Virtual meeting rules and Planning Commission reappointments update
What the county recorded
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The source document
The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Jul 8, 2021
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The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Jul 8, 2021
The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.
What was said
Machine transcription of 17m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 93% of 74 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
So before you adjourn, I believe s David will speak to you about um the an action that occurred at the board on Tuesday. And then I'll talk to you about an action that occurred on the board.
Two different actions. I'll give you the easy one. So on Tuesday the board basically repealed our hybrid virtual rules. Relate to COVID. So we are no longer operating under any state of emergency rules that allow for virtual participation. That being said, I think the board has gotten used to allowing WebEx as a participation option, unrelated to COVID, because it
is
more convenient, for example, if somebody has something on the consent agenda. they don't want to sit here for four hours through a public hearing or you know they can just monitor it through WebEx or may have a member of the public that has to work that day and they can't attend when we're meeting so they could attend by WebEx or somebody's sick and they don't want to you know be contagious in the boardroom. So So there are multiple reasons why the board felt it was a more convenient option for some citizens to be able to participate by WebEx. So
they did decide to make WebEx a permanent participation option for the board meetings and for the Planning Commission meetings.
Yeah
before you continue. Is that just for the applicant or is that for any number of objectives?
It could be for anybody that wants to participate. So it could be the applicant, or it could be for any citizen that wants to speak to the application. Okay. It also technically applies to the voting members of the Planning Commission, but you all have rules that are a little more restrictive in the sense that under various attorney general opinions, you can only attend by WebEx if there's some extraordinary circumstance. So like you're ill and that prevents you from attending. And what's considered an extraordinary
circumstance is really dependent on what the Planning Commission decides. So if you all think that it's an extraordinary circumstance that warrants somebody a voting member to attend by WebEx, you can allow them. Okay. Um, but the members of the public and the applicants can basically attend A WebEx whenever they want to. There is a rule though that says that if it's a regular agenda item. In other words, not on consent, and it's the applicant, the applicant has to have at least one person physically here who can
make binding commitments for the application. Okay, good. And the reason for that is we had a few items where the entire applicant team was on WebEx and there was nobody physically there and it was a regular item. And the board had questions and there was nobody to pose questions to you because there was a technical issue with web apps. So that's the one exception as well. Applicants can't do it if it's on the regular agenda. They have to have one person, at least one person to physically hear. Usually they do that anyway. If it's on the regular agenda,
they won't. want to attend my website if it's regular. Um but that's in the rules just to be sure. Okay. So there will no that's the only virtual option that will continue. There won't be any more reading of emails into the record. They can still email you like they always have, but those will not be read into the record. The kiosk has been gone now for a while. So the only continued virtual participation option is web. Now, at some point in the future we may get rid of Web WebEx and replace it with something like
Microsoft Teams or something to that effect. But that will still f it will still be an option for the public to participate that way. Okay.
David, I have a question. Yes. Um but that the fact that one of the Planning Commission members or any of the Planning Commission members in an extraordinary circumstance can uh be on through WebEx, I still need to have a physical quorum.
Good point. Yes. So Th the the rules associated with you with with a voting member attending by WebEx, there's three things that need to happen. One is there has to be a physical quorum here. Right. Two, there has to be an extraordinary circumstance such as an illness. And three, the person who's attending by WebEx has to be able to be seen and heard. So you need to have your video on and your audio on. You can't just sit there passing. Right. Um so assuming those three rules are followed,
then a voting member could also attend by web episode.
Yeah. I mean I I think my main reason for asking that question was as we have an application come in and we have a member here, you know, attending in person, the applicant I'm talking about, we uh you could actually log jam the system with people that are coming in on WebEx objective. And it's very difficult to control that.
You you could but you y but these are they only have the same three minutes any member of the public would. So whether they're here by WebEx speaking for three minutes or here in person speaking for three minutes, they're still only getting three minutes.
Yeah, un unless they're all speaking about the same subject and that means they're they're at the microphone before you know what they're gonna speak about.
So you're
twenty-five people come in come up and say, you know, this it's gonna create a traffic issue traffic issue. Right. They speak on that for three minutes. They they're speaking already before we you have a a chance to know what they're gonna speak about. So I mean it it literally you could have people from all over the world calling again dat uh see what I'm saying?
Yeah, I but I can tell you that our historically we haven't seen that. I'm I'm being honest with you. I the the people that are attending my WebEx actually the applicants do it probably even more than the public do and it's because usually when they have something on consent and they don't want to have to drive the Dade City just
I understand
that yeah for something that's on consent. But if it's a regular item and there's citizens opposed to it I think you could have that whether they're in person or web I mean either way you could have a lot of people speaking to the same topic. It's just that one's doing it virtually, one's doing it in person. I mean, if anything I actually think it's more like you're more likely to have avoid situations like you have with that one application where everybody was in the lobby making a lot of noise because if they're that's what if you have a full well,
if you have a full boardroom, now people can also attend by WebEx rather than crowding up the boardroom too. So it does if you have a controversial item in Dade City, it actually reduces the likelihood that you're gonna have too many people in your boardroom. Because some of them could attend by web apps.
Yeah, and also they're muted until such time as they're they have to speak. So
But I will tell you that the board Has had some criticism by some members of the public that all of our meetings occur during the day. And so there are some people that work for a living and they can't attend our meetings, eight planning commission or board meetings at 1:30. So it is an option for somebody who works all day that they could do it from their office if they needed to.
A lot of abuse through WebEx. That's what we've seen some technology issues, but we I haven't seen anybody abuse WebEx the way that you're you're full of. Um I guess if that happened we could amend the rules, but but I don't but
we'll see what happens.
If anything, I see more rowdy people in the boardroom than I do on WebEx. We've had a bigger issue with with controlling people in the boardroom than we have on WebEx, I'll be honest with you. I've never had a bailiff had to we've never had to shut somebody off down on WebEx because they were too vulgar, but we have had that bailiff almost remove people from the boardroom.
That's true.
If somebody wants to be rude, they tend to show up in person.
So that was all I had about the amendment to the rules unless somebody has a question about it.
Anybody have any questions? No.
I don't have a question. I'll just make a comment about it.
It is in the future this is occurring. I'm coming from the old school. I kind of like to have physical presence. I've attended them over the years that I've lived on mother on earth. And I can understand that having somebody physically there, you can read their body language to a certain extent. The community district that I'm on currently has moved to the Zoom system. I fought a tooth and nail, and I have to admit
publicly that I was wrong. Uh it does serve our purpose. As much as I hate to say that, it does serve our purpose. So I I tend to identify what David is saying. Yes, the people who are working cannot attend at one thirty or evening time. They can't attend.
Yeah.
Via Webex, whatever system we have in place. So We do have to bite the bullet and move forward with the technology that's out there today. Yeah. So
All right.
Okay, so now I get to do the not so good news or the more difficult news. So basically on Tuesday at the board meeting in the morning session um there are four Planning Commission members whose terms are up were or are will be up in August. And those members are Mr. Saez, Mr. Anderson, Mr. Gray, and Mr. Poole. So the recommendation was to Um at to reappoint the members for a two-year term because
that's basically the rules of the Planning Commission. They're two-year terms. after the initial term. So basically the what the board did instead is that the board um appoint approve the reappointment but for a total of six months. Um And basically the reason for that is that the board Um several board members, actually, more than one board member, expressed interest in going back to kind of a a a certain way of how the old Planning Commission used to be, where
that each individual board member um appointed a member from their district if there was a member f if there was someone from their district available because I think that the way they want to write the rules also is that if there's some if that if there's not someone in their district that they could appoint someone from outside of their district. So it will still be a planning commission that is a total of seven members. the commissioners including the school board this is the school district members so it's six with the school district so
basically the commissioners what they will do is that they will vote on individual members in their not vote appoint individual members in their district and then there will be an at-large planning commission member. let you know about that. The reason why it's six months out is because and I'm not very familiar with this so David you may want to jump in on this if you know about it. There's um there's gonna be some redistricting going on. So they want to wait until the commission districts are
redistricted um so that they can know where the district lines fall. So
I think you generally stated it accurately, although I wasn't there, but I do have some concerns about that the redistricting is going to be done within six months. Because my understanding is there's an issue with the census data that it's not out yet, and so and the district redistricting has to be based on the census data. So it may not occur within the next six months, it may roll into next year. And so I suspect what's going to happen is you may need to
be going back to the board and saying we need to extend another six months or something to that effect. Okay. Um but generally I think the board was interested in making sure that there was at least one Planning Commission member from each of their districts on the Planning Commission. Now I don't Denise would know better than I would whether we're anywhere close to the
We're not. We actually have three districts that are not represented on the Planning Commission. Commissioner Oakley's district is not represented on the Planning Commission. Commissioner Starkey's district is not represented on the Planning Commission, nor is um Commissioner Mariano's district on the Planning Commission. So basically there are four Planning Commission members from Christina Fitzpatrick's District and Actually Take that back. Three members from com uh Commissioner Fitzpatrick's district and three members from Commissioner Moore's
district on the Planning Commission currently.
Yeah, one thing I'm not sure the board fully understood as it relates to Commissioner Oakley's district though is there is the B O P H policy and Planning Committee which has multiple members that are appointed by Commissioner Oakley. So
Well I don't think Commissioner Oakley was one of the ones who pulled the item.
He arguably has too much representation on that committee. So um But yeah, like you said, he's not the one that was raising the issue. Right. Um I think it was more Commissioner Oakley and Commissioner Yeah.
Commissioner Starkey.
Um so There won't be any change to the total number of Planning Commission members and the school board representative, there was no change in that position at all. But it could affect whether some of you get reappointed whenever this six months is up or years up, whatever that deadline ends up being. But it does require a change to the land development code, so it's not only the redistricting that we need
to do, we also have to change the land development code to change how the members are appointed.
Okay. That's good. Does that mean we lose our retirement benefits?
It better not be on the record somebody will actually believe that.
But uh but Denise is correct that it doesn't necessarily obligate them to appoint somebody from their district. So Is it possible we could change the code and then they could reappoint the same people that are on it now? Yes that is possible.
Yeah. It is possible. Yeah.
Okay.
I heard it was all your idea, Denise. Yeah. I was
the one who set up the scheme. This was not a recommendation by staff or the county attorney's office. Yeah.
Thanks.
More of a political appointment.
Yes, and that was one of the reasons the County Attorney's Office originally recommended it being a group
and Mr. Steinsnyder mentioned that.
A a decision of the entire board so that the entire board could pick the best fit from an expertise perspective, more so versus a they happen to live in the district perspective. Because the Planning Commission does require a certain level of Expertise in real estate planning, development, etc. And there may be certain districts that where there is nobody that lives in the district that has that area of expertise. So I think the County Attorney's Office and the proper staff as well thought that
the appointment should be based on knowledge and expertise rather than where you live. But we don't make the rules, so But you should.
That's right. Because the county commissioners could, when there's an opening, you know, encourage people in their district to apply and
Well th I think what you said w is actually s something that should be emphasized too, is that they can they don't have to r appoint somebody in their district. Right. It's just an option.
Commissioner Starkey made it a point to stress that when she was making when she was making the recommendation to change that.
That's what I'm saying. It is possible that we could just end up exactly where we are. But what will clearly be different is as new vacancies come up, it's we're not now gonna go to the entire board to fill those vacancies except for the one at large position. The other ones will be going to an individual commissioner to fill that position. as terms expire or as vacancies come up.
Okay. Thank you, Denise.
That's what I had.
Thank you and David for holding this team together.