Discussion - Street Parking Ordinance - No Funding Required

1:07:48What do you think? R eighty four. R eighty-four.

1:07:54All right. R eighty-four, discussion of the street parking ordinance. Commissioner Oakley

1:08:00Thank you, Madam Chair. Um it's been a let me pull my notes, I apologize. Obviously it's been a couple years since we've had this really had this discussion and and um So I wanted to bring it back up again.

1:08:13I'm getting and I don't know if you guys are, but I've I hate to call 'em complaints, concerns from um quite a few residents throughout the county. When it comes to on on the street parking. Um and I know we were gonna get back to this at some point, but uh you know other things obviously took precedent to that. So I just really wanted to have that discussion today. Um Right now we don't allow it. Um if you're gonna have any type

1:08:43of gathering, as you know, you have to uh get a permit for it.

1:08:48But that's in your Your development.

1:08:51No no, we're not talking about

1:08:53county

1:08:53wide. This is County Wardets. It's so we before you got here we

1:08:58just said. But I'm in the county and I've no

1:09:00I meant before I live

1:09:01in an area that has parking on the street.

1:09:04Mm-hmm.

1:09:04Mm. Yeah.

1:09:06Mr. Steinsteiner would probably jump in and let's go.

1:09:11If you're in a HOA or something like that, it's a private street. Well, let me just keep going for let me continue on just for a minute. So and I can let Mr. Well Mr. Steinsteiner can explain the current ordinance if he so pleases before I how how about before I get in the weeds? You go ahead and explain the ordinance to the fellow board members that were maybe we're not here we had the discussion before.

1:09:34So you have designated by zoning restriction in MPUDs, no parking on the streets in almost every MPUD that's been adopted. Um there are areas of the county that were never designated no parking. The streets were wide enough, they were old old enough and you're allowed to park on the street. If it is a designated no parking for area, the ordinance kicks

1:10:04in and says it's violation to park on street. But and mo and and Commissioner Moore is right, correct, but most modern residential subdivisions have something in them that says that you can't park on street. That is generally because the streets in More recent MPUDs, I'll say the last 15 years.

1:10:34The streets have had alternate standards to be reduced, or they have the approval of the MPD has allowed for a narrow street. I think Commissioner Moore had told me his is 24 feet wide, but there are many that are 20 feet wide. And if you start parking on both sides of a 20-foot wide street and you have issues getting fire service equipment through their streets, not

1:11:05to mention a resid yeah, a single-family residential car has difficulty getting getting through, or if you've got a RV. What so

1:11:17The general rule i the general rule for most modern residential subdivisions is they do not allow s parking on the street. That's not that's by the zoning restrictions.

1:11:31So where would I find that information? Uh states of Fort King, because they park in the street all the time. Well Commissioner Weightman spots talk about that.

1:11:39So you would you would find it you would find it in the covenants and restrictions, the the zoning approval that was issued by this board when that project came through. Okay.

1:11:51But explain the initial and this and this happened even before I think any of us were here, the in the the ordinance that took place Previous. I maybe Commissioner Mariano was here. I don't know. Maybe.

1:12:04Commissioner Mariano predates me, so it's likely that he predates all of us. He might

1:12:10have changed birds. But it was it was a it was an ordinance enacted by the county over those concerns. That you pretty much you you mentioned um a a a second ago.

1:12:22So that so your general Yeah. Code of ordinances in section uh 106 uh 26 basically is authorization to prohibit parking. Board of County Commissioners may place official signs prohibiting parking upon public roads and right-of-way, roads dedicated to the public by Platt. in county-owned parks, on county-owned property, in other areas

1:12:52under the jurisdiction by passage of a resolution which designates the area where such conduct is prohibited.

1:12:59And I can't move.

1:13:00Um that's you occasionally on your consent agenda will see traffic operations bring those resolutions forward to you. The general

1:13:13the general prohibition in most cases is a zoning regulation.

1:13:22Not The code of ordinance punishes But the but how you got there is when each particular project came through, it was deemed that the roads were too narrow or whatever and uh and generally it has been a

1:13:45a policy of this county that All M PUDs as a general condition prohibit parking on streets.

1:13:56So what I was trying to get to, because we again we had discussion a couple years ago was more so of special events and parties and things, but do you really want to, every time you have a few friends over, maybe it's on a whim. to run down to the county office and get a permit because you're gonna have three extra guests come over to your house. It's just silliness, right? We look at area okay, uh South Tampa. allows street parking, right? For example. I

1:14:26was talking to a friend the other day, he's from Cleveland, for example. This is I'm gonna get to where I think is a way to get around this moving forward. For example, there, everybody knows in the in the in Cleveland and outside of Cleveland that You can park on the street, but you can't park on the street on the side of the street where there's fire hydrants. Noteback. Common sense, right? You park on the other side of the street, you're gonna get a ticket. Right? Obviously we don't want people parking on both sides of the street because not only emergency vehicles can't get through, but you might if you have a wire vehicle, heck, my

1:14:56truck sometimes I you know I might not be able to get through. I have a motor home. I know where I live, it's a twenty-four, I measured it, twenty-four feet wide street there. Um there's pars cars parked on the street. I can I've I have no problem, you know, going the other lane and getting my motorhome through. No no issue whatsoever. Now are there some streets that are smaller? Probably. I mean yes, right? Um but my thought is You know, and I want Chief to come up if he in a minute if he doesn't mind, we'll put him on the spot here. Um

1:15:28But if we allow it on one side, again the street that does not have fire hydrants I think that's the way we need to move forward. I mean I've got so many people, you know, mo the majority, I guarantee ninety five percent of the people here in Pasco County do not know that they cannot park on the street. It's we don't uh it's very rarely posted anywhere. Very rarely posted anywhere. The majority of people probably just think you can. You know? I know it's your uh I know it's I know it's you know our responsibility as citizens

1:15:58if I wasn't seeing on this dice to understand the laws of the land, but it's again when it's not posted. If you go somewhere in certain parts of Tampa, for example, it's gonna say no street parking. You know not to do it. You're gonna go take it.

1:16:10Or no street parking on this side. But I I'm in support. I I and I don't if other commissioners are willing. I mean I would say let the staff come back to us with some with some proposals. In many places on street parking is used as traffic calming Is that part of a traffic calming device? I I know in Long League they had to get special variances and and some streets are narrow so um s some streets have only parking on one side of the street because you gotta

1:16:40make sure the fire trucks can get through. So my suggestion would be so let's let's have staff come back with a proposal.

1:16:47Well so I have a proposal from staff right here. But and I appreciate staff bringing this proposal forward when I brought it up to 'em. But I'm not really fond of the proposal. Um because it says it does say single-sided on-street parking um to be allowed, but it said with a minimum of a twenty-five foot um Why do you have

1:17:08to

1:17:08go

1:17:08to twenty nine?

1:17:09Twenty nine. She's they're stating twenty nine. Twenty-four, Mr. Steinsteiner can tell you, is typically the standard width of a road these days. Am I not correct, Mr. Steinsteiner?

1:17:22Twenty what I d what I said this morning was in my experience twelve foot wide lanes was the total twenty four twenty total twenty-four was the

1:17:34the general standard for local subdivision roads elsewhere outside of Pasco.

1:17:41Yeah we're not gonna find many t twenty nine footers guys.

1:17:48I've seen some massively wide roads.

1:17:50Yeah. Well I'm not saying there's not some but the majority

1:17:52And then you'll find speedy on those roads.

1:17:54Yeah sure, sure. But twenty four is is is is fine. I mean that's that's Yeah. You can easily park on one side and get a you know, uh engine through, you can get a m R V through, you can get a bulldozer through. It's you know

1:18:08So so what so we haven't s had a presentation with that I think we should. I think that's the way we do an ordinance change.

1:18:14Oh yeah, they can bring it. I

1:18:15mean

1:18:16that my thought it was it's just to give them direction, okay, twenty four feet and above to allow one side on one side one side street of parking, um, just not on the um not on the side where there's fire hydrants.

1:18:26I'm

1:18:28And obviously you can't we know you you can't you can't park on both sides. One side.

1:18:33I guess I would want to hear from the chief. Twenty four feet?

1:18:35What do you think?

1:18:38'Cause I I don't know the right number. I mean obviously we want the number to be the fi the fire engine can make it down the road and the garbage collector. Yeah.

1:18:48We would certainly like to have an opportunity to look at that proposal. Yeah. Um I'll work with you. Yeah, all only because where it becomes an issue for us is not uh getting through the subdivision, for example, when there's uh no cars there, it's when there are cars there that leaves only the one lane open, say there was on street parking. Right. We have to pull up and we commit a fire truck to the incident that we're working on. We also need to leave room for other equipment to get past there. Sure. So if there's already a vehicle parked along

1:19:18the the you know the side of the road and then we have to come up a inside that vehicle and we parked, we just effectively shut down that whole road. So Well, which I

1:19:26hope you're gonna do if there's a fire anyway.

1:19:28Well we w yes to the general public we would, but to get other equipment that we might need and we need to be able to have that access uh through there. There are there are some um documents that that we use as guidelines to make sure that continues right now. So if we could look at that, um we would definitely like to have an opportunity to do that to provide some input. On that. All right.

1:19:53If you go back if and if you and I appreciate so I'll work with you. We'll talk and we can talk to some of our friends in Tampa or something as well. I think there's a worker. I got a lot of friends over in city of Tampa that work in there. Yeah, five years ago was it five years ago? I thought it was three years ago. I remember the discussion. I mean we've we uh there was consensus amongst all five of us to get rid of the permanent.

1:20:14Yes. There are plenty of roads where it's appropriate.

1:20:17Yeah.

1:20:18Okay.

1:20:18So we'll give we'll if yeah, if they can bring it back to us. I know I talked to Sally, so I wasn't expecting you to come up today. So next meeting we can it's this is simple stuff.