Robert's rules and recognizing members to speak

2:20:46Yeah. And um and I I just have a a little thought uh Mr. Sharky. Thank you so much, Chair. Um And that was on really the

2:21:00Um, how do I say this? Uh Robert's rules on on how to run a meeting. And

2:21:05that's this rule. So let me pass this one out. Yes.

2:21:13This one's shorter.

2:21:15Better.

2:21:16Well I have a way I'd do it. And this first one goes to

2:21:20meeting.

2:21:21It's even smaller.

2:21:22No

2:21:22way. And it's red? No way.

2:21:29I'm doing my best. So before you before Commissioner Starkey explain what I drafted here. So you had an existing rule in your Rules of Procedure, which is Rule nine point four that says that members Shall be recognized by the chair. Um so it's already in your rules, but that rule wasn't clear that it applies, also applies when you're questioning applicants, staff, or witnesses during public hearing. So that's was added. But then the more important change is that it doesn't really address the order in which Which

2:22:00um the chair is supposed to recognize members. So this attempts to do that in a way that's generally consistent with Robert's Rules of Order. Um but I'll let Commissioner Starkey add to that if she wants to.

2:22:13Well that's it, because I Commissioner Starkey. Thank you so much. So we've we've we've had some meetings that I thought were running Might have been running uh a foul of Robert's Rules on how to run a proper meeting. And so um and I'll just I'll just go by the way. I I was running it when I was chair, and I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I have studied Robert's Rules a lot since I've been on a too many Cillian boards. Um and that is that when

2:22:44the chair opens up a topic for discussion It should start. No, I I chose to start Geographically. I started there, then there, then here, then there, and then cheer.

2:22:59And then a lot of times you miss me, Mr. Oakley.

2:23:04Well no, I I started just starting with you.

2:23:07I went

2:23:07I don't want to. But but when I always start that way. Now when you start engaging in more debate than just opening debate. Um you have to look both ways all the time. And I and that's why sometimes I'm like this too. But um um I just think that that this is the proper way to run a meeting. and and be respectful that when your chair It's You sh in my opinion, you really shouldn't go first. Uh Chair should

2:23:38be going last. Um and you need to hear the opinions of everyone needs to be able to have their say um before that happens. So

2:23:50Commissioner Oakley, you gonna give a permission to speak now? Ms.

2:23:54Yeah, can I have permission?

2:23:55Okay. Um

2:23:57We could do that button thing.

2:23:58The fact of it is when I when I'm Chair, I recognize other members other than me. Cause sometimes we all don't have something to say, but one or two might. So you recognize those members. Uh when I was chair of uh Swift Mode way back in two thousand ten There was a certain person on the board, they're a board member, but if you uh recognize them every time they raise a hand, they would be running the meeting and the meeting wouldn't go through like it should. So I use Robert's

2:24:29rules to recognize each person and let them speak prior to that working being able to speak again. Yes. And it it did control the meeting. So but I always recognize if I'm chair, I'll try to recognize the members. Uh before myself. So Yeah. I think that's the right way to do it.

2:24:50So and I agree, that's the way you're supposed to do it. Um whoever has to me, whoever's got the hand up first, that's who you call and you may not see it, and sometimes you may miss somebody. So you've got two sides if you're in the middle, so you may not piss pick it up, but I go whoever's first and I go from there. Yeah. Um and as far as you know, to to bring up members being recognized by the chair. That is the number one violation that that goes on. And then Commissioner Starkey, in all fairness, that you are

2:25:20it. And and It's I mean it just literally we could be in the middle of discussion and bam you're po you you're popping in so it's like to bring this up I'm glad you're recognized. Okay, but we're now board members and we're not supposed to do it that way. We're supposed to go and wait and listen. I

2:25:35get

2:25:36it. And then we go we call. So I mean I I think and I think it would do better and and I tell you we sit on other boards too where it just goes it goes goes rapid fire, just people Oh yeah. Fire in, fire out. Right. But I think here we can go. Now let me ask this because we don't always do this but I try to, um 'cause some sometimes Mike will even jump in when he's when season issue, but do we If a if a staff person wants to speak, um Do we want to do that? Take the break, give them the permission to go forward. If they'll start talking, do I want me to stop them until I get them their attention and recognize them

2:26:06or how do we want to handle that? Because that that is a a thing that we can do differently, but how do you want to handle it as far as like the if staff wants you to jump? Like David Allen did a couple times today, got something added, that was good. David Allen would come up to the right-of-way.

2:26:19Right, okay. So just let them jump in.

2:26:21It's in the flow because what's happened is David's heard something from the dais up here that that has keyed something that he's thinking about. That brought it to his mind. Ah, so let him speak because that fits in the conversation.

2:26:36So I'll ask staff just get the attention of the chair to be able to speak and then go, not just jump into the conversation. David, I had to stop you a little bit because at one point I had two commissioners wanted to speak and you wanted to speak, but I thought that that that needed the commissioners needed to go first. I agree

2:26:51with that.

2:26:52I apologize for that. But

2:26:54you're okay.

2:26:55Um I wanna say that um if you've listened to the planning commissioners. And there um and Chuck's been a awesome chair for many, many years. Oh

2:27:07yeah.

2:27:07But something's got gotten away from them as far as discussion. Um what Akas here have been to the Planning Commission meetings and David Engel. I mean There are It's not a I don't know if it's appropriate to put some boundaries on them, But sometimes some of those members go on for hours and And it to me it's it's it it shouldn't be like that. You're there.

2:27:36I'm there but I'm not the chair, so I I mean the chair ultimately has to has to be the one that reigns that in.

2:27:44I mean Robert's I mean you don't have unlimited hours of speaking time to ram your point through and frankly insult some of the staff because I've seen him doing that. Well

2:27:56I know what you know each and every one of us have good ideas. Each and every one of us have things to say at times. But it may be Ms. Yeager or Ms. Darkey that that'll say something that actually hits hits a little spot in my mind, what I'm thinking, that makes me want to talk where before I might not have wanted to speak at all. So but it it happens.

2:28:21No and then the dialogue can go from commissioner to commissioner. It go like two or three times. There's nothing wrong with that. And then sometimes there's something else will come up and go. But I I I d I I generally speak the way we respect each other going through, other than the jumping in. Is is we I think we do it pretty well. I re I really do. And I and I'm I'm very happy with that. But yeah, we just get make sure we get the attention of the chair. I think that's a better way to run the meeting. It makes it better for the staff, uh the clerk's office to keep keep recording who's who's speaking at what time. So they gotta flip around like who's saying what. That's

2:28:51that that's the point of it. So we gotta document the meeting. Right.

2:28:55So

2:28:56Commissioner Starkey.

2:28:57Um when we're at like our big commission meeting uh with the three commissioners or if you're down at um I think it's the region regional planning council. No, um at the TMA meeting. So so when we want to speak, we have a thing that goes like this, right? At when I ran T BARDA and the TMA meeting. So you can put your name tent up and you get the attention. Or um at at those other meetings you press a red

2:29:27button and a light shows up. But all we have is to go like this. I I I I don't think that's such a great I don't know, is there a better way?

2:29:37It's a small board. I mean again with the flexibility of turning around look looking for one side to the other side. I mean like I said, sometimes you'll miss one to the other. You get my two hands over here and all of a sudden you get nowhere there. So I mean that can happen, but it's a small board. It's not like a ri a giant room where the Roberts was really written for as well. I might bring something that

2:29:54gets attention. I won't tell you what what it's

2:29:56like. Oh y I think you're gonna be fine.

2:30:07Head on a swivel, right, Karen? Head on a swivel. Little horn. Woo! Woo! it.

2:30:15Oh this is great. We have we get to pick on each other without getting mad.

2:30:19So like let Nikki helped me actually earlier today. She put a hand up there was one over there.

2:30:26So amending the rules to add this or not? I guess I'm this is good.

2:30:31Don't you think that's good? I think we should put that in.

2:30:34I don't know actually

2:30:36we have rules but it they're just there's nothing. This This is not just for us, this is for future boards.

2:30:46That

2:30:46is

2:30:46Robert's

2:30:47rules.

2:30:47I know. So what do we need to redo it all?

2:30:53Sorry. Is that you're supposed to recognize the motion maker first. and then go to competing sides of the debate, which I didn't put that in here because I don't we don't always know who the competing sides of the debate is. So I just said motion maker first and then whoever raises their hand next. I thought that would be easier to administer. So it isn't strictly in accordance with Roberts Rules, but it it's a slightly modified version of Robert's Rules. Well

2:31:17and and again, I don't think we need to get into that. I mean, I I think the way we do things, we call in who's pretty much hands up and that the conversations go and sometimes someone fires up something else that you didn't think of and go so I I I mean it's a small board, it's not designed for Robert's rules, but I don't think you need to get that specific to all this here. I think generally speaking We run a meeting that's pretty good and everybody gets their hand in. Everybody gets a dialogue and I gotta say, especially this board, the dialogues that go through are like a phenomenal.

2:31:44Exactly?

2:31:44Commissioner

2:31:44Oakley. I think a good example of what we're talking about, how to run a meeting, is actually happened today because I feel like it's going very well today. Yep. Really do.

2:31:54No. Yeah. Chairman? And every chair is gonna have a different management style. Yeah,

2:32:02who's that next guy?

2:32:05You get a red light. Yeah. Commissioner Starkey, whatever whatever she has. Laser pointers. Star it'd be Star Wars up here, you know.

2:32:15Oh wait a minute.

2:32:16Yeah.

2:32:17This would be the first time that Turkey comes over and sits by me.

2:32:21I I I think I think this board has fantastic dialogue and I think this board Yeah. That's fantastic open dialogue and we get through whatever the issue is at hand fairly smoothly no matter the case. And um it can get a little hectic sometimes, but overall everything runs Smoothly. I think. So. Commissioner Oakley?

2:32:50Well, I'm just I'm just curious why every time um Miss Starkey was a swing person ever s every time a new com I'm a swinger chairman comes. She she comes once again. I it brings me back to ten years ago when one of our first meetings that I had and I was here and Starkey had been here and she came in. Someone had mentioned that she'd come in a little late. a lot of times and so the first time she came in it was about ten minutes after we started or

2:33:21may not have even started yet but I leaned over to her and said welcome to our ten fifteen meeting So but it was all in fun and it's all been good. Good relationships.

2:33:34Right. Mr. Gulfside.

2:33:37Um, I don't really need to amend the rules until whenever you make a decision on the board meeting time, which is December. So if you all wanna just think about if this is not an issue by December and you wouldn't want to amend the rules, we can just evaluate I'm saying if you want to just defer this issue to whenever December comes around and we have that discussion again, I'm fine with that.

2:33:57I think we should table it. Okay.

2:34:01It's up to the board though.

2:34:03I have the county spot. I'm

2:34:05just saying I'd like to not have to amend the rules multiple times. No, I'd

2:34:08be right back.

2:34:14Might be a good time to partner it with the meeting schedule. Anything that deals with board policy and meeting and and structure, any of those items, I think they should come as one package. Do we think that's the right-of-way. Yeah, we can we can certainly I don't necessarily think we need to amend the rule, but if it's the schedule or any other management policies that the board feels it needs to to discuss and if that if that due dates in December Right. County Attorney.

2:34:43Well that well that's what I'm hearing they're gonna bring back to you the meeting time discussion. So my point is if you amend your meeting times I have to amend the rules. Because your meeting times are

2:34:54rules. I'd like to it I'd like to just do any rule changes all at the same time, is my point.

2:35:00So I think David's just asking if you've got any more in mind, let me know. And then in December we'll

2:35:05be able to do that.

2:35:08I'd like to just do it all whenever we do that larger change to the rules of the case.

2:35:19Mr. Sterkman.

2:35:22I wouldn't call that a rule change. That's a clarification of a properly run meeting.

2:35:32That's just Robert True.

2:35:33That's just that's that's the way to run a meeting.

2:35:37Well now that we're gonna be calling to be recognized, I think we're gonna go a lot smoother anyway. We're gonna be good.

2:35:42Do you have to stand up when you wanna be recognized? Or what do you do? I'm

2:35:46standing to stretch.

2:35:50No, we have Commissioner Ye I'm sure the Chair will say that here also.

2:35:54Alright, so we're done with this? Yeah. Alright, let's move on. Commissioner Oakley.

2:35:58I have not.

2:36:00Mr.

2:36:00Witness.

2:36:01I've enjoyed the meeting date. Very good. Mr.

2:36:03Witness.