PDD-23-7646

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1. 1Jun 8, 2023
   Planning CommissionP15Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   Zoning Amendment (Regular) – - Saddlebrook Resort MPUD Master Planned Unit … to Allow for the Constructed Permitted Uses and Additional Permitted Uses: 105,000 SF Development of 650 Multi-Family Units, 105,000 square feet Commercial/Retail, 55 Dorm Beds, 12,000 SF Clubhouse, 5,000 SF of Restaurant; 145 Platted Townhomes Tennis and 465 Multi-Family Units Golf Academy, and a 27 hole Golf Course on Approximately 550.33 Acres acres.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 47:33
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   Denise

   47:33We're now on P fifteen.

   Connected City

   47:38Right now, which one then? P fifteen. Oh okay.

   Amy Heiler

   47:51Good afternoon, Planning Members. Amy Toll with Planning and Development while we get the PowerPoint brought up.

   48:17So the item that you're about to hear today is Saddlebrook Resort MPD. It's PDD 23-7346. This is the companion to the PD that was previously heard and currently in the process. So the petition for the applicants are requesting a petition for MPUD Master Plan Unit Development and AR Agricultural Residential District to MPUD Master Plan Unit Development to allow for the development of 650 multifamily units, 105,000

   48:48square feet of commercial retail. a tennis and golf academy and a 27-hole golf course on approximately 550.33 acres. Subject sites located in the South Market Area and Urban Service Area.

   49:03Here's your aerial view of the location map.

   49:10And your existing zoning?

   49:16As well as your existing future land use, which is currently reflected as Res 6 residential six dwelling units per gross acre, the applicant is also proposing a companion comprehensive plan amendment to PD plan development on this portion.

   49:31So the applicant is currently requesting two variations from the code. LDC section 901.6 D11, street design and dedication requirements, design construction, continuation of existing street patterns and street access to adjoining property, as well as LDC section 805.6 restrictions on post-development wetlands and upland buffers within residential lots and non-residential parks. Yeah. So the staff analysis on both of these variations, uh so the first

   50:01variation being your street design and dedicational right-of-way, uh, the applicant has requested requested a variation to uh to have no interconnections uh to the east, west, south, and uh north to the property for the following reasons. Uh no interconnections to the west and east of development area two, um, which will be shown uh on the concept plane next. I'll show you where that is located. So development area two because those

   50:31areas are already currently platted. Additionally, no interconnections are proposed along the southern boundary of Saddleburgh Resort because that area is also a platted subdivision within Wiregrass Ranch, and no interconnections are proposed. to the eastern boundary for the same reason those areas are already a coded subdivision. So pursuant to the applicant's request, the PDD staff has reviewed these constraints of the golf course area and those accommodations and recommended

   51:01or has approved or supports, I'm sorry, supports the applicant's work variation request as it meets the intent of the code. And then additionally, 805.6, they are requesting the development areas of the wetlands, open spaces, preservations, for section 805, which establishes those restrictions to ensure that those areas are preserved. The applicant is requesting a variation from Area 1 and Area 2 due to the multifamily

   51:32residential parcels. Basically being under operation and maintenance and purview of the landlord or proprietor. So uh the applicant's request has been reviewed by PDD staff and is supported because it does meet the intent of the code as it seeks to place those operational maintenance oper opp maintenance responsibilities under the single ownership of an entity.

   51:55So as promised, this is your uh or this is the applicant's requested um or proposed master plan. Um I wonder if this works

   52:07Does it work? No? Okay. Um so the area one is going to be your area to the um northwest of the parcel. Area one is primarily going to be your mixed-use much rum area. Uh area two is going to be the purple area to the east. Um that's going to be uh additionally um m uh multifamily component as well. The yellow area you'll see as area three which is going to be your tennis areas and the

   52:37orange is also part of area three which is going to be your condo resort. And then the shaded area within this master plan is area four which is the golf cart or golf course facility. Right now should go into the binding plan. Yep, so this is your binding the proposed binding conceptual plan. As you see the applicant has uh provided this to show in detail what the multifamily uh development is going to look like in both the

   53:08uh area one and area two as well as the Mutrum component a part of area one. And the re what it looks like for generally looks like the relocation of the driving range to the southeast corner of the golf court air golf course area.

   53:26And here's just a visual review or a little zoomed-in area so you can see in a little bit more detail the components of area one being the 75,000 square feet commercial retail, approximately 465 dwelling units for multifamily, and approximately 35 dwelling units for a townhome.

   53:47And then development area two zoomed-in version, which is proposing approximately 25,000 square feet of commercial retail and 120 dwelling units for townhomes.

   54:02And then area three and four as denoted is the uh driving range, proposed driving range, and the upgrade to the tennis area and the resort.

   54:15And your findings and facts are identified in your agenda memo. Um I'm just going to kind of summarize these for the most part of what is being proposed. So currently the applicant developer is actually working with the Office of Economic Development or Economic Growth, I'm sorry, to finalize the Conda Hotel renovation program that they're they're working on uh to kind of meet the needs of the surrounding area and the residents as well. Also, currently the subject site is operating as a golf and tennis resort, which includes golf courses,

   54:45a pro shop, golf driving range, and related facilities. Additionally, there's 75 guest rooms in the main resort as well with swimming facilities, 31 tennis courts, 473 resort units, and you can see those in detail with the different villages. that are established within Saddlebrook. They are proposing new uses for commercial, retail, and additional dorms, upgraded restaurant, towns, homes, and multifamily, as well as upgrading

   55:15the clubhouse and the golf course facilities. As I previously stated, there is currently Res 6 future land use in place, but there is a proposed comprehensive plan amendment to PD that is running alongside this as well that will be heard in July. Bye.

   55:31It's located in the South Market Area and Urban Service Area as well as the Wiregrass Transit Center Overlay. There is an existing trail along State Road 54, which extends from State Road 54, or I'm sorry, State Road 58, 581, and Morris Bridge Road.

   55:51There are Category 1 and 2, 3 wetlands on site, the access. To the site is also going to be from State Road 54, as well as the applicant has agreed to construct a portion of Division Road H, which is identified on the master plan and the binding conceptual plan to provide additional access points to Saddleburg Resort specifically for Area One. And they are uh working on improving the vision road um outside of the project area from Bruce Bowns to State Route 54. And

   56:22area one is also going to be designed with a mixed use uh trip reduction method standards. And lastly, the driving range. Wanted to put this as a finding that it is going to be relocated from what is current what is being proposed as Area One to the southeast corner within the golf course area. And they proposed various upgrades to the Saddlebrook Resort amenities.

   56:51And the rest I think is okay. And then with that we recommend approval with conditions to the Board of County Commissioners. And I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

   GreyChair

   57:01Okay. Anybody have a question for Amy?

   57:07Okay.

   Amy Heiler

   57:08Right. Thank you.

   GreyChair

   57:12And let's see how much time was it on this one?

   Denise

   57:15Ms. Wilhite and her team have thirty minutes then plus rebuttal. Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   57:19Good afternoon. Barbara Wilheite, 6327 Grand Boulevard. Um proud to represent Mass Capital in in this applicate these applications. For the record, I'd like to do a couple things before I forget, because I'll forget at the end. Um you were emailed uh last evening the uh private deed restriction um that Mr Girardi had requested that uh be made available today. So So I wanna wanna make sure that and then we also some support letters that have been received over time. I wanna make sure that gets into the record um

   57:49to receive and file.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   57:51Motion receive and file. Second.

   GreyChair

   57:59Pardon me? Yeah, th it all it it's all for this one application, right?

   Barbara Wilhite

   58:03Yes, I I yes. Correct. So we have to do it one time. So I also put in your dias today the um the binding concept plan so you can see it at a scale or you can read it, as well as the uh our PowerPoint. So again you can see that at a scale you can read it. So those three items for the record, please.

   GreyChair

   58:19Okay. So we have a motion, right? Yes, so move. Second. Second. Further discussion? To receive and file. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Like signed. What's she curious?

   Barbara Wilhite

   58:33Well thank you very much. We're happy to be back here. Uh we were here in the beginning of January when it was a new year of twenty twenty three and it's hard to believe we're almost we're halfway through. We've done a lot of work since we were here in January. We have had a a lot of meetings over time and I wanted to capture that in these slides of how many times we've met with the community and there are multiple meetings starting all the way back from l 2022 coming through 2023.

   59:04Up until it brings us today. Those are all set out in the PowerPoint that you have there. 30 plus meetings with different members of the Saddleburgh community. We did in person, we did virtual, trying to make sure that we do have a lot of residents in Saddleburgh that live other places as well. Seven town hall meetings, 14 meetings with three different groups. Since we had our first hearing before the Board of County Commissioners on the 7th of February, we worked very Very hard on a private deed restriction which Jordan Kornberg will

   59:34be telling you more about. Resort Saddlebrook Resort Condo Association who represents six hundred and fifty seven unit owners took formal action as their association and approved that that restrictive covenant deed restriction um and to support mass proposed plans And then we also worked with the coalition and a group of Fairway Village property owners, Fairway Villages, the the homes within Saddlebrook. And they also have approved that private covenant. Each

   1:00:05public hearing I know there was concern early on about how we noticed and uh so each time we have a public hearing we put up I think six signs, at least six, and we send over a thousand notices. So thousand households get notice every time we come for a public hearing.

   1:00:24We do have a pending comp plan amendment. That comp plan amendment, as I pointed out before, is not needed for our residential, our new residential development, which is the townhomes and the apartments. Currently, the comprehensive plan has a maximum of 1,779 residential units. As you can see there, we're doing 465 plus 155 for our new development. The reason why we did the complaint. amendments really to allow clearly allow for the resort and commercial uses. The Planning Commission recommended

   1:00:55approval of the pla of the comp plan in January. It went to the board and was approved in April, and then it went to DEO, Department of Economic Opportunity, who issued a no comment, no objection letter in May.

   1:01:11One thing that's very unique to this um endeavor is we've agreed to a binding concept plan and you have that passed out um on your dais and these are the rules. It says we're gonna follow um that binding concept plan. Obviously we are not at a construction level detail, so there will can be minor modifications that that staff can can from a construction plan detail that could they can adjust and approve. Um but certainly all the commitments that are on there are are still the same commitments.

   1:01:42And this is the binding concept plan that you have. And I do have my teammates that um the owner's representatives that are gonna present from here. Jordan Hornberg's going to present next, and then Aaron Landry.

   GreyChair

   1:01:55Thank you.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:01:59Thank you all. Jordan Kornberg, I'm a managing director with Mass Capital. So if I can go back just to cover the areas again. Just you know, area one and two we covered. Area three, the difference from last time we were here, just to point it out, is area three had one big area. So we split it out into two separate areas, which we can touch on why and what are in those separate areas. But previously there was just one big area three. Now there's area three A and three B where we've delineated the different

   1:02:29uses that are allowed in each of those areas. And then area four is everything in white, which is the current golf course, which is where we're putting the deed restriction, and we specifically called out here the location of the driving range.

   1:02:44So, starting with the deed restriction, which covers the entirety of the golf course, you know, we we've agreed on this with the Resort Condo Association. We've worked with the coalition as well as another group of residents who have all signed off on the document. This is a 99-year document plus renewal periods, which restricts all that golf course land to be golf as well as ancillary uses, and you all have a copy of it to see what that actually means. Where buildings can go to ensure that all of these, the homeowners within Sallar Burk, and you

   1:03:14know, they are not gonna have a maintenance shed built in their backyard. That is restricted from this document and it can't happen. So, you know, this is golf course use, it's open space use, and if forecloses out, not just us, anybody in the future putting anything behind these people's homes. Um this document is with five separate associations within Saddlebrook. The reason we did it that way is frankly, for it to be amended, all five of them need to come together and agree to amend it. So I'd say

   1:03:44it's virtually impossible for this document to be amended, um, which gives it more security, which frankly is to our benefit as well as the owner of the resort.

   1:03:56Area 3A and 3B. So previously, again, this covered all of one area, which included 27 tennis courts that we use at the resort. And you know, obviously tennis is a rich part of Saddamport's history and very important for our go forward business plan. So what we've done in order to address questions that we received around tennis is split out 3A. 3B. So area 3A, which covers those 27 tennis courts, the only use that's allowed

   1:04:27there is tennis courts and surface parking, which is what the current uses are. And we've made a commitment that of those 27 tennis courts that are there today, 22 of them will remain. So we have flexibility to remove five of the current tennis courts to expand surface parking. And it covers other racket sport uses too, given the growth of paddle, pickle, et cetera. But the reality is tennis is obviously, you know, a big part of what Saddlebrook is in our plan. Area 3B is where we plan for a clubhouse. So

   1:04:57the the use and development that is not what was previously in all of area three is restricted to 3B. Today that is what was the steakhouse, what is the golf antennas, check-in, a fitness center, along with uh cart barn and resort maintenance. So it'll be all of those uses with enhancing. the clubhouse uh and the ability to do so with uh with what we're going for here.

   1:05:26The other big change that we've made is the question has always been raised to us about the linkage between the resort and the new developments. And so as part of our approval we've added in phasing conditions that give the protection that ultimately if there is development, there will be investment in the resort, which is a commitment that we have always made. So those three conditions, you know, which are shown here, the first one is before we can do any development in Area One,

   1:05:57we need to have moved and put in service the new driving range, which then obviously binds us to the golf plan because that changes the routing plan on the golf course. The second condition is that before we deliver our first unit in air either area one or area two, we need to have finished the renovation of eighteen holes of the golf course and gotten permits for and started renovation for the key areas of the resort, which include the conda hotel units that we own. the

   1:06:28lobby, food and beverage restaurant areas, ground level meeting space in the resort. And then the last condition says before we deliver the 351st unit in development area one, we need to have completed essentially all of those areas that we were starting the renovation of at the resort. So we've said we've ensured that ultimately for development to happen we need to make a significant commitment to the improvement of the resort to ensure that ultimately all of Saddlebrook will be improved

   1:06:58and see the investment that it we all know it needs.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:07:02Mr. Jericho can I ask you one question? Can you go back to that prior slide? So could you explain the rationale for three hundred and fifty one? What was that? Is there anything magical about that number?

   1:07:16I just d I mean, it just you have a total of four hundred and sixty five units in that But four I guess it's four hundred and ninety five when you cleaned the town home. So how did you come up with three fifty one?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:07:31I wouldn't say there was anything magical. I think the key for us was making sure that ultimately, you know, there's substantial commitment um in terms of we have there's enough left on the back end uh and at the end of the day it doesn't ultimately like restrict to and hold up the plan. So there was no I wouldn't say there was magic to the three hundred and fifty-one number. We felt like it was a a fair number that ensured you know No, the plans can continue all at the same time. We can't just get so far.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:08:05Do some of the rehab work in the resort or it's not based it's not a funding issue?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:08:10No.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:08:11Okay. Sorry, you've answered my question.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:08:21And then lastly, you know, this is a draft of our golf routing plan. Um, you know, we brought Rhys Jones on board to uh plan our renovation of the golf course. Uh you know, Rhys Jones is a world-class golf architect, uh the son of Robert Trent Jones. Bryce Swanson, who's on the line, works for Reese Jones. Um and we've charged Reese to come up with a 27-hole routing plan. Where you have three nines that can each stand on their own, so you have three separate eighteens that all go together, that all start and

   1:08:51finish at the clubhouse, and that every home within Saddlebrook that is currently on a golf course is still on a golf course and maintains their view. And so again, this is a draft that's in progress, but as you can see, all of the homes that are on golf course today maintain on a golf course, and it's come up with a Great twenty-seven hole design where each nine starts and finishes at the clubhouse.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:09:16I got one question real quick. So I I guess theoretically is there a chance that At some point in time there will only be nine of the thirty six holes open. So because you got the driving range and you got eighteen holes you got to renovate all at the same time.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:09:32So we've actually we had a plan where we had and it's been back and forth with members and residents. We held a members town hall where I think 150 people were present and what we were working towards was a plan to always have the driving range in 18 holes in operation at any given time. So we renovate nine at a time. What we heard after that town hall meeting was frankly that members were excited about these improvements and wanted to see it accelerated. So the request was to look at can

   1:10:03we accelerate the plans? And rather than always having 18 open, they'd rather have the new renovated golf course sooner. And so that at some point, yes, you potentially only have nine in operation. We still haven't finalized the path that we're going. Frankly, we were going down the path. path of the keeping eighteen open at all times for the benefit of residents, but what we've been hearing from them is they actually just want the improvements to happen quicker and would rather have only nine holes for a period of time and have these renovations completed sooner.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:10:32Okay, so so I just wanna make sure that the residents were clear on that 'cause I mean I I I would imagine I would have thought that the residents would wanna at least have eighteen holes that they could enjoy. So that would mean that nine holes are being renovated and and the driving range was but We that's fine. I you answer my question.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:10:47And we're still exploring both plans. We were we were equally surprised, I would say, um in terms of that, but I think it spoke to the excitement uh of seeing these improvements.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:10:58Okay.

   Aaron Landry

   1:11:04Good afternoon commissioners. I'm Aaron Landry with Mass Capital, managing director with offices at 2601 South Bay Shore Drive, Coconut Grove, Florida, and I have been sworn. So one of the benefits uh that we believe our plan has is let me see if we can get this to work here.

   1:11:23Now we're

   1:11:27Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:11:30Yeah, we can now better.

   Aaron Landry

   1:11:33Thank you.

   1:11:36Thanks. Um sorry about that. Um is the enhanced connectivity. For better or for worse, Saddlebrook was designed and built with a single entrance in, uh as I'm sure many of you know having visited the property. Uh and as part of our plan, one of the things we want to do is propose a secondary gated entrance uh into Saddlebrook that would be certainly to the benefit of the existing residents within the community. Um also Well everyone who may or may not know, I mean, but uh given it's a single entrance, a hundred percent of the resort deliveries

   1:12:06have to come in and out of that main entranceway on Saddlebrook Way, which uh unfortunately adds to congestion onto a single entrance. And so, as part of our proposed plans, um, we we're also have the intent to have all of the service deliveries diverted off of the main entrance. entrance and use this secondary entrance road again which would still remain as a gated a gated entrance no different than the way the community exists today. And then lastly in terms of the multi-use path we are

   1:12:36providing for a connection for Saddlebrook residents as well as resort guests in order to get into the proposed area one. Um Saddlebrook today has you know virtually no sidewalks along the streets. Um anything we can do to try to improve that situation where you don't have people biking, walking, running, etc. intermingled with vehicles we think is a is a real benefit.

   1:13:00In terms of the larger scale sort of access management improvements, which certainly relate to transportation, there's a few we'd like to highlight. The first, and I I have a couple slides here beyond this that show it a little bit better, but nonetheless, State Row 54 and Saddlebrook Way, which is the main entrance into the resort, we're trying to are planning to add additional lanes, which would help with capacity. Hopefully eliminate some of the concerns around queuing, given that that is an intersection and there's obviously a

   1:13:30lot of people try to make left bound or a westbound turn onto State Road 54. Um also a a new connection of course um at our western boundary at State Road 54 and what would be the Colony Vision Road H. And then lastly which is an extension of the Vision Road but it and I'll be showing it in the following slides is a a further extension um to connect over to uh Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard.

   1:13:56So this is uh an image here of South Brook Way at the main entry, and as you can see, today there's a single left-hand turn lane. uh to make that left uh left turn or to go westbound on stay road 54 at the intersection. So we're proposing to add a second left hand turn lane and convert uh or create what would be a new right turn lane to go eastbound.

   1:14:19And then the vision road itself, this image here kind of shows where it connects along our western boundary. The portion of yellow that you're seeing along the western edge of our property, I mean that's approximately five acres of land that would be dedicated as part of being able to create this larger transportation improvement. And then you're seeing kind of, I guess what I would call is sort of the tail once it tapers off of our property to the west to connect over to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard. We think

   1:14:49this is important because it certainly gives people opportunity to have movements and be able to avoid the Saddlebrook Way main entrance altogether, frankly, to be able to go west andor to get to a different intersection by uh connecting over to the wiregrass ranch boulevard. um inter intersection. And just to be clear, it would be uh the two easternmost lanes as it once you leave our property in terms of that connection between our western boundary and the Wiregrass

   1:15:19Ranch Boulevard.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:15:21Mm Mr. Chairman Mariano? Yes. Can you go back to the slide? Yeah. Have you all had any conversations with the Porters or Wiregrass about the name for that road? Because I I don't imagine we're gonna call it Vision Road H for the rest of our lives. I Has there been any conversations about what it's I mean it's been called the Bruce B. Downs extension, the loop road. I there's always confusion about what it's gonna be named and then now I'm seeing three different names for this road. Mm.

   Aaron Landry

   1:15:52So

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:15:52we have you all had any conversations with them about what it should be named? W

   Aaron Landry

   1:15:55not about names. We have had conversations about the coordination to be able to obviously create this, but in terms of names we have not.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:16:03Yeah, I would encourage you to do so. I don't think Vidon Road H is the greatest name for a road, so probably needs to be named something else. Okay.

   GreyChair

   1:16:12And you're going to actually hit put that road in, is that correct? Correct. All the way to the

   Aaron Landry

   1:16:17two the two correct. So we we would put the road in from State Road fifty four, uh as you can see to sort of the You know, again where it starts to taper off of our property, from that point on, going west towards Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard would be the two easternmost lanes.

   GreyChair

   1:16:32Okay, and it'll connect to Wiregrass Ranch.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:16:34Correct. And then Wi Wiregrass Ranch is supposed to build it from Breeze Bowls five eighty one to Wiregrass Ranch Woolworth. Okay. The intent of this road originally was to allow you to basically bypass the 581 54 intersection, which is a very congested intersection.

   Connected City

   1:16:54So you're saying from your property to Wiregrass Ranch Road you're be building two of those lanes? Correct. Okay. So the O2 lanes are going to fall on who?

   Aaron Landry

   1:17:04Alternative the county when they when the capacity's actually there to warn it.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:17:08But that that's the same two lanes that Wiregrass has to build too. Right. It's it's starting out as a two lane road.

   Moody

   1:17:15It's just like similar to like the cubeless where you build half road or half the right-way. Yes.

   Connected City

   1:17:21They're building it basically offset. It'll become the eastbound two lanes. Okay.

   Aaron Landry

   1:17:28I'll go over briefly area development area two. In principle, the concept or programming for this area has not changed from what was presented to you in January with both commercial as well as residential townhomes proposed. So for the site plan here, you're seeing, of course, the commercial outparcel that we intend to create fronting State Road 54 with approximately 120 townhomes tucked in the back. The only thing I would note, which I believe Amy referenced as well, which is we are proposing to have a variation to eliminate

   1:17:58the connectivity at the south end of the property, at the request of the community. Frankly, we've had several community meetings over. The last you know six-nine months, and they were very adamant that they did not want to have any connectivity as far as the ability for someone to walk, bike, etc., uh, into Saddlebrook, given that Saddlebrook is a is an existing gated community. Um, we do view this, you know, this piece or this development area, um, it really is standalone and is self-sufficient in terms

   1:18:28of it has its own amenities. Uh, there is no reciprocity uh between the resort and this area. So folks who would live here again ultimately have everything they need as it relates to their own amenities within their community and and don't and would not have access into Saddlebrook.

   School District Representative

   1:18:48Can I ask a question on that? Yeah, I want to go back to it. Um I'm looking at the far eastern part of that property and it look I know there's a light there. Why would we not Put a light there. The main entrance is in the center of the property, but it seems like if you moved it further to the east you're gonna take advantage of that light traffic light that's right there. Just wondering why that wasn't done.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:19:14The property Barbara Will Hide, the property does not align with that uh intersection in that light where property's a little bit to the west.

   School District Representative

   1:19:20Yeah.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:19:21So

   School District Representative

   1:19:22Okay, it's a shame.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:19:28So are you done?

   School District Representative

   1:19:29Yeah, thank you.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:19:30So my question was and I I guess I'm just it's in the conditions but I just wanted to make sure you're publicly stating this that The Board of County Commissioners is is developing architectural and landscaping standards for town homes and you've agreed to comply with whatever those standards end up being? Correct. Okay.

   GreyChair

   1:19:52All right, continue.

   Aaron Landry

   1:19:55Moving on to development area one. Similarly, the programming for this area hasn't changed from January. It will be a mixed-use village concept that we've come up with. We are proposing to make sure it's munrum with the following uses, obviously being commercial, multifamily in terms of residential as well as the townhomes. So for area one, uh I'm gonna focus on a few of the key changes that uh that that were made from the January uh hearing that we had with you all. I think the

   1:20:26first is, you know, originally we had there were uh there were some there was a residential building that was uh along the eastern boundary along South Wolf Way, and we you know given the concerns that were raised from the community, um we we were able to relocate that building. Away from the entrance, so everything that we could do to try to preserve and make sure that that arrival experience in the Saddlebrook remains as much as possible as it is today. If not improve it, we certainly try to do that. So relocating a

   1:20:56building was was a part of that. We also shifted as best we could some of the buildings a little bit further away from the entryway along Saddlebrook Way. A couple other elements were uh the guard gate design uh for the relocated guard gate. So today one of the you know unfortunate circumstances of the design is that anyone who's coming into Saddlebrook, even though it's a a guard gated community, um If you were trying if you're a guard and you're trying to turn them around because they don't have credentials to be there, unfortunately you have to open the gate and really hope

   1:21:26that they do a U-turn and are good, you know, good citizens to turn around and leave. But under our current design that we've implemented in here, we've ensured that the design allows for people to be turned away and still be able to turn around without actually coming into Saddle World. So that was a design change that we had made. Likewise with Development area too. This is a you know self-sufficient sort of development community, if you will. That is to say, in terms of its amenities that are proposed, this this area has its own central clubhouse

   1:21:56that would service the residential. It is not reliant at all on Saddlebrook resort amenities. There is no sort of de facto becoming a resident. Of Saddle Brooks simply because you live in Area One. And ultimately what we're trying to create is that vibrant experience where you really have really great interaction between the commercial, and we try to create what was a main street concept that you're seeing with the two red footprints, which are the commercial buildings fronting State

   1:22:27Road 54.

   1:22:30And so the this next image here is really meant to give you a sense of, you know, our intention is to really enhance what is out there today as you go into Saddlebrook. We recognize that the community certainly has been very vocal about wanting to make sure that it feels good as you come in. And so we think that we like and love what's out there today, and we think it can actually be improved with the vision of landscaping and sort of intensifying what was done there. The next is this is a rendering

   1:23:00of the village center concept, and you're seeing really an image looking effectively through the heart of the town center, looking in this case will be sort of northwest at a at an angle. The building kind of in the background, you're seeing the commercial building, which has ground floor retail, you're seeing a restaurant. You know, we certainly want to have those types of uses that we believe. As an amenity, not just for residents inside Saddle Rook, but also for you know, in terms of resort business that comes and people that patronize,

   1:23:31as well as others that are nearby. And then you're seeing kind of in the foreground here the residential component with the apartments along sort of the left-hand page of this image. The next image here, a rendering here, is a sort of a view sort of down the main street. as I have described in the past. This is looking towards, you know, ultimately what is the western boundary of the property and where the Vision Road would be sort of at the terminus in the far distance. But again, just another view in terms of the concept and environment

   1:24:01that we're really trying to create with our idea for development area one. And then lastly, uh this is a an image of the townhomes, you know, at the east side along South Book Way. Uh there's approximately 35 townhomes, and so this is meant to give us sense of the design direction uh that we want to create for that sort of small enclave of townhomes. And with that, that completes the presentation.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:24:26Can you go back to the prior slide and not this one but the one part of this one? Yes. So I guess my question is for both you and or Barbara. Um And Brad may need to weigh in too. So I know you've committed to this area being mudderum. My question is So maybe it's a question for Brad. I don't think Mutterum requires vertical mixed use. I know it requires mixed use, but I'm not sure it requires vertical

   1:24:56mixed use. But you're depicting vertical mixed use. Are you Willing to commit that it would be vertical mixed use or you uh I guess I'm not sure what your commitment is. So let's let Brad ask the qu answer the question about whether Mutter requires it to be.

   Saez

   1:25:14Thanks. Uh Brad Tipp in planning development. Uh yeah, it does not require vertical mixed use. There is a mix that's required and depending on the space, a lot of times that ends up being vertical mixed use, but it is not a official mudderum requirement. So we can if they come back to the right-of-way.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:25:40Are worded, it doesn't necessarily require what is being shown in the pictures. So that's why I'm asking the question, are you committing to what's showing being shown in the pictures, or are you just committing that it'll be horizontal mixed use? I'm not sure what the commitment is, is basically the question.

   Aaron Landry

   1:25:57So so the commitment in terms of what you see is what you get. So that ground floor is retail, you're seeing office above.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:26:04So you're committing to vertical mixed. So you are committing to vertical mixed use. Yes.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:26:08And to be to make this clearer. At one point we had our little when you look at your concept plan, your binding concept plan, these salmon color buildings used to have a label on them that said that. It's not there now. Um so we'll if that's part of your motion, we'll make sure that this gets labeled. These get labeled on this concept plan so that binds us.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:26:29But that the front two buildings will be vertical mixed use.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:26:31That's

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:26:31correct.

   Christopher Poole

   1:26:33Okay. So along those lines if Dave, are you done? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So if we could go back could could you all go back a couple slides? 'Cause when I look at the overall concept plan, number one, thank you for providing this much level of information. Yep, one more for it. No, one more for the right-of-way. So when I look at that visually, I just see a lot of surface parking. So kind of along the lines of what Dave and is Dave is asking is to eliminate some of that surface parking possibly,

   1:27:03and you know, this is the main entrance from Souterbrook that's coming in. Um first thing that people are gonna kind of see when they when they come into the world-class resort that it is, is there a consideration of possibly putting parking underneath some of the apartment buildings there or or or something just to kinda eliminate some of that surface parking and possibly get some more buffering along that primary access road that's that's coming in.

   Aaron Landry

   1:27:30It is something we thought about, um, but I can tell you the the economics of sort of structured parking in this scenario simply does not work.

   Christopher Poole

   1:27:38Okay. 'Cause it seems like there is just to reinforce that, it seems like there is opportunity to possibly get some more buffering along that road and yeah, I didn't have the opportunity as I I said before we talked the other day to to really look at this. But I want to look at this, I'm like, wow, that's seems like there is an opportunity there to possibly have a little bit more separation from that main road 'cause as as you made the point, these are separate you know, this is a separate use, this area from the the road. resort, so being considerate of that and people coming to your resort or

   1:28:08going to the resort, I'm just uh I'll reinforce what I said for consideration.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:28:13We have to go through a mudder which Which I go through with many clients and all of these things are discussed.

   Christopher Poole

   1:28:21Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:28:22the staff puts you know, gets their their Hands kind of sounds negative, but they really do work with to try to make sure that whatever can be done to make it the best place possible is done. And so we have a binding concept plan, we have a muddle code, and then we have staff. So and the residents I'm sure will be you know in involved as they we go through that process as well. So

   Christopher Poole

   1:28:44Yeah, and of course, you know, we're not used to seeing this much information gonna be for us so I mean appreciate that the detail that's provided but given the fact that y we have this so much information, just some different ideas that we that we see because we're not privy to all that up front. So understood

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:28:57so can I ask one follow up question. So then the seventy five thousand square feet of commercial is the thought that that would all be on the ground floor of those two front buildings? Or is there possible to be another commercial piece somewhere on this point?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:29:14So I look yes.

   Aaron Landry

   1:29:15It's it would be concentrated in those two buildings between the the two floors and those two pink uh pink or red footprints of the buildings. So there's two

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:29:23So all the commercial would be in the front of this area basically. Correct. Okay.

   Connected City

   1:29:33Okay. I was I was just gonna say another thought could be to um the por that portion of the property there that's on the I guess it'd be the south side of the connection to the Vision Road. It doesn't look like it's right off the bottom of this particular um slide, but um it doesn't show that you have anything planned for that, so that might be a possibility of some redesign to be able to move some of the things uh some parking or maybe another building south to allow more parking or less parking in the front to give more of a buffer as well.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:30:11That concludes our presentation. We have the team available to uh answer questions now or after you hear some more presentation. So

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:30:20Barbara, could you get somebody in your team to address

   1:30:25Why you concentrated more of the residential density in area one versus area two?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:30:33Sure. One is uh the answer to that is uh just the location. You're talking about a major vision road coming ultimately from Bruce Bowns up through and going to be along our western boundary. We're we are going to construct a portion of that. One thing we didn't say was When we talk about phasing and what has to happen when relative to golf and range and renovations at the resort. That portion of the Vision Road has to be constructed before the first CEO force units delivered in area one. So

   1:31:03that's another thing of the investment on the road connection happens before the first resident moves in in area one. So I wanted to mention that. But the design is is is village focused. It's it's the density that you need to have a village. If you if you drive around Pasco you'll notice that we have mostly um anchor based retail. with out parcels and it's all auto dependent and it's it's it serves people driving by, driving to wherever we go and we all stop in those

   1:31:33places. When you try to create a village center, you need density. I have a village center over on in Mitchell Ranch where the county wanted someplace special, they want a place, and it's a Main Street approach as well. It's got 600 apartment units. to support that. So that's the reason why it's the it's the support of making it something other than just out parcel retail on fifty four with anchor based um tenants and creating

   1:32:03a place. So we so you don't have national retailers where your your choices are Chili's and Longhorn and and Olive Garden. You have restaurants where people want to go and stay and eat outside and listen to music and have the ability to have festivals and markets and So it but the density is very important to people being able to have those type of businesses 'cause it's not out parcels oriented to fifty four and autodependent. Did I answer that adequately? And I know this because

   1:32:34I meet with so many clients who propose all different things, and so I speak because this is what I know based upon how you put these village centres together.

   Connected City

   1:32:44I I have a quick question too. I d I don't know if your best to answer this or not, or maybe somebody else on your team, but um so the Vision Vision Road, um it looks like there's gonna be an additional right turn lane for eastbound fifty four. for it to access that road. Um but I'm not seeing a left turn lane being added for westbound fifty-four. So it um it looks like the the the entire project is

   1:33:14going to enter and exit off of the vision road. That is that correct?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:33:17I'm gonna have Steve Henry jump up here and he'll do a much better job.

   Connected City

   1:33:23Yeah, so I mean it doesn't look like on the concept drawing there's a Cut through on the medium. Steve

   Henry

   1:33:29Henry, Linkston Associates, 5023, West Lowell, Tampa. Uh you're correct. So today the the idea is that that would be a right in, right out. ultimately what's going to happen is that road's going to continue to the north. When it does continue to the north, it will then have a full median opening and be signalized. But at this point we didn't see the need in going through and putting a full median opening there. Uh it would require closing the median opening to the west that serves the Wiregrass Retail Center. So the idea is

   1:33:59today is to have that as a right-in-write out, design it and build it so that it ultimately can accommodate it. when it becomes a full median opening.

   Connected City

   1:34:07So y do you you don't think it's gonna be necessary to have the the median opening for the amount of Traffic that's going to be generated by that heavy amount of residential use as well as commercial.

   Henry

   1:34:18No, and we've run the analysis looking at it as a right in, right out. Uh you know, obviously what what this also does is it allows the those vehicles to get to Wiregrass Range Boulevard and to go north or south from there. So it does it does add that opportunity and and reduces the traffic based on that. And

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:34:36Wiregrass Range Boulevard you can make left

   Henry

   1:34:38out there. And that's that's why Grass Grange Boulevard is about to open up to the south. So it'll ultimately uh connect between fifty-six and fifty-four.

   Connected City

   1:34:50Yeah, I was just wondering more about traffic that was coming from um from east on fifty four to be able to access the uh the development. But that's most of the traffic's gonna be coming from the other direction.

   Henry

   1:35:01Correct, right. That we've we've run looked at it and most of it's coming from the west.

   Connected City

   1:35:05Okay.

   Christopher Poole

   1:35:06Steve, while you while you're up there um so all the tr truck traffic that's gonna come into the resort is gonna come in via that vision road? Correct, yes. How does that get routed through the resort? How does that get to get to the resort?

   Henry

   1:35:22I'll let them talk as far as I can tell you how to how to get from the road, but let them talk about how it's routed through the resort.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:35:31If we can bring back up that PowerPoint and mighty keep the concept planned up so as we talk we can reference it.

   1:35:43See if we can get the overall concept playing back up. Um Aaron, do you want to Speak to. That's right. I know the answer, but Aaron does much better.

   Aaron Landry

   1:36:06Doesn't work.

   1:36:09All right, I'll just have to I mean so basically what happens is once you once you come in uh in terms of service vehicle, you come in at that connection along the western boundary as as a service vehicle, you'll continue down past, you know, that the parking lot area you're seeing kind of that Sort of half half shape, uh I'm trying to think of the shape for it. But you're seeing a service parking lot which previously had um you know administrative uh buildings and trailers and you'll go down past this past where the schools are at. This is the route that they take the the trucks would take today, which is this is Fox Hunt

   1:36:39Drive, once you're inside Saddlebrook in order to get down. Because Fox Hunt Drive is this is the is the road that gets you over to the core of the resort in terms of where. the receiving and delivery um is today.

   Christopher Poole

   1:36:51So you're saying that's essentially no different than than it is to today once you're in.

   Aaron Landry

   1:36:56Once you're inside of South Power, correct. But you're obviously bypassing the main entrance.

   Christopher Poole

   1:37:01Yeah, so all the truck traffic that typically that currently comes in the front gate is gonna is gonna not be going there anymore. Okay.

   Aaron Landry

   1:37:07That's correct.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:37:10Can I ask Steve Henry one more question? Steve, Steve. This is one you can answer. So in area two Um I know it's writing right now, but

   1:37:27Is it safe for me to assume that you could never get a left out there be because of the proximity to the intersection?

   Henry

   1:37:34Yes. And and we've looked at that parcel for years for other people, but that that's the problem is you can't get to the signal unless you acquire additional property to the east.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:37:42Does that effectively limit the amount of development you can put in area two?

   Henry

   1:37:47It will it will limit the the viability of a lot of commercial because of of limited access. Obviously with full access and signal it it helps the the value and the the type of retail might go in there.

   Connected City

   1:37:59Okay.

   School District Representative

   1:38:02All right. Any other questions? Yeah, I got one more. Barbara? I guess I'm looking to the area to the south where the golf course is. You've got uh Wiregrass Esplanade to the south. And uh it doesn't show any houses there but they're gonna be built. Is there any thought about any kind of like golf cart access to there? 'Cause it just would seem so much easier to get there from the south.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:38:25If you if you pulled up Pl Pasco Mapper, what you'd see is it's a platted subdivision and wire grouse all along our south. So there's

   School District Representative

   1:38:33a dead end there.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:38:35Right. So I g I think a couple of things. One is it's all platted residential across our south. The other is a desire of our community, the Saddleburgh community, um, to maintain their gated access and so Again like they didn't the comment on area two, development area two, which is the town homes and not having that connectivity I'm sure it was proposed to come from the south, from the wire grass, we would have the same concern. They want to keep Saddlebrook behind the gate.

   GreyChair

   1:39:08Okay. If uh that's everyone on the presentation side who would like to speak or ask questions, Barbara, do you have something else?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:39:18Yeah.

   GreyChair

   1:39:20Okay. Yeah. All right, anybody else would like to speak or have any questions? Please come just come forward and give us your name and address.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:39:31Right.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:39:33Thank

   GreyChair

   1:39:33you.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:39:34Good afternoon, Chairman Mariano. I'm sorry before you speak to you. Can I ask Staff a favor just to leave the concept playing route in case people need to re No offense to Essen, I don't know. Oh you have a PowerPoint, okay, I'm sorry, okay.

   GreyChair

   1:39:53No comments.

   Connected City

   1:39:57It's a good picture.

   Jane Graham

   1:39:59Chair Gray, I had actually requested um eighteen minutes for myself, my client, Mr. Larry Barbetta, and our expert, but our expert isn't actually able to join. So would we be able to have sixteen minutes um in total, just myself and Mr. Barbetta? Sure, that'd be fine. Thank you very much. And actually that said, um I'll introduce myself quickly, but I'd like to have Larry Barbetta's presentation up because he's going to do the first presentation and I'll do the the second part.

   1:40:30My name is Jane Graham. I represent the Save Saddlebrook Coalition. Um and I'm here with Larry Barbetta. Where did he go? Okay, come here.

   GreyChair

   1:40:42Yeah, I

   1:40:42want

   1:40:42to come right on up front. Sorry.

   Jane Graham

   1:40:45Yeah, he is the president of the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition. He's also a resident and has quite a bit of business and hospitality and analytics expertise as a CEO of multiple companies, um ex um specializing in software analytics. I have some documents that I will put into the record one. One of which is the Save Saddlebrook Coalition bylaws and mission statement, which establishes standing in this case. It's c um this coalition

   1:41:16is composed of individuals who own property as well as HOAs within the Saddlebrook area. With that, I'm going to let Larry take it away and I'll come back.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:41:26So Gene, are you asking us to receive and file something? Yeah. What what are you asking us to receive in file?

   Jane Graham

   1:41:32So I have actually a a package, one of which includes the Safe Saddleback Coalition amended bylaws. It also includes um a number of other documents which I'll speak to.

   GreyChair

   1:41:43Do

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:41:44you want to give them

   1:41:44a little bit of

   1:41:44asking to receive file these to look at them? Yeah. Okay, then Probably need a motion.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:41:49Motion to receive and file. Second.

   GreyChair

   1:41:53All in favor? Aye.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:42:05Hello everyone. My name is Larry Barbetta. I live at [address removed] in Saddlebrook and I have been sworn in.

   1:42:18So first of all I'd like to just give you a quick update on what's been happening since we last met with you guys. I won't take you the day-by-day breakdown, but um We wanted to first thank you on the Planning Commission for giving us an opportunity to work with MAST and to coalesce our efforts as a community to understand this development project. And so we we thank you for giving us that opportunity and we thank the Board of County Commissioners as well for giving us some time to keep working. We also would like to

   1:42:48thank our representatives from Mast uh for the time. We appreciate the way you've dealt with things and the way you've handled us. We've had very respectful, I think, and professional engagement and we've made a lot of progress. And so I don't want to uh in any way make that um to minimize that. That being said, there are a couple of areas of this plan that we still are not comfortable with. Specifically, we feel we need better res better solutions for the resort revitalization in terms of the commitments

   1:43:18on scope of the renovations and the timing. And secondly, we remain very concerned about the Area One plants as it relates to density, type of product, traffic impact, etc. We think that there's an opportunity for this whole a plan to be a true win-win-win. A win for Mast, a win for Saddlebrook residents, and a win for Pasco County. But we need your help. To achieve that.

   1:43:50So as the team for Mass brought up, um We have agreed on a deed restriction to preserve the golf course and the views. We think that's very important and we're very grateful for that. And that is a very um, you know, meaningful, meaningful action. Where we still have issues is the resort revitalization commitment. And this is a critical issue for the community. For the viability to resort. And the revenue for Pasco

   1:44:20County. Simply put. We feel there's a need to increase the scope of the commitments on the development and when and when it gets completed. Okay. We also, as I mentioned, have some concerns about Area One and we'll we'll touch on that a bit, with the current density, traffic, safety. type of product as y some of you mentioned already, including the amount of parking, et cetera. Okay.

   1:44:52These were the points that were put up earlier. So in terms of the conditions, I won't read them all, but quickly 27 speaks to the fact that we're going to maintain the existing driving range until the new driving range has been constructed and is in operation. We think that's great. We're really we're really happy about that. The next thing talks about when development begins. And this is an area where we have some concern. because it says prior

   1:45:22to the first final building inspection in area one or two. They will commence renovation of existing hotel units owned by the applicant. Um I believe Mast owns seventy five or eighty of the Condotel units, somewhere in that range. And I believe there's four hundred and seventy three in total, correct? Okay. So That's one point. The other thing is we have renovations um in in certain parts of the resort brought up lobby, food and beverage, and ground level

   1:45:53meeting. Um those are important, but those are things that really benefit more the hotel operation and certainly not the members who are part of Saddlebrook or the or the community other than maybe the food and beverage which we certainly would welcome. Okay. The other point of concern is that The only completion date for renovations and the resort improvements is upon final building inspection for the 351st unit. Now

   1:46:24It doesn't have a date. It doesn't have a start date. But by the time you would lay out all of the things that have to take place with the way the golf course works, as the folks have described or in in prior um Meetings. That is a project that you have to do because of Florida weather apparently from March to November. Because of the growing. So we are concerned and we think the county should be concerned that the first completion milestone of the

   1:46:54resort condos and the resort itself isn't until we're at unit 351.

   1:47:03We think this kind of should be flipped. Because isn't the priority? To revitalize the Saddleback Resort. They bought Saddlebrook Resort. We didn't buy a pasture. So we would like to think that we should increase the commitment to not only include the mast own units, But let the other condo owners opt in. And obviously there's economies of scale which would benefit masked. Now I know they can't be accountable. for personal

   1:47:34property people joining. But by all means we need the county needs more than eighty rooms. To get Saddlebrick Resort back. So we would like to see that part of the mix. The other thing is we really want to see completion milestones. far earlier than after three hundred and fifty first apartment unit in area one. Th we we heard from even Jordan in response to a question today that it's not a funding issue.

   1:48:06You were the commission asked that question. So if it's not a funding issue, Why do we want lost revenue for the county? Why do we want to delay this? And again, without getting too deep into economics If you go to the Saddlebrook website today. And this is not the high season. The rate is one hundred eighty nine for next weekend. That's for the one bedroom. It's two sixteen for the two bedroom and it's four fifty four for the three bedroom. Yeah.

   1:48:38With the five percent tax That the county gets? Plus the penny for Pasco, plus the additional one percent. You're talking about seven percent Lost revenue for the county. On every night. That it isn't developed. and also for any unit that isn't developed. So very quickly you get into looking at about $5,200 a night if you had the 393 additional units built. Okay.

   1:49:09And think about what that would mean over time and getting it built sooner. So we would ask for your help. Two. Move this in a more expeditious and broader manner.

   GreyChair

   1:49:24Can I

   1:49:24c

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:49:24can I ask another question?

   GreyChair

   1:49:25Sure, please.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:49:26So

   1:49:29I understand your point. If you could just back to the prior slide. I'm just I'm my question is

   1:49:36How do I mean they don't own those four hundred and seventy three units, so how do you How would how can Mass commit to renovate units they don't own?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:49:48I'm not asking that they would commit, but they could add something like that they will do their units and all others that are privately owned that opted in. For example. Because there's individual clusters. So for instance, if Mast owned half the units in cluster one, I'm just illustrating. Are you saying that they would

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:50:08contract the work or pay for those rent I'm I'm not sure what you're asking them to do because I'm not sure why you're why would MA why should mask be responsible for renovating somebody's private unit.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:50:19Well, no, they're no, I'm not asking them to pay for it, so it's a good question. Um just as now, the individual owners will have to make a decision as to whether they're going to pay the assessment that they'll be levied to upgrade their unit. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't only commit to doing their 80 units, they should commit while they're doing their 80 units that they would also include. include give an option for the owners to offer up their unit to be renovated at the same time.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:50:49If those owners are willing to pay for

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:50:51the right-way. Yeah. Okay. Right, right. Does an

   Connected City

   1:50:53option already exist though with those owners? What wouldn't they be able to Do that at any time.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:50:58They haven't yet been told the cost or the break even points or anything else yet at this juncture. And as you can see that obviously and again it makes perfect sense that when you're doing a cluster and if half are owned by masked and half are owned privately, it would be more efficient to do the whole cluster at once.

   Christopher Poole

   1:51:18So you're suggesting more of an economies of scale sort of issue. I mean if the contractor's already in there doing the work, might as well do all the units at the same time as long as those people opt in and pay for it.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:51:28Correct. Which then would get more units it gets the hotel brought back faster, more units for Pasco. So more revenue for masks too.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:51:39Now did you see there was a finding of fact that I think Amy put up at the beginning that said that our Office of Economic Growth was working with Mass to address this very issue. Did you notice that?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:51:52Um I sp spoke with David Engel very recently. And yeah, I mean y you were we were on a call together with him briefly and we've spoken since. Right, but

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:52:03I but I guess my point is is that I'm not sure this this particular issue that you're bringing up I don't know that the county's ignoring it. I in fact I spoke to David Ingall, I know he has similar concerns. It just that I don't think they've developed the language that's intended to address it. That's why I'm asking you the questions, what is it you're suggesting? Better better This is this is sort of an open dialogue item because even David Ingel would tell you if he was here that this issue has not been

   1:52:33fully based. That that's the one issue that has not been fully baked in his mind. Right. So that's why there's a finding of fact in the memo that says that he's continuing to work with the applicant on that issue.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:52:43Okay.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:52:43But your request is that they basically MAST open up the renovations to those other four hundred whatever number of units it is. Three hundred and ninety three is three hundred and ninety units to do at the same time they're doing their own. If they pay for it. If the owners opt in, yes.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:53:01Okay.

   School District Representative

   1:53:03So I kinda see a feasibility issue with that 'cause let's say we're all condo owners and I say yes and you say yes. And Jamie says no. So I mean the constru how does that work feasibility wise? The construction's going on and They're doing mine and then the noise is bothering Jamie.

   Connected City

   1:53:22Yeah, I would assume each e the the contractor would work on each unit individually and when they finish one they move on to another one. The only issue might be though is if a um three hundred units opt in all at once, um th then there's only so much labor to go around to be able to get those and materials to get those done.

   School District Representative

   1:53:39And you'd have to get one unit to can be completely yes. Instead of just piecing

   GreyChair

   1:53:44them in. I I honestly I think it's it's more of a common good kind of an approach to it. You know, you got let's say you got thirty units on a f on a floor and twenty five of 'em wanna do it, you just do 'em all at once and the five that don't want to do it, they don't get done, you know, and they just have to live with that because it's a common good for the for the whole community. Right. That's That's the way I see it. Yeah, it makes sense. And the only way you're gonna get economies of scale is if you do 'em all at the same time. Yeah. You can't do them individually. Yeah.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:54:15So a couple of things, Barbara will heighten taking the time, but what you're saying is I agree with we've actually worked on some of this language. It's not we're still working on it with Dave Engel. But some of the concepts in the language are one that my client pass to whatever they're paying to renovate their units is the same for third party units. So they don't get to mark up and and so they get the same. So that's the one thing we're working on. The other thing we're working on is that timing, giving those third party owners saying you haven't you have this date You

   1:54:46sign up by this date to renovate, then we'll renovate our units and your units units together. And that's the intention is to do them all together because That's where you get the the economies of scale, like you said, and all and being able to keep those that pricing Consistent. But to say once you sign up, we have commitments and in these conditions that say when we have to do our units, well if you sign up by a certain date, we gotta complete your unit. with our commitments when we're going to complete our units. So we're working on those concepts. Um and so I just want to say that. Like so it didn't just go flat and

   1:55:16just like, you know, but We can continue to work on it and um we agree that we can improve the language and we're addressing it and working on it. But those are some of the beginning ideas. And it's exactly what you're saying, so

   Connected City

   1:55:28Right. Can Barbara, can you also speak to um the financing of those renovations to the um So what what financing options would the owners have to be able to finance

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:55:38those renovations? If I may, because this is Mr. Barbetta's presentation, um let him continue and we'll we'll definitely can speak to all those things. So thank you for giving me a moment.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:55:49No problem. Thank you. Thank you, Barbara. And we're encouraged by that. But to be clear, we're we can only react to the wording that is presented and we've been having conversations about these topics for months. Okay? So It's not the first time we've brought this up. Okay. The other thing as I mentioned is the timing is also important. Okay. as as we brought up, the concern about The three fifty one being the first completion.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:56:18Can I ask you what what would what would your propose if it's not three 'cause the the applicant did say that wasn't a magic number. Could you tell what what is your suggestion of what the number should be?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:56:29Well, I guess we'd have to understand the timing of the project and we understand you can't control everything. There's acts of God, there's labor. We're not expecting anything unreasonable. But what might be good is if we had a you know, a committed start date. that was soon and earnest efforts, whatever, right? And then we would have some completion milestone. That would be earlier. I don't know what the calendar date would be for the plan for three fifty.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:56:56Well I mean uh the Ray I read condition twenty eight, they are committing to a start date. 'Cause they have to start Um prior to the first any building in area one they have to at least have started. That's how I'm reading condition twenty eight.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:57:12They have to commence, yes.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:57:14Are you so you want a calendar date? Is that what you're asking for?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:57:17Yeah, I mean obviously yeah, I think a calendar date or a reasonable date and I'm look and an early completion date is all we're trying to get at. Okay,

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:57:26so so your issue is that You want calendar dates instead of just tying it to development in area one and two. I just want to know I want to be clear on what you're asking. That's

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:57:36what we're doing.

   1:57:40A date would be best, obviously, and we'd understand there could be extenuating circumstances.

   GreyChair

   1:57:44Well it might be hard to pick a date, but you just pick an on or before date. Yeah. Yeah. Or a target yeah,

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:57:49target completion. Right. Right. But and then a target completion is the key too, right? The way I read that three hundred and fifty-one units I I I interpret that as years. Years.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:58:02Okay. Okay, so you're looking for something that you like a a calendar date that you can hang your hat on that isn't tied to unit construction, that's what you're asking.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:58:10Or or a much quicker uh a or a completion date tied to way fewer units. Whatever would be most important.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:58:21If it was you?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:58:22Yeah. Well I prefer gate than number of units because I I know,

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:58:27but what then you said or a number of units, so I'm asking you what is what is your request?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:58:32What is your what is the current schedule as it looks like for the resort renovation and the and the uh condo tel renovations?

   Aaron Landry

   1:58:43And we

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:58:44just spoke about it at

   Henry

   1:58:44length, so

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:58:46Yeah, but I've never heard a date. Okay. We can't have to do that.

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:58:52If you don't know the answer then just think about it and tell me later. Okay. I I wasn't sure but you you're asking the the number the unit count be produced. Uh but it'd be helpful to know what your y what your request is.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:59:05Well the reason I'm asking for the unit number to be reduced would be to try to get to an earlier date. So you're clearly

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:59:12you made your point. Okay, go ahead.

   Connected City

   1:59:24So if if they came and said that The target completion is so if they can put a target completion on that, that's a reasonable date, then you'd be okay with that too, I would assume.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:59:31Exactly. Okay. Exactly. We're only slightly unreasonable, right?

   GreyChair

   1:59:37I've heard that.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:59:40Just Just ask my wife. Um okay. So we've covered I think these points and I appreciate the questions. Um Aries by the way

   GirardiVice Chair

   1:59:48I do have to compliment you by being very specific with your requests. Okay. This is a breath of fresh air compared to some your other presentation. I just wanted to point that out. Yes.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   1:59:58Indeed. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. We're we're trying to be pragmatic. Okay. So the other area where we have concerns is Area One as it sits right now. As you know, it's a it's kind of a shock candidly to those of us who've lived in Saddlebrook, who have, you know, the peaceful environment we do. We had reasonable investment-backed expectations. Um we know things change, but that was not allowed or contemplated up there. That up

   2:00:28the area one area as it was previously zoned didn't permit this. Okay. And so this is new. And we're talking about four hundred and sixty-five apartments, thirty-five townhomes. The scope of the parking, as some of you brought up, I believe it's like 900 plus parking spots is required. So it isn't really the kind of breathable, green space, walkable kind of model and it it is it sits in sharp contrast to the spaciousness of

   2:00:59Saddlebrook in the community and also doesn't really seem befitting as your gateway into a four plus star resort. You know, so we feel that that's something that's important. Um We brought this up and there has not been any change in this area. And you brought up also the difference in intensity and density. Area two is about 20 acres and it only has 25,000 square feet of commercial, 120 townhomes. So it's a the residential is six per acre, the other one is 15.6

   2:01:29per buildable acre. So that's kind of a big difference, obviously. And remember, we have a whole lot of other development that's already been approved. that hasn't been modeled and I'll let our traffic people speak to that. But there's a lot to consider on what it's going to mean to the roads. And and as we heard with the Vision Road, Um

   2:01:54There is no light and the light is not directly I was told directly by the county that the light isn't coming. Jane maybe we'll speak to that unless it goes connect to the north and then they still have to do a study to prove the need and there's a bunch of lights together. So we're worried that this is gonna flow a whole bunch of traffic into the small Saddlebrook wishbone which is already unwieldy. Okay, we call it the wishbone, the little exit there. Because the exit They're gonna have to if you exit the area one and you go on the vision road,

   2:02:24if you're going to fifty four, you're gonna turn right on fifty four, it's a right only. You gotta cross three lanes and do a U turn at the Saddlebrook Light. Or you come out on the saddlebrook side. So we think this is gonna have a significant impact. um a negative impact on traffic and the flow in our area.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:02:43So can I can you go back to that slide? 'Cause I Maybe your traffic expert needs to address this, but I understand your point, but I have to imagine at some point There'd be commercial the Wiregrass is going to develop a commercial parcel on the other side of that Vision Road and that all those and I stopped to confirm this, that all the commercial is gonna interconnect over to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard so that even if

   2:03:13you didn't want to take the Vision Road down to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard that you could take uh interconnecting parking lots over to wire grasp grant boulevard to make a lot. Does that I guess I maybe Steve Henry knows the answer to that question. But is all the stuff that's In Wiregrass on the other side of the Vision Road, is it all interconnected to Wiregrass Frenchable or does anybody know the answer to that question? If they followed our code, it would be, but I don't know if they followed our code.

   Henry

   2:03:45Yeah. Uh Steve Henry again. Uh so the answer is that at at current that that is the plan. Uh now you know they they still don't have all of that planned out, but a as they keep developing, it is all interconnected. The last couple developments that we've done along there, the commercial have all been interconnected. So ultimately I think it it will all be interconnected. But there's not a master plan for all the that that parcel right now.

   Chris Williams

   2:04:15Correct. And there are other restaurants in that area too. And do you know I know they're working on that wire grass road to go more in a southerly direction to connect. I don't know the time frame on it, obviously, maybe you do Steve. But I don't see I I can see this particular project here where you don't have to make the right turn out I so you can make a left, go over to uh and I don't know the name of that street, towards Walmart and go out and exit that way. That's sure. That's what I do. I go out there and

   2:04:45and I I go out that way. So I don't see a Yeah. Although I'm not an expert.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:04:51Well my my and my specific question for Steve was yes, and that was the des earlier testimony that by I think Barbara that you could take the vision road to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard to get to where Walmart is and take the light. My question for Steve was if you didn't want to go that circuitous route to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard, could you just go straight through all the interconnecting Commercial parcels over to wire reference rings will work.

   Henry

   2:05:17But and right now th th they aren't all interconnected because there's still parcels that are missing in in there, but ultimately that they will all interconnect.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:05:24Brad, can you get up and confirm that those would all interconnect?

   2:05:29I want to hear him say that so he's not gonna grant any alt standards.

   GreyChair

   2:05:34You raise your right hand.

   Saez

   2:05:37Red tip in planning and development. Uh at this time the intent is yes for all of these to be as interconnected as possible. There may be some situations where, you know, it may be a somewhat security route to get through there because there may be an engineering issue. Uh but the intent is yes, that those will those Commercial projects will connect through their parking lots as well as the roadway network around them. So that's the intent.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:06:00Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your presentation. I just wanted to understand what the plan was. Thank you.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:06:04I'm not here to talk, I'm here to get answers, so I appreciate it. You're welcome to interrupt. Okay. So we're open to different ideas here. We would obviously We have discussed the possibility of moving some of the residential density to area two. We'd also be open to considering increased commercial for reduced residential potentially. We'd certainly welcome some different product type like someone talked about unfortunately that there's some cost issues. I'm

   2:06:34not an engineer, but I mean Just as a lay person I would prefer Less parking, more green space. If that meant, you know, multi-use, um mixed use, multi-level with parking underneath, that you know, but I don't know what's possible or not. I'm not an an engineer, okay? So those would be the types of things. The other things is while all this stuff is happening in influx, if the Vision Road solves all these problems, then maybe we don't have a connection to the Saddleburgh wishbone.

   2:07:07Just Right now. the commercial and the residential come into that road in a couple places. If we're so convinced that everything's fine with the vision road, let's so do that to reduce our traffic impact.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:07:20But I guess the reason it doesn't make sense to me is then what if you want to what if you the residents want to use the vision road? You're forcing them to

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:07:26go

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:07:27out on the fifty four.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:07:28No, no, we can we the residents have access through the vision road at this point here. This is down below, so this just followed the plan downward. So You see, this is inside of Saddlebrook. So if you look at those black lines at the top, sorry, I couldn't get this where you could see everything. So this is just below. that on your uh binding concept plan.

   2:07:56This down below where you see I don't know if this has a pointer thing. Does it have a I know. No, doesn't seem to. Oh, great. Yes. Oh thank you. Okay, great. Okay. Right down there is this is this is the current entrance into Saddlebrook. This is Fox Hunt Drive. Okay? And down through here, this is the little And this is the little role. Right now we have a

   2:08:26s this is a we call it the service road here. This road exists, by the way, it just doesn't connect with 54. Okay. So right here, this is the way that we would access going out through here, this is the access to the Vision Road right here for the residents. And you could turn right or left. Now, one concern that we have, by the way, with this is by pushing the traffic internal. These are old roads, they have no sidewalks. And this by the way, if we push things through here, this is a fifteen mile an hour road. There's speed bumps

   2:08:56here. There's stop signs there. There's the crosswalk here. This is the school. This is the school. It's right on the road. And there's no side path. And this is a a boarding school where eighty plus percent of the peop well, a hundred percent of the people either live in Saddlebrook or live in the dorms. So Obviously there's some things that need to get sorted out here if we're going to push a bunch of traffic in that direction.

   2:09:24So Um, in conclusion, again, we thank you for giving us the opportunity to present. We thank you for giving us the time to work with MASC. We respectfully and sincerely thank MASC, and we look forward to continuing to work together to hopefully work out some of these details because there are some details that still need to be addressed, in our opinion. to move forward. Okay, and we need your help to do so. We have negotiated quite a bit. We've had a lot of meetings. We are where we are, not out of the

   2:09:54lack of effort, but we still need a push to get it to where I think it is a win win win for everyone.

   Christopher Poole

   2:10:01Mm Mr. Barbetta real real quick, could you go back a couple of slides and just w where is the security gate coming into if you go one more maybe? Yeah,

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:10:09I'm trying.

   Christopher Poole

   2:10:11Okay. Where is the existing security gate? Is it all the way down?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:10:14It's hard. Right now it's kind of like up further. And by the way, what happens is when they come into Saddlebrook, there

   2:10:20is

   2:10:21a turn over here. They don't the the trucks and deliveries don't go through the Saddlebrook gate. That was a misstatement. I know nothing uh because what they do is they cut across this road here, that this is the service road. And by the way a lot of the deliveries go up here in the sheds and The storage facilities that they have. But when you have to get into the resort, they go here, they go before the security gate, and then follow that service road around. That's what they do right now. Now, what's gonna happen, they're relocating the gate, and I guess uh you know the mask vote can speak to that better.

   2:10:51I mean, is this the new gate location? Right. Oh that's what they're yeah. So it's pushing it back here.

   Connected City

   2:11:05S so the only devil's advocate thing I would say there with a positive to connecting that uh future project with uh the Saddlebrook is then you have some advantages to someone wanting to to live in that those new units, to be able to connect with Saddlebrook amenities. So if they wanted to come in and play golf or they wanted to come in and use the resort in some way or shop there.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:11:28Well if if they did they can go down this road here, obviously.

   Connected City

   2:11:35Can we entrance

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:11:36the time? That's okay. We'll we'll talk about the time in a second. Well can I ask you one more question about that concept? Because I I'm not What about the townhomes to the east of the of the Y road? I mean how are they gonna get to Division Road if you block it off? Right,

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:11:52right. Well the way they would get to Division Road is th they the same way we do. Well, first of all, you can go out they could go out here and turn 'cause they're on this side of of the situation, right? The other thing is just like us, they could come down if they wanted and go get at it here. It's a bit of a circuitous route, but that's just the same

   Connected City

   2:12:08thing. They wouldn't be able to get past the resident gate though if you're not going to be able to do

   Christopher Poole

   2:12:13Is that correct though? They wouldn't be able to get past us because those are separate. They would not be able to get past our

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:12:19resident, correct? I'm not sure what the plans are. They've said that that's to be separate, is my understanding. Yeah, they wanted it separate from Seth Weightman.

   GreyChair

   2:12:34Well we uh we can all come up with a thousand ideas of uh trying

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:12:38to yeah.

   GreyChair

   2:12:38I think we have a pretty good understanding of what your concerns are. One of the things I I'd just like to remind remind you that From all the p reports that I've had Well Saddlebrook needs someone to come in there and we put some money into it. We're

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:12:54in violent agreement.

   GreyChair

   2:12:54Otherwise you're just gonna keep going backwards and keep going backwards and They can't do it, even mass capital. When somebody comes to me and says, Well, money's no object, we've got plenty of money, I get nervous. Right. Because that's never true.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:13:10No, I understand.

   GreyChair

   2:13:11And the only way they're gonna get money to do this project is if they can put units up there like where the driving ring used to be. Everybody has to give and take. Everybody has to be because you gotta think, and we talked about this earlier, for the greater good of everybody in there. If somebody's gonna come in and try to rescue Saddlebrook, give them something. You know, they've gotta they've gotta they've gotta have a carrot too. So it can't all be green space,

   2:13:41you know, it can't all be roads to nowhere. It it's gotta be a combination of of effort. And what I see here is these people seem to be making a money. monumental effort and w in working with you and I think all of you are doing a great job too in working with them and not being just in an adversarial position. Right. So I mean I think that's I think David said it ear said it earlier, it's a breath of fresh air. to see some some people thinking,

   2:14:12you know, actually putting some thought into it. I think you're go you've come a long way. I think you're almost there. Thank you. And uh you know, and I think we need to do what we can to push it over the edge because if you lose out on this investor, who knows when the next one might come along in this especially in this market.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:14:32Yeah, well we're we are realistic and we're thankful. Okay. And and we just want to do the things to make sure it's a win win win. That's all. And we're close.

   GreyChair

   2:14:42Yeah, and that's believe me, that's what we all want because this is all our home. We may not live in Saddlebrook, but we have a vested interest in everything that we do becoming becoming a success. being something something we can point to as something we're proud of and that's what we want to do here. Excellent. We we want to try to work with you and we'll do whatever we can to support you and we know what it's going to take to make that happen. So thank you for your comments. We

   2:15:12certainly are going to put take them into consideration and uh you know starting dates, things like that. Right. That uh that we'll try to get uh set those things and and uh you know amenity reservoir renovation. you know, the pool area, all that stuff. Right. That's that's a mess. Yes. You know? And it's as I say, it's gonna take money to fix it. So and believe me, in my opinion, once you get it done, you're

   2:15:43gonna be very happy with it, I think. And uh you're gonna have a it's gonna certainly anchor in. So um David do you had something to do with the Well I just

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:15:54have one more question. I don't know if it's for you or Jane, but the PowerPoint we just saw, does it represent the views of basically your whole group. I mean, I'm just trying to figure out are we down to these two or three remaining issues or are we about to hear from a bunch of other people that have a bunch of other issues? I mean, I I'm just

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:16:14I believe that these represent The the coalition is open, as Jane mentioned, to property owners in Saddlebrook. And we also have two HOA members, which are the two largest resident HOAs, the Fairway Village and Spoa. And these are the most important issues that we have. So we're we're representing and bringing forth the feelings of the groups. We did surveys of people, etcetera. We intend to do one more survey. Once we get the feedback from the Planning Commission, before that

   2:16:44we go to the county commissions, we w intend to do another community wide survey, not just for the coalition. But based on the surveys we've done, this reflects the priorities. The number the c the top concerns were what we've talked about. We've been quite consistent on what those are. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um may I ask since there was some questions and different things, would it be appropriate for our uh lawyer Jane Graham to get a little more than fifty-three seconds? 'Cause I was supposed to take eight.

   GreyChair

   2:17:14Okay, I'll give you a whole minute.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:17:18Well typically

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:17:19we don't count question time, but I I don't know if you've been No, I don't know.

   Denise

   2:17:23Yeah, I'm not running the clock, but I I'm I'm sh if it was let if the clock was still moving while the questions were happening, we're that's something that shouldn't have happened. Yeah of course

   Jane Graham

   2:17:33I'd like to respectfully request six minutes, but I think I can do it probably in three.

   GreyChair

   2:17:37Go ahead. Thank you again and uh I think you've earned it.

   Jane Graham

   2:17:44Thank you very much. So um just as what my client was saying, we have really appreciated the opportunity to meet with Mass. We've had numerous meetings with Barbara Wilhite, Jordan and Erin. We're getting really close, but we're not there yet. And just Is this working?

   2:18:07Uh okay. So there are still inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan and actually just the backup.

   2:18:16We say that the application as is, what's actually in front of you, should and could be rejected because it it fails to meet a number of the different rezoning criteria and as you know you have a great attorney, Mr. Mr. Goldstein, as quasi-judicial hearing, you have to look at the criteria in front of you and make sure that it is supported by competent substantial evidence. And here I think based on what my client has said and what you'll hear from others, there are continuing issues as far

   2:18:46as the density and compatibility of land use. And

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:18:50Jean, I don't have your handout. Was this all in your handout?

   Jane Graham

   2:18:53Yeah.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:18:53Okay. Just want to make sure.

   Jane Graham

   2:18:56Um but I'm not going to really focus on that so much because I think as Larry said we're actually getting close based on all the conversations we've had. There are inconsistencies. Um one of them goes to the tourism, um, as as Larry was saying, because the first final building inspection, and I'm not gonna belabor this point about we think that these conditions 28 and 29 need to be updated

   2:19:26to expedite resort renovations, to give kind of a legal reason why we care. If you look at Objective E D one point seven and one point seven two and one point seven three, it's important to have strong tourism in Pasco County. And if you look at Saddlebrook, it's actually the only real resort right now in Pasco County. Aside from if you search resort Pasco County on Google, you get Saddlebrook

   2:19:57and then you get two resorts which are actually clothing optional. So this is the main real resort that you will see in Saddlebrook. That's why it's so extremely important that this is expedited because it's a tour it's a major tourism focus. On top of that, there's a Gulf Tourism Convention at Saddlebrook next uh in two weeks. And so it just speaks to the fact that Saddlebrook is a landmark, and in your decision. decisions as far as phasing and timing why

   2:20:27it's really important that it needs to be expedited. We do still have issues in Area One with density and use, as Larry had already spoken about. If you look at the old Saddlebrook documents from 1979, you'll see that the intent was to develop the core area as the central feature. This is actually departing from that by going out to the periphery. You're creating a mudderum, which is a mixed-use center on the periphery on 54, whereas

   2:20:58if you look at the intent of how it was developed, What really should be looked at is how can it be further integrated and expediting the resort renovations to help. Density on development area one with 500 residential units, over 500 on 35 acres, that's over 14 units per acre. If you look at the land use districts, I mean that would be a residential 24. So that's really more than double res 6, if

   2:21:28just to put it in perspective. The other thing is that you're approving this as an MPUD. The purpose of MPUD districts is to encourage innovation as far as residential development, more flexible land development, conserve natural resources, protect wooded areas. If you look at this comparison of what it looks like right now on the driving range, it's all Green space, you have the driving range, you do have some on the left hand side of the maintenance sheds, but it's wooded area

   2:21:58where the proposed townhomes, and then just compare it because in the development area one there's just so much paved over, and as one of the commissioners stated, there must be a way that more green space can be protected. There's an old document from 1997 from the county that actually says that it was intended that 50% of this area, which was originally for commercial space, would be reserved for landscaping. So it does go to the idea

   2:22:29that you want to make sure that you're preserving enough green space, not just for the environment, but to preserve the entrance. Character, all of that. Residential compatibility and transition. You've heard a lot from people already. I'm not going to belabor the point, but the residents are still concerned with this high density that it will have impact. And we do want to continue you we want to encourage you to it look at clustering to limit

   2:22:59the impact of residential development and look at What are creative ways to foster superior design?

   2:23:10Protection of residential neighborhood, on-site traffic flow. You will hear from some people from the coalition and residents as to on-site traffic flow and some of the concerns. We do have our expert Drew Rourke, who just got the May 22nd traffic timing and phasing report yesterday, so he has not had a chance to review it. We don't know if your staff has even had a chance to adequately review it. A couple questions that you should keep in

   2:23:40mind is how does the model accurately account for all the traffic from the fut the influx of the newly approved but unbuilt development? Um other areas have things like a congestion management system. Pasco County does not. It's something that should be considered. I know I'm out of time just to quickly wrap up in looking at this as well with the model Pasco's population has changed. It's you know it's really on the up and up. So your decisions

   2:24:11as far as density impacts. it's important to think how how is it impacting the larger area. Based on all of that, In the most objective way possible, if you were to ask us now, the proposal does not meet the criteria that you need today for rezoning. It's unsupported by competent substantial evidence. And uh Saddlebrook residents deserve better. But that said, if as my client has explained, if there can be some concessions

   2:24:41and some more specificity as to the Conditions on the timing and phasing of resort renovations, as well as some kind of assurances that either density in Area One will be reduced or done in such a way that more green space is conserved, then I think that that's something where we will be able to get to a win-win. We're not there yet. Again, we do thank Mass. We have had a lot of good conversations with them, but we're we're Not where we need to be to yet. Thank you.

   GreyChair

   2:25:12Thank you. Um my my only comment back to you is again and and you said this, we have three resorts in in Pasco County. I I think if you don't get a good financial partner very soon, we're gonna have two. They'll both be closing optional. And so I think it really is very important that you hang on to this particular investment company. There aren't a lot of them out there in this market. And you know, I'm in the business, so

   2:25:43I know. And uh I I think you've been very fortunate to come come across a very good company, very strong company. I think they can make a big difference in in your lives and the growth of Saddlebrook. Um

   2:26:03Yeah, if you had five or six people knocking on the door wanting to do all these other things that you want, yeah it might be different, but I don't think you do. So, um, you know, just take that into account. That's all I'm saying. Any other comments from up here or questions?

   Chris Williams

   2:26:20Yeah, I've got a couple of you.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:26:21Well well we we our public hearing is not over, so yeah just to keep that in mind that we're not doing general comments on the application. We haven't given the public the rest of the public a chance to see or Barbara just to do rebuttal, so let's

   GreyChair

   2:26:34Right, I just wanna know if anybody has any com questions for this app this advocate.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:26:39Okay. All right. And on that procedural issue, Denise, do we have people on WebEx for this one?

   Denise

   2:26:49There are folks on WebEx and I do want to mention that there is one gentleman specifically who would like to if he could go now if that's possible. And it's Mr. Sullivan.

   GreyChair

   2:26:59Let me just ask is there anyone else in the audience that needs to speak?

   Denise

   2:27:02We do have some folks signed up. Um we do have um K uh Keith or uh Swoke, Nancy Foster, Alan Thornburg, I believe that's us, and Andrew Pines.

   GreyChair

   2:27:17Okay. Um

   2:27:22Okay. Um let's go ahead and take the personal web X then.

   Denise

   2:27:26Okay. Mr. Sullivan, if you would please state your name and address for the record and whether you have been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:27:37Good afternoon. Thank you. I am W. Michael Sullivan. I swore along with everyone else during the video swearing. I live at my own [address removed]. My permanent residence is [address removed]. I just wanted to a couple of points, the first of which to follow up on uh an email I received

   2:28:07Tuesday while I was traveling from the chair asking me to the best of my ability to walk Depend the survey by being to draw all units owned by NAS from the survey responses that I presented to you at the last meeting. Survey number T Wall participants as being

   2:28:38Without name or oper on it or identify. What I did in order to attempt to comply with the chair's request. I went into the database which he

   Denise

   2:28:52mister Mr. Sullivan, can you give me just a second? Um the chair that he's speaking of is Chairman Mariano. Okay, that's what I was about to ask.

   2:29:00Not Chairman Gray. I was

   GreyChair

   2:29:02I wasn't Sounded very regular. Any recall of that.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:29:06Yes. Chairman Mariano requested me I'm looking hard at this little video screen but have eye surgery and only have one eye resperting right now so bear with me uh I didn't need to suggest the comment here. And so what I did is took the there was one respondent who responded 50 times on the same IP address. I look through those

   2:29:3750 responses. And if Sonia or Dave would share with you I can tell you that in question five. Which was the one about that the board was able to get the conservation agreement that the forever offered developer would play 27 holes to detect his own space involved which she supported. The original response was 89.7% said gas.

   2:30:08Under the new test, 89% said. Yes.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:30:13Mr. S Mr. Sullivan, can can I stop you for a second?

   Denise

   2:30:16We're having some technical

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:30:17difficulties. Yeah, we're not seeing whatever whatever you're describing, we're not seeing.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:30:22Well, someone can just add it up here for a moment.

   Denise

   2:30:26Yeah, we're having technical difficulties, so if you please bear with us.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:30:34I'm attempting to be as helpful as I can in your deliberations and your knowledge.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:30:43You don't have a a a paper copy of this that you can email to us?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:30:50I did send that to Sonia so you can uh serve me and I would request you accept that as freaking testing.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:31:00Well, we can receive and file if we have a paper copy of whatever or a digital copy of whatever you're trying to present to us, but I don't know if we have it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:31:09I have sent that to Sonia and she had just begun to try and get it on the screen for me. So it has been submitted electronically to that.

   GreyChair

   2:31:23Sonya you're trying to pull it up now?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:31:33In order to not raise your time and I appreciate you teaming up quickly because I'm supposed to be with the governor at the state of Iron in in 33 minutes and I'd have to change you with them. Um the the the outline is of the bottom line on these you could move on to the next one. And you can see there was a change from 89 to 73, 89.7 to 89. So no substance

   2:32:03change. Next one's on your.

   2:32:10A change from A five point five six to A grade two percent change. So no substitute ever won't be a few years.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:32:17M Mr Solomon, can I can I ask you a question? Who came up with these qu Who came up with these questions that you asked that you surveyed?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:32:25We did these, these were developed by myself and a professor colleague at the University of Rhode Island, you know, and used by the tool survey must be sent to over to every email address of the largest association, which is the South Road Sort of.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:32:50Okay, so so it was primarily you were the drafter of these questions then? Primarily you? Okay. Yes sir.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:33:00So again, this one in 85 and a half with 83. Next one, please, Sonia, question seven.

   2:33:11This deals with the irrigation system that went from 91 to 89. That's completely summer.

   Connected City

   2:33:18Mr. Sullivan, really quickly as well. Um I'm seeing approximately two hundred and eighty people answered uh these questions. What percentage of that is is that of the people that were Survey.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:33:32If you look at 280 responses, but we have over 50 in the

   Connected City

   2:33:44So my question was how many people were surveyed in total?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:33:48It was sent to 430 email addresses.

   Connected City

   2:33:54Thank you.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:33:55But I think what he's saying or what I thought of him these are the investor owned hotel units. These are not Residents of Saddlebrook. Right. I just want to make sure we're clear on the police survey.

   Connected City

   2:34:06And I wanted to see how many of those people responded versus how many it was sent

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:34:11to. There's also almost 200 owners in what's called the Lakeside Village, which is part of the Saboat Resort Combination Association. And so It is, as I said, the largest of all associations, all the significant investment.

   2:34:39My point is taking out the 50 common IP addresses, there's no substantive allocation in support of the agreement that we on the dossier will. Uh can can I think that was Mr. Mariano's suggestion that it could somehow alter up starts with different the outcome. Well if you were to look back to the first part of

   2:35:10the what I send you, I would appreciate it immensely. Block down a little bit. Okay, it didn't get through, but I will tell you uh members of the board, if you look at current revenues, this second quarter of this year is almost $1.2 million. A year ago is $894,000 for the same quarter. Two years ago in the last quarter of the Demonsey

   2:35:40owned. It was $328,000. So in a little more than a year and a half, or a little less than a year and a half ownership, that is return revenues to anything that exists, you know, beyond anything we've seen in ten years as investors in the

   2:36:07confidence any suggestion that Owners within the Walking Village, owners within the majority of owners within Walking Village, majority of owners within the lakeside are in support of NAFS plan because they're producing revenue and salt. And as one member of the board, I couldn't tell who was speaking, said this is a real investor that needs to help us. And I

   2:36:38would suggest that our investors truly understand the economies at scale. And the vast majority of people are going to rent

   2:36:53Mm-hmm. acquiring that scale. Thanks.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:37:05So

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:37:06respond to any questions.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:37:07So Mr. Sullivan, is it accurate to say that you support Mass's plans?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:37:13Uh I it is very accurate to say I support as they have been submitted and as they continue to be perfected.

   GirardiVice Chair

   2:37:23Okay, thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:37:24And my wife hold it unanimously to support that.

   GreyChair

   2:37:29Okay, thank you Mr. Sullivan, appreciate your effort.

   Chris Williams

   2:37:32So was that a yes? Yes, yeah.

   GreyChair

   2:37:35Okay. All right. Who would be next?

   Denise

   2:37:43Um that's the only one that I suggested that you please take on WebEx. If you want to continue on WebEx, we can do that. Or if you'd like to to hear from the folks around

   GreyChair

   2:37:51the audience. I prefer to hear from the people that drove here, took their time out to be here.

   Denise

   2:37:58Mm-hmm.

   GreyChair

   2:38:00So who would like to come up?

   2:38:11Close enough, huh?

   2:38:14Can I have your name and address please?

   Keith Swope

   2:38:16Yes, I'm Keith Swoke, other [address removed], and I have sworn. Um my wife and I originally bought the property in Sally Brooke, nineteen eighty, eighty one. Uh we bought our house there in nineteen eighty five. Hear me? We bought we bought our house there in nineteen eighty five. We bought our lot at Sally Brook, it was very small. Pretty quiet neighborhood with 18 holes of both. During the purch purchase We were told about the negotiations

   2:38:46with someone by and possibly put a resort in. I was a little bored about the traffic and the problems. I was told not to worry. Residents on the road. We own halfway the road. And there is a construction road that's there, not far from my house. I was told that would be Saddlebrook Road for all the condos to be using that road and they would not be using our road at all. What never happened. And it changed our lives. And not for the better. One

   2:39:17of the important things about living in Saddlebrook is peaceful, quiet lifestyle. As soon as you drive the front gate, you separate yourself from the freeway that's now Pive 54. It looks like we're going to get another change now and it's not for the better.

   2:39:36You've been shown the traffic problems in the front gate. And that's the problem is when the resort is empty. We'd been there when his work was full and he had something going on. and the traffic is so bad you can't get off of Highway 54. into the resort, it backs up 154. And then when it's over You can't get out. on on the fifty four and then maybe an hour to back up beyond there.

   2:40:05We live in the house at the end of the residential property that we are the last house on the golf course before Zelda starts. So we're way back in the back. It's been backed up at times where I could not get to my driveway. And I couldn't get out of my driveway. So when the Saddlebrook Resort is full and they have something going, traffic is not good already.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:40:28No one in it still.

   Keith Swope

   2:40:30In forty years we've gone from a quiet little neighborhood with zero traffic to resort to moderate traffic, whether you want it or not. And now we're rezoning. And that's it's not but we bought our house and we've moved there for it. I know there are people who kind of need to get out, need something done. But they're investment people. They don't live there. They're not part of it. They don't understand it. I just my question is Do we think what we're doing now is a good long-term solution? Do you really think they're putting a four-story apartment

   2:41:01complex in the front door with nothing but parking places? You ask why there's so much parking places? Because you've got four stories. You've had to have so many spaces. There's no way to do that. If you could back it down, we could probably live for it. They're talking about you couldn't put them on the east property because there was the access road on our property. But the access road's not going to be used. gonna be used for commercial. All this all those people are gonna be running in our light and our stuff.

   GreyChair

   2:41:30Okay. Thank you very much. Next who's the first one.

   Denise

   2:41:34Next person is Nancy Foster.

   GreyChair

   2:41:44Okay, Ms. Foster, do we have your name in the case?

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:41:46Hi. Nancy Foster, [address removed]. And I've been a resident of Pasco and work in Pasco since eighty-three. So I'm committed to this county. Uh I live in Saddlebrook. I live in the very first house. So let me show you where I live. This is where I live. This is where the gate is, and this is where they're moving the gate. My concern is that I am

   2:42:16so close that it will also change what I hear and what I see. So let me See if I get this. There we go. So th I am on Ainsworth, which will no longer be there when they develop this. They'll take away this road that's connecting, that's 290 feet away. And this is what my view will be. On the left, that's my view now. Quiet, serene. And then now I'm gonna have apartment dwellings

   2:42:47and everyone coming in and out of Sababrook. That's their last and their first vision as they come in.

   2:42:58This is where the gate will be. It'll be at the curve coming in, which is very near the road that I show you they will be taking out. So that means as people come in you have people waiting to get out or people waiting to get in, it's probably going to be some more congestion. In fact I have a video from December when there was something at Saddlebrook and the congestion went all the way from the gate all the way up as Keith said to his house and I have

   2:43:28actual video of that, bumper to bumper. Okay, what are the benefits of living next door to the Gulf Range now? Obviously the serene entrance you've heard about, manageable traffic flow. Can only hear the ping of the golf ball, which I love. listening to the sounds of nature, limited lit areas at night, Just very quiet. comforting, especially in this busy society we live in.

   2:43:56See you nine. That look at commands there.

   2:44:04What will change when the Gulf Range uh up front is gone? Well obviously a busy entrance. We know that MASC is now having another entrance, but we still have the condos that they want to build on the left side coming in, so that's more traffic. Uh you can only hear traffic noise. I'm worried about the delivery trucks. I do hear some coming on our main road, which are not supposed to use. Coming in. They're supposed to go over Ainsworth, the bumping and the noise of trucks coming in. Noise

   2:44:34from residents and visitors in that new area where they're building. We can't hear the sound of nature outside as much. It's going to be very well lit, obviously, so that's gone. No more quiet evenings. Restaurants are going to be open by midnight to one. We're going to hear obviously noises. I noticed you mentioned about the buffer. I think it's great coming in Saddlebrook. We need a buffer. After all, you know, I live close to it. Let me see if I can get back.

   2:45:09It's not gonna go back to my There we go. Um I notice when you get back here and you see where I live it changes a lot for being being this close. Do we really need that many apartments? Is there a way it can be designed so it's more compatible with the resort? So that this is like a whole different way of different from the resort itself. It's busy, it's congested. Is there a way to make it so

   2:45:39that it's more compatible and agreeable when you come in with more green spaces and And so that flows better. I see it sort of like here is like this all this commercial area and then all of a sudden you're in the serene area. Is there a possibility, is this the only answer to that particular property?

   2:46:00Thank you.

   Christopher Poole

   2:46:05The master plan is different now.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:08Yes, it is.

   Christopher Poole

   2:46:10Okay. So there is more buffering. It looks like on the current master plan that they're showing there's a lake, a pond there's all kinds of landscape buffering. Building buildings have been that building is is gone now. Actually two two of the buildings I think are gone. So I just wanted to point that out. It sounds like they are listening to you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:31Yes, they are. I just it just seems this was the only thing presented to us.

   Alan Thunberg

   2:46:36Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:46:36And I feel that it it would help if, you know, like i in working to kind of come to a decision of is there a way we don't have to have it as congested, we get a work re so it's more compatible to the neighborhood would be nice. After all you know it's a legend worldwide and people visiting, I'd like them to see enjoy that property as much as they have enjoyed it as a driving range. Okay, thank you.

   GreyChair

   2:47:02Okay. Thank you very much.

   Denise

   2:47:05Next person is Alan Thunberg.

   Alan Thunberg

   2:47:13My name is Alan Thunberg. I live at [address removed]. Uh Barbara and I have lived there since 2002. Our community depends on a healthy and profitable Saddlebrook resort. We are counting on Mast to return the resort to profitability. Most Saddlebrook residents recognize the importance of the commitments that Mast has made. to preserve the golf courses.

   2:47:44for the long term. both as golf and open space, to keep golf and racket sports as centerpieces of our community. and to continue to provide a home for the the academies that train our young athletes. Mass proposal is not perfect. We agree with the coalition that the density plan for area one is excessive. We note, however, that Mast has agreed to develop Vision Road H. And We know

   2:48:15that they are working with the residents to reduce To reduce the problems associated with area one. We are confident that they will continue discussions to reduce density and ameliorate the traffic problems. We agree with Chairman Gray that the biggest risk facing Our community at this point. is that This application would not be approved

   2:48:45and that Mast would decide to take its money and go elsewhere.

   2:48:52We have done our own risk-benefit analyses and we conclude that you should approve this application. We are confident that MASP will continue to work with Saddlebrook residents. and with Pasco planning and development to resolve the problems that still remain. We are pleased to see that the position of the Safe Saddlebridge Coalition has evolved. We are close to what I believe should be an easy agreement. It should be far easier

   2:49:23to bring these two groups together than to merge two professional golf tours. Thank you.

   GreyChair

   2:49:31Thank you very much.

   Denise

   2:49:34Mr Andrew Pines is the next person and he's been granted five minutes. That's fine.

   Andrew Pines

   2:49:45I think uh just bring up the PowerPoint.

   GreyChair

   2:49:56You'd state your name and address.

   2:50:02We just need to make sure we get it on the recording.

   2:50:06Um

   Andrew Pines

   2:50:06Andrew Pines, I live at [address removed]

   2:50:08[address removed]

   2:50:08[address removed]. And I think it's warning.

   2:50:27Thank you for this opportunity to come speak to you. I have kinda two different areas I'd like to talk on. One just real briefly on the on the traffic problems and then also uh frustration as a resident, condo owner, member, HOA board member and someone who's been involved with the discussions uh negotiations with masks. I've been very involved. I've only been in this county for a year but uh it's been a fun Um Again, this came to me. It shows that there's

   2:50:57you know tons of new development already underway. Uh from what I my understanding is the 54 from the surve uh the reports that have come out, it's there's already concern of it failing. That the new development, which there's 7,000 new units just in and around the Wesley Chapel area, uh there with 24 different multifamily complexes, eight of them are right in our little corridor that take advantage of the 54 with 2300 units, and that that was not factored into the report

   2:51:28and the concern of the the failing uh 54. This is before the 500 additional units that they're proposing in this plan. Uh much less additional success from the resort traffic that uh my uh other folks have talked about. I'm gonna try not to repeat too much here but again this is my experience today. I don't feel adding another lane is really going to solve the problem. Uh because we're talking about doubling the number of residents that's in Satterbrook. The number of units that they're proposing

   2:51:58is more than all of the residents combined today, uh plus all of the commercial traffic. It's just gonna continue to be a problem. One additional lane I don't think is gonna solve this and the fifty four. My trick now is I have to turn right and then do a UE and just to just 'cause I miss the light all the time here. Um again I'm not going to I I think there's definitely safety and usability issues that are of concern. This is the stuff that's happening until they really build the vision road and

   2:52:28reroute everything. This is coming right into our community. I think there's gonna be tons of problems as as they move forward. So there's internal breakdowns and turning right here. This is an old map but the bottom line is bringing here and turning right before they put in a uh light and keep going is gonna create all kinds of additional congestion, all kinds of problems and ultimately anybody that knows is ultimately gonna come use the wishbone so they can turn uh left and go towards the 75 which is where most people are gonna go. I

   2:52:59don't wanna keep talking too much about this. Um I created a video, I don't it's not gonna play here just to show you. But at the end of the day, there's all kinds of problems and I'm not gonna do it. I want to switch over to my frustration as a resident. Um after being involved with discussions for them for quite some time, um it's disappointing that after months of speaking with Mast in good faith about the density concerns and after uh Commissioner Weightman and the

   2:53:30others Uh And my understanding was on the record that they insist that we discuss the density and work on lowering the density and create a win-win around that. That Mast hasn't removed one door from their plan and they're still adding these four hundred and sixty-five garden apartments, the current open space drive uh plus uh the thirty-five townhomes that are right in the forested area which is most visible in and out. It's gonna change the face of Saddlebrook having all these town homes right there in the front. Uh since last summer

   2:54:00And most recently as this last April, Mast has broken their commitment on at least three different occasions to provide us condo owners with a finished renovated condo to look at with upgrade and financing costs. Projected returns on investment, commencement dates, as well as details to their level of commitment to upgrade the resort. They can't just expect us to upgrade the rooms without it commitment. commitment and what they're gonna do to the resort. I don't feel the lobby, the the lobby

   2:54:30and the restaurant is sufficient enough in the resort given the level of commitment that us condo owners are are looking to do. Also uh Michael Sullivan created, I feel a very biased uh opinion and asked us to vote on something again without these details that have presented to us as condo owners. I think we deserved that. They want to wait until after they get approval. And uh unfortunately, uh, if they're successful, um if Mass is successful continuing to delay providing the condo owners the cost upgrade until after they get approval with

   2:55:00the new development, they're in a position where they'll be able to change whatever charge whatever they want for the upgrades and financing, and the condo owners won't have any protection from the county. Meanwhile, we're being held hostage without a way for us to protect our investments. Mass significantly benefits. From the delays as owners who give up on the wait and are turning in their units to Mass for pennies on the dollar as Mass has the first right of refusal. The m the longer they wait and the worse the resort gets, the more units Mass gets to acquire for nothing. If I can have one last

   2:55:31point. The delays in the renovation will likely lead to lower property values for the condo owners and for possibly for the homeowners. The resort desperately needs updating, and the current linkage they proposed allows them too much room to continue to stall out any investment they make in the resort until they are far along with the new development in areas one and two. The condo owners and resort members deserve to stop leading money and deserve. to be able to get a positive return on investment. Um, I'm begging you, you know, please, we need your support to provide more assurances

   2:56:01and stronger linkages, waiting to 351. I'd like to see it as uh before they get fine approval on their first one. to have the resort updated because like you said we are desperate for improvements. We need that investment and I request your help to to get us that final way before they get to continue to move forward for special approval, for new zoning, and to have extremely dense, you know, uh residence in the front of ra uh saddlebright. Thank you for your time.

   GreyChair

   2:56:31Thank you.

   Denise

   2:56:32Mr. Chair, that's the last person that I have signed up to speak who's physically here. I do have and and you can call to see if there's anyone else, but I do have Mr. Patrick Hogan who's on WebEx. Okay and that would be the last person I'm on WebEx for the

   GreyChair

   2:56:47wants to speak or no? No. That was the last one.

   Denise

   2:56:50That was the last person. So you may want to call to see if someone just got here late and didn't sign or has decided now that they want to speak.

   GreyChair

   2:56:58Okay.

   2:57:03See no one.

   Denise

   2:57:04Okay, so then we'll um we'll ask uh Mr. Patrick Hogan, please state your name and address for the record and whether you've been sworn.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   2:57:16Oh it's uh Patrick Oakman speaking and uh Miami's [address removed]. Unfortunately I haven't been score and I missed that portion of the meeting as I logged in a few minutes later. I missed that.

   GreyChair

   2:57:32Okay, well we're gonna sway you in right now then. You raise your right hand.

   Amy Heiler

   2:57:37Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth so help you God?

   GreyChair

   2:57:41I do.

   2:57:44Yeah.

   Patrick Hogan

   2:57:46Okay, go ahead. Thank you. Um if we could get uh w um we had we had the oh here we are here. Okay. Um What I what I uh want to talk to you about today is uh the impact of the redesign of the golf course on um on uh Fairway Village in particular. I'm a uh board member of uh of the Fairway Association in Fairway Village, and I'm also the board representative to the uh Safe Saddlebird Coalition.

   2:58:17Uh this uh map similar to this was put up earlier by uh by the people at Mast and I what I wanted to do was uh to go through quickly what the uh what the impact was. So I'll do that quickly just on the flow. So if you look at the map, you'll see that uh hole one down in the lower left-hand corner. That's uh similar to the so to the existing layout for Saddlebrook. So you play hole one and two. At that point, in order to get to hole three, after you've played hole two, you have to go out onto

   2:58:47Fairway Drive. And drive for approximately 90 seconds down to where you see hole three over in the middle of your screen there. So that's uh that's on a that's on a road that's already um that's the only in and out road for a fairway village. So on that road in addition to uh what you have with uh golf carts you've got a lot of other people that are using it which I'll go through here. So um once

   2:59:17you get down there you'll once you're done playing hole three you have to get back out onto Fairway Drive again and drive down to hole four, which is existing uh hole ten. You can see hole four, but where it comes down to down to intersect with fairway drive, that's where you have to get on it again. So again, you're engaging with with uh with existing traffic that is in the the the fair fairway village. The current there's a by way of explanation the current layout

   2:59:48um you cross the you cross only um fairway drive uh and other roads only three times in this existing one you have to cross it and you also have to to uh to uh

   3:00:04Yeah. After you're done playing hole four, you go around the loop, you play hole five, hole six, hole seven. then you are able to get back on a card path to get back to the start of hole eight and that's where you'll start just to the right of where the where the cursor is. But once you play hole eight in order to get back to hole nine you gotta get back on to Fairway Drive again. We could go up a couple of slides. I'd like to show you what what that well I've I've got us one more one more slide please. And you'll

   3:00:34see uh what what happens. There should be one more. Here we are. So you can see hole two on the left there and I used a red arrow. So where you jump onto Fairway Drive, you go down there, that's a ninety second drive. You get off at the red arrow, you play hole three. Hmm. Then you get up and then you have to go again and you go go further east and you get on to hole four. You have to get off again. You go around, make that loop, come back. Now we have the green arrows coming. Get back on Fairway

   3:01:05Drive to get back at the start of uh hole eight and then you get uh then once you're done hole eight you go back to nine. That's only in one of the nines. In one of the other nines, uh that's depicted by the purple arrows there. Uh you start in a different location. But if you see hole twenty two in the center of the screen, you have to go across Fairway Drive again. And that's at the same intersection where there's a side street, there's traffic coming off Hole Eight, there's traffic coming in from Fairway Drive,

   3:01:36and that is all happening in one area. To give you an idea of the impact, that's that could be as many as anywhere from 30 to 90 golf carts per hour, which is is a huge amount of traffic because you have to remember that the roads are also used by walk. and joggers and walkers with scrollers, dog walkers, vehicle traffic, golf course maintenance, and others. So it's it's and it's the only road in and out of our of our subdivision of our Fairway Village. So in conclusion, uh

   3:02:06to all this, I I'd just like to point out the the layout um and with all due respect to the designer, the layout isn't really it is will have a serious impact on the the residents of uh Fairway Village. And I think it's fairly convincing evidence that it's really that there's a safety issue here. With walkers and golf carts and everybody using a single road there, that the the proposed layout for the golf course is is

   3:02:36uh is an unsafe situation. So uh we just say that because this is an impact on the internal uh on the internal traffic pattern for Fort Way Village once the uh once the development starts and is in use up in uh area one. Thank you.

   Connected City

   3:02:55Okay, thank you very much. Mr Hogan, would you propose that um a construction of a cart path parallel to the Broad, would would that alleviate some of

   Patrick Hogan

   3:03:04those issues? I would say yes it would because uh right now that right now Fairway Drive is only a two-lane uh uh road. I don't know whether any of m most of you know that or not, and there's no sidewalks. So yes, that's uh in my in my view, that's that's probably the only alternative. And really any intersection with Fairway Drive should be a crossover, not a a get on and drive, uh the way the what they're proposing here.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:03:31Patrick, just real quick, um, I mean I I think this is just a draft routing plan. I mean I aren't those details that are gonna be worked out. I say finalize the routing. I mean I I can sit here and I can put numbers on the holes where you got eighteen holes where all you gotta do is drive across the street.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:03:47Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:03:48I mean I I think the numbers on here are arbitrary at this point. The only point I'm trying to make. I I

   Patrick Hogan

   3:03:53I I I I hope they are sir. Uh but I I just pointed out because we did ask for uh we we have uh sent a letter to Mast in this regard. And uh we've got uh with all due respect to them they they've said they've received the letter and that's all we've uh we've done sin up until this point. It's the only contact we've been able to to get.

   GreyChair

   3:04:14Okay. Once the applicant comes back up we'll get a response for you on that. Mm-hmm. The other thing I'd like to

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:04:21point out is that we're not going to be able Approving a golf course design is you're you're approving the only thing you're approving as it relates to the golf course is the commitment basically that's in note two on the Bindings Concept Plan which deals with the permitted uses that are allowed in the Gulf Course area. You're not approving any specific design. I understand the applicant has put up this design, but it's not This is not something you're approving. I just wanted to be clear about that.

   GreyChair

   3:04:53Okay. Good information. All right. Uh was there anyone else? Denise?

   Denise

   3:04:59That's all we've got.

   GreyChair

   3:05:01Okay. All right, Barbara.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:05:15I'm gonna have Steve Henry talk traffic with you and then we'll go on from there.

   GreyChair

   3:05:19Okay.

   Henry

   3:05:23Define Steve Henry. Uh address a couple of the the traffic uh questions. W one is the addressing the uh background traffic that was used in the analysis. I guess is what they're questioning. So what we did, your your code is very specific on how to address background traffic that's used in in these studies. Uh it's based on looking at the historical growth rate within three-year period. And then if that's less than 2%, using 2%. On 54%, so we use 2%. The

   3:05:54historical growth rate's about 1.6%. So we use 2%. On 54, when you look at that, that equates to quite a bit of traffic. In fact, when you look at the segment from Uh five eighty one to um uh Wiregrass Trans Boulevard, we're already adding over a thousand trips during the PM peak hour of additional background traffic growth over the time period in in this analysis. So we have taken that into consideration.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:06:19You say two percent is not two percent annually? Two percent annually, yes, correct. Okay. So it's every year you're at a two percent. Correct, yes, correct.

   GreyChair

   3:06:26Can will you specify what for for the the audience what you mean by background traffic?

   Henry

   3:06:31So background traffic is what we do is we what and and also as a set aside, we didn't even need to update the analysis, but we did w two reasons. One was we redid the counts based on the OFAPASS interchange opening up, so we got realistic counts. on five eighty one fifty four. Uh but then as far as what background traffic is, is that is taking existing counts that we did. And then you grow those up to the build out year to account for other developments that

   3:07:01are are that are in the area. We don't necessarily add specific each specific development, but what we do is we take the historical growth rate, we add that per year, and that then gives us a annual growth rate that we use to grow up the existing traffic to come up with what that future traffic will be. That was how many PMP hour trips? It was over a thousand.

   Moody

   3:07:23And If I had to translate that back to new units built in the area, roughly how many would that be?

   Henry

   3:07:31That would be roughly a a thousand single family, roughly probably two thousand opposed to two thousand townhome multifamily type uses. So that's per's like seven thousand. But that's perfect.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:07:48up per year.

   Henry

   3:07:50No, that was the that was the total for the

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:07:52total for a background.

   Henry

   3:07:53Okay. Okay.

   Connected City

   3:07:53What what build out year were you using? Uh twenty thirty five. Okay.

   Henry

   3:08:00Uh and but the the in in addition to that, what this project is doing is one building the Vision Road. So um uh you know the Wiregrass has the obligation in their development degree to build it from 581 to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard. There is no obligation for them to build it from Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard to 54. So there's nobody online or obligated to build that. So this project is going to build a segment of roadway that, you know, the reality

   3:08:30is maybe many, many years before that ever gets built. So that helps with a parallel facility to 54 that likely would not get built for many years if this project weren't to do it. And in addition to that, we are adding the additional lane at the intersection of Saddlebrook Way and 54, which will help the traffic. The reality is it will help the traffic. We're adding it'll make it a dual northbound left turn lane and a separate right turn lane. So from that standpoint and

   3:09:00from what we're looking at is overall with the roadway improvements, intersection improvements this this project is doing, it is a betterment to the overall transportation system than what is out there today, or what will be out there if this project weren't above.

   GreyChair

   3:09:16Okay, any other questions?

   Connected City

   3:09:19So um Safe Saddlebrook uh I guess they uh it looks like from the packet that we received from them that they had spoken with their own traffic um analysis person, Drew Rourke, uh with Alex Rourke Engineering. Um and they just brought up a couple of of issues. Um one they were saying that it doesn't take into account The traffic impacts of the multifamily in area B that's being proposed.

   3:09:49Um that's what they said. Is that correct?

   Henry

   3:09:53This analysis takes into consideration the entire development that we're proposing in both areas. In addition to that, what we also did is when we did the counts, the resort units were only about 30% occupied. So we then added the additional traffic, assuming that those were 100% occupied, in the background traffic. So we also added that into it, which isn't a requirement, but we added that in.

   Moody

   3:10:19Okay. But when you're looking at the level of service on the roadway, you're accounting for the reduction allowed by the code for Motor.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:10:30Well no, there there is no reduction in traffic. Well it's it's a I'll just say an allowable increase of traffic on the available roadway. I it it

   Henry

   3:10:43it accounts for the V C ratio to go from the volume of capacity ratio to go from one

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:10:49to one point two. Okay. Correct, yes. So that presumes we all buy that there'll be Yeah. Approximately twenty percent.

   Moody

   3:10:58Less trips generated because people will walk and bike.

   Henry

   3:11:02Well no, no again we well, but from from our when we do the analysis, we don't reduce the traffic.

   Moody

   3:11:08I understand that. What I'm saying is the reason that the code allows for the V to C ratio to exceed one and be one point two is the presumption is that there will be enough people that walk and bike between the proposed apartment units and the commercial that that impact to the roadway. Won't matter too much.

   Henry

   3:11:29Well and and and it's also a um encouragement to do more the live work, you know, uh multi-use type projects. So it's an incentive to do that type of development. But yes. There's incentive, but is it reality? I I think there there is a percentage of internal capture that will happen with the

   Moody

   3:11:51qu I believe there will be too. I'm not sure it's equivalent to twenty percent of the roadway

   3:11:57capacity, but

   Henry

   3:12:02Yeah, and and that's yeah, that that was the and and and the reality when you look at it, the intersection other than Five eighty one. and and uh fifty four. All of 'em operate with a V C ratio of less than one. and the roadway segments operate with a D C ratio less than one. The only one that doesn't is five eighty one and uh fifty four. And the reality is the improvements that we're doing, one is this bypass road that will help that situation. But in addition

   3:12:32to that, right now you you wire grass ranch boulevard doesn't go Seth. So once that opens up, that will help disperse some of that traffic. That's now has to the only way to get to the interstate is to go up five eighty one. This will help disperse some of that traffic. So when those two things happen, it's gonna help the overall transportation system in the area.

   GreyChair

   3:12:58Anything else for Steve? Thank you, Steve. Thank you. Okay, Barbara.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:13:09Thank you again for all of your time and patience. I hear about mass investment and so I want to take those three conditions and actually just break them down because we just look at them like they aren't anything. They're just words. Um

   3:13:26Whoops, let me go the other way.

   3:13:30But I just want to talk about them for a minute.

   3:13:38So think about it, what 27 says. It says you have to do a new golf course driving range and that goes with the new golf school facility. Up front. Investment. Then, before you can do anything in Area 1, you have to complete renovation of eighteen holes. That's in the six to ten million dollar range before we do anything in area one. Wait a minute. There's one more thing you have to do before you can do anything in area one. You gotta build the vision road. At least another three million dollars. So we're talking about ten million dollars before

   3:14:09we can do anything in area one. So To he to hear the commentary that we're not doing anything for tourism and we're violating the comp plan regarding tourism, we pr they're protecting the golf course areas forever. If that's not meeting the tourism goal. And your comprehensive plan? I don't know how we'll overmeet it because it's subs that is substantial amount of investment. Their investment is going to drive other the other investment. Um So I just wanted

   3:14:39us to break that down and kind of think about what that means. Regarding the three fifty one, you know, that doesn't even equal out to a percentage. If you did 300, it would be 60%, so at least it correlates to a percentage of the development of the residential units. So we we can do th you know, make that three hundred. I When I sit and listen to my team I've spent a gazillion hours with these guys and with the the the coalition group Timing this stuff out is tricky. And the worst thing I want to do is screw

   3:15:09it up, because then we'll have no investment. if we screw up the timing. When you're ten million dollars in before you can do anything in Area One It's not like they're not gonna complete it. But if I agree to something that screws up this timing so they can't start because they don't they're they're can't get their development program in order and their investment in order, we will have a done a disservice. So I'm I'm comfortable changing it to 300 because that is 60 percent it's because

   3:15:40I don't even know what the math is for 351. But I I'm very uncomfortable with continuing to To take the assumption that they're not investing and they're not committed and then continuing to ratchet this down to the extent that they won't invest, they can't invest. So I want us to be careful about that. And and and I know Jordan's gonna talk about this a little bit more, but this is just my perspective of meeting with this team and sitting in the conference room at Saddleburg and listening and listening and listening and listening. It's tricky to renovate a resort while

   3:16:10you keep it open. And so there's timing issues of doing that. And I just want I believe that they're they're not gonna do all those things and spend that ten million dollars up front and start commencing commencing and then not finish. But we have a condition that says what you have to finish and we have a linkage between development and area one. That's what we were asked to do. We were asked to do a linkage to make sure that development area one could get ahead and they would just actually vote what it what was said was they're just gonna do development area one and two and not do anything else. So

   3:16:40we created that linkage but then to try to ratchet down that linkage to the extent that we screw it up, I just don't want to do that to them because I will be a failure in my re in my view.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:16:50Barbara, can you oh go ahead. Uh

   Connected City

   3:16:52I

   3:16:52was

   3:16:53just gonna say for for the record I I agree with you that that linkage is great and that definitely sh shows they're putting their money where their mouth is. Um do you think it's possible to um for those three hundred and fifty one units or three hundred units as you're saying, is it you think it would be possible to put a target date on that?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:17:10It is very tricky to renovate a resort. I mean you're talking about completion of of of resort renovations that you have to time. You're talking about the

   Connected City

   3:17:20the development of area one, the construction of those three hundred and fifty one residential units in area one. So that's what one of the um residents had expressed concern over is that, you know, that could last years and years and they would like to at least see some idea for a target date. So I was wondering if it's possible to put a target date on that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:17:39Well what I can't say we I I don't feel comfortable doing anything just here uh because it's a lot of programming and I've they've gotta go through and and and do that. So um you know we

   Connected City

   3:17:51I'm not asking you to do it now. I'm

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:17:53just asking if

   Connected City

   3:17:53it's possible to come up with a target date.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:17:56I don't know. Um I don't know.

   GreyChair

   3:18:00It would seem to me that the um it would be in the interest of the developer to move that along as quickly as possible because i he he can't even get in the building inspection on his three hundred units until he gets that stuff done. To get all the renovation done. So for him to drag his feet would be it wouldn't make any sense to me.

   3:18:29Well we're talking about she's talking about

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:18:31three oh one would be the the number now.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:18:33The only thing I'm gonna caution the Planning Commission about dates, and I just fully understand why it says that on Brooklyn would prefer dates, but one thing that you all need to know is that there's a state law that says every time there's a state of emergency declared in the state of Florida, they can extend those dates by the duration of the state of emergency plus six months. And so Anytime we put a date in any of our approvals, it's effectively meaningless. Because this is not something the county ever did, this is something the state legislature did to us. So You

   3:19:04can put a date in there, but I'm just telling you, every time there's a state of emergency they can extend it.

   Connected City

   3:19:09First hurricane.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:19:10We have we have we have M PDs that have been extended for ten years because of all the states of emergency. It can be a state of emergency on the east coast of Florida when our dates still get extended. So it's the dates end up being They might feel good to save Saddler Book to have a date in there, but again, through no fault of the county, it's very difficult for us to enforce the dates.

   Moody

   3:19:31Barbara, what's magic about 300?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:19:35Well again as it was explained, well it's sixty percent of the units and as y you're trying to balance it. And you're trying to create a balance and saying, okay, can't we have to create a number that there's still units left. We're at five hundred are the number of units for area one. So it's sixty percent of the units. So you pro you create it so that you can't get past a certain point without finishing these things. Well yeah,

   Moody

   3:19:58so I understand that. Why not a hundred years?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:20:03Because again it's not suggesting it should be a hundred.

   Moody

   3:20:05I'm just saying

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:20:05that it's

   3:20:05a good thing.

   3:20:06Again, if you make it if you make it so that they can't invest because you've got it so strict then you you defeat the purpose of I mean in the end of the day it was a linkage. It was what it was was said was they don't there's stuff there's development in area one left that they can't get s so far until they do the renovation. And so that's what that linkage is. That's what it creates.

   Connected City

   3:20:30I'm assuming that that way you've developed enough of the resort to to generate the revenue to be able to do the renovations on the or you've developed enough of those units to be able to

   3:20:43do that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:20:44Um as far as the the whole discussion about the the third party um resort owner units, that discussion came up last week. It was never raised in any of our coalition meetings. So we're working at that. You you saw that I had language that I've actually been talking to Dave Engel about, we actually sent it to him, um, that I read from and so We understand that issue. We have a finding of fact regarding it. It's well it's We

   3:21:15like I say, we understand it and we're working on it and um in good faith and we'll and we'll continue to work on that. We we believe that the investment that that saddle that mass capital makes will make these folks want to renovate. They are investors as has been stated. They're it's actually a securities which is kind of interesting about these there that is a registered security. Those aren't there aren't homes, those are securities. So they're investors and their motivation is return on investment. And there's no better way to get them to to um invest

   3:21:46than to make sure Mass investing. And I just went through and told you how we're making sure that Mass's invest investing right there. So we'll we'll work on that. Um The other thing is like the sidewalk in front of the school, I w I was kinda surprised that was said because I went through and explained that the condition thirty-one i is a new multi-use path that goes right in front of that school. And that has to be done, there's a timing for that in condition thirty-one.

   3:22:17I'm not sure.

   School District Representative

   3:22:17Barbara, that's a private school. I mean I think people need to know that. It's not a public school.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:22:22Oh right, right. Yes, it's it's part of the tennis and golf academy facilities. The other thing is is I don't want to underestimate, you know, Mr. Swoke what he said about Fox Hunt Drive. When I came to the county in 1996, the first assignment that I had on my desk, the first, was the concern of the residents on Fox Hunt Drive regarding the resort traffic. We had no solution in 1996. But I'm telling you, with this project we do. that secondary access so that when you do have resort we've been at the resort, you know, we've

   3:22:52we've all been to the resort at different times and um went to to um events there. That secondary access, everybody can go out of that access, doesn't exist today. So It's a pretty major step forward that I wasn't able to solve in nineteen ninety six when I first came to the county and um sat in the chair there. But this project does does do that. So I'm gonna let Jordan talk to you. He has he really knows what he's talking about. I just can tell you my perspectives after working on this so long. Um

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:23:21Barbara, is Jordan gonna address the issue of because there was a lot of comments made about a rear one. And I heard two requests. One was to I think the request was either to decrease the density or make it look greener, you know add more landscaping.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:23:38So yes, like

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:23:39so I guess I know your position on the density, but I guess I have not heard your position on helping with landscaping.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:23:46Well mudderum Mudderum is your code and we're complying with your code and it has open space requirement in it, it's got neighborhood park requirement in it. So we're taking your code and saying we're going to comply with that. That is the tool that we use, the county uses to create these places. And we intend to use that code.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:24:11Yeah.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:24:13I guess the question though is I think their comment is that there's a certain green feel to when you drive in and that when you see the sea of parking I and I'll let Brad come up and say how much landscaping is or is not required under Mutterham, but Uh I suspect what they're looking for is you can't reduce the density. They're probably looking for some commit more meaningful commitment on Landscaping. Yeah, the the

   3:24:44the look and feel of the

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:24:46Well you can't see that I mean they're the concept plan does have quite

   3:24:52Quite a bit of green buffering. Very intentional. buffering put on that con binding concept plan that'll have to be implemented obviously a construction plan staff level but I I wouldn't say that what's depicted there is anything but pretty significant. Member and the other thing is is this is their front door as well. So And that should have to quantify it. uh at this point, but between having Mutterum which talks about how we design this, a binding concept plan that shows that amount

   3:25:22of landscaping, buffering, um

   3:25:27And the fact that it's our front door as well.

   Moody

   3:25:33parking ratio that's required for the park for the apartment.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:25:39So the county code is 2.25 spaces per unit. Um a lot of people do 1.9 as an alternative standard. But we really don't have a code provision for mixed use, so we we have to study that when we do the mixed use product and come up with the right parking ratio. And 'cause you've got shared parking, so we st that's gotta be studied. The county doesn't have a moderate parking standard.

   Connected City

   3:26:09Do you know how many do you know how many spaces are in this uh concept?

   3:26:15It's gotta be nine hundred or so. Yeah, yeah.

   Saez

   3:26:20I just wanted to reiterate that we haven't we aren't at site plan yet. This is this is still a concept. So um to answer David's questions regarding landscaping, um you know Mudderum requires a certain amount of ability to get from place to place, which can impact landscaping to some extent, but it does not necessarily require additional landscaping. Um that could be something they voluntarily agreed to. Again, we couldn't give you details on what that landscape would be until we're closer to the site plan

   3:26:50stage and we know exactly how all these pieces will will actually kind of inter interwork. So it's it's very early to really kind of get into too much detail on that.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:27:00Well I guess let me ask you and Barbara a question, 'cause this is the binding concept plan H is is what's shown on this plan Allowed by Motorum? In your opinion, Bro?

   Saez

   3:27:16In my opinion, it likely is. Um the thing is that uh you know you're not seeing a true depiction of the actual number of trees or number of plants or things like that that are gonna show up on an actual landscape plan. Uh you know, you have different tree canopy sizes, different heights, different understory uh landscaping and shrubbery and all kinds of stuff that puts in there. So you know there may be where you see something that looks like one tree here they may be a hundred different lanes.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:27:41I

   3:27:41mean

   3:27:41just for I mean I guess what I'll I'll just give you one example. So like if you're driving on Saddleburg Way You know, are the residents gonna have to look at the back of those town home units without any meaningful landscape oper I mean I I can't tell from this plan Like I I don't know if that level detail gets to whether site plan approval or you're gonna look at this and say, Well, you've gotta have at least ten trees between Saddlebrook Way and the back of the town hall. So I I'm trying to figure out how this is gonna work in practice.

   Saez

   3:28:12Right. So it this would be something that the applicant can agree to do something above and beyond if they so choose. Um or we would look at the code or if there's a specific condition applied by or recommended by this board or this committee to uh the board for approval um to put some sort of an increase there, we would enforce that as well. Otherwise we would basically be going by Yeah code.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:28:37So so you don't view the number so you don't view the number of trees shown on this plant as being binding in any way?

   Saez

   3:28:45Correct. I don't know that it's to scale. I don't know that it would show any of that. So but yes. The concept plan theory just shows us what was what's expected. The intent.

   Moody

   3:28:57Correct. I'm glad you brought up back at the townhouse units though. Which Barbara I want to ask a question because there was no variation requested. This has to do with condition forty nine. That the landscape buffers on the exterior of the MPUD boundary are to be located within easement and can be counted toward the minimum setback requirements. Well, so the rear setback on the town homes is ten feet. And my question was what

   3:29:27was the landscape buffer with that's required back there since we're gonna have in the exterior residential against residential.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:29:37So I would like to delete condition forty nine. I did a really bad job writing that. So I'm not even sure what that means because those those are lots. And so and we don't put buffers in lots, we put buffers in tracks. So I did a really bad job with that. Um so I'd like to delete that and put that on the record and if you make a motion I'd like to conclude that. Um I'd also I'd answer your question, the the landscape buffers are fifteen feet and the setback written here um is ten feet, so be

   3:30:07twenty five feet.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:30:08That's residential to residential right to put on the So they'll

   Moody

   3:30:12be and so they'll be twenty-five feet from the my concern is that we have an area and I'm more concerned about area two. We're backing up well actually in area one as well. You're backing up to some nice estate residential in area one and you're backing up to AR properties in area. Area two and that condition would have intended you know would have implied that there might have only been a ten foot setback to those lots. But twenty

   3:30:42five seems a bit more reasonable.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:30:44Yes, that I will thank you for pointing out that terribly written condition. And if we need to work on language um in between now and the board, our our intent is to have enhanced landscaping. Um that's what that plan, that's why it has all those trees and planting on it. But if we need to work on something well certainly,

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:31:05so I mean to to go back to my example, if you're driving in South Brookway, what will you s where those town homes are on the east side, what will you see? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:31:15Aaron, that would be you.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:31:18Because I see a possibility you're looking into the backyard of people's homes without any meaningful buffer. But I I can't tell because I don't know how binding that

   Moody

   3:31:27Well can I Sorry to interrupt you. If we were doing let's say we were designing a big MPUD, we had a main road in, what would happen is there's generally a wall that separates those main roadways from those development pods. I'm thinking of River Crossing Boulevard being one. It was a wall.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:32:04Maybe, but I don't know that there's anything in these MP conditions that requires what you just said.

   Moody

   3:32:08Well, that's why we're talking about it, so that's a good thing.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:32:11So I I don't And I'm not hearing that Mutterum necessarily requires a wall there. It does not. So

   3:32:22You know. I'm just posing the question because it's the most obvious example of residents potentially looking at

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:32:31Yeah, I think personally I think both sides of Saddlebrook Way need to be protected and I think there needs to be some type of condition in there requiring some type of buffer, whatever that may be. And I frankly I don't I don't know that there's a buffer that exists in the County Code that that specifies what everybody's looking for. Wouldn't we

   Moody

   3:32:49be like a one of the right away buffers, Brad, that might be applicable to that?

   Saez

   3:32:54So in a situation like this you would look at it compared to the use across the street. But the in in this particular case I do want everybody to realize that that you know, I know you mentioned walls and things like that. Walls walls create their own type of ugliness, so to speak. So it's plants and lush landscaping in the appropriate places tend to be the better option there. Um, you know, again if it depends on the the scenario and what happens, but um If if walls are something that you guys want, um, you know, is it

   3:33:24a masonry wall, is it a fence?

   Moody

   3:33:26I don't want to make the I don't want to leave you with the presumption that I'm intending to make some sort of motion to add a wall. I'm with Jamie in that there needs to be some buffering. I hear this from the Saddlebrook residents that there's a concern. About the entryway and preserving some of the openness of that entryway. I actually think a wall might kind of close that off. Right. It can also

   Saez

   3:33:53impact trees.

   Moody

   3:33:54I think what we're looking at or tell me guys if I'm headed the right way is maybe some kind of minimum setback from Saddles Brook Way to where parking and construction can be so that there is this sense of openness along the boulevard.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:34:12I'm not sure a setback solves the problem because a setback could be devoid of trees.

   Christopher Poole

   3:34:18I think it's the idea of there's there's plenty of space within that site plan to possibly shift it oh we lost the site plan.

   Denise

   3:34:26We're gonna bring up the c we're gonna bring up the c binding concept plan because it does call out that there's gonna be six foot fences. Yeah but

   3:34:35I'm just letting it I think

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:34:37what we should do is is agree to a condition.

   Moody

   3:34:42Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:34:43think we should agree to a condition that we have to to prepare an enhance landscape detail. a minimum enhance land safe detail, force out of our way, work with staff and just make that a condition and we'll we'll go do it. And just and let 'em let 'em. We view it and see it and we'll prepare it and our team will prepare it. 'Cause it can be prepared. We can do it.

   GreyChair

   3:35:11Yeah, I mean yeah, I think those are important things. I think they can be worked out. I think I would hate to um I deny the application based on the fact that y w we can't work out these few items.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:35:25Yeah me. C can we make a motion today to Give them conditions that they address certain things in before the board meeting?

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:35:35Yes, I don't know that you have to craft the exact I think you can you can generally say what you're looking for in terms of conditions

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:35:43without 'cause well I mean we talked about the timing of the completion of the stuff. They there was some stuff that they wanted to consider and discuss internally before they went to the board. Um this landscape buffer and w whatever kind of landscaping. I mean to me I think it's keeping it as natural looking as possible to me a wall does not do that for Saddlebrook Wayne. Yeah,

   Moody

   3:35:58I

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:35:58it's more along the lines of some enhanced landscaping.

   Moody

   3:36:02Right. There's some s I think the residents need some solution to make sure that there's a broad corridor for Silent Brook Way that is lush like they currently have. And I know we saw some pretty renderings and I don't doubt that they will wanna make Saddlebrook Way landscaped in a lush manner. That is the entrance to their resort. I believe that they'll do that. I think we just have to get s A little bit more than what's near.

   Christopher Poole

   3:36:32Yeah, I think that there's a bunch of water examples that's shown on that site plan. I mean the the retention down in that south what that be the southwest corner for example. I mean could that be shifted up? I mean they're just ideas and understanding that we're not at site plan, but we have been provided with this. So it's an

   GreyChair

   3:36:47aerial of what it is to do with water.

   School District Representative

   3:36:50Yeah, I

   3:36:51was

   3:36:51gonna mention that 'cause I'm looking at aerial.

   Moody

   3:36:54I understand there's a big drive range there. Jamie.

   GreyChair

   3:36:58I

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:36:58I think were you John, were you guys looking at something?

   GreyChair

   3:37:01Oh, I'm sorry.

   3:37:04John are you saying something looking at something?

   Moody

   3:37:06We I had asked if we could see an aerial photograph of what it what the roadway looked like today. Just the road.

   School District Representative

   3:37:16I was gonna say I'm looking at it right now on my computer, but it's it's it might be an idea just to leave it uh to the extent possible, 'cause there's a lot of trees there right now. And I think you could leave it and then still develop behind it.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:37:28Little street view.

   3:37:31Well again let us create the require us to create the landscape detail and and have staff approve it. You know, with us, work with us. And I think on both sides of Howard Way that's the way to condition it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:37:43Yeah, Barbara.

   3:37:47The renovation of the the rental units, whatever they're called. I guess Can you confirm again? I I think I remember from last time when we talked about this during the Land News hearing but Are are all those units all in one pool and they all split the rentals?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:38:02I am definitely gonna turn this over to Jordan.

   GreyChair

   3:38:05Yeah, we're Doctor. Before we get to that issue, I have one more question for Barbara.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:38:12Barbara, um one thing I noticed on the concept plan is in area two Yeah, job of it. It you have a you have an L D C variation to not interconnect to the east or west, but but if you look at the actual graphic, it looks like you have interconnects to the east and wests. So how quite confusing, huh? So what is your intent?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:38:35Right hand doesn't know what they're doing. Um so either the

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:38:37lawyer doesn't know what they're doing or the planner doesn't know what they're doing.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:38:41I'll take responsibility.

   3:38:49So let me see. So yes, I wrote the variations 'cause they're platted. Um and so we can fix the concept plan. But I I do note that when I was going through this yesterday 'cause this was pointed out to me, my error in my ways here, We did look at area two, development area two, um to the east, and there is a dentist office, the two Lots coming down from fifty-four on that east side of development area two. It's a dentist office. They're both owned

   3:39:19by a dentist. Dentist office and then Stuff related to his dentist's office, whether it's pond or whatever. So And then uh perhaps that connection or at least the the future stub out for that probably makes sense. So I probably need to bury my variation and just leave that one. The one to the west makes no sense. That's a plated residential lot. So I did do that research of what's adjacent. But I think it makes sense to vary my variation and and keep the one to the east, especially 'cause that's could be a future to a light. Right?

   3:39:50So uh I'd like to on the record here bury my variation, keep the bury my variation and keep the connection to the east

   3:40:01On development area two.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:40:03So you're gonna modify your binding plans and not show one to the west anymore?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:08Yes.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:40:10Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:11And I'm going to change my variation narrative with staff to take out the one.

   Moody

   3:40:15Thank you for the street view of that. I mean it looks to me like if they were to keep twenty or thirty feet to either side of the street lushly landscaped, that would preserve a nice open corridor or into the entrance without wasting all the land.

   School District Representative

   3:40:34And he can't go any further because the Google car won't get it past the gate.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:40:38That's we gotta keep the riff range on Yeah, I think Jordan was gonna answer my question. Oh Jordan.

   Connected City

   3:40:46So to clarify you're proposing deleting the connection from the new to the w to the west there to to Saddlebrook Way.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:54Oh. On Saddlebrook Will.

   Connected City

   3:40:56Oh I'm sorry.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:59The connection conversation was a filler conversation while you guys were pulling this stuff up. Gotcha. I know the answer, but I'm not

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:41:09Thank you. I'll appreciate all the time you're taking. So to your question, so it is structured as a rental pool, which means all which is why it's a registered security and investment property, as Barbara's saying, to own in there you need to be an accredited investor, annual income above three hundred thousand net worth of a million dollars. All of the revenue is shared. So whether your unit's sold, somebody else's unit is sold, um, that revenue is then In a pool and everybody gets their share of that distribution out of it. Uh which means our units, if

   3:41:39we were to renovate first, everybody would just benefit from any uplift we get from that, right? Uh because a renovated unit generates more revenue, that's ultimately shared amongst everybody. Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:41:50Yeah, I mean that that's kind of where I that's what I thought I remembered. I just w what makes me nervous if if I'm on you guys' side is you you have no assurance that the private owners are going to renovate their units.

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:41:59So obviously that's something we spent a lot of time on, right? We've owned these before. We know these. There's been three renovations historically at Saddlebrook. The last one was, you know, 2002-2004 range. Um order of magnitude wise, actually if you take an inflation of today's dollar, it's gonna be about the same size renovation that we're planning to do, and everybody invested. There's a handful of unit owners. That ultimately don't renovate, those units get sold, and somebody else does with the renovation. But there's been three renovations in Saddleburgh's

   3:42:30history, and in all of them, the pool has been maintained and people are renovated. And and I think the other thing too is you heard from the president of the board of the resort association, and you saw the survey of his constituents. Overwhelmingly, the condo hotel unit owners understand. The need for renovation here. Frankly, they were pushing for it when Tom Dempsey owned the property. The reason they didn't do it is they also understood if all they did was renovate their units and the common areas didn't get renovated, that

   3:43:00didn't make sense. And Tom Dempsey was unwilling to commit to renovating the common areas. And we've committed to the owners in our meetings that ultimately what we send them to ask them to renovate their units. will include a condition that binds us to renovate ours. Because it's unreasonable for us to say, sure, hey by the way, sign up and renovate, but we're not going to commit to renovate our part, so you might be left hanging. We're we're not going to allow that to happen.

   Connected City

   3:43:24I is the plan to I know you've probably provided a concept of the of the renovation already to the owners. So I I know one person asked about a model. Um so is there a plan to

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:43:37So as of today, uh there's actually furniture starting to arrive on property for those model rooms. Uh you know, we've provided initial estimates actually anybody during our ownership who's bought a condo hotel unit has been pro they you have to find a disclosure to say you're an accredit investor. In that we've we've included an estimated sixty thousand dollar renovation in there. Only I think only sixteen units in Sold in our ownership period and values have doubled. So the idea that we're doing something to depress value of units, buy a bunch of units, you

   3:44:07know, harm other people, it is no secret. We are losing money hand over fist on this resort. We've also invested five million last year. We're planning to invest another five million this year. So when Barbara was talking about the size of investment. That wasn't including the ten million that we're already putting into the resort. tripling revenues as as Michael was speaking about. So yes, I mean we we we are we are doing all of those things and making all those commitments and the model room we've committed to all the people the owners in the condo program

   3:44:37that in the second quarter we will provide the room renovation plans and costs. We are still in it we're in June, second we're still in the second quarter and that's still the goal we're working towards We're just finalizing the numbers. It's it's a very it's a lot of property, and every space, every bit of it needs renovation. You know, unfortunately, we did not inherit a property that we could sort of do part of and part of it's in good condition. It's been way too long since it's seen investment, and

   3:45:07it's a lot of property, a lot of square footage, a lot of coordination. And frankly, just a lot of planning given just the amount of space that we ultimately need to renovate.

   Connected City

   3:45:17And then what what finance options are there for the owners to do those renovations?

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:45:21So we are working, we're talking to banks on their behalf, we're working internally in terms of seeing what a financing option we can do. I will tell you in my history ultimately, like Innisburg, for example, they offered a financing option to owners. Nobody took it. Um you know, in Saddlebrook's past, I think there was a financing option one time, I think twenty to thirty percent of owners ultimately took the financing option, seventy to eighty percent ultimately renovated without the financing option. So we're working to do it. We

   3:45:51we're aligned, right? We we want these owners to renovate, we want the resort to maintain its keys, um, so we're aligned to helping them as best we can and making sure We can come up with financing options, we don't have that finalized yet. And the financing markets, as you know, uh sure I'm sure are are not stellar right now.

   Chris Williams

   3:46:10Okay.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:46:10Any other questions? Yeah. So I made a list of at least six issues that need to be addressed when whoever's making the motion, but I don't know. Make sure I says Barbara, the list I have is and anybody weigh in if I miss something. Okay. Um that we need to add a condition to deal with the renovation plan for the investor owned units. Um we need to reduce the number of units in Condition number twenty nine from three fifty one to three

   3:46:40oh one. Did I get that condition number right? Um modify the LDC variation for area two, the eastern side, basically eliminate that variation for the eastern connection because you are going to provide an interconnect. Modify the concept plan for area two so that you don't show an interconnect to the west anymore, consistent with your LDC variation.

   3:47:08Add a vertical mixed use commitment to the area one. concept plan or in the conditions. I'm not sure where you're gonna add that, but there's gotta be some vertical mixed use commitment added. And then adding an enhanced landscaping plan condition alongside way. Did I miss anything? David had her deleting condition forty nine, yeah.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:47:34I had a list too.

   3:47:37Yes, we're

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:47:38agreeable tolerance. But did I did I miss first of all did I miss anything? That was the only thing I saw.

   Denise

   3:47:46Mr. Chair, I I I do have one housekeeping item and I apologize. There are some ex parte communic ex party communications. Um we have one from John Moody and one from Peter or two from Peter Hansel. Um I believe that uh those have been submitted to the clerk's office. The clerk just reminded me to state that for the record. Okay. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:48:06And I'll uh just for disclosure, I did meet with Barbara too, so Yeah, I I

   Christopher Poole

   3:48:10I did too as well. With Barbara and her team.

   GreyChair

   3:48:14I didn't. I I'm really you know, I'm you're hurt? I'm hurt. Me too.

   3:48:24And I'm changing my

   Connected City

   3:48:24vote. Reached out to me too, but I was out of the country.

   Chris Williams

   3:48:30This is a tough group. I'd like to make a motion to

   School District Representative

   3:48:32Chuck to make you feel good, I didn't either

   Chris Williams

   3:48:33approve this particular project. But excuse me. And that's with the seven modifications we just

   3:48:44make one comment if I may. I I took out the letter from January fourth, twenty twenty two. that uh Mr. Dempsey uh had authored to the county. And he talked about how he loved this place and d that's not his words. Those are my words from what he read here. By the way, I think his son-in-law is out there too. and he said that Saddlebrook is a A major contribution to the local community and to the Pasco County. Pasco County is my words. But I also want to indicate

   3:49:14that he believed the new owner, Mass Capital. And the reason I want to emphasize this is that it was brought up by the chair. That

   3:49:24A company That has the financial resources to make the modifications that we've suggested, to make the improvements, to make the place uh a what it was in the past and what it will become in the in the future. And I strongly would encourage us as board members to go back and look in your packet and and look at the letter he wrote. Because what he wrote here and what I read through it is that he He's he's putting his legacy on the block with his company. And that's

   3:49:54what I saw. A legacy is the most important thing that I think a human being can leave.

   3:50:00when they m move forward into their next life. But uh so therefore that's what the motion is and I hope that uh we all vote in favor of it.

   Connected City

   3:50:12Okay,

   GreyChair

   3:50:12so we have a motion on the floor.

   Connected City

   3:50:14I I'd second the motion too, and and the comment I would say is they're definitely proving that they're putting their money where their mouth is, and there's a lot of conditions that are tied to development of these residential properties that's tied to development of the uh or redevelopment of the resort. So uh I think that there's comments that were made in a previous meeting uh with Saddlebrook um by some some of the residents b with concern that uh perhaps they're going to just get this rezoned and flip it or something like that. And it doesn't it's it's apparent

   3:50:44to me that that's not the case, that they are really wanting to do the right thing and and really uh improve this property. So I'd I'd second that motion.

   GreyChair

   3:50:52So we have a motion and a second. Now we do have further discussion. I do

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:50:57have one discussion point. I guess then you know, when is the schedule to go to the board?

   3:51:04Currently.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:51:06July eleventh.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:51:08I guess my question for you, Barbara and Amy, is Are you gonna be able to address I mean some of these are just wording issues, but you know, creating the landscape plan, I mean th I some of these is that all gonna be able to be done by July eleventh and particularly I wanna make sure that we're not dumping it on the board and the residents at the last minute because They needed you know we we requested a lot of changes here and I don't I want to make sure everybody's had a chance to evaluate it the project with these

   3:51:38changes. My question to you is are you gonna be able to get that done by July eleventh?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:51:43Yes.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:51:45Bay, are you agreeing with that?

   Christopher Poole

   3:51:51She's cautiously walking up.

   Amy Heiler

   3:51:59Yes. At this point in time, yes, I believe we can uh work on these conditions before the July eleventh BCC hearing.

   GreyChair

   3:52:09Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:52:09I have nothing on my calendar next week 'cause I will be away so I can work on it.

   GreyChair

   3:52:15All right. So any any further discussions?

   Christopher Poole

   3:52:19No, but uh my only point is that you know thank thank Mass for the unprecedented sharing of information. I didn't have the pleasure of sitting through the comprehensive plan amendment that uh went uh so I I did get the fun of missing that one, but I'm here now. But I want to thank folks on both sides for taking the the time to actually kind of work through it. I think having Mass is a part When Pasco County is fantastic. I think it's um gonna put Saddlebrook, I mean Saddlebrook's already on the map, but it's really gonna put it back on the map. So I appreciate the

   3:52:49interaction and uh uh I I think it's gonna be a beautiful thing when it's done. So thank you on both sides.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:52:55Yeah, and I'll I'll add that, you know, um obviously at the comp plan hearing we we asked for a lot of non typical stuff and a lot of that non typical stuff and all the details seem to be addressed and be added into this zoning amendment. So I think kudos that Barbara, I don't know, thirty-two public hearing, neighborhood meetings, that that's probably the most I've ever heard. Yep. Um I mean I realize they weren't all together and everybody in one room, but I don't know. that that's even productive to have everybody all together. Sometimes there's certain groups that want to talk about certain things and then that's the way

   3:53:25you address it. So it's a good job by everybody and I'm glad everybody was able to come together. Again, it's a huge project, huge undertaking. Um but it is a it's a jewel in the county and and you know we we appreciate you guys all working together and hope we continue to do so moving forward.

   School District Representative

   3:53:42Uh I just want to add on too the remember the first thing that Barbara did, she went through the whole process. There was like three pages of meetings. And so to have all those meetings and have maybe ten people here show up, I think it it's testament to what they've done, the commitment they've made and all the things they've done. So

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:53:59So Barbara, the reason I brought up the timing issue is because when I heard Save Sower Book, the two big issues they had were the renovation of resort, which in theory should be cured by the condition dealing with how we're gonna deal with the investor-owned units. Um and possibly the reduction of the 351 to 301. But the other issue was there was area one and what I heard from them was. was either reduce the density or make it look better. That's what I kind of heard from you say. It sounds like Planning

   3:54:29Commission saying make it look better, which it sounds like you're willing to do with this enhanced landscaping. I do think it's important if you're gonna try to get them on board with you and holding hands at the board meeting, that they have a chance to see this enhanced landscaping plan that you have for Area One. So my hope is that you can go into the board meeting holding hands.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:54:51I would hope that too.

   GirardiVice Chair

   3:54:52So I think that's why it's important I think you get them the landscaping stuff as soon as possible. Amy, did you have something you wanted to do?

   GreyChair

   3:55:01Okay. You say something you wanna say something?

   Amy Heiler

   3:55:07Just uh real quick, that's okay. Uh Jane approached me. She did want to put something on record if possible as it related to the unit count. It's up to you though.

   GreyChair

   3:55:29Yeah, no, I think we're I think we've covered it. So let's we have a motion, we have a second, we have a discussion, let's move. Okay, so all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed like sign? Motion carries.

   School District Representative

   3:55:51One more asking? Okay. I think so.

2. 2Jul 11, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP68Public hearingApproved

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation including the revised Conditions submitted by Ms.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 4:04:24
   ▶ 4:04:241h 58m

   MarianoChair

   4:04:24Item P sixty eight.

   4:04:27We are proof.

   District Five Chairman

   4:04:28Wait, do you give me one secondly clip the page?

   Starkey

   4:04:34Okay, um P sixty eight was advertised in the Tampa Bay Times on May twenty-fourth, twenty twenty three, and by affidavit of site postings.

   Amy Heiler

   4:04:44All right, good afternoon. Amy Toll uh with Planning and Development. So the item that you are hearing now is the companion rezoning to the Saddlebrook Resort. Uh comprehensive plan amendment. Uh before we get started, I did send an email out and I was advised to uh seek or ask to just have it uh entered into record, please. So

   Jane Graham

   4:05:05what?

   Amy Heiler

   4:05:06The enter it into record. So the four documents that were sent via email just to make sure that they were received and entered.

   4:05:14or a motion to receive a line.

   MarianoChair

   4:05:16The the Gulf Coast layout one or which one?

   Amy Heiler

   4:05:18Um the four documents, the additional expertise, the additional emails, and then the changes to the we've got hard copies

   Starkey

   4:05:25here.

   Amy Heiler

   4:05:26Yeah, please. I think I think

   4:05:27that's right.

   4:05:27Yeah, the and then I sent the email out as well.

   MarianoChair

   4:05:29Okay.

   Amy Heiler

   4:05:32Move to receive and bell. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

   MarianoChair

   4:05:36In

   Weightman

   4:05:36the second? Second. This one we're looking at?

   Starkey

   4:05:40No, it was um

   Weightman

   4:05:43Oh.

   Amy Heiler

   4:05:44Yep. So it's uh the NPUD conditions of approval, yes ma'am. The ex parte, additional emails that were received within the last twenty-four to forty-eight hours. Um yeah, there were two packets, so sorry about that. Thanks, Commissioner Starkey. And uh there were four items and a visual for the intersection at Van Dyne.

   MarianoChair

   4:06:09Yeah, roll cobble.

   Starkey

   4:06:11District One, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford. District 5 Chairman Mariano.

   Amy Heiler

   4:06:23Thank you. Um okay, so the items that were just uh entered into record, there was a change in the conditions of approval last night, uh to speak to the intersection of Van Dyne, as well as an exhibit that goes alongside that. Um there are additional ex parte that were received since the last Planning Commission and the published and when the uh seven eleven agenda was published and then additional Emails in support for the proposal entered into record as well within

   4:06:53the last 24 to 48 hours that were received. So the MPUD you're hearing now is a proposed rezoning.

   4:07:03The existing zoning is AR Agricultural Residential as well as MPUD. The proposal is to rezone to MP. to allow for the constructed permitted uses of 105,000 square feet of commercial retail, 55 dorm beds, 12,000 square feet clubhouse, 5,000 square foot restaurant, 150 45 platted town homes, 600 or 465 multifamily units on approximately 553 50.33 acres with renovations to the golf course. And it is located

   4:07:33on the north side of 50. for approximately 1.35 miles east of 75. So um as previously noted, the comprehensive plan presentation does have repetitive uh information. So I'm gonna try to fly through this um as best as I can and just highlight some of the additional changes as it relates to the MQD itself. So as stated, it's located in the South Market Area Urban Service Area. Here's your visual location map for the aerial. Uh the existing zoning district. And

   4:08:04the future land use, which is currently res well, was res 3 or res 6, now it is PD, has been approved for PD. Um so the applicant is seeking two variations from the code. Um so I'll go ahead and provide a little direction on those. Um LDC section 901 uh is seeking a variation uh at the request of many property owners within Saddleburgh Resort. No interconnection being vehicular or bidestrian is proposed to or from development area two to the south

   4:08:35since Saddlebrook Resort is gated. No interconnections to the west of development area two is proposed because those areas are platted. Additionally, no interconnections are proposed on the southern boundary of the Saddlebrook Resort since those are also platted subdivision. Wiregrass Ranch and then no interconnections are proposed alongside the eastern boundary of the Seth Weight Resort since the properties to the east um in that area are also plated subdivision. So the applicant's request has been reviewed and

   4:09:05supported by staff as it meets the intent of the code. Additionally, section 402 of the code, the applicant is requesting a variation from the LDC to allow for all of the open space, drainage, common areas, landscape areas, wetland areas, buffer areas, preservation areas, recreation, park, and other special purpose areas within the non-residential areas, multifamily areas that are under single ownership within development one and development two. To be operated and maintained by the ownership entities since

   4:09:35there's no HOA or C D D for those areas. And then additionally, they are foregoing requirements that do not apply to any portion of the MPUD that's controlled by an existing HOA or CDD. So again, applicant's request has been reviewed and supported by staff as it meets the intent of the code. Additionally. Just want to make sure. So here is the proposed master plan. You guys have you or you have already seen this, showing area one, area two, golf

   4:10:05course area, and area three. the binding conceptual plan. Which has already been just shown again, development area one, development area two. Um these are your three and four areas. And um before we I I ask for this recommendation I just did want to put into record um so a couple of the changes that occurred before or after the Planning Commission um are set forth in your agenda memo and

   4:10:35findings of FAC number fifteen. So there were seven changes that were made both be between those two between the Planning Commission hearing date and and today's hearing date. So uh there was an additional condition that was added to require the renovation plan, um being condition number thirty, uh condition number twenty-nine was revised to review the remote. Can

   MarianoChair

   4:10:56you can you review those? Change. Um

   Amy Heiler

   4:10:58sure, I can read them in do you want me to read the conditions themselves into record or just

   MarianoChair

   4:11:02go one by one.

   Amy Heiler

   4:11:03A little detail, okay. So condition number 30.

   4:11:10Condition number thirty is quite long. It's a do you want me to read the whole thing in the record? It's like the entire page.

   MarianoChair

   4:11:16Well let's get to the key points that we're different. Okay,

   Amy Heiler

   4:11:18you

   MarianoChair

   4:11:18got it.

   Amy Heiler

   4:11:19Okay, so condition number 30 is basically developing or requiring a renovation plan for third-party condo hotel units. Um this condition was actually discussed and crafted between Planning and Development, the Applicant and the Office of Economic Growth. Um and so we do have David Ingle here, who is a representative for our Office of Economic Growth, I can speak to a little bit in more detail. But basically, there are various components of the

   4:11:49renovation plan set forth. This is also where and in the findings of fact shows the change for the trigger where the prior uh prior to the final building inspection at the Planning Commission it was heard being the 300. Unit We've changed that, or it's been recommended to change that to 301st residential units within the development area. Um, additionally, for third-party condo hotel unit owners who elect

   4:12:19to renovate after the deadline. So the first paragraph above, uh, there is a deadline stating uh within 90 days of the approval, uh renovation plan shall be provided, and then uh uh Means for those third-party condo owners to kind of opt in to that renovation plan at that time. So again, the deadline in number five above before completion of the application renovation shall still follow number two and number three

   4:12:50being a requirement that the agreement to renovate between the third-party condo hotel unit owners. Include a requirement for application developer to renovate the lobby, food, beverages, pools, grounds, maintenance areas, resorts, etc. And then three being projected costs of the unit renovations along with the projected revenue increase and resultant ROI.

   4:13:16I think for the most part that covers the renovation plan again. Any additional detail I would uh uh say that uh David Ingle could speak to a little bit more detail on that. Um so I'll go I'll continue going down the findings of fact. The second one is a rev revised condition number 29 to reduce the trigger from when 100% of the existing hotel units owned by the applicant lobby at least one food and beverage area and at least 150% of ground level meeting space

   4:13:47will be renovated from the 351st residential unit to the 301st. So that is also set forth in condition number 29. Findings of fact 15.3 amend the land development code variation to not seek a variation from the requirement to provide an interconnection to the east of development area too. So the updated master plan has removed at Planning Commission. They were seeking a variation request to not connect to both the east and the west, but it

   4:14:17has been determined that they can provide a sufficient connection connection to the east, uh which is basically your van Dyne area. Um and so that has been removed. Um uh number four. So

   Starkey

   4:14:28they they're not gonna

   Amy Heiler

   4:14:28connect to it?

   Starkey

   4:14:29They are,

   Amy Heiler

   4:14:30yeah.

   Starkey

   4:14:30Oh they are for the yeah.

   Amy Heiler

   4:14:31Yeah, on on the east side. So the west side they're still not providing a connection because it's plaited or asking for that variation. Um but on the east side that's where your Bandyne connection is or the light. Um so that's where your visual that was uh entered into record and I'll I'll speak to that uh additionally after we go through these. Um Um okay, so number four from findings of fact, amend the binding MPD conceptual plan to eliminate the Western Connection Development Area 2, since the West is platted,

   4:15:02so same uh conversation. Um it's so in the uh actual sub middle of the agenda, the master plan, there are seven sheets of excuse me, seven sheets of the master plan. So uh this change from the Planning Commission uh modified uh sheets P1 and P7. So that'll be in your uh adjusted master plan. Additionally, there is a condition that was added being condition number 47 to add the vertical mixed use

   4:15:32commitment to development area one. That was the intent since pretty much the beginning of this project. It just was not documented within the MPD conditions of approval. So the applicant went ahead and added that language to number 49. Additionally, there is language in the master plan on P7 as well, or page seven excuse me, as well. So the vertical mixed use commitment and development area one is both in your master plan and conditions of approval.

   4:16:03Um findings of fact six ad enhanced landscaping plan for the areas along Saddleburg Way. Um that will be set forth in your master plan being sheet five, um which will show the uh enhanced landscaping that they have provided or proposed. Um and then uh there was a proposed deletion to condition number forty nine that was uh um recommended at the Planning Commission. So in addition to the findings of fact um with the changes

   4:16:33that were proposed from the Planning Commission, uh what was just added into record uh was a change to condition number seventeen and condition number um twenty one. Uh condition number seventeen added language to state So it sweeps to access points, external facing within the MPD, etc. So the additional language does notwithstanding. The development area number two shall Uh access shall align with the State Road 54

   4:17:04and Van Dyne Road intersection, subject to the State of Florida Department of Transportation approval and or county right-of-way use permit as applicable. And then there is also an asterisk added to condition number 21, which also aligns with the Van Dyne intersection. So condition number 21 speaks to prior to approval of the first record plat or where plat is not required, prior to issuance of the first building building permit, construct or

   4:17:34post a Performance guarantee acceptable to the county for the following external access improvements. So the improvement to the State Road 52 or excuse me, State Road 54 and project access B being Development Area 2, which is your Van Dyne intersection. There is an additional condition on number 21 with an asterisk that states in lieu of Access at State Road 54 and Projects Access B. Access shall align

   4:18:04with the State Road 54 and Van Dyne Road intersection, subject to the State of Florida Department of Transportation approval and/or county right-of-way use permit as acceptable or as applicable. In such event, developer applicant shall submit an access management analysis at the time of construction plan review to determine required access improvements. So between Planning Commission on 7-6 and And today, um, I think 7-6 actually, I'm sorry, June 8th, um, those changes have been submitted.

   MarianoChair

   4:18:34Quick question on uh number twenty.

   Amy Heiler

   4:18:37Okay.

   MarianoChair

   4:18:39It says um Developer has provided a substandard road application for State Road 54. There are no substandard road impacts of State Road 54 from the applied approved land uses that require mitigation by developer. And then the next sentence. Developers shall not be responsible for any improvements to State Road 54. or any proportionate share payment for any improvements to State Route fifty four. Nevermind. I got it. Okay.

   MarianoChair

   4:19:08Other reading.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   4:19:14Third time around.

   Amy Heiler

   4:19:14Yeah, exactly. Um so with that, if you have any additional questions, I can I'd be happy to answer that, but staff does recommend approval with conditions.

   MarianoChair

   4:19:23Okay. Any questions for staff?

   4:19:27Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:19:37Barbara Wilhite, 6327, Graham Boulevard, Newport Ritchie for the applicant. Again, for the record, we have this our PowerPoint presentation that's been given to the clerk as well as our timing and phasing analysis. The timing and phasing analysis is the same document that was sent to the county and reviewed. And approved by county staff. If you would be so kind as to move that into the record.

   MarianoChair

   4:20:02Need a motion to receive and file. Move to receive and file.

   MarianoChair

   4:20:05Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Roll call.

   Starkey

   4:20:08District one, Commissioner Oakley.

   MarianoChair

   4:20:10Aye.

   Starkey

   4:20:10District two, Commissioner Weightman. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   4:20:19District five Chairman Mariano. Uh-huh.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:20:25As um Amy had told you, we do have an M PD binding concept plan. Again, a new creation um from for myself after twenty-seven years of doing this um with the county um and then working with clients with the county. That's all the details of of how it binds. This is the binding concept plan. I um I'm not sure if staff has the this current one in there. in their presentation or not, but this is the current one. Most notably, we can tell it's another current one because it's missing all the townhome units

   4:20:55that backed up to Saddleburg Way.

   4:21:00Some Very good features of this proposed development is it enhanced connectivity. We have a new secondary gated access to Saddlebrook for for residents only. We have a new primary entrance for all of our service vehicles. that now go through the primary gate. For Commissioner Starkey, we have a new eight eight foot multi-use path that residents and resort guests can use to go to and from If you think about it, then you can go to area one. from the resort and from the residences without going on Saddlebook

   4:21:30Way which has no sidewalks. They can use that new multi use path to get to the sidewalks on State Road fifty four without going on the Saddlebrook Way that has no sidewalks. They can use that new eight foot path to get to all the sidewalks and paths within Wiregrass Ranch. and all the different amenities that they have. Um building on the investments that others have made and for a resort that didn't have any paths or sidewalks, we're changing that.

   4:21:58This is the the specifics of that plan. Condition number thirty-two says we've won we need to do it, so it makes it not only binding from a picture, but binding as to we have to do it. Um

   4:22:12When you see that it's the it's the brown coming all the way down and then it hooks up to

   MarianoChair

   4:22:16hang on for one second. So that does a Commissioner Weightman has a question?

   Weightman

   4:22:19Thank you. Two Miz Rhoda's the the Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard connection, this one here. To be clear, you know, we've talked a lot about this per this particular connection. So Mast is agreeing to build what's in yellow. to this to Wiregrass Range Boulevard.

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   4:22:40Yes.

   Weightman

   4:22:41Before so we're gonna see a true connection come all the way down the that five acres. But then Cut west across Wiregrass Ranch and connect into Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:22:54Commissioner, that's correct, and that's condition thirty one. And that has to be in place before the first I'm going to say CO because it's a C O equivalent because it's County Language's first final building inspection instead of CO, but we're going to say CO here because we all know what that means. That road has to be constructed and operational before the first CO in Area One.

   Weightman

   4:23:17So in the timing With this project. Should this go through? Mass and there's plans in place to, you know, start working on this road. We're always behind on roads, right? Like feels. Good black. This road's pretty much ready to rock like y'all be ready to rock and roll. And

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:23:41w we have to be 'cause it holds us back from doing anything in From having the first C O in Area One till it's completed.

   Weightman

   4:23:48Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:23:50We do have a subsequent development agreement. So David and I get to work a little bit more on this one that that condition calls out. And we're working with Wiregrass of course it's going through their property, so we're coordinating with them. They do have an obligation to give the right away in the ponds. Um there's no issue with that. It's just we obviously we want to coordinate, they gotta make sure that it works for them, it's coming across their property.

   Weightman

   4:24:10So it's gonna so that's tracking The direction that I'd like. Okay that we've discussed.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:24:16That's correct.

   Weightman

   4:24:17Okay. Thank you.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:24:19Yes.

   4:24:26So again, this just shows the secondary access and lots of details regarding that. As we had questions, we put details on our concept plan. That's why you see all those details there.

   4:24:39This is the list of access management improvements that the project is doing. 54 and Saddlebrook Way, as you've heard of about those improvements. 54 and Vision Road H, Vision Road H and Project Access A, Vision Road H. And site access. These are the improvements to Saddlebrook Way and State Road 54, the the dual lefts and the dedicated right.

   4:25:05We did we talked about the Van Dyne intersection and staff um told you about condition seventeen. This is the revision, you have that revision.

   4:25:15That is this is the new the concept plan of how we'll achieve access. You can see that we have access also out to our neighbor, so they'll be able to use the light as well if they want to connect. There is a s a piece of their uh property that they don't have, they do not have pavement to their property line. There's a gap there. But they certainly could change that and want to have access. continue to work with them. If they work with us. Division road H

   4:25:45we just talked about. Coming out of um Planning Commission, the request on Saddlebrook Way for enhanced um landscaping. That's the yellow. This the the The green was already in our MPV plan, it's been in our MPV plan for a long time, enhanced um enhanced landscape buffers for east of those boundaries where we are adjacent to residential, and the enhanced buffer treatment that you see in orange there to the existing golf course.

   4:26:15We've talked about the fact that we removed all the townhomes backing up to Salah Book Way. Again we did that on our own. Um wasn't requested by Planning Commission or staff.

   4:26:29So this is something I'm sure We'll talk a lot about both with the commission and with the presentations, I'm sure you'll hear from the residents and their representatives. So what we were asked to do From early on, um

   4:26:44It was the question was could Mass do development area one and two and not do anything with the resort? So we put a lot of conditions on ourselves and staff continue to put those conditions on us um to make sure that they were would they achieved that goal, which was to make sure that we couldn't do development area one and two without doing the resort. So this is the result of all all that work. And it's been a lot of work. First of all, the existing driving

   4:27:15range will remain operational until the new driving range is operational, which means you can't start turning any dirt in development area one. until the investment's been made in the new driving range. Second thing is, prior to the first CO equivalent in dever development area one or two. Renovation of at least eighteen holes of golf. And renovation commenced in all of these areas, masked condo hotel units, and when we look at the renovation plan condition you'll see that there's

   4:27:45an opportunity for all the third parties to also be get their re their units um renovated along at the same time. commencing on the lobby, food and beverage e areas and meeting space. So you look at that and you say, Well What's the significance of that? It's commenced all of these areas. This resort's not closing down. So to to get to the point where you commence all of those areas and you have to phase all of them so that you have an an operational

   4:28:15resort. To get to that point where you've commenced on each one of those areas is actually a a pretty large commitment.

   4:28:23Prior to the three hundred and first residential CO equivalent in Development Area One, all of the Mass Condo Hotel units have to be done. There's also the the condition regarding the the third party hotel units. The lobby has to be finished, at least one food and beverage area, at least 50% of the meeting space. And prior to the final residential CO, then they complete all those renovations. We also worked on after Planning Commission a detailed renovation plan for the third-party condo hotel owners.

   4:28:53And the idea being there. that making sure that there was a bunch of ground rules that the county wanted to to see in that ultimate renovation plan. Aside from just a fact that there's a renovation plan, what is it going to look like? What's the model room look like and the like, there's ground rules in there Which means the renovation cost for the third party this was important the county wanted to make sure the renovation cost for the third party conta condo hotel unit owners shall not be more than the renovation cost of

   4:29:24the of the condo hotel unit units, so that's There's equivalency there that our that my client's not marking up and saying, okay, this is my cost, but I'm gonna charge more to do it for the third party owners.

   4:29:36We have to project the the cost of the unit renovation with projected revenue increase and result in our ROI. We have to seek out financing to the extent available for third party unit owners who require financial assistance. I would again remind you that these are securities, registered securities. To buy one of these units, you make a disclosure that you make individually two hundred thousand a year, three hundred thousand dollars a year as a couple, or a million dollars in assets.

   MarianoChair

   4:30:02Are we can hang up one second? Commissioner Weightman.

   Weightman

   4:30:04Thank you.

   4:30:08With the the the the credit

   4:30:13I'll preface it this way, we've already weighed into this thing further than most.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:30:18I would agree.

   Weightman

   4:30:19Uh makes me a bit uncomfortable at times. And I've shared this comment with probably everybody in this room or most people. Government's pushing the boundaries here, but I'll ask this question for consumer advocacy reasons. The $30,000 that Mass is willing to put towards a renovation. if a if a third party owner wants to renovate theirs. How does that work? How does that kick in? Like say they want to do 15,000.

   4:30:50Dollars worth of renovation, some carpets, some tile holes, some cabinetry. How how does We've already pried in a lot so I figured how how is this reimbursement working? Is it They're all in and then once they once that owner breaks that threshold then then mass comes in with with their their piece of it. Am I is my question making sense? Uh

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:31:14I'm not entirely following you

   Weightman

   4:31:16on

   4:31:16the

   4:31:16right-of-way.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:31:17Are we talking about m mass?

   Weightman

   4:31:19On the condotel on the condotels. The condotel renovation piece. So many papers here.

   MarianoChair

   4:31:28Commissioner Weightman, I don't think Mass is paying for the condo owners. At all.

   Weightman

   4:31:36There's not there's not I thought there was up to

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:31:40No that's a

   Weightman

   4:31:42Maybe I mis misinterpreted. Yeah,

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:31:44the I think what the what you're talking about, the numbers that are in here in this condition, in the whatever paragraph that is at the end, there are numbers in there for if somebody doesn't want to renovate that there is a um obligation for our mass to up to a certain point to buy those units. Again, the economic growth thought it was important to make sure that we had a robust renovation plan so that is a large majority of these units get get renovated because it's important to the success of the resort, which is important to the county and very important

   4:32:14to my clients. So you have m mutual same interest there.

   Weightman

   4:32:17Right, I I appreciate that. I was trying to get a better clarity and understanding after the conversation with the residents folks about it. It was in I thought it was an interesting I thought it was a nice gesture on behalf of Mass to could do that but I apparently interpreted interpreted it wrong. Sorry, long long day.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:32:37Um, let's see, what else do we have important in here? Calendar deadline for third-party c hotel owners to enter into the renovation contract so their unit will be done with the renovations that Mast is doing.

   4:32:52The um And we can if you have any questions, my clients here and can go through this at the end. There's a lot of qualifying language here just because when you're talking about values and and making sure that they pay the same as what Mass pays and how does that work because you do have variations in some of these units. There's a lot of details there. Um and then there's this provision that talks about what happens if a if a unit owner, um, one of the investors does not choose to renovate and there's the a buyout and there's

   4:33:22also that my client will um agree to remove the unit from the rental pool which that means they lose all of their benefits as a resort owner.

   4:33:39We have been asked and asked and asked. Can we, you know, is this tight enough? Is this tight enough? Is this tight enough? Is there anything else? Have we missed anything? Does this let my client do something? You know, get something out of order? Does this mean that they don't have to do something? Um I feel really strongly that, you know, all along here You can see all the conditions and I push and push and push. Okay. Um But I believe that We go any further. I'm

   4:34:11afraid we'll make him unsuccessful. It's just too much at some point. And so I pause whenever I push any further into their business plan and their business um in zoning. Because it's not my expertise. And the worst thing we can do is ratchet them down to a ratchet very eloquent term, ratchet them down to a point that they they're not going to be successful and and uh I wanna seem successful and I know you do too. That is my presentation. Um certainly

   4:34:41available for for uh any questions and we'll listen to The residents and the representative and Henry Button.

   MarianoChair

   4:34:48Barbara, if you don't mind, what I'd like to do I and I should have done this before, let me bring up David Engel and let him just talk about what he has in case he wants to clarify anything. And then if you want to say something, you can say something and then and then we'll go to public comment. This way we'll get it. Clear from his side.

   Barry Shine

   4:35:03Yeah.

   MarianoChair

   4:35:05In case there's any other thirty thousand dollar bonuses we m might be missing. That one hour would make a difference, Chairman. Storm driven.

   David Engel

   4:35:13That's just wishful thank you.

   4:35:18Well I can say this clearly, good evening, David Enkel economically. Yeah, some questions regarding uh the renovation plan, sir.

   MarianoChair

   4:35:28Yeah, g let's go with the latest changes to it as far as the the start. I mean I saw the I mean the slide didn't show what goes on with the the residents, et cetera, the the condotel owners. So just kind of clarify their situation, how they tie into the rest of this.

   David Engel

   4:35:44These aren't market units. These aren't units that people can use and enjoy indefinitely. There's a 45-day restriction. As was stipulated in testimony, they are qualified investors. These are investment vehicles. We were concerned look going into the Final phase of negotiations that Mast only controlled 75 units and you need a certain economies of scale to support the resort. It doesn't function adequately and to its potential

   4:36:15without enough condo hotels that are renovated. So one thing we wanted, we wanted to have Mass run the renovation plan and program because they have mobilization advantages, economies of scale. They'll be competitively trying to get the lowest bids because they're going to be paying per unit what everybody else is paying. And Mast agreed to do that and run that renovation plan and then we wanted a stipulation that at a date certain people were given

   4:36:45told if you don't sign up, you're out. and um that Mass agreed to that. We provided that in the provisions within those conditions. And um we also wanted the We also wanted the renovation plan distributed quickly, and I did see a copy of it. It was distributed yesterday, and I read it this morning, and it was a good plan. It provided the history of the condominium hotels. Um the last renovation was 2001-2002.

   4:37:17It provided a comparative analysis as to the disadvantage of the resort at this point and the advantages. of renovating those hotel units. It also provided a uh we asked for a return on investment analysis of Proforma because these are investment vehicles. They're just they're real assets, they're not financial securities. And it did provide a adequate return, and I didn't see the backup to it, but approximately 16% annual ROI once

   4:37:47the thing gets up and running. I think there's a minor minor loss. for 2024 after the units are renovated and then they go into positive cash flow in 25 and then it ramps up. The last thing we did was we asked Mass and they uh they were very gracious actually. To accept the fact that they may have to buy some of the units because we want to make sure that there's a scale there to accommodate the resort at its completion. So um market values

   4:38:17were established. We don't want mass to be disadvantaged. Um we look had two comparables that were uh transacted in the last I think about eight months for each of the models and the prices that are in the agreement are accurate and they do reflect the market value of those units today. So I I looked at what is it for the condo hotel owner? I mean you're sitting there with a depreciated asset. I mean the y as I understand it the units

   4:38:47are going for much less than they originally were or at their peak. Uh you're sitting with a depreciated asset. You're gonna have to belly up to the bar and put anywhere for I guess the average about sixty five, seventy K, depending on the type of unit. into it, but you have a positive ROI and and the and the flip side is the value of your asset will start appreciating over time. So you have the advantages of owning real property, you have positive cash flow after year one. And you also have the potential

   4:39:18of of uh nurring uh a appreciating asset. So that was our view and that's why we endorsed the plan. And uh we were I think it took us about two weeks to negotiate this this one item on the reservation plan.

   MarianoChair

   4:39:33Uh d and David, I appreciate your jumping in. We we we met last week, we talked about it and uh clearly waiting to the three hundred and first unit didn't make a lot of sense for the renovations to happen because there was no details. I mean there's there's no reason for a wait that long anyway. And it's not good for the mass, it's not good for the people that own. Uh and I'm glad you're you've lined it up. A couple of things it's it's within ninety days they've got to respond to mass offer, is that correct?

   David Engel

   4:39:57They have to they have uh once they get delivered the renovation plan, I believe they have ninety days to sign up.

   MarianoChair

   4:40:03So with the renovation plan submitted last night, is that sufficient enough or is it gonna be more detailed?

   David Engel

   4:40:09Well I I don't know how that was served. Um I just saw a copy of it. A resident had given it to me. I haven't seen a formal transmittable from Mass at this point.

   MarianoChair

   4:40:18Okay, so what I wonder is uh I I I And I'll let the residents talk a little more. But I don't know if they had talked about before they were going to do a plan first to show people what they were going to get, or was it just going to be a paper form to say, here's what's going to happen?

   David Engel

   4:40:31Well, I believe a a detailed renovation plan would have a detail on what the improvements would be and what the outcomes would be. So I and I and I know that about maybe five months ago, Mass did provide us with a mock-up of how the units would look upon completion.

   MarianoChair

   4:40:47Yeah, and I and I think it's critical and hopefully if these things do go, the people like the plan it goes goes well. They won't be buying anybody or very few anyway, so that'll f free them up to just keep on going. I think the quicker they get it done as is as Jordan says the economies of scales they can take advantage of. The more people sign up quicker, maybe some benefits there. Uh as Aaron says Aaron said they're not competitive as they are right now, so there's a there's a great benefit for everybody. I just want to see that we kind of get things tied in as quick as we can uh

   4:41:17to get it moving. Uh and frankly I will throw out there again as we talked last time I would love to see us work with permitting real close, uh cutting fees down to save some residents and money if we can as well. uh put some expedited plan together where I've got a gentleman who could be a certified in all four different trades where he can like do view specs like we have done before to get these things quick, efficiently and let 'em turn and and help them get it done quicker than the normal process might be. Any other

   4:41:47questions?

   Barry Shine

   4:41:49No.

   David Engel

   4:41:50Yes. Thank you. Thank you, David. Good.

   OakleyVice Chair

   4:41:52Thank you, David.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:41:57So one of the things I forgot to mention that renovation plan, one is the renovation plan that was received by Mass to their um resort owners is not all of that this renovation plan that we have 90 days to get to the county, hopefully from today. So but it is certainly the renovation plan that talks about the cost and ROI and those different things. But one of the things that's really important to this renovation plan, not only to make sure that my client is paying what they're paying, everybody else is paying, so so it's all

   4:42:27the same. It's number two on here. And it requires that um The agreement to renovate between the third-party condo hotel owners and the applicant developer shall include the requirement the applicant developer renovate the lobby, food and beverage areas, the pool, ground level meeting space in the main building, and an outside calendar deadline to complete SAIN. So they're gonna work with their resort owners, they're gonna make their commitments. So I my understanding is what's been

   4:42:58a hindrance to investment of the resort owners to renovate their units in the past is the lack of investment by the owner in their areas. So that can't occur here. So there's a commitment and an agreement that says, hey, resort owner, If you sign up I sign up for what I'm gonna do. And that's an important number two here. um that you see that. And Pool is included in there. And you'll see that if you look at the language in the phasing conditions relative to the

   4:43:29county and what the county's reviewing against, the pool's not in there because the county um looks at we're having them look at things that are building permits so they can verify it. So there's the link between what we're doing in building permits and pool does renovation doesn't require it. But right here, before we ask any of our condo hotel owners to sign on the dotted line, it has to include the commitment of to do renovations at the pool. And the fact that we're gonna in that agreement where it belongs in the private agreements outside of zoning there will

   4:43:59be an outside calendar deadline um to complete um complete those renovations. So I wanted to point that out.

   MarianoChair

   4:44:08Thank you.

   4:44:13Can we have a list?

   District Five Chairman

   4:44:16So um we have

   MarianoChair

   4:44:19public comment?

   District Five Chairman

   4:44:19Yeah, we can go to p we have multiple signed up for fifty four and uh sixty eight again. Do you want to call this list?

   MarianoChair

   4:44:25Um Yeah, let's start with here, I guess. Jane Hagen first. Uh Jane Graham first, sorry.

   Jane Graham

   4:44:45Good evening Commission. I'll make this as fast as possible 'cause I know that we wanna find a solution here.

   Starkey

   4:44:55Name and address for the record.

   Jane Graham

   4:44:57Yeah. My name is Jane Graham, Sunshine City Law, seven three seven Main Street, Suite One Hundred, Safety Harbor, representing the Save Saddlebrook Coalition. Now I've already

   Starkey

   4:45:07spoke and you were and were you sworn.

   Jane Graham

   4:45:10Yes, I was sworn to the right-of-way. Yeah. And so without going into the details, I mean this is a quasi-judicial hearing. You're supposed to take into account whether or not there's competent substantial evidence that has supported each of these conditions of approv uh conditions under the Euclidean rezoning criteria and the MPUD rezoning criteria. It would be our position that there are still a number of deficiencies. based on what we've already spoken about in the earlier section, so I'm not going to belabor those

   4:45:40points. There also are the inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan which we do maintain for the record. Yeah. Larry Barbetta is going to speak to this a lot more. But what we would say is we We do think that the conditions of approval are very much on the right side. They're getting there. They're almost there. What masks? This is what we'd like to see. When Mast welcomes the new residents in Development

   4:46:10Area One, the resort should be fully renovated and open for business. Right now the conditions of approval only require renovations of the Condo Hotel units to be met by Mast to be complete by the final building inspection for the 301st residential unit. and 50% of the condo hotel units owned by third party members, third party owners. In practical terms, this could be years in the future. And so, meanwhile, and and you know we have had

   4:46:40many productive conversations with MAST, and it's our understanding that they are very much committed to renovating the resort. We think that the current language in conditions of approval 29 to 30 falls short of capturing all of these commitments. So we have some language up here. I'm going to defer to Larry Barbetta. He's going to explain what we think should be tweaked. We think that this instead of the 301st unit, it should be the first unit. So like I said, when

   4:47:11you start opening development area one, the resort is fully renovated and open for business. As well, we'd like to see the pool up here as far as the first cut of things that would be renovated at that same time. There's also an update to condition thirty. Larry's gonna go through it a little bit more as far as what we'd like to see. Why is this relevant? And I think that you all understand this anyways that the phasing of development is relevant for approval based on

   4:47:40section 402.2C5D. What I wanted to talk with you about, and it was kind of interesting to me that this came up in another topic of conversation earlier, are the dimensional standards. Because if you look at condition number 49, what you'll see is that they're actually much less protective of green space than in comparable zoning districts. For example, The apartments take up 85% lot coverage, whereas

   4:48:11the Euclidean zoning district for multifamily use, which would be the MF3 high density district at 24 acres, is actually only allowed 55% lot coverage. Now, there's something similar as well for non-residential standards. These deviations would be forgivable because it is an MPUD and it makes sense that you do want the flexibility. However, it would be forgivable if the buildings

   4:48:41were truly clustered to maximize green space. But if you look at the binding concept plan, it still depicts the vast amount of development areas. One is composed of parking lots. So we do think that the plan can be better. We think that there should be less parking lots. There they should be clustered in a closer way, less lot coverage. And the dimensional standard can get to that. So that would be an amendment to condition 49 to see if

   4:49:11you can temper some of those lot coverage space. Oh. The other thing I wanted to raise your attention to is that the plan lacks information about the open space and recreation that's required by the code. What it actually says under condition of approval 14 is that it will be approved at the time of the PDP and PSPs, the preliminary development plan and site plan. And I don't know how familiar you

   4:49:41guys are with something called alternative standards, but it says that, you know, these can be in accordance with um 905.1, which are the park requirements, and any alternative standards approved. Alternative standards are a deviation from code requirements, and that's an administrative determination that's not made by the Commission. And so what you might see, and I urge you to take a close look at this and what's happening with various site plans that might be going through. Is that staff

   4:50:12are approving these alternative site plans that are skating by some of the requirements as far as let's include a clubhouse as part of a plan for recreation or let's count stormwater structures as parks. And these are things that actually go against the code, but alternative standards seem to be allowing it. So take a close look Look at that, see if you can tighten that up and make sure that the parks are really complying with what is allowed and

   4:50:42required. The other issue about that is if you look back at the history Back in nineteen ninety seven I've got a copy of an inter office memorandum from nine uh sorry, ninety-seven, not ninety-three, that says that fifty percent of the area in area one is actually supposed to be reserved for landscaping. And um you know what's interesting about this is There there was some discussion that, oh, you know, the

   4:51:12commercial and retail is actually what's new on this plan, but actually commercial has already been approved based on the older MPUD for 100,000 square feet of commercial in development area one. But what it says, and that's kind of beside the point, but what it says, which is important, is that 50% of that area is reserved for landscaping. And so that that gives you a a picture of what was originally intended and then you look at what's used now. Now that's actually that needs to

   4:51:42be updated. Um that has a townhome, so it wouldn't have that those the list of the extra townhomes there. But still, in development area one there are there's a l there's not fifty percent landscaping. Again, w what

   Starkey

   4:51:59did you just say there's not what?

   Jane Graham

   4:52:01Fifty percent landscaping in area one in the plans that you're looking at.

   4:52:09So finally, I mean, going back through the comprehensive plan sections, compatibility remains an issue. Um, these variety of issues, traffic analysis, we do still have significant questions that remain. I've included a letter from Drew Rourke, an engineer who did look at um the May analysis. He kind of just quickly looked at it, he wasn't able to do a full analysis. But what he did notice is that many of the methodologies were the same and he did have some issues with that methodology.

   4:52:40Um, especially given the magnitude. Why was the study area so small given the development of this magnitude?

   4:52:51Ultimately um Pasco County and Saddlebrook deserves better. Um we think that there can be some more changes for the conditions. Larry Barbetta is going to speak more about it. And one last thing that I do just want to clear up on the record there was some discussion um by staff that the fire and emergency said no comment, so therefore it Counted to mean that it was approval. However, if you look at the schools, it said no concerns.

   4:53:22If you looked at the parks under the same section, it said no concerns. If you looked at economic growth, it explicitly said no concerns. So the fact that there was no no comments provided, I mean that's something that I think that on its face is different. So I I leave you with that. Um you know, uh Mr. Barbetta will tell you a lot more, explain the timeline and what we're looking at. And I do just want to highlight again that the coalition really has appreciated the opportunity to work with Mass. They

   4:53:52are Mass neighbors, they will be Mass neighbors. They want to see this be um successful for everyone, and to do that they want to make sure that there's true synchrony in in um the landscaping, that there's protection and that more all most importantly that there's synchrony in the resort being renovated at the same time and in a s in a clear and substantial way that protects the property owners mask and um through development

   4:54:23area one through the same time. So thank you very much. Any questions?

   OakleyVice Chair

   4:54:29Any questions?

   Starkey

   4:54:32No, but I I will have some questions for Barbara based on things you said. So uh it looks

   MarianoChair

   4:54:39you wanna go now Larry? It s

   4:54:41so we're calling Larry Barbetta to the okay.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   4:55:02Hello again. This is Lawrence Barbetta. I live at [address removed] and I've been sworn in.

   4:55:13So First of all again. Thank you for the time and we also thank you Commissioners for giving us time to work with Mast. I think the time was beneficial. I think we've made some very significant progress in many areas. So thank you. And to my own. Colleagues at Mast, we've appreciated your time and sincerely the efforts you've put forth. And I do think we've made good progress and I think we're close. And I'm looking forward to finishing these last couple steps so we can get this over the goal

   4:55:43line together. And you can succeed and we can succeed as a community. So we've made great progress. Where do we have concerns and need your help? uh commissioners is really two primary areas. One deals with the revitalization of the resort in terms of the timing. and the scope of the commitments. The second area is we still have worries about area one in terms of density, lack of green

   4:56:13space, the product, etc. and the implications that has on our community. We really do believe that this can and should be a win-win. When solution. When for mast, Win for the residents, win for the county. And we ask your help to get there, because we really are close. So where have we made great progress? As was mentioned earlier, the um declaration of restriction to preserve the golf course and the views is is a tremendous

   4:56:43um benefit and benefits the community very much and we're happy to hear that we have closure on that. We also have a companion agreement that goes with that that relates to filing. That's a very important um accomplishment and something that's important for our community and we're thankful. In area one where we have concerns again. And we'll discuss it more, is just the scope. Now I was very excited to hear about the changes in the access in area too, because that might create an opportunity perhaps

   4:57:14to balance this better. And there were earlier conversations where there was flexibility in possibly considering the movement of density between those areas in some way. And so we would like to have um. We would ask you to explore that. In terms of the resort revitalization

   4:57:33Basically, the timing really matters. It matters to us as a community. We've been through a lot. This has been very, very difficult on the community. And what we're gonna go through is gonna be difficult as well. So you know, let's rip the band aid off. Let's move it responsibly, but let's move it quickly. Okay. Um Right now there's a lot going on and I'll break it down. We think the fundamental, as Jane communicated,

   4:58:04should be simple. When you're Getting the benefit of the development in the front. Area one and area two. How about when you're ready to move people in there? You're ready to welcome people back. to a renovated Saddle Park Resort. We're not saying do our s everything first and then start there. But we are saying let's get Some you know synchronicity with that, let's do it simultaneous. Move in there, Welcome us

   4:58:34back here. Also, I would point out that master representatives have conveyed in sworn testimony on numerous occasions, that they don't require revenues or funding in Area One or Two to fund the resort renovations. So there shouldn't be a fiscal reason to hold that up. Ан ізнтер, примери гол одеспроєкт. To revitalize Saddlebrook. Not build more apartments. What's a revitalized saddleburn? If we have to

   4:59:04build apartments to do it, we understand. But let's not lose sight of the goal. Okay. These are the conditions of approval. And I've highlighted a couple of areas. I won't read them all. Lots of them are good. In twenty eight, the concern is note it says You're gonna commence renovation. When are you going to commence renovation of the existing condo hotel units owned by Mast and some of the privately owned ones and start renovations? It's

   4:59:35not until the first final building inspection in Area One, two, and the completion of eighteen holes with golf. Okay. We'll come back to that. Twenty nine also says the Our first final inspection For unit three oh one. So they've moved in three hundred people already in area one is when we have our first completion date. At the resort. That's a disconnect.

   5:00:04This speaks to the condo owners. We think we should have privately owned people. Should be enabled the same turnaround time provided they support the resort plan, the renovation plan in a timely manner. And why this matters to us as a community is because it has a full functioning resort, not a few rooms, and how it matters to the county is the revenue impact.

   5:00:29And along those lines, the revenue impact is pretty simple. If we look at mass information that was provided even last night. In twenty twenty two. When you look at gross revenues. The county. Through its five percent, penny for Pasco, an additional one percent. Yields five hundred and twenty thousand dollars. That's the county's money from according to mass information provided last night when I did the math off of their numbers. When the resort is

   5:00:59completed, Mast is projecting The Rev PAR, which is revenue per available room, to increase from forty three In twenty twenty two, which is what happened. A projected fifty-seven in twenty twenty three to a hundred and fifty-three in twenty twenty three. Uh finished state. And revenue per available room, for those who aren't familiar with it, means not just an average rate for the room, that implies an occupancy forecast too. Okay? So that's what that would mean. That changes the gross

   5:01:29of Saddlebrook, just on the resort rentals, from 7.4 million in gross revenue to twenty six point four million. Tremendous gross county product. I think that's the acronym you guys use. And that's not including all the other money they spend outside of the room rental. To Pasco itself, it means 520K Last year, projected six eighty nine thousand this year. One point eight five million. At a finished state.

   5:02:00So the sooner we get this done, think of the economic impact to the county overall and the benefits to us. Okay, so specifically when we look at this, if you break down by the time you finish 18 holes of golf. If it got compressed to do it in one single season, It would be November 2024 before the developer would be required to commence renovations at the resort. Not finish, commence. Why?

   5:02:31Why would we want to wait that long? And by the way, doing that would result in closing down eighteen holes so you'd only have nine left. Okay. And if they spread it out over two seasons. Nine holes. keep eighteen open, then go to the other nine, etcetera. You wouldn't even start work until November 2025. Okay. That's too long. Why would we wait to start until then?

   5:02:59We've talked about the impact on lost revenue. We also think again including everybody who owns a condo to be done at the same time provided they opt in would make sense.

   5:03:11Okay? So rather than just talk, as Jane mentioned, we've given some language. This is the existing language. The changes are in green. Instead of it saying 301. We would ask that we're not going to be able to When you're ready to move people into area one, The first unit. We didn't say area two by the way, you could do area two earlier. But when you're gonna move people into area one Be ready to welcome back at the resort. Let's be done. It's not hard. Second thing, include all the condo owners that are privately

   5:03:41owned if they opt in.

   5:03:45And then we all to accomplish that we just have to change those two little sections in section 30. We provided that to you for your consideration. We think it's very viable and measured.

   5:04:00concerned about. Oh, there's one other thing which is we added the pool as well because we want some of the benefits um for some of the amenities that matter to owners, not just from a hotel perspective. Okay.

   5:04:17Others will talk more about the traffic, so I'm gonna not cover that. Others will. Um But The plan still has challenges in area one with the green space as Jane brought up. We see the apartments. There's a there is a lack of green space. We see a big issue with the impact of the Vision Road in terms of having to turn right, do U-turns, etcetera. Maybe with the changes in area two we could responsibly push a little bit of that density there and keep everyone off of the Saddlebrook

   5:04:47Wishbone, which is already Lodjam and Chokehold. That's a big problem. I don't care what any traffic study says. That's a big problem. Okay, the other thing that is something we should consider is when we have this Vision Road Access, which is certainly great and we appreciate that, it pushes a lot of traffic through our small roads that don't have sidewalks. It runs a lot of traffic directly via school. Okay, just something to consider from a safety perspective. Okay. So in conclusion We would ask you to consider

   5:05:17the reasonable adjustments

   5:05:21very practical and pragmatic and makes sense for everyone even in mass benefit as well. Okay. We think doing that would have a great economic benefit to the county, it would have a great quality of life benefit, it would Absolutely support economic growth and tourism because you have the one resort in Saddlebrook back, I mean in Pasco back sooner and back where it needs to be. It needs attention, we all know that. It needs it fast. It doesn't take long to trash a

   5:05:51reputation.

   5:05:54Okay.

   5:05:57We think that what we're proposing is a win win win. And we would ask for your help and support to make it real. We thank Mast for the concessions they've made. And for working with us and we thank the county for all of your support and your time and consideration. Thank you very much.

   MarianoChair

   5:06:17Pat Hogan?

   Jane Graham

   5:06:29It's a screen news.

   Patrick Hogan

   5:06:32Uh Pat Hogan [address removed] uh [address removed] and I've been sworn in. Um so it's probably no secret what I'm gonna talk about. Everybody's kind of telegraphed for me, so we're gonna talk about golf a little bit. Um and the concern that we have as uh owners in Fairway Village. You heard Mr. Really talk uh earlier about uh being stuck behind golf carts in his uh and yeah on his way home. Well I live uh three doors

   5:07:03down from where he lives. So I I feel his pain. But the problem with the But the layout as it stands uh is that uh there The plan is to use um uh roads that are owned by Fairway Village HOAS CART Pass. And uh we have been told and we hope that that it does come to fruition that there are truly gonna be car paths. But if we look at uh Uh we look at this uh We

   5:07:34I did a little diagram here so it can show you what's going on. So And one the red arrows, as you can see there, the the main road going all the way through the through the middle of the pitcher is Fairway Drive. The red arrows show the first nine and the routing that would need to take place. You see the two on the far left of the of the pitcher. Once you're done hole two, you have to get on Fairway Drive and go all the way down to See where the the three arrows are in the middle? You can see

   5:08:04the red arrow comes down and you go to hole three there. That takes about forty-five seconds, so there's a drive along there that that that has to be done and that's on a road where there's joggers, there's there's bikers, there's kids with bab there's women with baby carriages that hits a residential road with no sidewalks. So and the current um plan the current layout for all of the holes uh in uh Saddlebrook it with the exception of three crossover points, all of the all of the the the travel between holes is done

   5:08:34on the golf course. It doesn't come on the road like it is here. So carrying on with number number uh with the with the red arrows, once you're done hole three, well then you gotta get back on the road again to get to hole four. And you can see the red arrow that goes up up there again. So you go around and play those holes in that area, then you come and you get to hole seven you can see a green arrow. I chose to do that green because from hole seven to get to hole eight you gotta get back on the road again. And you gotta get the whole eight. And then after

   5:09:04Down Hole eight. You get off you get back on to Fairway Drive. And you go back down and you intersect with the golf course again back down the left hand side. And that's just one nine. Um T T times and golf at Saddlebrook are every eight minutes. So you can have anywhere from two carts to four carts depending on on who's playing. uh on the road for only that tea time. So every eight minutes this happens. So you've got travel going

   5:09:34both ways. A real safety concern for people who live in Fairway Village. The other arrows, the other purple arrows show the the routing in the in the third nine that that's been proposed where you come from hole twenty. twenty-two going to hole twenty-three and you get into that crowded area where there's three arrows with golf carts going three different directions all crossing like that and it happens every eight minutes. Then

   5:10:05you go around, you play twenty-three, you play twenty-four, twenty-five, and then you gotta get back on the road again. to get to hole twenty six. So I guess I just wanna point this out and and I know that uh our friends at Mast who have been They al they they always listen to concerns and they always come up with a plan. And we just want to make sure that the plan As it stands, doesn't include fairway roads. It does include double car pass in some areas and certainly car pass

   5:10:35to keep the traffic that's on the goal of course away from the resident traffic that we have there in Fairway Village. Thanks.

   Starkey

   5:10:45Can I ask a question?

   Patrick Hogan

   5:10:46Sure, go ahead.

   Starkey

   5:10:47Are you saying you don't want golf cart traffic on your roads?

   Patrick Hogan

   5:10:51We're saying we don't want golf cart traffic on the roads between holes. Now what what what uh what Uh we we right now we have crossover points between the roads. For example on the Palmer course you you we do that. But now as it stands with that with the way the the proposed layout is, they're actually traveling on on fairway roads to get from for example from hole two to three, you get on a fair you get on fairway drive. From from three to four,

   5:11:21you get on fairway drive. From seven to eight, you get get on Fairway Drive.

   Starkey

   5:11:25Do you prefer that the golf course go away? Or

   Patrick Hogan

   5:11:27no

   Starkey

   5:11:27I

   Patrick Hogan

   5:11:28No, I'm saying that I'm saying in part of the renovation should include a cart path. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying is a cart path remedies all this. But but to put all of that traffic on on the on the on those roads, that's that's a lot of cart traffic on on the roads. It becomes a a safety hazard. Because between those roads where Mr. Reely and I live, we go we go through that area to get from the the the start of uh Saddlebrook to where we live. Okay, that that that's fine.

   MarianoChair

   5:11:58Yeah.

   Patrick Hogan

   5:11:59Anything else?

   MarianoChair

   5:12:00Um thank you for showing it. There's actually some longer trips on the other side too, but um I'm I'm sure Reese Jones will t be taking a good good look at everything and uh improve this.

   Patrick Hogan

   5:12:11Thank you.

   Starkey

   5:12:13Okay. Um I'm going to call uh Andrew Andrew Pines next.

   Andrew Pines

   5:12:26We got six months.

   Starkey

   5:12:29How much time do we have here?

   Andrew Pines

   5:12:30Six minutes.

   5:12:33I need to reintroduce myself and address Andrew Pines, [address removed]. Uh Leslie Chaffel. Hi, I'm sworn in. Thank you.

   5:12:45So I'd like to address the email that I sent to all of you last night. Um and most importantly, I bought into Saddlebrook a year ago just about a year ago. I bought on the history. I bought on the vision of what's possible here. And I think we've been at this. Because we are all committed to the same goal, which is to make Saddleburgh great again. And it has incredible potential. And as Larry pointed out, all we're asking

   5:13:16for is accountability. Mass Capital, many meetings, says Barbara Otaku, did showed all kinds of renderings, really promised the residents and the condo owners everything of what this place is gonna look like. And I imagine in your mind you have a vision of what Saddlebrook will look like when it when they're all finished.

   5:13:39Yesterday the president of the condo association, I'm a I'm a condo owner Emailed us asking to email every one of you in full support of Mass proposal.

   5:13:53It wasn't until 5 35 P. M. that we received I received, and from what I've heard from other condo owners, the actual costs associated with upgrading our Condo units. From what they presented in the pictures and the estimated costs originally, the numbers have now doubled. So the calculations that we had was that the condo owners were gonna spend twenty five million dollars collectively, and

   5:14:24yeah they have seventy five of them, they'll do their part. to renovate and upgrade Saddlebrook. to the level four plus star that we're all envisioning for this place. Now let's just estimate they're asking us to spend fifty million dollars. of our money to renovate without any additional support on their behalf. The only reason we're talking about busin you know, business issue between owner and and and

   5:14:54investors is because they came to you asking for special approval. for rezoning for the Golden Goose. We all know. There's no secret here. Area one is where the fortune's gonna be made on this and where they're gonna r make a nice return on their investors. And possibly, you know, if there was an earn out from what I've heard to the Dempsey family. Well capitalize as well. on the plans for area one, which is wonderful. I'm all for big b for business succeeding. I

   5:15:24want Saddlebrook to succeed. They've asked us now to go from twenty-five million to fifty million to renovate this resort that they bought, and yet they're not committing to one dollar. In fact, they want, like Larry pointed out, to be able to develop up front And only commence down the road. Jordan in our meetings had said to me, We can't expect the condo owners to invest unless we match them with investment in the resort and

   5:15:54all they're saying is yeah, we'll update the lobby, we'll update the restaurant, we'll update the meeting rooms, which is all well and good for the owners of the resort, but as the condo owners, where's our matched resort in the things that matter to us? We want a four star pool. We want a membership, you know, we want newer looking you know, everything that we use and come and experience and we want our return on investment and the things that matter to us. But there's no commitment from them. Larry's

   5:16:25proposal to change it have this place ready four star like you showed us in the pictures When you're ready to get going level one is completely reasonable. That's all we're asking you for your help. Commissioner Oakley. The day of your wedding. You expressed it. you know, support the you will hold them. aca you know, uh accountable to what's best for the county. And I really appreciate that. Thank you. Commissioner Weightman.

   5:16:57I know you grew up here. This is your district. Right? I can't I can't imagine you expected a decision of this in your first year of sitting in this scene. So my heart goes out to you and I thank you for your support on such a huge issue in your own district. Thank you. Jack. Thank you. Just thank you. Commissioner Starkey. We share a lot in common. I my family also I come from very successful developers.

   5:17:28So I do understand and appreciate your commitment to growth and development in this county. Thank you. And to Commissioner Bradford, you're listening in. I would tell you if I had two hours we could sit down and I could give you all the clues. To solving this one?

   5:17:46But unfortunately this process doesn't allow for it. I appreciate the extra time to speak for this. At the end of the day, again, we're all committed to the same thing here. We're just asking for a little bit more help to create win-win-win so that your vision that you have. First Adlebrook. gets put in writing. With some dollar commitments, today the worst case scenario is still possible. They get approval for the front. They commence things in

   5:18:16the front. They turn around. flip this thing, make their profits, go all the way back to Miami, return their investors in two years, probably double their investors' money. They possibly get their earnout. No more left. still without Saddlebrook getting to be the four plus star that they showed us, that they've sold every condo owner, every resident, all of you everyone on of what Saddlebrook is possible. Please

   5:18:47help us. get them to honor their commitment to match that fifty million dollars that they're now asking us to put into this resort to v revitalize it. It's just not fair that it has to all fall on the condo owners and they're not being held accountable to a similar type commitment. Thank you for your time.

   Starkey

   5:19:08Okay, that was the end of the list with the special timing. So um moving back to here, so Keith Swope. You were signed up for both.

   Keith Swope

   5:19:27Hi Key Swoke, [address removed].

   Starkey

   5:19:33And were you s sworn? Ma'am. Can you state whether you've been sworn? He

   Keith Swope

   5:19:37swoked at [address removed]. Were you sworn? Were you sworn? Oh I wasn't. Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you. You were? Yes. Old death mail, I'm sorry. Thank you. Uh I wanna make it really fast. This will be really easy for you to do. Uh There are a lot of things I want to happen. Ms. Starkey said it earlier, she was saying that when we first met, she said, I like it, but it needs to be greener. That front interest needs to be green. And that's what we want. We want it nice and

   5:20:07pretty. Back down some of the apartments, maybe even take the top story off of if you had from four to three story, you get rid of twenty-five percent of your parking, you got twenty-five percent more green. How are you doing? Move everything move all apartments over to section two. I mean, I don't care if you got twenty stories, first five stories parking. You know, make everything else whole place free as well, I'm sorry. Move move the town as it's over the con the townhouses over on our property, whatever it takes, but make

   5:20:38it further. The second thing, if they're gonna have division road in, they said the division road will be finished before they start doing the apartments. I if that's the case, great. You don't need our road. If that's the case, use the vision room. Everybody says it's good right. Come out, they go this way, they go that way, go all these ways. Perfect. Don't use our road. If you do those two things, you're going to have a lot of people that aren't sitting up here complaining and wasting your time at 7 o'clock

   5:21:08at night because they'll be really happy with you. Thank you very much. Good night.

   Mike Carballa

   5:21:12Thank you.

   Starkey

   5:21:13Okay next. I have signed up Nancy Foster. Oh she might have left. She does okay. Barbara Thun Thunberg.

   5:21:26Okay. And the next one is uh Greg For heal? He's passing too. Robert Rahel, did you want to speak on this one?

   5:21:40Okay. And then I saw Lily Zoo, she left. Um so that is all we have signed up uh for public comment.

   MarianoChair

   5:21:48Did anyone else want to speak? Please come forward? I know you had a question earlier, so sorry.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   5:22:07Thank you everybody. I just want to make sure um name

   MarianoChair

   5:22:09and address and whether you've been sworn for the record, please.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   5:22:12Karen Havlin, [address removed]. And yes, I've been sworn in. Thank you.

   MarianoChair

   5:22:19Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   5:22:21A couple of things about the entrance up at the top of Saddlebrook. Yeah the traffic issues that I don't think the traffic report took into consideration. is when people come to Saddlebrook, they stop at that front gate. They talk to the gate person, they tell them why they're there, where they're going. and if it's a guest to the resort, they get a they get a a parking pass that goes in their car. So there is a There's a delay. It's not

   5:22:51like a regular gate at other communities where people pull up and the gate goes up and they go in. And I don't think the Traffic. um studies considered that. The other thing I don't think the traffic studies considered is during those periods when they have golf tournaments and they have conventions there. You know, you've got when you fill up that resort of three hundred rooms, you've got close to a thousand people coming in the gate. And these people are coming from airports and s and things like that. And if they have to check out at

   5:23:21six in the morning just to get out the gate to make a ten o'clock Plain. It's not gonna be their favorite place that they're gonna write reviews on. Um So I wanted to talk about that. Um again that's not considered in the traffic report. And then Also I am I'm a condo owner, hotel condo owner. And I desperately want um the resort to succeed and I am one of those people who is ready to put down our our

   5:23:51piece into that fifty million dollar investment. Um

   5:23:58But, you know, we talked about our place as a security and I'm thinking back to two thousand two when we took a mortgage out. and we bought our condo and we went in and we brought in our own silverware, our own uh bedding, our own everything to make that place our home for those forty five days and actually Forty five days is only if you own one unit. We own two units, so we actually get ninety days. Some people have three units, so

   5:24:29they can actually stay there for a couple of months. So um this idea that it's a securities or something, that's the first time I'd heard that. I've never thought of it that way. Um But um I think it is important that while the resort is under renovation, we are paying the property taxes on our condos. We are paying condo association dues on our condos and then in addition to that we're paying resort fees every

   5:24:59month on our condos, even if we only use them forty-five days out of the year. So we're putting a lot of money into that resort. Um And and and we're not asking anything in return from the county. We're not we are not um putting our kids in schools. We're not looking at social services, um, we're not using the libraries and all the other things that go with um the property taxes. Um so Saddlebrook is a huge moneymaker

   5:25:32for the county. I read somewhere, and you may probably already know this, but ninety percent of tax revenues that come from high density population units like apartment units and stuff, go back into the social services. It's spent back on those properties. So the return on investment when you go into these high density apartment complexes, according to other municipalities. They are the biggest money drain. on your municipalities. That that is what I have read in my research

   5:26:02and um So I invite you to also consider that. But properties that are residential single homes. Um what they pay in taxes may be a lower amount. to a big apartment building, but they don't cost you the c the doesn't cost public services the way uh high uh density uh communities do. Okay. Anyways I I thank you very much for your time. But I I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts on that. But I'm also one

   5:26:32a win win for uh Saddlebrook.

   MarianoChair

   5:26:35Okay, thank you. Anyone else in the others want to speak? We he just did that. Come on up.

   Robert Dempsey Really

   5:26:44Again, uh been sworn in [address removed], Robert Reeley. Um just kinda what what she was mentioning there, uh I actually sit on the Tourist Development Council board um in that chair once a month for uh Commissioner Weightman City and with uh Jack. So I I know full well how important the uh the tourism industry is to the county. It's uh it's it's grown a lot in the six years that I've been on the board. Um it's the the investment that is going to be that is needed to re revitalize the

   5:27:14resort tobacco and I grew up there is what is gonna be necessary from this development. They need that kind of development to to spur this kind of um the the ch the tax dollars the generated that that we um can possibly do to get back to where we were, th this is necessary for that. And we'll also create jobs in the office space, the retail and more jobs at the resort, which right now, you know, it's uh Occupancy is low,

   5:27:44the pot the higher occupancy, the more employees that you will have for the county. Um and as far as like you know I heard about this earnout thing, so I just wanted to mention on that, um, you know, I've toured probably two dozen companies personally of buyers of the property when we were selling the property. Every single one of those was going to Do more develop than Mass was gonna do. They were going to get rid of the school, and most of them were going to make it a change, which everyone here would have hated more than

   5:28:14everything that's going on. This was a conversation we had with our family, and we decided that's partly why we wanted to go with Mass because they were gonna keep the Saddleburgh legacy, because they were going to keep the school. And the earnout process was just a a function of speeding up the negotiation rather than arguing how much that land is worth because it needed to be rezoned. And the last thing that that no one has actually said I think this entire time is that if we make this resort a four or five star resort like it should be, every

   5:28:45single home value in Saddlebrick is going to be worth more. You know, if you have the access to have you know, uh you're on the proximity of a five uh four or five star resort and you can drive your golf cart there which other people can't do and you have memberships, every single house at Saddleburgh will be worth more money. Yeah on that side.

   MarianoChair

   5:29:06Thank you.

   5:29:10Anyone else from the audience want to speak? Anyone on Webex?

   District Five Chairman

   5:29:15There's no one else on buttons.

   MarianoChair

   5:29:18Uh back to staff. Matter of fact if I could

   Jane Graham

   5:29:23Well doesn't Barbara get

   Starkey

   5:29:24remote?

   MarianoChair

   5:29:24Yeah but she will. Staff um Barbara. I'm gonna bring David up and if you wanna talk first, that's fine. Right.

   David Engel

   5:29:46Hello again, David Engel, Economic Growth Director.

   MarianoChair

   5:29:49Hello, David. Jane Graham when we had met we had sent you a uh copy of what the conditions they w would like to see. We talked about instead of being the three hundred and first unit going to the first unit and then not having fifty percent of the Condel units but a hundred percent of the third party owners all factored in. How did those conversations go?

   David Engel

   5:30:10Well, if you recall, Commissioner, I had uh broached the subject of maybe going to a time certain stipulation. But I looked at it and there's issues if there was a force majeure or some type of uh state of emergency in Florida which would effectuate uh a problem with that concept. So we didn't pursue it any further. I had no discussions at any time on 351 down to 301. Um nobody asked me to look at that and I didn't really perform an analysis.

   5:30:41Um I looked at it though and the and the fact that There's a fifty-three million dollar investment on the resort. I don't know what the financing vehicles that Mass is using. They didn't provide that information. So I believe and we do this with economic projects, allow a latitude of cash flow. And I I thought that potentially some of the cash flow generation up in Area One would help underwrite the financing on the resort itself. So I

   5:31:11didn't really get into anything further than that.

   MarianoChair

   5:31:15Well I wish you would have because it was a very important one to the residents. So let me ask you this. When we look at the cash flow, et cetera, as one of the ladies uh the ladies just mentioned, She's one who's probably well to do if she can pay her renovation. There's probably a whole bunch more that can. So I would like to have the opportunity for those people if they Agree. go to the terms to be able to get to construction right away. It's good for the resort, it's good for them, it's good for Pasco County. Um have you thought about that angle where again it wouldn't be out of

   5:31:45n mass dime, they're gonna pay the freight. Well uh so why wouldn't we be able to go that way and

   David Engel

   5:31:49focus on that? Maston and I talked about that and they did agree, if if available, to have a financing vehicle or mechanism within the renovation plan. And that's stipulated, I think, in condition thirty-two.

   MarianoChair

   5:32:02You missed my point. I'm not asking for a financing plan. I'm telling you. people that can pay for it and will pay for it. that why don't we put them in a plan where they can get their renovations done right away like they'd like to timing

   David Engel

   5:32:14mechanism.

   MarianoChair

   5:32:15The timing mechanism so if if you if you sign up for the plan You have the money, you can go, you can get get the renovation started immediately.

   Starkey

   5:32:23Is that is that our place to be telling

   David Engel

   5:32:26It's not a good thing. I generally don't get involved in that type of micro detail.

   5:32:34We we've never done that before.

   Starkey

   5:32:36I I I just don't understand this invasion to someone.

   MarianoChair

   5:32:39It would be so start let's stop for a second. I don't want to go too far, because let's think about this. What's the difference of you're gonna say it's gonna be three hundred and fifty one units? Three hundred units or one unit? Or if the people It's right here. You give that conditions right now on numbers.

   5:32:58And I'm talking about this is

   Starkey

   5:32:59shocking. I I'm so embarrassed that we're even in this discussion. I I mean I I I I businessman, businessman, you know. Business people understand cash flow and what you're asking them to do when they're already cash flowing so much without getting it back now. I I I just even just wanna call it the freaking question.

   MarianoChair

   5:33:21Are you missing are you missing the point? I'm saying the people that will pay their money for their own ri building that they own to get it renovated now instead of waiting three years. Do we want to look at a plan for them?

   Starkey

   5:33:32Are you gonna are we gonna go into every business in the county and tell 'em how to run it?

   MarianoChair

   5:33:36You tell me the difference between three hundred fifty one, three hundred one, and

   Starkey

   5:33:39no, I uh you can one of those finance guys, I think one of those guys went to Stanford and has an MRS from a school as good as my son's school. He c he could probably tell you how much that would cost and I mean that's millions of dollars. But on top we've already cut them back from uh we took those condo those town homes out in the front. I mean we keep whacking them on the bottom line and bottom line and

   MarianoChair

   5:34:04bottom line.

   Starkey

   5:34:06It's it's yes we did. We they took out townhomes at the entrance.

   MarianoChair

   5:34:10I'm talking about right now my conversation is not even about them spending a dime.

   Starkey

   5:34:14You

   5:34:14got

   5:34:14two commissioners over there.

   MarianoChair

   5:34:15Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Chairman.

   Weightman

   5:34:18Yeah, I'm I with all due respect, Chairman Mariano 'cause I we're wading into a territory that I'm not comfortable with on the the money piece. This is a a business transaction. We're looking at Zoning. But to your point on the number of units for a CO Or my question, so the three hundred and first unit. So with three hundred and one units may be for the applicant. I'm not sure I'm not sure what So

   5:34:49when the th the three hundred and first unit comes online Does that mean three hundred and one people have moved in? Well those are two two the two And

   David Engel

   5:34:59those are three hundred and one households that have moved into area one. Fifty percent of the private units that have opted into the renovation plan will be completed.

   Weightman

   5:35:08So it's three hundred and one physical moved in.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:35:13Well

   Weightman

   5:35:13COs. CO. So just because there's a CO doesn't mean there's people physically in there. That's what I want the clarification on. So if we get three you hit three hundred and one COs, that means you could be however long down the road before you start leasing the project. That's what I'm looking to get clarity

   David Engel

   5:35:32on here. Well the the clarity, Commissioner, is that at the 301st CO, 50% of the units that have opted into the renovation plan will be complete. At the conclusion of Area One, all of the renovations will have taken place and the resort will be open for business.

   Weightman

   5:35:49So that's a pretty tight time line. That's not three years down the road that's what's being in inferred unless somebody tells me I'm I'm I'm wrong. I again I'm I'm very concerned that we're We're wading in too deep. in this in in in the business matters of this. I understand

   5:36:13advocating for the consumer and the resident. But there's a major business transaction here that we need to be s sensitive to. And I can't imagine as a as a business owner I would be pretty I'd I'd I'd be I'd be struggling at at this point in time, no matter your value. Uh So to be clear the the three hundred and one units that triggers COs but that doesn't mean three hundred and one families have moved into those those and

   5:36:43so if that's the case I guess this is a question for mask fifty three. What's your plan? Is it your plan to capture those three hundred and one COs? Uh-huh. What's your timeline of rolling folks in? I think if we understood some potential clarity on that then that would all see the timeline with what you're doing with the with your road expansion to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard and to the project at the work in in in the resort if if If we could get some clarity on on that piece, I'd I'd be grateful there.

   MarianoChair

   5:37:15Mr. Chairman M while they're coming up.

   5:37:19Having a stopper is reasonable, which is what the three hundred and one units is, in a in any development condition, because you don't wanna have what used to be referred to as a throwaway phase. That They built what they wanted to build and it doesn't it's not economically vi or they don't have to economically proceed and you don't get what you want. The government doesn't get what it wants as part of

   5:37:49the deal. But that stopper has to be reasonable for both sides.

   5:37:58And so i I'm just trying to assuage your concern about why it's in the deal I'm not necessarily arguing that Well, I am arguing that 301 is probably a reasonable stopper for this sort of a project.

   Weightman

   5:38:13I'm not it's not the three hundred and one It's it's it's the work around the three hundred and unions. COs versus people. Like what's the is it folks in, folks out? Just kind of people. But it's it's it's a it's a C it's a certificate. So that means it could still be time before physical people are living, potentially living in that Project there. there.

   MarianoChair

   5:38:39And there could yeah, I mean they're rebuilding occupancy

   Weightman

   5:38:43commissioner.

   MarianoChair

   5:38:45The average occupancy rate in probably Western Chop is like ninety-eight percent. So how long do you think it's gonna be before they fill up?

   Weightman

   5:38:51I mean we're asking asking some pretty in-depth questions.

   David Engel

   5:38:56Well, the sunny side of this discussion is is that The units will be under renovation before the 301st. That means fifty percent have to be complete by 301. Okay.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:39:10Commissioner

   David Engel

   5:39:11Oakley.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:39:14I don't want to get involved in the uh mass operation of how they're gonna handle those units. The fact of it is is to the benefit of the citizens, the residents there, en masse. to make this project, the best project they can make it. Because they can't turn a dollar outside of there until they put it the way it should be. And I think what you're gonna find, you're gonna find A very well built Saddlebrook. That's a modern age

   5:39:44saddlebrut that's different from the one that was in in the eighties. And you're gonna see that. thrive in this new economy that we have now. And I I think they're going if if they don't take care of traffic and they can't get people in and out of there, guess what? They're not going to rent anything in there. It's not gonna happen. They're gonna look at traffic. As they're building and having construction in different areas, they're gonna be paying attention and taking care of that to

   5:40:15complete a job that they are taking on. that cost a lot of money and They they can't just lollygag around. They've got a go forward and get this thing done or they can't rent up if those units aren't starting to be renovated. In the hotel area? They're not gonna rent 'em. Because nobody's want to stay in them because they're outdated. So you know good and will it's their purpose also to make that look as great as it can. and they've already

   5:40:45started some of those issues but you'll see more once they get through the system and and get started. But I I certainly believe Mass has the foresight to realize that if they don't do what's right about this project, they won't go anywhere with it in the future and they won't be able to make the money they could make if they do it the right way. And I think they're gonna do that the right way for the citizens that live in Saddlebrook.

   Barry Shine

   5:41:10Mr. I have a question.

   Starkey

   5:41:11Mr.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:41:12Sharkin.

   Starkey

   5:41:12Um well I I have a couple of questions on and uh you know, we haven't let Barbara do her rebuttal, but I don't know if she needs to. What?

   MarianoChair

   5:41:21Staff first. Staff first.

   Starkey

   5:41:22Well I don't know if I want to hear it. I think I've heard enough.

   5:41:27I think we're good. But I do have two questions. My contacts have totally given out so I can't even see anybody out there. Um Uh okay, doesn't mast um units too?

   Unidentified speaker

   5:41:39Seventy

   Starkey

   5:41:40five. Okay. And I think they're been buying, you know, there are they've been buying some. So they you know they want they want to fill their units. Yeah. So they got, you know, they want to make money on their units. But I did hear Jane say landscaping And parks. I I got comfortable with the trails, but I didn't I just wondering what wonder what was she speaking about about the landscaping coverage? Um also the um I

   5:42:10I did have a question on that lot coverage and uh that she showed that Matrix but That was gonna be one of the items under my commissioner items that I want to talk about, but I'm not gonna do it today. Um but can you talk to me about the landscaping and is there a um are you asking for relief from the county park ordinance here? Because I did I did not see something in the park.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:42:33So regarding neighborhood parks, the condition that was that Ms. Graham read to you is the condition that says we have to comply with the ordinance unless we seek any alternative standards. We do alternative standards under the park Clubhouses don't meet, aren't allowed to meet parking departments. I'm just saying neighborhood parks ordinance. I'm saying we have to comply through neighborhood parks ordinance. We can we Ms. Graham is right that we're not going to be able to Department projects do seek alternative standards to your neighborhood park ordinance because your neighborhood park ordinance, as I wrote it, It's wrong. because

   5:43:03you have the same requirement for apartments. Let's say you have whatever acres, you I'm just an average project, fifteen acres of for our apartment project, 300 units, you have to have three acres. So what percentage of that is of your land? We wrote the we wrote the neighborhood parks ordinance wrong. The same amount of land that you need for single family homes, if you have three hundred single family homes, you have to have three acres. Well the acreage for single family home development is much larger, so the percentage is a lot less. So it's not written right, but

   5:43:34what we've done is staff works on alternative standards. They're very proactive on it. They want to see quality. But we're not seeking in connection with the zoning any variation from the neighborhood parks ordinance. It'll be addressed with the the plans. We have mudroom requirements on top of that, so we have a lot of those things to go through. With regard to landscaping, we have provided the enhanced landscaping on Saddlebrook Way way beyond what the code requires. Um yes you heard that commercial could go there today. Um that's true. We could do

   5:44:04a strip plaza and out parcel. I never say this because that sounds like a threat or something we could do, but we could do a basic strip out there with out parcels and then we could have Senate w 102 housing out there. So So i but again, I always sound like a threat, so I don't even want to say that, but I I didn't bring it up. Um it was brought up by Ms. Graham, so I wanted to respond to it. This project doesn't allow us to do those things anymore. It doesn't allow for Senate Bill one oh two um housing, it doesn't allow for anything strip, it allows

   5:44:34for a very nice, high quality village center and doesn't just allow for it, it requires it. But

   Starkey

   5:44:39then won't pay. Landscaping in the parking lot. I mean you're following all the rules. That's correct. And that's correct. You know, this is a you know hope hopefully back to a five-star resort. I would imagine you're gonna have five star landscaping packages.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:44:53Yeah, you've seen the renderings which are rendered for this project, not just something we took off the internet. Um it's their front door too. So

   Starkey

   5:45:00okay, on the parking, are you at 2.2? And is that because you have retail and commercial? Down there besides the unit?

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:06So 2.25 is your code requirement. Um that's your code. We vary that.

   5:45:14Do alternative standards for most all excuse me, not most most well I should say but there's a couple that have complied. Um for all of our apartment projects we do a lot less than that. Your code's actually in the process of being updated?

   Starkey

   5:45:25One point nine

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:26and going it's going there's different ideas on how to get that parking right. So um we'll be subject to your code and and we don't want to overdo our parking either, so And m for the most like I say, your code today makes projects over park. Yes, I

   Starkey

   5:45:40agree. But

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:41we would

   Starkey

   5:45:42uh not in residential but

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:43in in

   Starkey

   5:45:44multi

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:44I agreed with you. In multifamily apartments. Yeah makes you ever park.

   Starkey

   5:45:49Um and so I would I guess you would be accommodating golf cart parking um

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:55yes which takes

   Starkey

   5:45:56place.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:45:56Remember we're putting that eight foot path in, you know, I heard the comment that um we're gonna the Vision Road's gonna push traffic where there's no sidewalk down in front of the golf academy, that's where the eight foot path is going. We're putting in that connectivity so that people can get back and forth from area one in golf carts, um where that doesn't exist today because there's no sidewalks. So I I did appreciate the comment, the questions, because I think questions are really good. I don't get a lot of questions. I get a lot of suggestions and a lot of opinions and a lot of I think's and

   5:46:27And can't really deal with all those things 'cause mass has to know, they can't think. But I did want to answer your questions about where the front gate is today and the fact that you have to stop and I've done that too 'cause I've come to your to your resort, um the fr the gate's being moved back, so the queuing will be increased. The golf tournaments and events, how to get out, that's always been a problem. It's 'cause you only have one way in, one way out. We with much expense, four or five million dollars expense are putting in a second access that you'll be able to that you as

   5:46:57a resident can get in and out of. But for event, people are events, they can get out. 'Cause you want 'em to come through the gate 'cause you want 'em to get their license plate and everything, but for people getting out, they can use it as second entrance. So I wanted to respond to your questions because they were good questions. Thank you.

   5:47:15I just wanted to say that, you know, i when you hear like little changes, just make a little change, those are these are big changes. And even I tried to buy, you know, I'm like, what about this and what about that? And they're like, explain to me, these are big changes, these are big things. But let me just tell you about something that means something to me. before they can have the first CO, which I agree is not moving people in, and if you want Aaron to talk about how you lease one of these projects, how you build one and how you lease them, because you don't just build a portion of a project, build the whole project. So it means that not only do they have to They can have a stop at three hundred and

   5:47:45one but they can't get finish that project until they finish everything else. So it's there's a there's a lot there. But Let's read what they actually have to do before that first CO in development area one or two. New driving lanes, three to four million dollars. Renovation of eighteen holes of golf course, six million dollars. Division Road, three to four million dollars. That's thirteen million dollars. before they can have the first CL. That's significant investment. Not only that, but they have to commence on all of these areas, which again Commencing

   5:48:15on all of it. You can't do it all at the same time. So you talk about phasing. The other thing, Commissioner Chairman,

   5:48:23Every resort owner, first of all, you're assuming people can't afford it, but n we haven't heard anybody say they couldn't afford it. Nobody's here today telling you they can't afford these renovations. Um But The way we structured the renovation plan language is that When you put the renovation plan out, you tell those owners, look, you have until a certain date to sign on so we can include you in our pool of units that are gonna be renovated, but they have to be phased. So I can't say that Unit one oh two.

   5:48:54perhaps could be the last phase of that pool and my client's got unit one oh three. Yeah 104. So it's complicated by the phasing, but we did want to make sure that we scooped everybody in. that wanted to get in and so as we phase by buildings, the people that want to get in will get in will get done. So I think it works its way out. Um we really were thoughtful about those things in that that were written in that condition about the renovation plan to make sure there was a lot of different practical commitments that made sure

   5:49:25that our resort owners were successful. Just like we're gonna be successful. I appreciate all the time you've all spent on this project. all your hours and uh we ask for your support. It's time for to to let um mast fly. Um we've worked so hard at putting everything together and it's it's time to let it fly. Let 'em do great things. Thank you.

   Starkey

   5:49:52One thing. Um we need to check. About thirty seconds after I told you there was no one on WebEx, I was informed that a Barry Sheen is on, but we have not heard anything, so I just need to call his name. Is that okay? Sure. So Barry Sheen, are you on WebEx for public comment?

   MarianoChair

   5:50:10I see him. Very muted.

   Starkey

   5:50:14Is this a three minute this is a three minute call? Are you there, Barry?

   5:50:21Okay, you have three minutes. So if you'll give your name and address and let us know if you've been sworn.

   Barry Shine

   5:50:26My name is Barry Shine. I have not been sworn.

   Starkey

   5:50:31Okay. Address. I cannot see him, but I guess if you raise your right hand, um, do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is a true, so help you God.

   Barry Shine

   5:50:40Yes I do.

   Starkey

   5:50:43Can you y okay, thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Sheen.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:50:47And what about his address?

   Barry Shine

   5:50:50Could you give your address? Uh my address is [address removed].

   Starkey

   5:50:57Okay, thank you.

   Barry Shine

   5:50:59Due my involvement as Treasurer and a board member of the California.

   5:51:06I have been very involved with manhattan. Oh

   5:51:23Well. Okay. Who area requirements?

   5:51:39the seating as a fairly village home. Because I not only own the investment property in the Watson village, I also own a very lovely home with a cross forest furniture. My wish as a homeowner would be for Matt to keep the golf courses, fix all their deficiencies, and make no other change. But that's a dream. It's a dream I know I can't achieve.

   5:52:10And if they're close to the process from the beginning, I know this is not possible, and it's still in the best interest. the most very well-built homeowners to support the revised development plan. As one of those fairway owners and there are many of us who are very much in favor of any mass hoop ahead, I urge you to support it. And that's all I thank you.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:52:40Up there.

   MarianoChair

   5:52:46So we'll close public. Closed again. Okay.

   MarianoChair

   5:52:51Question If you don't mind, I'll just Barbara one more question.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:52:56Mm-hmm. If

   MarianoChair

   5:52:57you don't mind let me ask Barbara one more question.

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:53:00One more question. And then we'll have my question.

   MarianoChair

   5:53:04So that's fine. Um and again, Barbara, I'm not trying to impede their redevelopment. And and the process they're gonna go through to take the Uh drive in arrangement have it built before they take the other one out before they start the apartments. I don't even care if they start on the other buildings over on the side road of Van Dyne, area two. So I don't want to slow you guys down as far as starting progress over there. Doesn't doesn't affect the resort. Doesn't matter to me. I know I'd run a see

   5:53:34them go. So I don't even care if there's any conditions to that, frankly. Um the access of I'm very happy we took care of that Friday. When I asked the question And again it's not meant to throw complications to the matters, but The way it's set, is there a way? to get all the owners that want to do to help them move along quicker, whatever the way that is. I just want to make sure that we don't limit it where it doesn't start for three years. I mean, I don't know what the plan how quick the plan is,

   5:54:05but if we can help it, I'd rather sit down with you guys to go work out a plan, to help expe uh to implement a a great permitting plan to speed up the process, to get the turnover, and let the people that have the money, that sign up quick, that want to go along with it, to help that get done quicker. It's important to them. The residents, and it's important to us. So I'm just trying to help with that mode. You've already got conditions in here. And I I re I firmly believe whether you say 350, 301 or one, there's something in

   5:54:35there. So there's conditions. But if there's a way we can help, and I don't even care if it's done right now, frankly, but I'd like to try to help to try to get it done so those renovations get done to help the resort thrive, to help Mass go b get better, help the people get better, and help our economy get better, every step of the way. So that's all I'm trying to accomplish at this moment for the people and for Mass.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:54:57that. It will be a big project. We know it's sometimes challenging with permitting and inspections and all those things. So we appreciate the offer to really If we wanna get past this point then we can roll up our sleeves and we appreciate that offer.

   MarianoChair

   5:55:11Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:55:11Thank you.

   MarianoChair

   5:55:13Mr. Wilkinson. I move approval.

   MarianoChair

   5:55:16Second.

   MarianoChair

   5:55:17Any further discussion?

   MarianoChair

   5:55:18And that would be with the revised conditions that were submitted

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:55:21by staff.

   Weightman

   5:55:24Commissioner Weightman. Thank you. Yeah, Mr. Pines was right that no walking in

   5:55:33Such a big big project coming in right out of the gate, but it's it's part of the job. But through this process I just, you know, wanna thank Mr and Ms. Barbetta, Mr. Pine, your family and um Mr Hogan appreciate y'all's time. We spent a number of hours together and uh very much enjoyed getting to know you guys. You know, Ms. Barbetta, your your advocacy is is fierce and Uh appreciate what you've done. and uh learn a little bit from you too sitting up here. So

   5:56:03I I I appreciate the time y'all put in and your passion for not just Saddlebok but for our whole community. You know, helps keep us in line and it feels good to know other people care as much as we do. So thank thank you all and then to Mass Capital uh

   5:56:22I guess welcome welcome to Pasco County.

   5:56:29You know, look, we're we're we're putting our name behind you, right? You're you've you've got something special. Mr. Dempsey chose y'all. Dempsey family's here. And uh we all have high expectations. I think that's you've heard us loud and clear. Don't let us down. Don't let the folks that live there down. I think you've seen You know, I'm kind of proud to be tip of the spear on boxing live local and what that means for multifamily, what it means for jobs and job creation and value of our community. So I don't move forward

   5:56:59in voting for multifamily projects lightly at all. Very deliberate. So uh you know let's get to work and and and build something great here and and and you know make the residents of South Book proud that y'all are there and you're their partner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:57:17Mariano.

   Starkey

   5:57:19Well um I I too wanna um thank Mass and the residents. It it was a long laborious um process but we got to the finish line and I and I uh I um you know I we had some dogged residents who worked hard for their community that got some very good concessions and you guys worked hard to get those and I appreciate Mast um worked With the residents. I can't remember how many meetings you guys said you had, but um

   OakleyVice Chair

   5:57:48plenty.

   Starkey

   5:57:49A lot. And so um I'm really thankful that you stuck with it and you're here in the county. And you can see how much these residents that are here love their community and and want to protect it. And I have faith that that through this process and through your Commitment that it's gonna be the Saddlebrook that we used to have. And like I said, I was there Sunday. Um my grandkids are guest playing in the uh big hockey tournament that's occurring this week.

   5:58:19They're in from uh the the West Coast, and um you know I I love Saddlebrook, but I can see that it needs a lift, and um I'm looking forward. to it and I I know the rest of us are. I used to go to Dempsey's for anniversaries. That was like the place to go in Pasco County for for an anniversary dinner, right? So um welcome to Pasco residents. We we will make sure that uh that they follow through and um I'm

   5:58:50just glad we're at the end of the meeting. We're not at we are not done. We have to stay and continue our meeting. I'm done.

   MarianoChair

   5:58:55Yeah, for thirty seconds.

   5:59:03I got nine

   Starkey

   5:59:04pies waiting for me. I think

   MarianoChair

   5:59:06we're sitting down so we'll be done. We'll we we might beat you guys out the door. Uh I'd like to say that uh you know for the residents uh Your arguments, your your concerns, and everything else, um you you represented yourself tremendously well. Um Uh Mast, I disagree with you a lot.

   Weightman

   5:59:27We know.

   MarianoChair

   5:59:28Uh but but you know what? We had these dialogue and for where we are right now compared to where before it is so much better. Um I I want to say with the land use I'm comfortable with that vote. I'm good with that vote, but I'm gonna support you in this one um because I I still believe that we can do even more good things down the road. And I wanna help you. With permitting, with everything else, with the development, because I want you guys to succeed. These people have invested,

   5:59:59but it's not just their money. It's their hearts, their souls, their families, etc. So I want to see you get better. Is it the way I thought it should go? No. But that doesn't matter. Right now we've got what's in front of us now. Uh we're going forward with it. I want you guys to thrive and I want to help you every step of the way. And as a united board I want you to know that tourism is very important, you guys are very important, that people are very important. So we want to make this thing go as strong as we can. So as much as it's been a battle. A long one, ruling, uh at least we're here. And Commissioner

   6:00:29Oakley, go ahead.

   OakleyVice Chair

   6:00:31I think I said it when I gave my motion, but I uh I really believe in the project. I believe Mass will will do what they say they're gonna do. I think it'll be great for the citizens. I can't hardly wa I'm kinda excited about it. I'm I'm waiting to go out and have a steak dinner like I used to have in a steak restaurant. I don't know if it'll be called Dempsey's, but whatever it's called, I'll be out there to eat. So but they've they've have a tradition in the past that will carry forward with masks doing what they're supposed to do and

   6:01:02and the residents uh uh you're gonna have a beautiful pla you have a beautiful place as it is, but it's gonna get uh doctored up a little bit with uh some newness in the modern day. So I certainly look forward to that and I I agree and That's I I'll be out there standing by you looking at what you're doing. So uh with that uh I just got the question. Did you did you make the motion? Yes, I said. I've already made the motion.

   Starkey

   6:01:35District one, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford. Aye. District 5, Chairman Mariano.

   MarianoChair

   6:01:46Aye. Motion passed the 5-0.

   Starkey

   6:01:48Okay.

   MarianoChair

   6:01:50People, gentlemen, good luck.

   OakleyVice Chair

   6:01:54Should be bangs. Well I'm going to Niagara Falls. I'm serious, I'm going to go.

   MarianoChair

   6:02:00Yeah, we're acting on

   OakleyVice Chair

   6:02:01it. Yeah.

   Pimata Rosecott

   6:02:04I will

   Starkey

   6:02:04minus my commissioner items. Um I gotta get those parts.

   MarianoChair

   6:02:08Uh committee reports are over. Um I will just say hey Chair Mike Carbella got one thing? Hey Chairman.

   Weightman

   6:02:14You sure you don't want to retalk about that one hour? We got three of us here.

   6:02:19No, that's okay, right. That one hour difference. Well you got the one

   MarianoChair

   6:02:23hour move moving time up one hour.

   Mike Carballa

   6:02:26I just need three.

   Starkey

   6:02:28No, 'cause we'd still be here. No, we're gonna fix this.

   6:02:34Go ahead.