That is very unique. There's nothing like it within a 15
mile circumference of where we live. There's nothing that we could buy in the neighborhood that could replace it. And um, you know, it's been there for better part of fifty, sixty years. And I'm just one of the property owners there. Uh Mr. Horner I believe has the same sentiments. And uh we see our lives being turned upside down by this whole development and a devaluation of our property. So I I'm here in complete protest of the entire idea.
Uh let me ask you a couple of questions. The pro the property that you live on, I think I she identified it. How many acres is that?
Spectators.
So there's a square those are square of tens that you both own? The right there, yes sir, that's it. Six sixty by six sixty, is that what it is? Ten acres. Yeah. So um
What other road would you propose that they get out on?
Well th the the plan that Mr. Horner's um presented with the with the traffic engineer here would accommodate future development if we were forced to in fact sell uh to get out. find somewhere more private to live as opposed to being surrounded by Large single family homes that can see our property that are constantly you know, now they're up above us looking down on top of us. You know, we you know We moved there twenty two years ago to avoid that.
Yeah, I mean I I understand what your concern is. What I what I'm I gotta can be concerned or we gotta be concerned about everybody's property rights. There's a person that owns property. Sure. But what I'm asking you is what is his alternative to get to a road?
The alternative would be to take the traffic plan and have the road actually come to the existing light with Mr. Mr. Horner's property donated and then the entrance up front on Hay Road, that would keep that would keep us in a position of maintaining our property values. I understand it, if it would go in as presently proposed, that would eliminate our ability to sell our property at fair market value because it would not it'd be very, very much less desirable
for development. Well.
Plus you're you're taking single family residences and now you're surrounding them with multifamily. I'm sure there's a devalu devaluation of real estate involved with that.
Um what do you? I well first of all I haven't seen a plan. I'm sure the other people up here would like to see what what the road plan is and and I know the Applicant wants to respond or maybe they have their own questions or their own, but Well, every pro every every property owner, including you and and the applicant, have a right to use whatever access they can use to get to to and from their property.
I don't dispute that. What what I do what I do have a problem with is the fact that the road's already unsafe. Uh there's been multiple accidents there. The present plan as proposed will make the road even less safe than it already is. And this gentleman's here is a traffic engineer to to to present that. concern Uh as it applies to Hay Road. And we suggest an amendment with Mr. Mr. Horner actually donating the property. uh in changing
the location. of the exit and entry to Hay Road to accommodate a a safer traffic situation for all residents, including any new family, multifamilies that come in there.
W is there anybody up here that has a question about it? Otherwise I'd like to hear Mr. Horner's proposal.
State exactly the right.
My [address removed]. It's actually a loose floor down at the
Okay. Appreciate your time, gentlemen. Thank you.
Thank you.
I think the gentleman who spoke before was representing Mr. Warner.
Uh I think he was, but I think in my mind what he was talking about wasn't very clear. Maybe they have a map that could show us.
It's this right here. It's it's shown on your screen. They're proposing to reorient the entrance Basically move the entrance instead of coming out on hay road you move the entire entrance over to the signal admitter surface.
I don't see the down I don't see the par uh the property that we're talking about is not even in this picture that's right.
Right this is their access off of County Ad fifty four. This is hay road down here.
Yeah, so here's Horner's property. So they're coming in this way.
They're proposing instead of the coming in off the hay road, they come in
They have an access road.
They have It re- reorient the entrance so that it lines up with the signal, signalized location.
Okay. So they would
have required
another
Horner to donate the property.
What's under review does not have does not own that property where that road would go. So Mr. Horner would have to donate that property for that to occur.
Okay. Mr. Horner, would you like to speak?
Yes, sir. Um Perry Horner, uh [address removed]. We own where it says Horner property, we own twenty-four acres. My wife and I uh we've been we've been there about twenty-two years. Uh the we own the we have a forty-two-foot easement. We actually own the road, it's a private road. So I'm not aware of a not aware of a mechanism with without me donating right away where this property could access thirty five units across the land.
Are you saying Hay Road is a private road, it's not
public access? Yes sir.
Okay.
There's there's seven homes, uh the people the people south of me have eas ingress, egress, easement. And um The forty two foot easement was set up that way because it was it didn't allow for subdivision without right of way donation and that was a way that we could control this very thing. So my understanding I've n nobody said anything to me about this this access being on Hay Road. It's not been mentioned to me. I was under the impression it was gonna be going out onto fifty-four through through the development to the north,
the townhome development, and this is an addition to that. And but clearly uh uh uh Mr. Misemer could speak to the alternative better than I can, but but yes, I've I've met with Mr Misemer and this is what we've come up with where we could essentially donate that land to get Everybody that we're talking about here, the property that's under question today, the proposed development to the north, and the seven parcels that are on Hay Road, which is approximately fifty acres, could all get out to a traffic
signal. So that's essentially what we're what we're trying to get to.
They improved.
All right. Mr. Chairman Mariano. So can I ask a question? Um the property to the north of the subjected property that's being considered, you're showing a road going across that piece of property. Who owns that property?
That's that's owned it's uh I don't know who owns it, it's under it's under proposed development. Now there's been a pre-application meeting, I believe it's meridian development. That's the proposed townhome community. And I believe the parcel that we're here to talk about today will be added to that.
So You're proposing a road across these another entity's property Have they agreed to that?
No, we we've uh I believe we've reached out to them. This is this is simply a proposal to try to rectify what is gonna be a major issue.
Okay.
And to the extent that they're that the property we're talking about today is going to be tied to that property, that's that's the nexus to present that that option.
Okay.
Anything?
What what does the private th you say it's a private road, I'm sure there's some kind of shared agreement. What does the private road agreement say? I mean does it give the individual a property owner right and prohibit him from selling?
Doesn't prevent them from selling it, th I believe it speaks to subdivision.
So are are you saying that the property that we're being reviewed today that's owned by Lawrence Martinez, I believe. Does not have the right to use Hay Road.
They do. I don't I don't believe they have the right to subdivide it and put all that tra I mean it's a I mean it's a private road.
We do everything for it. You can't you can't subdivide it and put thirty-five new people using the easement. Is that do you have a copy of your easement agreement with them that says that? I don't have it with me. I I again I don't think it's an easement issue, I think it's a subdivision issue. I think it's part of the I believe it's part of the L D C as far as I understand.
Well The L D C doesn't prohibit it what the staff report says they'd have to approve K Road to County standards. They'd have to basically
So they'd have to Yeah, so they'd have to take it from me, is what I'm saying. I mean they can't
But I'm asking do you are you saying they don't have the right to pave the road? They don't
it a forty my understanding is a forty two foot right away is not sufficient to to accommodate that level of subdivision. That's my understanding. And it used to be it used to be a minimum of fifty feet. I think it may be a little bit of a few. It's a question
for Stop. Did do we know with the minimum width to pave that road to County Standards?
Everybody keeps turning and looking back that way.
Or maybe the applicant knows. I don't um I
can answer.
Okay.
Barbara?
Hi, Barbara Will Height, [address removed]. I am trying to figure out why we're trying to solve a road issue at a zoning level. Um We don't know if we're going to access Hay Road. We have a finding of fact if we do access Hay Road that we have to deal with substandard road. We have to deal with access management. If we're we're now trying to solve an if, we're trying to to leapfrog frog up to an alignment of an intersection. The rezoning request is compatible
and you've you've heard the neighbors saying We object, but me too. You've got it easy to the west, you've got I L, Res six, MF One. if somebody wants to do come here and say they're gonna do t uh rezoning for two hundred, I don't think you need to solve any road issues. Um Steve Henry is here and can talk to you about road issues, but I don't think we need to solve easements and subdivisions and language easement and all those things.
I agree with you completely because one of the zoning criteria is is there adequate access to the site? It I think the question is There is a condition basically not condition but a statement that you'd have to break approve it to county standards. The question is, is there enough right-of-way there that you that you have the right to use that it could be improved to county standards? I'm just trying to see is the statement in the finding implementable? That's the question. Okay. This gentleman's asserting that you don't
have the right to improve its accounting standards, and I it's it's a question. He's saying there's not enough right-of-way to do it, or I'm not sure if he's alleging you don't have the legal right to do it, or there's insufficient right-of-way to do it.
Well that's not the only access, because there's access to the north through the northern parcel. That's the proposed action.
The access is the Hay Road. They don't I don't do you have legal right to another The
property will be developed together. And uh the access will be d to uh Wesley Chapel Boulevard. Steve can go through and explain that much better than I can. But
Then we would need to add to the memo that that's that's where your access is then because right now the memo just says your access is to hay road and this gentleman's saying you can't improve Hay Road to County Standards.
Hi, uh applicant Tony Tanico, Eastern Meridian Property Group, 36181, East Lake Road, Palm Harbor, Florida, 34685. To answer your question, sir, we do we do have legal access to that property. All and we actually in fact have a property owner who also lives on Hay Road, the other ten acres. Um you can probably verify this. But obviously all these residents that live on Hay Road have legal access to their property. It is through this Uh easement agreement that was mentioned.
That isn't my question, sir.
Okay.
Well, I just wanted to clarify that. Even that gentleman's conceding you have legal access. That's his question is is there enough my it's a technical question, maybe Mr. Henry can answer it. Is there enough right-of-way on Hay Road that if it needs to be improved to county standards, that can happen?
Yeah. And I'll I'll let somebody else answer that. Let me add one more thing, if you don't mind. So we do have the property, this property under contract, the Martinez parcel, that's five acres. We also have 18 acres under contract to the north of him, owned by Ms. Woodrow and Mr. DuPont. And our project access, we've been uh we have an access management analysis. Uh Steve Henry, our traffic engineer, we've had a couple meetings with the county at this point, and our access is not proposed from Hay Road. In fact, we're coming from Wesley Chapel Boulevard. So with that said, I'll let
you
know.
Yes, sir. So you're you're talking about. You're not trying you're not listening to us. Yes.
I am. I I hear you. I just wanted to make that known. So that's the dilemma is the property before us, according to the agenda model says it's accessing Hay Row.
Well it doesn't actually say that. Or if it does.
Actually that's not it says look at finding number two. Access to the properties from Hay Road. So it says that, Barbara.
Why have I been so aggressive here? My goodness.
Because that's not a staying telling me something that's not correct.
Okay, all right. I'm not too aggressive about it. I'm sorry. I I know there's a finding fact that says if about the stand substandard road. So
there's a finding number two that says access to the property from hand.
That's why we're trying to solve the access.
Well that's why it's problematic that we're now talking about some other access point when maybe we could just bring Mr. Henry up here and
That's what I'm trying to do.
Thank you.
Definitely. Steve Henry Linkson Associates, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa 33607. Uh to answer your question, uh you know we could meet the substandard road criteria for widening the road. It would be ten foot lanes, it's forty-two feet wide. We have to put ten foot lanes in there, whether we curb and gutter it, put rural section in there, that would be determined. But the the substandard road criteria is ten foot lanes. So we put twenty feet in 42 feet. So there's sufficient room to be able to put a 20-foot road along in Hay Road
if we had to. But I think it has been indicated, that's not the intent. Here we've actually met with staff on numerous occasions to work out the access that will be there with a joint development for the parcel to the north. Uh and we meet all the spacing criteria in your code for that access. So that's really the intent. But if worst case, if we had to, we could provide a 20-foot road along Hay Road. Okay. Well
thank you for finally answering my question.
All
right,
thank you. Sure. But but if
you
have
a question,
that that that meets the substandard road criteria in the county code, yes.
Okay. And how would you make the access work? 'Cause the other argument we're hearing is that the access off of Wesley Chapel Boulevard wouldn't work the way hay comes into Wesley Chapel Boulevard.
Well, uh, you know, your your the county is widening Wesley Chapel Boulevard. They they have looked at that, they're leaving it where it is and and constructing the road based on where Hay Road is today, intersecting it. So they've looked at it and they believe that it will work where where it is, or they wouldn't be leaving the road where it is. So from that standpoint, i i if the county has looked at it, the county's widening the road and the county's leaving it where it is, then uh yeah, that everything we get. But
to play
devil's advocate though we may not have looked at it with these additional thirty five units, so so the My
question is do you think
it'll still work even with the additional thirty five units?
I you know, i I think that it it has it potentially has some operational issues, but the reality is, you know, the county's looked at it. Uh you know, i is the the design that's up there? Good, sure. But but uh from our standpoint, what we're looking at is If we have functional access to Hay Road, we have to bring it up to County Standards. If we have to bring it up to County Standards, part of that process is doing an access management analysis to look at the access to Wesley Chapel Boulevard.
At that point in time, we would look at it. We haven't looked at it in the detail of that because The idea is we're not going to have that functional access. But we're fine with the condition saying if we do have functional access to Hay Road, we have to look at that intersection. That's already
it's there's already a finding that says you have to do an access.
And and we're perfectly okay with
that. Okay. You've answered my question. Thank you. Thank you.
Okay any any other questions from up here?
The comments?
All right. Barbara, do you have anything else to add?
Okay.
So the only thing I would add is that I I mean Planning Commission can do what they want, but if there's a resident who's interested in how the access would work if they intend to use Hay Road, um they can t contact staff and be asked to be notified when the site plan approval comes in because that's when staff would get the access management analysis and look at how it's going to work. And it may require something like what was proposed, but that won't be determined until site plan approval, if they request
access to Heroes at all.
Yeah, I mean my feeling is is if somebody is offering a solution that is gonna make everybody happy, why wouldn't you wanna look at it? And uh to me this is a something that might be a better better solution.
So
let
me ask you a question along that line.
So when they do get a little further down the road and they're more in design, the county has the power at that point to consider what is being proposed here?
Yeah, because the county could say access for thirty-five units access to Hay Road. An existing hay road won't work. So applicant you need to figure out a way to design this so it will work.
Okay.
Okay.
I'll move for approval. Okay, so we have a motion to approve. Um we have a second.
I'll second.
A motion and a second further discussion. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mr. Neys?