Lake Worrell Acres, PVAS No. 3353 (Regular) — Board of County Commissioners — Board Initiated Public Hearing — $477,299.00

2:56:53Item P fifty seven was published in the Tampa Bay Times on February twenty-fourth, twenty twenty one.

2:57:00This is uh PWL 21-0023 Lake War Acres, Spevas number 3353. This is also one of the 2015-16 storm damage roads, which was temporarily repaired with um Chipseal. Uh this is a board-initiated project. There are two streets in this um In this project, their count maintained 91 lots, 46.39 ERUs. The estimated project cost is $477,300. Maximum cost per ERU

2:57:30is $10,288. The discounted amount is $96,575. And the maximum cost per ERU after the discount is $7,966.

2:57:44The repayment period is 10 years and the interest rate is uh 3.25%. This is a location map for both roads and um this is Cameo Drive at sunrise and um cameo drive.

2:58:03I'm I'm done.

2:58:08Is there any public is there any public comment?

2:58:12Uh no one is on WebEx and no emails for P fifty seven.

2:58:17Move to approve. Anybody at the kiosks to speak to this item?

2:58:23Moved to approve P fifty seven. Second.

2:58:26Wait a minute.

2:58:27Yeah. I'm sorry.

2:58:29I'm waiting. I asked for it but I haven't received anything.

2:58:35Anybody at the kiocks?

2:58:37Yes. Yes.

2:58:39Amen. Just speaking for this item

2:58:42P for this item fifty seven.

2:58:43For Lake Warrell Acres, P fifty seven. P fifty seven. Yes.

2:58:49Okay.

2:58:51My name's Frank Baylock. I'm at the [address removed]. Um this uh the picture that you you just showed on Sunrise, that's not gonna be repaired under this uh Yeah. I get because all the debris and stuff you see on the road is coming from World onto Cameo. And uh can't uh World's not being done, Adonis is not being done, and I know a lot of the residents are not in in having this project done.

2:59:21Um it's not gonna use the flooding. that caused image in the first place. It's uh You know, re paving it was gonna fix the floor. Raised the anger from a foot to two feet. Yeah. Keep it out of thought zone. Okay. I don't know. You know, and I'm being assessed twice on two different lots that are side by on this project and I don't even uh have property on those uh roads that

2:59:51are being paved, but I'm being assessed twice for the project.

2:59:58Okay.

2:59:59So um Mr. Chairman

3:00:01Mariano Okay. Is that the end of your comments, sir?

3:00:07Yes.

3:00:07Thank you for your comments. Well did we get it back? Did he get me else there to speak?

3:00:13Did he give his name and address?

3:00:15Yeah.

3:00:17I don't think so.

3:00:18I can give it to you again. It's Frank Bayonet Point.

3:00:21Oh, that's right.

3:00:21I can own the property over at [address removed].

3:00:25[address removed]. Okay, thank you. All right. Thank you.

3:00:27Thank you, sir.

3:00:30Is anyone else here to speak to this matter?

3:00:35There's no one else at the kiosk.

3:00:37All right, thank you. Okay.

3:00:42Mr. Chairman Mariano.

3:00:46Now is this one a um board initiated

3:00:49Yes, this is the storm damage board initiated. These were the roads that were chip sealed, d these two roads were chip sealed and we were directed to bring it back as board initiated projects.

3:00:59There are only two roads in in the whole

3:01:02project? We only did the ones that were chip sealed. The other ro roads are mentioned, Laurel Drive, it's unpaved. Um so if we're gonna go do the paving, we'd have to go through with the the whole Swift Motor exemption entire process. Versus with the previous project, it was easier to include it because it was already paved.

3:01:21Right.

3:01:22Can we see the map

3:01:22again?

3:01:25Um No. I typically go along most of the time, you know, with obviously the commissioner of the district because they're the ones that are meeting with the residents and doing the typically the community meetings and things like that and stuff. I'll s I'm still not a big fan of board initiated. That's why you've never seen me in seven years bring one from my district here. I don't I don't have you seen me bring one from my district? No, sir. No, I haven't. I never brought one forward. Um just want to make sure I was right.

3:01:56No, no, I don't but no no but I don't. But but I don't.

3:02:03Yeah, if you go through all those areas or not. Um, I'm just m typically more of a fan of letting the residents vote. And if it's over fifty percent, it's over fifty percent. If it's not, it's not. That's just me though, you know. But I typically let me you know, this is not a debate of what I'm just giving my statement and my feeling on it. I understand. But I typically go along with it, what the district commissioner says because they know the area better than I do too. So, you know, I again if if the district commissioners feel it's this is needs to move forward, I mean I'll I'll play along, but

3:02:34Okay.

3:02:37Well

3:02:38this is different.

3:02:38I understand what you're talking about, but the fact of it is we have roads that really need to be Paved. They keep voting 'em down like you're talking about. And the fact of it is they keep complaining to us about repairing the roads or fixing the roads and never anything done, but it keeps being boated down in the process. And there's no other way unless you get to commission.

3:02:59No, and I I and I don't disagree with you on those hard. Yeah, and I don't disagree with those issues and I think that's uh just a way of you know and it doesn't always work of communicating going, Okay, this is the option. If you don't take the option it's not gonna be done. Right. But don't come back to me and ask for it to be done thirty minutes, thirty you know, but I get what you're saying too. Yeah.

3:03:18Okay, Mr. Thank you. Because None of you were here except for Commissioner Mariano was when the hurricane hit.

3:03:26Mm-hmm.

3:03:27I d I need you to remember this. I need you to remember this for Crane's roost. And I need you to remember this for this one. This is different and he said it. What happened, just so you all know the story, is that we got federal money that we could do anything we wanted to in the county within a certain um department. And We chose these roads were in really, really bad shape. Okay. They were full of potholes. Step back

3:03:54step back a little bit more in the history though.

3:03:57Okay. Well let me just

3:03:58say that these were all the communities that came forward and said to us We can't get mail service, we can't get garbage service, we can't because their roads had been flood damaged.

3:04:10Right. And we tried to get C help from FEMA. For these roads. Because um you know, with C D B G some a D R some kind of money and um because these roads were undrivable after the hurricane. They were undrivable because they were in such bad shape. And FEMA took a look at our Google Earth and said We are not fixing those roads because they were

3:04:40so bad. That's right. We're not you know, that was your responsibility. That wasn't because of this storm. They were so bad That you know, uh I don't know what that rule is and I'm kinda speaking your language, but I mean the roads were so bad FEMA wouldn't help us. But we took I don't know how many million dollars we got where we could have done storm s stops flooding and do other things, but this board made a decision because these people could not even drive home. They couldn't have

3:05:10the bus, they couldn't have the mail, they couldn't have the garbage trucks. They went through the county and they picked, they said, these are the roads that are so bad. This is emergency, emergency chip seal. It's temporary, but we're gonna spend the other residents' money in this county on these roads with the gay that and we all agreed we would do that, and there would be board-initiated PVAS's on. when the time came. I'm shocked they've

3:05:41lasted this long. I that Chip seal, how long does that normally last?

3:05:45It'll be typical about four years. So we're about to end up

3:05:50so one there one big storm from having those roads explode again. And I know that Commissioner Oakley.

3:06:03And I'm not kidding you that those roads look like a bowl of oatmeal. Yeah. Lumpy oatmeal.

3:06:09Mm-hmm.

3:06:10And so th this is not this isn't This isn't out of the right-of-way. I don't know what to say. This is this is something we all agreed that we were gonna do and there really shouldn't be any discussion up here because we took money that could have gone to other things and these people have had this benefit. For four years. And that was the deal and now the the it's time to, you know, do what we needed to do way back before the storm ever hit. So I

3:06:40gotta say it's not it's not

3:06:43What year

3:06:43so what year

3:06:44stormw what year store

3:06:45are you talking about?

3:06:47Two fifteen and sixteen.

3:06:49Charlie, the ABCs maybe. It was I'm

3:06:53saying

3:06:54the pictures.

3:06:57We can find the pictures because the governor came and we took him to some of those roads. The road that Cindy Jolly lives on, wherever that is. I tried to find it in my maps when we were in Tallahassee, but I don't have the picture anymore in the iCloud. But That is why we d chip field. We did it in Southern Oaks. We did it in Crane's Roost. And how much did you spend? How many millions of dollars did we spend?

3:07:22a million?

3:07:31But we're almost to reach the or we're past

3:07:34the what 1.8

3:07:36Yeah, so we we took our federal money and that's what we used it on as a band-aid for these roads.

3:07:41It wasn't federal money. It was we that that was money that we got from the BP law. BP settlement. Oh, okay. And it and it s had no Oh had no strings on it. The stuff that we got from the litigation that we joined in on had no strings when it came back to us, unlike the restore money that did have strings.

3:08:03So so we used money that could go somewhere else to put these band aids on with the agreement that it would be board initiated when the time came. And I'm telling you The The roads were in really bad shape and that's why they blew up. So that people think they're driving on a good road. But they're one big storm from driving on Oakwheel. So Okay, Commissioner Fitzpatrick.

3:08:26Mr. Chairman Mariano. I

3:08:28was born.

3:08:30Just a minute. Go ahead, Ms. Fitzpatrick.

3:08:34Oh, Commissioner Mariano can.

3:08:38Okay, thank you. Um And you know This The previous board made a great decision doing something for those roads. Something had to be done. Uh we could have gone a full paving assessment then. We decided not to go the other way. Uh with the money allocated, it's the way it fit in the budget. Could have gone the other way. I think, you know, it's been so long and I think better decisions are made when you involve the people to what's going on. Uh just in Crane's roost the discussion uh that came up with everything didn't get chip sealed over on cranes roost, a couple of got regul different

3:09:09type of pavement. Now they're gonna get pulled out. That discussion point, had we not had that, we would have made a bad decision. Uh with this project here, uh with just even one person coming up, Mr. Frank Baylaw, talking about how he's affected on a couple of roads that aren't getting paved in part part of the project, maybe we need to look at the whole project. And with a brand new commissioner for the area, uh, she's already gonna have a a few public area meetings coming up. I think it benefits her and her citizens, as well as all of us, to let her go have some public

3:09:39meetings out there to find out do we want to do just the roads will be chip sealed, or do we do these other two roads together, have a discussion, and then bring it in for the people to let them see. Even if we go through all that process and the board still decides. decides they want to do it, the board has the power after that public hearing process to make it board initiated and just pull the trigger anyway. But I think it serves the people better if we do have that discussion all the way through.

3:10:04Mr. Chairman Mariano.

3:10:05Ms. Darkey?

3:10:06Um I don't know what conversations happened at the meeting. Uh I'm guessing they had these conversations at the meeting. Um I take a different view than Commissioner Moore. Um And I I th probably I'm more with Commissioner Oakley on these roads. Frankly, I think if staff is bringing us a road that's in really bad shape, it's because the road is in really bad shape and the taxpayers of Pasco County are paying for it to repeatedly fix until the next rainstorm comes and pops those potholes out. I

3:10:37I had to fight really hard for two years and to raise the five cent gas tax so that we could get the money to fix the potholes, because back then it was taking sixty days to fit a p fit a pothole. I personally You know, I think it's a good idea. I don't wanna keep throwing money out the window on a pothole. I I trust the staff that if they're bringing us a road that's in bad enough shape I don't even know why we do a vote. I think they should bring us so many roads

3:11:07a year and let's just Sorry, you live on that road? There's a responsibility. to fix the road. I don't wanna keep paying for your road because you don't wanna pay for it. And that's what happens. When they don't fix their roads, we all pay for it. So As far as I'm concerned, if you fail a PVAS, we don't fix your potholes anymore. Y'all take it on yourself to get some cement and go out there or whatever. Fill your own holes. That's where I am looking at.

3:11:33P fifty seven I think had a motion in in a second.

3:11:37You

3:11:37have

3:11:37a motion?

3:11:39I think

3:11:39I made a motion to to

3:11:41P fifty seven.

3:11:42To do P fifty seven. I'll second.

3:11:45Yeah, I got a motion of a second. Um

3:11:50Roll Cov.

3:11:51Roll Coba.

3:11:52District two, Commissioner Oakley. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Hi. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.

3:12:02Nay.

3:12:03District One, Chairman Oakley.

3:12:05Night.

3:12:06Hmm.

3:12:08Motion fails three, two. Okay, move on to uh

3:12:14The next CPU. So what happens with that that one then? Then uh the the road falls apart? Because I don't want to go in there and fix it. And then

3:12:23I think taking the suggestion, Commissioner O Mariano made about looking

3:12:26at the easy.

3:12:26On rural that closed and look at those two roads the gentleman spoke about and then bringing it back.

3:12:30That's

3:12:31an unpaved

3:12:31road. So then that would be a can can we reverse that and make a continuance for that one to be continued for staff to look in.

3:12:39Do you have to reopen anybody who is on the prevailing side of that motion could reconsider it if they wish to have it continued rather than denied.

3:12:49Would you be more likely to reconsider if staff can go back and make sure all the roads that need to be included are included? Mm-hmm. Or not included if they were not chip sealed. Because we only have one opposition on that.

3:13:03Well I I'm gonna refer back to Commissioner Mariano because he made a he made a pretty good statement when he referred to the some of the roads that gentlemen was talking about and

3:13:11I don't have a problem with that.

3:13:15He's on

3:13:16War

3:13:16Elfers. He's on this one too. Mr. Mariano.

3:13:21Yes, uh and Commissioner Fitzpatrick, comfortable if you want to have a go have a public hearing with these people and get a better decision and which way to go and then However we take it to a vote or not take it to a vote, but at least get with the people and find out what they want to do and then you can put the new numbers together if that means including the roads. Uh I'm happy to go that way. It might be just as quick to start afresh. But I'm if that it's not what you want me to do, I'll do that for you.

3:13:45So then P fifty seven will go back and then no. We need

3:13:49to ask the commissioner if he's it reconsider. Commissioner has asked you a question. If you're if that's you're answering him yes, then will Commissioner Mariano reconsider the previous motion. So

3:14:02Commissioner Mariano, would you reconsider the previous motion if I go back in because I know what the other ones I have, so Would you reconsider?

3:14:10Yes, I will. I will reconsider. Move move to reconsider. Thank you. Okay. So

3:14:16Okay, under discussion. No, no, under discuss under discussion.

3:14:23I can ask a question under discussion so we all know what we're voting on. Ainsley, War World is an unpaved road.

3:14:31That's correct. And so is Adonis.

3:14:33And Adonis. So when you add Uh unpaved road to be paved. Who pays for that?

3:14:42Other property owners, adjourned benefited property owners.

3:14:45Okay, so am I understanding that we're asking for the folks to pay to take an unpaved road to become paved. Is that what we're gonna be doing?

3:14:55Can I can I clarify?

3:14:56Yeah.

3:14:57Um can you put back up the mouth for me please?

3:15:01'Cause talk about expensive.

3:15:04So the two horizontal white lines are Adonis and Warrell and they're unpaved. Because of the PVAS methodology and policy guidelines, the folks who are on Warrell and Adonis, although they're on paved road, they have to, they must use um uh cameo and um broad street so they are included in the assessment So what would happen if we go ahead and pave Warrell and um Adonis,

3:15:36that would be the whole uh a much longer process because you have to get a Swift Mod exemption. Also, we would um Have to determine whether or not we would have to FDR or um bring in new new you know virgin material. So the the two things are mixed in two different processes. The reconstruction is different versus the, you know, unpaved road, which is a much higher cost. But it's just something to consider that you combine in two different processes.

3:16:06So then what we would be looking at over here on the right, where you show the gentleman who spoke was getting assessed at 25%, he would be getting assessed at 25% plus a hundred percent of world drive.

3:16:21Not not if if you combine everything, what happened is that the costs go up. So he would be assessed at 100% because if we do pave world. He would be at a hundred percent. But the cost per ERU would be much higher. And also that would be spread on the folks on Cameo and their ERU would also go up.

3:16:40Well, that's what y'all think is a good idea.

3:16:44Well I think that's what they're gonna do is go back and discuss it with the

3:16:46neighborhood. But what you're voting on is reconsidering the denial of the project entirely.

3:16:54I'm gonna go back and have a public meeting. To look at those roads, 'cause I've spoken to Crane's Roost and I've been out there And I've also been out to Aristita. And that was supposed to be a microchip seal and that was Mm-hmm.

3:17:14But they wanna

3:17:14do an F D R now. Right. So Because the microchip lasts three to four years, they'd still be paying for the microchip when they would have to do the F D Right.

3:17:24So she doesn't they

3:17:25don't

3:17:25wanna do the microchip now and then come back in five years and do the F D R they'd rather just do the F D R once and not have to pay for it twice. Yeah.

3:17:31Well that's what's gonna happen here. So Yeah.

3:17:34So Mr. Chairman, you have a motion a second to reconsider now it's just to reconsider. So we need

3:17:39to take that motion and a second for reconsidering this project. And Rocal vote

3:17:46District two, Commissioner Moore. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Ay. District five, Commissioner Mariano.

3:17:56Okay.

3:17:57District One, Chairman Oakley.

3:17:59Aye. So it's five it motion pass five oh to reconsider now.

3:18:04Now may I move to continue so I can have a public meeting. There you go.

3:18:08Second. Thank you.

3:18:10Continue what day?

3:18:13April

3:18:14twentieth.

3:18:16I wanna be

3:18:17backed up.

3:18:17We're gonna have a long April twentieth. We're putting

3:18:20back on long

3:18:23to think about continuing these different things.

3:18:26Is that

3:18:26the right time to do it April twentieth?

3:18:28You might wanna Mr. Chairman. I don't but at the same time just I'm t I'm looking out for Commissioner Fitzpatrick here for a second. Um You have a couple of these already continued. You just a suggestion for your own well being. You might want to spread these out a little bit or you're gonna be very busy for about a week. And you might not have time to do all that.

3:18:50I think it's a good move. Second.

3:18:52Yeah.

3:18:52Thank you.

3:18:53Yeah.

3:18:54Day eighteenth at one thirty P. M. We're assuming there's a

3:18:59motion and second. Uh those in favor, roll call vote.

3:19:03Commissioner Moore.

3:19:05Aye.

3:19:05District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Fitzpatrick. Aye. District five, Commissioner Mariano.

3:19:12Aye.

3:19:12District One, Chairman Oakley.

3:19:14Aye. Motion passed five zero. And

3:19:16AC those are those the last of the chip seal we did with that extra No, we have a few more?

3:19:20There are two more. Two more. Okay.

3:19:22Are these the last two?

3:19:23No. We said there's two more. Two more. Okay. Okay, now we'll go through. After we get through today there are two more.

3:19:29Find those pictures from the past. The governor was here. Sorry, the pictures of the roads before we chip sealed.

3:19:37Okay.

3:19:38I know there's

3:19:41I've also taken photos of the one neighborhood on the roads that should probably be included. And I believe my aide has already submitted those. So if you want to pull them up there for Yellow Lake and Share and drive.

3:19:54Oh okay. You're right.

3:19:57Photos.

3:19:58You're supposed to be right. Yeah.

3:19:59Christie's arma. It would be restoring damage

3:20:03for Dharma. Yeah. That was Arma. Remove.

3:20:12I'm gonna text Cindy Jolly She was

3:20:15Okay.

3:20:16These are the ones on Sharon.