PDD-23-7623

Every appearance3 of 3 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 63% of 531 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

1. 1Apr 6, 2023
   Planning CommissionPC5Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Zoning Amendment (Consent) - (Continuance) – Hilltop Vistas MPUD - Master Planned Unit Development – Belly Wadding Wadding, LLC - – A Petition for a Rezoning Request from a R-1 Rural Density Residential District to an MPUD Master Planned Unit Development District to Allow for the Development of 117 Single Family Detached Residential Units Homes on Approximately 39.1 Acres Located on the West Side of Happy Hill Road, approximately 700 feet North of County Road 52 39.12 Acres.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 21:36
   ▶ 21:36under a minute

   Denise

   21:36P PC five is P D D twenty three seven six two three it's a zoning amendment, Hilltop Vistas, M P D, Master Plan Unit Development, Belly Wadding, L L C request continuity item to a date uncertain.

   Charles GreyChair

   21:49Okay. Say applicant here. Anyone here to object?

   21:55Here a motion.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   21:56Motion to continue.

   Charles GreyChair

   21:58Second. We have a motion and second further discussion. All in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed like sign.

2. 2Jul 6, 2023
   Planning CommissionPC7Consent agendaNo disposition in the minutes

   Open this item →▶ Play from 2:52:16
   ▶ 2:52:161h 13m

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:52:16So item PC7 is the Helltages Liz MPD now. So it's P23-7623.

   2:52:26The proposal is a rezoning or zoning amendment from uh uh I'm sorry, that's the wrong um

   2:52:35It is from R1 residential to FPD Mastrophania development to allow for the development of 117 single family detached residential units of approximately 31.1 acres. Again, it's located on the west side of Happen Hill Road, approximately 700 feet north of County Road 52.

   2:52:55Subject sites located in the North Market area in Northeast Rule Area One.

   2:53:10your existing zoning district with MPUD, the Lake Javita MPUD to the west and AR agricultural industry to the north. This zoning fund hasn't been updated yet, but there was a recent approval to Com Commercial with Companion C2 to the south and R to residential to the northeast.

   2:53:37And the future land use is currently Res 1 with Res 6 surrounding to the west, north, and east, and ROR to the south. Again, there was a proposed rezoning to the south to calm commercial changing from the home.

   2:53:57This is the applicants proposed to master plan, so as you can see, it's located along Happy Hill Road and County Road 52. There is additional buffering standards that are subject or aligning with the intent of section 604 of the code. Those standards are set forth in the MPD conditions of approval. They take the mail code requirements of section 604 from the buffering standard. Standards and topography and actually goes above the code requirements in some of those areas. Additionally,

   2:54:27this is a letting the existing Lake Jovita MPD, the existing Lake Jovita M2D, was actually established prior to the Northeast Rule adoption, around 2004-2006. So the next slide. we'll go further into the utilities connection and kind of frame what Hyatt just explained.

   2:54:54So this is going to be your visual for the utility connection as previously stated. The Lake Jovita MQD was existing prior to Northeast Roll, the establishment of Northeast Roll. So as you can see, there is an already existing setup for utilities and water services. So the applicant would like to hook up to the utility water services. services and aligned with the proposed comprehensive plan amendment to REST three, which would

   2:55:24then further become consistent with the policies and objectives of the comprehensive plan.

   Jon Moody

   2:55:29Amy, can I stop and ask you a question?

   2:55:34The the line the stub out that you just referred to, is the water and sewer sufficient to accommodate the hundred the hundred and seventeen units that are being proposed? In other words, can they can they can they support their development solely based on that stub out or do they have to connect at fifty two also?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:55:58Um from my understanding the existing capacity that was uh attached actually to the comprehensive plan amendment uh states that the proposed development would be supported and can accommodate and protect two utilities and would not um have any adverse impact to that. So yes, they can uh connect and it would be accommodating the 117 units.

   2:56:24Okay. We've also met periodically um with the utilities department specifically on this and they are also in support of the proposal to align with hooking up to the utilities network.

   Jon Moody

   2:56:35I'm just wondering if did somebody actually require that stub out to specifically to accommodate this development. That's my question.

   2:56:48Okay, apparently the applic apparently the applicant can answer that question, so

   Connected City

   2:56:51but but it's gonna be connected to that existing stuff out. There's not gonna be another connection anywhere else.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:56:57Correct, and that is the intent, even though it is being removed from the Northeast Roll Area Plan or proposing to be removed to hook up to this connection, there will not be any further connections to the north or to the east and therefore aligning with the intent of the Northeast Rural area.

   Jennifer Asaro

   2:57:22Okay, any questions for Amy?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:57:24Uh and one last thing there is a the applicant is also seeking a variation from the land element code. Um so the variation request aligns with what we were just discussing. Um the variation request is uh to to Half of variation from the continuation of connectivity between the north and the west and the east to the I'm sorry, the north and west of the joint properties. As stated to the west, it's

   2:57:54already an existing Lake Jovita. They're a gated community, so there's an opportunity to connect there. And then to the north, the adjacent portcals are within a northeast rural protection area. They're an existing AR zoning district. The Marshall's range in size is between 1.6 to 13 acres. So that area being the next subdivision is approximately half a mile board. Therefore the potential connection to those larger ones to the north

   2:58:24wouldn't be a meaningful or meaningful opportunity for those networks. So maybe I expect better for a PD D it supports the arguments variations of those requests.

   2:58:40And with that, we recommend approval of conditions to Board of County Commissioners.

   Charles GreyChair

   2:58:49All right. Thank you, Amy. Um so anyway we pr we presented all three, P C five, six, and seven. So What we're gonna do is we're gonna accept comment from the uh applicant on all three and from any of the people in the audience and speak on either of the either or all of the three. So we can cover it all at one time. So you

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:59:17wanna begin. All right, Mr. Chairman, Clark Hobby, Hobby, and Hobby PA again have been Warren provided my address earlier. I'm going to I will not use all of my fifteen minutes for all three items, but I do want to reserve the balance of any unused time in case I need it for rebuttal. So just wanted to state that up front. So you all sat through the Pittman and Massey uh changes that went through over the last um couple of months, so you're very much aware of the area. To the west of the property

   2:59:47is the easternmost segment. Of uh Lake Jovita called East Point. The lots uh range, most of them are about 60-foot-wide lots, but it started off originally was going to be a townhouse development, and they came back and retooled it. But it was interesting because that uh utility connection that you just brought up, that was worked on as far back as I think 2005. The uh property we're dealing with today was part of the

   3:00:18original Pittman-Massey property, and the Pittmans and Massey sold this 39 acres for a residential developer uh I think in 2003 or four, and he had worked out the utility interconnection with Lake Jovita. So that's been contemplated uh all this time and and actually before the creation. Of the Northeast Pasco area. So even before that, you know, the adoption of the Northeast Pasco area, I remember asking staff why they were even including this area and

   3:00:48this site and the Pittman Massey ones in Northeast Pasco because at that time they were already overlooking State Road 52 and were next to Lake Joveda and had res 6 everything on the eastern side. The changes since that time have been remarkable and you're aware of of all the things that have occurred. The adoption of VOPH, which starts just on the other side of State Road 52 there. the Clinton extension, which back then was just a thought about where the road might

   3:01:18go, and now we built a four-lane road all the way from 75 to 98. And 98 is being four lanes, so you're gonna have this super uh regional connector all the way basically from I4 to 75 through this area. And then of course while we don't uh maybe all agree that it's been all the way we would like. There's been a tremendous amount of development that's been approved in Dade City in this area. So I'll just give you a couple of examples

   3:01:48of the scale of the development that has already been approved or is planned to occur just within three miles of this site. There are twelve thousand eight hundred and forty nine units. that have already been approved or are planned to be included within the villages that are within three miles of here or what Dade City has already approved and seven planned developments up Happy Hill Road. or within three miles on Saint Joe Road,

   3:02:19And they're also one point four million square feet of commercial that's been approved. Just again, right across 52 there, the Grand Oaks MPUD on the Ayafrade property alone has 900 units and 340,000 square feet of retail approved within it. Um Again. this has been a sea change for this area. So now we're on uh you know, an a major arterial roadway

   3:02:49that's a county roadway, but the Clinton extension the approval of V OPH and believe it or not, within three miles is even the boundary to Mara. So there's just an enormous amount of development that's going to occur in this area. And I was in the middle of doing a study that David had asked for some months ago when we were talking about the Pittman Massey project. And I think my math was showing me that there's going to be 60 to 75,000 people living within three

   3:03:19miles of this site. that build out of V OPH and what the city's already approved. Now, for a country boy from Dade City, when my whole area from Dade City and all of northeast Pasco all the way to seventy five had twelve thousand people uh in nineteen ninety That's a big difference. So the area has changed. This site arguably never even should have been in Northeast Pasco, but it doesn't make any sense now. And that's the reason why when we settled with

   3:03:49the county in 2006 and the new the new comp plan was adopted in early 2007, there are special provisions within the appendix that when you're going to extend utilities to a site or go to res three density, you need to come out of Northeast Pasco. And it says it very clearly and we've met the standards that apply to that and the sections of the appendix.

   3:04:14You all are also aware from the Pittman Massey hearings that across the street in the Res 6 area, if you look up where it says Abbey Drive, that's leading into the Sweetwater apartments that were actually constructed after the comp plan was adopted. They started uh getting their approvals in about 2004 or 5, but there's 194 apartments directly across Happy Hill Road from here. And the county more recently has approved, I believe, two R4 developments

   3:04:45directly across Happy Hill. So the residential pattern for this area, from what I view as the crest of the hill on Happy Hill on down to 52, the pattern has already already been completely established by the county and the area is more heavily in influenced by what the city of Dade City has done as well. Um

   3:05:12The uses we're requesting I think are consistent with the lot sizes that are around us. We are going to do a great job with buffering. While we came out of the northeast Pasco were asking to come out of the northeast Pasco area, we are going to create a landscape buffer that is essentially it's almost twice what's required along the road as it is now. It's gonna have significant uh shade tree plantings, understory plings, and a fence only. there

   3:05:42so we're going to create a very nice visual fencer wall along there with landscaping on the happy hills side of it, so we'll have a beautiful area there. And then for our friends over in East Point, and again you all heard this in the Pittman Massey projects, and it's not turned on that layer now, but the western side of this property has a significant amount of topographical change. I mean it's significant. And we're not going to be building over there because it's just not cost feasible at

   3:06:12all. So our concept plan showed that our house Are ranging from like 230 to 300 feet away from East Point. So there's going to be an extremely significant buffer there. And Jordan Trader's here and can talk to you about that from Clearview Land Design. But we've looked at it for a couple of years now, and there's just no reason that anybody would ever develop in that area because the fall is too great. And that leads me to the the Map that you were seeing about the wetland. There is no

   3:06:43wetland on this site. What you are seeing is there's a ditch that runs back behind the lots in East Point, right along the property boundary, and I believe some of the maps pick that up. The wetland for sure is in the corner of the Pittman Massey site, but they're actually this site is all uplands. So we're also preparing. Providing the interconnection to the Pittman site, it's shown on the MPUD. Again, the reason why we weren't connecting to North Point, I think, is pretty obvious because you're going

   3:07:13right into the back of lots. And then north of us, those are actually ag rural lots there, and those people don't want connections and have told their clients as much. So I think that's the majority of what I have on my end.

   3:07:30Uh we are meeting the PM10 memo requirements from last year. Um and uh I'm happy to answer questions that our neighbors may have as well.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:07:40Okay. Thank you. All right, who's the first on the list? Denise.

   Denise

   3:07:48The first person on the list, I'm not sure if you want to split it out because there's some folks that are signed up for PC five. Do you want the first one signed up for PC five?

   Charles GreyChair

   3:07:57Let's just go whoever was first.

   Denise

   3:07:59Um okay Carol Jankey is the first person on the list.

   Jon Moody

   3:08:05First come, first served, right. And just to reiterate what the chairman said earlier, you can speak on any of the three PC five, PC six or PC seven. Okay,

   Charles GreyChair

   3:08:16and we need your name and address please.

   Carol Jankey

   3:08:18Okay. I'm talking on PC7. My name is Carol Jankey. Uh I live at [address removed] and my property's back up to Roth Lane. I I'm requesting that they only use two homes per acre, half acre lots, to be compatible with Abbey Drive, Lakeview, Timber Run, and Roth Lane, half acre lots. These streets exit onto Happy Hill Road and Roth Lane. I'm also requesting that the proposed driveway cut at

   3:08:48Roth Lane be vacated and move farther south on uh between South on 579 past the first Lakeview Drive. Have to go past the first Lakeview Drive. The parent parcel Pittman Massey should have to allow Eastman to Belly, Walding, LLC for interconnectivity to County Road 52, and the Happy Hill exit should be closed except for emergency. There is a precedent.

   3:09:18The Sweetwater apartments, Sweetwater apartments had two exits, Happy Hill Road and Janky Drive, a paved road which they owned. They were denied access to Janky Drive and State Road 52 enclosed for emergency use only.

   3:09:35This would help protect Roth Land, which is a big problem. We have requested help numerous times for a no through truck sign, the latest being March 9th at 23. No the Smith Road has such a sign. We've asked for speed bumps. We've asked for paving. We were told to get the PVAS approval program. The county and city should repave Roth Lane. because they allowed the city to use Roth Lane for their construction needs. This will happen again with hilltop pistons. On

   3:10:06page seven of the timing and phase For this project. The existing traffic counts were conducted during the peak season based on a 2019 Florida DOT. This needs to be redone. Four years earlier is just outdated. Happy Hill Road has seen an increased traffic and two approved subdivisions, which were Summit View, phase one and two, 406 homes, approved in. Two thousand five. Some.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:10:36Keep going here.

   Carol Jankey

   3:10:37And then north the northwest corner of Happy Hill and Sara Lynn Drive, 75 homes, approved in February eighth, twenty-two. Including Hilltop Vista. This would be an additional five hundred and ninety-eight cars using this sorts short stretch of road. We know there is a project on Saint Joe and Ramsey Road, which will add to the traffic to reach Set County 52. and State Road 52. The county needs to start to control the group. And the intersection at fifty two

   3:11:08and Happy Hill we want to keep the lights and move roundabouts.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:11:13All right. Any questions? Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate you coming today.

   Denise

   3:11:24Richard K. Riley, sorry.

   Jennifer Asaro

   3:11:29Distinguish.

   Richard Riley

   3:11:31Um Richard K. Riley, [address removed], I live in the community of uh Trillbeek, which is about seven miles north of this uh uh site. I'm in the rural protected area. I'm in the three oh one corridor. I'm in the um um my I have AC zoning I have a septic tank, I have a well, I have ten acres. And I'm here to

   3:12:01till against windmills because Mr. Hardley did a very good demonstration of exactly why this is so critical to be removed from the rural area. I'm here to try to convince you that the rural area is sacred and should not be violated. Now, the problem is that this thing is all predicated on the rules that say you have to be. out of the rural area

   3:12:31in order to have the on plumbing and everything with Lake Javita. So if you agree with me, then the entire project, all three of these things have to be thrown out. Uh please do that. Uh

   3:12:48I'm proud that we got the rural area uh in 2007, 2008. That rural area was a uh swap with the V O P H, the villages of Pasiva Hill, and they are down there. They in fact they're on the other side of that road. They touch it. And what I am afraid of is that although this is a wonderful proposal and it's uh uh th got some decent size uh lots and everything, it could be a

   3:13:18lot better, but it's uh decent But this is the nibbling at the bottom and uh the uh county staff did a wonderful job of showing all over the rural area and then this little itty bitty dipped on the bottom uh that is uh going to be taken away. Well I say that is the start of something terrible. Um Th this proposal removes a development In the rural area a it

   3:13:48is a start of elimination of the entire overlay.

   3:13:54If this goes through The next application, just up another um a lot or s or more, will be to re m reduce another five or ten acres out, or then there'll be fifty and twenty acres, and then we'll be up into the uh Evans land on the both sides of their Droby Road as they want to put forty-four houses up there with fifty uh with forty-five foot on uh the front uh uh lots. They're going they're uh Sir Oakley

   3:14:24says they're not gonna be forty foot lots, they're gonna be forty five foot lots.

   3:14:31My windmills are spinning, I'm we're losing air. I wish you would turn this down on the one part that says it has to be taken out of the rural area. But as has been explained, it has to be taken out to make the designs planned. Thank you for listening.

   Jennifer Asaro

   3:14:51Thank you for being here. Thank you very much.

   Denise

   3:14:55Next person is Nancy Hazelwood.

   Nancy Hazelwood

   3:15:02Nancy Hazewood, [address removed]. Um so since I'm talking about two, don't I get double the time?

   3:15:13Anyway.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:15:16Well according to the new math.

   Nancy Hazelwood

   3:15:17According to the new math, okay.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:15:20Two times three is still three. All

   Nancy Hazelwood

   3:15:23right. So I'm going to start with what I'm majorly concerned with, which is um the scenic road and

   3:15:34Cutting off hills. Uh we've had a nice example and I believe I brought it to y'all and showed it to you that they cut a hill down on Ramsey Road. They cut it down about eighteen feet. You can see an oil tanker and you can see sitting down there and there's a bit of land that they left that's higher than that oil tanker. Now I talked to staff and they told me then the conditions of approval, COA, that the applicant did say that they would

   3:16:05make sure there was some nice landscaping, which I hope it's nicer than what's around the solar because that looks horrible. Um and that they wouldn't top off the hill. So that's my main one. Um I'm wondering if what the density is in this. It's tripling the density. It used to be like 39, I think, and now it's like 117. Is it forty acre lots? Is it forty-five? Is it fifty? I

   3:16:35was wondering what that was and if he could address that. Um I'm thinking that the applicant doesn't think he can make enough money on where it is now. And he wants to pull it out in the northeast roll. And Richard is right. This will happen again because nobody They don't think they can make money off the rural area. I think they haven't applied themselves in the right way to develop it. In a different pattern. I myself

   3:17:06are into the equestrian idea and advertise it all over the horse magazines and the equestrian magazines because we've got beautiful land and where else in the United States can you go in the winter to show your horses? But nobody has gotten there yet. Um, I would also like to ask the applicant if he couldn't do dark night sky lighting out there. That might be a nice

   3:17:36little addition. And let's see

   Charles GreyChair

   3:17:42Are you talking about street lights, you mean?

   Nancy Hazelwood

   3:17:44What? Yeah. Street

   Charles GreyChair

   3:17:45lights.

   Nancy Hazelwood

   3:17:46Yeah, dark sky lighting. That's uh another thing that's supposed to be in the Northeast Row area plan. Uh I'm kinda worried about flooding if they do top off this hill or even if the way it is. But I'm assuming that they're gonna cover that. Yeah, I and I've just gone through a lot of the projects in Dade City and the developers promised there would be no flooding and there was anyways. And the citizens have

   3:18:16no recourse because they say, Oh, it's a hundred year incident or this and that but it continues all the time, the flooding. All even in their kitchens apparently. Okay. Uh

   3:18:32I think that's it. Thank you all for listening. Appreciate it guys.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:18:36Thank you very much.

   Denise

   3:18:39Next person is Beverly Hartman and after will be Peggy Byrne and I apologize that I can't read the last name. Liz Kutch. Yes. Okay, thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   3:18:51I mean it's Beverly Harmon H A R M A N and I live at [address removed]. As much as I would like to uh follow this gentleman and say, Yeah, uh we'd we'd love to see that stay rule, it's probably not gonna happen. Um realistically, I've lived on Timber Run for 20 years. Um we've been watching That pasture and thinking that shoe's gonna drop someday and somebody's gonna build on it. And it's happening. So,

   3:19:22what we'd really like, or what I would like, what my husband and I would like, is to see two homes per acre, you know, not any more dense than that. Access and egress on County Road 52, now County Road 52, not on Happy Hill. Because we have to come out on Raw. We live on Timber Run, you come. Out onto Happy Hill from Roth. Roth is right where the crest of the hill comes down. I go down Happy Hill on the wrong side of the road a lot of

   3:19:52times because the people pop up over that hill and you just can't see them until they're over the hill, especially the young guys on the motorcycles from the apartments. You know, they'll pop up over that hill and get a little little airborne. So we need to make sure that they're not coming out of this new development anywhere near Rothbang. Also, if we could block off roughly, I'm not sure how a lot of the other residents would feel about that, but block off that entrance on Happy Hill and just make it exit excuse

   3:20:22me, exit out onto Mm-hmm. um Jankee Drive at 52, the other end of it, and quit making it a a cut through because it's a little shortcut. Um and no roundabout at State Road 52. We've heard that they're gonna take that stoplight out and make it a roundabout eventually. That stoplight has been a blessing down there. It's really, really helped. Um to take it out would be really bad news down there. Now we've also heard just yesterday that

   3:20:53the Saint Leo or Saint Leo Abbey golf course has sold. So that's going to be even more development out there, which is going to mean even more traffic on County Road 52 and the new State Road 52. So the the light is going to be really essential at that intersection. And I still have a minute left, but I'm done. Thank you.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:21:13Thank you very much. Yeah.

   Denise

   3:21:21Next person is Peggy Byrne.

   Peggy Byrne

   3:21:27Peggy Byrne, [address removed]. Um I I have to address first Mr. Hansel's comments earlier referencing PC2. Aren't we having simil similar rezoning questions here? What happened with the Northeast rural area? That suddenly This was important then, but it's not important now. It just happened. It just seemed like it depended on who owned it, and if they had enough

   3:21:58power behind them, you guys passed it along. Everybody that lives at any part of this area feels that way. And this well, having all three of these at one time almost seems outrageous. Where is the study on water? And where is the study on electric? Are you aware that the people at East point regularly have power outages and TICO engineers have not been able to fix it. What are they gonna do when there's all those homes there again? What's gonna happen? More people

   3:22:28with power problems and Tycho saying, We're working on it, we're working on it. These areas, these things need to be addressed. They're serious issues. I'm worried about the impact of the Category One wetlands that are in the front that are over in the Pittman Massey area because that whole area, however small it gets along the back of East Point, it is a depressed area because the topography is so much higher. on the Belly Wadding property and that part of Pittman Massey where it meets East Point. Very

   3:22:59high. The water runoff is extremely high on a r on a heavy rain. Not a hundred year rain, gentlemen. Just a heavy rainy day. There is water all over the place. We haven't talked about the environmental, the gopher turtles. Dozens, not twelve, fifteen, dozens all over the place. There's holes all over the property back there from gopher turtles. Are we just gonna mow them down? Does the EPA know this? I know you can pay I think two hundred and fifty dollars to move one, but has anybody done a study on that?

   3:23:29So we've seen no study on water impact, we've seen no study on the electrical impact, because I don't think you're aware that TICO has a problem because TICO doesn't want to advertise it. So there's a problem there, so now you're aware. And we'd like to find out just overall what the exact um area, the buffer zone they're proposing to East Point. We're saying, oh it's gonna be very nice. Well what is it? Is it a fence? Is it a wall? What's gonna be there? And I I would fully support half inch uh excuse

   3:23:59me, half acre lots less development there because I'm worried only about the water runoff from individual homes. I'm worried about that. I'm also worried about the traffic impact. And I'm really worried about the lighting impact. That property is so much higher that even if they took it down by half, there's still gonna be a tremendous amount of water. I invite you Go walk, go park your cars at East Point and go walk in the back. You will see what I am talking about. This should

   3:24:30none of this should be approved. It should all have a continuance and we would respectfully request that you please take the time to look at the water, find out about the electric figure out what the lighting impact would be on everybody along that area and even out onto Happy Hill in 52. These people are absolutely correct. The ha the traffic issues are going to be tremendous out there and nobody is addressing it. It is a county road reduced from the state road that it was.

   3:25:00It's smaller. It's not anticipating all this traffic that it's going to have. And we just would like somebody to please listen and please do the time and the research so the people there can at least feel that you're listening to them, that this isn't just being mowed down and someone's getting their way and we have no impact. Thank you for your time. Yeah.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:25:20All right. Yeah, I think we have one more, lady?

   3:25:29Save the best of last, huh?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:25:33My name is Liz Cooch. I live at [address removed]. And my um main concern is I don't really think anyone's gonna stop the production of the homes. That's my opinion, of course. And be I've lived there many years, yeah, over forty years in fact. And um The biggest problem I see is when I come out of my driveway and I go round a corner, the stop sign is there of course. Happy Hill is right in

   3:26:03front of me. The only big concern that we I have at least is getting out on that road. Uh it's the the the buildings are gonna be in place, the homes are gonna be in place, which is good. they need to make a passageway for those people to go down there or go up. because it's the road's not big enough at all. and have these people that come over the hill and come up the hill, they don't stop. These people

   3:26:33are not gonna stop for those people that are coming out of those mo homes, I'm telling ya. They do not stop and it's a lot of traffic. If they can come up With the builders or the contractors or the county can come up with an idea of a different way of coming out of those homes. So the traffic would still travel. And maybe go down the hill and find a better exit. That's what you need to think about. It's the homes are gonna be built. I we

   3:27:03all know that. It's gonna be probably a very nice area in fact. However, we're more concerned about Roth Lane, because that lane is very tiny, very tiny. And if these roads are gonna keep coming back and forth and the traffic's gonna keep on going, something someone will g end up getting hurt. An accident is inevitable. So that is my c answer to ask you if you all can come up with a way the contractors

   3:27:34can build a way for them to go down or go up and yet let us traffic keep on going. Thank you.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:27:41Thank you very much.

   3:27:46Is anyone else here to speak in public?

   3:27:53On i any of the three.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:27:55I've been Sworn and my name is Rodney Bailey. I live at [address removed]. Is it possible to show an overview of of the project in question for PC seven?

   3:28:09Which I'm sure you're already familiar with. My home sits directly on the corner of Roth. So I I've got pretty good visual sights right there on Roth and traffic has in the last four years been horrendous. The last two days and I think three accidents in the last month have been serious accidents. And it's happened just coming down Roth Avenue there.

   3:28:39Uh one was a motorcycle just I think four days ago. I personally went over and picked him up. I was sitting out in my front yard and he flew off the road, went down into the Gully and he lived over on Lakeview.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:28:52He's coming down Happy Hill or

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:28:54he was coming down Yeah, he was coming down Happy Hill north to South and I'm not sure exactly. I all I heard was the noise and him flying through the air. Uh my concern is the traffic and when we came to the community meeting with the uh council that represents the uh their client, I spoke to him

   3:29:17pretty lengthy and I never really got Any anything solid from him as far as that's their project. They're not concerned with what's gonna happen with us. Their project is their project, ours is our responsibility as far as to the east of their project. And what I'm concerned with is that access being the primary access coming into Ron. My wife's a paraplegic

   3:29:48safety is a major issue of mine. Major issue. She's been paralyzed for 47 years, retired school teacher, and Roth Avenue. I can't even walk her down the street. The street on Roth at the widest point is 17 feet. Some of the narrow spots are three, thirteen feet. It it's insanity. that cars will not pull over without any hassle for me when I'm telling them to

   3:30:18slow down.

   3:30:21My wife's in a wheelchair. Mm. They they get real reluctant with me. I it it's confrontational at some point in That's not a good thing. No. Um at all. Safety is huge and that's what we're here for is to control this. And it's not about value on two hundred and thirty-five dollars per square foot right you you're gonna purchase on these homes. I'm concerned about the community. And if we're gonna do this in this community Uh

   3:30:53that's all I've heard. from is a plethora of how the growth is gonna go. I mean let's get control of it and make sense out of good projects. Um Safety's huge. That downhill coming I believe it's seven percent grade, if not greater, from the top of Happy Hill coming down, it's huge. The speeds I have uh uh surveillance cameras all around my home. It it's mind-boggling the

   3:31:23speeds. I'm talking well over a hundred miles an hour daily. And that's going north and south up and down Happy Hill. if we make this an intersection, which this project will do at Happy Hill and Raw, is mind boggling to me, why we would put a uh Intersection. on a downhill grade that's steep, when the speeds are already insane there is nobody that stops when

   3:31:53they come up Roth Hill going from the east. going to the west. Nobody stops at that stop sign. Nobody. I've got surveillance films. I'm willing to show 'em to you. It it's mind boggling. I don't want to specifically say who it is, but I I I I watch it a lot and I say I've personally had stuff stolen right from that c that area. But safety's the big thing. There's no speed bumps being put in, the road's not gonna be and it probably can't be widened

   3:32:23too much more. Um but i i if you look at the road it Roth used to be Old 52. Used to be. And they widened it and made fifty two and now this project is gonna make it the second fifty two. And right now I c I can't even push my wife in a wheelchair. It's something I think you guys could look at and their project managers and their attorneys are gonna say they can't move it. That's insanity to

   3:32:54say you can't move it. Lakiew is a much better access. People wouldn't go through and use that access. If you look at the overhead, if you go much wider. where you turn down from if you're coming from the east. A fifty-two, if you're up here on the top, you're coming down. If you see how the road turns right there, It's very easy for people to go straight into Roth Road right there. And from this it looks like it goes straight. It doesn't. That's not designed to

   3:33:24be a freeway right there. That's why the new 52 is in there. It's designed so we have a flow of traffic up in the new area, not Roth. That that's it's as you guys go home tonight, it's right down the road. Drive down there and take that little turn and drop down and look at how that, how unsafe that is if the homeowner's right there. And I'm on the other end. It it's horrible. It's horrible. They probably replaced I would say at least Two

   3:33:54mailboxes, if not more, that I know of. But safety is a huge concern as far as shutting that down, speed bumps immediately. I mean that that's something that could be done very cost effectively. I mean, big speed bumps to slow it down and deter it. I've personally stood down here on the bottom of 52 in Happy Hill and I've watched cars come from uh Caddy Road fifty two to see how many cars actually turn to go up right that are actually coming down fifty two and turning

   3:34:24to go up Happy Hill. I I'd say the percentage is less than one percent, one to two percent. It's mind boggling. If you stood there and watched all the traffic that turns up Happy Hill, nobody does. They take that little shortcut coming up raw. creating a fifty-two. that you all designed to be moved out and now we're gonna put in another project doing the exact same thing and creating an intersection

   3:34:55mind boggling. But I appreciate any input you all can have and I'm sure the council will say they can't do anything. That's why you're here is to help

   Chris Williams

   3:35:05me ask you a quick question. Does Roth has sidewalks

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:35:08Absolutely not. And it's

   Charles GreyChair

   3:35:12I'm sorry, I we're trying to listen to this gentleman.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:35:15It's upsetting to me because yes or no? Does it have something? No, it doesn't. Thank you. Yeah. A ADA is is phenomenal. That would be uh a huge thing. Just the street itself, I can't push my wife without the the caster wheels, the little ones in the front. grabbing her to throw her forward. It it's it's almost impossible just to push somebody on that road.

   Chris Williams

   3:35:39Thank you very much. I appreciate the answer. So I

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:35:41appreciate everything. Thank you very much.

   3:35:46Did

   Charles GreyChair

   3:35:46you have questions or not? Any other questions? I have a question for staff and not for myself. Very good. Thank you very much.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:35:51David, before you do, I I think I might have some good news here. Um we had already agreed to a condition that said we would look at the site access more as we went through you know the development review process. Um but I think my client has agreed that we will put in a right turn lane. We'll agree to that and add that to the conditions. We do need to study the length of it. It wasn't required pursuant to the actual timing and phasing and access management analysis. But I do understand the area.

   3:36:25About a mile and a half from this area. Unfortunately, because of the level of growth in Dade City over time, and some of the redesign of Happy Hill Road that I suspect will occur to accommodate what the city's done, my strong suspicion is that speed will come down over time just based on the amount of traffic that's occurring there. But what they're saying about Roth Lane has been something that's been occurring most of my life and apparently now that there's more uh development in the city north of here. People are cutting through on

   3:36:55their local street, which really shouldn't happen. And I was hoping that maybe the commissioners would install some speed tables or something like that. But we want to make sure we're safe getting in and out. That's I mean, there's no question that our clients feel that's important. I just need to have Steve be able to study it during the uh development review process to d figure out the length of it. Now, having said that, and I've got other stuff I'll respond to, but I think there are a lot of questions about why the alignment is at Roth and and

   3:37:25the the roadway design. So I was gonna ask Steve Henry to come up and maybe um give you his thoughts on on on why that's been done with staff.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:37:34That's a good idea, yeah. 'Cause I think a lot of questions that revolve around access. That's right. Ingress and egress.

   Henry

   3:37:47It's 5023 West Laurel, Tampa 33607. And what I'm putting up here is a graphic. It's an aerial graphic. And what we've done is uh shown the um access for the project um and we've done that over top of an aerial. And and part of it is trying to fit again.

   3:38:06Yeah.

   3:38:12There you go.

   3:38:15Alright. North is to the right here. To the right. To the right. Um but it's

   Connected City

   3:38:21kinda if we can get it or clearer. Route to counterc there we go. Oh. No.

   Henry

   3:38:28The other way. Counterclockwise one eighty. There we go. There you go. Okay. Well that's good enough. But a little blurry, but all right. Um so we've got a um Southbound left turn lane on Happy Hill that goes to 52. And then we're putting in a northbound left turn lane. Although actually that the analysis and the and the volume show it's not warranted, but obviously we're putting a northbound left turn lane in here. That northbound left turn lane needs to be 340 feet long for

   3:38:58the D cell and the Q. And if you look at that, that is right at the back of The existing southbound left turn lane onto 52. So what we're doing is so the the problem is is moving it further south. We either have to shorten up our left turn lane or shorten up the left turn lane onto 52. So from that standpoint, that's kind of why it is kind of established where it is. And and as uh Clark had indicated, we're willing to, in addition to the left turn lane here, to go ahead and build a right turn line southbound right

   3:39:28turn lane for the project access also. Additionally we did look at counts.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:39:34So you're talking about a southbound right turn lane into Roth? No, into the pro into their project. At Raw. Right internally, yeah.

   Henry

   3:39:47And also, uh one of the uh it was uh Mrs. Jenki hit had commented on the counts saying they were 2019. They were actually the counts were done in 2022. Uh what she was referring to is there's a a form that DOT puts out seasonal adjustment factors. That seasonal adjustment factors were developed by DOT in 2019. But the counts that we actually did for this study were in 2022. In addition to that, you know, just to give

   3:40:17you an idea of the volumes, just so you've got an idea coming out of Roth in the PM peak hour.

   3:40:29Just so you've got an idea of the numbers. So this is existing peak season volumes. There's 17 cars making a right, three cars making a left in the PM peak hour, nine cars coming southbound making a left, ten cars northbound making a right. And virtually the same volumes in the A. We did AMN PMP cowards, but searches, so we're not talking about a high volume intersection, but we are designing it to accommodate that's why the the reality is the right turn lane and the left turn lane weren't warranted because of the volumes,

   3:40:59but we're putting those in from that standpoint for this access.

   Chris Williams

   3:41:05Can I ask my question?

   Jon Moody

   3:41:06Yeah, all right. So Steve I guess this is for you and our staff which is I'm not sure left and right turn lanes necessarily reduce speed. Is there something that could be done to the road itself that reduces speed. I mean like things like a chicane is there some Is there something that could be done to control speed? 'Cause I'm not sure like I said, left and right turn lanes just take people

   3:41:37off the through lanes. They're not necessarily like maybe even increased speed because now you freed up the through lanes. So and the corollary to that is would staff even support speed tables on a collector road? I don't know that we would. But I have seen us for example, as like on Northwood Palms Boulevard, speed was a concern when we connected fifty-six to County Line Road and they ended up Jim Whitman came up with something called the Chicane that he put there.

   Henry

   3:42:07Well the Chicane day.

   Jon Moody

   3:42:08Yeah.

   Henry

   3:42:09So we ended up putting in many mini roundabouts is what we ended up putting in on the

   Jon Moody

   3:42:13what I'm asking is is there anything like that that can be put on happy? Hill road that would reduce the speed. That would that would be acceptable on a collector roadway.

   Henry

   3:42:23Yeah, we had the same issue on Curly Road. And we've ended up putting in roundabouts to be able to take that from a fifty five mile per hour road down to a thirty five, forty forty mile per hour road. So, you know, the reality is that those are the type of things that that you can do. You know, can you put in chicanes? Y you can, or roundabouts. Those are those are typically what we put in on more the county or collector roads as opposed to local streets. But

   Jon Moody

   3:42:49a roundabout work? Work at Roth and your project access?

   Henry

   3:42:53No, there's not enough right-way to be able to put one in.

   3:42:59And and there's gonna be a roundabout at it it ultimately gonna be around about at fifty-two.

   Andy

   3:43:05Jordan Trader, Cleavery Land Design 310 West Isle Street, Sweep 150, I have been swarmed. Southbound Happy Hill, because of the visual sight distance, everyone tries to catch the green before it turns. So people speed down Happy Hill. I did it in high school, okay? It because 52 is in super, though what happens is people make it and then it's almost concerning as they go across it. We are not part of the roundabout project, but if people don't feel pressure to make the green and they can approach that at a safe 20 mile. It's a county regional issue.

   3:43:35Again, that roundabout will slow that traffic movement down. But everybody as soon as you crest the hill north of Raw, it's green and you want to catch it and everybody flies down.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:43:45So are you saying you could put a roundabout there off?

   Andy

   3:43:48There it's not our project, but there's a regional county project to potentially. He's

   Jon Moody

   3:43:51talking about the roundabout at fifty two and happy hill.

   Henry

   3:43:57Oh yeah. Yeah, that's already planned already the route study's already been done. That is planned? Yes.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:44:03Yeah, and I think that makes a lot of sense 'cause I think what you said is exactly what I would do is I if I was a teenager.

   Andy

   3:44:09Well I was here where we did the Chicanes and they all put John Gallagher statues in the middle of them. Uh then this this is a different situation.

   Jon Moody

   3:44:16But you uh in your opinion, I guess I'll ask you I made a last out the same question, with the roundabout at fifty two and Happy Hill, when would they start slowing down? I mean I agree with you, people do tend to slow down before they get to a roundabout. How far north when they start slowing down.

   Henry

   3:44:36Well I can I th I think as Jordan had said, I think that part of it is trying to hit that light. So at this point when you know you've got to slow down to twenty twenty five miles per hour, th th they're gonna start slowing down north that there's no reason to go a hundred miles an hour because you're not going to hit that roundabout. at a hundred miles an hour. So you're gonna hit it at twenty-five miles per hour. So you're gonna start slowing down prior to that. Members of it,

   Andy

   3:44:58the roundabout's design with a radius it requires you to be at twenty miles an hour, so you have to start decreasing

   Henry

   3:45:02your speed to come into that approach. And they'll put it and they'll do what what's called a chicane prior to that to even slow 'em down before they even get to that roundabout so they're not hitting that roundabout speed. Where

   Jon Moody

   3:45:14would it where where would they put the chicane?

   Henry

   3:45:17It's actually it's it's to the it's the approach if you actually and I don't know if you've driven um curly road, uh but on the south side of the first roundabout as you go north From fifty four going north, we put a chicane in that roundabout. It's just as before you hit the roundabout, we put a little chicane in there so that slows people down before they get to the actual roundabout itself. But that's again, so there's another thing right before that. So people are going to be slowing down prior to that roundabout because

   3:45:47they know that. Approximate

   Connected City

   3:45:48measurements of fifty-two from Roth is about a thousand feet.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:45:57I'm sorry but the proper procedure is you can only come up once. Okay, sorry about that.

   Jon Moody

   3:46:07So

   3:46:10But you're saying the county's gonna is uh I have not seen the design plans for this. Are you saying the county's already planning to put a chicane? Pardon?

   3:46:21I'm just trying to figure out how does that work with your left turn lane. Is it south of your left turn lane? Yes. Yeah oh yeah, it's south of the left turn line.

   3:46:31And you're saying Shakine wouldn't work at Roth and your entrance?

   Henry

   3:46:38Uh no, I don't think you'd want to put a chicane

   3:46:43at at that location. I'm not sure you can design a chicane at that location. Let me say one more thing too.

   Andy

   3:46:48This location, because you're cresting over the hill, you need visual distance to see it approach your roundabout. Like when you come to fifty two, you'll come to it. And all it is is the island entering, is what Steve's saying. But if we put it at raw, you're up we don't know that we'll be able to get visual sight distance. Someone coming at forty five can hit the brakes and get to twenty. So we want We want this north south free flow movement and we're we've agreed to add, although they're not required, a northbound left D cell and a southbound right D cell to make that a safer intersection.

   Jon Moody

   3:47:17And is there a sufficient right-of-way for the county to put the Shaking the southern Chakine?

   Henry

   3:47:21Again, it it's part of the roundabout.

   Jon Moody

   3:47:33Okay.

   Henry

   3:47:33Uh that that as you go into it. Um but it but it yes, they're there they were there acquiring the right of way and I believe when the last zoning came through they had to provide the right of way sufficient for that roundabout to go in.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:47:49What can you do if anything I can

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:47:50confirm that by the way that was part of the Pittman Massy approval. There's additional right-of-way that was being approved.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:47:57What can you do to c slow traffic north of Roth?

   Connected City

   3:48:03That was something I was gonna mention. So um the gentleman that came up to speaking might be able to answer this question. Are there always stops at uh the two intersections of Timber Ron and Roth? Or is it just Uh are there stop sign we I know there would be a stop sign.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:48:20I'm sorry, we can't we can't talk from the audience. If you want to call him up, uh Eric.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:48:26There's a stop sign right at my home and it's right at Roth.

   Connected City

   3:48:30Right at Happy Hill, correct?

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:48:32Correct.

   Connected City

   3:48:33So but further up Roth, uh there's two intersections of Timber Run.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:48:37Yes. No no stop signs?

   Connected City

   3:48:38No stop signs there.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:48:40Nothing there. And their stop sign is at the very end going up to the uh new well

   Connected City

   3:48:47somewhat new. So that that might be something that that Could be considered as a as an all-way stop for both of those intersections of Timber Run or at least one of them, and that would slow down traffic on Roth, and that would potentially discourage people from cutting through Roth uh from this uh development of Route 52.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:49:06I I I mean the project's not even built yet in the last four years. I don't know these numbers that this gentleman was giving, but I sit out. There every single day, and they're a lot larger than the numbers he said. And like I said, I have surveillance uh daily, both up Happy Hill, going all the way up Happy Hill and Roth. And it it's massive. Trucks, I mean, we have 40,000 pound trucks that are coming by there daily, and that's not to disprise.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:49:35I think he's talking about cars coming out of Roth on the Right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:49:38Down east to west on Roth going up here. Cutting through Roth,

   Connected City

   3:49:41yeah. I'm I'm not a traffic engineer, but uh in my experience with all installing all way stops is a good discouragement of getting a bunch of traffic to cut through.

   3:49:53No, on uh

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:49:53on the east end I don't know over

   3:49:58traffic there, but there's I mean, I I'm not gonna like I said, I'm not gonna say But that

   3:50:03might help with cutting through on Roth.

   3:50:05Okay. No one's stopping at that light. Right,

   Connected City

   3:50:09stop part of this project, but that might be something for the the BCC to consider Steve.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:50:14Steve Steve, I got a one question too. Um is there any concern and uh it looks like kind of what's driving the location of that access point to the project is that broth lane intersection? Yeah. Is there any concern with that not being at the top of the hill? Does anything does it make it better or worse if you move that that access to your project north to where you're at the crest of the hill?

   Henry

   3:50:33Well the the the problem is if you move it north, then the the our northbound traffic turning left into our project is conflicting with the southbound lefts that want to turn on to Roth. So you got a con i an inherent conflict there. That's why we we're having to align them. If you follow what I'm saying. So if we move Yeah, I follow. If we moved our axis,

   3:50:56moved it up here.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   3:50:57sir, you can speak. Yeah, I'm sorry.

   Henry

   3:51:04So if we move it up there, the the issue becomes is our we have a northbound left turn lane into our project that now crosses across Roth Lane. And so the people that go are trying to get into our project are conflicting with the southbound traffic trying to get onto Roth Lane. So that's why we're aligning it. So that that's the problem.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:51:24Well it looks like the crest of the hill, the reason I asked the question, it looks like the crest of the hill's about five hundred and fifty feet north and you said you need a three hundred and fifty foot, forty foot turn lane. Sure. So that's why I

   Henry

   3:51:33was asking. Right. Yeah, you I me that that's the southbound right and we can get get that. Oh you cut on J there's other driveways on the

   Andy

   3:51:39east side that are north that all those driveways were put before existing county spacing criteria. Right.

   3:51:48which what drives Raw could be the primary.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:51:53So what were you saying about a four way stop?

   Connected City

   3:51:56So just just basically that um that can discourage cut-through traffic. So if a if a concern is that people from this project are gonna come straight out to go into uh fifty-two uh eastbound, then that may discourage some of that traffic and may slow down traffic on rough as well um by installing a an all-way stop at Timber Run. So

   Charles GreyChair

   3:52:19they won't see Draw off as a shortcut.

   Connected City

   3:52:21Correct, correct. So that that would encourage them to make a right out of the uh development on the Happy Hill and go down the fifty two and turn there. Yeah. So that may solve some of your concerns with with Ron.

   Jon Moody

   3:52:35Yeah. What does anybody know what the posted speed limit is of Happy Hill? Seventy five, I think.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:52:45Depends if you're

   Connected City

   3:52:46going

   Charles GreyChair

   3:52:46from south to south to

   Connected City

   3:52:47north.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:52:53Probably twenty, it should be.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:52:55Mr. Chairman, I I just want to remind the Planning Commission again, we have the standard condition. We've got to continue to look at this. This is not the finalized location on uh site access, so we expect during the the site plan review process we'll continue to go through this. The only my only word of caution and I I understand what the gentleman's saying, I'm not discounting anything that he's saying, but we need to do this on a scientific basis that takes into account all of the safety factors because that's what I was trying to explain

   3:53:26in the the community meeting because Steve was there and had spoken and he said the safest way for everybody is to align it at Roth because otherwise you have multiple conflicts and the turning movements. I'm not an expert in it so I gotta rely on Steve's

   Charles GreyChair

   3:53:40I can understand that I just think the what I I think all of us want to just make sure that the people that are here today know that we're addressing their or we're trying to address their concerns.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:54:02Because people should this is a very small Local street. I mean, I've been going on my whole life. It's a neighborhood street. It's not to the right-of-way wits that any of our current stuff would be built to. And because people are cutting through, and and honestly, it's because some of the mine activity over the last 10-15 years on Dr. Wyland's property. uh people have been driving it and the roads potholed to death because some of the truck traffic that's gone through there. And

   3:54:32I really would, you know, commend this to the resident commissioner that we help find some way to dissuade through traffic 'cause it's not meant for that. Great idea. Thanks so and I and I'll be happy to, you know, take that up before the the County Commission meeting. But I I just couple things I just want to come back to the bigger picture issues on Northeast Pasco. I would remind my friends who are the advocates for Northeast Pasco of a couple things. The overall boundary in Northeast Pasco

   3:55:02has 61,700 acres. Acres of land. This is a teeny tiny little pinprick, and the board instructed staff to take two other sites out of Northeast Pasco in about 2016 or 17, and it took staff three years to get to it. It has made absolutely no difference of the development of any land around it. This what we're gonna do here, I don't believe we'll have one iota of effect in Trilby and Blanton. This is a completely different area, and the board's smart enough

   3:55:33to see that. And again, the the level of development that we're talking about here, you know, 110, 115 units, it just it's I think I my math was that's about 0.7% of the development that's already been approved by the city and the county within three miles of the area. So it's it's just absolutely negligible. So anyway and and again we're next to the utility, so that's what's driving the whole thing.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:56:01Clark, I have a question. Sorry, unrelated to traffic. It has to do with sat packs. Primary front structure setback. In the table in the conditions of approval it says fifteen feet, but I think on the master plan.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:56:15It says ten feet. We discovered that today and we're gonna fix it. It's fifteen. I can confirm that. So that the master plan's wrong in the table.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:56:25Is there a problem providing twenty-three to the front garage?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:56:30We are going to stick with last year's memo on this one after discussing it with the higher ups. That that was what the agreement was. That's why we're doing additional landscaping and some of the other things.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:56:44Okay. And I assume you wouldn't object if we added the same language about the water main under the sidewalk and five foot of easement.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:56:53I would not object to that at all. No.

   3:56:58Okay. Well thank you all. I appreciate it. I mean it's been a very long and thorough day, but again I do appreciate the neighbors. We're trying to do something that's responsible here, but this site was been, you know, planned for residential development going back over twenty years. So I really don't think we're doing anything irresponsible.

   Jon Moody

   3:57:14So Clark, I do think he should probably have a discussion with Venkat before this goes to the board just to see if there's anything that can be done or what if anything could be done in the control speed on Happy Hill.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:57:27I I'm I'm happy to have Steve get with him. That that's no problem at all. We're happy to do it. Again, uh we do not want to cause a safety thing for anybody coming out of Roth.

   Jon Moody

   3:57:36I just don't know that he's gonna support speed bumps on the on a collector road, but there may be something else he would support to do on Happy Hill.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:57:45Happy to discuss it. I mean And again, I'm as biggest violator. You know, when I was growing up there wasn't a lot of development there, and I can remember driving over a hundred on Happy Hill Road, I'm not gonna lie. That's what I was gonna say. I

   Charles GreyChair

   3:57:55didn't want to tell everybody

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:57:56that. It's changed it's times have changed. Anyway, thank you very much.

   3:58:01Okay,

   3:58:01thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:58:05Downhill. Downhill.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:58:09Only downhill. Bop the clutch.

   3:58:17Okay. Uh here motion.

   Chris Williams

   3:58:23And

   Jon Moody

   3:58:23I'll make the motion to approve.

   Charles GreyChair

   3:58:25Well

   Jon Moody

   3:58:26Dave, you wanna include some things. I think Mr. Moody was suggesting that we I gotta find the right condition.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:58:33It's number twenty nine. Well, I think he's saying the condition number twenty nine is correct. It's the master plan which is incorrect.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:58:43And then the language added.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:58:47That was forty six in four G Range.

   Jon Moody

   3:58:50No, but in this one worth the tree line with.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:58:52Oh, uh that higher up.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:59:07Might but

   3:59:12Welcome to

   3:59:15David, I would think the bottom of twenty nine under the table might be the place to put it. Do you agree,

   Jon Moody

   3:59:22John? We normally have uh there is

   Denise

   3:59:24a section on

   Jon Moody

   3:59:25trees.

   Denise

   3:59:25Yeah, the tree one is at thirty three. It starts at thirty three.

   Jon Moody

   3:59:29Okay, but it doesn't have the language that with about the driveway flares that

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   3:59:34Right. Well that's because those were adopted for town homes. And that's why I asked about the twenty-three foot front setback. I find no difference when it comes to parking and bumpers hanging over sidewalks, whether you live in a town home or whether you live in a house, but if that's what their agreement is, that they're gonna go by the twenty-foot standard, so be it. Yeah.

   4:00:00But I uh don't think it matters whether it's a townhouse or a single family detached product, whether the water main is under the sidewalk and there's a five foot easement versus

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:00:09a

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   4:00:10ten foot easement.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:00:11Mr. Moody, I think condition thirty I'd read that again, I think should or that's probably the proper place to put it. We just need to make sure the language I think it's still right from four G. We just to make sure it's not referencing townhouses or anything like that.

   Jon Moody

   4:00:25Thirty three is the tree condition. It just it But this this project is not pro the town so it didn't have right that language from the

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   4:00:35what I'm suggesting is I don't find any difference between whether the product is a town an attached product or a detached product when it comes to trying to provide room for street trees by allowing water main on

   Jon Moody

   4:00:49the sidewalk. So you want to add basically the two sentence at the two sentences at the bottom. Mm-hmm. The same thing we did with condition forty six of four D to the end of condition thirty three in this product. Right. I have no objection to that. Okay, and then the second part is you want them to modify their master plan to show fifteen foot primary setbacks as opposed to ten.

   Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

   4:01:12And I'd love 'em to make ten foot side setbacks, but I don't think he's gonna be a minimal to that, so I'll leave that out. Okay.

   Jon Moody

   4:01:20So the is the motion for approval with those two changes then?

   Connected City

   4:01:23Yes, sir. Okay. Approving of which item

   Jon Moody

   4:01:27This well I guess okay. I well I that's a good point. Those all relate to PC seven. So we probably need uh just a separate motion on five

   Connected City

   4:01:37The other issue with PC seven is um correction of title 'cause it's rural shouldn't say rural density. From R one rural density should be R one residential district. It's not world density for attention as a.

   Jon Moody

   4:01:51Um

   4:01:54Oh in the title. Okay. All right. Let's do this. Let's take a get a motion on five and six before we tackle sub so five and six are just straightforward motions for approval.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:02:04One motion or individual

   Jon Moody

   4:02:06individually please.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:02:07Motion to approve PC five.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:02:09Second. Further discussion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed like sign. Maybe we have one register one nay?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:02:20Motion to approve PC six.

   4:02:24I'll

   Chris Williams

   4:02:24take a bit.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:02:25Motion and second further discussion of that motion.

   Chris Williams

   4:02:28I was just gonna say if somebody lives in that area, I d I do think we need to be careful about amending the boundary, but in this case I think with all the residential around it, I don't have an issue with res removing that.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:02:43Okay. Motion and a second that we've had discussion. All in favor, second my saying aye. Aye. Aye. Nay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   4:02:50Just to confirm that yet.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:02:54He made it

   Jon Moody

   4:02:55clear. That's right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   4:02:56Uh just to confirm for PC six who seconded?

   4:03:01Uh Mr. Hansel.

   4:03:02Hansel, okay. And then um Moody said nay on PC five. Correct.

   Jon Moody

   4:03:07And six.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   4:03:09And six. Okay.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:03:11Was there anybody else that voted nay on six? Yeah. So

   Jon Moody

   4:03:18So seven, I think Mr. Hansel, I think started motion, but it needs to include those three corrections, which is changing the subject line to remove the word real density.

   Denise

   4:03:32Um can can I Can I know why? Because that is what that district is called. R one is rural density residential district.

   4:03:44I think the person who was presenting it said that it was incorrect as being M P U D. It says it was going from M Pud to M P U D. But R one is called a rural density residential district.

   4:03:58Sorry. Okay. So that was the rezoning was from MPD to M P D. That's why she said I I need to correct it so that it's R one rural density residential district. Oh that is correct.

   Connected City

   4:04:09Gotcha. Okay. So I made the wrong note on my notes, so apologize for that.

   Jon Moody

   4:04:15So yes. So I think the two the two corrections were to change the master plan to show a fifteen foot primary. Primary front yard setback and to amend condition number thirty three to add the last two sentences of condition forty six from the four G Ranch MPD approval. Yes. Did I get that right, everybody? I think you did. Amazing.

   Denise

   4:04:40You got it.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:04:42You get a second chance at the board anyway.

   4:04:47Okay. So we have the motion.

   4:04:51Good job, Peter. I second. Got a second out. Okay. All in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign.

   4:05:01Okay, I'm just curious.

   Chris Williams

   4:05:11your room. Move two.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:05:13Move two.

   Chris Williams

   4:05:13Second.

   Charles GreyChair

   4:05:14All right, all in favor. I just think Chuck might have something else to say. I'll just wait. Seven is a good time. Yeah.

3. 3Sep 5, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP50Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation including the modified Agenda Memo to Finding of Fact number 9, Condition number 1 which was changed to add August 20, 2023 as a submittal, Condition number 10 which was changed to add 315 foot southbound turn lane on Happy Hill Road to align with Roth Lane, Condition number 33 which was changed to allow utility easements under sidewalks, Condition number 4 modified

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:17:58
   ▶ 1:17:5842m

   Chris Demansh

   1:17:58D50. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again for the record, Chris Demont's Long Range Planning Division. Next we have uh Hilltop Vistas M PUD PDD 237623.

   1:18:12This is a zoning amendment request from R1 to MPUD master plan unit development. The purpose is to allow for the development of 117 single-family detached residential units on approximately 39.12 acres on the west side of Happy Hill Road, approximately 700 feet north of County Road 52. Subject property is located in the North Market area and in the Northeast Rural Area. This is an arrow of the subject

   1:18:42property showing its location in proximity to Happy Hill Road and County Road 52.

   1:18:50Current zoning on the site is R1.

   1:18:54Current land use is REV1, although we did hear a public hearing earlier today adopting that to REST III.

   1:19:02This is the uh master plan for the site. Uh you can see the the site's location, its vicinity to the Lake Davida MPUD, uh, as well as the uh red arrows identifying access points. Uh the access point on the south would be for future development uh on that parcel that is located just to the immediate south of the subject property. Um so once those two developments come into permission uh there would be uh cross access between the two. And the context map here,

   1:19:33we're showing the properties location with regard to Lake Joveda and the UD.

   1:19:39The applicant is seeking the following variance. Variation from the land development code, LDC 901.6.11, street design and dedication requirements, design, construction, continuation of existing street pattern, and street access to the adjoining property. The applicant's requesting this variation and planning and development department is amenable to the applicant's request and supports requested release. From the cited section of the Land Development Code since the development to the west, which is the existing Lake Shavita

   1:20:09East Point MPUD master plan unit development, is a gated cul-de-sac neighborhood with no opportunity to connect. To the north are properties in the northeast rural protection area with Res One future land use and AR agricultural residential zoning. The parcels range in size from one 0.6 acres to 13 acres are individually owned and each has a residential unit. Less than a half a mile on the to the north on Happy Hill Road is the established Happy Hills Estates, a rural residential subdivision

   1:20:40with 18 homes. Due to the size of the adjacent lots and the Happy Hills estates development to the north, a meaningful opportunity for a parallel roadway. Happy Hill Road is not viable or appropriate in this location. Staff recommendation is approval with conditions and I'll stand by for any questions along the afternoon.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:21:02Okay, thank you. Any questions for staff? To the applicant.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:21:12Commissioner Oakley Hobby again, I apologize for my slow walk up here. I pulled my calf muscle last week, so I'm moving it in slow mo. I'm not trying to be dramatic. We've talked about this project already at this point in two different agenda items, but I did want to say a few things uh about it just to make sure that the record's clear that our team and our client in this matter uh Take the area seriously, how what we develop in

   1:21:42this area matters to the area, and we're trying to do a quality job. We when we first took the project on, we looked at what was surrounding the site, what the board had been approving in recent years. The biggest uh impact from an as-built environment in the area in recent times has been Lake Jovita and East Point specifically to our west. And if you were looking back at the aerial that staff showed you just a minute ago, maybe staff can toggle back to

   1:22:12that, you see clearly the form of development is very much in line with the suburban form. Go back maybe one more. And then to the east of the on east of Happy Hill we've got the you know legacy um subdivision that's been there my whole life. But then we've got just north of that and immediately it's kind of like it's across Happy Hill and just a little bit to the north is Sweetwater Apartments that St. Leo has used for several

   1:22:42years, has 194 multifamily units. So we feel like this is a reasonable transition from a generalized compatibility analysis. Having said that, you know, we knew there were going to be questions. Well, if you take it out of Northeast Pasco, what are you going to do to the hill? Are you just going to come in there and level the hill? Do you guys not care about that? I knew that was going to be a question, and Denise, Elizabeth, and I are really the primary drafters of what's in the comp plan.

   1:23:13I'm sorry, not the comp plan, but what's in the code for the protection of the typography because we all believe that was very important to do in the code uh adoption process for Northeast Pasco about ten years ago. And so what we did, the MPUD condition has the operative language from the code in condition number, I think it's I can't remember. Yeah, it's number 16. So the specific requirements had we stayed in Northeast Pasco are

   1:23:43gonna apply to this MPUD so that you're not gonna just come in there and level the hill. I mean they're gonna have to build building pads and stuff like that, but the hill's not gonna be cut down, and you can't come in there and just basically try to create excess dirt, sell the dirt, like some people, believe it or not, have tried to do in northeast Pasco. In the last 10 years, and that's what, and Denise is here and she'll remember the conversations, we specifically wanted to prohibit. So we were very cognizant of that.

   1:24:13And then when it comes to the landscape buffer, and this really was one of the reasons why we wanted to come out of Northeast Pasco in general. Uh This obviously is not a rural area anymore on this site and the board's already made that finding when you changed it to Res 3 and the early earlier adoption item. What's in the Northeast Pasco landscape and setback buffers assumes that you're in a very rural area and that you have hundreds and hundreds

   1:24:44of feet of setback. Rather than do that, which basically would have meant the site's completely undevelopable, what we did was we doubled up on the landscaping as far as the amount of trees that are being planted. They're upsized from what the code requires. It requires extra shrub planting. And then there's the six-foot opaque buffer that has to be in there too. So the idea would be that we, you know, we're gonna have some kind of um opaque

   1:25:14buffer with landscaping on the exterior stuff that we've talked about on other sites that is really more appropriate for a suburban. form of development. But the the pattern of development and the inten uh density of the development that's being proposed here today is consistent with what's in the area. It's a responsible way of of doing the development. You know, and uh from our discussions with the home builders and who we think is gonna ultimately be the home builder on the site, we don't even think

   1:25:44we're gonna get we may be as low as ten percent less than the number of units that are being approved here today. And the level of development is really gonna be more in line with what the uh I think it's Called a distinct development rezoned R4 on the other side of Happy Hill a year and a half or so ago. So we feel like we're following all the rules. Um you know, like I said, we voluntarily agreed to meet the topography and exceed the what would have been the code required uh

   1:26:14landscape buffer on Happy Hill. Now, I do have Jordan Schrader here to answer any questions. You have and Steve Henry is here if you have questions. I know in the community meeting we had many months ago now, I want to say it was maybe nine months ago, there were questions about the alignment of the access at Roth Lane. Uh, and some of the neighbors have said that people already cut through Roth Lane to get to Happy Hill Road rather than go down to the intersection. Uh and

   1:26:45I can tell you that it's Steve's testimony and and s um County staff believes as well, but that the because of the hill, the alignment at Roth Lane is the safest way to have access on this site, both b because of the topography, but moreover because how the turn lane movements uh have to be spaced. So I can save that for rebuttal, but that's my general presentation and we're happy to answer any questions you may have.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:27:13Any questions? Commissioner Starkey.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:27:17Um my first question is, and maybe this is a Jordan question. Um I was looking on your site plan where the pond is. Uh in the northeast corner.

   1:27:32And when I look at it on your on this page, that's the heavily wooded area.

   1:27:43And um

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:27:45I don't know where the pond is.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:27:48Yeah, and then I have this page. Do you have this page?

   Andy

   1:27:56Good afternoon, members of the board, Jordan Trader. I have been sworn. Thirty-then West Casil Street Sweep 150, Tampa, Florida, 33609. So Commissioner Starkey's asking about the northwest corner where the conceptual stormwater pond is shown. And there is an existing vegetated area there as well. Yeah,

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:28:13so um is the are you gonna Be able to save those trees between the edge of the pond and the property line?

   Andy

   1:28:23So the topography of the site, there's a crested high point in the middle, and then the property drains really three directions. To the west is actually closed basin length as part of basin special concern. Some of us know it as Doc Smalley's Lake in the back. Um because the topography that's where the pond really has to go and

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:28:38I'm not objecting to you putting the pond there. I understand you gotta put a I'm saying between the edge of the pond, now I I get that this may not be your exact drawing. Between the edge of the pond and the property line, are you able to save the trees that are existing there? I mean and maybe those aren't trees, that's what it looks like it is on here.

   Andy

   1:28:57So if you look at the graphic right here. Sorry, so she so see that little tiny lot line right there? Yeah. That's where the utilities are actually stubbed out. So to develop as it was created. Plan from the property to our west, we will have to get in there and do clearing to connect sewer and water and things. So I don't want to falsely tell the board that we would save the trees on the east side. I will say that see how these lots are larger than normal. East Point was done, there's a ravine system in there, and there's a significant hammock on the west side that was existing on the east side of East Point in there as well. So there's oak trees on the west side

   1:29:27of the property that will stay. But for utility and drainage There will be on this side we have to connect to those utilities. That's where they place them.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:29:33Well I I hope you can save as many as possible. I just hate seeing all these trees flown down.

   Andy

   1:29:38I completely understand.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:29:40Um then um another question. Uh is this there's a lot of talk in here of forty foot lots. Is this a forty foot lot subdivision?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:29:51Smallest lot in the

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:29:53Mm-hmm.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:29:55Uh it's uh being approved that way, Commissioner, but we're under contract with a builder. The smallest lots that we're looking at now are fifty and fifty-five. So it'll be fifty, fifty-five, sixty. That's what we're looking at.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:30:07Are did we not change that forties to forty-five? Or does this not

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:30:12this this one grandfather? Yeah, the the way the memo yes grandfather because the way the memo is. We had our first round of comments like nine months ago.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:30:21Okay. And I noticed Jordan in your drawings it says it calls out a ten foot utility easement. And I just want you to know we've we've got that down to a five foot utilities here. So you don't have to save ten feet. You guys can go at it with five feet.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:30:39Yeah, Commissioner O thanks for bringing that up. We did add a few things in and Denise is going to address those in a minute. Part of some of the changes she's reading in is the addition of the language to allow us to use up five of the ten feet. So that's being added today.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:30:55Alright, and um are you doing any improvements along Happy Hill? Is there a tr multi use trail or sidewalk or anything?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:31:02I don't believe there's a trail plan for that area commission. It's an existing rural section

   Andy

   1:31:08with no pedestrian as it is right now. We're providing all the right-of-way for the future improvements of Happy Hill and then intersection improvements at our front driveway. There's no that's there's no sidewalks today on either side that would lead anywhere.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:31:21Well they would lead to the grocery store next door.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:31:25That's you're not gonna have to go on Happy Hill to get to do that. That's the interconnection. So I think it's right.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:31:35And so the people from Roth Lane, if they wanted to ride a bike to the grocery store, they would come into your neighborhood and then go south through your neighborhood?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:31:46Hypothetically they could. Or some of them will be more aligned with the Pittman Massey site if you see the Lakeview Drive to the south, if you look at the screen. Commissioner Yeager.

   Andy

   1:31:56Like I would like to have all new streets in the project will have five foot sidewalks on both sides. But when they cross rock, they'll be able to utilize the sidewalk.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:32:08Any other questions? If not, we'll wait for for rebuttal.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:32:12Any questions? Okay.

   1:32:17And Denise?

   Denise

   1:32:18Yeah, I'm really sorry. I just need to tag team with my colleague Krista Mansh here. So I just wanna um let the board know that um we did provide to the board members and to the clerk a modified memo and modified conditions of approval. Your agenda memo has on page four an edit to finding effect number nine. That's gonna include everything that I'm gonna read now, which includes that um condition of approval number one was added. um was changed to add August 2023 as a submittal. Condition of approval number 10 was modified to add 315-foot

   1:32:49southbound turn lane on Happy Hill Road to align with Roth Lane. Condition of approval number 33 was modified to allow utility easements under sidewalks, as was just stated by Mr. Hobby. Condition number four modified the master plan residential lot standard chart, front primary structure from 10 feet to 15 feet to match the condition of approval. And these were all changes that were made by the Planning Commission. So that was part of the Planning Commission's recommendation. So we're adding that. Also for the record. We want to make sure

   1:33:19that the clerk's office, and I believe they already have that, has ex-party forms from Commissioner Mariano, Commissioner Weightman, Commissioner Starkey, Commissioner Oakley, Commissioner Bradford, also from the Planning Commission, Chairman Bray, John Moody, and Jane, and Vice Chairman Jamie Girardi. So I think those are all the things that I may have to say for the record. Um thank you. Just wanted to clear the record. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:33:44Thank you. Okay, there's time for public comment. Do you have anyone signed up for public comment?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:33:48Yes, sir. Um Carol Jankey?

   Carol Jankey

   1:33:59My name is Carol Jankey. I live at [address removed] and my property backs up to Roth Lane. I didn't understand exactly. I couldn't hear w all the changes Denise made. But we feel this project is endangering the existing homeowners on Abbey Drive and Roth Lane, Timber Run in Lakeview, approximately 90 residents. That ends that onto Happy Hill Road. The county already knows they have approved summit view four hundred and six Sarah Land

   1:34:2975 Hilltop would be 117. 598 new vehicles, then add sweet water, 1954 apartment units. That's a total of 792 vehicles without local traffic, the current local traffic and future St. Joe and Ramsey Road. The county could insist on a service road. on both parcels, Pittman Massey Commercial and Hilltop Distance, and exit onto County Road fifty two and eliminate the buffer.

   1:35:00Because these people coming down this hill. We'll never see the buffer. They are literally flying down that hill. And they don't put on their brakes until they get past Lakeview. And if you think of it, think of the truckloads of equipment and materials that we'll have to make a left-hand turn into the property at Roth Lane and the speed of the oncoming vehicles coming down Happy Hill Road. You will have to put some kind of a light at Roth and Happy Hill. The

   1:35:31trucks also will use Roth Lane, a one lane, seventeen feet wide, as they did for Summit View. And trucks are always knocking out all the mailboxes on the road now as it stands.

   1:35:45And they would still have to cross over Happy Hill onto oncoming traffic. We asked the Planning Commission to move to vacate the driveway cut at Roth and move it further south past first. past the first Lake View Drive.

   1:36:04The county could also build a frontage road along Happy Hill Road to to take the traffic off a County 52. I think you need to consider things that will protect the people that already live there. And I can tell you I personally saw two incidents that people would have been killed. One was my neighbor trying to cross the road. I'm Ron and the other one was the other day a truck speeding through there at seventy miles an hour and nearly hit a vehicle pulling out of the apartments. Something will happen Sunday. Thank

   1:36:35you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:36:37Next.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:36:39Excuse me. Um Liz Kaj?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:36:48Hi, my name is Liz Coach. I live at [address removed] in Dade City. Uh the problem I have is um I've

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   1:36:55been sworn. We're now in we're now in La Quasi Judicial. You've been sworn?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:36:59Do you confirm

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:36:59that you were sworn?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:37:00Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:37:01Yes, ma'am.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:37:02I do?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:37:02You were you stood up and were you were sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:37:05I don't know what you're saying.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   1:37:06Did you stand up and take the oath?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   1:37:08Yes I did. Yes I

   1:37:09did.

   1:37:09Your sworn. Thank you. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Anyway, uh my house is the fifth house on Abbey Drive. In order for me to get out of my house to go under the street, I have to go to the end of Abbey Drive and Uh Happy Hill Road. Happy Hill Road is very busy. It's a very busy traffic highway. From my understanding, Hilltop Vista is planning one exit, one in and one out. And if they're gonna come out on fifty two, whoever the

   1:37:39people that live here. The problem I see is The people that are coming out Happy Hill or Abbey Drive is gonna be a big problem. because we'll have to wait a while until the traffic goes and yet the other people from Hilltop Vista will be coming up. Perfect example of this is on Hancock Road. I travel Hancock Road because I work with hospice. And there are three subdivisions on that road. I know I go down that road and you can see the people that are

   1:38:09coming out of those subdivisions literally have to wait because no one is stopping. And that's what I think will happen on Happy Hills. Those people coming back and forth on Happy Hilt north and south. they're gonna they're not gonna stop because of the subdivision unless you can possibly build another side road that will help the people that are gonna live on Hilltop to get out on 52. Roth Lane is very busy also and it's very small. Literally When you go down, you

   1:38:40have to go onto the grass. in order for for another vehicle to come by. So Roth Lane is not your ideal road. something has to be done in order to change their way of thinking of getting out of those from the people that are gonna live in those homes to get out onto the road. Maybe another road, maybe a side road. The other on Hancock, one of the subdivisions, what they did was just recently, they enlisted a stoplight.

   1:39:10Literally, one of the subdivisions put a stoplight, and now people are stopping to let the people out of their subdivision. So if you can consider that planning when you do the roads. It would be a big help to the people that live on Abbey Drive. The people that live on Abbey Drive, they've been there for twenty, almost thirty years. Myself, I've been there for over forty years. So I know what the traffic's been like and how much has it increased. So thank you for your attention.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:39:38Thank you. Next.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:39:42Number 50, I believe that's all we have signed up and there is no one no one online.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:39:51Okay. So anyone else would like to address this item?

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:39:59Hello again, Commissioner. My name's Rodney Bailey. Yes I have been soared. sword. Uh just the very first one with the arrows.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:40:12It was with my ex partes I did meet with the gentleman earlier today.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:40:16And again, my issues are pretty much safety as far as the roads. I'd really like the board to look at this ingress and egress in alignment with Roth.

   1:40:30It it it's mind boggling. I live right on the corner. I see it every day. And to say that sciences That's the best place to put it. It's mind-boggling to me. Absolutely mind-boggling. We're going to put an intersection on a road that has no speed limits. There's not one speed limit sign right now on Happy Hill. If you drive up and down Happy Hill, you're going south. There's two going north, one at Summit and right at the intersection. That could be easily

   1:41:01changed. That's fine. The intersection can't be changed. So we're going to put an intersection, not a left and right-hand turn lane, it's going to be an intersection. They're going to be able to traverse left and right, going east and west and north and south on a 13% grade. Insanity. It's not an accident. An accident is an unsafe condition or an unsafe act. Perfect. If there's an intersection put there, we're creating an unsafe

   1:41:31condition for an incident. It will not be an accident when it happens. It needs to be looked at a little bit further, other than just saying it's going to be right here. Sciences say that. I w I want to see that other than verbiage. I haven't seen that. I have Testimony from traffic. from they uh the big cat, I believe. And it's showing five going this way, four going that way.

   1:42:01I sit out there. I see the incidents. My wife is in a wheelchair. I can't even wheel her down Roth Road. It's mind-boggling. I'm getting upset with this. That I am getting confrontational with people traversing back and forth off of that road because it's only 17 feet wide. My mirrors on my truck are nine foot. From mirror to mirror. Get two trucks together, somebody's gotta go off

   1:42:31the roads. Now I'm pushing my w where there's no sidewalks. So my time's about up, which it is.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:42:40You have another

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:42:40minute.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:42:41You have another minute. Um

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:42:42what I request from from you all is to restudy this. Table this project until traffic is under control. Don't say the alignment is there. That's the way it's going to be or we can't do it up here. We can't do it down there. We absolutely could. if you did a little formulation It can be done before somebody gets killed. I request them to put in Speed bumps calm the road on rock. Come it now, before this even happens. Before

   1:43:12the 6,000 homes that are built above come into play. Get it calm down now and wow before somebody gets hurt. My wife.

   1:43:24It's pretty upsetting. Um as far as the left and right turn lane that they agreed upon, that's great. But now it's an intersection. It's not just a left and right turn. It's an intersection. What are you gonna put in there? A traffic light? On a thirteen percent grade? Drive the roads and I'm sure you all have It's crazy. There's no speed limit signs. None. Not one posting. They're doing 85 miles an hour and a post at 45 miles speed

   1:43:54limit. And we're going to put an intersection on a 13% grade. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. If there's any questions

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:44:03We we don't take questions.

   1:44:07Okay. Anyone else in the public like to speak?

   Nancy Hazelwood

   1:44:13Nancy Hayswood, [address removed]. I appreciate Mr. Hobby working with landscaping and topography. Um, I do know that the people that did the solar province does landscaping and right now it looks like a field of weeds. So hopefully he's going to do something nice there. Um in the matter of the sign placement, there were three of us that went out and took a look at

   1:44:44that and I think that the image Mr. Hobby showed was actually on Pittman property and not on the Vista property. Uh if you look at what you have there, maybe you will see the sign that shows the um the traffic light and you'll see that the one you should the same. I'm hoping because I didn't take a real good look at those, that was Lisa's. But

   1:45:14please be aware that we do not think this was advertised correctly and it is their responsibility to keep the public up with where things are. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:45:25Okay.

   1:45:27Anyone else in the audience here to speak to this item?

   Sharon Hannah West

   1:45:35Uh Sharon Hannah West, [address removed]. Yes, I have been duly sworn in. Um The only thing that I keep asking myself is well I mean not asking, this is really this is how you do it. This is how you ensure that Pasco County becomes nothing but a bedroom community for Tampa. Subdivision after subdivision after subdivision. What are we doing to attract real businesses here? We need that kind of growth. We need

   1:46:05that kind of smart growth. This is just adding layer and layer of people Who just Sleep here. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:46:18Is there anyone else in the audience like to address this item? It's your new one on WebEx.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:46:23Uh no sir.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:46:25Yeah, we'll bring it back to the board.

   1:46:28Um Ms. Hobby if you I didn't address what you

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:46:31had. Yeah, this Clark Hubby again. I I I have some ideas and I think some things that are gonna help our neighbors out. We've been told by the county's transportation engineers and our transportation engineer that the alignment with Roth Lane is the safest alignment based on Topo and how far off of the intersection at 52 you have to be. But it's obvious to me that we're causing a lot of consternation with our neighbors at Roth, and so we want the opportunity to further evaluate this. This leading

   1:47:01up to site plan approval. So what I was gonna ask the board is if There are two references in condition A and B where it talks about where our access is going to be. And I would I would like to do on both of those is to simply end A and B after the words to project access. So it would strike the words to align with Roth Lane. That way the county staff and our transportation consultant can further evaluate. this and if there's

   1:47:31a safer, better way of doing it, we're all for it. I mean we have to have an access onto Happy Hill Road, but we want to make sure it's safe. A couple other things that we thought of that I I think y'all would agree are reasonable and good for the neighbors. One is we will agree to a condition that says we will not have any construction access on Roth Lane. That's number one. So I'm fine with the condition being added at that point. But our client also will add a condition saying that our contract our client will contribute

   1:48:02up to five thousand dollars. For the county to install either speed tables or speed bumps on Roth Lane. 'Cause it's a it's a small street. I mean, I've been on it my whole life and I know that. And I think people have been cutting through there a lot. They they always did my whole life, but they've been cutting through there more over the years as the Dade City projects have gotten built further up Happy Hill. That's not where people need to be going, so we're okay. Okay with making that commitment um to the board.

   1:48:32Well uh we would contribute up to five thousand dollars for the county to install either speed tables or speed bumps on Roth Lane between fifty-two and Happy Hill Road. That would be the what we would add to it.

   Nancy Hazelwood

   1:48:44Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:48:45Mr Stark Yeah, it seems to me that um a road like that should get into our program to be improved and widened a little bit.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:48:56The the neighbors would love that. Yeah. Would the proviso. The and this has gone on a long time in this neighborhood because I had friends who lived there growing up. you know, the nicer the quality of that road is then somebody can come flying when they're westbound from Dade City and cut through there and that's why I'm suggesting the speed bumps. I think that would eliminate people doing that. And also I don't think uh the trucks go into Dr. Wyland's dirt pit the last ten years would have gone through there if there had been speed bumps

   1:49:26either because I hate that because they lose dirt right when it hits.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:49:30There's dirt trucks going through that road? There should not be

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:49:33it's yeah, they're supposed to be all done now because I I think the mining section of that is done. Um but there definitely were and that was part of the county's concern when that started and Commissioner Schrader did a good job of making sure that we shut some of that down. But the the other concerns that you hear, I think the board's already made a decision that this is gonna be a suburban form of development. I think we're being very reasonable and conscientious neighbors. You all, you know, I'm not gonna get into who the property owners are, but our believe our clients are

   1:50:04um you know long time uh business owners and residents of our community and they want to be good neighbors in everything that they do and that's why we're voluntarily offering these things to the board. But I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have as well.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:18Clark just you just mentioned a comment that we we talked before about this and I thought I heard the the lots were going to be like sixty foot size

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:50:26I think that it's fifty, fifty five and up is what I'm hearing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:30Okay, 'cause I'm looking at looking at the land use as far as condition twenty nine, it shows forty foot bots. Um

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:50:38But again, Commissioner, that's just following the the way the code is written. Okay. That's not what we're under contract. Mr.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:50:46Chairman Uh Commissioner Yeah. Uh I appreciate the fact that you're gonna share in putting those bumps on that road. I personally have been here my entire life and rode Happy Hill and I I've never cut through there. I have. I admit it. I'm on the record. But I don't even understand why. Because I can go to the corner and make a turn with a red light and Well it works out. But I'd like to uh go a little further and ask Nick to uh with

   1:51:17engineering to uh look at the issue about the signs, make sure we get speed signs right and and If they're make sure they're at the right speed, not not seventy of course, people drive. You can't you can't fix people that are are stupid and drive too fast sometimes, so But have it in the right way and and make sure those signages there on Happy Hill. So but I think uh I think the procs that work out and if we put those speed bumps I think keep

   1:51:47people from turning down through their I wouldn't go across speed bumps. I don't even go across when there are no speed bumps. But uh that's a nice area and we wanna make sure we keep it a nice area, so We agree. With that, uh make a motion to approve.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:52:02Move a motion.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:52:05And I'll fly.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:52:06Second. And uh before we just pull the vote, I'd like to just maybe Nick, if you could come up for a minute.

   1:52:19Nick, as they have you take a look at this, I want you to take a close look at the access. Where's the best spot to put this? Um you know we we look at Grove Street where you were out on site and I just with that hill coming up to a point at the right before the peak was a dangerous spot. I know this is down the hill from the peak, so maybe that line of sight's good. I'm just I'm just thinking myself if it's further up the hill There's a bit more levelness, but I'll leave it to the experts, including you, especially you, to kind of like find out what's the best place

   1:52:50to put it. Sure. And the the roadway being 17 feet wide, it's not in good shape. But up in Orlando there's a roadway that that I took going to a golf course and resort development. And what they did for this one area that seemed to be cut through quite a bit, they put these uh uh common devices continually all the way through. So the speeds never get over twenty, twenty-five miles an hour. I think that type of thing would minimize any cut through traffic because you're not going to want to deal with it. So if you take

   1:53:20a look at what's what's best for that 17 foot wide road, should it be wider? Again, if you make it too wide, you might encourage more cut through. Might save a mailbox or something, but anyway, if you take a close look Talking about Roth, right? Roth Roth.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:53:34Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   1:53:35Yes, sir.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:53:38Uh Commissioner, before you all vote, I just I did want to reiterate staff provided their corrections to the board and then I read in the changes that I'm hoping the motion that Commissioner Oakley was making is including those three changes. And again, that was in conditions 10A and B. to eliminate the words at the end of of both of them that say to align with Roth Lane. That's the first change. Then the second

   1:54:08change would be to prohibit construction access through Roth Lane. And then the final one would be to add that the applicant developer would contribute up to five thousand dollars to the county for the installation of speed tables or speed bumps on Ron

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:54:24Clinton. I'll make that part of my motion. Okay. How about the second?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:54:28Is the second there?

   Joseph Wells

   1:54:29I

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:54:29did I though.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:54:34They needed a second to revised motion, Commissioner

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:54:36Oakley.

   1:54:38Commissioner Weightman.

   1:54:38Thank

   Seth Weightman

   1:54:38you. Mr. Hobby. Yes, sir. In the motion to protect the topo of that hill, that's in the conditions. That's in the condition that's not into in the It's in condition number sixteen.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:54:48But can I ask a question on that topo?

   Seth Weightman

   1:54:50One low Commissioner Weightman? I'm just I'm just Want to ensure again on the record that we're gonna we're gonna protect the the topography of that hill and not not have Ramsey Road happening again that's not have

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:03that the North India Ramsey Road development does not have to comply with the Northeast Pasco language that's in the code for Northeast Pasco. We're complying with what everybody else in Northeast Pasco has to comply.

   Seth Weightman

   1:55:15No, but that's a fine example. What I think this board does not want to see happen. I understand again. So well within our control Trust but verify. I understand. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:55:29I trust and verify, but I want to ask you a question.

   1:55:33That's part of verifying. Yeah, I'm verifying. Okay, what what number was that again?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:37I think it's sixteen.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:55:39Okay, it says here um grading within a slope of 10% or greater. Well so you can go greater than ten percent?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:55:50No, that's we have a map that's in the LDC that shows the areas that have a ten percent or greater grade and that includes a site. So they're already over ten percent. That's there's a map in there that shows you what areas are subject. That's how we determined what these special topo rules were gonna apply to, which properties.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:56:11I just didn't want you to take down the

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:56:13hill

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:56:13that's the

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:56:14that's only that shows you what property is subject to the regulation. That's all that's saying.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:56:22Is that how do you But he can't turn it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   1:56:26Grading within the slope of ten percent or greater within the M P D. So yeah, I I agree with Mr. Hobby's interpretation.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:56:32Yeah, that's that's what the code says.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   1:56:35Shall be limited to a development pad area. So if it if it exceeds ten percent, you can only put a development pad in. Right. That's the whole point.

   Carol Jankey

   1:56:46Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   1:56:47Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:56:47I I I am kind of surprised And that we may not have better plans for the future of Happy Hill? Um that's the discussion for us at another time. Seems like um that road maybe needs more attention. Uh as a future in our future road network.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:57:10It's a it's a coordination issue with the city of Dade City, Commissioner. And I think Commissioner Oakley and Wait and Weightman are very aware of that because I I think there were a lot of people in in East Pasco that weren't quite prepared for the level of development the city had. north of this site on Happy Hill. So we need to we do need to pay attention to it 'cause I don't think that's what the roadway structure was originally set up for to accommodate all that.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:57:38And um that project on the top, I think it I'm looking on my map it says Summit View. I don't know if that's a road or there's some kind of development at the top of that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   1:57:47Summit view is that is the borough.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:57:50That's a burrow pit?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:57:51That's the that's what he's part of the development that we're talking about.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:57:55Okay, did they cut down the top? Did they sell them out? Well

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:57:59it was the the hill came down somewhat but it's main uh there was I don't know how many feet but a significant number of feet down. So you go over a crest of a hill and it was mined for about maybe ten years, ten, fifteen years. It had

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:58:13a mining permit based

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:14Okay, I feel like we need to send a letter to Dade City. We can talk about that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:58:20Appreciate your concern then.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:58:22Right. But just so you know, Mr. Arkey, when I I saw that hill cut down like that, I reached out to the city of Dade City. I had nothing I could really do, but I did let my voice be heard about

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:34But did they change anything? I

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:58:35didn't think it was the right thing.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:58:37Did they change anything?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:58:38Yeah. They'd gone by the regulations and I had our folks checking. for rights on how they cut it down.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:58:48That the uh your staff is very much aware of these issues now and that there's a level of coordination that was lacking with Dade City, and I can assure you that your staff is pushing with the Dade City staff now to better coordinate things on traffic and to make sure that the city is following the interlocal agreement with the county and there some issues about whether that was always being complied with but your staff is working on that.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:59:17And do they do do they pay transportation impact fee like you have to in the county?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:59:22They they have their own transp transportation impact fee.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:59:25They have impact fee. Okay. They also have impact fees for police officers because that is a large population growth for dead cities, those properties out there.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:36Mm-hmm. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously.