State Road 54 Black Lake comp plan and MPUD

54:46All right, good afternoon, Amy Heiler with Long Range Planning. The items that you're here that you will hear before you is P4, and I will be doing P5 afterwards as well. This is the Comprehensive Plan Amendment and Master Plan Unit Development for State Road 54 Black Lake. So item P4 will be heard first as it is the Comprehensive Plan Amendment. You will be acting as the local planning agency for this item. Yeah. So item

55:16PDD 23-0216 is a small-scale comprehensive plan amendment in the name of CPASS 2207, State Road 54, Black Lake Road. The location is in the South Market Area and Urban Service Area. The applicant is proposing a small-scale comprehensive plan amendment to change the future land use designation from Res 3, residential 3 dwelling units per gross acre, to PD plan development on approximately 33 acres

55:46of real property to allow for the development of 135,000 square feet of retail office and commercial uses, as well as a 250 roof. Hotel. There is a master plan unit development accompanying this project, and it will re it will also include requirements that promote connectivity, pedestrian activity, and outdoor spaces. A connectivity and amenity plan, which will be set forth in the MPD conditions of approval, shall be submitted to review and approve with

56:17the by the planning direct planning director, excuse me, tongue tied. um and his des or his designee prior to approval of the first preliminary development or preliminary site plan within the project. It is located at the south side of State Road 54 at the southwest intersection of State Road 54 and Black Lake. And a resolution to the proposal proposed comprehensive plan amendment is to amend MAP 2-15 in Sheet 19, as well as a text amendment creating sub-area policy 7.1.69

56:47State Road 54 Black Lake PD, and a map amendment to the future land use map. Map 2-9, amending sub-area policy map, uh 2-9, 69, state road 54, Black Lake PD. As I stated previously, there is accompanying rezoning petition alongside this. These are the comprehensive plan policies that are consistent and support the proposed amendment.

57:12The subject site is located at the southwest corner of State Road 54 and Black Lake. This is the existing zoning. The existing future land use of Res III. and the proposed future land use of PD. This is the conceptual plan that goes alongside the planned development, identifying where the commercial retail hotel space will be located along the western edge of the what we're calling Black Lake. It's about a 13-acre

57:43wetland that accompanies the internal project. And then to the east is just commercial retail. And with that, we recommend the local planning agency find the proposed amendment consistent with the comp plan and recommend approval to the Board of County Commissioners.

57:58Mr. Chairman Mariano. Um, since P four and P five are the same property or same project, you do have the option of opening the public hearing on both of them You have to vote on them separately, but you could open up the public hearing so that The public only has

58:19So if that's the case, if that's your desire then staff should go ahead and do it. Do P five too.

58:28Let's do it.

58:31Mm.

58:36Okay, so second item P5 is State Road 54 Black Lake MPUD in the name of PDD 22-7648. This is a rezoning petition from AC Agricultural District to an MPD Master Plan Unit Development District to allow for the development of a 135,000 square feet of commercial retail. 250 hotel rooms on approximately 33.72 acres. This proposed rezoning

59:06petition is accompanied by a future land use amendment from Res 3 to PD to allow for a mixed-use development. The project's designed to promote or to provide the surrounding community with an integrated commercial development. The MPUD will include a transportation network focused on internal capture to support. Support a pedestrian skilled environment, activate the Black Lake as a feature to the development through the establishment of trails connecting to the county's overall trail network along State Road 54, and increase employment generating

59:36capacity along the corridor to provide existing and future residents with a variety of opportunities for office, retail, and commercial usage. The property is located in the Westmarket Area and Urban Service Area. Here is the existing um parcel location map. The existing zoning district being AC, and the future land use of currently RES 3, which is proposed to go to PD. Here is just a note for surrounding development. You have

1:00:06Starkey Ranch to the west. We have Sun Coast Crossings to the east, and I think that is a story across the street.

1:00:18So the applicant is currently proposing two variations to the code within their multi within their MPD conditions of approval. So the first variation is to LDC 805.6, which is the restrictions on post-development wetlands and upland buffers within residential lots and non-residential parcels. The developer has added the condition that they may May enter into reciprocal easement and maintenance agreement in the form acceptable to the county. Staff

1:00:48has reviewed and determined this meets the intent of the LDC as the LDC seeks to place those operational and maintenance responsibilities of all open space, drainage areas, common areas, landscape areas, wetland areas, buffer areas, preservation, conservation areas, recreation areas, and park areas, and other special purpose areas. Areas under the responsibility of a single representative entity for the entity of the parcels such as an H O A or C D D, the property property owner is beholden to the approved site plan to operate and maintain

1:01:18all noted areas without exception. And then the second. is uh uh variation to LDC section nine oh five point two landscaping and buffering. To modify the internal landscaping buffering, since this is a mixed-use project with integrated land uses that should not be separated from each other by landscape buffering, further the applicant proposes a variation from this section in order to allow the landscape buffering to be counted towards the minimum setback

1:01:49requirements, which would further the intent of the mixed-use project by making the most efficient use. Use of the property. The staff has reviewed and the proposed development is intended to be designed in a manner that provides for pedestrian connectivity, walkability, and internal capture through the placement of buildings in close proximity to each other. The intent of LDC 905.2 is to ensure sufficient buffering standards are in place to separate uses. However, buffers increase distances between structures. Staff

1:02:19supports the variation request from the LDC 905.2 as standard buffering does not lend itself to a walkable environment and takes away from the overall goal of the Black Lake MPV development. So additionally, um we have Stave analysis. I wonder if adjoining property. I'm sorry, I think this is a slide. This slide shouldn't be in there. So we're gonna skip over that. Sorry about that. Um so this

1:02:50is going to be your master plan that is accompanying the MPUD. As you see, parcel what's identified as parcel two to the west is going to be where your commercial retail hotel uses are. Parcel two parcel one to the east is going to be where your commercial retail is located. There is A boardwalk or pedestrian path, as you can see, delineated in the brown area, with the open space in the blue areas.

1:03:17And I will go over the findings of fact as well.

1:03:22So the future land use is currently Res 3. There's an accompanying proposed comprehensive plan amendment to PD to allow for a mixture of commercial retail office uses and a 250-room hotel. The subject site includes approximately 14.54 acres of w of category one wetland, which is known as Black Lake. And a category three wetland. The proposed development is will ensure activation of the Category One wetland as a passive recreational amenity, including but not limited to trail boardwalks surrounding the wetland to connect uses

1:03:52on the east and west sides of the site. The sites located in the urban service area and within the Sun Coast Transit Center corridor overlay. The subject site contains three archaeological sites. One is Binky Ranch, Binky Pasture, and both are ineligible for the Natural Register of Historical Places. A Cultural Resources Assessment Survey or CRASS report was submitted by the applicant in accordance with LDC Section 800 and approved by the County's historical resources

1:04:23team. The project's located in the El Nino 98 observed flooding area. This subject site includes a conceptual trail planned along the northern portion of the property in the name of a State Road 54 trail, whose segment extends approximately 3.928 miles from Trinity Boulevard and Suncoast Parkway as identified on the Greenways Blue Ways Trails map. With that, staff recommends approval with conditions to the Board of County Commissioners. And I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

1:04:53So any questions from here for Amy, you know?

1:04:59Okay, thank you.

1:05:07Barbara Will Height, 6327, Grand Boulevard for the applicant. We have not heard from the neighbors, so I'm not sure exactly what their comments will be. But just briefly, um this parcel was created because 54 when it was rebuilt and when it was built actually and expanded to what it is today. I replaced Black Lake, was now Black Black Lake Road. So when I was growing up, we used to go down fifty-four. But this parcel was created in between what used to be State Road fifty four and what's State Road fifty four today. a lot of visioning

1:05:37on this property um with county staff and the district commissioner This is a project that they want to see. It's going to add commercial uses, restaurants, and an area where we have a lot of planned residential, a lot of existing residential. Two lighted intersections, lit intersections with lights today, bus service. So it's a it's a very good compliment. I can tell you that a lot of people looked at this parcel for residential development, but both staff and myself discouraged that. So

1:06:07we were excited to bring this project forward. My Kevin, my client Kevin Frazier, is here who is looking forward to bringing this project forward and providing some Pretty cool uh restaurant uses, I think. And um Steve Henry is here to talk about traffic if those if that's the issue. Thank you.

1:06:23Thank you.

1:06:26Hey, Mr. Chair, we do have some folks signed up to speak on this one. Um Janet Weiss, followed by John Krokenberger. Followed by Steve Cantelli.

1:06:36All right. If you'd come forward please and state your name and address please.

1:06:42Good afternoon, Chair and Members. Um yes, my name is Jeanette Weiss and I live at [address removed], which is about a mile south of Black Lake Road.

1:06:55Right.

1:06:57I'm gonna read my statement. It's much quicker that way. I have lived in Odessa since 2001, lived in Pasco County longer than that, and lived in Florida even longer than that. I watched progress, it was good and much needed. to a reasonable point. Over the last ten years I felt I was watching Slow devastation to our area occurring. Devastation related to traffic congestion. increased accidents on the road due to the same, wildlife

1:07:28devastation from a decrease in habitat at an alarming rate, and more. I have seen flooding and have driven through the same On the road called Black Lake, which is where Black Lake is located. When the storm season comes. Now where the runoff is going where is the runoff going to go when all that land is replaced with asphalt and cement? It floods now during the storm season. I drive through it very slowly, just

1:07:59in that section near Chesapeake. You can see that right where the you can see how Black Lake comes up to the road. There's not much room for any additional Water encroachment. With the land being gone, which soaks up the water now. It's just gonna run off somewhere. So I would just like a little more clarity on what the plan is for that. If there's a feasibility study that was done and What about

1:08:29our septic uh what, the aquifer, how me how uh Is it gonna be one of those huge well situations tapping into w most of us are on well? There they don't have brought in water from the county with the pipes and everything. Most of the area residents rely on that and the septic. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I used to be able to sit outside and hear all kinds of animals from raccoons

1:08:59to birds. With this in mind Now it's replaced with traffic, accidents, sirens, you name it. I'm heartfully requesting that you do not approve this particular proposed plan of rezoning. and building the multi-use situation and specifically the hotel. We have two hotels to the the right, major hotels two miles to the right, we have two major hotels two miles to the e uh other side

1:09:29to the left. You name it east, west, it doesn't matter, they're there. And so please take time to really see how intensely saturated this place could be. I do believe that everybody has a right to live, but I do believe that there is a limit. to that. And thank you very much for listening.

1:09:50Thank you. Any questions? No. Okay. Thank you.

1:09:59Good afternoon. I'm John Krokenberger, Commander, ANVETS Post Line, 145-400. Black Lake Road. Uh as was previously mentioned Um Black Lake Road. At one time was uh the state road fifty four. Our veterans post at one time was on State Road 54. Um it had traffic. People saw our post. One concern that I have is

1:10:30with development People won't see our post from the road. We're already further back from the road than we were. It's hurting um our attendance. It's a hurting our the money that we bring in. So the concern is the visibility of the Post. Um another concern that I have, which was already mentioned, is the flooding. Yeah, already we have areas that flood. Um we have a sewer lift station out front. and

1:11:00we get water off of this property. It is gonna um it's gonna flood our um uh sewer lift station wet well. Uh Uh any significant rain. So uh those are my two concerns. The visibility. as well as uh the flooding. Uh thank you. Thank you very much.

1:11:28Good afternoon. Stephen Cantelli, I'm the Ambett's Post 9 Treasurer, actually finance officer. And it's one four five four zero Black Lake Road. I'm here to speak about the financial impact of this post. Uh last September I took over as the finance officer. um to the year of twenty twenty one. They uh ended up at the end of the year and we don't consider it a profit because we're a 501c nineteen nonprofit organization and we get no funding from the Ambits National, so all of

1:11:58our funding is generated in the post itself. Last year we gained ten members. Our current membership is about two hundred and fifty, counting the Ambets, the Ladies Auxiliary. the Sons and the Riders. This will impact us terribly. Uh last year we ended up at the end of the year with fifteen thousand dollars left over and our coffers And we had two months where we had to close because of COVID. We're currently coming back but we don't come back in large

1:12:28amounts of money. So when the commander talked about uh visual, we were hoping to get more signage out on the fifty four to actually point to us like a green sign. that would start to help us and now they're talking about putting a two hundred and fifty room hotel right in front of us. If you go out on fifty-four and you actually look across fifty-four, you can still see the post today. If there's a building there, we'll be gone. We're gonna it's gonna disappear. And again, We we gain our membership. From mostly

1:12:59word of mouth and people driving by. It's a challenge to even get that. And I know Starkey is out there and uh Stirrier is out there, but we're just starting to pull people in from there. New veterans, these young veterans, are not looking for these for these posts because they think we're a bunch of old guys sitting around talking about the war. It's not true, but it's really hard to get people in. Ambits is one of the largest organizations in the country that supports veterans,

1:13:30and we need this to be there to support these veterans. That's all I have to say.

1:13:35Thank you very thank you for your service.

1:13:39Okay, the next uh set of speakers, and I apologize for mispronouncing this name because it's can't really tell what it says, but I think it says Lin Rue Terry? Larue Terry and the next one is Rolanda Koenig.

1:13:58Is there a Londa here too?

1:14:01Hello? I'm LaRue Terry. Live at [address removed]. Um I don't understand why they're doing a rezoning when they haven't even had a formal application with with MUD. or environmental department. We know for a fact there is a lake, a pond, And there's cypress trees. And there's endangered species. I'm sure there's bats, there's owls, there's

1:14:32um, butterflies, eagles, and I have seen them. in our area. I've lived there since nineteen seventy four. The rezoning will not bring in jobs. Every store I go to has a sign. Full or part time work or both? So bringing in jobs is not gonna help with this at all. It's very dangerous to go out now on Highway fifty four. There's a subdivision called Ashley Lakes. That's how I have

1:15:02to go out to get a highway to a traffic light. This would only make it worse. Um now they're building a strip plaza right on Gun Highway and we won't be able to get out there.

1:15:16I knew there would be growth in the area. And that's that's understandable but it's gone to the point where it's ridiculous. If this does pass, I would surely hope there would be a large buffer easement on Black Lake Road. Thank you for your time.

1:15:35Thank you. Any questions?

1:15:37Okay,

1:15:38thank you.

1:15:47Good afternoon. My name is Rolanda Koenig and I live at [address removed].

1:16:01My first question would be why do we have these meetings during the day when we could have it in the evening with more participation? Number two.

1:16:14We already have four hotels within five miles. How many more hotels do we need?

1:16:26I want to know where is the water coming f uh for these hotels and the strip plaza. If Pasco County provides the water, that would be more of a drain on the aquifer. Uh People in hotels do not conserve water. We know that. So I'm also an employee of Post nine. And

1:16:58I agree with the commander and the financial officer that would wipe us out because we cannot be seen. Thank you for your time.

1:17:09Thank you.

1:17:12Is there anyone else on the list?

1:17:14Mr. Chairman I had signed up to speak on this item.

1:17:18Okay.

1:17:26Sure. Barbara Wilhite, I'm gonna have my client come up who's developing the property. Um And one thing that was stated and he's gonna go over his what can go where the hotel is on the western part, it's not in the visibility area of where the vet post is. Um And I think actually, I guess there's a difference of opinions, but we actually have the opinion that developing that parcel will bring more people that can then be there and see their post. because we'll have activity in between their post

1:17:56and our property and Black Lake. But I'm sure I won't convince them of that. But um let me have my client come up, we um and discuss things like flooding and sewer and and his project specifically. And of course we do have Steve Henry here to speak about traffic, but we we are in an ideal location we have two signalize intersections that will be um access for this as well as Black Lake. I mean it's has a lot of access and different types of access. So

1:18:22Barbara before you leave have a question. So There was a reference in both Amy's PowerPoint and in the agenda memo to a trail Around the category one wetland But when I read the actual conditions it appears that the only place there might be a trail is Along the fifty four frontage and Black Lake frontage. I'm not seeing anything that requires a trail around the entire wetland. And More

1:18:53importantly, there's upland buffers around the entire wetlands that I'm not even sure you could build. a trail around the entire wetlands. So I guess I'm confused about whether there will or won't be a trail around The wetland itself As opposed to just along the fifty four and black lake frontage.

1:19:14But Kevin is here.

1:19:17Well because

1:19:18it's

1:19:19the case I think staff needs to make that clear in their agenda memo and PowerPoint because they're certainly making it sound like there's gonna be a trail around the entire Wetland. In the in the write up. And then in the PowerPoint it says the same thing. So if the intent is just to have a trail on the fifty four and block lake front end, which I would understand because there's a clas it is a class one wetland with upland buffers. Then it that's how I think the ammo should read and your PowerPoint.

1:19:49I agree. Kevin?

1:19:57Uh good afternoon, members of the commission. My name is Kevin Frazier with Axiom Real Estate Solutions in Atlanta, Georgia, thirty-seven fifteen North Side Parkway, suite four-five fifteen, Atlanta, Georgia, three zero three two seven, and I have been sworn in.

1:20:13Mm-mm.

1:20:15So I can actually address um uh Mr. Goldstein's question regarding uh the trailhead. It is a category one wetland. It does run all the way up to State Road 54 and to Black Lake Road. And we do have the minimum buffer standard that we have to adhere to within I think it's 25 feet. It may be actually 50 feet. It's 25 at state. I think you actually add another 25 or so feet at the county level. And so we cannot build obviously within that area. It has to be untouched. But we will be connecting the two call it

1:20:45phases of the project, the western side phase, which is on the west side of Black Lake. and the eastern side phase with walkability so somebody can actually walk from one side to the other. We will not have room to have actual drive access between the two parcels because of the category one wetland and its uh and its limits uh and plus the fact that we're bracketed by Black Lake and by State Road 54. Um and speaking to uh several of the questions, uh obviously some common themes there. Um but with respect to the AmVets post, um

1:21:15I actually have spoken with Commander Krokenberger and we'll be doing that again this afternoon. Um and um I've Answered questions like this before where people are concerned about impacts on existing businesses or residential communities. The types of uses that we are bringing in are new uses to the market. It's restaurant uses, service uses, which actually brings those features closer to the doorstep of those residents and of those businesses. So, in turn, actually

1:21:46reducing the length and amount of trips that are necessary to get to those everyday service needs. With respect to the AMVETS Post, the types of uses that we are bringing in is really going to create a new vibrant commercial node at that intersection that will actually be an amenity to their facility, to where the members can actually go right across the street. Mm-hmm. Have a nice dinner. They can also fulfill some of their everyday service needs. Rather than somebody just coming into the post, staying, and

1:22:16then leaving, they'll be able to stay longer in this area, and I believe it'll actually enhance the profile of their location. I'm not opposed at all to assisting in trying to help with their signage. One thing that you know this much property affords. is additional areas for signage. And so I'd be absolutely open to the idea of helping. My father's a veteran and several of my very good friends are veterans and I want to do everything I can to assist because I think it's a wonderful organization. Um with respect

1:22:46to the wildlife, uh we were required by code to do a species survey prior to our submitting to the county for both the Comp Plan Amendment and the zoning. And uh the spee which is public information that's been filed. Uh we did not find any uh gopher tortoises, any endangered species. There may be some in the wetlands, but we can't survey that area and we can't touch it. So you know their habitats will be unimpacted. In addition to that, we also had to do an historical survey as well, which is referenced

1:23:16on the uh county staff's report on the MPUD condition, which are all county requirements before I'm even able to go through the zoning process. With respect to flooding. Um as a condition of my land disturbance permit when I file for it. The conditions that I develop on my site cannot create an adverse impact to adjoining properties. I mean, that's true in any jurisdiction I've ever developed in. If I develop something that creates runoff and I don't account for that runoff

1:23:46and keep it on my property, the permit's not approved. And so we are developing the blue shaded area that you saw on the slideshow. That is actually our retention facility. Um, it's also gonna be an amenity uh because it's gonna be a um excuse me, an actual wet basin pond because the water table is low in that area. But we're also gonna be bringing in fill to raise up the site. And so that's gonna create additional opportunities to retain water on site so that

1:24:16it does not adversely impact the properties to the south. But yeah, the the area I'm referencing, the blue area, that is our detention pond, and it's quite large. Um and that's by uh just a a minimum standard that we would have to be able to contain. any and all runoff or in any and all standing water that's produced because of the uh impervious surface that we'd be putting down would have to all be contained within that uh facility. Excuse me. With respect to the hotel, um we are locating the hotel on the western side

1:24:47of the lake. Um it's the most natural fit for that side given the programmability of that acreage. It's very narrow. Um but we're also um capitalizing on the growth that's in that market. There's a lot of uh medical growth. I know there's been word, uh it's still kind of up in the air, that there may be a very large athletic complex going into the north of us. Um all of these uses uh would not locate in this area unless there was the demand uh to um actually

1:25:18meet that deal. that need. And so um and we're not talking about a just a a junk hotel. I mean this is going to be a limited service product um that's going to be a place that you know my family goes and we go on vacation. And it's going to really serve the community and also servicing this project itself. And again, the retail components that we're going to bring in, these are high-caliber users. This is not Dollar General. Nothing against

1:25:48Dollar General. I've done them before, but this is not the site for that type of use. These are all very first in class concepts. They want to be associated with other first-in-class concepts. So um that's our intent is to bring a gr a grade A project to the market and piggybacking off of off of all of the you know tremendous growth that's already occurring in Pasco County. Now I'm available to answer any questions.

1:26:13All right. Mr. Chairman just uh two clarification points. One is that it is a twenty five foot upland buffer or not fifty feet, just to be clear. Um but the other point is that Well I appreciate the genera generous offer about the signage. Would the county has code requirements about off site signage, so He really cannot be advertising somebody else's business on his site. Understood. He can design a site so that business is visible. From his patr for his patrons, but he can't.

1:26:43Be putting up signage for them.

1:26:48Is there a is there a way to petition the county for a s a county sign?

1:26:53So th there are times and I'm not the expert on the green signs that are put on fifty four, but I think if it's There are certain types of businesses and attractions that that you can petition DOT to have those signs put up? But I'm not an expert on Denise, do you know the criteria for that?

1:27:09I don't know what the criteria is. Um But you certainly have to petition F D O T. That's What you would have to do.

1:27:16And is there an opportunity for a variance or alternative standard with regard to off site signs?

1:27:22There

1:27:22is

1:27:22no variance from a prohibited use. Okay.

1:27:27But I know that like for example Big Storm Brewing got a sign from D O T to to locate so I mean There are businesses that do get those signs.

1:27:39Yeah, and then another option would be to um advertise on potentially a billboard or something like that. State, you know, it's three blocks away or whatever the Direction would be.

1:27:53Kevin You see those kind of signs about just about every ramp on an interstate or vet the Veterans Expressway to tell you where the McDonald's is are and all that stuff. So sure there's a way to do it.

1:28:04Kevin, I think some people asked about utilities. Can you confirm where utilities are coming for the property?

1:28:09Yes, so the water is actually coming from the south side of Black Lake Road. Um I've got a survey. I I apologize, I don't rem remember it by heart. Um but we're gonna have storm sewer, water, um, obviously power, and we'll obviously have gas on site as well for the restaurants.

1:28:24But they're gonna be public utilities provided by the county?

1:28:27It will be, yes, correct. And it will be Brought to our property line will be responsible for basically facilitating its expansion into our site, but we'll be connecting into the existing uh mains that are within immediate proximity to our property.

1:28:39Is there an outfall for Black Lake Under Black Lake Road.

1:28:45Again, I'll have to ask our civil engineer. I don't know if there is an outfall. I know that the small pond, it was a cow pond that was located on the eastern side of the site, that did not have an outfall. And so we're able to fill that. We've already gone through this process with Swift MUD. We've had all of our pre-apps with F DOT and Swift MUD, which are just standard operating procedures that I do whenever I go into develop a new project. Um, but we can certainly find out the answer that I don't know personally where that outfall occurs.

1:29:14Can we see a map of the El Nino flooding?

1:30:04Wow.

1:30:07Okay. Thank you.

1:30:21Is

1:30:21your civil engineer here?

1:30:23Uh no he is not, but they're based in Lutz Florida, they're local. So any questions that our the commission may have, I can get those addressed through the civil engineer.

1:30:34What I'd really like to know is if there's some positive outfall. This This map shows that there's during Multi day events where we have When you're required to design for this project, under the county standard you're gonna be asked to look at a one day storm event. The water management district standards you're gonna be asked to look at a one day storm event. It looks to me like the topography drains to the south. Towards

1:31:05Black Lake Road if I'm reading. I'm sorry 'cause I'm looking at a small screen here. um away from the DOT, if you were draining to the Department of Transportations right away, they'd look make you look at a multi-day storm event. And I'm concerned that if we don't design this site for a multi day storm event that we can exacerbate the flooding in the area, which is And If the weather forecasters are right this year, we're going to have an El Nino for the next couple of years,

1:31:35so we may see this condition again.

1:31:41So I'd be looking probably to have maybe our basin of special concern design requirements attached to this site because I know that this area is a problem out here. Understood.

1:31:59Okay. Yeah, Barbara.

1:32:03Well we certainly can look at the issue. I don't think taking an ordinance that doesn't apply and applying it here is the solution.

1:32:12Yeah.

1:32:14Well if you want to look at a different standard, we can look at a different standard. That's what I'm

1:32:18asking.

1:32:19That's

1:32:19standards that are in that ordinance.

1:32:22That ordinance I'm sure if it was your client's property, you wouldn't want that applied either. That's ordinance has a lot of subjectivity into it. I know it. Very well. And it's not an ordinance that's written.

1:32:35And if they were draining to the DOT right of way, they'd have to do that.

1:32:41Okay. Continue us so we can take a look at it.

1:32:48I cannot do drainage in a zoning action on the fly. That's the expectation of what we do at zoning here.

1:32:54But I'm hearing drainage concerns from the residents, and this is the only time they get dispute.

1:33:00They don't get to

1:33:00speak at your site planning.

1:33:01There's a Swift Mont Code that we're supposed to follow. There's a Capasco County Land Development Code, adopted codes, adopted state regulations that we're supposed to follow, and we have to follow. up new rules at zoning at planning commission is really not fair to this applicant.

1:33:16Well, and as the Chairman said at the last meeting, when new development comes we need to make sure it's an improvement to the area, not a detriment to the area.

1:33:28I d I just think we're we're creating a dangerous precedent by just doing things on the fly though. I mean we we've been provided direction from the code and we've been provided direction by the board. Um Personally I I mean I I hear what you're saying, John, but I think it it just creates a dangerous precedent out there. Well

1:33:45I haven't made that as a most

1:33:49Just um take the vote.

1:33:52Sellers representative s is here. So we are in a point of if we continue this, we may lose our contract. So I mean really we have codes. And I'm really you know, we have codes, the Swiftman has requirements. We need to follow those and not be trying to make up standards in a zoning action. It's really not fair to this applicant. Um so I guess I'm gonna ask you for your vote because the seller's representative is saying we will not get more time if we continue this, so

1:34:25It doesn't mean that we can't work on it before the board, it's just we can't do it here.

1:34:34We have identified an El Nino flooding area for what purpose?

1:34:43I mean we put it in the staff report that this was in the El Nino flooding area.

1:34:49If there's nothing we can do about it and what was the point?

1:34:54Well, my recollection is that these areas were identified and then the county came through and did drainage basins of special concern in areas where they wanted additional regulation. Those were adopted with notice, with vetting. And so the county took this data and then created drainage basin of special concern generally and then applied that to specific properties and required certain studies be done, an additional modeling. So all of those that was implemented through. And this property did not get a drainage based a special concern

1:35:26applied to it. But certainly could have. if that was something that the board, the county thought needed to be done as a result of this data.

1:35:34So Mr. Moody, I one potential explanation would be that it stops just putting the applicant on notice that when they go through stormwater plan review. There may be some heightened standards to deal with it. But there are. But they think they would look at it when the stormwater plans come in. I think to to Mr. Girardi's point and Barbara's point.

1:35:59In fact, we just had had a a dis dis debate debate on on the design manual. We actually had an opportunity to change it. Nobody wanted to talk about it. Nobody Might want to talk about roads.

1:36:11But If there's no criteria in the land development code, the staff doesn't get to say, Well, you need to design to this storm or that storm, they have to adhere to what's in the code, right? Isn't that what she just said?

1:36:22We follow the codes. And if the county commissioners, the board wants to do with drainage basis and special concern in this area, wants to adopt it and go through that process, then we have to follow it. But I think putting us on notice We professional engineers will have to design this. We've been on notice on record about an issue. They will have to take that into consideration when they design it. And I'm okay with looking at it in between now and the board. I just

1:36:51Well we don't change the code, we only make a recommendation to the board.

1:36:57And that would

1:36:57be my personality.

1:37:02To the

1:37:02last thing I wanna do, and I think the the people are right, and that's common sense. We're gonna pave Something that's not paved. It's a known flood area. I've personally seen this area underwater. I know what the Water Management District's standards are, and they're gonna say that the post development volume of runoff can't exceed the pre development of volume of runoff. Well that's great. Otherwise other than that it will still flood. We should do something to try to improve the flooding.

1:37:34I don't know that you can solve it all on your own.

1:37:37And we have no problem

1:37:38that would be helpful.

1:37:38I could put on the record we have no problem doing that. Our intent is intent is if we can help, we can help. Yeah, we that's what every engineer I know ha always does. I mean they it's always they stand up here and say Well we to the extent we can improve the situation, we can't make it worse, but if we have the opportunity to improve it, we will.

1:38:02All right. Are there any other questions?

1:38:05Recommendations, motions.

1:38:12By

1:38:13your motion.

1:38:13Well I I guess is it on the land use first we have to make two separate motions, correct?

1:38:17Correct. That's correct. Yes. I'll make a motion. Could I ask in both motions that include a re request that staff remove any reference to the trail around the class one wetland from their Staff reports and And PowerPoints.

1:38:35I'll make a motion to approve is it PC four first? Is that the first one? I'll make a motion to approve PC four uh with the request that the staff remove reference to the trail around the class one wetland and also just including the notes, just something requesting the Staff. give this project I mean extra make sure you look over the the stormwater calculations that are submitted. Don't I mean I'm not saying adhere to different standards, but

1:39:03Well this is the

1:39:03land use, not the

1:39:05correct

1:39:05zoning, but

1:39:06Well if you want to condition Well

1:39:08that would

1:39:08go with the zoning, right? That would be on the zone. That

1:39:10would be zoning.

1:39:11Okay. But the issue with the trail around the class one wetland affects both memos.

1:39:15All right. So I'll amend my motion to just be the reference to the trail around the class one wetland.

1:39:20And I would second that.

1:39:21So we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion of that motion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Those like signed.

1:39:34Yeah, I'll make a similar motion to approve the the zoning piece under PC five. Remove the reference to the class one wetland and add a note in there for staff to give you know, extra review to the stormwater and and pay attention to the stormwater calculations.

1:39:50So I need to be any clarity on that. So for in the first part you mean reference to the trail around the class one wild lines. That's right.

1:39:56The trail around the class one wetlands. That's right.

1:39:59I am not sure what you mean by note. Do you mean a finding of fact

1:40:02conditions? And I I guess there's already a finding of fact that it's in an El Nino area, correct?

1:40:08Yes.

1:40:09So I think that probably Addresses the issue.

1:40:12I can add something to the memo.

1:40:15Thank you, Amy.

1:40:17Okay. I'll second. We have a motion. We have a second. Any further discussion of the motion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. I name it. Pose like sign? No. Motion carries.

1:41:01I sent it to you in the email.

1:41:14Okay.