CNU conference lessons learned
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The source document
The county’s agenda for Board of County Commissioners, Jun 4, 2024
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The county’s minutes for Board of County Commissioners, Jun 4, 2024
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What was said
Machine transcription of 18m of recording, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 98% of 92 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong.
David Engel, Planning and Economic Growth Director, I'm here to make a very quick but concise presentation of lessons learned and Commissioner Starkey and I went to the 32nd CNU conference in Cincinnati, Ohio. So I'm not gonna read slides. I just wanted to uh let you know that my perception of this Congress of New Urbanism has made a dramatic improvement. I really felt initially that and I read a lot of their stuff that they were kind of fringy and
maybe a little bit out there in architecture and land planning. But when I attended this conference with the commissioner, I was so impressed with the level head. headedness in the context related recommendations that we're making. One size doesn't fit all with the CNU, it's to kind of create better places to live and to function as a community. And they did a great job and it was very well attended. So the first place was we went on a Wednesday, we went on a tour. It was probably
about 10 hours, I believe. We left at eight in the morning and didn't get back until uh seven o'clock at night. And we we visited some interesting places. The uh we went to Louisville, Kentucky, the home of Mohammed Ali, and also the slugger. I guess he was a slugger also. And we visited a place. Place called St. James at Belgravia. It
was
a historic community and neighborhood in Louisville, Kentucky. And this is from, we got this from the Smithsonian. This shows a linear park road system that was put down the middle of this neighborhood. And this is how the project looks today. The traditional urban design that was used in this project has sustained value and is adapted to modern contemporary living. A lot of those bigger homes are now converted
into apartments, quadruplexes. There's a tremendous pride of ownership here, and the value of these homes is far beyond the rest of the surrounding area. So good design is Sustainable and it endures value to a community over a century. And it's interesting that fountain was gorgeous, very historic. So the next place we went was right next door. It was in Norton Commons, which is part of the Louisville suburb. It's
575-acre brand new greenfields development. So traditionally. Neighborhood design doesn't have to be just redevelopment, it's new development. And you can see that the road system there has that same linear carter, and it's almost like it's the same neighborhood. One built 124 years before this one. And this is the land plan here. Again, 500.
And they have a radial road system there with uh with predominant collector carters, with linear parks and open space. It almost looks like a miniature of Lonfont Plaza and Washington, D.C.'s master plan. It's that it's that traditional, and even though there's curver linear components of the road, you can see it's at a grid-based system. So there's open access.
That's important to say it's grid-based.
So I I call the slide all along the transit. What is a transit? It's a evolution of land use over a distance. You start from urban, then uh and then the density lessens out until you get into a rural suburban environment. So there are two commercial notes here with activity centers. Wait,
we're gonna start all over because I have two commissioners in the modes.
What's that?
I gotta get Seth over here with eyes on the screen.
Oh Seth. Well before I get to that, I just want to let you know You know when you when you drive through Pasco neighborhoods, you have certain emotional reactions. If you go through a track neighborhood or when Mr. Starkey drives through one of our townhouse neighborhoods, there's a certain reaction and response. I want to tell you when I when when Kathryn and I visited or Mr. Starkey and I visited this property I was I was felt so welcomed and so in America because it was Americana and
its best. And those are the type of neighborhoods that we think you can have here. So this is your high-intensity activity centers. And the nice thing about this community there are people that are school teachers and firemen living here, and there's multi-millionaires here, and they go to the coffee. coffee shop and they go to the bakery and whatever in these nodes and nobody has asking how much your net worth is. We they all get along. It's safe and very orderly. And along the
transect, the next phase is your form-based design, building taking a whole block, vertical mixed use, and all of these retail buildings, or a few buildings that are still under construction, the project started in 2004, are all occupied, heavily used and heavily appreciated by the residents.
Is that is that that one that you just showed there? Is that the hotel? I think that's the hotel. No. What now?
No, I'm sorry. Someone's having a little bit of trouble with this. Here we go.
I believe that those are nine.
Go the other way.
Yeah, hit the other button.
Choose the button's about to start maneuver. All right, um keep going.
Some of that remind I mean Dade City could have some of that. Yes.
You just need more density around the downtown. Um
so there was a hotel over
stores also. Yeah, next picture.
I believe
that's the hotel.
That's that is correct, Commissioner Starkey. Yeah. That would that's a hotel that's over those stores there.
It doesn't have a lobby. It doesn't have a check-in desk. You check in online and you
Go to your room.
You go to a room with a a key that un unlocks the door.
Uh next slide please. And uh there was also senior citizen housing and this this this kind of remind me of the uh the I like I like Ike century of the fifties, this con this design. But that's a brand new building.
But if you looked at the other side, uh uh this is the back side. On the other side it's stores underneath. It's all shops underneath. So it's vertical mixed to you.
Well, you
know,
I was still in the back. Mr. Starkey moved so quickly I was rushing to catch up with her all the time. Yeah. Next one please. Uh and this is the missing middle housing. And as you can see, um it it's really almost a a It's a form-based code. It's even though there's single-family homes, it almost is a continuous development along a block with very little separation between buildings. And there's quadruplexes in there and other types of attached housing that allow for affordable, affordable, attainable housing. Next.
So right next to that area are upscale executive homes. So the wealthy residents. Of the community have no problem being by density, no problem being part of a community with mixed uh different socio and economic backgrounds. They just embrace this lifestyle. And here is uh in the build, the single-family homes go up to two million dollars, and here it is. The next slide is the two million dollar uh version, and you can see it's almost attached to the
house. Next door and it's uh commanding at a very premium price. David, yes. If you go back two slides, sure. That's allowing their their live local
product. It isn't.
Um well relative to the development, it's all
live local.
There are missing
metal.
There are affordable housing units in this project. Yeah, and they're very nice, but these aren't these are this is the missing middle. It doesn't
look that different, but you'll have houses that look like this that are quadruplexes.
So right now the price in the neighborhood the prices and hand and in this in this development. Um condos are going for two and a quarter, two fifty starting. The missing middle houses are four fifty to five, and that's all relative. And the singles are from a million to two million. on this on this transect. But it's all on the same street and it's all very compatible. Um Alright. So I want to just also let you know that just because
something's multifamily, it doesn't have to be ugly. And affordable units are integrated into this apartment project and it looks very much like the traditional townhouse design that's in the blocks next to it. Um one of the things and one of the biggest lessons learned for me, we we appeared at a uh seminar given by Urban 3. Joe Minacosi was the speaker. Joe is one of the most predominant planners in the country. Uh he
is probably the top ten urbanists in our in our in our country right now. And he has a methodology that actually uses empirical analysis. To quantify the benefit andor the cost of your land use policies. Some land use policies generate a lot of revenue to the county. And he's able to use a scenario-based analysis and actually model the county's future land use and tell us if we're being responsible custodians of
the public good welfare when it comes to. Fiscal policy. So land use and fiscal are very attached, and we have a methodology that we could use to be part of our comp plan effort so we can make sure that we have a cost effective as well as a beneficial land plan in the county. And to that end, um we have contacted uh Urban Three and they would be available to present provide a lecture here to the Board, which was one of the most phenomenal lectures I've been to in
years. And he has 150 case studies of how he's worked with cities and counties to improve their financial outcome with their new master planning. So I I'd like to, you know. Tee him up and have him come to the board for a brief uh uh presentation.
Now there were a lot of other things that we visited and learned. It was uh three and a half uh days of ten hour days of intensive instruction and experience. Um heard saw some great things that we'll be sharing with you that we're gonna be utilizing here and bringing you better planning and more innovative projects. We're working on some form-based uh projects now that we're gonna For redevelopment. And one of the things that really struck me, and it was very similar to what we heard from uh the women
affairs group that was before the board and getting recognized today. You need
to know which
one. Uh they in Cincinnati they have an affordable housing project that consists of single parents raising kids. And these parents, if they're in a some type of degree or Certificate program, they get they get subsidized housing and free daycare, child care right on the premises to allow them to be empowered and to grow organically with that type of assistance. So those are you know, we could be very creative with affordable housing. It just doesn't have
to be just income qualified. We can do more things for empowerment when we do that.
quality of uh construction all in this and We need to do that priority too.
Well that's what we're working on. We're working on a traditional neighborhood development performance ordinance. If you want density, you gotta build it nice and be acceptable to the community. And secondly, we're using the form base to open up and create better opportunities. Uh Commissioner Starkey and I also went to a great uh last-minute seminar on Saturday on our way back and we We listened to the probably the most famous uh square and parks planner, urban parks planner in the country,
and we we brought back a lot of information and knowledge that we'll be introducing to you. Thank you very much. If there's any questions or any comments from the commissioner, I do I did have to use a box of tiger bomb because she wore me out so much. But I surprised
David, by chance did you get a
Participated in what you showed us?
Oh yes, matter of fact, um so we we had the opportunity to actually talk to the developers in Orton Commons. We're we have contact information on them. We talked to the architect, we talked to the developer. I went into Cincinnati to a place called Chestnut Hill the next day. I went into a redevelopment area. I talked to three developers there and two bankers. So we learned about financing, not just design, but putting together a project getting all the components and uh some of the lessons learned because mistakes were made and there was a lot of valuable insight. We
have all that information.
One of the um to me uh most important things that um I took out of this was um about the alleys because what what the developers around here have been complaining about to go to rear loaded because everything in here is rear loaded and that's what makes these communities special um is that is the costs and so they said that um Gina I'm sending you a few here They said that They
don't uh allow the fire trucks in the alleys. And their alleys are twelve feet wide. Uh but um Because they do a safety A safety action plan for the whole community. And they give it to the fire department. And every house can be accessed by a fire truck in the front. And there are a few that are on a muse, and a muse is is when the house is on a green space and you have to walk to it. You park somewhere
else and you kind of walk to it. And in those instances, and I think there were like eight or ten, they have um hardened the grass on the other sides on each side of the twelve foot alley so that a fire truck ha goes in the back. that it doesn't damage the the grass and they can get in there safely and put out a fire. So I I've I've said this all along. I don't know why we have these rules in this county with the fi with the fire department that they have to have a twenty-five foot driveway
in the back I mean alley in the back when there's a road in the front. We don't require conventional front loaded houses to have another access for the fire truck in the back and we shouldn't be double charging um good design. You know, we we're we're hurting ourselves by by having this this um land use requirement or whatever, development requirements. And
Commissioner Starkey recorded the comments of the uh architect as she walked them through alleys. Yeah.
So um this is a row of um lower priced houses that were came in at two this you were gone when I went when we went on this
house here?
All of these. They they they came in at about two fifty. These ones actually kind of back up to the highway. So um and they had the same d builder come in and took all eight units and um I just think they're so attractive but they they made it affordable. Uh next picture.
Pretty nice.
Yeah.
For two hundred and fifty K?
Yeah, now they're worth like four hundred. Um this wha what's another picture, Gina?
No. Um
I'm not gonna go through all mine 'cause it's late. I just Oh I know it. But I wan I was gonna show you that senior senior living
Um
Uh so that's the senior living. When I said you were looking at the the one side of it, this is the other side. So it's right above shops and restaurants. And offices.
And if you notice all the buildings uh screen out parking. There is surface parking, there are no parking decks but you can't see it.
All the parking is behind and they wrap it with with um housing or shops and and they have what they call skinny housing, so it's that's where some of the less expensive housing is and they're they're narrower buildings. Um but But I didn't send all the pictures. Anyway, i it was it was a really good thing. That's the senior housing
right there.
Yeah, that's that's another picture of the senior housing. They have this outside deck up there on that second floor. And there's offices underneath.
And and they do have workforce housing. Um we didn't see a picture of it, but they have income restricted housing built into this as well.
When we visited there was nobody there, they were all working.
So we we look forward to uh bringing Urban Three here and You sure we
weren't working from home?
And I th the property appraiser wants to be notified uh when Urban Three is coming 'cause he's very interested because the property appraiser values was very much a big discussion.
Yeah, the discussion specifically was uh a lot of cities and counties are leaving a lot of money on the table with their ad valorem taxes. Yeah. Because of the proliferation of buy to rent, uh those homes are being Of value through the appraisal process is residential, but they're really income-producing properties. And we kind of kind of stress tested that idea. We looked at a couple of the publicly traded companies that own properties here in Pasco and rent the houses out. And they use
the income approach for their balance sheets on their quarterly filings. So the uh the thesis is if we deal with it as income producing property, we'll we're we'll probably be annuring tens of millions of dollars in additional tax revenue uh with uh bill the bill to rent and and and to buy to rent. So that's just an idea that we're gonna bring forth.
Anyway, we'll we'll look forward to his visit.
Yes ma'am Thank you very much. Is that it?