Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment (Regular) - CPAL 21(10) North Pasco RV Resort –Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment to the Future Land Use Maps (2-15 And Sheet 07) Changing from AG/R (Agricultural/Rural) to PD (Planned Development) on Approximately 131.68 Acres of Real Property Located East of Lake Iola Road and South of Blanton Road; A Text Amendment Creating Subarea Policy FLU 7.1.63 - North Pasco RV Resort; A Map Amendment to the Future Land Use Map 2-9 Adding Subarea Map 2-9(63) North Pasco RV Resort.

50:06Madam Chairman, members of the board This matter was continued from the Board of County Commissioners on January eleventh.

50:21Oh just a moment please let me ask you a question. On that one that we did before you guys got the advertising right, it was all fine. Yeah. Clark's the other one. Okay, 'cause I turned off my mic but I I knew you were having some discussion because I think Clark had his proof. If we needed it. Yeah, that's what I'm kinda checking.

50:42Yeah, the the resolution that that Mr. Sample had in the package was Indicated that it was for January eleventh. This board took action on January eleventh to continue it. So hearing today was pr appropriate for that.

50:56Okay.

51:00Um and again on this particular matter this uh was published in the Tempe Bay Times on November twenty fourth uh for the meeting of January the eleventh.

51:13for a hearing and con uh then continued to this day.

51:19All right. Thank you. Valerie Brookens with the Planning and Development Department. Today is case number PDD 22088 is a large-scale comprehensive plan amendment under the name CPAL 2110 North Pasco RV Resort. This shows the location. It is in the North Market area as well as the Northeast Pasco rural area. It is along I-75, east of

51:49Lake Iola and south of Blanton Road.

51:55The proposals to amend the future land use map 2-15, sheet seven from AGAR agricultural rule to PD Plan Development contains approximately 132 acres and to allow for RV resort with a maximum of 550 RV spaces. As I stated, it's along I 75, east of Lake Iola Road, and south of Blanton. Resolution is to amend the future land use maps 215

52:25sheet 7 and create a sub-area policy 7.1.63 North Pasco RV Resort and amend the future land use map 2-9, creating subarea 2-963, North Pasco RV Resort. There is also a master plan unit development rezoning proposal. be required to implement the standards in the sub-area policy.

52:51This shows the existing future land use, which is the agricultural rule. The proposed to go to P D

53:02And this shows the conceptual plan.

53:07And the following policies uh were found to be consistent with the comprehensive plan, policy flu 1.6.1, commercial development. Policy flu 2.15, protection of existing topography. Policy flu 2.19, rural lighting standards. Policy flu 2.11, rural residential roads, policy flu 2.1.13, provision of potable water and sanitary sewer.

53:39On January 6th, the local planning agency recommended approval to the Board of County Commissioners, and staff recommends the Board of County Commissioners find the proposed amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan and authorized transmittal to DEO and other review agencies.

53:57Okay, I think we have the applicant coming up now and The applicant has requested and been granted some extra time.

54:09Good afternoon. Barbara Wilheite, 23, excuse me, 6327, Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey, 34652.

54:19While they're bringing up our first PowerPoint, I have a few things I'd like to have the board receive and file. We have some handouts with some exhibits at the dais. The clerk's been uh has a copy of that as well. We have our two PowerPoints. My PowerPoint and Francis Chanel Marino's PowerPoint that they have their electronic Um we have a compant analysis and a zoning analysis, hard copy, and Francis Chandler Moreno's um resume. If we could receive and file.

54:46Second. Second.

54:49All in

54:50favor?

54:50Aye.

54:50Aye.

54:56Um if number one?

55:02No.

55:06Thank you.

55:10I have my um Project team here. Everybody's healthy and here. Can't say that all the time. Joe Simoneau from WRA. Steve Henry and Alia Teffy from Linkson Associates. Greg Mayfield from Southern Water. who is working with us on our wastewater treatment facility. The Francis Changel Marino. Brian Nolan from Lacito and Associates, our landscape architect. Proud to have them all here. They've been a wonderful team. And I'd like to tell you about North Pasco Arvey Resort. This

55:41is the transmittal hearing of the comprehensive plan amendment. We will be back before you, assuming you um vote to move forward today. We'll be back before you on April 5th. for the Comp Plan adoption hearing as well as the MPUD zoning hearing.

56:00Project history. We've been working on this for uh a couple years now. Looks like it's an anniversary of of our submittals on on the 19th of February. We first started out with 675 RV spaces. Which was kind of a guess. We were in the land use and zoning world of, you know, we didn't know all of our design details. Went to our first neighborhood meeting on September 10th, 2019, had about a hundred people there. It was at Lake Javita, a lot of interest. And a lot of questions were very specific and we wanted to be able to answer those

56:30questions. And so we slowed down and hired this wonderful team to join to join the project. And Went through a lot of details, and through that we realized that our RV resort would have 550 spaces. And we had a second neighborhood open house on August 25th, 2021. less people. We and before that open house we did a community outreach website. Sent that notice to everybody within a thousand feet and

57:01every person that attended that neighborhood meeting got the link to our community outreach website, which had a lot of information on it. We did that so that a lot of times With projects like this, it's kind of somebody tells somebody, tell somebody, it tells somebody, and the facts get lost. So we want to make sure the facts were out there.

57:19This is located along I-75, south of the Blanton Road Interchange, the first interchange when you come south on I-75 into Pasco County. I-75 in that location has 48,500 vehicles per day in 2020 volumes. A lot of people coming into Pasco County. Our resort's gonna have a minimum of 10,000 square feet of resort lodge and clubhouse facilities, a maximum of 550 RV spaces. They can accommodate RVs, yurts, airstreams, or resort cottages. So if you don't have

57:50your own um vehicle to drive in or excuse me, your own RV to drive in or pull in, you can um rent a resort cottage, yurt or airstream. I'm like a hotel room. And enjoy the resort that way as well. We have no density, no dwelling units, no permanent attachments to our RVs, yurts, airstreams, or resort cottages. And our project cannot be subdivided. This is not density. These are not lots. These are not dwelling units.

58:16Looking at our project and how it compares to other projects in the county from a RV spaces per acre, the lowest RV spaces per acre at 4.66 RV spaces per acre. Quell'un to our south. is about double, a little less than double. Of that, I-75 frontage, Three Lakes RV, you can see the, you know, I don't need to read them to you, you can see the different um RV spaces per acre of different projects. Most recently, Ancorporate Resort was approved

58:47and a little bit more RV spaces per acre, but you can see that as we design these better, the RV spaces per acre are coming down. And that's what Quail Run looks Querl Run looks like at almost double the RV spaces per acre. And that's how it's amenitized.

59:04We have no full-time residence and our resort cottages cannot be homesteaded. Our maximum maximum occupancy in any 12-month period shall be less than six months. And the question came up with Planning Commission, well how do you know? Well the state, because on these types of projects, um the state has a tourist tax and they have taxes that they want to collect, and so they make sure that you have to do a guest register as the state requirement. And um to to prove that that people are only staying no more

59:35than six months. Six months is a state law definition of transient. And so that's what we follow. Um that's what all the RV parks follow. And our guest register uh will include license license plate verification, which is how do you know that the wife didn't sign the register for six months and then the husband signed the register for six months? Well you verify the the license plates. I've always been asked whenever I go to R V park I have to show them my license plate on my R V.

1:00:01And at the county's request, I think We're only supposed to the state statute has a less time than three years to maintain that log. The county's request we're gonna maintain that register for longer. We've opened it up to the Pasco County, the tax collector, or the school board if they want to check to make sure those state rules are being followed.

1:00:20After our first neighborhood meeting, we hired a private wastewater treatment facility design some folks to do that. We do have a private wastewater treatment facility planned. It's going to serve only the resort. It cannot be expanded. And it's maintained by the resort owner. We prepared a topological survey. We hired a landscape architect, Brian Nolan, who is here. He did the wonderful materials that are, together with Don Ferez Studios, who did some of the renderings, did the wonderful plan that you have in front of you, all

1:00:50exceeding the code, because the code doesn't require a plan like that. We are a couple of highlights of our conceptual site plan and and Brian is here, you know, if you want to talk to him more. We looked at, I asked my team, you know, there's a lot of green space on here. What is the green space? And they said about 50% is green space, open space. And that's not including the RV space, green space, and landscaped areas. And then I asked him, Tell me about these paths and nature would walk, 'cause they're s extensive. And uh they're about two miles, which

1:01:20is about the distance I like to run, so that's perfect for me. This is our concept plan. Very thoughtfully laid out. Our amenity is centralized. Most resorts probably would have put it down by the lake. We made our area down by the lake passive. Um no monarized vehicles.

1:01:41A rendering of a resort lodge.

1:01:45Rendering of R R V spaces.

1:01:50We designed our Lake Oyola quarter buffer, which you do have in your handouts as well. To well exceed the standards for Northeast Pasco, you do have a quarter buffer requirement for your scenic roads. in your land development code. It applies to residential development. We took that and we exceeded as you can see our Firm at the base is 48 feet wide. The LDC buffer. Is four twenty five, it's at grade twenty five feet. We have 13 qualifying trees per hundred linear

1:02:20feet, the land development code. is four, our trees are four inches, the development code's three. And the trees are Our trees are twelve feet high and the gland development code's eight. We also designed an internal master landscape tree plan, which there's no real LDC requirement for. If we would just follow your code, we would have put buffers around like Other parks, you put buffers around and put some plants around our clubhouses. We designed RV spaces, landscape tree plan. Again, no requirement for those.

1:02:50We'll specifically go over those. If you want to hear about today, that's fine. But we can specifically go over those in more detail at our next hearing, which actually is the hearing on the MPUD. where these details are more relevant. But I wanted you to get to an idea of what we've done and what the quality of the project is. This is the quarter buffer cross section. 100 foot setback from the right-of-way of Lake Oriol today to the first RV spaces. This is a a the rendered master landscape plan. The

1:03:21plant plan. These are the RV space details of how we're going to landscape our RV spaces.

1:03:31We did um after listening to the neighborhood, we prohibited the launching of motorized vehicles on Moody Lake. We limited the recreational uses adjacent to the lake to passive. We prepared an updated transportation analysis. We committed to northbound and southbound turn lanes on Lake Iola Road, although not warranted, so our RVs will get out of the lane of travel. We met with county staff about the Blanton Road Lake Oil intersection, which Mr. Uh Commissioner Oakley also attended those meetings. We added things to our sub-area policies, which

1:04:01is relevant to the discussion today, because you're considering uh transmittal of the comp plan. We were The recreational uses we've talked about, requirement for cutoff luminaries, landscape and tree preservation buffers. Like a little quarter buffer. Prohibitions of chain link fences. preservation of existing native land vegetation, 100 foot setback I mentioned, no mining and regulations on grading. Didn't all didn't create these all myself. These are regulations from your land development code that you adopted for residential development. And

1:04:32we be you have not done your your commercial code for Northeast Pasco, your non-residential code. So we've put all those provisions into the comp plan to make them regulatory. And then we had uh Francis Chan the Marino. Take a look at our applications and our documents and make an independent determination of whether we were consistent with the comp plan and whether we met the requirements to zone the property as requested. Something that we've got. Did not present to Planning

1:05:02Commission because we could see the comments. We do get copies of the comments that are sent to the county. And there were quite a few comments about the use of bicycles in this area.

1:05:14And so we So we took a look at that. And our project is Well, right. Here. So you can see there's a common Bike path people use. Bike route, excuse me, comes up Lake Iola Road, underneath the interstate, along our frontage, up to um the road here. Ranch uh Bay Ranch Road. Wait a minute, I know the name. Just doing a blank

1:05:46Bayhead Road, excuse me. It's right there in front of me. And so we looked at that, and we do share the road with bicycles when we our RVs exit and go north on Lake Iola. Our entrance is at Johnston, and Bayhead is one intersection up. So we would be sharing the road as we go north, our RVs or our traffic. So in considering that we're not going to be able to We looked at your Northeast Pasco Multimodal Safety

1:06:16Action Plan 2018 that AECOM did. And we looked at what their recommendations were for shoulders. And they recommend shoulders as a as a t technique. to be able to have traffic and bikes basically share the road and kind of expand the road so there's room for both. The standard is four feet wide, and that's the recommended shoulder width in that study. When you're going uphill, side to side uphill

1:06:46side of steep grades, when you know when you do this to your bike to try to get up. They recommend six. So we don't have any steep grades like that along this stretch of of Lake Gaiola Road, but we are proposing a six foot wide instead of the the minimum four that the study recommended on the east side. of Lake Oyola from and we could just start at Johnston and just go to Bayhead. because that's where we share the road. But we wanted to have We've spent a lot of detail on this project and we want to have a consistent

1:07:17front of our project. So we're starting that um shoulder. further south as you come up Lake Iola, under the interstate, then on the on be on your right hand side as you're biking, the shoulder will start then and go up to Bayhead. Bayhead is off site, so there'll be a section of that will go up. on the east side of Lake Iola, past Johnston, which is our entrance up to Bayhead. Which is off site and then The

1:07:48bicycles turn left on Bayhead. We also are going to make sure we incorporate, and obviously your traffic operations staff will help us with with this. Well we need a right-of-way use permit, but we're going to I did note we did notice in the study that an edge stripe with audible pavement markers or rumble stripping is another thing that you add when you do these types of shoulders. This is a graphic that shows what I I tried to uh verbally depict to you.

1:08:17And that's the end of my presentation. I have Francis Channel Marino wants to go through the comp plane consistency with you. And uh our team is here to uh talk further.

1:08:26I knew she'd be wearing some some kind of shoe. I had to look.

1:08:32She has the best shoe collection ever.

1:08:34Um good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Francis Chandler Marino, M-A-R-I-N-O 1239, Fruit Cove Road North, Saint John's, Florida, and I have been sworn.

1:08:49Uh again, thank you. Um as Barbara uh mentioned. Um she had contacted me and asked me to review the application that you have before you. uh to um assess whether or not it was consistent with the comprehensive plan. To do that, I prepared a report that includes the entirety of my assessment. And so as this presentation, I want to summarize what that includes. The standard

1:09:19of review that I used for consistency is established by Florida statute. So that's the standard that I used. It's supplemented by the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. Your plan also provides provisions for how it should be reviewed and what constitutes consistency. So those are the two things that I use to make that determination. The comprehensive plan establishes a protocol for how you review and present that information. And it's done in four parts. So

1:09:50that's how my report is set up, and that's also how this presentation is set up. The four parts that you're required to look at is the general comprehensive plan review itself. In this particular case, it contains two parts. A general compatibility review. and then a review specifically with the policies of the Northeast Pasco rural area. The second part of the review is relative to natural resources and natural features.

1:10:21The third is general public facilities and services. And the fourth is transportation.

1:10:32Yeah, I have no idea how this works. Oh, there we go.

1:10:37Uh the first item is compatibility under the comprehensive plan review. Um The first thing that I looked at was the location and the adjacencies for the subject site. Um it is uh located Um in an area where the predominant existing use is agriculture, vacant, some large lot residential, and the predominance is Interstate 75. As I looked at the compatibility for this

1:11:07site, it is the location of the interstate and the proximity from that site to the interchange with Blanton Road that most informed my determination of compatibility. The interstate is a multi-lane interstate facility. As Barbara pointed out, it carries 48,500 cars a day today. That's a very intensive existing use on its two adjacencies, the adjacency to the east and the south. So that

1:11:37informed the general use of an RVE park next to the interstate. More specifically as related to the intensity of that use.

1:11:52What informed my decision about consistency was that it was being requested under a plan development. Uh that's important and relevant because the comprehensive plan. uh establishes planned developments in a specific way. It requires them to have MPUD zoning. And it requires that MPUD zoning to be pursuant to a specific master development plan. In that way, any other adjacencies can be regulated specifically. In this case, the application addressed

1:12:22the compatibility for all of the adjacent adjacencies that it has in two ways, also important. So not simply is it included in the MPUD zoning commitments as is required for a PUD, but it also included a sub-area policy text amendment. That's important because the very specific compatibility and design um provisions that were established in the MPUD

1:12:52zoning is actually being embedded into the comprehensive plan. For me, that was significant because it requires any revision to those to require a plan amendment. So it's a more secure way to ensure that that compatibility is maintained over time. Specifically, the compatibility commitments that were included to address those adjacencies included undisturbed or undeveloped uh and landscape buffers along the western and northwestern boundary and

1:13:23along I-75. Uh it increased size and opacity of screening through the berms along Lake Iola Road. It increased the setbacks that were required then uh in addition to those that were required along Lake Iola Road. There is no residential density permitted on this site. It is defined under the comprehensive plan that defines commercial uses as a commercial use. RV parks are a commercial use under the Pasco County Comprehensive

1:13:53Plan. And the compatibility commitments and standards are um are gonna be adopted as part of the comp plan itself.

1:14:03The second part of the comprehensive plan review that I did was to look at the North Pasco rural area policies. The North although I reviewed all of the policies in that goal that represents the Northeast Pasco rural area. There are four types of policies that have some potential to impact development review. Those include those

1:14:34that ensure that the timing and location for any increase in residential density is limited. So there's a lot of policies in the rural area plan that speak directly to increased residential density. The second is design direction. Although your comprehensive plan does not include any development regulations, it does provide direction to the land development code in the form of requiring the code to include those. And it can sometimes specify what those are.

1:15:04So there is some design direction in those policies. There are policies that restrict infrastructure in northeast Pasco in order to limit the number of lanes and create certain limitations for extending central water and central sewer. And then fourth, there were policies that limit changes in grade to protect the rolling topography of that area.

1:15:34Out of all of the policies that I reviewed relative to the rural area, there are only four that were tangentially applicable to this site. I say tangential because they relate most directly to residential, but they do provide design direction. And the applicant had included a response to those as a more restrictive way to address them. that and so I reviewed that in that case.

1:16:04Those four, it starts with policy FLU 2.1.5, which is the protection of existing topography. That policy is implemented through the Land Development Code, specifically section 604.5. that the code has two specific ways that it directs the protection of topography. One is it limits the grading on a piece of property so that you cannot change it by

1:16:35more than a certain percentage, and it restricts mining. This application addressed both of those provisions inasmuch as it restricted a grading within a slope of 10%. as required by the land development code and it provided a commitment that there would be no mining on this site. So it addressed both of the things that the code had included. The second policy was policy FLU 2.1.9 relative to rural lighting

1:17:05standards. That policy is implemented through the Land Development Code Section 604.5F. Uh that provision provides specific Um standards for uh lighting. And the application that I reviewed met that standard by also requiring the cutoff luminaries as required by the land development code.

1:17:34The third policy was policy 2.1.11, rural residential roads. That policy is actually implemented through the Land Development Code, section 604.4C1. There are several provisions to this in terms of how you protect rural residential roads that relates to cord or tree preservation of a certain size and larger. uh requiring that a

1:18:04buffer be preserved. Um it also uh s has certain standards uh in there for how that buffer is to be established. The application included commitments for each and every one of those meeting or exceeding that standard provided in the code in terms of tree preservation, introducing a landscape berm of a six-foot height with the four to one side slopes, and

1:18:34the average, the approximate 48 feet width. At the base and then the landscaping along those berms.

1:18:45That section also provides provisions relative to building setbacks from the adjacent Scenic Road corridor. and uh the application met that setback.

1:19:00In addition, it speaks to fences and walls along the rural residential roads. It prohibits certain types of fences and requires others. In the application, they also prohibited the chain link fences, the opaque walls, all the things that were required in the code. They also included in their commitment. Let's

1:19:27Policy FLU 2.1.13, provision of potable water and sanitary sewer. It is not implemented through a code. It's merely a policy that does not allow the extension of central services into the rural area. As such, this application did not propose to extend central services into the area, but rather would provide an on-site package plant system. And well.

1:19:57Why was Tommy that sure?

1:19:59Uh the second area that was to be reviewed was natural resources. The plan calls out the specific natural resources that are to be evaluated, wellhead, surface and groundwater, wetlands, critical linkages, habitats, and historic and archaeological sites. The application did not identify any feature, uh, cultural feature that would be impacted by the development. and it included commitments to address uh the protection of other environmental features in this

1:20:29manner. As it related to gopher tortoise, 100% of the gopher tortoise survey conducted according to the particular Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission guidelines. There was restriction to construction activities within the wetland up and buffer as depicted on the construction plans. The copy of the Water Management District Environmental Resource Permit will be sent to the Planning and

1:20:59Development Department when it's completed. And if during construction any evidence of any uh state or federal protected plant or animal species is discovered, all work in that area shall come to an immediate stop until the permits have been obtained.

1:21:17The third area was related to general public facilities that included water and sewer and stormwater. As said, the water will be provided by private well and the wastewater will be provided by the package plant. The applicant has proposed specific conditions to comply with the stormwater requirements of Pasco County.

1:21:41And finally transportation. Uh A transportation analysis was conducted. Barbara went through that specifically with you. There's uh it will operate within the adopted level of service with the background traffic and the addition of the project traffic. And uh they have proposed a 315-foot northbound right turn lane and 415-foot southbound turn lane, left turn lane on Lake Iola Road, uh, even though that was not required by

1:22:11the warrants uh simply because of the um the size of the RVs that would be pulling in there, they wanted to make sure that there was clearance.

1:22:22That concludes my presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have now or later.

1:22:28Board members, any questions? Good. No, good. Good report. Thank you.

1:22:33Um, Ms. Wellhide, I believe the folks that are on this list are probably other members of your team. Uh Steve, uh Henry. Um

1:22:47Son Ray M in

1:22:49So Commissioner, that um concludes our presentation. We have our members here for rebuttal depending on what the questions might be. But uh if you want to open up for public hearing, that'll be fine.

1:23:01Well, I just wanted to make sure these that were signed up on this list were part of your team and not others wanting to speak, correct?

1:23:07Uh yes. Yeah. So I heard Steve Henry.

1:23:10Brian Nolan. Yes. And Joe Shimo. Joe Simeno.

1:23:15Simino, yes. They're here.

1:23:17All right.

1:23:19Okay, at this time uh we will go to public comment and we have a list.

1:23:23Yes, we do. Uh John Russell.

1:23:29Good afternoon. John Russell, [address removed]. Um I am duly sworn.

1:23:39Thank you, Mr.

1:23:43Uh I am uh I've been a resident of Pasco County. Uh for More than twenty years. Um I'm a healthcare professional. I provide care to people who reside in uh various RV parks as part of my clientele. And I can tell you without uh question, um I am well acquainted with that the area in question, And

1:24:15An R V park Well which I'm very familiar. Zephyrhills has loads of 'em. Uh This is no place to put in an R V park. For multiple multiple reasons. Uh I'll give a a first one for uh consideration. Oh, about a month, month and a maybe five weeks ago, within a mile of the proposed project, I personally saw a

1:24:45Florida Panther. Okay. And I'm willing to swear on that. Couldn't take a picture because it ran across the street in front of me. Uh, but it without question was a Florida Panther. Um Points to consider. How does this project benefit current residents and wildlife? Does it restrict the free movement of wildlife? I think there's no question about that. um that it it does not benefit the

1:25:15people who live there. When you start uh you know pouring concrete, uh putting in pads, uh to mount uh some 40-foot-long RVs. Um it's an eyesore. And when we talk about lighting. Well, lighting, they're gonna have a fifteen thousand square foot bandshell or something as part of this pr uh project. Uh I think I get more than um more than a m more than one minute,

1:25:46correct? Right? Uh you have a minute left. What's that? I have a minute left, okay. Um the references for R V resorts, none of which were in Pasco County. Uh, the property tax revenue from this project versus maintaining one and five-acre uh lots. Um uh is insubstantial compared to if we just left it at the same zoning. Um This is really a degradation or

1:26:16uh desecration of a very scenic area. Um I would like to I'd like to know how we define topography. And uh it's quite frankly, these uh these presentations that were provided by the people. uh uh representing the developer. They were laughable at best. John Russell have my MBA. I am a well-educated person who cares about the quality of Pasco County.

1:26:46And this is not a quality development. But thank you very much. Okay, next. I forgot to mention Uh insiders working on behalf of the insiders and developers. I've watched it for 20 years.

1:27:00Thank you very much.

1:27:02Sasha Sasha, Julia.

1:27:04If you g if you guys do that, we have three. Bayliff's here and we're gonna escort you out because that's that's not Coaster. Yeah.

1:27:14Mm.

1:27:15Uh

1:27:16name and address for

1:27:17the record,

1:27:17please. I'm Julia Sasha Bartunik. I live at [address removed]. That's all one word, [address removed], and I'm affiliate with the Sierra Club Pasco Conservation Committee. I'd like to say that green spaces are Pasco County's most valuable resources. I'm speaking against this development in this northeast

1:27:47rural area that needs to remain protected. And my opposition to this takes precedence over all the other following comments that I will make.

1:27:59And uh I apologize for interrupting. Do you acknowledge that you were sworn?

1:28:03I am sworn. Thank you, sir. Mr.

1:28:06Clark,

1:28:07there's a level here. Um I'd like to reinforce that having a traffic corridor anywhere does not necessitate high density levels behind it. You ca around it. You can have a scenic corridor around high Traffic corridors. In fact, the county has done that already, for example, at the Starkey Ranch. How wonderful if we could preserve upon entry to Pasco County this wonderful view of God-given

1:28:37green rolling hills. The visitors and new residents to Pasco could feel uplifted upon entry. These green spaces help mental health. They help productivity in both school, students, and workplaces. They help mental health, they help productivity, and they also reduce mental illness, and they also prevent suicide. I'd also like to say that there were several notes

1:29:07that were not mentioned that are in our comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan does encourage more use of native species and all developments. Also, um in our comprehensive plan, it talks about renewable saving our resources so that we should also have in any developments, and hopefully this development will not go in that area. Um, I'm not against the specific development, but definitely in that area. But

1:29:37hopefully all our developments can have um solar, EV, charging. Stations, walkable communities. And also, I really love this idea that I heard at um another commission meeting of having bikeable communities inter walking throughout Pasco County. Pasco County could become noted because people come here because we have green spaces left, not just to make money, they come here for peace of mind. And we also need

1:30:07dark sky lighting in developments such as this. And I would love to see Pasco County becoming like the 12th most bikeable county in the United States. That was something to be really proud of. And we've already made strides with that in some of the trails that we've developed. Thank you for letting me share. Thank you for the time.

1:30:29Thank you. Next we have

1:30:33Lisa Moretti?

1:30:35Did we skip this question?

1:30:37Uh that was for a different item.

1:30:39Oh, okay. And uh Lisa has requested extra time and has five minutes.

1:30:43Thank you.

1:30:44Um

1:30:45I have a written statement that I'd like to submit into the record, Madam Chairman. I have a copy for each commissioner.

1:30:50All in favor? Aye. Aye.

1:30:59Is she representing a group? Oh wait, Madam Chair?

1:31:03Yeah.

1:31:03I met with the residents, I also met with the developer with the applicant.

1:31:06Uh same.

1:31:09Also I had an ex parte form for Commissioner Fitzgerald. Fitzpatrick, I'm sorry.

1:31:16Mm-hmm.

1:31:30Go ahead. You don't have to wait for this.

1:31:33Okay. My name is Lisa Moretti. I reside at [address removed]. Uh [address removed]. And uh I am sworn. So uh I'm gonna speak very fast because I obviously I gave you quite a packet. I'm going to just try to summarize things for you in three m in the five minutes that I have. I further want to make sure that my set my comments are in the public record in the event that we need to pursue legal action against the county. So the county has invested a

1:32:03significant amount of taxpayer monies on studies from Glading Jackson, the Urban Land Institute, and the time and services of our own planning department. Those plans have helped guide the country and create county in creating a fiscal plan. as well as its land use plans. On january sixth of twenty twenty two, Ms. Marina was paid by Ms Wilhite on behalf of the developer to testify to the Planning Commission that the RB Park fits in the natural rur in the rural sorry, the rural plan perfectly and that you should disregard the urban density prohibitions in the rural area protections

1:32:33because I-75 travels next to the property where the proposed development is to be. She testified that because of the traffic volumes on the road abutting the property, you should allow high density development. That's not residential and not commercial. to move forward, especially this is especially distressing considering that Ms. Marino was the one that helped craft the Northeast Rural Plan, and that was not mentioned in 2006. So that didn't sound quite right to me. So I approached various national agencies to find out what were

1:33:04best practices in planning. I found out that a traffic corridor does not have to dictate a high density surrounding area and that a scenic corridor can be an alternative. In fact, the county has done precisely this. Then I looked into transit-oriented development, T O D, and concentrating density at interchanges, which other people have spoken about today. The RB park does not qualify for this type of need because it is considerably distant from the interchange. It's 1.3 miles. And you have no interconnected roadway system, you have no uh services,

1:33:34multi multiple services that you'll be supplying out of the uh interchange area to the RV park. So um this is just a move to put density next to the interstate just because of density. So Um With regard to the Urban Land Institute's recommendations, we also heard a little bit about this earlier. You have urban service areas, urban transition service areas in order to support urban spa. This is important because in 2013 you used those recommendations to craft the fiscal and land use plans of the county.

1:34:05At that time, the Urban Land Institute said you were already oversaturated for absorption based on what your development prognosis was at that point and that you would encounter a $14 billion shortfall. So asking for just in providing the mandated services of that infrastructure. So We already know that growth doesn't pay for itself, and I can cite you volumes of studies about that, but you don't need it. The Northeast Rural Area serves a purpose beyond community protection. It is your fail-safe. by not having

1:34:35to provide services and infrastructure into the rural area, you are balancing your budget. And so I would argue that you're legally obligated not to change the urban transition service area and not to move urban into the northwest rural area. Or I'm sorry, the northeast rural area. Um, let's see. Some of the best planning experts in the country created a plan for you, gave you dire warnings about exactly what Ms. Murino, the developer, and Ms. Will Hyde are advocating for you to do. If you

1:35:05are not going to follow those recommendations, why do we have a comprehensive plan? Why spend our money on studies, reports, and documents? Why put us at further fiscal risk and put the county itself at legal and fiscal exposure when if you were to just follow the long-range plan and preserve the rural area, you're doing exactly the job of protecting the county. Ms. Wilhite has a responsibility to the developer that pays her. Marino has a responsibility to whoever's paying her fees at this point. V Care consultants and Sanjay Min have no ties to this community,

1:35:36unlike our local developers. He'll be out of the picture soon enough when he flips this property, just like he did in Sarasota. And he moves on to the next one of the Oakley properties he's purchased. He has no responsibility to the properties in this area and he is not a steward of the land. None of these people have a right to have an increase in zoning or density or a massive comprehensive plan change. It is a request that you can say no to if you have the integrity to do so. In 2019, I asked Mr. Remin to sit down with the community and create a project that was more aligned with the vision

1:36:06of the community. He offered to do my landscaping in return for my support. I chose not to betray my neighbors for a few shrubs. This project could be developed with a rural appeal, a barn, turning half of the spaces into horse trailer pads, putting in a pasture instead of a water feature. You could lower the density to an acceptable level, maintain the rural character, create a portal to Pasco County that was inviting and rural rather than a hillside covered with RVs and concrete. But Mr. Amin couldn't be bothered to

1:36:36seek out our input. He's only going to do what he wants to do to us, and he says, sorry, it's going to be so painful for you.

1:36:45Uh Um is that three minutes or five the five minutes? That was my five. That's what? Oh that's fine. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, uh who do we have? No, you cannot. Hey, you ladies know that. Okay. You cannot do that here. Thank you.

1:37:03Richard Riley.

1:37:15I'd like to submit to the record on Blanc. Oh so I didn't Richard.

1:37:21Mr. Riley is.

1:37:22I

1:37:22have

1:37:22been sworn. No, you don't have to be sworn into this. I am Richard Riley, R-I-L-E-Y, [address removed]. We got a motion and a second. We have a motion and a second.

1:37:36We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye.

1:37:42And don't wait for her to pass those out. You go go ahead. You can go ahead and start. I don't want you to use up your time.

1:37:49Greetings. Thank you for this opportunity to tell you how to do your job in reference to the proposed RV park in Northeast Royal. Protect protected northeast. Pasco County. I live in [address removed]. I'm a member of the Northeast Pasco on Uh concerns citizens and I want to protect our part of the county. Commissioner Moore, you've been here since 19 uh since 2014, and I'm sorry to hear that you feel you have to move on to another life. I've appreciated your open, humorous, sharing

1:38:19personality and giving nature. I am pleased that some of your legacy was that you slowed the growth and the mass construction of townhouses and apartments in your district that makes Pasco a bedroom community of Tampa Bay. Commissioner Fitzpatrick, you're new and have a good future. And if we're able to work with you in controlling growth like you appear to be doing. Madam Chair Starkey, since nineteen since twenty twenty-one, I thank you for your active support of trails, bikes, and pedestrian needs and opportunities for the entire county.

1:38:49Your support environmental concerns are make you a green woman. Commissioner Mariano, you've been here forever.

1:39:01Specifically, you've been a supporter since uh 2004 and an advisor to our membership many times. Whenever we get lost in the bureaucracy, you have helped. Commissioner Oakley, since twenty ten, you're a District One Commissioner. Our rural protected area is completely in your area, and you are vocal in your support of the well-being of your district. Hudd. Acting Clerk, Mr. Samples, thank you for your organization's countywide support. To us you document, record, publicize,

1:39:31and advertise the activities of this body. And you'll hold a wonderful uh group wedding on the court house steps next Monday. Attorney Steinsteiner, you protect the commission and the uh county from lawsuits by making sure that the la actions here are legal. And County Manager Miles, your duties are extensive in keeping this county running and together. Wow, I'm going right up. And it runs into the details that are massive and occlusive. You had the duty to implement everything that these board members

1:40:01do. Thank you for the first two minutes of my Rural Protection Agency. I'm not gonna talk about Details, I want to appeal to your integrity, your dignity, your uh s sense of fair play. You don't have to approve every growth in here just because you they want it. You have to acknowledge zoning, of course. But this is a change. This is a major change. This is changing it from on. Uh something

1:40:32like uh thirteen people to five hundred and fifty people in one uh swoop. And

1:40:42No I'm running out of time and so on. That that is that is a summary. Still have a minute? I'm sorry? You still have a minute? No, that but this thing here says zero. Oh it says zero. Well there you are. Zero.

1:40:55Thank

1:40:55you very much. Thank you. All right,

1:40:57where are

1:40:57we? Joanne Hopper.

1:41:01Joanne Hopper.

1:41:08Uh uh is there any other

1:41:14All right, come on up.

1:41:15Would it be John?

1:41:19Well let's see who signed up first. So

1:41:23Yeah.

1:41:23That's okay. We'll let every everyone who wants to speak and speak, but we're just going by our list.

1:41:32Are we so is it one second?

1:41:36My is Dot Wood and who I remember the most is Jack.

1:41:39Wait, wait, wait. Uh address for the record, please.

1:41:42[address removed]. Yeah. Well when we did the comprehensive plan.

1:41:51The RB park was there, and we grandfathered it in. And when we did that, we said, no more, just what was there. Because we did not want Lake Iola polluted. Like a lot of other lakes in Pasco County from the sewer systems. And you will all remember that. Am I wrong? And that's all I got to say.

1:42:18Good afternoon. Carol Cruz, [address removed]. Okay, I listened to the ladies and gentlemen talk about the what they want to add to it. And from what I'm gathering, it's 131 acres. And 50% of it is open space. So 50% from 132 acres would be 66 acres. Now you have to put your buffers in your roads. I'm giving them 16 acres to do that. So that means you have 50 acres left. Left on

1:42:48this RV park where you're gonna put 550 RV park. That is, according to the state, when you study it, you have a minimum of five per acre on a normal average RV park, or you have up to maximum nine. So if I studied this and looked at this right, that means they're asking for nine RBs. That's just the maximum of what most RB parks are. And this is the rural area.

1:43:20So come on guys. There's no way that you any of you here can say, oh, that's fine. The people that live in the rural area want to live in the rural area. The people that want to live in the city, they can live in the city. We don't choose to live in the city. We choose to live in the rural area. So give us, we the people, what we want. Thank you.

1:43:43Okay, uh is there anyone else here that would wish to speak to this? You can come up now. Name and address. And you don't have to be sworn.

1:43:52Hi, my name is uh JP Lyons, Jimmy Lyons. I live on [address removed], and I'm right in the middle of this district of the Northeast Rural Protection Community. And I moved here in '96. I moved up from Tampa. And I love this area because it was so much like Mobile. The roll- that's my hometown, the Rolling Hills, the beautiful oaks. They're being assaulted. And this place is trying it feels like it's being turned into New Port Richey or Brandy. And we have the most beautiful land. here ever and that area is right in the middle of it. And uh The orange grove, I think the greening has affected the orange

1:44:23grove, the grove owners. They want to get their developments because they can't grow oranges. They don't want to redo it. So there's been a major change in a lot of the development. And across the street from me, a gentleman just purchased a $1.5 million home. $1.5 million, okay? And you I'm sorry, Commissioner. I just was trying to remember. $1.5 million home. And he doesn't have any clue about this. And people, you know, people love this area. And I just don't want to do anything accusatory. I appreciate you having me here to be able to talk to you respectfully

1:44:53about these problems. But we got no input in these meetings. We were told what was gonna happen when we went to travel, when we went to uh Lake Jovita. We were told, and that was no input that worked through committees, but we were basically told in a sense, this is what's gonna happen. And we had r I had no input, but what we wanna know, I've got I don't wanna be accusatory, because that's not right. That's not respectful to this group, but we really wanna know. Is because I know all about the free landscaping through this developer in the neighborhood to get people to go ahead with it. But how did this happen? How

1:45:24did we get this gentleman that came in and I've met him? He's a nice man, trying to do the development. How did he get here? Was he recruited by a county employee? Was he pushed by a county employee to put that development there? Why is he here? Because I've never heard of him. And like most of these people, they're like bagger, not this person you know individually, but they're like Civil War carpet baggers. They come down here, they put their scat everywhere, and they split. And what they're doing is they're turning this community into nothing more than people that aren't from here. And any town that's

1:45:54vital has to have a nucleus of local people to care. If you just have a community of people from everywhere, it destroys the fabric. You need that mix. Okay, so I look at that and we want to know that the answer to that question, and we want to know uh With V Care, we know all about the the development, but the one other thing I want to find out is, and we've heard this, is that there's a section of land across the road. If they get this zoning change, is this being used as a pretext to change the zoning on that 240

1:46:25acres and envelop that area with intense development? And we've also heard, and we want to know this, we've even heard the developers on the V Care, not V Care. But yeah, not V Care, but Hilltop Views that purchase that land. They specialize in Section 8 housing. Now I'm all for Section 8. It's great. But do we want Section 8 housing in areas where we don't have transportation? Is that what we want in this community? We're going to become just a rolling hill of nothing but development. And then what happens is people either move out of the county or they move to the edge of the edge of the county where there's no

1:46:55there's no traffic. So we need answers to this. We need to know the chronology of how this happened. We've been kept in the dark completely about this thing. And no offense to him. And thank you very much.

1:47:06Okay, um is there s anyone else who uh wishes to speak? Okay, uh yeah. Um is there anyone else behind this speaker? Why don't you go ahead and line up and be um be ready? And do we have anyone that's on online to speak to this? Okay. So if you're not in line, then you can't speak because we're gonna cut it off with the last person that gets in line.

1:47:30Uh I can't remember the name. I hey I pitched that to the administration.

1:47:35How do you

1:47:38I don't know the name of it. Okay, go ahead.

1:47:41Hi, Nancy Hayswood, [address removed], I've been sworn. Uh the Rural Area Plans meeting started in 2005. There were over a hundred participants, and perhaps we have a couple other citizens in the room that were at these rural area plan meetings, could you please stand up? You wanna wave your hand, Richard? So we do have a few we know the intent of the Northeaster area plan.

1:48:13The citizens that participated in those meetings would never have agreed to a rural area plan that uses seventy-five to insert intensities into the rural area, or had we known that the county would continually take large parcels out of our rural area plan, which you all have done over time. Part of the agreement with Pasco is letting VOPH develop at 40,000 units, and that area seems to be developing as expected. Now the county seems to be changing the rules and once

1:48:43the citizens That the assistants agreed to, and the rural area is being cut out. Now, this property has ag on the north side, Nag on the west side, ag on the south side, and 75. How can the uh applicant Just use a fourth of the area around it to pull in these intensities.

1:49:10That's the only place that can justify the use of these. So you've got three fourths of that that's all AG and you're gonna pull this in, I think that could be urban sprawl without the residents. This property has now I'm talking about consistency consistency and capacity Cup. How do you pronounce it?

1:49:34Okay, Captain. Capacity? No. Keep yes, thank you. Anyways, this place has spash splash pads, pools, pickleball courts, tennis court, clubhouse, lodge, five hundred and fifty RVs of course. How is this compatible with the rural a neighbors and wildlife habitat? Turkey, bobcat, gophers, foxes, horses, cows and more. And it's private and enclosed.

1:50:03This is a rural community that the wildlife has coexisted with and when this comes it won't. More consistenty consistency and hop say it again? Compatibility. Compatibility. Few sheds are protected in the Northeast Raw area. And this is something that the applicant didn't go over. You're gonna drive along 75 and you enter Pasco County just past the Pasco County sign, and

1:50:33you're gonna see on a hill on your right a bunch of RVs. I don't care how much buffering you put in there. It's too low. You look up that hill. So maybe we want to change this. Welcome to Pasco, the land of the RV park. Bikes. Biker safety, a real bike path would be much safer than those shoulders. Uh RVs and bikers don't mix. It would be wonderful if

1:51:03you made this into a stronger condition. Barbara Wilhite and Frances Chandler were at our first planning meetings and um they s kind of switched hats and now they get pay paid by land developers. They did help right through rural area plan, but they didn't do a good job. In fact, they failed. Or we wouldn't be here. This does not fit in the rural area and it's just another one of the failures in the rural area. Thank

1:51:31y'all. Appreciate it. Uh next please. Oh oh what are you doing?

1:51:43I've got them for that was candy. Just so y'all know. Wasn't a private note.

1:51:50Okay. Hi,

1:51:50I'm Kelly Smith. My address is [address removed] in [address removed]. I have been sworn. And if you could possibly put up the site plan of the prop of the proposed development, that would be great. So that per the LDC, the intent of the Northeast Rural Protected Overlay is to protect the character of the rural landscape, preserve scenic views and vistas, and ensure that on-site development is compatible with the character of the surrounding area.

1:52:22Rural is defined as relating to or characteristic of the countryside rather than the town. The proposed RV resort certainly looks more like a town than the countryside to me. The proposed RV resort is the first thing you'll see when entering the Northeast Rural Protected Overlay from I seventy five, and it certainly won't be considered scenic. In my opinion, and I think as shown today through others' conversations, the proposed development is simply too intense. Now there seems

1:52:52to be a perception that the um community members are really only in Concerned about the view. um and that you know what they'll be able to see from the roadway, that's not it. We don't care about what you can see. We care about the impact of what that development is going to have on our community. The extra traffic, the extra need for services, the extra everything that's not appropriate in that area.

1:53:21I'd like to ask for the record how this non-residential PUD can be considered by the board today, given the lack of non-residential standards in the comprehensive plan and the land development code for the Northeast Rural Protected Overlay. In creating the overlay, the county commissioners at the time gave large landowners the village of Pasadena Hills and the residents of the rural pro residents of the rural protected overlay substandard land use regulations that apparently can't hold up to the greed of developers. I ask you

1:53:51to do better. Thank you.

1:53:55Thank you. Next.

1:53:58Hi, I'm Jim Weigan. Last name is W-E-I-G-A-N-D. I live at [address removed]. And I hadn't planned on talking, so I have not been sworn in. So you don't

1:54:12have to be

1:54:13sworn

1:54:13in.

1:54:13Don't need to? Great. Uh I have a different concern than I think everyone else that's talked here today. I have a safety concern. Uh Lake Iola and Blanton Road intersection. is blind for a long distance in both directions. I would really encourage you that if you pass this, that you look at doing something about that intersection. Because a Thirty five foot RV with a truck. Trying to turn left onto uh Lake Iowa

1:54:44Road. is gonna block that intersection. It does now. I've seen Very close to accidents already there. And if we have another five hundred and fifty lots. In that area, I really would encourage you to do something about that before somebody gets killed. So thank you.

1:55:02Thank you. Written that in.

1:55:07All right, this is our last speaker.

1:55:11Okay.

1:55:14My name is Susan Meinhart. I live at [address removed]. I am finishing Lisa's comments because she ran out of time. I'm going to reiterate that Mr. Ahmed. couldn't be bothered to seek our input. He's going to do what he wants to do to us, and he's sorry it will be so painful. This RV

1:55:45park will cost Pasco County money. It will burden the residents financially, and there will be limited return value to the community. Even developers say this project will boost tourism for Wesley Chapel, Mr. Ahmed. Well, we aren't Wesley Chapel. We are a rural area. We are the taxpayers, and we deserve to be represented by

1:56:15you, the people that we elected.

1:56:21We deserve you to follow the comprehensive plan and the Urban Land Institute recommendations that we as taxpayers paid for. The rural area legally needs to be protected. Uh

1:56:41Will. You allow. the county to court Синіфант фенчо. and potential legal action.

1:56:56Please notice that not one person has stood up to agree with this project except for the people who have been paid to work with the development of it. And I'm also a Unfortunate um

1:57:17I inherited the part of the solar issue because I live on [address removed]. And I have I'm right straight across from the 600 the 100 acres that was purchased by from the Jameses and the and the Jordans, and I didn't want that project to come to fruition because It should have been ranches, it should have been horse farms, it should have been something

1:57:48agriculture, not something that is an electrical. Entity.

1:57:56I pray that you As elected officials will vote. and and pr and protect what we have paid you to protect for us. Thank you.

1:58:08Okay, um that's the end of public comment and where's Barbara? Okay, you have uh how much time? Three minutes for rebuttal.

1:58:22I'm just gonna have uh Frances Chandler Marino speak to you. Um obviously the author of the plan and she can speak to the Northeast Pasco, which is most of the things you heard, other than a lot of derogatory things, um, which aren't true. But Frances Chandler.

1:58:40All right, thank you, uh Barbara. Frances Chandler Marino. Uh I will speak fast, um, particularly because I um Relative to the rural area plan, I just want to let everyone know and remember what we were trying to accomplish when that was being constructed. And that is I had one immediate job. And my job was to stop the freight train. And the freight train at that time was low density residential

1:59:10development. When you're stopping a freight train, you can do one thing and one thing only. But I don't think that I left the residents stranded or this board. Because, in addition to that, the policies of Northeast Pasco include a specific policy, 2.1.4, that required the county. To do a vision plan for Northeast Pasco to handle all these comprehensive issues. So there's never an intention that this plan would

1:59:41always be the plan in place and that it wouldn't evolve over time. And that policy 2.1.4 specifies all of the details of how you move forward. Guys, hang on

1:59:55one second.

1:59:58Yeah, so Yeah. If you want to talk you can go right outside that door. All right, John. Okay, no more comments from over there. Okay. It's very disruptive. and uh pretend you have an extra minute oh sorry sorry

2:00:13So particularly it laid out the planning process that the county needed to um to go into in order to address this for a 50 year period. I'll point out too that when this plan was adopted, it was adopted with a horizon of now. You have you you've reached the end of your horizon. So your plan does need to be extended because right now you're not planning for 20 years or 30 years or 50 years. Your plan is only meeting

2:00:43the needs of today. So I guess that if there's something that I could offer you, I think that that's that's it. It's it's um because I do feel a lot of pride of authorship with the Northeast Pasco Rural Plan and with those citizens. And I feel like we did a good job for them, but it wasn't complete. And when I did this assessment, I only review what's in the plan today, not making policy that's Your job. But right now, the policies as they're constructed, this

2:01:14application is consistent. If you want a different result, you need different policies.

2:01:20I thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um board members, do we have questions of the applicant?

2:01:26I I have one.

2:01:27I made a couple

2:01:28if you don't mind.

2:01:28I'll make some notes.

2:01:29I don't know, Ms. Woolhay? So can we have a map of the project? We have a printout. But obviously I can't just hold this up and show everybody. Yeah,

2:01:40we

2:01:40can

2:01:41if we don't mind pulling it up.

2:01:45Actually, could we put up the um I I don't know if this is a Google Earth or what do I have here?

2:01:54I don't know. Almost like a Google Earth with a with the um Project in between.

2:02:02It would I thought it would be it would be this right here.

2:02:06Yeah, I'm trying to get to the

2:02:08Okay, so make sure I'll set this.

2:02:09Might be fighting each other here. Let me see which one you're talking about.

2:02:13Oh okay.

2:02:14It's right there. There you go.

2:02:16Right there. Okay. We didn't zoom in. Because I'm I'm okay. So I I'm just curious. So there's a

2:02:26If I look at Lake Is that Lake Ida? Lake Ida? Iola. Iola. Can't remember my own. There, now it's okay, there we go, that's better. Our screen was distorted, so now we can see. Lake Iola Road. and across the street I see a home Directly across the street. I don't did that person speak? The person that has the home across

2:02:46the

2:02:47room.

2:02:48No. I don't think anybody's living in that home.

2:02:51Okay, if you go down and we go up to the top of the screen, I see another home. Is that uh That's

2:02:56a barn?

2:02:57That's a barn. I see it's a home. And a home to the

2:02:59north of it.

2:03:00Okay. What about the home? If you look at the project with a small r with a retention pond and we look to the west, there's a home a little bit northwest. I I got f I'm asked I gotta ask the is that person here?

2:03:16No.

2:03:16I mean it's I'm just asking the audience. Okay.

2:03:25Is there anybody that I I can see any of the homes here on the screen that abut the project actually in in the room? 'Cause I was gonna ask a couple of questions. Nobody here. Can I speak to that? No, you can't speak from the audience. It's the chair. Yeah. I was just asking if anybody was here, so Okay. You can't you gotta stop talking for the audience. You're gonna go out.

2:03:51Okay, I'm sorry. That's that's We tried. We tried.

2:03:59All right. Okay. Go ahead, Barbara. So it sounds like we don't have any adjacent owners here.

2:04:06Okay. So my next question is, okay, we talked about the environment. We look at the lake and and and I see a retention pond there. Tell us again what considerations, if any, have been given to any um negative runoff or that could have a negative effect on the lake.

2:04:21Let me have Joe Summano come up and

2:04:32Good afternoon, Commissioner. Uh Joe Simeneau, WRA Engineering. 4260 West Linebaugh Avenue, 33624, I have been sworn. Uh Commissioner Moore, um we are draining into Moody Lake, which discharges the Middle Lake, which ultimately makes its way down the Hancock Lake. It's a closed basin system, which means we're going to be held to the strictest strictest standards for discharge rate. Um, so we'll be held to closed basin criteria. We'll have to match pre-post hundred year storm

2:05:02conditions. So that takes care of the attenuation and the flood control. Water quality would be um In accordance with EPA standards, which have been delegated to state standards, which both the Water Management District and Pasco and Pasco County Adhere to, will be held to water quality treatment standards. Uh we'll need

2:05:21a SWIFT MUD permit of some type.

2:05:23Absolutely. We'll get a SWIFT MUD permit. Yes.

2:05:25Well I just want to make sure that's why I'm asking the the applicant here.

2:05:28And and not to go too deep down the rabbit hole with the technicalities, but because it's a closed basin and we're required to hold back so much volume. the amount of water quality treatment will be multiple times the norm because we're actually holding back so much water that we'll only really get to the lake through groundwater percolation versus surface water discharge.

2:05:47So was somebody that's a little bit more than a little bit. Does spend a lot of time.

2:05:53Carolyn Dodd. We've we sat we sat before and I think Richard as well. We had meetings in the past Even a few years uh back, we talked about the possibility of like an equestrian center or something like that, which obviously would be a good fit. But at the same time, I just want to remind you guys, you know, when we talked about this that day is my daughters, I have two daughters that ride horses and we have a motor home. So we travel from Equestrian Center, Equestrian Center. We also go to numerous state and national parks. We've

2:06:24been as far north on the, you know, as northern mid-northern Ohio, for example, when state actually had a county park that had a that actually had an RV park in a lake and a very big lake that was maintained by by the uh county itself. Um What? But when I think about it, when we go to these equestrian centers They have. numerous R V sites though too. I mean a massive, a massive amount of RC RV

2:06:54sites at a very large majority of the ones we go to. There's some smaller ones that may only have, you know, like 15 or 20 or 30 spots, you know, kind of the the um smaller facilities that really aren't the upper echelon of the equestrian world, but they do have those. And I've been to a number of again, state parks, you know, Smokey Mountain National Park, um, you know, Everglades and things like that, and there's RV parks within 'em. So I listen, I and I get we've had great meetings and and I adore you guys and stuff. I

2:07:25this one right here though, I I th I I honestly kind of thought it would be almost more welcome for the area. And I say that because the last thing I'd want to see is that those high density homes there on the forty foot and fifty foot lots are God forbid an a giant apartment complex that sits there as well. I mean, sorry, that's just my mindset, you know. Um Yeah, I I I honestly thought and I appreciate everybody's uh comments and and your testimony and consent and and everything you've considered and the work you

2:07:55put into it. I honestly just thought, you know, this would be more w of a welcome thing. You know, considering some of the past conversations we had, especially when it comes to possibly having equestrian center or something like that, because you look at the amount of horse trailers that would be going back and forth on a daily basis. Cause these shows nowadays, lots of times they'll start on a Tuesday or Wednesday and they'll start training like on Monday. It's almost a seven a week day-a-week thing. So you got multiple hundreds and hundreds of horse trailers possibly going back and forth. Plus, you have your motor home. homes and travel trailers

2:08:25and things like that. Again, I appreciate everything you guys have said. I just you know, I mean I I just think this is so much better than the possibility of a very condensed single family home or possibly multifamily home project. But uh but that's um you know that's my opinion. So

2:08:47Um may I uh while you're still up there and I think this I think this might be kind of a along the line of you were asking. So what I think Lisa in her notes, I took notes on things everyone said, wastewater plant. And um is that you? Is that someone else? 'Cause that's kinda to the water quality.

2:09:12Why does it why is someone saying they don't think it's allowed here?

2:09:14I don't know, but it's very important for these projects to have that facility on site versus having to worry about the the county resources to treat that. But

2:09:24And how does the water quality and the drainage and the sewer from the water, the wastewater, how does it flow? And how does the septic work? Since there's no septic, how does the how do the wells work? And the soil quality. Yeah.

2:09:41Sure. Uh. Let me give you the 40,000 foot view. And if there's still questions, the people that actually design the plants can take you way deep down the rabbit hole on how it works. Um but I think one of the things we learned at the last time I was standing in this podium was there was a misconception that there was like a septic drain field that was being installed. That is not the case. Any sewage that comes out of these uh RVs will be a direct connection. Into a sewer connection, just like a residential home that takes it

2:10:11through a gravity sewer to a water treatment plant on the site. Unlike a septic drain field that just gets held and distributed into the ground and we hope the ground does its magic. It actually gets treated and these guys if you would like will take you into the into the deep technicalities of how much it will be treated, but it will be treated to secondary treatment standards and then distributed back underground through infiltration basins throughout the site. There's about eight acres of infiltration around the site. But

2:10:41at that point, it is not sewage. It is it is effluent that's coming from a wastewater treatment plant that has been treated to secondary standards that these guys would be more than happy to tell you about. Madam Chair, just can I continue on with that? Yeah.

2:10:56Yeah, that's very important. Again, somebody that's gone to a number of RB parks throughout the the nation, you can tell sometimes the ones that don't have those facilities because it's sometimes it's not a pleasant experience if you're staying there. So it is very it is very important. Um how how do we gonna how do we see this written into the plans? Where's our where's the guarantee that this this water treatment plant will be done as part of the project? Or facility, I guess you could sell it, call it.

2:11:26So they have obviously st state standards they have to apply comply with, but we're just a transmittal of comp plan.

2:11:31I know.

2:11:32If there's things that you want to make sure we Yeah, if you things the MPD we have two months until it comes back. If there's things you wanna make sure that we right into the M PUD we can do that.

2:11:40Yeah, but I would assume that's something you probably would be Willing to do?

2:11:44Of

2:11:44course. Right. Okay. Because it is important because again, there are concerns, you know, you have environmental concerns about the lake and surrounding waters and the soil in the

2:11:52They also have a a potable uh they'll have a well on the property they'll make into a public well system, water system and they will use water directly off that property.

2:12:02Mm Madam Clerk one more thing. If you maybe you or Mr. Steisler can also explain um this hearing compared to the hearing that would be coming up.

2:12:11What should be asked today by us can what should should be asked during the next public hearing?

2:12:18So Normally I Admonish you all that it's a comp plan hearing and you can't go into details except that this one is a PD comp plan hearing. And they're a little different because they have to about it envisions a subsequent plan. So anything that you would like to see in a sub-area policy in your comprehensive plan, you can ask about.

2:12:43Okay, I have some questions.

2:12:45And then but knowing that this is also an MPUD, so you can also Deal with it at that at that level as well. But this isn't your traditional, oh, it's res 16 and it's gonna be an apartment complex kind of discussion because it's because it is a PD. I um

2:13:10Commissioner Mariano it used to be when we had these hearings like this, we'd have them both back to back. We put everything together on it.

2:13:17Well you can't you can't do the zoning until you do the adoption of your comprehensive plan amendment. My guess is Ms. Will Hight will have plan to have her adoption hearing of the of the ordinance adoption of the Comp Plan Category. And the M P Back to back. Then.

2:13:39Right. But this is

2:13:40transmittal.

2:13:41So uh and and I'm but I'm glad you bring it up. This is the time to ask all the questions we want. Um I think the paper we give has got a lot of good questions. So I think this is the time to ask all the questions up front right now.

2:13:52Well

2:13:53I'll

2:13:53I'll see if you do you have any questions? Uh uh but I'll I'll wait,

2:13:56go ahead.

2:13:56Uh okay, so I I have a little list. Um So uh we had a question about the topography. Are you changing the Are you doing changes to the topography?

2:14:13Uh one of the biggest reasons we went from 675 to 550 uh was because of the topography. This site is about the hilliest site you can do civil engineering on in the area. Um so that's why we have a road that's about a mile with nothing on it. That's to help transition through that topography. So it's not going to be a clear cut of the site, turn it into a big flat site. It's going to be working with the topography stepping down into these multiple pods. And the hill dropped off so, so steeply and we had

2:14:43to preserve that slope. That's again why we have about a mile of road or we have that 2,000 feet or so of road with nothing on it just to get down the hill.

2:14:51Okay. Right. So we're not changing the topography.

2:15:01Okay. Um I don't know how to address the n the Panther, but I mean That's great if we had a panther there. I actually saw wolves on Starkey Boulevard a couple years ago. Two wol two giant wolves. Um Native species. Do you I would assume you're gonna be putting native a lot of native species in there because those are much cheaper to maintain, but native species? Yes. Um Solar. You know, if you were to think

2:15:31about it, um Uh Epperson has solar streetlights and uh I think they're available for other communities. So that's just a thought that you might look at those solar streetlights. And thinking at of the solar of the streetlights. And the someone mentioned dark sky. I mean we have that ordinance in the county. You can't have a light shine up because we're preserving the dark sky. So we're preparing for that. So your your lights are gonna be shining down, right? Right. We've we're

2:15:59following the the you have land development code standards we're gonna follow.

2:16:03Okay. Um Sasha also mentioned walkable communities. And when I met with you. Um We it doesn't show it on this plan, but my understanding is that you have Um This was the second time I met with you guy you guys. There are It's easy for the members to walk around here. between those big roads you had some Walkable green space.

2:16:30We have two miles of sidewalks, paths, and a nature walk.

2:16:36Yeah, but I mean to get from one street to another and to move through. Yes. Um Let's see. Um the six months. So you cannot live for six months here, pull out. And then come back in and use someone else's name or something and spend another six months. Is that correct? There is some kind of safeguard that 'Cause I think some people try and pull that one. We don't want that.

2:17:01Yeah, I don't That's not that part of you.

2:17:04Yeah, I don't honestly again, I'm just using experience. It's in leases paper. Yeah, this isn't a this isn't an inexpensive place. I mean that's that's that would be very, very costly to do that. You would probably probably want to find like a again, like a state park or a county park or something like that where the rates are much lower. These I would assume this place is probably gonna I don't know how much they're gonna charge, but I would assume it's pretty high. Bye.

2:17:28I'm just going through the questions that were brought to me and that were mentioned here. Um okay, sound. Um if if there is a a s uh A sound uh system Can that sound be projected towards seventy-five? Um so that The The decibels are heading to the highway and not over the lake. Just as as you do your layout?

2:17:53That's a good idea. We will certainly think about that. Um all the RV resorts I've been to are pretty quiet places. And so I we don't intend to bring people in and then annoy them with noise.

2:18:04Yeah. Okay.

2:18:07what? Baby having concerts or anything? That That was one of the concerns.

2:18:12I wouldn't think. Well

2:18:13I'm I'm just I

2:18:14that's

2:18:14a good thing.

2:18:14I think the i the issue came up when somebody said it there was a band shell. I think that's where some of this is coming from.

2:18:22Okay, um let's see, what other one? Um oh that intersection. Um is that inter Lake Iola and Blanton intersection? Is that a is that a problem? I can answer.

2:18:34You do have uh your traffic operations uh director, Van Cat, on WebEx if you want to hear from him about that intersection.

2:18:42But yeah, uh I can give you an answer when this first came about, we talked about with uh Margaret Smith and her group in engineering and traffic and U F D O T. And they researched this entire Intercession collide. Like some of our neighbors out there, I also felt it would be a problem. And it came out that it's not a problem according according to the traffic folks and engineers.

2:19:07Looks like a perfect intersection for a roundabout rather than that. funky way that they have

2:19:12maybe in the future, but at this time they they kinda gave a report that it was not that Big of an issue or not? I felt I think I heard one of the neighbors speak of that. And I felt the same way the first time I heard about the project and I called in Margaret Smith and engineers and traffic and F D OT to research that right off the bat to be sure it was not a problem. Um

2:19:36so and lastly, um I we t I talked with the applicants about Um landscaping. And that um that every Lot could have a Have a tree, they've got a pretty comprehensive planscape plan. Um they don't they're gonna show it at the next meeting because I asked for visuals. Um but I think it's important that the canopy that there be a tree canopy on this property. And um they have committed to that. And the

2:20:07pads, I believe they're going to be concrete pavers, not poured concrete. Um so

2:20:14we could answer on that though.

2:20:19Brian, you wanna

2:20:23His answer was their pavers. And how are

2:20:25they installed? So those so concrete pavers are pervious, not impervious. So that's good. And I think that for me that answered all the notes I took from the Oh, and I and I'm I have checked what they're doing and asked them to look at that AECOM study. And took it to the cycling community. We took it to the um B PAC. And they're comfortable with the six-lane addition on the side for

2:20:56the cycling community. And boy, wouldn't we like to have that other places?

2:21:00I um

2:21:01We'll be the start

2:21:02of that.

2:21:07bike path that you're gonna add to the road, I think that's very good because I had an issue with when I got on 41 the other day from Traveler's Rest. I got in biting some bikers and that's a real issue and It's a safety issue. We need to look at doing those. And Commissioner Starkey and I both uh feel the same way about that. Uh somebody brought up earlier, uh, they were referring to this, like in Zephyrhills, all the RV parks in Zephyrhills. This is an RV resort and it's

2:21:37not a residential park like in Zephyrhills or Traveler's Rest, which is probably within a mile of this project. has been there f they celebrated on Saturday. Over fifty years been in a part of the community. They have their own uh store grocery store, they have their own Sheriff's deputy, they have a fire station, they have all these things. And they've been there for over 50 years and been a great part of the community. And m a lot more people than what's here questioned

2:22:07here, because there's fifteen hundred or so in that park so. But they they've had a a great been a great part and a partner to the county and the citizens. here in Pasco County in this area. So

2:22:22Okay. Commissioner

2:22:24Fitzpatrick.

2:22:25Thank you. So I know we have a decibel sound ordinance, so it can the decibels can only be so high. Um One of the questions I received previously was how would the pavers be installed? Would they just be where they're permeable in between they're obvious they would not be pouring concrete between the pavers?

2:22:48Gotta meet Brian. He's gotta come up here.

2:22:54Uh good afternoon, Commissioners. Uh Brian Olin with Lacido and Associates. Seven oh one East Ocean Boulevard Stuart. I've been sworn in, but I know it's not necessary. Um It that would be vehicular grade. uh pavers, so they'd be extra thick on a vehicular grade. Uh subcompacted base. Um, we'd have to look at the soil conditions to see if pervious uh would work. Sometimes you get washouts under them. I know some of these RVs can be quite heavy. They're also utilized stabilizer pads

2:23:24sometimes on the bigger class A's. Uh so the the washout of the underlayment would be my concern with using pervious pavers.

2:23:34So I don't think at this time we could capitulate to Pervious, but I see no issues with with pavers.

2:23:43So

2:23:43you're can I follow up with that? So if you if you check the soils out and the soils aren't strong enough, you're afraid of wash outs, et cetera. instead of making it a full concrete pad or asphalt pad. Is there a space width that you can have to take care of the wheels on each side of it? So you can put pavers in the center part. Concrete or asphalt to the side.

2:24:07But whether or not the pavers would be a pervious system. Right.

2:24:12The county considers any concrete paver pervious.

2:24:18Understood.

2:24:20Okay. Uh so let me let me just finish with a with what I'm trying to s say. So if you find the soils don't work to where you can p make it a pervious system and you gotta put s a concrete bottom or something. Is there a way that you can take where the wheels are going to go for the RVs and isolate those areas as a concrete pad or asphalt pad, whatever it's going to be? And then in between that, on the in the middle part of it. To go put the proteus.

2:24:47That's certainly a possibility. Um under the counties So South Florida Water Management District, which is where I operate, they don't classify pavers as as pervious. They classify them as impervious. So There are certain pavers with a gap between them that allow water to percolate through. that are usually backfilled with a with a uh a fine pebble. Um those are the purvious pavers that I'm referring to where the water actually passes through.

2:25:18Right. Um I think at the very least we could do a paver pad. on all of the pads. Now whether or not it is the the industry standard of what would be classified as a pervious system to allow water to pass between the pavers, that would depend on the soil. the soils, you know, at uh at the site. um which our civil engineer can can talk to uh more specifically. To put A mixed system

2:25:48of grout set, you know, on on concrete pads under the wheels. You could get different stable, you know, settling issues where some of the pavers could settle, whereas other pavers wouldn't because they're on concrete. So I would prefer it to just be one. One system or the other.

2:26:05Will you be able to do your soil testing before the next round comes back to us?

2:26:08Uh

2:26:09did they do borings out there yet?

2:26:15Yes, there was geotechnical testing not on every pad. Is it may I ask a question, is the concern water runoff?

2:26:21Is that Yeah, we want to try to have as much progress as we can so the water Sinks down through the soils as opposed to doing runoff.

2:26:27Right. Understood. Um and I I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are no concrete pads being built for driveways. Every pad will be a paver system. Correct. Every pad will be a paver system. Okay. Right. And but for my stormwater calculations, I have to assume water can't go through it.

2:26:43That's okay. No, that'll just

2:26:44make it better for drainage. Exactly. Exactly. So I have to Whatever world they're living in, I have to pr I have to pretend the water can't go through it at all. Okay.

2:26:54But there is not a concrete pad underneath of the pavers?

2:26:58No.

2:26:58Okay.

2:26:59No, they would be vehicular grade pavers which are a little bit thicker than your typical pa backyard patio paver.

2:27:05Madam Chair.

2:27:06And then drinkable.

2:27:09Can we have more discussion? I have a I've I've waited. Okay. So I I do want to go through a few things that were in here too that I didn't hear about.

2:27:14Oh okay, Jack, why don't you finish then we'll go to Christine. Water will be drinkable. She was speaking. She was speaking.

2:27:20Yeah, let yeah let her finish.

2:27:25Uh there'll be well water that is drinkable, yes.

2:27:30So is the water from a well then?

2:27:33Yes. Yes, the potable drinking water is from a well.

2:27:36Okay, my last question. is that I had some c citizens ask concerns. What is and I've asked you this and you said the taxes, the property taxes are on a per space basis. Do you have that today or can you provide that?

2:27:53Sure, I can provide that. The mobility fees are per space. Right. Um the taxes it's at Valorum tax station. I don't have the numbers, but um and then we also pay tourist tax. I know those are like estimated about three hundred and fifty thousand a year. in a tourist tax to the county. But I can get the Avalorum numbers from the property appraiser. Thank you for bringing back. That's it.

2:28:16Okay. Commissioner Mariano. So one of the questions was asked on here and uh talk with the residents about it was water banking. Is there a way that you can bank some of the stormwater that goes in by creating a big uh stormwater holding facility.

2:28:34So we do have to create large stormwater management ponds. Right. Under a normal system, I mentioned earlier it was in a closed basin. Moody Lake's not a closed basin. Middle Lake's not a closed basin. But as you go down a few more lakes, the water just sort of stops. So that's going to require us to have a special kind of stormwater management facility. So it's not going to be the kind that just water flows into it, it holds it back, and then discharges it. out in a moody lake. We actually have to hold back water a little bit more because of the closed basin criteria. So we're effectively going to be creating

2:29:04what you're saying.

2:29:05Okay. Uh

2:29:10Barbara, we had talked about the um splash pad. How much it uses water. We talked about looking at uh using It's a system that would take a lot of the recycled water. Have you guys done a study on that and how's what's the results?

2:29:25On the splash pad.

2:29:26Yes, we talked about the water use folks this morning and uh we'll work on a condition that we can bring back at the MPUD. Regarding r how to write it that we have to recycle the water for the splash button.

2:29:37And for the board, the reason I'm asking the question is the more water that uses there, it's harder. It's it's very important to recycle so you minimize the amount of water. And discharge you're gonna have all day later on. Um All right, so let me just get to Commissioner Oakley. May ask your question. When you're driving along Lake Iola Road and you're you're stuck behind the the bikers. How wide was that? Because you said it was tough to pass, so even if it's four feet. How wide were the bikers out there?

2:30:06Well you take one bike and you take a grown man on that bike and Whatever his shoulder width and his handlebars. I mean it it looked like it was two and a half, three feet. But you're taking it out of um I don't know what that road is out there, if it's uh twelve foot or it's probably they were in a line. Ten foot length. But they're in a line on one side. But they take up that three feet out of that lane. You can't just drive right by them.

2:30:37So they're all single file, they're not out.

2:30:39They were single file. They were not. I've seen them three deep across and four deep, but they were not. They were biding by the single file. But you as a car in your in your lane, you could not drive straight past them.

2:30:53Okay. So in the southern part of this development, that's where the upgrade they say is good it's good. It's tough to make it wider. Um, my thought was in talking with them, we should uh actually look instead of just doing the six feet, maybe we should look at going even l wider, like eight feet. Uh if you've considered that or do you think it's reasonable to go that way? To make it a little bit safer, give yourself a little bit more room.

2:31:15Well And uh MPO I think has some area that we can go into and it deals with safety that we c probably could get some of those grant funds that we could use for

2:31:24I'm looking for them to pay for it, not a grant fund. So they're gonna I'm looking for them to pay for it, not for a grant fund.

2:31:32So if they're gonna come in, and I'll I'll I'll give him some slack on the first part which's the steeper grade. Right. 'Cause hopefully people go single file. But once you get up closer and closer I think it's safer if you go wider than not. And I think I don't think a couple of feet's unreasonable. Um

2:31:51Are you comfortable with asking for that?

2:31:53Yeah, and they're taking care of the part that's coming down Lake Isla Road in front of that property down to Bayhead because that's the normal travel of the bikers. They'll come from Lake Isla across Interstate, go down to Bayhead and take left on Bayhead and go down

2:32:08Bayhead. All right, so I'm gonna ask Barbara, we talked about this going wider. knowing that the first part's a little bit more difficult 'cause of the steep slope that's there. Uh for the rest of it, let's say coming up to closer to the entryway. Are you guys comfortable going to an eight-foot wide path for the remainder going to the north?

2:32:25We we can certainly look at that before we come back. I mean, just to explain where we got. We we didn't make up these shoulders. They're your study. Oh,

2:32:31I understand.

2:32:32Your study recommended four. Um we did six, because they recommend six if your bikers are going uphill because they sway back and forth to try to get up the hill. Um so that's where that we came from, just so you know we didn't just Say six. We actually looked at the study that Commissioner Starkey Suggested we look at. So but we'll look we can look at that. We can have our team look at what the difference between six and eight.

2:32:55And I wanna I wanna say You know, way back when we did the air report. With Francis Chill and Marino. One of the things we looked at was all the different employment centers around this whole county. We took every interchange up and down, including 4175, even knowing the topographical differences of this one interchange interchange around the whole county was designed for something commercial to be in that area. Exactly what was gonna happen, didn't know, but that was why we targeted this one area for that one thing. And this is like I've writing a butting it. And

2:33:26by the way, Barbara, the next time I wish you'd have the picture like we talked about, where you can see the interchange in relation to the project. Because around that is where the density some density should come. It shouldn't sprawl out. But around this hit the change we had to expect something to come in there. And I also said

2:33:40that interchange uh staff's been looking at that interchange and there's already some employment generated businesses coming there. Uh not started yet, but it's been approved to be there. And and it's been on the On the books for thirty years been approved to have uh Uh employment centers. So

2:34:02And when when we were doing this, one of the things I suggested it didn't get adopted was to the When you look at Pennyless and Hillsboro How they developed in northern part of the county, replied to us and look what it did for us. It jammed us up all the way up and down. And now those people are coming up and around. It's a mess down there when it could have been much better set. I've always said the n the northern half mile of Pasco County should be more intense all the way around that border. Because you know Hernando County is gonna grow stronger at the bottom to the south.

2:34:30Yeah.

2:34:31So I don't wanna go past that point as far as density goes. I'd like to keep it to the rural that we got. Um And uh that's one of the things. So let me just add one one extra thing about the project, Barbara. Do you have spots here for horses and trolse trailers to come in with the RVs?

2:34:46You know, I been asked that question recently. Um I don't know the answer, but we will get an answer.

2:34:52Okay. So the next presentation, I'd like you to bring something back where you can actually make this More horse friendly as well.

2:35:02How do they make it horse friendly?

2:35:04If you got a so you can take a host trailer and

2:35:08Well they travel their travel horse there's horses out there, they travel a lot. So even in the Northeast Rural, the Northeast Rural grew. Have spoken to me several times about wanting a Um equestron. A Vincent or somewhere out in the northeast rural area. But then when you talk about it

2:35:27or something?

2:35:28Well How do you

2:35:29make

2:35:29Well what Mr. More and we were talking about is when you have that arena. And you have all the horse traders with the live in quarters and all and the buses that come along with that. then there's almost like a R V park along with that event and that event could last four or five days or a week.

2:35:47Yeah, I

2:35:47have

2:35:47friends that do that.

2:35:49But there there's There's gotta be give and take and and there's a right vision for it. I don't have it yet. But I think there's something that that's out there that's gonna be unique. Very beautiful for the northeast area.

2:36:03Well Madam Chair. Yep. When you're considering the bike path, having possibly like an equestrian trail going alongside of it. So just incorporating the equestrian and the bike routes together. Okay, now we're getting a little bit more.

2:36:20Yeah, so and I appreciate the comments. So are

2:36:22we under discussion? Yeah,

2:36:24or did we have a motion?

2:36:27I've got a motion to feed them and things like that. So that wouldn't be good.

2:36:31Okay. I move approval.

2:36:33Second. You move you move transmittal to the Department of Economics.

2:36:39Yeah,

2:36:40say it that way.

2:36:42Okay, and we have a second any more discussion? Is this a roll call vote or a regular vote? Okay. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Um we are back to um Dan Biles. Do you have anything more you want to share? Okay. Uh to the clerk? No. No. No, to the county attorney. Yeah. Yeah. To the county attorney.

2:37:08How do you go? Oh probably I'll make four or something.

2:37:13Darn it, if I didn't write it down I'd not gonna remember.

2:37:21Give 'em one minute to figure out here.

2:37:27I have someone to discuss, but I can't remember what part that is.

2:37:30Commissioner Oakley?

2:37:34He's going to another meeting. Is he?

2:37:40Okay.

2:37:42Okay, we're still hey guys, you're gonna have to take your conversation out, sorry. We're still uh in the middle of our meeting. Please go on outside the doors. Thank you very much.

2:38:04Oh yeah, I remember what it is. Okay.