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P15No disposition in the minutesPublic hearingPublished agenda

Zoning Amendment (Regular) - Saddlebrook MPUD Master Planned Unit Development - Saddlebrook Property Owner LLC, et al - A Petition for a Rezoning from MPUD Master Planned Unit Development and A-R Agricultural- Residential District to MPUD Master Planned Unit Development to Allow for the Development of 650 Multi-Family Units, 105,000 square feet Commercial/Retail, Tennis and Golf Academy, and a 27 hole Golf Course on Approximately 550.33 acres.

PDD-23-7646District 2

What the county recorded

Published agenda

Staff recommendation

Approval with Conditions

No disposition in the minutes

The approved minutes do not say what became of this item. That is a gap in the record, not a decision. It is the normal state for 24% of items. Most of those are regular business and board reports that the minutes do not dispose of in writing. This archive never infers an outcome from the fact that someone called a vote.

The source document

Published agenda

The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Jun 8, 2023

The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.

Approved minutes

The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Jun 8, 2023

The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.

This case, across meetings

PDD-23-7646 in full →

PDD-23-7646 was taken up 2 times between Jun 8, 2023 and Jul 11, 2023 — this is appearance 1.

  1. Jun 8, 2023PlanningP15No disposition in the minutesthis item
  2. Jul 11, 2023BoardP68Approved

What was said

Transcript

Machine transcription of 3h 8m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 91% of 783 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

Read it in the meeting →
Denise

We're now on P fifteen.

Connected City

Right now, which one then? P fifteen. Oh okay.

Amy Heiler

Good afternoon, Planning Members. Amy Toll with Planning and Development while we get the PowerPoint brought up.

So the item that you're about to hear today is Saddlebrook Resort MPD. It's PDD 23-7346. This is the companion to the PD that was previously heard and currently in the process. So the petition for the applicants are requesting a petition for MPUD Master Plan Unit Development and AR Agricultural Residential District to MPUD Master Plan Unit Development to allow for the development of 650 multifamily units, 105,000

square feet of commercial retail. a tennis and golf academy and a 27-hole golf course on approximately 550.33 acres. Subject sites located in the South Market Area and Urban Service Area.

Here's your aerial view of the location map.

And your existing zoning?

As well as your existing future land use, which is currently reflected as Res 6 residential six dwelling units per gross acre, the applicant is also proposing a companion comprehensive plan amendment to PD plan development on this portion.

So the applicant is currently requesting two variations from the code. LDC section 901.6 D11, street design and dedication requirements, design construction, continuation of existing street patterns and street access to adjoining property, as well as LDC section 805.6 restrictions on post-development wetlands and upland buffers within residential lots and non-residential parks. Yeah. So the staff analysis on both of these variations, uh so the first

variation being your street design and dedicational right-of-way, uh, the applicant has requested requested a variation to uh to have no interconnections uh to the east, west, south, and uh north to the property for the following reasons. Uh no interconnections to the west and east of development area two, um, which will be shown uh on the concept plane next. I'll show you where that is located. So development area two because those

areas are already currently platted. Additionally, no interconnections are proposed along the southern boundary of Saddleburgh Resort because that area is also a platted subdivision within Wiregrass Ranch, and no interconnections are proposed. to the eastern boundary for the same reason those areas are already a coded subdivision. So pursuant to the applicant's request, the PDD staff has reviewed these constraints of the golf course area and those accommodations and recommended

or has approved or supports, I'm sorry, supports the applicant's work variation request as it meets the intent of the code. And then additionally, 805.6, they are requesting the development areas of the wetlands, open spaces, preservations, for section 805, which establishes those restrictions to ensure that those areas are preserved. The applicant is requesting a variation from Area 1 and Area 2 due to the multifamily

residential parcels. Basically being under operation and maintenance and purview of the landlord or proprietor. So uh the applicant's request has been reviewed by PDD staff and is supported because it does meet the intent of the code as it seeks to place those operational maintenance oper opp maintenance responsibilities under the single ownership of an entity.

So as promised, this is your uh or this is the applicant's requested um or proposed master plan. Um I wonder if this works

Does it work? No? Okay. Um so the area one is going to be your area to the um northwest of the parcel. Area one is primarily going to be your mixed-use much rum area. Uh area two is going to be the purple area to the east. Um that's going to be uh additionally um m uh multifamily component as well. The yellow area you'll see as area three which is going to be your tennis areas and the

orange is also part of area three which is going to be your condo resort. And then the shaded area within this master plan is area four which is the golf cart or golf course facility. Right now should go into the binding plan. Yep, so this is your binding the proposed binding conceptual plan. As you see the applicant has uh provided this to show in detail what the multifamily uh development is going to look like in both the

uh area one and area two as well as the Mutrum component a part of area one. And the re what it looks like for generally looks like the relocation of the driving range to the southeast corner of the golf court air golf course area.

And here's just a visual review or a little zoomed-in area so you can see in a little bit more detail the components of area one being the 75,000 square feet commercial retail, approximately 465 dwelling units for multifamily, and approximately 35 dwelling units for a townhome.

And then development area two zoomed-in version, which is proposing approximately 25,000 square feet of commercial retail and 120 dwelling units for townhomes.

And then area three and four as denoted is the uh driving range, proposed driving range, and the upgrade to the tennis area and the resort.

And your findings and facts are identified in your agenda memo. Um I'm just going to kind of summarize these for the most part of what is being proposed. So currently the applicant developer is actually working with the Office of Economic Development or Economic Growth, I'm sorry, to finalize the Conda Hotel renovation program that they're they're working on uh to kind of meet the needs of the surrounding area and the residents as well. Also, currently the subject site is operating as a golf and tennis resort, which includes golf courses,

a pro shop, golf driving range, and related facilities. Additionally, there's 75 guest rooms in the main resort as well with swimming facilities, 31 tennis courts, 473 resort units, and you can see those in detail with the different villages. that are established within Saddlebrook. They are proposing new uses for commercial, retail, and additional dorms, upgraded restaurant, towns, homes, and multifamily, as well as upgrading

the clubhouse and the golf course facilities. As I previously stated, there is currently Res 6 future land use in place, but there is a proposed comprehensive plan amendment to PD that is running alongside this as well that will be heard in July. Bye.

It's located in the South Market Area and Urban Service Area as well as the Wiregrass Transit Center Overlay. There is an existing trail along State Road 54, which extends from State Road 54, or I'm sorry, State Road 58, 581, and Morris Bridge Road.

There are Category 1 and 2, 3 wetlands on site, the access. To the site is also going to be from State Road 54, as well as the applicant has agreed to construct a portion of Division Road H, which is identified on the master plan and the binding conceptual plan to provide additional access points to Saddleburg Resort specifically for Area One. And they are uh working on improving the vision road um outside of the project area from Bruce Bowns to State Route 54. And

area one is also going to be designed with a mixed use uh trip reduction method standards. And lastly, the driving range. Wanted to put this as a finding that it is going to be relocated from what is current what is being proposed as Area One to the southeast corner within the golf course area. And they proposed various upgrades to the Saddlebrook Resort amenities.

And the rest I think is okay. And then with that we recommend approval with conditions to the Board of County Commissioners. And I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

GreyChair

Okay. Anybody have a question for Amy?

Okay.

Amy Heiler

Right. Thank you.

GreyChair

And let's see how much time was it on this one?

Denise

Ms. Wilhite and her team have thirty minutes then plus rebuttal. Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

Good afternoon. Barbara Wilheite, 6327 Grand Boulevard. Um proud to represent Mass Capital in in this applicate these applications. For the record, I'd like to do a couple things before I forget, because I'll forget at the end. Um you were emailed uh last evening the uh private deed restriction um that Mr Girardi had requested that uh be made available today. So So I wanna wanna make sure that and then we also some support letters that have been received over time. I wanna make sure that gets into the record um

to receive and file.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Motion receive and file. Second.

GreyChair

Pardon me? Yeah, th it all it it's all for this one application, right?

Barbara Wilhite

Yes, I I yes. Correct. So we have to do it one time. So I also put in your dias today the um the binding concept plan so you can see it at a scale or you can read it, as well as the uh our PowerPoint. So again you can see that at a scale you can read it. So those three items for the record, please.

GreyChair

Okay. So we have a motion, right? Yes, so move. Second. Second. Further discussion? To receive and file. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Like signed. What's she curious?

Barbara Wilhite

Well thank you very much. We're happy to be back here. Uh we were here in the beginning of January when it was a new year of twenty twenty three and it's hard to believe we're almost we're halfway through. We've done a lot of work since we were here in January. We have had a a lot of meetings over time and I wanted to capture that in these slides of how many times we've met with the community and there are multiple meetings starting all the way back from l 2022 coming through 2023.

Up until it brings us today. Those are all set out in the PowerPoint that you have there. 30 plus meetings with different members of the Saddleburgh community. We did in person, we did virtual, trying to make sure that we do have a lot of residents in Saddleburgh that live other places as well. Seven town hall meetings, 14 meetings with three different groups. Since we had our first hearing before the Board of County Commissioners on the 7th of February, we worked very Very hard on a private deed restriction which Jordan Kornberg will

be telling you more about. Resort Saddlebrook Resort Condo Association who represents six hundred and fifty seven unit owners took formal action as their association and approved that that restrictive covenant deed restriction um and to support mass proposed plans And then we also worked with the coalition and a group of Fairway Village property owners, Fairway Villages, the the homes within Saddlebrook. And they also have approved that private covenant. Each

public hearing I know there was concern early on about how we noticed and uh so each time we have a public hearing we put up I think six signs, at least six, and we send over a thousand notices. So thousand households get notice every time we come for a public hearing.

We do have a pending comp plan amendment. That comp plan amendment, as I pointed out before, is not needed for our residential, our new residential development, which is the townhomes and the apartments. Currently, the comprehensive plan has a maximum of 1,779 residential units. As you can see there, we're doing 465 plus 155 for our new development. The reason why we did the complaint. amendments really to allow clearly allow for the resort and commercial uses. The Planning Commission recommended

approval of the pla of the comp plan in January. It went to the board and was approved in April, and then it went to DEO, Department of Economic Opportunity, who issued a no comment, no objection letter in May.

One thing that's very unique to this um endeavor is we've agreed to a binding concept plan and you have that passed out um on your dais and these are the rules. It says we're gonna follow um that binding concept plan. Obviously we are not at a construction level detail, so there will can be minor modifications that that staff can can from a construction plan detail that could they can adjust and approve. Um but certainly all the commitments that are on there are are still the same commitments.

And this is the binding concept plan that you have. And I do have my teammates that um the owner's representatives that are gonna present from here. Jordan Hornberg's going to present next, and then Aaron Landry.

GreyChair

Thank you.

Jordan Kornberg

Thank you all. Jordan Kornberg, I'm a managing director with Mass Capital. So if I can go back just to cover the areas again. Just you know, area one and two we covered. Area three, the difference from last time we were here, just to point it out, is area three had one big area. So we split it out into two separate areas, which we can touch on why and what are in those separate areas. But previously there was just one big area three. Now there's area three A and three B where we've delineated the different

uses that are allowed in each of those areas. And then area four is everything in white, which is the current golf course, which is where we're putting the deed restriction, and we specifically called out here the location of the driving range.

So, starting with the deed restriction, which covers the entirety of the golf course, you know, we we've agreed on this with the Resort Condo Association. We've worked with the coalition as well as another group of residents who have all signed off on the document. This is a 99-year document plus renewal periods, which restricts all that golf course land to be golf as well as ancillary uses, and you all have a copy of it to see what that actually means. Where buildings can go to ensure that all of these, the homeowners within Sallar Burk, and you

know, they are not gonna have a maintenance shed built in their backyard. That is restricted from this document and it can't happen. So, you know, this is golf course use, it's open space use, and if forecloses out, not just us, anybody in the future putting anything behind these people's homes. Um this document is with five separate associations within Saddlebrook. The reason we did it that way is frankly, for it to be amended, all five of them need to come together and agree to amend it. So I'd say

it's virtually impossible for this document to be amended, um, which gives it more security, which frankly is to our benefit as well as the owner of the resort.

Area 3A and 3B. So previously, again, this covered all of one area, which included 27 tennis courts that we use at the resort. And you know, obviously tennis is a rich part of Saddamport's history and very important for our go forward business plan. So what we've done in order to address questions that we received around tennis is split out 3A. 3B. So area 3A, which covers those 27 tennis courts, the only use that's allowed

there is tennis courts and surface parking, which is what the current uses are. And we've made a commitment that of those 27 tennis courts that are there today, 22 of them will remain. So we have flexibility to remove five of the current tennis courts to expand surface parking. And it covers other racket sport uses too, given the growth of paddle, pickle, et cetera. But the reality is tennis is obviously, you know, a big part of what Saddlebrook is in our plan. Area 3B is where we plan for a clubhouse. So

the the use and development that is not what was previously in all of area three is restricted to 3B. Today that is what was the steakhouse, what is the golf antennas, check-in, a fitness center, along with uh cart barn and resort maintenance. So it'll be all of those uses with enhancing. the clubhouse uh and the ability to do so with uh with what we're going for here.

The other big change that we've made is the question has always been raised to us about the linkage between the resort and the new developments. And so as part of our approval we've added in phasing conditions that give the protection that ultimately if there is development, there will be investment in the resort, which is a commitment that we have always made. So those three conditions, you know, which are shown here, the first one is before we can do any development in Area One,

we need to have moved and put in service the new driving range, which then obviously binds us to the golf plan because that changes the routing plan on the golf course. The second condition is that before we deliver our first unit in air either area one or area two, we need to have finished the renovation of eighteen holes of the golf course and gotten permits for and started renovation for the key areas of the resort, which include the conda hotel units that we own. the

lobby, food and beverage restaurant areas, ground level meeting space in the resort. And then the last condition says before we deliver the 351st unit in development area one, we need to have completed essentially all of those areas that we were starting the renovation of at the resort. So we've said we've ensured that ultimately for development to happen we need to make a significant commitment to the improvement of the resort to ensure that ultimately all of Saddlebrook will be improved

and see the investment that it we all know it needs.

GirardiVice Chair

Mr. Jericho can I ask you one question? Can you go back to that prior slide? So could you explain the rationale for three hundred and fifty one? What was that? Is there anything magical about that number?

I just d I mean, it just you have a total of four hundred and sixty five units in that But four I guess it's four hundred and ninety five when you cleaned the town home. So how did you come up with three fifty one?

Jordan Kornberg

I wouldn't say there was anything magical. I think the key for us was making sure that ultimately, you know, there's substantial commitment um in terms of we have there's enough left on the back end uh and at the end of the day it doesn't ultimately like restrict to and hold up the plan. So there was no I wouldn't say there was magic to the three hundred and fifty-one number. We felt like it was a a fair number that ensured you know No, the plans can continue all at the same time. We can't just get so far.

GirardiVice Chair

Do some of the rehab work in the resort or it's not based it's not a funding issue?

Jordan Kornberg

No.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay. Sorry, you've answered my question.

Jordan Kornberg

And then lastly, you know, this is a draft of our golf routing plan. Um, you know, we brought Rhys Jones on board to uh plan our renovation of the golf course. Uh you know, Rhys Jones is a world-class golf architect, uh the son of Robert Trent Jones. Bryce Swanson, who's on the line, works for Reese Jones. Um and we've charged Reese to come up with a 27-hole routing plan. Where you have three nines that can each stand on their own, so you have three separate eighteens that all go together, that all start and

finish at the clubhouse, and that every home within Saddlebrook that is currently on a golf course is still on a golf course and maintains their view. And so again, this is a draft that's in progress, but as you can see, all of the homes that are on golf course today maintain on a golf course, and it's come up with a Great twenty-seven hole design where each nine starts and finishes at the clubhouse.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I got one question real quick. So I I guess theoretically is there a chance that At some point in time there will only be nine of the thirty six holes open. So because you got the driving range and you got eighteen holes you got to renovate all at the same time.

Jordan Kornberg

So we've actually we had a plan where we had and it's been back and forth with members and residents. We held a members town hall where I think 150 people were present and what we were working towards was a plan to always have the driving range in 18 holes in operation at any given time. So we renovate nine at a time. What we heard after that town hall meeting was frankly that members were excited about these improvements and wanted to see it accelerated. So the request was to look at can

we accelerate the plans? And rather than always having 18 open, they'd rather have the new renovated golf course sooner. And so that at some point, yes, you potentially only have nine in operation. We still haven't finalized the path that we're going. Frankly, we were going down the path. path of the keeping eighteen open at all times for the benefit of residents, but what we've been hearing from them is they actually just want the improvements to happen quicker and would rather have only nine holes for a period of time and have these renovations completed sooner.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Okay, so so I just wanna make sure that the residents were clear on that 'cause I mean I I I would imagine I would have thought that the residents would wanna at least have eighteen holes that they could enjoy. So that would mean that nine holes are being renovated and and the driving range was but We that's fine. I you answer my question.

Jordan Kornberg

And we're still exploring both plans. We were we were equally surprised, I would say, um in terms of that, but I think it spoke to the excitement uh of seeing these improvements.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Okay.

Aaron Landry

Good afternoon commissioners. I'm Aaron Landry with Mass Capital, managing director with offices at 2601 South Bay Shore Drive, Coconut Grove, Florida, and I have been sworn. So one of the benefits uh that we believe our plan has is let me see if we can get this to work here.

Now we're

Yes.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Yeah, we can now better.

Aaron Landry

Thank you.

Thanks. Um sorry about that. Um is the enhanced connectivity. For better or for worse, Saddlebrook was designed and built with a single entrance in, uh as I'm sure many of you know having visited the property. Uh and as part of our plan, one of the things we want to do is propose a secondary gated entrance uh into Saddlebrook that would be certainly to the benefit of the existing residents within the community. Um also Well everyone who may or may not know, I mean, but uh given it's a single entrance, a hundred percent of the resort deliveries

have to come in and out of that main entranceway on Saddlebrook Way, which uh unfortunately adds to congestion onto a single entrance. And so, as part of our proposed plans, um, we we're also have the intent to have all of the service deliveries diverted off of the main entrance. entrance and use this secondary entrance road again which would still remain as a gated a gated entrance no different than the way the community exists today. And then lastly in terms of the multi-use path we are

providing for a connection for Saddlebrook residents as well as resort guests in order to get into the proposed area one. Um Saddlebrook today has you know virtually no sidewalks along the streets. Um anything we can do to try to improve that situation where you don't have people biking, walking, running, etc. intermingled with vehicles we think is a is a real benefit.

In terms of the larger scale sort of access management improvements, which certainly relate to transportation, there's a few we'd like to highlight. The first, and I I have a couple slides here beyond this that show it a little bit better, but nonetheless, State Row 54 and Saddlebrook Way, which is the main entrance into the resort, we're trying to are planning to add additional lanes, which would help with capacity. Hopefully eliminate some of the concerns around queuing, given that that is an intersection and there's obviously a

lot of people try to make left bound or a westbound turn onto State Road 54. Um also a a new connection of course um at our western boundary at State Road 54 and what would be the Colony Vision Road H. And then lastly which is an extension of the Vision Road but it and I'll be showing it in the following slides is a a further extension um to connect over to uh Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard.

So this is uh an image here of South Brook Way at the main entry, and as you can see, today there's a single left-hand turn lane. uh to make that left uh left turn or to go westbound on stay road 54 at the intersection. So we're proposing to add a second left hand turn lane and convert uh or create what would be a new right turn lane to go eastbound.

And then the vision road itself, this image here kind of shows where it connects along our western boundary. The portion of yellow that you're seeing along the western edge of our property, I mean that's approximately five acres of land that would be dedicated as part of being able to create this larger transportation improvement. And then you're seeing kind of, I guess what I would call is sort of the tail once it tapers off of our property to the west to connect over to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard. We think

this is important because it certainly gives people opportunity to have movements and be able to avoid the Saddlebrook Way main entrance altogether, frankly, to be able to go west andor to get to a different intersection by uh connecting over to the wiregrass ranch boulevard. um inter intersection. And just to be clear, it would be uh the two easternmost lanes as it once you leave our property in terms of that connection between our western boundary and the Wiregrass

Ranch Boulevard.

GirardiVice Chair

Mm Mr. Chairman Mariano? Yes. Can you go back to the slide? Yeah. Have you all had any conversations with the Porters or Wiregrass about the name for that road? Because I I don't imagine we're gonna call it Vision Road H for the rest of our lives. I Has there been any conversations about what it's I mean it's been called the Bruce B. Downs extension, the loop road. I there's always confusion about what it's gonna be named and then now I'm seeing three different names for this road. Mm.

Aaron Landry

So

GirardiVice Chair

we have you all had any conversations with them about what it should be named? W

Aaron Landry

not about names. We have had conversations about the coordination to be able to obviously create this, but in terms of names we have not.

GirardiVice Chair

Yeah, I would encourage you to do so. I don't think Vidon Road H is the greatest name for a road, so probably needs to be named something else. Okay.

GreyChair

And you're going to actually hit put that road in, is that correct? Correct. All the way to the

Aaron Landry

two the two correct. So we we would put the road in from State Road fifty four, uh as you can see to sort of the You know, again where it starts to taper off of our property, from that point on, going west towards Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard would be the two easternmost lanes.

GreyChair

Okay, and it'll connect to Wiregrass Ranch.

GirardiVice Chair

Correct. And then Wi Wiregrass Ranch is supposed to build it from Breeze Bowls five eighty one to Wiregrass Ranch Woolworth. Okay. The intent of this road originally was to allow you to basically bypass the 581 54 intersection, which is a very congested intersection.

Connected City

So you're saying from your property to Wiregrass Ranch Road you're be building two of those lanes? Correct. Okay. So the O2 lanes are going to fall on who?

Aaron Landry

Alternative the county when they when the capacity's actually there to warn it.

GirardiVice Chair

But that that's the same two lanes that Wiregrass has to build too. Right. It's it's starting out as a two lane road.

Moody

It's just like similar to like the cubeless where you build half road or half the right-way. Yes.

Connected City

They're building it basically offset. It'll become the eastbound two lanes. Okay.

Aaron Landry

I'll go over briefly area development area two. In principle, the concept or programming for this area has not changed from what was presented to you in January with both commercial as well as residential townhomes proposed. So for the site plan here, you're seeing, of course, the commercial outparcel that we intend to create fronting State Road 54 with approximately 120 townhomes tucked in the back. The only thing I would note, which I believe Amy referenced as well, which is we are proposing to have a variation to eliminate

the connectivity at the south end of the property, at the request of the community. Frankly, we've had several community meetings over. The last you know six-nine months, and they were very adamant that they did not want to have any connectivity as far as the ability for someone to walk, bike, etc., uh, into Saddlebrook, given that Saddlebrook is a is an existing gated community. Um, we do view this, you know, this piece or this development area, um, it really is standalone and is self-sufficient in terms

of it has its own amenities. Uh, there is no reciprocity uh between the resort and this area. So folks who would live here again ultimately have everything they need as it relates to their own amenities within their community and and don't and would not have access into Saddlebrook.

School District Representative

Can I ask a question on that? Yeah, I want to go back to it. Um I'm looking at the far eastern part of that property and it look I know there's a light there. Why would we not Put a light there. The main entrance is in the center of the property, but it seems like if you moved it further to the east you're gonna take advantage of that light traffic light that's right there. Just wondering why that wasn't done.

Barbara Wilhite

The property Barbara Will Hide, the property does not align with that uh intersection in that light where property's a little bit to the west.

School District Representative

Yeah.

Barbara Wilhite

So

School District Representative

Okay, it's a shame.

GirardiVice Chair

So are you done?

School District Representative

Yeah, thank you.

GirardiVice Chair

So my question was and I I guess I'm just it's in the conditions but I just wanted to make sure you're publicly stating this that The Board of County Commissioners is is developing architectural and landscaping standards for town homes and you've agreed to comply with whatever those standards end up being? Correct. Okay.

GreyChair

All right, continue.

Aaron Landry

Moving on to development area one. Similarly, the programming for this area hasn't changed from January. It will be a mixed-use village concept that we've come up with. We are proposing to make sure it's munrum with the following uses, obviously being commercial, multifamily in terms of residential as well as the townhomes. So for area one, uh I'm gonna focus on a few of the key changes that uh that that were made from the January uh hearing that we had with you all. I think the

first is, you know, originally we had there were uh there were some there was a residential building that was uh along the eastern boundary along South Wolf Way, and we you know given the concerns that were raised from the community, um we we were able to relocate that building. Away from the entrance, so everything that we could do to try to preserve and make sure that that arrival experience in the Saddlebrook remains as much as possible as it is today. If not improve it, we certainly try to do that. So relocating a

building was was a part of that. We also shifted as best we could some of the buildings a little bit further away from the entryway along Saddlebrook Way. A couple other elements were uh the guard gate design uh for the relocated guard gate. So today one of the you know unfortunate circumstances of the design is that anyone who's coming into Saddlebrook, even though it's a a guard gated community, um If you were trying if you're a guard and you're trying to turn them around because they don't have credentials to be there, unfortunately you have to open the gate and really hope

that they do a U-turn and are good, you know, good citizens to turn around and leave. But under our current design that we've implemented in here, we've ensured that the design allows for people to be turned away and still be able to turn around without actually coming into Saddle World. So that was a design change that we had made. Likewise with Development area too. This is a you know self-sufficient sort of development community, if you will. That is to say, in terms of its amenities that are proposed, this this area has its own central clubhouse

that would service the residential. It is not reliant at all on Saddlebrook resort amenities. There is no sort of de facto becoming a resident. Of Saddle Brooks simply because you live in Area One. And ultimately what we're trying to create is that vibrant experience where you really have really great interaction between the commercial, and we try to create what was a main street concept that you're seeing with the two red footprints, which are the commercial buildings fronting State

Road 54.

And so the this next image here is really meant to give you a sense of, you know, our intention is to really enhance what is out there today as you go into Saddlebrook. We recognize that the community certainly has been very vocal about wanting to make sure that it feels good as you come in. And so we think that we like and love what's out there today, and we think it can actually be improved with the vision of landscaping and sort of intensifying what was done there. The next is this is a rendering

of the village center concept, and you're seeing really an image looking effectively through the heart of the town center, looking in this case will be sort of northwest at a at an angle. The building kind of in the background, you're seeing the commercial building, which has ground floor retail, you're seeing a restaurant. You know, we certainly want to have those types of uses that we believe. As an amenity, not just for residents inside Saddle Rook, but also for you know, in terms of resort business that comes and people that patronize,

as well as others that are nearby. And then you're seeing kind of in the foreground here the residential component with the apartments along sort of the left-hand page of this image. The next image here, a rendering here, is a sort of a view sort of down the main street. as I have described in the past. This is looking towards, you know, ultimately what is the western boundary of the property and where the Vision Road would be sort of at the terminus in the far distance. But again, just another view in terms of the concept and environment

that we're really trying to create with our idea for development area one. And then lastly, uh this is a an image of the townhomes, you know, at the east side along South Book Way. Uh there's approximately 35 townhomes, and so this is meant to give us sense of the design direction uh that we want to create for that sort of small enclave of townhomes. And with that, that completes the presentation.

GirardiVice Chair

Can you go back to the prior slide and not this one but the one part of this one? Yes. So I guess my question is for both you and or Barbara. Um And Brad may need to weigh in too. So I know you've committed to this area being mudderum. My question is So maybe it's a question for Brad. I don't think Mutterum requires vertical mixed use. I know it requires mixed use, but I'm not sure it requires vertical

mixed use. But you're depicting vertical mixed use. Are you Willing to commit that it would be vertical mixed use or you uh I guess I'm not sure what your commitment is. So let's let Brad ask the qu answer the question about whether Mutter requires it to be.

Saez

Thanks. Uh Brad Tipp in planning development. Uh yeah, it does not require vertical mixed use. There is a mix that's required and depending on the space, a lot of times that ends up being vertical mixed use, but it is not a official mudderum requirement. So we can if they come back to the right-of-way.

GirardiVice Chair

Are worded, it doesn't necessarily require what is being shown in the pictures. So that's why I'm asking the question, are you committing to what's showing being shown in the pictures, or are you just committing that it'll be horizontal mixed use? I'm not sure what the commitment is, is basically the question.

Aaron Landry

So so the commitment in terms of what you see is what you get. So that ground floor is retail, you're seeing office above.

GirardiVice Chair

So you're committing to vertical mixed. So you are committing to vertical mixed use. Yes.

Barbara Wilhite

And to be to make this clearer. At one point we had our little when you look at your concept plan, your binding concept plan, these salmon color buildings used to have a label on them that said that. It's not there now. Um so we'll if that's part of your motion, we'll make sure that this gets labeled. These get labeled on this concept plan so that binds us.

GirardiVice Chair

But that the front two buildings will be vertical mixed use.

Barbara Wilhite

That's

GirardiVice Chair

correct.

Christopher Poole

Okay. So along those lines if Dave, are you done? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So if we could go back could could you all go back a couple slides? 'Cause when I look at the overall concept plan, number one, thank you for providing this much level of information. Yep, one more for it. No, one more for the right-of-way. So when I look at that visually, I just see a lot of surface parking. So kind of along the lines of what Dave and is Dave is asking is to eliminate some of that surface parking possibly,

and you know, this is the main entrance from Souterbrook that's coming in. Um first thing that people are gonna kind of see when they when they come into the world-class resort that it is, is there a consideration of possibly putting parking underneath some of the apartment buildings there or or or something just to kinda eliminate some of that surface parking and possibly get some more buffering along that primary access road that's that's coming in.

Aaron Landry

It is something we thought about, um, but I can tell you the the economics of sort of structured parking in this scenario simply does not work.

Christopher Poole

Okay. 'Cause it seems like there is just to reinforce that, it seems like there is opportunity to possibly get some more buffering along that road and yeah, I didn't have the opportunity as I I said before we talked the other day to to really look at this. But I want to look at this, I'm like, wow, that's seems like there is an opportunity there to possibly have a little bit more separation from that main road 'cause as as you made the point, these are separate you know, this is a separate use, this area from the the road. resort, so being considerate of that and people coming to your resort or

going to the resort, I'm just uh I'll reinforce what I said for consideration.

Barbara Wilhite

We have to go through a mudder which Which I go through with many clients and all of these things are discussed.

Christopher Poole

Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

the staff puts you know, gets their their Hands kind of sounds negative, but they really do work with to try to make sure that whatever can be done to make it the best place possible is done. And so we have a binding concept plan, we have a muddle code, and then we have staff. So and the residents I'm sure will be you know in involved as they we go through that process as well. So

Christopher Poole

Yeah, and of course, you know, we're not used to seeing this much information gonna be for us so I mean appreciate that the detail that's provided but given the fact that y we have this so much information, just some different ideas that we that we see because we're not privy to all that up front. So understood

GirardiVice Chair

so can I ask one follow up question. So then the seventy five thousand square feet of commercial is the thought that that would all be on the ground floor of those two front buildings? Or is there possible to be another commercial piece somewhere on this point?

Barbara Wilhite

So I look yes.

Aaron Landry

It's it would be concentrated in those two buildings between the the two floors and those two pink uh pink or red footprints of the buildings. So there's two

GirardiVice Chair

So all the commercial would be in the front of this area basically. Correct. Okay.

Connected City

Okay. I was I was just gonna say another thought could be to um the por that portion of the property there that's on the I guess it'd be the south side of the connection to the Vision Road. It doesn't look like it's right off the bottom of this particular um slide, but um it doesn't show that you have anything planned for that, so that might be a possibility of some redesign to be able to move some of the things uh some parking or maybe another building south to allow more parking or less parking in the front to give more of a buffer as well.

Barbara Wilhite

That concludes our presentation. We have the team available to uh answer questions now or after you hear some more presentation. So

GirardiVice Chair

Barbara, could you get somebody in your team to address

Why you concentrated more of the residential density in area one versus area two?

Barbara Wilhite

Sure. One is uh the answer to that is uh just the location. You're talking about a major vision road coming ultimately from Bruce Bowns up through and going to be along our western boundary. We're we are going to construct a portion of that. One thing we didn't say was When we talk about phasing and what has to happen when relative to golf and range and renovations at the resort. That portion of the Vision Road has to be constructed before the first CEO force units delivered in area one. So

that's another thing of the investment on the road connection happens before the first resident moves in in area one. So I wanted to mention that. But the design is is is village focused. It's it's the density that you need to have a village. If you if you drive around Pasco you'll notice that we have mostly um anchor based retail. with out parcels and it's all auto dependent and it's it's it serves people driving by, driving to wherever we go and we all stop in those

places. When you try to create a village center, you need density. I have a village center over on in Mitchell Ranch where the county wanted someplace special, they want a place, and it's a Main Street approach as well. It's got 600 apartment units. to support that. So that's the reason why it's the it's the support of making it something other than just out parcel retail on fifty four with anchor based um tenants and creating

a place. So we so you don't have national retailers where your your choices are Chili's and Longhorn and and Olive Garden. You have restaurants where people want to go and stay and eat outside and listen to music and have the ability to have festivals and markets and So it but the density is very important to people being able to have those type of businesses 'cause it's not out parcels oriented to fifty four and autodependent. Did I answer that adequately? And I know this because

I meet with so many clients who propose all different things, and so I speak because this is what I know based upon how you put these village centres together.

Connected City

I I have a quick question too. I d I don't know if your best to answer this or not, or maybe somebody else on your team, but um so the Vision Vision Road, um it looks like there's gonna be an additional right turn lane for eastbound fifty four. for it to access that road. Um but I'm not seeing a left turn lane being added for westbound fifty-four. So it um it looks like the the the entire project is

going to enter and exit off of the vision road. That is that correct?

Barbara Wilhite

I'm gonna have Steve Henry jump up here and he'll do a much better job.

Connected City

Yeah, so I mean it doesn't look like on the concept drawing there's a Cut through on the medium. Steve

Henry

Henry, Linkston Associates, 5023, West Lowell, Tampa. Uh you're correct. So today the the idea is that that would be a right in, right out. ultimately what's going to happen is that road's going to continue to the north. When it does continue to the north, it will then have a full median opening and be signalized. But at this point we didn't see the need in going through and putting a full median opening there. Uh it would require closing the median opening to the west that serves the Wiregrass Retail Center. So the idea is

today is to have that as a right-in-write out, design it and build it so that it ultimately can accommodate it. when it becomes a full median opening.

Connected City

So y do you you don't think it's gonna be necessary to have the the median opening for the amount of Traffic that's going to be generated by that heavy amount of residential use as well as commercial.

Henry

No, and we've run the analysis looking at it as a right in, right out. Uh you know, obviously what what this also does is it allows the those vehicles to get to Wiregrass Range Boulevard and to go north or south from there. So it does it does add that opportunity and and reduces the traffic based on that. And

GirardiVice Chair

Wiregrass Range Boulevard you can make left

Henry

out there. And that's that's why Grass Grange Boulevard is about to open up to the south. So it'll ultimately uh connect between fifty-six and fifty-four.

Connected City

Yeah, I was just wondering more about traffic that was coming from um from east on fifty four to be able to access the uh the development. But that's most of the traffic's gonna be coming from the other direction.

Henry

Correct, right. That we've we've run looked at it and most of it's coming from the west.

Connected City

Okay.

Christopher Poole

Steve, while you while you're up there um so all the tr truck traffic that's gonna come into the resort is gonna come in via that vision road? Correct, yes. How does that get routed through the resort? How does that get to get to the resort?

Henry

I'll let them talk as far as I can tell you how to how to get from the road, but let them talk about how it's routed through the resort.

Barbara Wilhite

If we can bring back up that PowerPoint and mighty keep the concept planned up so as we talk we can reference it.

See if we can get the overall concept playing back up. Um Aaron, do you want to Speak to. That's right. I know the answer, but Aaron does much better.

Aaron Landry

Doesn't work.

All right, I'll just have to I mean so basically what happens is once you once you come in uh in terms of service vehicle, you come in at that connection along the western boundary as as a service vehicle, you'll continue down past, you know, that the parking lot area you're seeing kind of that Sort of half half shape, uh I'm trying to think of the shape for it. But you're seeing a service parking lot which previously had um you know administrative uh buildings and trailers and you'll go down past this past where the schools are at. This is the route that they take the the trucks would take today, which is this is Fox Hunt

Drive, once you're inside Saddlebrook in order to get down. Because Fox Hunt Drive is this is the is the road that gets you over to the core of the resort in terms of where. the receiving and delivery um is today.

Christopher Poole

So you're saying that's essentially no different than than it is to today once you're in.

Aaron Landry

Once you're inside of South Power, correct. But you're obviously bypassing the main entrance.

Christopher Poole

Yeah, so all the truck traffic that typically that currently comes in the front gate is gonna is gonna not be going there anymore. Okay.

Aaron Landry

That's correct.

GirardiVice Chair

Can I ask Steve Henry one more question? Steve, Steve. This is one you can answer. So in area two Um I know it's writing right now, but

Is it safe for me to assume that you could never get a left out there be because of the proximity to the intersection?

Henry

Yes. And and we've looked at that parcel for years for other people, but that that's the problem is you can't get to the signal unless you acquire additional property to the east.

GirardiVice Chair

Does that effectively limit the amount of development you can put in area two?

Henry

It will it will limit the the viability of a lot of commercial because of of limited access. Obviously with full access and signal it it helps the the value and the the type of retail might go in there.

Connected City

Okay.

School District Representative

All right. Any other questions? Yeah, I got one more. Barbara? I guess I'm looking to the area to the south where the golf course is. You've got uh Wiregrass Esplanade to the south. And uh it doesn't show any houses there but they're gonna be built. Is there any thought about any kind of like golf cart access to there? 'Cause it just would seem so much easier to get there from the south.

Barbara Wilhite

If you if you pulled up Pl Pasco Mapper, what you'd see is it's a platted subdivision and wire grouse all along our south. So there's

School District Representative

a dead end there.

Barbara Wilhite

Right. So I g I think a couple of things. One is it's all platted residential across our south. The other is a desire of our community, the Saddleburgh community, um, to maintain their gated access and so Again like they didn't the comment on area two, development area two, which is the town homes and not having that connectivity I'm sure it was proposed to come from the south, from the wire grass, we would have the same concern. They want to keep Saddlebrook behind the gate.

GreyChair

Okay. If uh that's everyone on the presentation side who would like to speak or ask questions, Barbara, do you have something else?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Yeah.

GreyChair

Okay. Yeah. All right, anybody else would like to speak or have any questions? Please come just come forward and give us your name and address.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Right.

GirardiVice Chair

Thank

GreyChair

you.

GirardiVice Chair

Good afternoon, Chairman Mariano. I'm sorry before you speak to you. Can I ask Staff a favor just to leave the concept playing route in case people need to re No offense to Essen, I don't know. Oh you have a PowerPoint, okay, I'm sorry, okay.

GreyChair

No comments.

Connected City

It's a good picture.

Jane Graham

Chair Gray, I had actually requested um eighteen minutes for myself, my client, Mr. Larry Barbetta, and our expert, but our expert isn't actually able to join. So would we be able to have sixteen minutes um in total, just myself and Mr. Barbetta? Sure, that'd be fine. Thank you very much. And actually that said, um I'll introduce myself quickly, but I'd like to have Larry Barbetta's presentation up because he's going to do the first presentation and I'll do the the second part.

My name is Jane Graham. I represent the Save Saddlebrook Coalition. Um and I'm here with Larry Barbetta. Where did he go? Okay, come here.

GreyChair

Yeah, I

want

to come right on up front. Sorry.

Jane Graham

Yeah, he is the president of the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition. He's also a resident and has quite a bit of business and hospitality and analytics expertise as a CEO of multiple companies, um ex um specializing in software analytics. I have some documents that I will put into the record one. One of which is the Save Saddlebrook Coalition bylaws and mission statement, which establishes standing in this case. It's c um this coalition

is composed of individuals who own property as well as HOAs within the Saddlebrook area. With that, I'm going to let Larry take it away and I'll come back.

GirardiVice Chair

So Gene, are you asking us to receive and file something? Yeah. What what are you asking us to receive in file?

Jane Graham

So I have actually a a package, one of which includes the Safe Saddleback Coalition amended bylaws. It also includes um a number of other documents which I'll speak to.

GreyChair

Do

GirardiVice Chair

you want to give them

a little bit of

asking to receive file these to look at them? Yeah. Okay, then Probably need a motion.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Motion to receive and file. Second.

GreyChair

All in favor? Aye.

Lawrence Barbetta

Hello everyone. My name is Larry Barbetta. I live at [address removed] in Saddlebrook and I have been sworn in.

So first of all I'd like to just give you a quick update on what's been happening since we last met with you guys. I won't take you the day-by-day breakdown, but um We wanted to first thank you on the Planning Commission for giving us an opportunity to work with MAST and to coalesce our efforts as a community to understand this development project. And so we we thank you for giving us that opportunity and we thank the Board of County Commissioners as well for giving us some time to keep working. We also would like to

thank our representatives from Mast uh for the time. We appreciate the way you've dealt with things and the way you've handled us. We've had very respectful, I think, and professional engagement and we've made a lot of progress. And so I don't want to uh in any way make that um to minimize that. That being said, there are a couple of areas of this plan that we still are not comfortable with. Specifically, we feel we need better res better solutions for the resort revitalization in terms of the commitments

on scope of the renovations and the timing. And secondly, we remain very concerned about the Area One plants as it relates to density, type of product, traffic impact, etc. We think that there's an opportunity for this whole a plan to be a true win-win-win. A win for Mast, a win for Saddlebrook residents, and a win for Pasco County. But we need your help. To achieve that.

So as the team for Mass brought up, um We have agreed on a deed restriction to preserve the golf course and the views. We think that's very important and we're very grateful for that. And that is a very um, you know, meaningful, meaningful action. Where we still have issues is the resort revitalization commitment. And this is a critical issue for the community. For the viability to resort. And the revenue for Pasco

County. Simply put. We feel there's a need to increase the scope of the commitments on the development and when and when it gets completed. Okay. We also, as I mentioned, have some concerns about Area One and we'll we'll touch on that a bit, with the current density, traffic, safety. type of product as y some of you mentioned already, including the amount of parking, et cetera. Okay.

These were the points that were put up earlier. So in terms of the conditions, I won't read them all, but quickly 27 speaks to the fact that we're going to maintain the existing driving range until the new driving range has been constructed and is in operation. We think that's great. We're really we're really happy about that. The next thing talks about when development begins. And this is an area where we have some concern. because it says prior

to the first final building inspection in area one or two. They will commence renovation of existing hotel units owned by the applicant. Um I believe Mast owns seventy five or eighty of the Condotel units, somewhere in that range. And I believe there's four hundred and seventy three in total, correct? Okay. So That's one point. The other thing is we have renovations um in in certain parts of the resort brought up lobby, food and beverage, and ground level

meeting. Um those are important, but those are things that really benefit more the hotel operation and certainly not the members who are part of Saddlebrook or the or the community other than maybe the food and beverage which we certainly would welcome. Okay. The other point of concern is that The only completion date for renovations and the resort improvements is upon final building inspection for the 351st unit. Now

It doesn't have a date. It doesn't have a start date. But by the time you would lay out all of the things that have to take place with the way the golf course works, as the folks have described or in in prior um Meetings. That is a project that you have to do because of Florida weather apparently from March to November. Because of the growing. So we are concerned and we think the county should be concerned that the first completion milestone of the

resort condos and the resort itself isn't until we're at unit 351.

We think this kind of should be flipped. Because isn't the priority? To revitalize the Saddleback Resort. They bought Saddlebrook Resort. We didn't buy a pasture. So we would like to think that we should increase the commitment to not only include the mast own units, But let the other condo owners opt in. And obviously there's economies of scale which would benefit masked. Now I know they can't be accountable. for personal

property people joining. But by all means we need the county needs more than eighty rooms. To get Saddlebrick Resort back. So we would like to see that part of the mix. The other thing is we really want to see completion milestones. far earlier than after three hundred and fifty first apartment unit in area one. Th we we heard from even Jordan in response to a question today that it's not a funding issue.

You were the commission asked that question. So if it's not a funding issue, Why do we want lost revenue for the county? Why do we want to delay this? And again, without getting too deep into economics If you go to the Saddlebrook website today. And this is not the high season. The rate is one hundred eighty nine for next weekend. That's for the one bedroom. It's two sixteen for the two bedroom and it's four fifty four for the three bedroom. Yeah.

With the five percent tax That the county gets? Plus the penny for Pasco, plus the additional one percent. You're talking about seven percent Lost revenue for the county. On every night. That it isn't developed. and also for any unit that isn't developed. So very quickly you get into looking at about $5,200 a night if you had the 393 additional units built. Okay.

And think about what that would mean over time and getting it built sooner. So we would ask for your help. Two. Move this in a more expeditious and broader manner.

GreyChair

Can I

c

GirardiVice Chair

can I ask another question?

GreyChair

Sure, please.

GirardiVice Chair

So

I understand your point. If you could just back to the prior slide. I'm just I'm my question is

How do I mean they don't own those four hundred and seventy three units, so how do you How would how can Mass commit to renovate units they don't own?

Lawrence Barbetta

I'm not asking that they would commit, but they could add something like that they will do their units and all others that are privately owned that opted in. For example. Because there's individual clusters. So for instance, if Mast owned half the units in cluster one, I'm just illustrating. Are you saying that they would

GirardiVice Chair

contract the work or pay for those rent I'm I'm not sure what you're asking them to do because I'm not sure why you're why would MA why should mask be responsible for renovating somebody's private unit.

Lawrence Barbetta

Well, no, they're no, I'm not asking them to pay for it, so it's a good question. Um just as now, the individual owners will have to make a decision as to whether they're going to pay the assessment that they'll be levied to upgrade their unit. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't only commit to doing their 80 units, they should commit while they're doing their 80 units that they would also include. include give an option for the owners to offer up their unit to be renovated at the same time.

GirardiVice Chair

If those owners are willing to pay for

Lawrence Barbetta

the right-way. Yeah. Okay. Right, right. Does an

Connected City

option already exist though with those owners? What wouldn't they be able to Do that at any time.

Lawrence Barbetta

They haven't yet been told the cost or the break even points or anything else yet at this juncture. And as you can see that obviously and again it makes perfect sense that when you're doing a cluster and if half are owned by masked and half are owned privately, it would be more efficient to do the whole cluster at once.

Christopher Poole

So you're suggesting more of an economies of scale sort of issue. I mean if the contractor's already in there doing the work, might as well do all the units at the same time as long as those people opt in and pay for it.

Lawrence Barbetta

Correct. Which then would get more units it gets the hotel brought back faster, more units for Pasco. So more revenue for masks too.

GirardiVice Chair

Now did you see there was a finding of fact that I think Amy put up at the beginning that said that our Office of Economic Growth was working with Mass to address this very issue. Did you notice that?

Lawrence Barbetta

Um I sp spoke with David Engel very recently. And yeah, I mean y you were we were on a call together with him briefly and we've spoken since. Right, but

GirardiVice Chair

I but I guess my point is is that I'm not sure this this particular issue that you're bringing up I don't know that the county's ignoring it. I in fact I spoke to David Ingall, I know he has similar concerns. It just that I don't think they've developed the language that's intended to address it. That's why I'm asking you the questions, what is it you're suggesting? Better better This is this is sort of an open dialogue item because even David Ingel would tell you if he was here that this issue has not been

fully based. That that's the one issue that has not been fully baked in his mind. Right. So that's why there's a finding of fact in the memo that says that he's continuing to work with the applicant on that issue.

Lawrence Barbetta

Okay.

GirardiVice Chair

But your request is that they basically MAST open up the renovations to those other four hundred whatever number of units it is. Three hundred and ninety three is three hundred and ninety units to do at the same time they're doing their own. If they pay for it. If the owners opt in, yes.

Lawrence Barbetta

Okay.

School District Representative

So I kinda see a feasibility issue with that 'cause let's say we're all condo owners and I say yes and you say yes. And Jamie says no. So I mean the constru how does that work feasibility wise? The construction's going on and They're doing mine and then the noise is bothering Jamie.

Connected City

Yeah, I would assume each e the the contractor would work on each unit individually and when they finish one they move on to another one. The only issue might be though is if a um three hundred units opt in all at once, um th then there's only so much labor to go around to be able to get those and materials to get those done.

School District Representative

And you'd have to get one unit to can be completely yes. Instead of just piecing

GreyChair

them in. I I honestly I think it's it's more of a common good kind of an approach to it. You know, you got let's say you got thirty units on a f on a floor and twenty five of 'em wanna do it, you just do 'em all at once and the five that don't want to do it, they don't get done, you know, and they just have to live with that because it's a common good for the for the whole community. Right. That's That's the way I see it. Yeah, it makes sense. And the only way you're gonna get economies of scale is if you do 'em all at the same time. Yeah. You can't do them individually. Yeah.

Barbara Wilhite

So a couple of things, Barbara will heighten taking the time, but what you're saying is I agree with we've actually worked on some of this language. It's not we're still working on it with Dave Engel. But some of the concepts in the language are one that my client pass to whatever they're paying to renovate their units is the same for third party units. So they don't get to mark up and and so they get the same. So that's the one thing we're working on. The other thing we're working on is that timing, giving those third party owners saying you haven't you have this date You

sign up by this date to renovate, then we'll renovate our units and your units units together. And that's the intention is to do them all together because That's where you get the the economies of scale, like you said, and all and being able to keep those that pricing Consistent. But to say once you sign up, we have commitments and in these conditions that say when we have to do our units, well if you sign up by a certain date, we gotta complete your unit. with our commitments when we're going to complete our units. So we're working on those concepts. Um and so I just want to say that. Like so it didn't just go flat and

just like, you know, but We can continue to work on it and um we agree that we can improve the language and we're addressing it and working on it. But those are some of the beginning ideas. And it's exactly what you're saying, so

Connected City

Right. Can Barbara, can you also speak to um the financing of those renovations to the um So what what financing options would the owners have to be able to finance

Barbara Wilhite

those renovations? If I may, because this is Mr. Barbetta's presentation, um let him continue and we'll we'll definitely can speak to all those things. So thank you for giving me a moment.

Lawrence Barbetta

No problem. Thank you. Thank you, Barbara. And we're encouraged by that. But to be clear, we're we can only react to the wording that is presented and we've been having conversations about these topics for months. Okay? So It's not the first time we've brought this up. Okay. The other thing as I mentioned is the timing is also important. Okay. as as we brought up, the concern about The three fifty one being the first completion.

GirardiVice Chair

Can I ask you what what would what would your propose if it's not three 'cause the the applicant did say that wasn't a magic number. Could you tell what what is your suggestion of what the number should be?

Lawrence Barbetta

Well, I guess we'd have to understand the timing of the project and we understand you can't control everything. There's acts of God, there's labor. We're not expecting anything unreasonable. But what might be good is if we had a you know, a committed start date. that was soon and earnest efforts, whatever, right? And then we would have some completion milestone. That would be earlier. I don't know what the calendar date would be for the plan for three fifty.

GirardiVice Chair

Well I mean uh the Ray I read condition twenty eight, they are committing to a start date. 'Cause they have to start Um prior to the first any building in area one they have to at least have started. That's how I'm reading condition twenty eight.

Lawrence Barbetta

They have to commence, yes.

GirardiVice Chair

Are you so you want a calendar date? Is that what you're asking for?

Lawrence Barbetta

Yeah, I mean obviously yeah, I think a calendar date or a reasonable date and I'm look and an early completion date is all we're trying to get at. Okay,

GirardiVice Chair

so so your issue is that You want calendar dates instead of just tying it to development in area one and two. I just want to know I want to be clear on what you're asking. That's

Lawrence Barbetta

what we're doing.

A date would be best, obviously, and we'd understand there could be extenuating circumstances.

GreyChair

Well it might be hard to pick a date, but you just pick an on or before date. Yeah. Yeah. Or a target yeah,

Lawrence Barbetta

target completion. Right. Right. But and then a target completion is the key too, right? The way I read that three hundred and fifty-one units I I I interpret that as years. Years.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay. Okay, so you're looking for something that you like a a calendar date that you can hang your hat on that isn't tied to unit construction, that's what you're asking.

Lawrence Barbetta

Or or a much quicker uh a or a completion date tied to way fewer units. Whatever would be most important.

GirardiVice Chair

If it was you?

Lawrence Barbetta

Yeah. Well I prefer gate than number of units because I I know,

GirardiVice Chair

but what then you said or a number of units, so I'm asking you what is what is your request?

Lawrence Barbetta

What is your what is the current schedule as it looks like for the resort renovation and the and the uh condo tel renovations?

Aaron Landry

And we

Unidentified speakerVoice B

just spoke about it at

Henry

length, so

Lawrence Barbetta

Yeah, but I've never heard a date. Okay. We can't have to do that.

GirardiVice Chair

If you don't know the answer then just think about it and tell me later. Okay. I I wasn't sure but you you're asking the the number the unit count be produced. Uh but it'd be helpful to know what your y what your request is.

Lawrence Barbetta

Well the reason I'm asking for the unit number to be reduced would be to try to get to an earlier date. So you're clearly

GirardiVice Chair

you made your point. Okay, go ahead.

Connected City

So if if they came and said that The target completion is so if they can put a target completion on that, that's a reasonable date, then you'd be okay with that too, I would assume.

Lawrence Barbetta

Exactly. Okay. Exactly. We're only slightly unreasonable, right?

GreyChair

I've heard that.

Lawrence Barbetta

Just Just ask my wife. Um okay. So we've covered I think these points and I appreciate the questions. Um Aries by the way

GirardiVice Chair

I do have to compliment you by being very specific with your requests. Okay. This is a breath of fresh air compared to some your other presentation. I just wanted to point that out. Yes.

Lawrence Barbetta

Indeed. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. We're we're trying to be pragmatic. Okay. So the other area where we have concerns is Area One as it sits right now. As you know, it's a it's kind of a shock candidly to those of us who've lived in Saddlebrook, who have, you know, the peaceful environment we do. We had reasonable investment-backed expectations. Um we know things change, but that was not allowed or contemplated up there. That up

the area one area as it was previously zoned didn't permit this. Okay. And so this is new. And we're talking about four hundred and sixty-five apartments, thirty-five townhomes. The scope of the parking, as some of you brought up, I believe it's like 900 plus parking spots is required. So it isn't really the kind of breathable, green space, walkable kind of model and it it is it sits in sharp contrast to the spaciousness of

Saddlebrook in the community and also doesn't really seem befitting as your gateway into a four plus star resort. You know, so we feel that that's something that's important. Um We brought this up and there has not been any change in this area. And you brought up also the difference in intensity and density. Area two is about 20 acres and it only has 25,000 square feet of commercial, 120 townhomes. So it's a the residential is six per acre, the other one is 15.6

per buildable acre. So that's kind of a big difference, obviously. And remember, we have a whole lot of other development that's already been approved. that hasn't been modeled and I'll let our traffic people speak to that. But there's a lot to consider on what it's going to mean to the roads. And and as we heard with the Vision Road, Um

There is no light and the light is not directly I was told directly by the county that the light isn't coming. Jane maybe we'll speak to that unless it goes connect to the north and then they still have to do a study to prove the need and there's a bunch of lights together. So we're worried that this is gonna flow a whole bunch of traffic into the small Saddlebrook wishbone which is already unwieldy. Okay, we call it the wishbone, the little exit there. Because the exit They're gonna have to if you exit the area one and you go on the vision road,

if you're going to fifty four, you're gonna turn right on fifty four, it's a right only. You gotta cross three lanes and do a U turn at the Saddlebrook Light. Or you come out on the saddlebrook side. So we think this is gonna have a significant impact. um a negative impact on traffic and the flow in our area.

GirardiVice Chair

So can I can you go back to that slide? 'Cause I Maybe your traffic expert needs to address this, but I understand your point, but I have to imagine at some point There'd be commercial the Wiregrass is going to develop a commercial parcel on the other side of that Vision Road and that all those and I stopped to confirm this, that all the commercial is gonna interconnect over to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard so that even if

you didn't want to take the Vision Road down to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard that you could take uh interconnecting parking lots over to wire grasp grant boulevard to make a lot. Does that I guess I maybe Steve Henry knows the answer to that question. But is all the stuff that's In Wiregrass on the other side of the Vision Road, is it all interconnected to Wiregrass Frenchable or does anybody know the answer to that question? If they followed our code, it would be, but I don't know if they followed our code.

Henry

Yeah. Uh Steve Henry again. Uh so the answer is that at at current that that is the plan. Uh now you know they they still don't have all of that planned out, but a as they keep developing, it is all interconnected. The last couple developments that we've done along there, the commercial have all been interconnected. So ultimately I think it it will all be interconnected. But there's not a master plan for all the that that parcel right now.

Chris Williams

Correct. And there are other restaurants in that area too. And do you know I know they're working on that wire grass road to go more in a southerly direction to connect. I don't know the time frame on it, obviously, maybe you do Steve. But I don't see I I can see this particular project here where you don't have to make the right turn out I so you can make a left, go over to uh and I don't know the name of that street, towards Walmart and go out and exit that way. That's sure. That's what I do. I go out there and

and I I go out that way. So I don't see a Yeah. Although I'm not an expert.

GirardiVice Chair

Well my my and my specific question for Steve was yes, and that was the des earlier testimony that by I think Barbara that you could take the vision road to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard to get to where Walmart is and take the light. My question for Steve was if you didn't want to go that circuitous route to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard, could you just go straight through all the interconnecting Commercial parcels over to wire reference rings will work.

Henry

But and right now th th they aren't all interconnected because there's still parcels that are missing in in there, but ultimately that they will all interconnect.

GirardiVice Chair

Brad, can you get up and confirm that those would all interconnect?

I want to hear him say that so he's not gonna grant any alt standards.

GreyChair

You raise your right hand.

Saez

Red tip in planning and development. Uh at this time the intent is yes for all of these to be as interconnected as possible. There may be some situations where, you know, it may be a somewhat security route to get through there because there may be an engineering issue. Uh but the intent is yes, that those will those Commercial projects will connect through their parking lots as well as the roadway network around them. So that's the intent.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your presentation. I just wanted to understand what the plan was. Thank you.

Lawrence Barbetta

I'm not here to talk, I'm here to get answers, so I appreciate it. You're welcome to interrupt. Okay. So we're open to different ideas here. We would obviously We have discussed the possibility of moving some of the residential density to area two. We'd also be open to considering increased commercial for reduced residential potentially. We'd certainly welcome some different product type like someone talked about unfortunately that there's some cost issues. I'm

not an engineer, but I mean Just as a lay person I would prefer Less parking, more green space. If that meant, you know, multi-use, um mixed use, multi-level with parking underneath, that you know, but I don't know what's possible or not. I'm not an an engineer, okay? So those would be the types of things. The other things is while all this stuff is happening in influx, if the Vision Road solves all these problems, then maybe we don't have a connection to the Saddleburgh wishbone.

Just Right now. the commercial and the residential come into that road in a couple places. If we're so convinced that everything's fine with the vision road, let's so do that to reduce our traffic impact.

GirardiVice Chair

But I guess the reason it doesn't make sense to me is then what if you want to what if you the residents want to use the vision road? You're forcing them to

Lawrence Barbetta

go

GirardiVice Chair

out on the fifty four.

Lawrence Barbetta

No, no, we can we the residents have access through the vision road at this point here. This is down below, so this just followed the plan downward. So You see, this is inside of Saddlebrook. So if you look at those black lines at the top, sorry, I couldn't get this where you could see everything. So this is just below. that on your uh binding concept plan.

This down below where you see I don't know if this has a pointer thing. Does it have a I know. No, doesn't seem to. Oh, great. Yes. Oh thank you. Okay, great. Okay. Right down there is this is this is the current entrance into Saddlebrook. This is Fox Hunt Drive. Okay? And down through here, this is the little And this is the little role. Right now we have a

s this is a we call it the service road here. This road exists, by the way, it just doesn't connect with 54. Okay. So right here, this is the way that we would access going out through here, this is the access to the Vision Road right here for the residents. And you could turn right or left. Now, one concern that we have, by the way, with this is by pushing the traffic internal. These are old roads, they have no sidewalks. And this by the way, if we push things through here, this is a fifteen mile an hour road. There's speed bumps

here. There's stop signs there. There's the crosswalk here. This is the school. This is the school. It's right on the road. And there's no side path. And this is a a boarding school where eighty plus percent of the peop well, a hundred percent of the people either live in Saddlebrook or live in the dorms. So Obviously there's some things that need to get sorted out here if we're going to push a bunch of traffic in that direction.

So Um, in conclusion, again, we thank you for giving us the opportunity to present. We thank you for giving us the time to work with MASC. We respectfully and sincerely thank MASC, and we look forward to continuing to work together to hopefully work out some of these details because there are some details that still need to be addressed, in our opinion. to move forward. Okay, and we need your help to do so. We have negotiated quite a bit. We've had a lot of meetings. We are where we are, not out of the

lack of effort, but we still need a push to get it to where I think it is a win win win for everyone.

Christopher Poole

Mm Mr. Barbetta real real quick, could you go back a couple of slides and just w where is the security gate coming into if you go one more maybe? Yeah,

Lawrence Barbetta

I'm trying.

Christopher Poole

Okay. Where is the existing security gate? Is it all the way down?

Lawrence Barbetta

It's hard. Right now it's kind of like up further. And by the way, what happens is when they come into Saddlebrook, there

is

a turn over here. They don't the the trucks and deliveries don't go through the Saddlebrook gate. That was a misstatement. I know nothing uh because what they do is they cut across this road here, that this is the service road. And by the way a lot of the deliveries go up here in the sheds and The storage facilities that they have. But when you have to get into the resort, they go here, they go before the security gate, and then follow that service road around. That's what they do right now. Now, what's gonna happen, they're relocating the gate, and I guess uh you know the mask vote can speak to that better.

I mean, is this the new gate location? Right. Oh that's what they're yeah. So it's pushing it back here.

Connected City

S so the only devil's advocate thing I would say there with a positive to connecting that uh future project with uh the Saddlebrook is then you have some advantages to someone wanting to to live in that those new units, to be able to connect with Saddlebrook amenities. So if they wanted to come in and play golf or they wanted to come in and use the resort in some way or shop there.

Lawrence Barbetta

Well if if they did they can go down this road here, obviously.

Connected City

Can we entrance

GirardiVice Chair

the time? That's okay. We'll we'll talk about the time in a second. Well can I ask you one more question about that concept? Because I I'm not What about the townhomes to the east of the of the Y road? I mean how are they gonna get to Division Road if you block it off? Right,

Lawrence Barbetta

right. Well the way they would get to Division Road is th they the same way we do. Well, first of all, you can go out they could go out here and turn 'cause they're on this side of of the situation, right? The other thing is just like us, they could come down if they wanted and go get at it here. It's a bit of a circuitous route, but that's just the same

Connected City

thing. They wouldn't be able to get past the resident gate though if you're not going to be able to do

Christopher Poole

Is that correct though? They wouldn't be able to get past us because those are separate. They would not be able to get past our

Lawrence Barbetta

resident, correct? I'm not sure what the plans are. They've said that that's to be separate, is my understanding. Yeah, they wanted it separate from Seth Weightman.

GreyChair

Well we uh we can all come up with a thousand ideas of uh trying

Lawrence Barbetta

to yeah.

GreyChair

I think we have a pretty good understanding of what your concerns are. One of the things I I'd just like to remind remind you that From all the p reports that I've had Well Saddlebrook needs someone to come in there and we put some money into it. We're

Lawrence Barbetta

in violent agreement.

GreyChair

Otherwise you're just gonna keep going backwards and keep going backwards and They can't do it, even mass capital. When somebody comes to me and says, Well, money's no object, we've got plenty of money, I get nervous. Right. Because that's never true.

Lawrence Barbetta

No, I understand.

GreyChair

And the only way they're gonna get money to do this project is if they can put units up there like where the driving ring used to be. Everybody has to give and take. Everybody has to be because you gotta think, and we talked about this earlier, for the greater good of everybody in there. If somebody's gonna come in and try to rescue Saddlebrook, give them something. You know, they've gotta they've gotta they've gotta have a carrot too. So it can't all be green space,

you know, it can't all be roads to nowhere. It it's gotta be a combination of of effort. And what I see here is these people seem to be making a money. monumental effort and w in working with you and I think all of you are doing a great job too in working with them and not being just in an adversarial position. Right. So I mean I think that's I think David said it ear said it earlier, it's a breath of fresh air. to see some some people thinking,

you know, actually putting some thought into it. I think you're go you've come a long way. I think you're almost there. Thank you. And uh you know, and I think we need to do what we can to push it over the edge because if you lose out on this investor, who knows when the next one might come along in this especially in this market.

Lawrence Barbetta

Yeah, well we're we are realistic and we're thankful. Okay. And and we just want to do the things to make sure it's a win win win. That's all. And we're close.

GreyChair

Yeah, and that's believe me, that's what we all want because this is all our home. We may not live in Saddlebrook, but we have a vested interest in everything that we do becoming becoming a success. being something something we can point to as something we're proud of and that's what we want to do here. Excellent. We we want to try to work with you and we'll do whatever we can to support you and we know what it's going to take to make that happen. So thank you for your comments. We

certainly are going to put take them into consideration and uh you know starting dates, things like that. Right. That uh that we'll try to get uh set those things and and uh you know amenity reservoir renovation. you know, the pool area, all that stuff. Right. That's that's a mess. Yes. You know? And it's as I say, it's gonna take money to fix it. So and believe me, in my opinion, once you get it done, you're

gonna be very happy with it, I think. And uh you're gonna have a it's gonna certainly anchor in. So um David do you had something to do with the Well I just

GirardiVice Chair

have one more question. I don't know if it's for you or Jane, but the PowerPoint we just saw, does it represent the views of basically your whole group. I mean, I'm just trying to figure out are we down to these two or three remaining issues or are we about to hear from a bunch of other people that have a bunch of other issues? I mean, I I'm just

Lawrence Barbetta

I believe that these represent The the coalition is open, as Jane mentioned, to property owners in Saddlebrook. And we also have two HOA members, which are the two largest resident HOAs, the Fairway Village and Spoa. And these are the most important issues that we have. So we're we're representing and bringing forth the feelings of the groups. We did surveys of people, etcetera. We intend to do one more survey. Once we get the feedback from the Planning Commission, before that

we go to the county commissions, we w intend to do another community wide survey, not just for the coalition. But based on the surveys we've done, this reflects the priorities. The number the c the top concerns were what we've talked about. We've been quite consistent on what those are. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um may I ask since there was some questions and different things, would it be appropriate for our uh lawyer Jane Graham to get a little more than fifty-three seconds? 'Cause I was supposed to take eight.

GreyChair

Okay, I'll give you a whole minute.

Lawrence Barbetta

Well typically

GirardiVice Chair

we don't count question time, but I I don't know if you've been No, I don't know.

Denise

Yeah, I'm not running the clock, but I I'm I'm sh if it was let if the clock was still moving while the questions were happening, we're that's something that shouldn't have happened. Yeah of course

Jane Graham

I'd like to respectfully request six minutes, but I think I can do it probably in three.

GreyChair

Go ahead. Thank you again and uh I think you've earned it.

Jane Graham

Thank you very much. So um just as what my client was saying, we have really appreciated the opportunity to meet with Mass. We've had numerous meetings with Barbara Wilhite, Jordan and Erin. We're getting really close, but we're not there yet. And just Is this working?

Uh okay. So there are still inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan and actually just the backup.

We say that the application as is, what's actually in front of you, should and could be rejected because it it fails to meet a number of the different rezoning criteria and as you know you have a great attorney, Mr. Mr. Goldstein, as quasi-judicial hearing, you have to look at the criteria in front of you and make sure that it is supported by competent substantial evidence. And here I think based on what my client has said and what you'll hear from others, there are continuing issues as far

as the density and compatibility of land use. And

GirardiVice Chair

Jean, I don't have your handout. Was this all in your handout?

Jane Graham

Yeah.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay. Just want to make sure.

Jane Graham

Um but I'm not going to really focus on that so much because I think as Larry said we're actually getting close based on all the conversations we've had. There are inconsistencies. Um one of them goes to the tourism, um, as as Larry was saying, because the first final building inspection, and I'm not gonna belabor this point about we think that these conditions 28 and 29 need to be updated

to expedite resort renovations, to give kind of a legal reason why we care. If you look at Objective E D one point seven and one point seven two and one point seven three, it's important to have strong tourism in Pasco County. And if you look at Saddlebrook, it's actually the only real resort right now in Pasco County. Aside from if you search resort Pasco County on Google, you get Saddlebrook

and then you get two resorts which are actually clothing optional. So this is the main real resort that you will see in Saddlebrook. That's why it's so extremely important that this is expedited because it's a tour it's a major tourism focus. On top of that, there's a Gulf Tourism Convention at Saddlebrook next uh in two weeks. And so it just speaks to the fact that Saddlebrook is a landmark, and in your decision. decisions as far as phasing and timing why

it's really important that it needs to be expedited. We do still have issues in Area One with density and use, as Larry had already spoken about. If you look at the old Saddlebrook documents from 1979, you'll see that the intent was to develop the core area as the central feature. This is actually departing from that by going out to the periphery. You're creating a mudderum, which is a mixed-use center on the periphery on 54, whereas

if you look at the intent of how it was developed, What really should be looked at is how can it be further integrated and expediting the resort renovations to help. Density on development area one with 500 residential units, over 500 on 35 acres, that's over 14 units per acre. If you look at the land use districts, I mean that would be a residential 24. So that's really more than double res 6, if

just to put it in perspective. The other thing is that you're approving this as an MPUD. The purpose of MPUD districts is to encourage innovation as far as residential development, more flexible land development, conserve natural resources, protect wooded areas. If you look at this comparison of what it looks like right now on the driving range, it's all Green space, you have the driving range, you do have some on the left hand side of the maintenance sheds, but it's wooded area

where the proposed townhomes, and then just compare it because in the development area one there's just so much paved over, and as one of the commissioners stated, there must be a way that more green space can be protected. There's an old document from 1997 from the county that actually says that it was intended that 50% of this area, which was originally for commercial space, would be reserved for landscaping. So it does go to the idea

that you want to make sure that you're preserving enough green space, not just for the environment, but to preserve the entrance. Character, all of that. Residential compatibility and transition. You've heard a lot from people already. I'm not going to belabor the point, but the residents are still concerned with this high density that it will have impact. And we do want to continue you we want to encourage you to it look at clustering to limit

the impact of residential development and look at What are creative ways to foster superior design?

Protection of residential neighborhood, on-site traffic flow. You will hear from some people from the coalition and residents as to on-site traffic flow and some of the concerns. We do have our expert Drew Rourke, who just got the May 22nd traffic timing and phasing report yesterday, so he has not had a chance to review it. We don't know if your staff has even had a chance to adequately review it. A couple questions that you should keep in

mind is how does the model accurately account for all the traffic from the fut the influx of the newly approved but unbuilt development? Um other areas have things like a congestion management system. Pasco County does not. It's something that should be considered. I know I'm out of time just to quickly wrap up in looking at this as well with the model Pasco's population has changed. It's you know it's really on the up and up. So your decisions

as far as density impacts. it's important to think how how is it impacting the larger area. Based on all of that, In the most objective way possible, if you were to ask us now, the proposal does not meet the criteria that you need today for rezoning. It's unsupported by competent substantial evidence. And uh Saddlebrook residents deserve better. But that said, if as my client has explained, if there can be some concessions

and some more specificity as to the Conditions on the timing and phasing of resort renovations, as well as some kind of assurances that either density in Area One will be reduced or done in such a way that more green space is conserved, then I think that that's something where we will be able to get to a win-win. We're not there yet. Again, we do thank Mass. We have had a lot of good conversations with them, but we're we're Not where we need to be to yet. Thank you.

GreyChair

Thank you. Um my my only comment back to you is again and and you said this, we have three resorts in in Pasco County. I I think if you don't get a good financial partner very soon, we're gonna have two. They'll both be closing optional. And so I think it really is very important that you hang on to this particular investment company. There aren't a lot of them out there in this market. And you know, I'm in the business, so

I know. And uh I I think you've been very fortunate to come come across a very good company, very strong company. I think they can make a big difference in in your lives and the growth of Saddlebrook. Um

Yeah, if you had five or six people knocking on the door wanting to do all these other things that you want, yeah it might be different, but I don't think you do. So, um, you know, just take that into account. That's all I'm saying. Any other comments from up here or questions?

Chris Williams

Yeah, I've got a couple of you.

GirardiVice Chair

Well well we we our public hearing is not over, so yeah just to keep that in mind that we're not doing general comments on the application. We haven't given the public the rest of the public a chance to see or Barbara just to do rebuttal, so let's

GreyChair

Right, I just wanna know if anybody has any com questions for this app this advocate.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay. All right. And on that procedural issue, Denise, do we have people on WebEx for this one?

Denise

There are folks on WebEx and I do want to mention that there is one gentleman specifically who would like to if he could go now if that's possible. And it's Mr. Sullivan.

GreyChair

Let me just ask is there anyone else in the audience that needs to speak?

Denise

We do have some folks signed up. Um we do have um K uh Keith or uh Swoke, Nancy Foster, Alan Thornburg, I believe that's us, and Andrew Pines.

GreyChair

Okay. Um

Okay. Um let's go ahead and take the personal web X then.

Denise

Okay. Mr. Sullivan, if you would please state your name and address for the record and whether you have been sworn.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Good afternoon. Thank you. I am W. Michael Sullivan. I swore along with everyone else during the video swearing. I live at my own [address removed]. My permanent residence is [address removed]. I just wanted to a couple of points, the first of which to follow up on uh an email I received

Tuesday while I was traveling from the chair asking me to the best of my ability to walk Depend the survey by being to draw all units owned by NAS from the survey responses that I presented to you at the last meeting. Survey number T Wall participants as being

Without name or oper on it or identify. What I did in order to attempt to comply with the chair's request. I went into the database which he

Denise

mister Mr. Sullivan, can you give me just a second? Um the chair that he's speaking of is Chairman Mariano. Okay, that's what I was about to ask.

Not Chairman Gray. I was

GreyChair

I wasn't Sounded very regular. Any recall of that.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Yes. Chairman Mariano requested me I'm looking hard at this little video screen but have eye surgery and only have one eye resperting right now so bear with me uh I didn't need to suggest the comment here. And so what I did is took the there was one respondent who responded 50 times on the same IP address. I look through those

50 responses. And if Sonia or Dave would share with you I can tell you that in question five. Which was the one about that the board was able to get the conservation agreement that the forever offered developer would play 27 holes to detect his own space involved which she supported. The original response was 89.7% said gas.

Under the new test, 89% said. Yes.

GirardiVice Chair

Mr. S Mr. Sullivan, can can I stop you for a second?

Denise

We're having some technical

GirardiVice Chair

difficulties. Yeah, we're not seeing whatever whatever you're describing, we're not seeing.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Well, someone can just add it up here for a moment.

Denise

Yeah, we're having technical difficulties, so if you please bear with us.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

I'm attempting to be as helpful as I can in your deliberations and your knowledge.

GirardiVice Chair

You don't have a a a paper copy of this that you can email to us?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

I did send that to Sonia so you can uh serve me and I would request you accept that as freaking testing.

GirardiVice Chair

Well, we can receive and file if we have a paper copy of whatever or a digital copy of whatever you're trying to present to us, but I don't know if we have it.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

I have sent that to Sonia and she had just begun to try and get it on the screen for me. So it has been submitted electronically to that.

GreyChair

Sonya you're trying to pull it up now?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

In order to not raise your time and I appreciate you teaming up quickly because I'm supposed to be with the governor at the state of Iron in in 33 minutes and I'd have to change you with them. Um the the the outline is of the bottom line on these you could move on to the next one. And you can see there was a change from 89 to 73, 89.7 to 89. So no substance

change. Next one's on your.

A change from A five point five six to A grade two percent change. So no substitute ever won't be a few years.

GirardiVice Chair

M Mr Solomon, can I can I ask you a question? Who came up with these qu Who came up with these questions that you asked that you surveyed?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

We did these, these were developed by myself and a professor colleague at the University of Rhode Island, you know, and used by the tool survey must be sent to over to every email address of the largest association, which is the South Road Sort of.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay, so so it was primarily you were the drafter of these questions then? Primarily you? Okay. Yes sir.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

So again, this one in 85 and a half with 83. Next one, please, Sonia, question seven.

This deals with the irrigation system that went from 91 to 89. That's completely summer.

Connected City

Mr. Sullivan, really quickly as well. Um I'm seeing approximately two hundred and eighty people answered uh these questions. What percentage of that is is that of the people that were Survey.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

If you look at 280 responses, but we have over 50 in the

Connected City

So my question was how many people were surveyed in total?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

It was sent to 430 email addresses.

Connected City

Thank you.

GirardiVice Chair

But I think what he's saying or what I thought of him these are the investor owned hotel units. These are not Residents of Saddlebrook. Right. I just want to make sure we're clear on the police survey.

Connected City

And I wanted to see how many of those people responded versus how many it was sent

Unidentified speakerVoice B

to. There's also almost 200 owners in what's called the Lakeside Village, which is part of the Saboat Resort Combination Association. And so It is, as I said, the largest of all associations, all the significant investment.

My point is taking out the 50 common IP addresses, there's no substantive allocation in support of the agreement that we on the dossier will. Uh can can I think that was Mr. Mariano's suggestion that it could somehow alter up starts with different the outcome. Well if you were to look back to the first part of

the what I send you, I would appreciate it immensely. Block down a little bit. Okay, it didn't get through, but I will tell you uh members of the board, if you look at current revenues, this second quarter of this year is almost $1.2 million. A year ago is $894,000 for the same quarter. Two years ago in the last quarter of the Demonsey

owned. It was $328,000. So in a little more than a year and a half, or a little less than a year and a half ownership, that is return revenues to anything that exists, you know, beyond anything we've seen in ten years as investors in the

confidence any suggestion that Owners within the Walking Village, owners within the majority of owners within Walking Village, majority of owners within the lakeside are in support of NAFS plan because they're producing revenue and salt. And as one member of the board, I couldn't tell who was speaking, said this is a real investor that needs to help us. And I

would suggest that our investors truly understand the economies at scale. And the vast majority of people are going to rent

Mm-hmm. acquiring that scale. Thanks.

GirardiVice Chair

So

Unidentified speakerVoice B

respond to any questions.

GirardiVice Chair

So Mr. Sullivan, is it accurate to say that you support Mass's plans?

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Uh I it is very accurate to say I support as they have been submitted and as they continue to be perfected.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay, thank you.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

And my wife hold it unanimously to support that.

GreyChair

Okay, thank you Mr. Sullivan, appreciate your effort.

Chris Williams

So was that a yes? Yes, yeah.

GreyChair

Okay. All right. Who would be next?

Denise

Um that's the only one that I suggested that you please take on WebEx. If you want to continue on WebEx, we can do that. Or if you'd like to to hear from the folks around

GreyChair

the audience. I prefer to hear from the people that drove here, took their time out to be here.

Denise

Mm-hmm.

GreyChair

So who would like to come up?

Close enough, huh?

Can I have your name and address please?

Keith Swope

Yes, I'm Keith Swoke, other [address removed], and I have sworn. Um my wife and I originally bought the property in Sally Brooke, nineteen eighty, eighty one. Uh we bought our house there in nineteen eighty five. Hear me? We bought we bought our house there in nineteen eighty five. We bought our lot at Sally Brook, it was very small. Pretty quiet neighborhood with 18 holes of both. During the purch purchase We were told about the negotiations

with someone by and possibly put a resort in. I was a little bored about the traffic and the problems. I was told not to worry. Residents on the road. We own halfway the road. And there is a construction road that's there, not far from my house. I was told that would be Saddlebrook Road for all the condos to be using that road and they would not be using our road at all. What never happened. And it changed our lives. And not for the better. One

of the important things about living in Saddlebrook is peaceful, quiet lifestyle. As soon as you drive the front gate, you separate yourself from the freeway that's now Pive 54. It looks like we're going to get another change now and it's not for the better.

You've been shown the traffic problems in the front gate. And that's the problem is when the resort is empty. We'd been there when his work was full and he had something going on. and the traffic is so bad you can't get off of Highway 54. into the resort, it backs up 154. And then when it's over You can't get out. on on the fifty four and then maybe an hour to back up beyond there.

We live in the house at the end of the residential property that we are the last house on the golf course before Zelda starts. So we're way back in the back. It's been backed up at times where I could not get to my driveway. And I couldn't get out of my driveway. So when the Saddlebrook Resort is full and they have something going, traffic is not good already.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

No one in it still.

Keith Swope

In forty years we've gone from a quiet little neighborhood with zero traffic to resort to moderate traffic, whether you want it or not. And now we're rezoning. And that's it's not but we bought our house and we've moved there for it. I know there are people who kind of need to get out, need something done. But they're investment people. They don't live there. They're not part of it. They don't understand it. I just my question is Do we think what we're doing now is a good long-term solution? Do you really think they're putting a four-story apartment

complex in the front door with nothing but parking places? You ask why there's so much parking places? Because you've got four stories. You've had to have so many spaces. There's no way to do that. If you could back it down, we could probably live for it. They're talking about you couldn't put them on the east property because there was the access road on our property. But the access road's not going to be used. gonna be used for commercial. All this all those people are gonna be running in our light and our stuff.

GreyChair

Okay. Thank you very much. Next who's the first one.

Denise

Next person is Nancy Foster.

GreyChair

Okay, Ms. Foster, do we have your name in the case?

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Hi. Nancy Foster, [address removed]. And I've been a resident of Pasco and work in Pasco since eighty-three. So I'm committed to this county. Uh I live in Saddlebrook. I live in the very first house. So let me show you where I live. This is where I live. This is where the gate is, and this is where they're moving the gate. My concern is that I am

so close that it will also change what I hear and what I see. So let me See if I get this. There we go. So th I am on Ainsworth, which will no longer be there when they develop this. They'll take away this road that's connecting, that's 290 feet away. And this is what my view will be. On the left, that's my view now. Quiet, serene. And then now I'm gonna have apartment dwellings

and everyone coming in and out of Sababrook. That's their last and their first vision as they come in.

This is where the gate will be. It'll be at the curve coming in, which is very near the road that I show you they will be taking out. So that means as people come in you have people waiting to get out or people waiting to get in, it's probably going to be some more congestion. In fact I have a video from December when there was something at Saddlebrook and the congestion went all the way from the gate all the way up as Keith said to his house and I have

actual video of that, bumper to bumper. Okay, what are the benefits of living next door to the Gulf Range now? Obviously the serene entrance you've heard about, manageable traffic flow. Can only hear the ping of the golf ball, which I love. listening to the sounds of nature, limited lit areas at night, Just very quiet. comforting, especially in this busy society we live in.

See you nine. That look at commands there.

What will change when the Gulf Range uh up front is gone? Well obviously a busy entrance. We know that MASC is now having another entrance, but we still have the condos that they want to build on the left side coming in, so that's more traffic. Uh you can only hear traffic noise. I'm worried about the delivery trucks. I do hear some coming on our main road, which are not supposed to use. Coming in. They're supposed to go over Ainsworth, the bumping and the noise of trucks coming in. Noise

from residents and visitors in that new area where they're building. We can't hear the sound of nature outside as much. It's going to be very well lit, obviously, so that's gone. No more quiet evenings. Restaurants are going to be open by midnight to one. We're going to hear obviously noises. I noticed you mentioned about the buffer. I think it's great coming in Saddlebrook. We need a buffer. After all, you know, I live close to it. Let me see if I can get back.

It's not gonna go back to my There we go. Um I notice when you get back here and you see where I live it changes a lot for being being this close. Do we really need that many apartments? Is there a way it can be designed so it's more compatible with the resort? So that this is like a whole different way of different from the resort itself. It's busy, it's congested. Is there a way to make it so

that it's more compatible and agreeable when you come in with more green spaces and And so that flows better. I see it sort of like here is like this all this commercial area and then all of a sudden you're in the serene area. Is there a possibility, is this the only answer to that particular property?

Thank you.

Christopher Poole

The master plan is different now.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yes, it is.

Christopher Poole

Okay. So there is more buffering. It looks like on the current master plan that they're showing there's a lake, a pond there's all kinds of landscape buffering. Building buildings have been that building is is gone now. Actually two two of the buildings I think are gone. So I just wanted to point that out. It sounds like they are listening to you.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yes, they are. I just it just seems this was the only thing presented to us.

Alan Thunberg

Okay.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

And I feel that it it would help if, you know, like i in working to kind of come to a decision of is there a way we don't have to have it as congested, we get a work re so it's more compatible to the neighborhood would be nice. After all you know it's a legend worldwide and people visiting, I'd like them to see enjoy that property as much as they have enjoyed it as a driving range. Okay, thank you.

GreyChair

Okay. Thank you very much.

Denise

Next person is Alan Thunberg.

Alan Thunberg

My name is Alan Thunberg. I live at [address removed]. Uh Barbara and I have lived there since 2002. Our community depends on a healthy and profitable Saddlebrook resort. We are counting on Mast to return the resort to profitability. Most Saddlebrook residents recognize the importance of the commitments that Mast has made. to preserve the golf courses.

for the long term. both as golf and open space, to keep golf and racket sports as centerpieces of our community. and to continue to provide a home for the the academies that train our young athletes. Mass proposal is not perfect. We agree with the coalition that the density plan for area one is excessive. We note, however, that Mast has agreed to develop Vision Road H. And We know

that they are working with the residents to reduce To reduce the problems associated with area one. We are confident that they will continue discussions to reduce density and ameliorate the traffic problems. We agree with Chairman Gray that the biggest risk facing Our community at this point. is that This application would not be approved

and that Mast would decide to take its money and go elsewhere.

We have done our own risk-benefit analyses and we conclude that you should approve this application. We are confident that MASP will continue to work with Saddlebrook residents. and with Pasco planning and development to resolve the problems that still remain. We are pleased to see that the position of the Safe Saddlebridge Coalition has evolved. We are close to what I believe should be an easy agreement. It should be far easier

to bring these two groups together than to merge two professional golf tours. Thank you.

GreyChair

Thank you very much.

Denise

Mr Andrew Pines is the next person and he's been granted five minutes. That's fine.

Andrew Pines

I think uh just bring up the PowerPoint.

GreyChair

You'd state your name and address.

We just need to make sure we get it on the recording.

Um

Andrew Pines

Andrew Pines, I live at [address removed]

[address removed]

[address removed]. And I think it's warning.

Thank you for this opportunity to come speak to you. I have kinda two different areas I'd like to talk on. One just real briefly on the on the traffic problems and then also uh frustration as a resident, condo owner, member, HOA board member and someone who's been involved with the discussions uh negotiations with masks. I've been very involved. I've only been in this county for a year but uh it's been a fun Um Again, this came to me. It shows that there's

you know tons of new development already underway. Uh from what I my understanding is the 54 from the surve uh the reports that have come out, it's there's already concern of it failing. That the new development, which there's 7,000 new units just in and around the Wesley Chapel area, uh there with 24 different multifamily complexes, eight of them are right in our little corridor that take advantage of the 54 with 2300 units, and that that was not factored into the report

and the concern of the the failing uh 54. This is before the 500 additional units that they're proposing in this plan. Uh much less additional success from the resort traffic that uh my uh other folks have talked about. I'm gonna try not to repeat too much here but again this is my experience today. I don't feel adding another lane is really going to solve the problem. Uh because we're talking about doubling the number of residents that's in Satterbrook. The number of units that they're proposing

is more than all of the residents combined today, uh plus all of the commercial traffic. It's just gonna continue to be a problem. One additional lane I don't think is gonna solve this and the fifty four. My trick now is I have to turn right and then do a UE and just to just 'cause I miss the light all the time here. Um again I'm not going to I I think there's definitely safety and usability issues that are of concern. This is the stuff that's happening until they really build the vision road and

reroute everything. This is coming right into our community. I think there's gonna be tons of problems as as they move forward. So there's internal breakdowns and turning right here. This is an old map but the bottom line is bringing here and turning right before they put in a uh light and keep going is gonna create all kinds of additional congestion, all kinds of problems and ultimately anybody that knows is ultimately gonna come use the wishbone so they can turn uh left and go towards the 75 which is where most people are gonna go. I

don't wanna keep talking too much about this. Um I created a video, I don't it's not gonna play here just to show you. But at the end of the day, there's all kinds of problems and I'm not gonna do it. I want to switch over to my frustration as a resident. Um after being involved with discussions for them for quite some time, um it's disappointing that after months of speaking with Mast in good faith about the density concerns and after uh Commissioner Weightman and the

others Uh And my understanding was on the record that they insist that we discuss the density and work on lowering the density and create a win-win around that. That Mast hasn't removed one door from their plan and they're still adding these four hundred and sixty-five garden apartments, the current open space drive uh plus uh the thirty-five townhomes that are right in the forested area which is most visible in and out. It's gonna change the face of Saddlebrook having all these town homes right there in the front. Uh since last summer

And most recently as this last April, Mast has broken their commitment on at least three different occasions to provide us condo owners with a finished renovated condo to look at with upgrade and financing costs. Projected returns on investment, commencement dates, as well as details to their level of commitment to upgrade the resort. They can't just expect us to upgrade the rooms without it commitment. commitment and what they're gonna do to the resort. I don't feel the lobby, the the lobby

and the restaurant is sufficient enough in the resort given the level of commitment that us condo owners are are looking to do. Also uh Michael Sullivan created, I feel a very biased uh opinion and asked us to vote on something again without these details that have presented to us as condo owners. I think we deserved that. They want to wait until after they get approval. And uh unfortunately, uh, if they're successful, um if Mass is successful continuing to delay providing the condo owners the cost upgrade until after they get approval with

the new development, they're in a position where they'll be able to change whatever charge whatever they want for the upgrades and financing, and the condo owners won't have any protection from the county. Meanwhile, we're being held hostage without a way for us to protect our investments. Mass significantly benefits. From the delays as owners who give up on the wait and are turning in their units to Mass for pennies on the dollar as Mass has the first right of refusal. The m the longer they wait and the worse the resort gets, the more units Mass gets to acquire for nothing. If I can have one last

point. The delays in the renovation will likely lead to lower property values for the condo owners and for possibly for the homeowners. The resort desperately needs updating, and the current linkage they proposed allows them too much room to continue to stall out any investment they make in the resort until they are far along with the new development in areas one and two. The condo owners and resort members deserve to stop leading money and deserve. to be able to get a positive return on investment. Um, I'm begging you, you know, please, we need your support to provide more assurances

and stronger linkages, waiting to 351. I'd like to see it as uh before they get fine approval on their first one. to have the resort updated because like you said we are desperate for improvements. We need that investment and I request your help to to get us that final way before they get to continue to move forward for special approval, for new zoning, and to have extremely dense, you know, uh residence in the front of ra uh saddlebright. Thank you for your time.

GreyChair

Thank you.

Denise

Mr. Chair, that's the last person that I have signed up to speak who's physically here. I do have and and you can call to see if there's anyone else, but I do have Mr. Patrick Hogan who's on WebEx. Okay and that would be the last person I'm on WebEx for the

GreyChair

wants to speak or no? No. That was the last one.

Denise

That was the last person. So you may want to call to see if someone just got here late and didn't sign or has decided now that they want to speak.

GreyChair

Okay.

See no one.

Denise

Okay, so then we'll um we'll ask uh Mr. Patrick Hogan, please state your name and address for the record and whether you've been sworn.

Unidentified speakerVoice D

Oh it's uh Patrick Oakman speaking and uh Miami's [address removed]. Unfortunately I haven't been score and I missed that portion of the meeting as I logged in a few minutes later. I missed that.

GreyChair

Okay, well we're gonna sway you in right now then. You raise your right hand.

Amy Heiler

Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth so help you God?

GreyChair

I do.

Yeah.

Patrick Hogan

Okay, go ahead. Thank you. Um if we could get uh w um we had we had the oh here we are here. Okay. Um What I what I uh want to talk to you about today is uh the impact of the redesign of the golf course on um on uh Fairway Village in particular. I'm a uh board member of uh of the Fairway Association in Fairway Village, and I'm also the board representative to the uh Safe Saddlebird Coalition.

Uh this uh map similar to this was put up earlier by uh by the people at Mast and I what I wanted to do was uh to go through quickly what the uh what the impact was. So I'll do that quickly just on the flow. So if you look at the map, you'll see that uh hole one down in the lower left-hand corner. That's uh similar to the so to the existing layout for Saddlebrook. So you play hole one and two. At that point, in order to get to hole three, after you've played hole two, you have to go out onto

Fairway Drive. And drive for approximately 90 seconds down to where you see hole three over in the middle of your screen there. So that's uh that's on a that's on a road that's already um that's the only in and out road for a fairway village. So on that road in addition to uh what you have with uh golf carts you've got a lot of other people that are using it which I'll go through here. So um once

you get down there you'll once you're done playing hole three you have to get back out onto Fairway Drive again and drive down to hole four, which is existing uh hole ten. You can see hole four, but where it comes down to down to intersect with fairway drive, that's where you have to get on it again. So again, you're engaging with with uh with existing traffic that is in the the the fair fairway village. The current there's a by way of explanation the current layout

um you cross the you cross only um fairway drive uh and other roads only three times in this existing one you have to cross it and you also have to to uh to uh

Yeah. After you're done playing hole four, you go around the loop, you play hole five, hole six, hole seven. then you are able to get back on a card path to get back to the start of hole eight and that's where you'll start just to the right of where the where the cursor is. But once you play hole eight in order to get back to hole nine you gotta get back on to Fairway Drive again. We could go up a couple of slides. I'd like to show you what what that well I've I've got us one more one more slide please. And you'll

see uh what what happens. There should be one more. Here we are. So you can see hole two on the left there and I used a red arrow. So where you jump onto Fairway Drive, you go down there, that's a ninety second drive. You get off at the red arrow, you play hole three. Hmm. Then you get up and then you have to go again and you go go further east and you get on to hole four. You have to get off again. You go around, make that loop, come back. Now we have the green arrows coming. Get back on Fairway

Drive to get back at the start of uh hole eight and then you get uh then once you're done hole eight you go back to nine. That's only in one of the nines. In one of the other nines, uh that's depicted by the purple arrows there. Uh you start in a different location. But if you see hole twenty two in the center of the screen, you have to go across Fairway Drive again. And that's at the same intersection where there's a side street, there's traffic coming off Hole Eight, there's traffic coming in from Fairway Drive,

and that is all happening in one area. To give you an idea of the impact, that's that could be as many as anywhere from 30 to 90 golf carts per hour, which is is a huge amount of traffic because you have to remember that the roads are also used by walk. and joggers and walkers with scrollers, dog walkers, vehicle traffic, golf course maintenance, and others. So it's it's and it's the only road in and out of our of our subdivision of our Fairway Village. So in conclusion, uh

to all this, I I'd just like to point out the the layout um and with all due respect to the designer, the layout isn't really it is will have a serious impact on the the residents of uh Fairway Village. And I think it's fairly convincing evidence that it's really that there's a safety issue here. With walkers and golf carts and everybody using a single road there, that the the proposed layout for the golf course is is

uh is an unsafe situation. So uh we just say that because this is an impact on the internal uh on the internal traffic pattern for Fort Way Village once the uh once the development starts and is in use up in uh area one. Thank you.

Connected City

Okay, thank you very much. Mr Hogan, would you propose that um a construction of a cart path parallel to the Broad, would would that alleviate some of

Patrick Hogan

those issues? I would say yes it would because uh right now that right now Fairway Drive is only a two-lane uh uh road. I don't know whether any of m most of you know that or not, and there's no sidewalks. So yes, that's uh in my in my view, that's that's probably the only alternative. And really any intersection with Fairway Drive should be a crossover, not a a get on and drive, uh the way the what they're proposing here.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Patrick, just real quick, um, I mean I I think this is just a draft routing plan. I mean I aren't those details that are gonna be worked out. I say finalize the routing. I mean I I can sit here and I can put numbers on the holes where you got eighteen holes where all you gotta do is drive across the street.

Patrick Hogan

Okay.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I mean I I think the numbers on here are arbitrary at this point. The only point I'm trying to make. I I

Patrick Hogan

I I I I hope they are sir. Uh but I I just pointed out because we did ask for uh we we have uh sent a letter to Mast in this regard. And uh we've got uh with all due respect to them they they've said they've received the letter and that's all we've uh we've done sin up until this point. It's the only contact we've been able to to get.

GreyChair

Okay. Once the applicant comes back up we'll get a response for you on that. Mm-hmm. The other thing I'd like to

GirardiVice Chair

point out is that we're not going to be able Approving a golf course design is you're you're approving the only thing you're approving as it relates to the golf course is the commitment basically that's in note two on the Bindings Concept Plan which deals with the permitted uses that are allowed in the Gulf Course area. You're not approving any specific design. I understand the applicant has put up this design, but it's not This is not something you're approving. I just wanted to be clear about that.

GreyChair

Okay. Good information. All right. Uh was there anyone else? Denise?

Denise

That's all we've got.

GreyChair

Okay. All right, Barbara.

Barbara Wilhite

I'm gonna have Steve Henry talk traffic with you and then we'll go on from there.

GreyChair

Okay.

Henry

Define Steve Henry. Uh address a couple of the the traffic uh questions. W one is the addressing the uh background traffic that was used in the analysis. I guess is what they're questioning. So what we did, your your code is very specific on how to address background traffic that's used in in these studies. Uh it's based on looking at the historical growth rate within three-year period. And then if that's less than 2%, using 2%. On 54%, so we use 2%. The

historical growth rate's about 1.6%. So we use 2%. On 54, when you look at that, that equates to quite a bit of traffic. In fact, when you look at the segment from Uh five eighty one to um uh Wiregrass Trans Boulevard, we're already adding over a thousand trips during the PM peak hour of additional background traffic growth over the time period in in this analysis. So we have taken that into consideration.

GirardiVice Chair

You say two percent is not two percent annually? Two percent annually, yes, correct. Okay. So it's every year you're at a two percent. Correct, yes, correct.

GreyChair

Can will you specify what for for the the audience what you mean by background traffic?

Henry

So background traffic is what we do is we what and and also as a set aside, we didn't even need to update the analysis, but we did w two reasons. One was we redid the counts based on the OFAPASS interchange opening up, so we got realistic counts. on five eighty one fifty four. Uh but then as far as what background traffic is, is that is taking existing counts that we did. And then you grow those up to the build out year to account for other developments that

are are that are in the area. We don't necessarily add specific each specific development, but what we do is we take the historical growth rate, we add that per year, and that then gives us a annual growth rate that we use to grow up the existing traffic to come up with what that future traffic will be. That was how many PMP hour trips? It was over a thousand.

Moody

And If I had to translate that back to new units built in the area, roughly how many would that be?

Henry

That would be roughly a a thousand single family, roughly probably two thousand opposed to two thousand townhome multifamily type uses. So that's per's like seven thousand. But that's perfect.

GirardiVice Chair

up per year.

Henry

No, that was the that was the total for the

GirardiVice Chair

total for a background.

Henry

Okay. Okay.

Connected City

What what build out year were you using? Uh twenty thirty five. Okay.

Henry

Uh and but the the in in addition to that, what this project is doing is one building the Vision Road. So um uh you know the Wiregrass has the obligation in their development degree to build it from 581 to Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard. There is no obligation for them to build it from Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard to 54. So there's nobody online or obligated to build that. So this project is going to build a segment of roadway that, you know, the reality

is maybe many, many years before that ever gets built. So that helps with a parallel facility to 54 that likely would not get built for many years if this project weren't to do it. And in addition to that, we are adding the additional lane at the intersection of Saddlebrook Way and 54, which will help the traffic. The reality is it will help the traffic. We're adding it'll make it a dual northbound left turn lane and a separate right turn lane. So from that standpoint and

from what we're looking at is overall with the roadway improvements, intersection improvements this this project is doing, it is a betterment to the overall transportation system than what is out there today, or what will be out there if this project weren't above.

GreyChair

Okay, any other questions?

Connected City

So um Safe Saddlebrook uh I guess they uh it looks like from the packet that we received from them that they had spoken with their own traffic um analysis person, Drew Rourke, uh with Alex Rourke Engineering. Um and they just brought up a couple of of issues. Um one they were saying that it doesn't take into account The traffic impacts of the multifamily in area B that's being proposed.

Um that's what they said. Is that correct?

Henry

This analysis takes into consideration the entire development that we're proposing in both areas. In addition to that, what we also did is when we did the counts, the resort units were only about 30% occupied. So we then added the additional traffic, assuming that those were 100% occupied, in the background traffic. So we also added that into it, which isn't a requirement, but we added that in.

Moody

Okay. But when you're looking at the level of service on the roadway, you're accounting for the reduction allowed by the code for Motor.

Unidentified speakerVoice E

Well no, there there is no reduction in traffic. Well it's it's a I'll just say an allowable increase of traffic on the available roadway. I it it

Henry

it accounts for the V C ratio to go from the volume of capacity ratio to go from one

Unidentified speakerVoice E

to one point two. Okay. Correct, yes. So that presumes we all buy that there'll be Yeah. Approximately twenty percent.

Moody

Less trips generated because people will walk and bike.

Henry

Well no, no again we well, but from from our when we do the analysis, we don't reduce the traffic.

Moody

I understand that. What I'm saying is the reason that the code allows for the V to C ratio to exceed one and be one point two is the presumption is that there will be enough people that walk and bike between the proposed apartment units and the commercial that that impact to the roadway. Won't matter too much.

Henry

Well and and and it's also a um encouragement to do more the live work, you know, uh multi-use type projects. So it's an incentive to do that type of development. But yes. There's incentive, but is it reality? I I think there there is a percentage of internal capture that will happen with the

Moody

qu I believe there will be too. I'm not sure it's equivalent to twenty percent of the roadway

capacity, but

Henry

Yeah, and and that's yeah, that that was the and and and the reality when you look at it, the intersection other than Five eighty one. and and uh fifty four. All of 'em operate with a V C ratio of less than one. and the roadway segments operate with a D C ratio less than one. The only one that doesn't is five eighty one and uh fifty four. And the reality is the improvements that we're doing, one is this bypass road that will help that situation. But in addition

to that, right now you you wire grass ranch boulevard doesn't go Seth. So once that opens up, that will help disperse some of that traffic. That's now has to the only way to get to the interstate is to go up five eighty one. This will help disperse some of that traffic. So when those two things happen, it's gonna help the overall transportation system in the area.

GreyChair

Anything else for Steve? Thank you, Steve. Thank you. Okay, Barbara.

Barbara Wilhite

Thank you again for all of your time and patience. I hear about mass investment and so I want to take those three conditions and actually just break them down because we just look at them like they aren't anything. They're just words. Um

Whoops, let me go the other way.

But I just want to talk about them for a minute.

So think about it, what 27 says. It says you have to do a new golf course driving range and that goes with the new golf school facility. Up front. Investment. Then, before you can do anything in Area 1, you have to complete renovation of eighteen holes. That's in the six to ten million dollar range before we do anything in area one. Wait a minute. There's one more thing you have to do before you can do anything in area one. You gotta build the vision road. At least another three million dollars. So we're talking about ten million dollars before

we can do anything in area one. So To he to hear the commentary that we're not doing anything for tourism and we're violating the comp plan regarding tourism, we pr they're protecting the golf course areas forever. If that's not meeting the tourism goal. And your comprehensive plan? I don't know how we'll overmeet it because it's subs that is substantial amount of investment. Their investment is going to drive other the other investment. Um So I just wanted

us to break that down and kind of think about what that means. Regarding the three fifty one, you know, that doesn't even equal out to a percentage. If you did 300, it would be 60%, so at least it correlates to a percentage of the development of the residential units. So we we can do th you know, make that three hundred. I When I sit and listen to my team I've spent a gazillion hours with these guys and with the the the coalition group Timing this stuff out is tricky. And the worst thing I want to do is screw

it up, because then we'll have no investment. if we screw up the timing. When you're ten million dollars in before you can do anything in Area One It's not like they're not gonna complete it. But if I agree to something that screws up this timing so they can't start because they don't they're they're can't get their development program in order and their investment in order, we will have a done a disservice. So I'm I'm comfortable changing it to 300 because that is 60 percent it's because

I don't even know what the math is for 351. But I I'm very uncomfortable with continuing to To take the assumption that they're not investing and they're not committed and then continuing to ratchet this down to the extent that they won't invest, they can't invest. So I want us to be careful about that. And and and I know Jordan's gonna talk about this a little bit more, but this is just my perspective of meeting with this team and sitting in the conference room at Saddleburg and listening and listening and listening and listening. It's tricky to renovate a resort while

you keep it open. And so there's timing issues of doing that. And I just want I believe that they're they're not gonna do all those things and spend that ten million dollars up front and start commencing commencing and then not finish. But we have a condition that says what you have to finish and we have a linkage between development and area one. That's what we were asked to do. We were asked to do a linkage to make sure that development area one could get ahead and they would just actually vote what it what was said was they're just gonna do development area one and two and not do anything else. So

we created that linkage but then to try to ratchet down that linkage to the extent that we screw it up, I just don't want to do that to them because I will be a failure in my re in my view.

GirardiVice Chair

Barbara, can you oh go ahead. Uh

Connected City

I

was

just gonna say for for the record I I agree with you that that linkage is great and that definitely sh shows they're putting their money where their mouth is. Um do you think it's possible to um for those three hundred and fifty one units or three hundred units as you're saying, is it you think it would be possible to put a target date on that?

Barbara Wilhite

It is very tricky to renovate a resort. I mean you're talking about completion of of of resort renovations that you have to time. You're talking about the

Connected City

the development of area one, the construction of those three hundred and fifty one residential units in area one. So that's what one of the um residents had expressed concern over is that, you know, that could last years and years and they would like to at least see some idea for a target date. So I was wondering if it's possible to put a target date on that.

Barbara Wilhite

Well what I can't say we I I don't feel comfortable doing anything just here uh because it's a lot of programming and I've they've gotta go through and and and do that. So um you know we

Connected City

I'm not asking you to do it now. I'm

Barbara Wilhite

just asking if

Connected City

it's possible to come up with a target date.

Barbara Wilhite

I don't know. Um I don't know.

GreyChair

It would seem to me that the um it would be in the interest of the developer to move that along as quickly as possible because i he he can't even get in the building inspection on his three hundred units until he gets that stuff done. To get all the renovation done. So for him to drag his feet would be it wouldn't make any sense to me.

Well we're talking about she's talking about

Barbara Wilhite

three oh one would be the the number now.

GirardiVice Chair

The only thing I'm gonna caution the Planning Commission about dates, and I just fully understand why it says that on Brooklyn would prefer dates, but one thing that you all need to know is that there's a state law that says every time there's a state of emergency declared in the state of Florida, they can extend those dates by the duration of the state of emergency plus six months. And so Anytime we put a date in any of our approvals, it's effectively meaningless. Because this is not something the county ever did, this is something the state legislature did to us. So You

can put a date in there, but I'm just telling you, every time there's a state of emergency they can extend it.

Connected City

First hurricane.

GirardiVice Chair

We have we have we have M PDs that have been extended for ten years because of all the states of emergency. It can be a state of emergency on the east coast of Florida when our dates still get extended. So it's the dates end up being They might feel good to save Saddler Book to have a date in there, but again, through no fault of the county, it's very difficult for us to enforce the dates.

Moody

Barbara, what's magic about 300?

Barbara Wilhite

Well again as it was explained, well it's sixty percent of the units and as y you're trying to balance it. And you're trying to create a balance and saying, okay, can't we have to create a number that there's still units left. We're at five hundred are the number of units for area one. So it's sixty percent of the units. So you pro you create it so that you can't get past a certain point without finishing these things. Well yeah,

Moody

so I understand that. Why not a hundred years?

Barbara Wilhite

Because again it's not suggesting it should be a hundred.

Moody

I'm just saying

Barbara Wilhite

that it's

a good thing.

Again, if you make it if you make it so that they can't invest because you've got it so strict then you you defeat the purpose of I mean in the end of the day it was a linkage. It was what it was was said was they don't there's stuff there's development in area one left that they can't get s so far until they do the renovation. And so that's what that linkage is. That's what it creates.

Connected City

I'm assuming that that way you've developed enough of the resort to to generate the revenue to be able to do the renovations on the or you've developed enough of those units to be able to

do that.

Barbara Wilhite

Um as far as the the whole discussion about the the third party um resort owner units, that discussion came up last week. It was never raised in any of our coalition meetings. So we're working at that. You you saw that I had language that I've actually been talking to Dave Engel about, we actually sent it to him, um, that I read from and so We understand that issue. We have a finding of fact regarding it. It's well it's We

like I say, we understand it and we're working on it and um in good faith and we'll and we'll continue to work on that. We we believe that the investment that that saddle that mass capital makes will make these folks want to renovate. They are investors as has been stated. They're it's actually a securities which is kind of interesting about these there that is a registered security. Those aren't there aren't homes, those are securities. So they're investors and their motivation is return on investment. And there's no better way to get them to to um invest

than to make sure Mass investing. And I just went through and told you how we're making sure that Mass's invest investing right there. So we'll we'll work on that. Um The other thing is like the sidewalk in front of the school, I w I was kinda surprised that was said because I went through and explained that the condition thirty-one i is a new multi-use path that goes right in front of that school. And that has to be done, there's a timing for that in condition thirty-one.

I'm not sure.

School District Representative

Barbara, that's a private school. I mean I think people need to know that. It's not a public school.

Barbara Wilhite

Oh right, right. Yes, it's it's part of the tennis and golf academy facilities. The other thing is is I don't want to underestimate, you know, Mr. Swoke what he said about Fox Hunt Drive. When I came to the county in 1996, the first assignment that I had on my desk, the first, was the concern of the residents on Fox Hunt Drive regarding the resort traffic. We had no solution in 1996. But I'm telling you, with this project we do. that secondary access so that when you do have resort we've been at the resort, you know, we've

we've all been to the resort at different times and um went to to um events there. That secondary access, everybody can go out of that access, doesn't exist today. So It's a pretty major step forward that I wasn't able to solve in nineteen ninety six when I first came to the county and um sat in the chair there. But this project does does do that. So I'm gonna let Jordan talk to you. He has he really knows what he's talking about. I just can tell you my perspectives after working on this so long. Um

GirardiVice Chair

Barbara, is Jordan gonna address the issue of because there was a lot of comments made about a rear one. And I heard two requests. One was to I think the request was either to decrease the density or make it look greener, you know add more landscaping.

Barbara Wilhite

So yes, like

GirardiVice Chair

so I guess I know your position on the density, but I guess I have not heard your position on helping with landscaping.

Barbara Wilhite

Well mudderum Mudderum is your code and we're complying with your code and it has open space requirement in it, it's got neighborhood park requirement in it. So we're taking your code and saying we're going to comply with that. That is the tool that we use, the county uses to create these places. And we intend to use that code.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yeah.

GirardiVice Chair

I guess the question though is I think their comment is that there's a certain green feel to when you drive in and that when you see the sea of parking I and I'll let Brad come up and say how much landscaping is or is not required under Mutterham, but Uh I suspect what they're looking for is you can't reduce the density. They're probably looking for some commit more meaningful commitment on Landscaping. Yeah, the the

the look and feel of the

Barbara Wilhite

Well you can't see that I mean they're the concept plan does have quite

Quite a bit of green buffering. Very intentional. buffering put on that con binding concept plan that'll have to be implemented obviously a construction plan staff level but I I wouldn't say that what's depicted there is anything but pretty significant. Member and the other thing is is this is their front door as well. So And that should have to quantify it. uh at this point, but between having Mutterum which talks about how we design this, a binding concept plan that shows that amount

of landscaping, buffering, um

And the fact that it's our front door as well.

Moody

parking ratio that's required for the park for the apartment.

Barbara Wilhite

So the county code is 2.25 spaces per unit. Um a lot of people do 1.9 as an alternative standard. But we really don't have a code provision for mixed use, so we we have to study that when we do the mixed use product and come up with the right parking ratio. And 'cause you've got shared parking, so we st that's gotta be studied. The county doesn't have a moderate parking standard.

Connected City

Do you know how many do you know how many spaces are in this uh concept?

It's gotta be nine hundred or so. Yeah, yeah.

Saez

I just wanted to reiterate that we haven't we aren't at site plan yet. This is this is still a concept. So um to answer David's questions regarding landscaping, um you know Mudderum requires a certain amount of ability to get from place to place, which can impact landscaping to some extent, but it does not necessarily require additional landscaping. Um that could be something they voluntarily agreed to. Again, we couldn't give you details on what that landscape would be until we're closer to the site plan

stage and we know exactly how all these pieces will will actually kind of inter interwork. So it's it's very early to really kind of get into too much detail on that.

GirardiVice Chair

Well I guess let me ask you and Barbara a question, 'cause this is the binding concept plan H is is what's shown on this plan Allowed by Motorum? In your opinion, Bro?

Saez

In my opinion, it likely is. Um the thing is that uh you know you're not seeing a true depiction of the actual number of trees or number of plants or things like that that are gonna show up on an actual landscape plan. Uh you know, you have different tree canopy sizes, different heights, different understory uh landscaping and shrubbery and all kinds of stuff that puts in there. So you know there may be where you see something that looks like one tree here they may be a hundred different lanes.

GirardiVice Chair

I

mean

just for I mean I guess what I'll I'll just give you one example. So like if you're driving on Saddleburg Way You know, are the residents gonna have to look at the back of those town home units without any meaningful landscape oper I mean I I can't tell from this plan Like I I don't know if that level detail gets to whether site plan approval or you're gonna look at this and say, Well, you've gotta have at least ten trees between Saddlebrook Way and the back of the town hall. So I I'm trying to figure out how this is gonna work in practice.

Saez

Right. So it this would be something that the applicant can agree to do something above and beyond if they so choose. Um or we would look at the code or if there's a specific condition applied by or recommended by this board or this committee to uh the board for approval um to put some sort of an increase there, we would enforce that as well. Otherwise we would basically be going by Yeah code.

GirardiVice Chair

So so you don't view the number so you don't view the number of trees shown on this plant as being binding in any way?

Saez

Correct. I don't know that it's to scale. I don't know that it would show any of that. So but yes. The concept plan theory just shows us what was what's expected. The intent.

Moody

Correct. I'm glad you brought up back at the townhouse units though. Which Barbara I want to ask a question because there was no variation requested. This has to do with condition forty nine. That the landscape buffers on the exterior of the MPUD boundary are to be located within easement and can be counted toward the minimum setback requirements. Well, so the rear setback on the town homes is ten feet. And my question was what

was the landscape buffer with that's required back there since we're gonna have in the exterior residential against residential.

Barbara Wilhite

So I would like to delete condition forty nine. I did a really bad job writing that. So I'm not even sure what that means because those those are lots. And so and we don't put buffers in lots, we put buffers in tracks. So I did a really bad job with that. Um so I'd like to delete that and put that on the record and if you make a motion I'd like to conclude that. Um I'd also I'd answer your question, the the landscape buffers are fifteen feet and the setback written here um is ten feet, so be

twenty five feet.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

That's residential to residential right to put on the So they'll

Moody

be and so they'll be twenty-five feet from the my concern is that we have an area and I'm more concerned about area two. We're backing up well actually in area one as well. You're backing up to some nice estate residential in area one and you're backing up to AR properties in area. Area two and that condition would have intended you know would have implied that there might have only been a ten foot setback to those lots. But twenty

five seems a bit more reasonable.

Barbara Wilhite

Yes, that I will thank you for pointing out that terribly written condition. And if we need to work on language um in between now and the board, our our intent is to have enhanced landscaping. Um that's what that plan, that's why it has all those trees and planting on it. But if we need to work on something well certainly,

GirardiVice Chair

so I mean to to go back to my example, if you're driving in South Brookway, what will you s where those town homes are on the east side, what will you see? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Barbara Wilhite

Aaron, that would be you.

GirardiVice Chair

Because I see a possibility you're looking into the backyard of people's homes without any meaningful buffer. But I I can't tell because I don't know how binding that

Moody

Well can I Sorry to interrupt you. If we were doing let's say we were designing a big MPUD, we had a main road in, what would happen is there's generally a wall that separates those main roadways from those development pods. I'm thinking of River Crossing Boulevard being one. It was a wall.

GirardiVice Chair

Maybe, but I don't know that there's anything in these MP conditions that requires what you just said.

Moody

Well, that's why we're talking about it, so that's a good thing.

GirardiVice Chair

So I I don't And I'm not hearing that Mutterum necessarily requires a wall there. It does not. So

You know. I'm just posing the question because it's the most obvious example of residents potentially looking at

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, I think personally I think both sides of Saddlebrook Way need to be protected and I think there needs to be some type of condition in there requiring some type of buffer, whatever that may be. And I frankly I don't I don't know that there's a buffer that exists in the County Code that that specifies what everybody's looking for. Wouldn't we

Moody

be like a one of the right away buffers, Brad, that might be applicable to that?

Saez

So in a situation like this you would look at it compared to the use across the street. But the in in this particular case I do want everybody to realize that that you know, I know you mentioned walls and things like that. Walls walls create their own type of ugliness, so to speak. So it's plants and lush landscaping in the appropriate places tend to be the better option there. Um, you know, again if it depends on the the scenario and what happens, but um If if walls are something that you guys want, um, you know, is it

a masonry wall, is it a fence?

Moody

I don't want to make the I don't want to leave you with the presumption that I'm intending to make some sort of motion to add a wall. I'm with Jamie in that there needs to be some buffering. I hear this from the Saddlebrook residents that there's a concern. About the entryway and preserving some of the openness of that entryway. I actually think a wall might kind of close that off. Right. It can also

Saez

impact trees.

Moody

I think what we're looking at or tell me guys if I'm headed the right way is maybe some kind of minimum setback from Saddles Brook Way to where parking and construction can be so that there is this sense of openness along the boulevard.

GirardiVice Chair

I'm not sure a setback solves the problem because a setback could be devoid of trees.

Christopher Poole

I think it's the idea of there's there's plenty of space within that site plan to possibly shift it oh we lost the site plan.

Denise

We're gonna bring up the c we're gonna bring up the c binding concept plan because it does call out that there's gonna be six foot fences. Yeah but

I'm just letting it I think

Barbara Wilhite

what we should do is is agree to a condition.

Moody

Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

think we should agree to a condition that we have to to prepare an enhance landscape detail. a minimum enhance land safe detail, force out of our way, work with staff and just make that a condition and we'll we'll go do it. And just and let 'em let 'em. We view it and see it and we'll prepare it and our team will prepare it. 'Cause it can be prepared. We can do it.

GreyChair

Yeah, I mean yeah, I think those are important things. I think they can be worked out. I think I would hate to um I deny the application based on the fact that y w we can't work out these few items.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah me. C can we make a motion today to Give them conditions that they address certain things in before the board meeting?

GirardiVice Chair

Yes, I don't know that you have to craft the exact I think you can you can generally say what you're looking for in terms of conditions

Unidentified speakerVoice A

without 'cause well I mean we talked about the timing of the completion of the stuff. They there was some stuff that they wanted to consider and discuss internally before they went to the board. Um this landscape buffer and w whatever kind of landscaping. I mean to me I think it's keeping it as natural looking as possible to me a wall does not do that for Saddlebrook Wayne. Yeah,

Moody

I

Unidentified speakerVoice A

it's more along the lines of some enhanced landscaping.

Moody

Right. There's some s I think the residents need some solution to make sure that there's a broad corridor for Silent Brook Way that is lush like they currently have. And I know we saw some pretty renderings and I don't doubt that they will wanna make Saddlebrook Way landscaped in a lush manner. That is the entrance to their resort. I believe that they'll do that. I think we just have to get s A little bit more than what's near.

Christopher Poole

Yeah, I think that there's a bunch of water examples that's shown on that site plan. I mean the the retention down in that south what that be the southwest corner for example. I mean could that be shifted up? I mean they're just ideas and understanding that we're not at site plan, but we have been provided with this. So it's an

GreyChair

aerial of what it is to do with water.

School District Representative

Yeah, I

was

gonna mention that 'cause I'm looking at aerial.

Moody

I understand there's a big drive range there. Jamie.

GreyChair

I

Unidentified speakerVoice A

I think were you John, were you guys looking at something?

GreyChair

Oh, I'm sorry.

John are you saying something looking at something?

Moody

We I had asked if we could see an aerial photograph of what it what the roadway looked like today. Just the road.

School District Representative

I was gonna say I'm looking at it right now on my computer, but it's it's it might be an idea just to leave it uh to the extent possible, 'cause there's a lot of trees there right now. And I think you could leave it and then still develop behind it.

Barbara Wilhite

Little street view.

Well again let us create the require us to create the landscape detail and and have staff approve it. You know, with us, work with us. And I think on both sides of Howard Way that's the way to condition it.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, Barbara.

The renovation of the the rental units, whatever they're called. I guess Can you confirm again? I I think I remember from last time when we talked about this during the Land News hearing but Are are all those units all in one pool and they all split the rentals?

Barbara Wilhite

I am definitely gonna turn this over to Jordan.

GreyChair

Yeah, we're Doctor. Before we get to that issue, I have one more question for Barbara.

GirardiVice Chair

Barbara, um one thing I noticed on the concept plan is in area two Yeah, job of it. It you have a you have an L D C variation to not interconnect to the east or west, but but if you look at the actual graphic, it looks like you have interconnects to the east and wests. So how quite confusing, huh? So what is your intent?

Barbara Wilhite

Right hand doesn't know what they're doing. Um so either the

GirardiVice Chair

lawyer doesn't know what they're doing or the planner doesn't know what they're doing.

Barbara Wilhite

I'll take responsibility.

So let me see. So yes, I wrote the variations 'cause they're platted. Um and so we can fix the concept plan. But I I do note that when I was going through this yesterday 'cause this was pointed out to me, my error in my ways here, We did look at area two, development area two, um to the east, and there is a dentist office, the two Lots coming down from fifty-four on that east side of development area two. It's a dentist office. They're both owned

by a dentist. Dentist office and then Stuff related to his dentist's office, whether it's pond or whatever. So And then uh perhaps that connection or at least the the future stub out for that probably makes sense. So I probably need to bury my variation and just leave that one. The one to the west makes no sense. That's a plated residential lot. So I did do that research of what's adjacent. But I think it makes sense to vary my variation and and keep the one to the east, especially 'cause that's could be a future to a light. Right?

So uh I'd like to on the record here bury my variation, keep the bury my variation and keep the connection to the east

On development area two.

GirardiVice Chair

So you're gonna modify your binding plans and not show one to the west anymore?

Barbara Wilhite

Yes.

GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

And I'm going to change my variation narrative with staff to take out the one.

Moody

Thank you for the street view of that. I mean it looks to me like if they were to keep twenty or thirty feet to either side of the street lushly landscaped, that would preserve a nice open corridor or into the entrance without wasting all the land.

School District Representative

And he can't go any further because the Google car won't get it past the gate.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

That's we gotta keep the riff range on Yeah, I think Jordan was gonna answer my question. Oh Jordan.

Connected City

So to clarify you're proposing deleting the connection from the new to the w to the west there to to Saddlebrook Way.

Barbara Wilhite

Oh. On Saddlebrook Will.

Connected City

Oh I'm sorry.

Barbara Wilhite

The connection conversation was a filler conversation while you guys were pulling this stuff up. Gotcha. I know the answer, but I'm not

Jordan Kornberg

Thank you. I'll appreciate all the time you're taking. So to your question, so it is structured as a rental pool, which means all which is why it's a registered security and investment property, as Barbara's saying, to own in there you need to be an accredited investor, annual income above three hundred thousand net worth of a million dollars. All of the revenue is shared. So whether your unit's sold, somebody else's unit is sold, um, that revenue is then In a pool and everybody gets their share of that distribution out of it. Uh which means our units, if

we were to renovate first, everybody would just benefit from any uplift we get from that, right? Uh because a renovated unit generates more revenue, that's ultimately shared amongst everybody. Okay.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, I mean that that's kind of where I that's what I thought I remembered. I just w what makes me nervous if if I'm on you guys' side is you you have no assurance that the private owners are going to renovate their units.

Jordan Kornberg

So obviously that's something we spent a lot of time on, right? We've owned these before. We know these. There's been three renovations historically at Saddlebrook. The last one was, you know, 2002-2004 range. Um order of magnitude wise, actually if you take an inflation of today's dollar, it's gonna be about the same size renovation that we're planning to do, and everybody invested. There's a handful of unit owners. That ultimately don't renovate, those units get sold, and somebody else does with the renovation. But there's been three renovations in Saddleburgh's

history, and in all of them, the pool has been maintained and people are renovated. And and I think the other thing too is you heard from the president of the board of the resort association, and you saw the survey of his constituents. Overwhelmingly, the condo hotel unit owners understand. The need for renovation here. Frankly, they were pushing for it when Tom Dempsey owned the property. The reason they didn't do it is they also understood if all they did was renovate their units and the common areas didn't get renovated, that

didn't make sense. And Tom Dempsey was unwilling to commit to renovating the common areas. And we've committed to the owners in our meetings that ultimately what we send them to ask them to renovate their units. will include a condition that binds us to renovate ours. Because it's unreasonable for us to say, sure, hey by the way, sign up and renovate, but we're not going to commit to renovate our part, so you might be left hanging. We're we're not going to allow that to happen.

Connected City

I is the plan to I know you've probably provided a concept of the of the renovation already to the owners. So I I know one person asked about a model. Um so is there a plan to

Jordan Kornberg

So as of today, uh there's actually furniture starting to arrive on property for those model rooms. Uh you know, we've provided initial estimates actually anybody during our ownership who's bought a condo hotel unit has been pro they you have to find a disclosure to say you're an accredit investor. In that we've we've included an estimated sixty thousand dollar renovation in there. Only I think only sixteen units in Sold in our ownership period and values have doubled. So the idea that we're doing something to depress value of units, buy a bunch of units, you

know, harm other people, it is no secret. We are losing money hand over fist on this resort. We've also invested five million last year. We're planning to invest another five million this year. So when Barbara was talking about the size of investment. That wasn't including the ten million that we're already putting into the resort. tripling revenues as as Michael was speaking about. So yes, I mean we we we are we are doing all of those things and making all those commitments and the model room we've committed to all the people the owners in the condo program

that in the second quarter we will provide the room renovation plans and costs. We are still in it we're in June, second we're still in the second quarter and that's still the goal we're working towards We're just finalizing the numbers. It's it's a very it's a lot of property, and every space, every bit of it needs renovation. You know, unfortunately, we did not inherit a property that we could sort of do part of and part of it's in good condition. It's been way too long since it's seen investment, and

it's a lot of property, a lot of square footage, a lot of coordination. And frankly, just a lot of planning given just the amount of space that we ultimately need to renovate.

Connected City

And then what what finance options are there for the owners to do those renovations?

Jordan Kornberg

So we are working, we're talking to banks on their behalf, we're working internally in terms of seeing what a financing option we can do. I will tell you in my history ultimately, like Innisburg, for example, they offered a financing option to owners. Nobody took it. Um you know, in Saddlebrook's past, I think there was a financing option one time, I think twenty to thirty percent of owners ultimately took the financing option, seventy to eighty percent ultimately renovated without the financing option. So we're working to do it. We

we're aligned, right? We we want these owners to renovate, we want the resort to maintain its keys, um, so we're aligned to helping them as best we can and making sure We can come up with financing options, we don't have that finalized yet. And the financing markets, as you know, uh sure I'm sure are are not stellar right now.

Chris Williams

Okay.

GirardiVice Chair

Any other questions? Yeah. So I made a list of at least six issues that need to be addressed when whoever's making the motion, but I don't know. Make sure I says Barbara, the list I have is and anybody weigh in if I miss something. Okay. Um that we need to add a condition to deal with the renovation plan for the investor owned units. Um we need to reduce the number of units in Condition number twenty nine from three fifty one to three

oh one. Did I get that condition number right? Um modify the LDC variation for area two, the eastern side, basically eliminate that variation for the eastern connection because you are going to provide an interconnect. Modify the concept plan for area two so that you don't show an interconnect to the west anymore, consistent with your LDC variation.

Add a vertical mixed use commitment to the area one. concept plan or in the conditions. I'm not sure where you're gonna add that, but there's gotta be some vertical mixed use commitment added. And then adding an enhanced landscaping plan condition alongside way. Did I miss anything? David had her deleting condition forty nine, yeah.

Barbara Wilhite

I had a list too.

Yes, we're

GirardiVice Chair

agreeable tolerance. But did I did I miss first of all did I miss anything? That was the only thing I saw.

Denise

Mr. Chair, I I I do have one housekeeping item and I apologize. There are some ex parte communic ex party communications. Um we have one from John Moody and one from Peter or two from Peter Hansel. Um I believe that uh those have been submitted to the clerk's office. The clerk just reminded me to state that for the record. Okay. Thank you.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

And I'll uh just for disclosure, I did meet with Barbara too, so Yeah, I I

Christopher Poole

I did too as well. With Barbara and her team.

GreyChair

I didn't. I I'm really you know, I'm you're hurt? I'm hurt. Me too.

And I'm changing my

Connected City

vote. Reached out to me too, but I was out of the country.

Chris Williams

This is a tough group. I'd like to make a motion to

School District Representative

Chuck to make you feel good, I didn't either

Chris Williams

approve this particular project. But excuse me. And that's with the seven modifications we just

make one comment if I may. I I took out the letter from January fourth, twenty twenty two. that uh Mr. Dempsey uh had authored to the county. And he talked about how he loved this place and d that's not his words. Those are my words from what he read here. By the way, I think his son-in-law is out there too. and he said that Saddlebrook is a A major contribution to the local community and to the Pasco County. Pasco County is my words. But I also want to indicate

that he believed the new owner, Mass Capital. And the reason I want to emphasize this is that it was brought up by the chair. That

A company That has the financial resources to make the modifications that we've suggested, to make the improvements, to make the place uh a what it was in the past and what it will become in the in the future. And I strongly would encourage us as board members to go back and look in your packet and and look at the letter he wrote. Because what he wrote here and what I read through it is that he He's he's putting his legacy on the block with his company. And that's

what I saw. A legacy is the most important thing that I think a human being can leave.

when they m move forward into their next life. But uh so therefore that's what the motion is and I hope that uh we all vote in favor of it.

Connected City

Okay,

GreyChair

so we have a motion on the floor.

Connected City

I I'd second the motion too, and and the comment I would say is they're definitely proving that they're putting their money where their mouth is, and there's a lot of conditions that are tied to development of these residential properties that's tied to development of the uh or redevelopment of the resort. So uh I think that there's comments that were made in a previous meeting uh with Saddlebrook um by some some of the residents b with concern that uh perhaps they're going to just get this rezoned and flip it or something like that. And it doesn't it's it's apparent

to me that that's not the case, that they are really wanting to do the right thing and and really uh improve this property. So I'd I'd second that motion.

GreyChair

So we have a motion and a second. Now we do have further discussion. I do

GirardiVice Chair

have one discussion point. I guess then you know, when is the schedule to go to the board?

Currently.

Barbara Wilhite

July eleventh.

GirardiVice Chair

I guess my question for you, Barbara and Amy, is Are you gonna be able to address I mean some of these are just wording issues, but you know, creating the landscape plan, I mean th I some of these is that all gonna be able to be done by July eleventh and particularly I wanna make sure that we're not dumping it on the board and the residents at the last minute because They needed you know we we requested a lot of changes here and I don't I want to make sure everybody's had a chance to evaluate it the project with these

changes. My question to you is are you gonna be able to get that done by July eleventh?

Barbara Wilhite

Yes.

GirardiVice Chair

Bay, are you agreeing with that?

Christopher Poole

She's cautiously walking up.

Amy Heiler

Yes. At this point in time, yes, I believe we can uh work on these conditions before the July eleventh BCC hearing.

GreyChair

Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

I have nothing on my calendar next week 'cause I will be away so I can work on it.

GreyChair

All right. So any any further discussions?

Christopher Poole

No, but uh my only point is that you know thank thank Mass for the unprecedented sharing of information. I didn't have the pleasure of sitting through the comprehensive plan amendment that uh went uh so I I did get the fun of missing that one, but I'm here now. But I want to thank folks on both sides for taking the the time to actually kind of work through it. I think having Mass is a part When Pasco County is fantastic. I think it's um gonna put Saddlebrook, I mean Saddlebrook's already on the map, but it's really gonna put it back on the map. So I appreciate the

interaction and uh uh I I think it's gonna be a beautiful thing when it's done. So thank you on both sides.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Yeah, and I'll I'll add that, you know, um obviously at the comp plan hearing we we asked for a lot of non typical stuff and a lot of that non typical stuff and all the details seem to be addressed and be added into this zoning amendment. So I think kudos that Barbara, I don't know, thirty-two public hearing, neighborhood meetings, that that's probably the most I've ever heard. Yep. Um I mean I realize they weren't all together and everybody in one room, but I don't know. that that's even productive to have everybody all together. Sometimes there's certain groups that want to talk about certain things and then that's the way

you address it. So it's a good job by everybody and I'm glad everybody was able to come together. Again, it's a huge project, huge undertaking. Um but it is a it's a jewel in the county and and you know we we appreciate you guys all working together and hope we continue to do so moving forward.

School District Representative

Uh I just want to add on too the remember the first thing that Barbara did, she went through the whole process. There was like three pages of meetings. And so to have all those meetings and have maybe ten people here show up, I think it it's testament to what they've done, the commitment they've made and all the things they've done. So

GirardiVice Chair

So Barbara, the reason I brought up the timing issue is because when I heard Save Sower Book, the two big issues they had were the renovation of resort, which in theory should be cured by the condition dealing with how we're gonna deal with the investor-owned units. Um and possibly the reduction of the 351 to 301. But the other issue was there was area one and what I heard from them was. was either reduce the density or make it look better. That's what I kind of heard from you say. It sounds like Planning

Commission saying make it look better, which it sounds like you're willing to do with this enhanced landscaping. I do think it's important if you're gonna try to get them on board with you and holding hands at the board meeting, that they have a chance to see this enhanced landscaping plan that you have for Area One. So my hope is that you can go into the board meeting holding hands.

Barbara Wilhite

I would hope that too.

GirardiVice Chair

So I think that's why it's important I think you get them the landscaping stuff as soon as possible. Amy, did you have something you wanted to do?

GreyChair

Okay. You say something you wanna say something?

Amy Heiler

Just uh real quick, that's okay. Uh Jane approached me. She did want to put something on record if possible as it related to the unit count. It's up to you though.

GreyChair

Yeah, no, I think we're I think we've covered it. So let's we have a motion, we have a second, we have a discussion, let's move. Okay, so all in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed like sign? Motion carries.

School District Representative

One more asking? Okay. I think so.