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Not on the published agendaPublic hearingInferred

North Ridge MPUD P D D 22-75-93 and three variations

What the county recorded

This item is not from the published agenda

It is a stretch of the recording that this archive identified as a separate matter — a call to order, a recess, or something taken up that the agenda does not list. There is no official title, no staff recommendation and no disposition, because the county never recorded one. Everything below is inferred.

The source document

Published agenda

The county’s agenda for Planning Commission, Jun 2, 2022

The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.

Approved minutes

The county’s minutes for Planning Commission, Jun 2, 2022

The published PDF, as served by the county. This item is one entry in it.

What was said

Transcript

Machine transcription of 1h of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 93% of 352 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.

Read it in the meeting →
Unidentified speakerVoice A

Thank you. So we go back to uh PC six? PC six,

Charles GreyChair

yes.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

So

Charles GreyChair

is the applic in the applicants present? Would you like to

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well usually you let staff present.

Charles GreyChair

Oh I thought they already did that. Okay.

Um

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Yes, we we'll have uh

Charles GreyChair

Orlando present it. Yeah.

Orlando Borraz

Good afternoon. Orlando Borrells from Current Planning. Uh this is P D D.

Uh oh sorry, my bad I got the It's

Charles GreyChair

okay, and you don't have to speak as fast as Denise.

Orlando Borraz

Oh, my bad.

There it goes. There it goes. Again, it's going to be Norwegian P D twenty two seventy five ninety three. Okay.

Right.

So this is the location map. Uh currently uh this object property is located uh in the south side of the County Line Road, approximately to uh two miles west uh of the Song Coast Park uh parkway.

The current zoning districts are building. The subject property are going to be the County Line Road to the north. To the south we have the AR Agricultural Rural Zoning District. To the east we are going to have also an AR Agricultural Zoning District. And to the west we're going to have a residential mobile home zoning district.

Uh the fusion line use of this object property is res one and the abuting fusion line use it's also res one and industrial light and industrial heavy to the east of the subject property.

The applicant is requesting every zoning from AC ER MPUD zoning district to a master plan MPUD development district to allow uh up to 40,000 square feet of commercial office use and 770 single family detached units on approximately uh 178.15 acres.

Applicant is also requesting uh three variations from the code. The first one is going to be uh from the section eight oh five point six restrictions on post-development wetlands and upland buffers uh within residential lots and run non-residential parcels uh to allow a developed developer to enter into a reciprocal easement and maintenance agreement. The second one will be uh from the LDC 905.2. To 61. And it's to allow the use of non-invasive plant materials during

the PDP stage for buffers. And the third one will be from the section 901.6. Street design and dedication requirements to allow only an emergency exit on the Normandy street.

Now uh from the staff analysis on these variations, uh staff noted for the uh uh variation from eight or five point six, the the easement uh will be in agreement uh only for the non-residential part of the subject property. Uh for the use of it of existing non-invasive plant materials, staff also noted that uh these will be uh work. between the applicant and staff at the PDP stage.

And for the uh variation from 901.6 uh D.11, uh staff also noted that the Norman D Street uh could be used as an emergency access due to existing homes with uh with driveways on D street. Using Norman D street only for emergency access will not disrupt or stop traffic circulation in the area.

This is the master plan for this MPUD.

and defining the facts for this MPUD. The applicant is also seeking a corresponding comprehensive plan amendment, CPAL 2123, for a change in the future Land use from REST 1 to PD plan development. The subject property is currently unimproved, and the project area is located in the North Market area. Access to the property will be from the County Line Road from the North Side. And the applicant is coordinating with the

Pasco County and also with Orlando County. The applicant is also requesting a loom, which is also submitted with the master plan to allow any. Exchange of uh 70, I mean 70 single family sorry, detached units to uh 20,000 square feet of commercial use. And the proposed request is consistent with the Pasco County LDC, Chapter 400, subsection 402.2, zoning amendment, MPUD, master planet, master unit plan development, my

bad, and with the uh applicable provision. from the Capasco County Comprehensive Plan.

PD D staff recommends the approval to the PCC with conditions.

Charles GreyChair

All right. Any questions for Orlando?

If not, um Mr. Wall Hight.

Barbara Wilhite

Good afternoon. Barbara Wilheit, sixty three twenty seven Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey. for the applicant. I'm not sure exactly uh what the public comment will be, although I did speak to the gentleman briefly before. Um so let me just be brief and then we can rebut. But Our land use now for this property is Res1. There's a pending land use amendment to PD. to allow for up to 4.5 dwelling units per acre. You gotta put that in perspective of a couple things and why that it has been supported

by staff and the and the Compoint Amendment is underway. We're talking about County Line Ride Road North, our Terriel Roadway is planned to be um improved. Actually the state legislature uh approved fifty million dollars uh to appro improve that road. um in this past session and is pending with the governor. The other thing you have to think about that area is that it is on the county line. and the density that we're seeking for this project is consistent with the density occurring um on across Hernando

County. So What was thirty years ago was appropriate when the res one was placed on the property. is no longer the appropriate um future land use and the and the development uh vision for the property in this area. So I know uh Terry Pitos is not here today. but uh he spent time um before we made this application in really talking about you know, what should be the vision for this area of Pasco County given those particular facts

of what's going on in uh Hernando County, directly across the street from our entrance and we actually had to change our entrance to line up with a project Um in Hernando County, so we have a our access lines up is the same density as this project, so It's um when you come down Candy Line Road it'll be very consistent, so thank you.

Charles GreyChair

Barbara. Uh, I don't know if anybody else has a question for Robert. I know we're gonna give you a chance to revive, but um I'm just curious about the utilities, where is that coming from?

Barbara Wilhite

So there is an interlocal with um Hernando County. I understand that uh There's some discussions about that in our local? And so we're trying to uh get down to the bottom of that. But it's we have a email from February from Hernando County that they would serve with sewer. and that the Pasco County would we would extend the water from the Pasco County utilities.

School District Representative

Okay.

Charles GreyChair

Any other questions?

School District Representative

I have a question. And I don't know if it's for staff or for Barbara, but um I guess right. Number five on the agenda says access to the property from Kellyanne Road. with approximate 160 feet of right-of-way. It looks like right now there's fifty feet of right of way. That extra one ten. How does the process work for that? Does the county work with the applicant to get that right of way and

Barbara Wilhite

so you you're speaking of the right of way for County Line Road?

School District Representative

Yeah.

Barbara Wilhite

So there's a P D and E that was done um in anticipation of how the alignment's gonna be for the four lane county line road north. And for that P D and E it was selected that

It's four. Yeah, it's four.

School District Representative

Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

That's

School District Representative

right. Okay. I was thinking of like when you

come

off a nineteen and county line it's a six lane.

Barbara Wilhite

This section is proposed before.

School District Representative

Okay. Thank you.

Charles GreyChair

Alright.

Um, I believe you had uh some questions about if you'd like to come up and state your name and address please. And I think you've been sworn.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Yeah, I guess I Uh Kenneth Rukowski. My property is um directly south of this proposed development. Uh-huh. I've been here forty-two years. Move from holiday up to Port Richey and then finally bought this when I came out of the army. I've lived there my whole life, basically. My daughters went to school there, three daughters. And right now there's not any room for

what they're planning. County Line Road, if you look at the right-of-way. is two lane road as w as was mentioned. There is developments on the Hernando County side. There's nothing to get any other way except when you get to either US nineteen, Shady Hills Road, or the Sun Coast Parkway. Where they're planning their entrance, just I just heard this, realized it now. There is it gonna be A a

hill there, which already Preston Hollow, which is to the east of that, is already having problems because the road is east west and the sun is either setting or rising during the major part of the the commute days. And we're having the big increase of accidents now on County Line Road. And I'm concerned about this is basically going to be the the opening to go ahead and just build this whole area up. And

I moved up there to get away from development and now it's like Here it comes. So I you know, I don't know what to say besides that. But you know. Thank you for your time.

Orlando Borraz

Sorry.

Unidentified speakerVoice B

Okay. Kenneth Rikowski, [address removed].

Charles GreyChair

Anybody else? If not, then not. However.

Barbara Wilhite

Can we just Mike Razor, you wanna hop up here and Talk about the traffic analysis that you did and

Thank you.

Mike Razor

Uh good afternoon. Uh for the record, Michael Razor with Razor Transportation Consulting, 19046, Bruce B. Downs Boulevard and I have been sworn. Um

Charles GreyChair

Michael, hold on a second. Do we have any kind of an overhead so everybody can see the configuration of the property? Yeah. then Michael can point to what he's what he's he's a clear understanding, especially for the the person who came here to ask about it.

Mike Razor

Nice. Nice. Which

which button was it to get the the pointer on here?

Charles GreyChair

I'll just try them all, I guess. Explodes? Yeah.

There you go, there you go.

Mike Razor

Yeah.

That's not no, not a new.

School District Representative

Yeah, that's name that. Exactly.

Barbara Wilhite

I'm just you, I'm just doing.

Oh yeah. Uh uh.

Mike Razor

All right. So uh you can see the property it's located uh one of the large rectangular squares. Uh the one to the east of where the uh looks like a dirt pit or mine is located, south right-yes, right there, and then there's some tracks to the east of that. Um On the north side of the road, there's another development that was permitted, and I believe it's under construction now, in Hernando County. Our access

Our access is Plan to align with that other subdivision. Uh here we go. I believe it's in this general location right here. Um in in any any event that will be a four way intersection north-south-east-west. Um our traffic study identifies that we will need signalization at at some point. Um and so that would be a signalized location when warrants are met. Um at this point, the traffic study that we did Is you know zoning it's a traditional zoning

level traffic study because the commercial uses are yet to be defined. Um Access the access evaluation was preliminary in nature. Um, and what that identified is that we're gonna need turn lanes at all of our access connections. We're gonna need a traffic signal when the warrants are met. It's gonna coincide with the location on the north side as well, so it'll be a traffic signal that serves both both developments. Um the issue that was brought up uh by the gentleman uh was in regard to the sunset. And accidents and whatnot, that's

really more of a site plan permitting function where we look at site distance and whatnot. If there is a vertical curve, that would certainly need to be addressed. However, since the other project is already ahead of us, I presume that they've looked at that already and identified that that was acceptable because they've got site plan permitting approval through Hernander County and are proceeding with development. So again, that would be something that's looked at. a little bit later on down the line.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Sure. So Mike, on the capacity issue of County Line Road. In its two lane configuration, does it have enough capacity to handle this project?

Mike Razor

So, our David, our study looks at Condyland Road in two ways. One is the traditional way that's in most of the zoning studies. It looks at it on a generalized basis using the F DOT's generalized service volume tables. That showed deficiency. However, this particular segment of Connie Line Road is interesting because to our west, the next signalized intersection is uh Shady Hills Road and Mariner. And to the east, the next signalized intersection is Anderson Snow Road. There's three and a half miles between the two. So when

a detailed analysis is done using the highway capacity manual procedures, that takes into account the Running time between the two signals and the delay incurred at those lo at those those two locations. At both of those locations, Cunningland Road is a four-lane section. So It operates as a four-lane section at the two signals, and so when everything gets computed, uh the the detailed level of service information shows that it is not um uh deficient.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

With your project traffic and any

Mike Razor

also state that um those traffic signals currently work because they're on four lane segments of of County Line Road. Um I've indicated uh in uh t to to transportation staff, uh NEMA and Essen specifically, that um at the time of uh meeting the traffic signal warrants if in fact County Land Road is not already pro or funded and under con or under construction for um the four laning uh along our frontage, we

would pres potentially likely need to advance the four laning of that segment east and west of our new traffic signal. Putting a traffic signal on the two lane road is gonna would would would not work. So we would need to have a four lane segment um where the traffic signal is located, whether that be from the DOT project, or if we get to that point first where the where the um where the uh traffic signal is warranted, that four lane section would would need to be implemented by the developer and uh you know we need to talk further about that with the county once we get to

that that uh analysis stage.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

What what is being approved across the street, just so I know.

Mike Razor

It's a it's a residential subdivision. I don't recall how many units it has. Does anyone remember that?

Around two hundred I'm hearing from the from the applicant.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

All right. Um so just to be clear, whatever access related improvements staff tells you you have to do at site plan approval, you're acknowledging you have to do them, even if that means potentially four-laying part of County Land Road.

Mike Razor

Uh correct.

as indicated in the conditions, not as specific to four laning, but of course it's the typical language

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

improved stats and pretty much make you do whatever you they want to. Yep. I just want to make sure you're acknowledging that could be effectively four laning part of the road.

Mike Razor

Correct, and we've discussed that.

Okay.

Charles GreyChair

So

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Commissioner, uh we have Asan who is or uh with P D D he'd like to speak.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

With uh S N?

Unidentified speakerVoice A

S N with our uh transportation. Oh okay, S N, yeah.

Asin Khalil

Specifically Nima, you know Google and uh Um which will give you this project I also looked at it. Mindest. The generalized tables are a first cut. Uh we look at those uh to see if the capacity is there on the roadway, looking at the links, uh which did show some deficiencies, but uh when a more uh Microscopic analysis using uh Synchro uh or H C M uh procedures. When we follow

that, it does show it takes into account the intersections and the geometry at the intersections and the capacity that's available. And they do show that the operation is within our passing parameters that we have. So the level of service on the segments is not an issue. As far as the signal is concerned, it is uh tied to. You know, as uh development occurs, uh the warrant studies will be requested of them. Uh uh you know at time when uh the uh the the development you know comes up

to a level where it warrants a signal, we will ask them to put the signal in. But I think uh we will do a more detailed study at time of site plan review phase. And uh that may show that, you know, with the development to the north and their development may show that, you know, the the signal may be needed sooner rather than later. But we always put in language that it can always be requested. at a at an early time, you know, by the county engineer, if uh County engineer uh deems

it Yeah, the study needs to happen sooner um and the signal needs to be installed sooner. So I think uh the The applicant understands their part and their traffic engineer also understands their part.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So Can we just also either staff or the applicant address the density issue? I think the gentleman was asserting that this was Her rural area. I mean that's looking at the map it's not obvious to me that it is, but if could staff or the output can address The density and why you feel it's compatible for this area.

Barbara Wilhite

I did do that on uh my presentation. Um so I'm not sure what I can add to it. But certainly

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I don't know what the lot sizes are around it.

Barbara Wilhite

Well they are they are they are larger lots around us and we have our biggest lots.

I think the question is You know, should it be stay at res one? Which is where it was thirty years ago? Or should there be a change? Um

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well let me just ask the question more specifically. Looking at the the lot sizes even Are your lot sizes gonna be comparable to Boetz in Hernando across the

Barbara Wilhite

Yes. Yes. Okay. And that's when when we looked at it with Terry Pitos, I'm sorry he he's not here to to talk to you himself, But that's was the major driving factor was what is actually going on in the area. looking at it from what's going on with the road, what's proposed with this road, what is going on to the north, the development pattern at the north. and that's why he felt that the project that we're proposing is compatible um with this area and what the future of this area is going to be.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Has staff concurlando, do you concur with that? Yeah. Okay.

Unidentified speakerVoice A

Chairman, this is Roberto Bessarrilli. Um I don't know what conversation Mr

Biggie Brian

Pitos has had with uh Mr Mrs. Walhat but uh one of the things that we are looking at in the comprehensive plan update twenty fifty is we understand

Unidentified speakerVoice A

that there's development pressure from Hernando County coming south. Uh and one of the things that we have been discussing is we don't wanna become a suburb to uh Hernando

Biggie Brian

County either. So uh this applicant has been uh provided some uh areas for commercial and office as well and that's uh one of the reasons why I believe this application is also uh recommended for approval.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I think staff and the applicant addresses all the comments.

Charles GreyChair

Right. Any other questions?

School District Representative

I have a question. If uh could you guys go to that site plan that was or the MP uh master plan?

And then just uh okay.

Yeah, right there. If you could zoom up up at the upper left.

Yeah. And I guess as a question and a comment I I would uh Is yeah. So that development in an inner can is just to the north of that westerly Access point. So that's where the light would be.

I don't know if you could put a arrow up there or the laser up there. But it's the further west

Barbara Wilhite

The answer is yes, the further the westernmost access point.

School District Representative

That's what I thought. Thank you.

Charles GreyChair

Oh yeah, who's Big Mm?

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yeah, it's quote.

Charles GreyChair

In

Unidentified speakerVoice C

the crowd.

Charles GreyChair

Sorry, we just we have to go ins and current you can't speak more than once, so yeah. Um

Yeah, somebody new? Yeah, you n you're gonna have to come forward please.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Just to be clearer, we're gonna have to give Ms. Bull Hyder a transfer

Charles GreyChair

button. Yes, I understand, yeah. Come forward at your you're for the applicant or for the

Brandy Lake

I'm against this to be honest with you.

Charles GreyChair

Okay, we we're gonna need your name and address and have you been sworn?

Brandy Lake

I have not. I apologize, I came a little late.

Charles GreyChair

Okay, take her to

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

jail.

Anything else that has not been sworn in Intends to speak.

Unidentified speakerVoice D

You square it? That's what you were about to give is the truth, so I'll be done.

Brandy Lake

Yeah. Thank you. So my name is Brandy Lake. I live on the south side of County Line, um right off of Oxenham. Uh [address removed]. Uh I've got a lot of concerns with this. I just recently moved here in the last couple years. And as it is getting I understand where they're talking this traffic pan um pattern right on County Line Road. But what I haven't heard addressed is the

traffic, how it's going to affect the current residents who already reside in this area. Because if you have been there, I understand the traffic analysis. I live there. I deal with this traffic coming in to and from work every single day. getting off of getting on to county line from the from like Alexon, which is one of the main ways to get to Oxenham. That's already a nightmare to get off of to get into the area

over there and to get onto County Line from there. Increasing and adding seven hundred and seventy homes, not to mention the commercial and that how is that going to affect the how they haven't addressed that in the increase in the traffic.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Can you tell us where Oxingham is? 'Cause I don't know. That's the street area. South, yeah, it's just south.

Brandy Lake

So if you go directly south of County Lines.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

How does Oxenham get to County Line Road?

Brandy Lake

Alexson. If you take um County Line like from my house, if you go down County or uh I apologize, go down Oxenham, you take a right on Alexon, which is directly off of County Line Road.

Charles GreyChair

It's all the way down here. Yeah. Okay. It's not on that property.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So your concern is the intersection of Alexand with County Line Road?

Brandy Lake

Yeah, it's already bad as it is now. Um you you have times where I've seen five, six cars waiting their ten, fifteen, twenty minutes to get onto county line as it is. And that's just with the development and that they've done with adding a Dollar Tree or I apologize, Dollar General right there, with the current traffic and the current houses that are already there. You want to increase that seven hundred and seventy residential homes, that's just gonna make that that much worse already for the current

residents that live there. Not to mention we live in a fairly quiet neighborhood. You know, we mo everybody that has moved out there has moved in this area because it's peaceful. It's quiet. We all live on an acre plus lots. and that whole area all along Alex End, there's nothing behind us but where they're wanting to develop. You're gonna take that away from us. We bought our houses there because we wanted that peace and quiet to get away from the busyness of the

city, of the suburbs, of everything else going on. And that's taking that away from us. Not to mention us, our children, our families, w it's a very quiet community.

So that that's the traffic and the noise are my biggest concerns for this area and what this development's going to do to it.

Orlando Borraz

Okay.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Can I else have any questions? Can I ask the applicant a question related to the Halekson Intersection County Line. Barbara. Barbara or Mike. So I know you all are showing Or

Charles GreyChair

Mike, either one.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

You're showing an interconnect from your property to the west. I assume that property that's at the intersection of Alexon and County Land Ride County County Land Road is vacant, correct? You're showing an interconnect to it?

Barbara Wilhite

We are, that's correct.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So I guess my question is Once it develops would would traffic be able to get from Alexand over to your new light?

To because if they can get to a light, your new light That in theory would address the concern about them being able to get out on the county line road if they can get to your light.

Barbara Wilhite

There certainly is a s we're looking at it here on his phone. There certainly is a stub out to that western property that's vacant. And uh we are required required to provide an interconnection to that property, so If that was a county requirement that could could that could occur.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I guess right now it's zoned tag though, right?

There's also well, that was gonna be my second question, which is I don't even know if she would be okay with it, but The other option would be to have to make Normando a instead of an emergency access, make it a pool access. So they could get up to your signal. But I I mean is that something you all would be willing to do if they

Barbara Wilhite

Well we certainly were concerned that the residents wouldn't want us to have anything but emergency access down there.

So that's why we proposed it that way.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well, but I'm hearing they're g they're having a hard time getting on on the County Line Road. If they could get to your signal That gives them a way to get on the county line road.

Barbara Wilhite

We we can evaluate that. I can't do it standing here, but we can certainly evaluate that.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well can we ask the lady who just came up whether she would support A internal connection to get to your signal?

Mike Razor

And then in addition I um I wanna talk just one more item about the traffic signal. In addition to A traffic signal providing the egress capacity for this project that will create additional gaps for local street connections east and west of the project, as well as the ability for Alexon Street specifically to make a right turn and a U turn at that traffic signal. Rather than making the direct left, which I can understand would be a difficult movement. We identified it as being difficult

in our traffic study, which is why we identified the need for a traffic signal to begin with. So

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I understand your point, but I think it's better if they could get to the actual signal. I mean 'cause

I'm envisioning that there won't be much of a gap. Traffic will just stack up in front of Alexand. I mean once it stopped, I don't

I agree. I don't know how you're really creating a gap.

Mike Razor

In the in in westbound traffic flow, David. Right now there's no gaps because the traffic signals are so far apart from the right-of-way. But if there could be a gap in w in in at least one direction, and that increases the potential for a usable gap to make a direct left turn. But more importantly, the right turn followed by U-turn uh would would be available at that point, which, you know, a as we know from DOT many DOT studies, that's preferred over a direct left.

Barbara Wilhite

And and I think thinking of the alternatives that you're going through The interconnect with a new project as opposed to Which would be the product of the West. um would probably be preferable to interconnecting with an existing subdivision that has driveways and so forth. So The opportunity there is When the Project to the West comes in

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I I don't

Barbara Wilhite

disagree with you, Barbara,

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

but I have we have no idea when that project to the west

Barbara Wilhite

The County has has a pre app they're got a pre app on that.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Oh they do? Is that Staff know anything about that?

Barbara Wilhite

Well probably not. Th they wouldn't know necessarily. Everybody wouldn't know here, but

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

What is it coming in for, just so I know. Is it commercial?

Barbara Wilhite

It's got a it's residential, similar residential.

So that's where the opportunity is. And they're looking at with staff of whether to have a commercial component.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay, well if that if that's imminent, and I tend to agree with you, that's the better location to give the mass system signal.

Barbara Wilhite

Which this project accommodates.

Given that connection on the MPD plan that's required to the west.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well. Before this gets to the board, I think staff needs to be prepared to speak to what they're what they're requiring of that applicant. I mean 'cause I'd like to know that they're requiring that applicant to provide that.

Commercial they always do, but they don't always require for residential. So I'd like to know that they are in fact going to require an interconnect between Alex and to get over to your signal. Brad, do you know?

Barbara Wilhite

I don't think it's been discussed at that level, so I don't I don't I mean st Steve staff can speak for themselves but Yeah,

Roberto Saez

Brad Tip and Planning and Development. Uh that's not on the radar yet. Uh it's it's just coming in, it's in the very initial stages, so we're talking a pretty long time before we could even have an initial thought on on what we would do there or what could happen there. Uh so I don't know that we can state as part of this project what we would be doing at that time.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I mean this project is doing what it's supposed to do, which is showing an interconnect. Right.

So

Roberto Saez

Theoretically by code they would be required to make a similar interconnect.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I understand that, but I've seen staff allow deviations from that when it's residential. Correct. So Are you prepared to make sure that happens, is my question.

Roberto Saez

I can't speak to that until our access management team has looked at everything and and done that. I don't want to commit either way. But the the general default is to have that type of connection.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay. Well I just think if that connection's required the the life of these residents actually may be improved because now they can get to a signal that they previously could not have gotten to.

Roberto Saez

Oh I I completely agree. Uh Essen I believe is is on Kathy. It sounded like you wanted to say something?

Asin Khalil

Yeah, uh thank for that Dave. I I I believe uh it would make uh a whole lot of sense when this other parcel develops or comes in for development. Uh East West Road, uh can read the name Clarissimo Avenue, maybe? that a connection be established over there.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well I don't know if this project is showing their interconnect uh Corlissum.

Asin Khalil

Just wrong. We are here discussing now this potential pre app that we're talking about. When that comes in makes sense to have the Have a connection at Carlissimo. It's a public right way we can possibly connect over there.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

But I don't think the project this current MPUD is showing an interconnected Carlissimo.

Roberto Saez

No, they would not

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

be a good thing.

Roberto Saez

No, this this one there's that uh there's an entire parcel, large parcel between this project and Carlos MO. But the east-west connection criteria that we we have in the code, that would be the natural location for it to occur to provide a connection to Carlissimo and then a connection to the east into this property wherever they establish their connection point.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay, I'm maybe uh maybe I'm not making myself clear. Um can you pull up the M P D plan for this project that's currently under review?

My my question is that arrow that's showing a connection to the west I don't think that's Corollissimo. No.

Roberto Saez

No the the the there's an entire m parcel that's this size. On that side. So

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

what I'm saying is, if if the in if the intent is to interconnect with Carlissimo, which seems like a good idea, then We should be showing an arrow on this there too.

Barbara Wilhite

My team said move it up. So we can move it up. and produce a new one of these before the board that shows that connection north to be more equivalent with Cherismo.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So you're willing to interconnect your curl SML.

Barbara Wilhite

We're willing to get a little bit more than that. Yeah, we We can't make that connection between the vacant, but we can make sure that the our connection is a equivalent

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Is lined up. Basically does your property dead end in Carlissimo? I mean does Carlissimo dead end into your property?

Barbara Wilhite

No, and it dead ends into the property to the west. That's at with that's at the preop stage with staff.

But for us we can The comment is is that where we're showing our cross access our interconnections, excuse me, is farther south than we're Where it would be to line up with And eventual. um connection to Corismo.

School District Representative

It's about a tenth of a mile south from County Land.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Yeah, I just think these errors need to line up where staff actually thinks there's viable interconnect.

Barbara Wilhite

Understood.

Roberto Saez

So the existing terminus of Carlissimo is a quarter mile. West of the i the the westernmost boundary of this site. So wherever that access point is on this site, there's plenty of room for that to meander. through the adjacent site. Uh If they're willing to commit to it being closer to make it a a cleaner, straighter path, it can certainly do that. But uh there's a quarter mile distance there.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

Asin Khalil

bar that that just this proposed development it's not needed, right? So that the signal is uh can be used by Other graph.

Barbara Wilhite

Don't you're speaking about our project?

Asin Khalil

Yes.

Barbara Wilhite

It's not gated.

Asin Khalil

Yeah.

Barbara Wilhite

Thank you, Essen. Wherever you are.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Except Well, except for your emergency connection to

Barbara Wilhite

Correct, correct. We are gonna have that gated so our traffic's not going into that existing project to the south.

Christopher Poole

Could we can we go back to that for one second then emergency access? 'Cause what I'm looking at if if somebody's got the control of the map could zoom in on that section between Oxenham and the southern property boundary.

Somebody can go back to Pasco and Mapper.

Speaker, sneaky. So I'm only seeing one driveway there that might be interfered with if that was full access through on Normandal would be the prop yep, that the cursor's on right there. The rest, it looks like the other properties are access, their access is from Oxenham, not from Normandow.

Roberto Saez

Yes Commissioner O there would only be one immediate driveway on that segment, but traffic going that way would pass all of the other driveways on those other routes. A lot of things.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well, realistically though, I think it's more likely those people would go north than this traffic from this subdivision would go south. I don't know why Traffic from this new subdivision would need to travel south. Right. They they wouldn't. There's nothing to the south. Yeah. So an interconnect is probably gonna s in my opinion, help the people to the south more than it's gonna help the people to the north.

I mean can we ask the lady who spoke earlier What do you think is the resident's preference would be out there in terms of

Charles GreyChair

You're gonna have to come come up to the microphone. Does this line up with the with that emergency action?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So th the question is you you raised a concern about being able to get out on the County Line Road.

Brandy Lake

Correct.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

This new project, if approved, would have a new signal within their project. My question to you is would it be better for the residents to get their To that new signal through curlissimo. Kind of an east west.

Brandy Lake

So I that's where my concern is is when they're talking about Carlissimo That's the right-of-way.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Can I finish my question and then you can answer? Would it be better for the residents to get to the new signal through Carlissimo or through Normandow? Normandau.

Brandy Lake

I'm I guess I'm not understanding how it would be access to that light through Carlissimo. I mean I are you talking like go out on Alexon and take it left or right on Carlissimo?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So they'd put a new they're putting a new signal at the sort of the western portion of their project along County Line Road. So There's two ways that we can envision residents of this neighborhood could get to the new signal. One would be to go straight up Normandow into the project to get to the new signal. Or the other would be to go up to Carlissimo, make a right, and then get to the New Signal.

Roberto Saez

Okay. So the signal will be somewhere in this area. Okay. And they're talking or some I'm sorry, somewhere in this area. And they're talking about Carusomo being continued across here to get to that signal and up or having it come down the other side here to the bow so you can come all the way through this project to that signal. Is there a prevalence between those two directions? I think it's what he's asking.

Brandy Lake

I I don't know that I would say that there is a preference. I can't imagine the residents on Normandu or Normando um wanting to have full access. Um I don't see how that I I mean there's already a couple driveways um there I know at dead ends and they're talking about extending that for an emergency access on Normando. Um I don't see the right to be honest, I don't see the residents being happy with that. Um because that's gonna again uh with

the tr you know, that's gonna increase traffic through our neighborhoods.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

So you'd rather see it uh Carlis and off?

Brandy Lake

To be honest, I wouldn't rather see it because it with this traffic, you've got kids playing out in the roads. And everything. How's that going to affect that?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well, they're putting in a new signal. You don't think it's beneficial to be able to get to the new signal? You just said that you couldn't get onto County Line Road because

Brandy Lake

Correct. I did say that. Um I I do think it's beneficial. I don't know that putting a that extending Carlissimo Um, I I that may be the better option than Norman do.

is extending Carlissimo.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay. You've answered you've answered my question. Thank you.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah, I I can't I I personally I can't see the people in this proposed subdivision choosing to drive south uh

Donald E. Anderson

Mm-hmm. To

Charles GreyChair

the next road south. I can't see the name of it.

Um They're gonna go north. They're not gonna come to Oxingham. There's no reason to. That's why the emergency exit. But they need a connection at some stage to that traffic light. Because like you said, David, I think sooner or later people there's gonna be a backup of traffic going going east from that traffic light blocking uh their road out. What was the name of that road? Alexon. Alexon. Yeah

then there'll be no way to get across to make a left hand turn. Only option would be turn right and make a U turn. And that won't be easy.

Yeah.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I think I'm hearing that the residence problems in Carlissimo, but Then again, Carlissimo is not apparently may not happen in the immediate future because it depends on whether somebody comes in for development while so do we know whether the development application that's been submitted includes that Carlissimo piece?

Barbara Wilhite

It is just at a preop stage.

So there's there isn't a a development proposal at that level of detail.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

South to Corlissimo.

Barbara Wilhite

That project is for the whole Rectangle.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I'm asking. Okay, I get it.

Barbara Wilhite

So yes, that project includes the property that would be adjacent to the Stub out of charisma.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah, that's the middle of the first forty acres there.

Asin Khalil

Well definitely eight notes and uh ensure that that connection does happen. I have a question for you to those if if we end up connecting to the south to Oxingham and creating a public access roadway. Whether it's through these two projects and out to the signal or coming from the south from Oxingham, are you then creating a public roadway? Would this be a county maintained roadway then? Because now it's open to general public.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well, it could be county or C D D, either one. It would be a public would have to be a public roadway though, yes. So at least the road The Carlissimo extension over to the signal would have to be a public roadway or The Normandow extension would have to be a public roadway. But What I'm hearing is this particular project does not intend to geet any of the roadways anyway. So They're gonna be county

School District Representative

Well that

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

The issue is gonna be The project to the West.

Make sure that Carlissimo can be extended over to the new signal.

Then These people won't be able to get to the light.

Asin Khalil

Well I can't speak on that right now without reviewing the project. So once it's here we can uh definitely Pursue that. East West connection. If that is the Commission wants us to do.

Biggie Brian

Mr Chairman Whitney Hudson would like to be promoted. She's with the Plan and Development.

School District Representative

Who is it? Whitney.

Unidentified speakerVoice D

I have some info on the pre-app for this parcel we're discussing. Um it looks like it's coming in in August. of later this year, August seventeenth. And the conceptual that they have right now, again it's a conceptual, uh, but they have an emergency access connection to Clarm Carlissimo. But they also are proposing a connection to the proposed connection of the North Ridge M PUD that they are showing on their western property line. So

that's what they have right now. Again, it is a conceptual, but they are suggesting an emergency access connection to Clarissimo.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay, well that won't work.

I mean not if that's You're saying that what they're proposing is directly the opposite of what Essen is suggesting. Just so we're clear.

Unidentified speakerVoice D

That is what they're showing us, sir.

Charles GreyChair

So what we're saying is that we're not going to be able to think that's a good idea. It should be a public access road until they get to the traffic light.

Asin Khalil

And I think I think this was also the game. I'm I'm certain they're proposing emergency access because they don't wanna get into substandard roadway improvements. Cause it seems like uh Clvismo and uh the North South Road, Alexon, it's it's probably not a standard roadway and they don't wanna incur that. cost to improve it. So but if if they're showing a stop there and if it's an emergency access, we can definitely pursue a a a a proper

access, full access.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah, I think that's what we're saying because we probably will be taken a not a good approach to that.

Is

that

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

can I ask Whitney, is that coming in as an M P U D?

Unidentified speakerVoice D

Yes it is. Yes, it is David.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Well if it's coming in as an M P D, the Planning Commission could basically force that to happen. You just have to remember when it comes in. And we will staff could just require and we have to go through.

Charles GreyChair

You might as well 'cause we will if you don't. Yeah, save us the work.

And they'll they'll need to be apprised of the Are we or th of the new alignment that we're moving south?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

But I think for this project you probably need to have the interconnector moved up to line up with Carlisle.

Barbara Wilhite

Yeah, we'll we're gonna look at that.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

The this is probably a silly question, but does anybody know the the section of County Line Road that's going to four lanes? What's the is it divided? Is there a median opening there? I mean I we're talking for a long time about a interconnect and If there's no median opening they're gonna get there if they get out to County Line Road anyways.

Barbara Wilhite

So they're asking about transportation stuff and you guys are goofing off back here.

I'm kidding about that.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

The question is what part of County Line Road is gonna be four lanes? Is this is is this part of it?

Mike Razor

The four laning that I was referring to in association with the traffic signal, is that the question?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

No,

the

DOT project.

Mike Razor

Oh, it would f it generally fills in the gap between currently we go from four lanes to two east of Shady Hills Mariner. And it picks back up at four lanes west of Anderson Snow. So for that generally three and a half mile segment or probably three mile segment where it's two lanes would be the would be the improvement. So it'll be four lanes consistently from the Sun Coast over to where the six lane section picks up over to nineteen. Yes.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Is there a median opening at Curless Mot? Do you have any I mean at Alexandra, do you have any idea? I do not

School District Representative

know.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Okay.

School District Representative

Have they even gotten that far?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I don't think the road has been designed.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

It's not designed yet, okay. That's what I was thinking. Right.

Charles GreyChair

Okay.

Yeah, questions, Chris?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

But even if there

is

a median opening, I don't think that Hernando or Pasco are gonna allow signals that close together. No.

Unidentified speakerVoice C

No no I I guess what I was getting at was if there's not a median opening there, people are gonna go up Alex into County Line and they're gonna make a right and get to the signal, the same that they would do with the interconnect through Carlissimo.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah, the only difference is is that if you're turn to the right and then gonna have to make a U turn, you're gonna have to cross two lanes turns if you turn to the right and that's that's where accidents happen.

Mike Razor

The uh the spacing would be in excess of a a quarter mile, and that's just the width of that vacant property, the other property.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah.

Mike Razor

Um there's two uh lots to the west of the vacant property, and then whatever that distance would be between the our western property line and the signal would add additional distance in there. So we're probably gonna end up closer to you know somewhere between a quarter mile and a half mile. Um Yeah.

Charles GreyChair

It just feels safer if they can get to the traffic light and cross in my opinion. Rather than having to turn right and then whip over through two lanes and make a U turn.

Mike Razor

It would provide another option.

Charles GreyChair

Okay, so you're gonna definitely configure your road, your connection Yes.

Barbara Wilhite

Yes. I mean it we're gonna gonna look at it I mean within reason 'cause it can meander some. It doesn't and maybe it's better if it does actually for the subdivision to the west. So you know, straight shots tend to be Not the best for that subdivision, so but we'll look at it. Okay. And we'll Yeah. Certainly intent, we understand the intent of what we need to accomplish.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

I think to make it clearer, Harvard, you should probably show some roadway to Don't just show an arrow, show like a conceptual roadway that kinda goes It connects Carlissimo up to your future light.

Barbara Wilhite

Okay. Yeah there's a mobility plan on our M P D plan we can add that to.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

Barbara Wilhite

Okay.

Charles GreyChair

Okay, so then the at the southern one the southern access will remain an emergency access and that'll be gated.

Barbara Wilhite

Yes.

Charles GreyChair

Okay.

Any other questions?

Hey Prap here.

School District Representative

Just to comment, I think it you know we're doing good for the residents and for the developers, so it's all seems to be working out well.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah, yeah, I think it would be y uh the tr I mean, the truth is is that No matter when you moved here, when you came here, there's always people that were here before you that wish you didn't come because you uh disturbed what they thought was a peaceful area. You know, this area all at one time where your homes are where it's woods. And uh So Unless you're in a position to buy the property and control it. something's gonna happen to it.

It can't just stay like it is. It's just not reasonable. And so we're trying to find the best solution for all all parties concerned. So, um Um I w I appreciate Everybody coming, the two of you in particular, asking questions and giving us a chance to try to make it better. than it than it might have been. And uh it's gonna go from us to the County Commission and

they'll be picking it apart too. So um I suggest that you go there and make sure you get every question answered that you can. Um that meeting we have the dates and the locations for so we'll be happy to share that with you. But uh I think I'm sure Mrs. Will Hyde will Ms. Will Hyde will be uh happy to meet with e both of you separately or together and and go over any of your thoughts and try to answer any of any questions um

that you may have in the meantime.

Roberto Saez

And one additional question, maybe for David. Um I believe the individuals uh on existing Carlissimo that's now being considered as a a through road for this uh are outside of the notification boundary uh for this project. So they would not have they wouldn't be here in the audience to discuss any opposition they might have to that connection as well. Uh is there do you want us to reach out to them through the board meeting? um on this one or do you want them to wait to address it on the next one?

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Mm-hmm. I mean if we're counting on Carlissimo to be to help the residents that are complaining about this one, I think it should be included you should probably notify them before the board meeting. Okay.

There's a at least give them whatever mailed notice you gave to for this one, at least give them the same mailed notice. Okay.

Okay. But I I mean I think we probably only need to do it for the peop the ones that are

Roberto Saez

Yeah, just right on that

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Looks like there's three lot owners that that are east of Al Alex and that would be impacted.

Christopher Poole

Yeah.

Charles GreyChair

Okay.

All right. Anything else from the board up here? No sir. Okay,

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

you don't hear a motion?

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Motion to approve.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Is that with the caveat that they move their interconnect?

Unidentified speakerVoice C

Yes.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

Oh

Christopher Poole

sorry.

Jaimie GirardiVice Chair

Okay.

Charles GreyChair

I'm sorry, we have a motion to uh approve of the application with uh with except for the modification that they move the interconnect Um to align with um what's the name of that right?

School District Representative

Mr. Chairman Mariano add one more thing that they just work with that developer to the west, you know for that interconnect also.

Charles GreyChair

Yeah, when that application comes in that's w that's gonna be pretty pretty much our job. Yeah, okay. They're gonna show a vision road going through that anyway. Um So uh is there for any further discussion? We have a motion. I think we have a second, right? Yeah. Any further discussion of the motion? If not, uh all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. Okay, motion carries. Thank you.