PDD-23-0009

Every appearance4 of 5 are in a recording

Each appearance carries the official title above. Where the county’s wording changed, the change is marked: added and removed. Steps with no marks were worded identically.

TranscriptWhat was said at each appearance is below it. Machine transcription, with speaker names inferred from voice matching. 85% of 2,349 lines carry a name. It shows what was said, not what was decided, and both the words and the names can be wrong. 1 of the 5 appearances are not in any recording, so what was said at those is not here.

1. 1Dec 6, 2022
   Board of County CommissionersP105Public hearingContinued

   An Ordinance Amending The Pasco County Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan; Providing For A Plan Amendment (Continuance) - CPAL 22(06) Saddlebrook Resort - Transmittal of Proposed Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment To The creating Subarea POLICY FLU 7.1.66, creating Future Land Use Map (Map 2-9, sheet 66, Amending Future Land Use Map (Maps 2-15 And and Sheet 22) From from RES-6 (Residential-6 Du/Ga) To (RESIDENTIAL 6 DU/GA) to PD (Planned Development) On Approximately 420.37 (PLANNED DEVELOPMENT) on approximately 420.47 Acres Of of Real Property Property, Located To The South Of of S.R. 54 And and East Of of Service Road And A Text Amendment Creating Subarea Policy FLU7.1.66 – Saddlebrook Resort; And A Map Amendment To The Future Land Use Map 2-9 Adding Subarea Map 2- 9(66) Saddlebrook Resort; And Providing For Additional Text Amendments As Necessary For Internal Consistency; Providing For A Repealer, Severability, And An Effective Date Road.

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue the item to the February 7, 2023 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City and to direct Staff to bring the item to the January 5, 2023 Planning Commission meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City and to readvertise with both matters.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:30:42
   ▶ 1:30:4211m

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:30:42Sag it. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. P 105, do we have proof?

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:30:48Yes, Mr. Chairman item P one oh five was published in the Tampa Bay Times on August third, twenty twenty two and by affidavit of site postings.

   Ron Oakley

   1:30:56Item P105 is a large scale comprehensive plan amendment, PDD 230009. It's CPEL 2206, Saddleburg Resort. It's a transmittal of a proposed large scale comprehensive plan amendment creating sub-area policy flu 7.1.66, creating future land use map 2-9 sheet 66. Amending future land use map, maps 2-15 and sheet 22 from res 6, residential 6 dwellings per gross acre to PD Plan Development on approximately 420.47 acres of real property

   1:31:26located south of Stable 54 and east of service road. Z in the agenda memo it's requested to continue to January 10, 2023 at 130 in Date City, but in consultation with the applicants and their agreement, the request is to continue to February 7, 2023, at 130 PM in Date City.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:31:46And before I ask for this motion, I want to just bring out a point uh from residents. Um They had A series of public hearing. And

   1:31:59Mm. Uh I've talked with her about it and talked to the residents. They were very uncomfortable with the way the po the posting was done with the rezoning. I got a ton of phone calls across the board on the item. Um The unclearness of what was going to happen even with that um was not made to them. So I don't feel, frankly, that the Planning Commission got a good hearing, and those are some experts we have on there to take a look at everything for us. I would like to even see how

   1:32:29the board feels but I really think this thing should go back to the Planning Commission before it comes back to us as well. So I want to throw that out there with what I know. I think we've all got emails on it. Because of the changes they've made. Because the changes are but the even even more importantly, the unclearness of whatever. They had limited amount of public hearing on it, that not everybody got to do it. They didn't get to do it in person. And if ever there's a place in the planet that should be able to accommodate a public hearing, I would think it would be Saddleburg Resort. So I want to share that with you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:33:00The

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:33:00neighborhood

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:33:00meeting. Not the public hearing.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:33:02Yeah, yeah, yeah. The neighborhood meeting, I'm sorry. Yeah, the neigh neighborhood meeting for everybody to come to. And I think they should do it all at once where everybody's in there hearing the whole thing. So I I feel that way. Um I just wanted before we make this continuous and I do appreciate that you're willing to move it back for us, uh accommodate the signs as well. So I do appreciate what you've done, Barbara, don't get me wrong. But I just think with the people, just the extra feedback I keep getting that they feel that they weren't uh the voices weren't heard from the get go. So I wanna know what you guys think. If you'd think that way as well, then

   1:33:32we can have a comment.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:33:35Harbor Bell Height 6327 Grand Boulevard, Newport Ritchie, 34652. We've done a lot. This is a process, and uh we've been going through that process. The over the summer the client started with um meetings with the Homeowners Association, the boards, I think there's four. Um it started with that the boards. Then they went in and did virtual meetings. There was an issue with one of the meetings in Fairway Village with the number of people that you could be on Zoom. They did another virtual meeting. They're getting ready to do um

   1:34:06another in-person round of meetings. This this and they're working through the HOAs. to set those up because that's how the boards want them set up. The boards themselves want to give out the notices to their residents as opposed to giving out a list that we would send to, that my client would send to. All the information that's is always the same when he presents for different boards. So he's getting ready to do in-person meetings this month. So we feel we'll be ready for the board in well probably in January, but um we have agreed to February.

   1:34:36We followed all the process um in the code and the Com plan. We're reaching out to people, everybody's getting the information. So we'd like to continue on the schedule that we're on. We agreed instead of January to February. And uh we're gonna continue this process and continue meeting with people um and working with them and we've are coming back to meet with you all, trying to get those meetings to keep you up to date along the way uh with what we've been doing because we have been making changes, we have been listening and um some pretty significant things that we've been talking to with There's

   1:35:07two of the HOAs that are represented by Council, so I work with their council so that's a

   1:35:14We do want to stay on schedule because we did follow all the rules.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:35:17Uh so Barbara, I I appreciate what you're doing and and I don't I'm not implying that you you guys did anything Wrong per se, just the way it was done. Is not satisfactory to the residents that I've talked to. And I do think that if we're gonna hear a if if they're gonna hear a presentation. Everybody affected should be in the same room, the same presentation in a in a meeting. Whether they want to do it separately, that's that's extra. But everybody sh in the whole community should be hearing it at the same time what's going to be done. And when the questions were asked didn't

   1:35:47get answers is even more reason to go back to everybody. Well

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:35:51they

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:35:51but more hang on. More importantly, whatever is going to get submitted to what's going to go on out there, that should be part of the presentation that the Planning Commission hears. And there was a lot of unclarity. Frankly The way it's set, it's a very unique setup. But for Frankly. Is this to go forward to be even on consent from before? It should never have gone that way in my opinion. But the Planning Commission, I feel, needs to hear a full presentation. And the people should be able to come into the Planning Commission. Let them ask the questions of these folks that we appoint.

   1:36:22that represent us to be that extra layer of of protection for the folks to to get the public hearing process done, to let them get heard. So I I I'm gonna I'll request it now

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:36:32Well look can I ask a question because Sure if staff can I see Terry's looking at his phone, he's probably looking at dates. If if we can have a planning commission hearing in January, still come to the board in February because we need to do these meetings. I'm okay with I'm okay with

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:36:46that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:36:47So I don't want to keep pushing it and pushing and actually if you keep pushing it, it actually makes it worse because then there's gaps and then people don't know, you know, then like, Well what's going on with the hearings? And so if we

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:36:57Yeah, time wise I'm o I'm okay. I'm I'm okay with the January meeting. If you can get in planning commission, I'm okay with that. Uh long as you get your meeting done ahead of time

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:37:04too. Yeah.

   Ron Oakley

   1:37:09I think we can you know it's December sixth, so I think we can manage a uh planning commission In January. Probably the first

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:37:18Whichever one's in Dade City.

   Ron Oakley

   1:37:19Yeah, the first meeting of January. Generally

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:37:23five.

   Ron Oakley

   1:37:24Generally five.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:37:25Okay. No I'm very glad you're saying that. Uh I think that people would be happy with that and I think that that would work for me. And that wouldn't snu wouldn't slow the process down either.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:37:35I'm fine with that. I'm very confident that uh the things that my clients are my clients doing. Um that we'll see. have um a lot of buy in actually as we go forward. We just got a lot going on and uh we're really working hard on it so I have no problem going back. Um I guess that's what you'll do is you'll because it's your hearing today you just refer it back to Planning Commission. I guess that's the motion, but you've got your attorney here.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:37:57Let me see from our county attorney how we should like to s how we how he sh recommends we handle it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:38:04So the c I guess the question becomes i i you can continue your board meeting date to the date in February with direction to the applicant to hold an an additional planning commission meeting on January fifth.

   Sally Sherman

   1:38:22Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:38:24Otherwise you're gonna have to start over with a board ad and I don't really if you remand it to Planning Commission, then you're gonna start over readvertising it.

   Stephanie Rose

   1:38:33Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:38:33Okay.

   1:38:37So it's the so this this meeting would be this hearing would be continued to the February seventh Porter County Commissioner's meeting in Dade City, is that at one thirty or soon thereafter as they may be heard.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:38:56Okay. Did we take public comment? comment?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:38:57We don't have

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:38:58to continuance. Okay. Now how do

   1:39:00we add

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:39:01you

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:39:01wanna make the motion?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:39:02Uh hang on for a second. How do we add in about the planning commission to hear it as well. Or do we have to?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:39:08And with with direction to staff to bring this matter to the

   1:39:15January 5th

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:39:15Planning Commission. I just want to ask the question of how are we gonna notice the planning commission meeting because the code just changed today. So I wanna

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:39:23I will do a full notice. We have seven hundred people we need to notice to. We've have a third party company who's gonna do any of the notices. We are waiting for today. to get no re notices out so we now know what to notice. So we'll do that immediately. So

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:39:36you can add a better in the same piece of paper and send it all up together.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:39:39What was that?

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:39:40You can do do both of them together in the same notice.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:39:42Yes. Perfect. And we'll repost and the additional sign that we talked about, Commissioner.

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:39:46Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:39:47And uh We will go from there.

   Seth Weightman

   1:39:49Excellent.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:39:50All right. Thank

   Seth Weightman

   1:39:51you, Ms. Wohite. Uh make motion to send the items to the Planning Commission in January and we'll see it See this back again in February. January fifth. January fifth. And then back to the fifth. Commissioner

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:40:02Oakley. Can you move the The dates are important in your motion. So so it would be it I Move to continue the board meeting the board hearing on this matter to February seventh, twenty twenty-three. at one thirty or soon thereafter a same may be held And direct and Have the matter referred back to Planning Commission on the January

   1:40:32fifth. Um twenty twenty three. Planning commission date. With advert with advertising of both matters.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:40:44Is that your motion?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:40:45I adopt Mr. Steinschneider's verbiage.

   Gary Bradford

   1:40:49But I'd like to see him repeat that.

   Kathryn StarkeyChair

   1:40:53I

   Gary Bradford

   1:40:53was looking for a so

   Jack MarianoVice Chair

   1:40:54move, but you could have a good idea.

   1:40:58All right. Uh a motion, second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Barbara, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

   1:41:10And thank you both for entertaining my conversation on that.

2. 2Jan 5, 2023
   Planning CommissionRES6Public hearingNo disposition in the minutes

   An Ordinance Amending The Pasco County Comprehensive Plan; Providing For A Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment To The Future Land Use Map (Map 2-15 And Sheet 22) From RES-6 (Residential-6 Du/Ga) DU/GA) To PD (Planned Development) On Approximately 420.37 549.39 Acres Of Real Property … And East Of Service Road Road; And A Text Amendment Creating Subarea Policy FLU7.1.66 FLU 7.1.66 – Saddlebrook Resort; And … 2-9 Adding Subarea Map 2- 9(66) 2-9(66) Saddlebrook Resort; And Providing … As Necessary For Internal Consistency; Providing For A Repealer, Severability, And An Effective Date Consistency

   Open this item →No recording
3. 3Feb 7, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP50Public hearingContinued

   An Ordinance Amending The Pasco County Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan; Plan Amendment (Regular) - CPAL 22(06) Saddlebrook Resort PD - Providing For A Large-Scale Transmittal Of The Proposed Large- Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment To … Land Use Map (Map 2-15 2- 15 And Sheet 22) From RES-6 (Residential-6 Du/Ga) DU/GA) To PD (Planned Development) On on Approximately 420.37 Acres Of 549.39 acres of Real Property Located To The located to the South Of S.R. 54 And and East Of of Service Road And A Road; and a Text Amendment Creating creating Subarea Policy FLU7.1.66 FLU 7.1.66 – Saddlebrook Resort; And A and a Map Amendment To to The Future Land Use Map 2-9 Adding adding Subarea Map 2- 9(66) 2-9(66) Saddlebrook Resort; And and Providing For Additional for additional Text Amendments As Necessary For Internal Consistency; Providing For A Repealer, Severability, And An Effective Date as necessary for internal consistency.

   Approved minutes

   Approved to continue the item to the April 4, 2023 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 19:59
   ▶ 19:595h 34m

   Nectarios Pittos

   19:59modified one, or that was previously created, I should say, was modified one time in 1992 following the comprehensive plan to increase the approved commercial acreage by two plus acres for sports science. Center that was proposed at that time but was never built. Uh the proposed amendment to to uh that is before the Board of County Commissioners today for transmittal to DEO is to consider a PD plan development and it is intended to essentially clean up the conflict between the non-residential uses approved

   20:29in the MPUD from 1986 and add a parcel that I'll show in a subsequent slide here. Terry, if you was Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   20:38When you say clean up the conflict between non residential users approved in the M P D, what exactly are you talking about?

   Nectarios Pittos

   20:44Well right now the area is entirely Res Six. So everything, the golf course, all of the uh resort amenities, et cetera, all of it is Res Six residential six. And

   Jack MarianoChair

   20:56aren't they compatible uses with Res Six? I'm sorry? Aren't they all compatible uses in Res

   Nectarios Pittos

   21:01Six? They have existed under uh the future land use since nineteen eighty nine.

   Jack MarianoChair

   21:07And I w I mean we approved it or it was approved by a previous board as such. Was there a any problem with what you approved what was approved?

   Nectarios Pittos

   21:15Uh th there are uses that are currently in the Saddleburgh Resort that typically wouldn't be found in a Red Six future land use. Copy.

   Unidentified speaker

   21:23Yeah.

   Nectarios Pittos

   21:26Um you wouldn't approve a hotel when they're not sure. The proposed the proposal here is to amend the future land use map to PED uh for a portion of the existing Saddlebrook M P U D area and to allow for a mixed use multifamily development along State Road 54 and renovations of the existing golf course recreation hotel uses that are that are there. Um the location is uh at about State Road 54 and east of the service road. Um

   21:52And then it's a send there will be a rezoning associated with this uh in follow-up to to any comprehensive plan amendment uh that the board may up may approve. Uh that zoning amendment has been filed concurrently with the comprehensive plan amendment to overlap. And it is for an M P U D. So the following are policies uh that uh have been compared against the proposed use, finding the proposed use to be consistent with the comprehensive plan, proposed use change, consistent with the comprehensive plan.

   22:25Uh this i this area is uh Located as I as I said on the south side of State Road 54 at approximately what will be eventually at one point the ne the southeast corner of the new intersection of Bruce Bowns and State Road 54. And that will be see if this works. Right about this location here. So this is this is all located on the southeast. And the area in red is the subject property that the proposed

   22:55comprehensive plan amendment would be applicable to. And then the additional parcel that's being added is this one right here, located further east of the main entrance of Saddlebrook.

   23:09So on the south side of several fifty score.

   23:14Uh this is uh uh uh an easier image to see the area that's uh subject to the proposed land use change.

   23:24So everything in pink is what would be uh P D. Uh this is the area the proposed area for land use change. Uh and we're showing the existing future land use that is currently overall uh all of the saddlebook area. So this is showing everything in res six. And then if a comprehensive plan amendment were to be approved and and the planned development would be applied, this is what it would look like on the map. And

   23:55so everything in yellow then is the P D.

   24:01Uh this is a uh a concept plan that illustrates uh some of the uses um that are or the develop redevelopment areas that would have some of the uses that they're proposing in the sub-area policy that's attached to the uh agenda memo. Uh this is area one. Located up here. And this is where the mixed-use trip reduction measure area is proposed to be, which would be handled in the MPUD discussions. This is area

   24:31two, which includes multifamily townhouse office retail activities. This is the new parcel that's being added to the overall area.

   24:45And red areas here are area three in a sub-secret concept plan, which I'll put up at the end of this presentation just so you all can see it. This will be marked off as area 3A, and this will be marked off as area 3B. And then not located on or not shown on this map, but located in this area here is the new location of the driving range and the The the new concept map will show that at the end of the presentation. Uh and then finally

   25:15area four actually is I've lost my m my little mouse guy, but it's basically all of the golf course that will remain perpetual golf course areas to the pointer. All of that in between deposit housing, et cetera, will remain golf course.

   25:33And so the recommendation for today is to authorize the transmittal of the proposed comprehensive plan amendment to the Department of Economic Opportunity and other reviewing agencies at the state level. Um this is only a transmittal. This is not a final uh decision uh from the Board of County Commissioners. And then if we wait for just a second, we will show the uh the new concept plan on the on the overhead.

   Jack MarianoChair

   25:55Terry, if you would hand the thought for a second. When you say it's only a transmittal. Isn't this by sending it off to DEO that we're actually saying we approve it and we want you to check it over?

   Nectarios Pittos

   26:07I I would say no because the Department of Economic Opportunity and the other state agencies, this is their their opportunity to provide comment back to the local jurisdiction to tell them uh what might need to what might what may need to be addressed from their perspective and then we would have to consider whatever they comment back to us uh and enter potentially into a dialogue. with them to make any necessary adjustments. And then following that, once those comments have been addressed,

   26:37whether adequately or inadequately, however they get addressed, then it would come back before the Board of County Commissioners to say, do we want to adopt this? So how often do you get comments back from DEO? Um We do get comments back. I mean we we often send a lot of amendments, comprehensive plan amendments to to DEO, the m the vast majority of which we don't get many comments back, but we do get comments from DEO encouraging us to look at

   27:07things one way or another. Um sometimes uh agencies like Florida Fish and Wildlife will comment Um we do we do receive comments from the state, uh, but not on every project.

   Jack MarianoChair

   27:19And but mess like you said the vast majority you don't get comments back. Okay.

   Nectarios Pittos

   27:25This is the a new concept map that had been provided to us that clarified some of the details that have been talked about at the local planning agency recently, local planning agency meeting that happened at Believe at the beginning of January. And you can see area one here, some of the detail that's being provided on the concept plan here. And there's a series of notes. Here indicating where gates will be, etc. Access to the new road segment here that

   27:55would eventually become Bruce Bowns. This is area two over here with the townhouses and office retail equipment that I was mentioning. Probably should mention too that this is multi-family apartments proposed on this concept plan with retail office along 54. The area three A and three B uh with notations off to the side that's a I won't read from here. Um and then finally the location of the driving range here with um maintenance

   28:25facilities di identified and parking lots, etcetera.

   Jack MarianoChair

   28:30Now Terry, you said that that was shown to the Planning Commission?

   Nectarios Pittos

   28:34No, this is in response to comments from the Planning Commission for greater det the local planning agency, not planning commission, but the same body. Um, in response to some of the comments that they were making for uh l having a little bit more detail uh on the plans.

   Jack MarianoChair

   28:51Commissioner Bradford.

   Gary Bradford

   28:53Thank you, sir. So the Planning Commission has not seen this map.

   Nectarios Pittos

   28:58Uh I would say that this map reflects the Planning Commission's concerns. But they have not seen this.

   Gary Bradford

   29:04The question is they have not seen this map. It's a P D. Correct?

   Nectarios Pittos

   29:09Uh not in a uh in a in a hearing setting.

   Jack MarianoChair

   29:14Terry, ls I listened to the whole thing. It was never said the drive room was gonna go there. It was pushed off with no detail.

   Nectarios Pittos

   29:22Uh they requested the detail to show it where it would go and then this concept plan. The applicant can probably speak to it uh uh more and be more articulate about the process that brought them to this depiction. Um but from uh from my recollection the Planning Commission was asking questions on where the LPA was asking questions on where the draft Range would go and they were requesting other redevelopment information. And to my knowledge,

   29:53they were agreeable to presenting this to gathering this information and having it presented at subsequent hearings at the BCC, but certainly when they would get another crack at the at it with the MPUD.

   Jack MarianoChair

   30:06When we have an MPUD application, when we have a comprehensive plan, isn't the concept plan supposed to be started submitted at the start of this whole process?

   Nectarios Pittos

   30:14Yeah, and and we received concept plans at the beginning of the process, but it's a planning process, so it's quite normal for projects to change over time and evolve to meet the different concerns and objectives that certain, you know, interested parties might have.

   Jack MarianoChair

   30:31So one of the concerns that I have is the MP D parcel abuts on Van Dyne on 54. One of the changes that happened when the first presentation of the town hall meetings they had, which they did separately, not in a group meeting, um was the property up on Van Dyne initially was gonna going to connect with a trailer. They've since changed that. Now with no change and there's no connection, why would you include that in the M P D? Seems like you could kind of make another conflict.

   Nectarios Pittos

   31:01You you're referring to

   Jack MarianoChair

   31:02the Van Dyne piece number two. Right. Why would you include there's no connection, there's no interconnection whatsoever. It's a separate piece of property which has neighbors right beside it.

   Patrick Hogan

   31:14Right.

   Jack MarianoChair

   31:14That should be focused on exactly what's going to happen around them as opposed to Saddlebrook which is going to be internal and w wouldn't really be be a factor.

   Nectarios Pittos

   31:22Right.

   Jack MarianoChair

   31:22Why would you include that in this M PUD that has no connection?

   Nectarios Pittos

   31:28Well I think from my perspective, an M DUD is ultimately a zoning district and if uh someone wants to apply to be part of a zoning district, they can they can join the zoning district. It doesn't necessarily mean that they join the actual development. um they can share in the same kind of uh say entitlements or in the same kind of um dimensional requirements that a particular zoning district might have. It'd be no different like if

   31:58your neighbor was R4 and you wanted to zone into R4 yourself. In this case uh th they're going to participate in the same kind of uh development standards and requirements as the rest of the area. Um it's also owned by the same developer. So rather than go

   Jack MarianoChair

   32:22So with two separate things, let's face it, when you get a piece of property that's right on fifty-four, it can be looked at a lot differently because you're gonna have the in and out, it's gonna be just deal with the traffic, it's gonna happen right today. You can do your own study on just that specific specific piece. But when you have an MPUD that's got a thirty-six-hole honor palmer design golf course with a drive-in range with the schools with all sorts of amenities inside that I don't know why you'd combine those two.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   32:50Mr. Chairman Mariano. No, what's before you is not the MPUD. Just what's before you is a comp a future land use map amendment to PD. So

   33:05You're making the you're making the comments that why would you include it in the MPUD. It it may very well be included in the M PUD, but I need to get it on the record that this is not the zoning approval. This is the this is a future land use map amendment and it probably is appropriate for the larger future land use map to be changed all at the same time, rather than come in with What? probably could be done as a small scale amendment on that. Piece uh up front on State

   33:35Road fifty four.

   Jack MarianoChair

   33:37Uh and and with l with the land use amendment, it's something that staff really just looks at compatibility to make the approval, correct?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   33:45Yeah, I mean that the the there's a little more that goes into it because of this future land use classification that we have called P D. Um But if this was res six, yes, it would be is that is that future land use classification compatible what with what is next to it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   34:07Okay. And the Commission's got has the right to decide pretty much is it the right thing to do, which cut pretty much falls on us.

   Nectarios Pittos

   34:13Correct. Uh ultimate authorities with the dis at the discretion of the Board of County Commissioners. Okay.

   34:21Um and that'll complete my presentation.

   Jack MarianoChair

   34:25Okay. Any other questions for staff at this point? Um, did you do a economic study on the r on the uh resort?

   Nectarios Pittos

   34:37The the Planning and Development Department uh usually refers economic studies to To with the o we we have worked on economic studies but usually in tandem with the opposite of economic growth to do them.

   Jack MarianoChair

   34:52Okay, so I think is David Engel in the audience? So I asked Mr. Engel if he had done one and I'm gonna let him respond to what he had to work with and what he found.

   David Engel

   35:15Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Board Members. David Engel, Economic Growth Director for Pasco County. Thank you for calling me up, Chairman. Um just give you a little history. About a month ago the County Attorney's Office uh sent me an email suggesting that it would be a good idea to do an economic impact analysis and fiscal analysis of this project. I've had some. Communication with massed capital. I've also Had some discussions with a variety of homeowners that live on

   35:45the premises. And uh the study that I would be presenting would be more attuned to the MPUD. And we've started to do this analysis but we're not complete. And we also wanted to address a number of questions we had. And we've asked Mass to provide some information input. Number one, um, what's the market plan for this? Who was a consultant? What's the financial nexus between the outparcels on 54 and the internal redevelopment of the site? Why

   36:16would we construct you know, what's the rationale for reconstructing the golf course and locating the infrastructure and common areas to the resort where it is now and relocating the driving range? So Based on that, we started looking at some work and I would tell you right off the bat that the Mass project as proposed has additional economic and financial impact and benefit to the county. The commissioner uh uh that that asked me to do

   36:46a study, asked well what would be the impact if we can took the garden apartments and the uh townhouses and eliminated them from area one and replaced it with an equivalent uh full service hotel. And the conclusion of this analysis using MPLAN, we modeled it uh using the input-output data that we have, which is current to our market. The hu

   37:17the mass plan for for Area One would generate ad valorum taxes net into the general fund of $1,459,000. If the housing were to be eliminated, the hotel option would generate two million. $492 million. So the ad valorem tax pickup to the general fund converting the housing to a hotel is a 74 71% pickup.

   37:48On the contribution to the Gross County product The Mass Plan would for Area One would generate about $86 million a year to our Rose County product once it's completed. Uh excuse me. The the mass plan would generate twenty eight million dollars a year And the hotel option would generate eighty six million dollars a year. And uh so the improvement on Rose County product contribution is fifty-eight million dollars, which is a two h over two hundred percent gain. Um

   38:19so Clearly utilizing a hotel on the premises is advantageous from a fiscal standpoint as well as a gross county product standpoint. My recommendation is purely just on a vanilla standpoint. It's it has nothing to do with the merits of the development, merits of the proposal, location of land uses. And I've just begun speaking with the planning department. and working with them in a collegial fashion to come up with a an optimized idea and

   38:49plan. So I'm still waiting on Mass to provide me with the information. Um I would would add that if you are gonna consider a hotel as a viable use in the Com plan that there may have to be an alteration to the transmittal to allow for that. So um if you have any questions I'd love to answer them. So I I appreciate

   Jack MarianoChair

   39:11you doing the apples to apples comparison, so it's real basic and simple.

   39:19But over a million dollars to the Adval Arm taxes, that means the taxpayers of Pasco County saving a million dollars and fifty million dollars of gross domestic tax.

   David Engel

   39:27Well we're not saving a million, we're getting a million more.

   Jack MarianoChair

   39:29We're getting million extra revenue.

   David Engel

   39:32And the county the county economy will pick up an additional fifty eight million dollars a year doing the hotel option. Okay. Thank you for your help. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   39:45Right. Any other questions for staff? Non presentation. All right. From the applicant?

   Barbara Wilhite

   40:05I think they're looking for my PowerPoint. Barbara Wilhite, uh 6327 Grand Boulevard, Newport Ritchie, 34652 for the applicant. I have Erin Landry, Jordan Kornberg with Mass Capital with me today, Steve Henry, our transportation consultant, Justina Gale, our planner, and Bryce Swanson, our golf course architect.

   40:31I thought by a very basic beginning of the story here, why are we even here and why are we amending this comp plan? I just wanted to kind of point out high level here that we do not need to change the comp plan to add our 620 units to this project. The Comp Plan already allows for a maximum of 1,779 residential units, which can be single family townhomes and or multifamily. Why we're here is because the comp plan

   41:01is needed to allow for the resort and the commercial retail office uses. the current residential land use conflicts with these uses. You heard your plan director discuss that. The complaint also removes The residential use is currently designated for the golf course areas. It is a clean up. We went into this, I went into this. With what's the palm plan look like? And w how do we make the comp plan fit? for this resort in this area. And that's why I propose to change the

   41:31land use from Res 6 to P D. to achieve all those things. But again. For the additional residential, we do not need a Comp Plan amendment. It already is allowed by the Comp Plan. What we do need a Comp Land Amendment is to clearly provide for those resort uses that are open to the public. to remove for the benefit of the residents to remove residential land uses from their golf course areas.

   42:01And one of the questions we get are there existing remain remaining and unused entitlements in the M P D? Again, the MPD was approved in nineteen eighty six, amended one time, a very s a minor amendment. Yes, there are existing entitlements Within the Walking Village you can see there. The Walking Village is the resort area. Lakeside Village is the area where the single family homes are, and Fairway Village is where there's condos. And there's commercial. Hundred thousand square feet is currently approved in the MPUD. The total new residential units proposed is 620, the

   42:31ones remaining in the MPD is 232, so the difference is the 388 unit difference.

   42:39Community outreach has been extens extensive. Of this for this meeting there were 17,888 property owners noticed. Um both with community meeting notice. We had a round of community meetings last week, again more meetings. and public hearing for this public hearing. Community meetings were held in October, November, December, and last week. These are all the list of the meetings that started in in uh June and it went in Through last week. Um The last week ones. complied

   43:10with, fully complied with the code regarding notice, we would get ourselves in a position of How you have to notice a community meeting under the code. versus getting the information out in a timely manner. As we changed our plans, we wanted to get it to the community. As we changed things, we wanted to get it to the community. So the meetings in December, my clients said, I want to get the the I want to do these meetings and I'm like, well, you got all this you got this number of days, you got to notice the meeting. So my recommendation was them go forward with the meetings, communicate with the neighbors. And so we did that and

   43:40then we did again at the end of last week we had more meetings and those meetings last week you could attend in person in person or virtually. So there's been an abundance of meetings and opportunities for for people to engage and get information and get up-to-date information.

   43:58A lot of different changes based upon community feedback. Redevelopment Area 4 at one time was proposed proposed for 60 single-family units and 100 townhomes. Another change was a lot of this question of what are you doing, what are you doing, what are you doing And at a comp plan level we generally don't have a lot of detail at the comp plan. when we do this. So What I did was create, take the I took the PD concept plan and created what's called a PD sub area plan. Never done one before. I never

   44:28had to do one before, never was asked for the level of detail that I've been asked related to this project. So I created a P D sub area plan. A P D concept plan is not binding. This P D sub area plan is binding. It tells you a lot about what the development plans what's allowed in area one, two, three, and four. I created restricted area four, which is all the existing golf course area.

   44:54is allowed to occur there and exactly what is not and what is not allowed to occur there. Right now, all your Com plan tells you is it's approved for residential density. So I've changed your comp plan or proposing to change your comp plan to be very specific going forward as to what can occur within those golf course areas. That's an improvement. for the benefit of the residents. Um To have that kind of specificity.

   45:22And after the Planning Commission we were asked about area three, broke those down into areas three and f uh three A and three B. They wanted asked if we could provide before we came here more detail. And so we did that. And remember, mm all of these areas and all these plans have were made available to the public um to the to the neighbors. and within and then all the neighbors within 500 p feet of this boundary last week and we've continued to update them and had meetings along the way. And we revised the MPUD concept plan as as

   45:52staff showed you. One of the other things is really an MPD level of detail has to do with the access at the existing entrance. We are proposing to add another uh to add dual left. Um s and then another and a right turn lane. So that's an improvement. We Steve Henry is here and we'll speak during rebuttal I'm sure. More of an M PUD level detail, but we're just trying to get all the information out.

   46:18This is what I told you was the binding uh PD sub-area plan. I have passed that out to you so you can see that at a real time scale. It's in your packets. It's called PD Sub-area Plan and actually has more details than this slide has because if I put all the details on this slide, you would not be able to read them. So if you look at that plan You'll see that And this is the concept plan became a sub PD sub area plan. You'll see exact detail with regard to area

   46:48one and what Um uses can go there. and what their maximum square footage is and their maximum number of units. Same thing for area two, very specific. Got I get asked I I understand your question, Commissioner Mariano, Chairman Mariano, regarding this area. This was owned by the Dempsey family. Um it was acquired by my client. And if I didn't include it, I would be told I wasn't transparent, and if I did include it, I got criticized for including it. So and I also want to point out that we had proposed a connection As

   47:19required by your code here. a pedestrian and bike connection which was pushed back by the residents and we've agreed to amend our plans and our narrative to not seek that vari to seek a variation, excuse me, to seek a variation, to not include that connection. But our plans as submitted when we included this piece of property included a connection.

   47:41And then area three and four. And then excuse me, area three, A and B. And I'll go over what all those areas mean.

   47:55Area one is a village center, three point four eight six. It's to the it's the where the driving range is now. It's designed to exceed the county's Mudder M Ordinance, mixed use transportation reduction measures. It's a a very nicely planned out, mixed use, pedestrian friendly village, one of the nicer one uh ones I've seen. um restaurants with space with outdoor sitting areas, retail office space and multifamily apartments. Seventy five thousand of commercial retail and office. at

   48:25that location, thirty-five townhomes, four hundred and sixty five multifamily The multifamily have to be located behind non-residential land uses along on State Road 54. That is your policy that you've adopted for other areas of State Road 54 that say that those residential uses need to go behind non-residential uses. That policy does not apply in this location. But we have I've made it apply in this location. This is the Mudham Plan.

   48:54These are the integrated, um vertically integrated mixed use buildings here. You have apartments in a pedestrian friendly um layout. These are the town homes. This is the existing entrance. This way is north. When you look at this, you generally want to go this way is north, but that way is north.

   49:17Area two, that's the area that's being added. That's a nineteen point five two acre parcel already has it has a res six land use designation on it. We're proposing a maximum of 120 platted townhomes. Um 25,000 square feet of commercial retail office. Again, we're putting the non-residential against State Road 54 and the residential behind. um pursuant to the policy direction, general policy direction that we've heard the Board of County Commissioners express. The only access is to State Road fifty four, as

   49:47requested by the Community. That's actually an overstatement. this area will have no vehicular pedestrian. That'll actually be to your decision at the MPUD. At the request of the community, I've added that as a variation to my MPUD narrative to not have the required connectivity that your code requires. I apologize for that overstatement because that'll come to you with the MPUD and that'll be your decision to make. But fulfilling our commitment to the the homeowners that asked us not to have a connection We have included that as a variation.

   50:18This is a from the concept plan that shows you the general configuration. Townhomes, non residential in the front. Here we go. And m my team will go over area three and area four in a little more detail because it relates to the

   Jack MarianoChair

   50:33slide for a second.

   Barbara Wilhite

   50:35Oops. Hold on.

   Jack MarianoChair

   50:39Show show me the connection on that parcel there connecting to the to the right side.

   Barbara Wilhite

   50:45Two. Along this eastern boundary?

   Jack MarianoChair

   50:49Yeah, are you are you connecting to that piece of property that's right there on fronting fifty four?

   Barbara Wilhite

   50:52We are connecting to we have to connect up here.

   Jack MarianoChair

   50:55There, okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   50:56Yeah. Because that's a non residential use and this is a non residential use. No problem.

   51:03Area three, my team's gonna go through and explain area three. It's related to the resort op the resort and and what they are planning to do with the resort. So I'm gonna let them explain that. They can explain those details much better than than I can do from a land use and zoning standpoint. Area four. Area four restriction. has evolved as we have worked with the Condo Association. um and they have reacted to this language. And said, can you make this clearer, can you make that clearer? And that's why

   51:33this language has evolved since the Planning Commission is because we have a a group of of uh the board members, which are here today, I understand, from the Condo Association, have continued to revise what we can do in restricted area for.

   51:50This is the MPD concept plan.

   51:55at an MPUD level. That's why it's called an MPUD concept plan. Um And you can see there's a lot of details on here. This is a working document to communicate With both county staff and mostly with the neighbors. There are details on this plan over here about where gates go and what kind of access it's going to be, multi-use path. There are level of detail on here that have been put on here to communicate and you can see this is all relating to the the driving range which We'll we have a spl separate presentation

   52:25that will explain that to you. But this is to communicate um when people have questions and concerns, we address them and we add them to this plan. That's a level of detail that we never put on any plan before the county. But we have no problem doing that level of detail.

   Jack MarianoChair

   52:41Can you sharbor, can you show me where that maintenance shack's gonna be on the drive driver?

   Barbara Wilhite

   52:45Sure. So the And my team can explain this better, but the maintenance will go in the orange. What's currently located here? In this area. We'll come over here.

   Gary Bradford

   53:02That's what

   Barbara Wilhite

   53:02you refer

   Gary Bradford

   53:03to as a cart barn, correct?

   Barbara Wilhite

   53:04Yeah, the cart barn. Then again, let me let me have my team speak more intelligently about it. What's interesting is that because of your vision road here Your vision road actually wipes out their maintenance facilities now when you do that vision road. It's unlike anything we've ever seen, with all of the Vision Road being on their property. Division Road in and of itself makes them remove that those facilities and this is the area where they're can put them. There is a small Shed uh storage area

   53:34right here. for this operation, and they'll my team can go over that in better detail, this storage was over here. But we've had significant engagement from the condu association with these plans and they said, nope, nope, we don't think that's a good location. We've uh we evaluated with them moving it here and buffering it. So these plans haven't just been done in our, you know, back room. They've actually been evolving with the participation of the condo association.

   Jack MarianoChair

   54:04Do the people in Wygrah know they're gonna get maintenance shed back behind their property?

   Barbara Wilhite

   54:07We noticed everybody within five hundred feet of the boundary and they had their own ability to do a community meeting and attend in person or virtually.

   Jack MarianoChair

   54:15Okay. Is there any house?

   Barbara Wilhite

   54:16And it's not a it that is they can describe what that is. That is where they put turf and dirt and It's not the um facility for cart barn. but it is a f it is a facility that relates to maintaining that driving range. I will let them answer that. And they will do a much better job.

   54:37With that, uh whoever's speaking next on my team.

   Jordan Kornberg

   54:51Thank you. I'm Jordan Kornberg. I'm with Mass Capital Managing Director and Head of Acquisitions.

   54:58So I think it's important for everybody to remember what our ultimate goals are here. And we're all aligned. We want to make Saddlebrook a great community for everybody. We want it to be a world-class resort again. We want to prop up the golf academy, the tennis academy, and really all existing components of that business are our focus. So we're not singularly focused on any one piece. It's all important to us, and it all is mutually beneficial. This will create jobs, significant economic benefits for the county, and enhance the existing residents of the community, both from the offerings

   55:28that they have to experience and the values.

   55:34In terms of our experience, uh, you know, both MASK as well as our principals, including myself, uh, have significant experience across Florida and nationwide. Uh operating, owning, and investing in high-end resorts and you know high-end hotel properties. So this includes some of those examples up there, but Chica Lodge down in the Keys, the Conrad Hotel in Miami, Little Palm Island uh in the Florida Keys, Naples Grand, etc.

   56:03From a residential standpoint, we're delivering very high-end luxury residential products that are an asset to the communities that they're involved in, both for sale and for rent. Included on here is a project in Miami Beach where we've set records for you know Miami Beach sale prices. So I think it's important for everybody to know we're developing communities that are really an asset to everything. Mm-hmm.

   56:31In terms of our investment in Saddlebrook, we're very committed to Saddlebrook and really the long term uh you know, benefit of the property in our ten months of ownership to date. And I think it's important for us all to remember we've only owned Saddlebrook for 10 months. We've invested approximately five million dollars in capital improvements to the property. You know, unfortunately after 15 plus years of um lack of investment, uh that five million dollars doesn't necessarily show as you know uh really transforming the place. Uh uh I

   57:01use the term drop in a bucket, uh, but five million dollars is not an insignificant spend and if we were not committed to the long term of Saddlebrook and the resort There was no need for us to spend that five million dollars. It's been a long time since it's seen investment. You know, we didn't need to replace the roofs, we didn't need to redo all the tennis courts, we didn't need to improve the landscaping, fix the greens on properties. You know, we are doing all these things because we're committed to Saddlebrook and we're committed to the long-term benefit of Saddlebrook.

   57:31While we're doing this in the background, and we've shared a lot of these plans, we're working on a comprehensive renovation of the entirety of what exists today, that is Saddlebrook. I think as everybody knows, it's a very expansive property. So, and you know, with a with not doing a new build and renovating what's there, there's a lot of time and effort that goes into it, uh, especially given the date of this property. But our plans involve touching everything. that the eye can see. Meeting space, food and beverage facilities, lobby, pool, guest

   58:01rooms, and really making it a comprehensive resort that the golf and tennis community continue coming back to. the groups that historically came to Saddlebrook that mostly don't come back anymore will want to come back to. And then there'll be a drive-to-leisure customer that also wants to enjoy Saddlebrook, which historically has not been a big segment of the business plan. And as part of that too, we're delivering a new members clubhouse facility which historically hasn't existed as well. And sorry, lastly to on that point. We're paying for

   58:31a hundred percent of all the improvements in the public areas. So none of that is paid for by any of the residents in the community, any of the condo owners. The only portion that is paid for by anybody other than Mass is the interior of the guest rooms, which are owned by third party condo hotel owners. Although we are the largest uh we are the largest owner of rooms and so we obviously will pay our portion for the rooms that we own.

   58:55In terms of our team, we've hired EOA, which is a South Florida-based interior designer. They focus mostly on high-end projects across Florida and the Caribbean. They've done the one hotel on South Beach, the Benn and West Palm Beach, which is a new built project. I worked with them at Chica Lodge down in the Keys, Conrad Fort Lauderdale, but you know, a top-notch interior designer that we have confidence in. and based on the plans we've seen, we'll be able to bring Saddleburg back.

   59:25You know, we look at the regional comp set and all these properties are thriving right now. You know, Omni Amelie Island, PGA National, Marriott Sawgrass, the Reunion Resort. There is no reason why Saddlebrook should not be able to be compete with and really exceed these properties. And that's what our plan takes us, is for Saddlebrook to go head to head and hopefully out-compete all these properties. But today as a customer, you're really not shopping these versus Saddlebrook. And we want to make it that way again and in the past that's that's what Saddlebrook was.

   59:57We talk about tennis. Um we've made significant commitments to tennis. As I mentioned, we redid all the tennis courts over at the academy portion. We've approved of redoing all the other tennis courts at the resort core. We brought back Sean McQuillan, who was previously the Director of Tennis, and we've seen some big wins already on the back of that. Re-engage with some of the professionals who have interacted with. So we did a nice shoot with the number 10 ATP tour player, which got Saddlebrook Good Press and is really relaunching Saddlebrook back into the tennis community. And then in January, we brought back our first tournament

   1:00:27in four years. It was a $25,000 ITF pro-circuit men's tournament, and the feedback was great. It was streamed globally. waiting on the official rating, but we were told that it was very well executed and the feedback from ITF was remarkable. We've got more events coming back and frankly, even since we put the slide together, we've gotten more commitment from the USTA. So putting Saddlebrook back on the tennis map is a very important part of our business plan.

   1:00:58Getting into the details of our plan, so as Barbara touched on, this shows area 3A and 3B.

   1:01:07In yellow is area 3A. In orange is area 3B. So 3A is today 27 tennis courts and a surface parking lot. In our prior plans, this was all covered as one big area. We split it into two areas because our plans evolved and we've had more detail behind it. So our commitment to area 3A is that will remain as simply tennis courts. Surface parking. So no new development in place of where the tennis courts are today. And what we've preserved is up to 27 courts.

   1:01:39We're committing to maintain at least 20 of them. We've built in flexibility, we have some amount of courts that we can take from tennis use to potentially pickleball or paddle paddle tennis, depending on what those demand needs are. And up to seven courts we can remove and replace with. surface parking, although frankly, I don't think we're gonna need to use seven. Um but at this stage, you know, we we're we wanted to commit to something that we knew was a worst case scenario. Um And no, I'm not sure. That's where we plan for our new members clubhouse. So

   1:02:09that's a renovation of the existing buildings with uh an expansion in order to make it a competitive clubhouse facility with fitness use, locker rooms, etc. So that'll have food and beverage, locker facilities, fitness facilities, uh outdoor dining, pool area, etc. And then we've also carved out what is here, which is a pool. And then we've uh pickleball courts. We just actually took two uh unutilized tennis courts and converted them to four pickleball courts. We've carved that out of the area

   1:02:39as well to ensure the preservation of those.

   Unidentified speaker

   1:02:45What?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:02:47So this shows the you know uh the preliminary footprint of what is in area three B. Oh sorry, and I I I'll go back. Barbara had also mentioned a movement of the maintenance facilities to Area 3B. So Area 3B today has a cart barn as well as resort maintenance. We will continue to have our cart barn and resort maintenance facilities here. In terms of the larger maintenance facility, we don't have capacity in this area to move the larger golf maintenance here. So the preliminary plan that we're

   1:03:17exploring is the greater. Grand Pavilion. Um which is a little bit more than a little bit.

   1:03:26Sorry. which is down here in the resort core. It's a very large open exhibition space that doesn't have much to it. That's where our preliminary p plan right now is for that larger maintenance facility to go to. It's away from all the houses. Uh it has good connectivity to both the resort and the golf. Um it's on the main road. So for a lot of reasons we think that's uh actually gonna be the best location for the maintenance the golf maintenance facility.

   1:03:56Ultimately that's gonna be outdoor storage that's heavily buffered and landscaped. And so it it's we're not talking an actual facil uh building or facility there. It's uh you know mostly gonna be storage of materials.

   1:04:11So this is back to the clubhouse. And then this shows a 3D model of that area, you know, 3B and what the clubhouse is going to go. And you can see where the four pickleball courts that we just added are on that plan. So mostly existing buildings that get fully renovated with some expansion of of of new buildings.

   1:04:31For the golf, you know, we brought on Rhys Jones uh and Bryce Swanson from Reese Jones' uh team is here and we'll talk. But you know, Rhys is a world-class golf architect who has it in his blood and lineage, uh, you know, the golf business. Uh and we you know this is just some of the amazing courses Rhys has done, but you know, US Open venues, PGA Championship venues, Ryder Cup venues, both from a new built course as well as a a renovation of existing facilities. So, you know, their their resume as a firm is

   1:05:01is quite impressive uh and we're confident that they're really gonna deliver us uh a very high quality facility that competes with anything around us.

   1:05:13The new driving range plan. Um so ultimately the course will be a twenty seven hole course with three nines. Uh you know, we were sitting down with uh the Reese J Rhys Jones team today and so we don't yet have the full twenty seven hole routing plan to share, but we are close. Um but the driving range, you know, the location's the southeast corner, uh, which you know keeps it distant from a lot of the residential homes in the area. And you know, ultimately it's a two-sided range that

   1:05:43you know meets the needs of both the Academy members as well as resort guests. So all of the facilities that exist at the driving range today in its current location are replicated here and it meets all of our needs. And then the 27-hole routing plan, ultimately what we do know and we can commit to is anybody who has a home with a golf course view today will continue to have a home with a golf course view and that will be unimpacted.

   1:06:08And we touched on the deed restriction, but you know, we have agreed with the Hotel Condo Association on the form of deed restriction. And so we've worked with them over the last several weeks. And that is our commitment to the Saddlebrook. And we think it benefits the community overall. But that's you know the only association that's thus far has engaged with us, but we've reached full agreement on that with them. And that will protect as golf into perpetuity. So with that I'll turn it to Aaron Landry.

   Aaron Landry

   1:06:49Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Aaron Landry with Mass Capital. Thank you for your time. I wanted to highlight some of the economic benefits of our proposed plan. And I appreciate uh Mr. Ingall's comments uh earlier and certainly look forward to hopefully sharing some of the information that we have with him uh to make sure he has everything he needs.

   1:07:10So the few the few of the aspects I wanted to focus on is job creation uh in particular the real estate uh values as well as some of the direct fiscal benefits. So since Mass purchased the resort a little bit less than a year ago, we've already added 100 jobs to the payroll. And then we also commissioned our own study by a group called Miami Economic Associates that do these types of studies that David was referencing all around the state. And so we have, based on our plans,

   1:07:40generated basically information that creates these outputs that I want to share with you. And I think the the highlights from this is the way to think about this slide and information is you have non-recurring, which is effectively your construction period. And then you have um your recurring, which is obviously post-completion. And so when we Based on our plans as proposed and Barbara had shared obviously the concept plan between all the areas, inclusive of the resort renovation, you can see that uh in using in fact even M Plan, which is

   1:08:10a um proprietary software, which is very common and and and what David also referenced earlier, that 2300 approximately jobs will be created during the construction period. And then post-completion, approximately 700 jobs moving forward. Ultimately that generates significant obviously dollars in terms of where those wages are spent. If you if you could, could you hang

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:08:34on to that slide for a second? Yes. Just because you're touching exactly the same data he was using. I think he said it was like about twenty-eight million dollars would be the G D P

   1:08:42and

   1:08:43I think that's your number at twenty six. So what how what were your thoughts when he made the comment he's gonna increase the GDP by fifty eight million compared to doing the apartment complex

   Aaron Landry

   1:08:57So I'd say in terms of trying to create more value, um, we're all in favor of that. I think to be fair, we've not seen any plan or inputs based on his study. We've done this based off the actual plans that are in front of you. So it's it's sort of a it's comparing a hypothetical to what we have proposed. And so I can't comment on something I haven't seen with I have no idea what input. He he put forward to generate those numbers. So

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:09:20so he asked you for information. Did you give him any information? Did you have all this

   Aaron Landry

   1:09:24and just didn't share it with him? No, so we provide I reached out to Mr. Ingle uh last week and we've had conversations prior to that to make sure we provide him any information he'd like. We've shared information along the way in the past weeks, significant presentations with a lot of this data and information. Uh this report was not complete in order to share this with him. Otherwise, we would have. We're happy to share it after uh to provide that information to him. But as far as the plans that Have been described and proposed and other information and details that we had, we share that

   1:09:54information with them prior to today. So how when did this get completed? So this was completed on Friday. In terms of having a d having it having a version that we could actually

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:10:05So we have we have a planning commission meeting that's a recommending body to us to have data put in front of them. This is supposed to get a whole concept plan, including all these economic figures. And you guys have it ready for Friday before we're gonna see it. I'm gonna say his fifty-eight million dollar GDP higher than what you've got? And as far as tax revenue for us? I mean all this should have been looked at by us way ahead of time. But go ahead.

   Aaron Landry

   1:10:33Again, happy to share uh all this information with Mr. Ingle. Um terms of increased home values, um since we purchased the resort, there's been significant increase in home values. It's undeniable. Uh and twenty you just look, I think the two takeaways are if you look at the number of sales in 21 versus 22 when Mass purchased the resort, and you look at the actual increase in values, it's significant, almost doubled. There's been no reason to For a change in the values of the units at the resort, other than or but for

   1:11:04basically word of mouth in the fact that Mass has put forward plans for the resort. The resort has been on a path of decline. There's been lack of investment. There's been no reason logically that the values would change, but obviously folks are benefiting and we haven't even fully executed our plan. Five million dollars invested thus far. So just

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:11:24to be clear. You're saying because of masked these values have gone up hasn't been the market itself. How does the market compare to what your

   Aaron Landry

   1:11:31values have gone?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:11:31So

   Aaron Landry

   1:11:32that's actually a good good point. So the way this is broken out too is the top is the resort, which is the kind of hotel units, the bottom is Lakeside. So just by pure analysis, the top being the condo, you're seeing Lakeside, which is a traditional unit, you can live in the unit. You know. Full time. But kind of hotel you cannot. So you can see the the the the increases in the Conda Hotel. Almost 300% increase in certain instances. You compare that to the bottom chart, which is much more, I would say, typical

   1:12:02of a traditional obviously real estate value for a home, you're seeing approximately 35% increase there. So it that's an indication that again Mast hasn't renovated the resort of any great extent other than the 5 million we put in, and that's just the beginning. But that goes to show you kind of the what I'd say is the the hyperactivity that's clearly associated with the plans that Mast has put forward for renovation of the resort and investors taking the opportunity to try to have some upside and get in early. That's that's a it's a classic example

   1:12:33of that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:12:33I recall seeing an email from a lady who I think had bought one of these for about two hundred and sixty thousand dollars, maybe three hundred and sixty thousand dollars. And Is that that one of those units that went down what we're talking about for as low as from eleven to thirty five thousand?

   Aaron Landry

   1:12:47I have no idea what what unit you're referring to. I I'm telling you this is we can we can obviously go back and try to find the exact exact transaction, but I'm ha

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:12:56we'll we'll wait to hear from the people. Um so just one more question. With these units here, what did they generally sell for maybe ten years ago, five years ago? Any idea?

   Aaron Landry

   1:13:05Five years ago, I don't know. But I would but I think it's clear from twenty one and the resort has been on a path in terms of valuations going down to see them jump and double in twenty two when nothing's changed. It's it's inexplicable from a real estate perspective.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:13:21Purchase basis, does Mast have the first right of refusal on

   Aaron Landry

   1:13:24these walking village condos? So Mast has a right of first refusal. I think the key to understand is that does not mean that the person has to sell their unit to Mast. So if you are if you own a unit and you have another buyer and they're willing and that buyer is paying a higher price, you don't have to sell the Mast, you take the higher price. So you're not being harmed as an owner.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:13:42No, but you but mask can buy it for the same price that the other person's being offered a sale for.

   Aaron Landry

   1:13:47You can match that price.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:13:49So mash can mask can match it

   Aaron Landry

   1:13:51and then buy it. We could match it, but if you get a higher offer, you don't you're not obligated to sign. No, the uh but you can have

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:13:56first right refusal.

   Aaron Landry

   1:13:58Correct. Which is pretty typical of a kind of a hotel structure. Okay, so how many inherited

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:14:02how many of these have you bought? in the past year.

   Aaron Landry

   1:14:05Today

   1:14:09Twenty-two? Twenty-two? Twenty-two. Thank you.

   1:14:15Uh in terms of the bed tax, uh I'll just highlight briefly here. Um again in 21 the bed tax was that was generated by the resort was around $200,000 since MAST has taken over. Um that tax has increased by about $100,000. Clearly, um I think that's again partly due to good operational uh expertise and and changing over of the of the team and staff and implementing new policies. But ultimately I think the bigger uh the bigger takeaway here is the potential uh to generate significantly much more embed

   1:14:45tax uh through the implementation excuse me implementation of our plan. Uh

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:14:50as

   Aaron Landry

   1:14:50discussed earlier.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:14:51And if you'd stay on that slide for a second as well. Yes. When you get to the point of having all your data together, which you have for Mr. Engel as well, do us a comparison as well, like he did. Show us what the tourist development tax would be revenue wise if you made them condo hotels as opposed to apartments. Okay. Thank you.

   Aaron Landry

   1:15:12In terms of direct fiscal benefits, um this is again associated with the overall proposed plans for the new development areas only, so this is not uh information related to the renovation. So uh generally speaking these numbers would actually be higher if you included that uh portion of uh renovation work. But The point is in terms of overall fees that would be paid associated with the new development, that's approximately $7.6 million. And then on a go-forward basis, just for the residential components that we had shown on

   1:15:42areas one and two, we have that estimated at approximately two million dollars. Again, that does not include what would be the retail and office components that we had shown in our proposed plan. So that two million dollars would be be uh ultimately higher.

   1:15:56And then lastly, um before Jordan comes back up, just wanted to highlight these are meant to be what I would say is inspirational images. They're just um again these are not these are not A, these are not mast owned uh properties, but in terms of trying to give a sense of sort of flavor and direction if you will for the town center concept. Uh here's one which is the square in West Palm Beach. Uh and then a second one here which is the village in Leesburg, Virginia. Again not to be uh that that what we intend to do is precisely or exactly as that, but it's meant to be more of a sense of um sense of direction

   1:16:27or intent with the town center concept. With that I'll let Jordan

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:16:32Commissioner Commissioner Weightman has a name for that. What's your what's your name? Downtowns? Oh y then does mean. Oh Entertainment.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:16:46Thank you. So we just wanted to walk you through some of our plans, but real quick before that, um when we talk about five hundred new hotel keys on the you know northwest portion of the site, what we inherited was a five hundred room roughly hotel that sits

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:17:00largely in

   1:17:00the right-of-way.

   1:17:00Hey Jordan? Yes. Um you're out of time. I know we've asked a few questions, which is okay, so I'll give you extra time, but can how how long do you think you'll need to wrap it up?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:17:07Uh So I only need a few minutes. We were gonna have uh Bryce Swanson from Reese Jones team speak, uh who was planning on five minutes as well. So I think with seven, eight minutes we could get through the rest. Okay. Um So we have 500 hotel keys today that sit largely vacant. They're running 20% occupancy when we inherited the resort. We have a lot of condo hotel owners who have economic interests are aligned in that resort. So I just want to make clear before we add 500 new hotel keys to the property. We have roughly 400 hotel keys

   1:17:38a night that sit vacant. So we need to focus on filling those 400 hotel keys that sit vacant before we add 500 more. Um and so in terms of our renovation plans as I mentioned, really everything the eye can see gets touched. So enhancing the arrival experience, that's an image of it, adding a new fountain, um, and you know, landscaping obviously all throughout the resort. new coffee bar and marketplace in the lobby. You know, lobbies are generally places to meet today and places to interact. Saddlebrooks is very transactional, so creating this

   1:18:08will really enhance that whole lobby experience and make it aligned with most resorts today. You know, taking what is today Dempsey's two and really making an activated restaurant and sports bar concept. Uh you know, we have uh shuffleboard and pool table areas shown there, uh significant capacity enhancing the seating, and then really an indoor-outdoor connection. You know, that outdoor area overlooking the eighteenth green of a saddleboard course is is truly beautiful. Um and there's no seating there, there's no activation. So really activating that area we think will better. benefit everybody. Specialty

   1:18:39restaurant, this is today where Tropics is, really making it a high-end three meal, fine dining execution. And then this is a rendering of ultimately our guest room product. You know, the the guest rooms are in dire need of renovation, the entire resort's in dire need of renovation, and this will bring the product up in line with those competitive resorts we talked about and really bring saddle work back. It's just another rendering of of the guest rooms. And so ultimately, you know, our plan is to enhance Saddlebrook. We've done a

   1:19:09significant amount of that to date, as I shared, as as Aaron shared, and this is going to benefit the overall community. So, you know, I think it's important for everybody to remember that. And with that, uh Jordan, a question for you. Yes. You say your occupancy rate's twenty percent? When we inherited the resort, it was twenty percent. It's ticked up since we've owned the resort um just based on some sales strategy, but it was running roughly twenty percent occupancy when we inherited it. Okay. And when you took it over February? Correct. Well, and that's a TTM trailing twelve month annualized number, so no seasonality or anything like

   1:19:39that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:19:39So let me ask you this with you have the right to make the people renovate if you choose to, correct?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:19:45We do not have the right to make them renovate. They have to choose to renovate.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:19:48They have to choose.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:19:48Correct. Okay. Um that's different from one of the contracts I read, but I'll uh I'll wait to hear. So so they can if they don't renovate, to be in the rental pool, they need to be up to standards, which is typical of condo hotels. We can't force them to renovate. So ultimately it's their choice whether they renovate or not. And you know, when you develop standards, it's then a question of rental pool particip participation versus not.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:20:17All right, so twenty percent when you took the rate it over, it's up now. What is it now?

   1:20:23Thirty four percent. Okay. And do you remember what it was the year before when you guys first started looking at the property, what those numbers were? Eighteen percent. Okay. Thank you.

   Seth Weightman

   1:20:34Question? Thank you, Chairman Mr. Weightman, sorry. I have while I was waiting, I've been making notes as you've been going along. But because of these rental standards Y'all the mass set the rental standards. They're not like part of any county ordinance code, that sort of thing. It's mass standards that the out third-party owners that aren't mass, if they choose to renovate. Obviously I would think they can make that decision in due time. Is there a timeline? Uh approximate

   1:21:05budget if they want to renovate it, do they have to use the mask contractor? Not necessarily

   1:21:13No, if that's the role of the county to really understand the detail in the questions, but it's our job to ensure that ownership and public benefit and quality and trust is there too.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   1:21:22Right.

   Seth Weightman

   1:21:24Can you answer those questions?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:21:26Absolutely. So ultimately we're working on finalizing, you know, we've shown the renderings, we're finalizing a bid package to to have pricing on it. Um and you know ultimately we will then go to owners once we have all that buttoned up to say, here's the cost, and even beyond that, here's our projected projected pro forma. Here's the here's what the revenue will go to if you renovate and where we think operations Go, and this is what the return on your vest investment will ultimately be and your payback period. And you know, in terms of payment

   1:21:56timing, um, you know, that's also gonna be something that we're gonna look at. In terms of people doing it on their own, ultimately, there's gonna be a significant benefit through contracting them all together and significant benefits of scale. Uh so you know, ultimately, I think the the idea. The idea would be that they would all go through our contractor from a resort from an execution and logistics standpoint. It would be, you know, frankly, very difficult to have 300 different contractors running around the resort and you'd get the benefits

   1:22:26of scale you learn from the model room project. So ultimately, the idea would be that we would contract it all for the benefit of everybody, and everybody would get the scale savings that you. get from buying five hundred times versus once.

   Seth Weightman

   1:22:38And are you putting them on a block? You putting a a time expiration for those that still own third party? Are you putting them on a ninety day, six month like is there a is there a time frame in which they have to come into the

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:22:53No, ultimately, if somebody decides down the road, obviously, you know, we're happy to then renovate their units in the future. So there's not going to be a ticking time where you need to come in by this date. There could be an additional cost, though, if you don't, you know, when we ultimately bulk by, there's lead times and all the stuff, things are ordered in bulk. So if there's an owner who chooses not to renovate and then a year later wants to renovate, we're very happy obviously to coordinate that and do it. it um it just might cost a little more ultimately to buy things one off.

   Seth Weightman

   1:23:21So then who markets the say non-renovated Condit.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:23:27So the non-renovated condos ultimately, you know, through the condominium documents and everything that exists, those determine but you know what can be done with it. And you know, they uh can be used as as a residence. Um, you know, there's certain limitations, obviously, uh, in terms of you know what what what those units can and can't be to protect the resort. Um but any, you know, they they're on their own to do um what they do. So within the within the documents that exist.

   Seth Weightman

   1:23:54So when when a customer comes into town and they choose to say it's saddlebrook. They can go online. I'm assuming they go online and choose what, you know, they want a uh a room that's been remodeled, renovated, and then versus an old one, you're those rooms that say that third party owns, they'll have the ability to still market their room and collect revenue, right? Or will those be pushed to the bottom of the pile and all the shiny rooms be set for sale?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:24:20So for short-term rental, it needs to be a part of of our rental pool. Um so you know nightly nightly rental as a as a hotel um would go through our rental pool, but obviously there's you know they can use their units, they can do longer term rentals on it, um but short term rental is restricted to the the the resort you know owner.

   Seth Weightman

   1:24:39So Mass is gonna ensure that the folks who may not necessarily choose to renovate their condo right away will have the opportunity to still have their room to collect revenue off of that.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:24:52Of course. No, listen we we obviously can't restrict anybody from accessing their units. It's you know, they own it, they have a contract with us. Uh if they no longer have a contract with us, it's it's their unit. Um we no longer have rights over it.

   Seth Weightman

   1:25:07Are we still doing questions?

   1:25:10Uh

   1:25:13Thank you for that deep sale. So back to the I think Aaron showed a slide that said thirty-eight million in local job creation with construction companies. Are y'all bringing in an you know, out of Tampa Bay, out of k is that is that contractor chosen? I mean is it coming are those are these jobs that you're gonna be paying, which is great. Well they're gonna be patient. Loc is gonna be local contracting opportunities associated with it, or

   1:25:43as MAST have their, you know, their preferred contractor that comes in from wherever and that's that's kinda how that thirty eight million is is figured, 'cause I kinda look at that as it doesn't necessarily stay in Pasco County, that figure may or may not be. fair on an economic point.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:26:04That's it's a fair f good question. Um ultimately, you know, it'll be a combination. Uh you know, I'd I'd expect we always try to work with local groups where we can, and especially in the subcontractor community. Uh, you know, I'd say a lot of the subcontractors ultimately are are local. Uh you know, contractors we'd look both locally and for, you know, larger, more, more statewide groups. Um so I'd expect there to be, you know, some combination Of of local and outside, but definitely not all outside. Um, but you know, we we also can't commit

   1:26:34that it would all be a hundred percent local.

   Seth Weightman

   1:26:37Thank you. Um

   1:26:41To area one.

   1:26:45In our planning process, do we have any com I mean I've always been open with concerns of traffic. Do we have any comments for In the plans from our Sheriff's Department.

   1:26:58Those on the record? They're supposed to make comments on it. And I say that out of concern of half dozen or so red lights from the interstate.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:27:06There are comments within your agenda memo. They're not very helpful in terms of

   Gary Bradford

   1:27:13Well

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   1:27:14that sort of information.

   1:27:25I mean it doesn't give you it it shows that there's a concern from law enforcement, it doesn't really ask you to do anything.

   Seth Weightman

   1:27:37That type of detail on a project like this is important. Especially in a congested area. Commissioner Weightman

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:27:46Uh Commissioner Starkey first, you had her hand up. Sorry.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:27:49Um, thank you. Uh so first um uh I got some emails that uh it uh suggested that my son is involved with your project. I wish he was, but uh Wheelock Street Capital is not involved in this project. Correct. And um but I know from my son and we all know his company did um Starkey Ranch.

   1:28:15that uh that they've been part they had been contacted by many groups who were looking to buy Saddlebrook, but they passed. And I I know even Tom Brady's was in on a deal to purchase Saddlebrook. And that that didn't come through. So within a group. I'm personally very excited that someone's willing to invest and bring the Saddlebrook. Back up to where it used to be. Um it's interesting I'm looking here and there are a lot of homes in Saddlebrook that are on BRBO.

   1:28:46So um I don't know how that works with our short term rental program that has only about six legal homes in it, but this is another reason why we have to fix that ordinance so these people can rent their properties legally, because right now you can't rent on on Airbnb or B R B O, except for about six houses in the town.

   1:29:07So uh I just wanted to touch on the subject of having to update your condo to be in the pool and I I like to travel and I stay in a lot of VRBOs, condo hotels, and others, and I I understand the reason why they want to protect their new name because they're trying to brand Saddlebrook as a five-star resort. And if you go and you stay in a in a um outdated room, it's

   1:29:38not going to reflect well on the new brand they're trying to bring to the county. So my son's company has purchased a resort called South Seas Plantation. Some of you may know it, down in Captive Island. Same exact thing. If you want to be in the new new upgraded rebranded resort you're gonna have to upgrade your product to fit with what they're trying to promote and and so I'm even surprised you're allowed that there's other sales

   1:30:08allowable in the community um because you you know you someone rents something with a broken couch, the oven doesn't work or whatever, then you start getting bad Reviews. It's tough to overcome a bad review. So I I understand what they're trying to do on their rooms. And um Uh I'm not gonna get into all the other stuff until we're done with the presentations. I just wanted to touch on that aspect of how these operate.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:30:37Okay. Commissioner Bradford?

   Gary Bradford

   1:30:41Thank you for your presentation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I made a note that you said your statement was that uh if you have a golf course view under your development right now, you maintain that call golf course view. Is that correct?

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:30:59Correct.

   Gary Bradford

   1:31:02Okay. Twenty now.

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:31:05Okay.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:31:06Um

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:31:08there's a do you have another part of your team speaking? Yes. Bryce Swanson.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:31:14No, we haven't still got

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:31:16and he's coming up, I wanna remind you when we had the governor at Saddlebrook. In I don't know. I don't know. Okay. So he left early because it was so hot in that room because the A C didn't work. Do you remember how hot it was in that room?

   Gary Bradford

   1:31:31I think the whole floor and cabinet was

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:31:33Yeah, they couldn't take they couldn't take the heat, so Yeah. We need a new air conditioner in that big room.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:31:59Uh Chairman and Board, good afternoon. Thank you for your time. I'll go quick. Uh my name is Bryce Swanson. I'm uh Vice President Vice President Senior Designer for Reese Jones Inc. We're based out of Montclair, New Jersey. But we actually work all over the world, in the U.S., predominantly from that standpoint. Those who are golfers, perhaps in the audience, might recognize the name Jones. Reese is actually the son of Robert

   1:32:29Trent Jones Sr., who is a famous American golf course architect. Reese and his brothers started out learning hand in hand from his father, and ultimately he went out on his own. As I mentioned, we've worked on over 240 projects completed throughout the U.S. overseas. We're also all members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects. That's why I have my jacket on. From that. But some of our projects they vary in scale. We've

   1:32:59done anything from municipality public golf to resort golf, and then two private clubs. But we've also had the opportunity to work on a number of the U.S. Open venues, PGA Championships, Ryder Cup venues, to prepare those for those special events. In Florida, we've actually worked both courses for the Breakers over on the other coast. We've done some work further south down around Naples, Bonita Springs. Uh I

   1:33:29myself just finished up two over in the Palm Beach area from that. So we're used to the conditions or the environment here. But when Mass Capital approached us, uh our job once we first came out was to evaluate the existing golf course. And as you've heard today, One of the concern items being concerned is the relocation of the practice fairway. The practice fairway is located up there in the kind of the very northwest corner up by the inner uh the highway 54.

   1:34:00Did I get that correct? Um And just from a logistics operations standpoint, it's substantial distance. So to make all the pieces go together with the redevelopment and to bring Saddlebrook back. Ultimately the item they asked us to take a look at was relocating the range. What we focused on after studying the entire property was the southeast corner, which is currently made up of Palmer number one, Palmer 2. uh Palmer's 16 17, a number of holes there. Uh we

   1:34:30settled on that area because it gave us the greatest space to build a state of the art practice facility, not only for the members and the guests, but also to grow the golf school back into what it once was. The golf schools dropped down in the number of kids who actually attend, down into high teens where Back in the day I was up in the twenties, uh, from that standpoint. Uh this slide right here with the white line around you uh around it highlights the area that we've focused on to create the new range,

   1:35:00uh practice amenities that all go with that short game areas for not only members and the resorts but also for the golf school. Um This right here is a preliminary concept that we've developed, something similar to anything we build at any other high-end resort, private club, but it has the capabilities to allow members to use the west corner of the range. Don't know how to uh But that's the closest piece closest to the pool as you're looking

   1:35:31at it. uh resort guests and members would have a quicker access to it. the further uh corner of it to the east would allow the golf school academy to have the same components that they currently have but actually give them more state of the art. Bring it up to kind of the current industry and where things are going. Uh with that, we had to take into a different account safety setbacks, everything that we look at in terms of the setbacks. So we found plenty of space to set it back from

   1:36:01one end, one end of the T to the other end of the T. We're at 365 yards from that. With that Uh just to kind of hone in our focus, if somebody now is coming to the the range, you could see uh we've repurposed what was Palmer number eighteen green into a short game area where players could kind of work on their game, a little putting green for them to warm up. Uh we have found some additional uh parking. Which is currently on the existing

   1:36:31Polymer No. 1T. So if there was a need for additional parking spots, we have found a spot. We've created a space for the Turf Nursery Green from that. And then as you move through it, the range floor is designed such to allow people the maximum practice experience to really work on their game. But the beauty of this spot is We have nice setbacks from the surrounding development, properties down to the south, the surrounding condos, and that. And

   1:37:02then it was touched on earlier the additional maintenance storage, just to clarify, again, it's not actual a full blown building or anything that. It's nothing more to a certain extent of a concrete slab. with some bins, which are concrete walls, six feet, eight feet in high. It's just somewhere where they could store some of the materials that they periodically use out on the golf course, like the bonkers sand. top dressing sand. Uh maybe it's a spot too where the ball picker and some of the equipment used to clean up the

   1:37:32range uh gets kind of housed. They wash down balls, uh those type of components. But the full golf course operation, the site is uh being considered as the old Grand Pavilion on site, uh with the idea of repurposing that. Uh to give everyone clarification too, the back portion of the range is set up not only for the idea of the golf school academy, but then too for the ability of the members to be able to go down there, get away from people

   1:38:02to really work on their games, uh maybe something too for the resort to grow more of a one-on-one teaching or golf school academy for uh people who come to the resort for an extended period of time. There is a proposed uh building structure at the very back of the r uh the practice fairway for the golf school. It's 40 by 60 feet. The idea of that is restroom facilities for the students, teachers, uh controlled environment in terms of AC, break room, somewhere

   1:38:33to go in, actually watch some video uh break down their swing from that and then with that Additional components, putting green, short game areas, space where everyone could really use and maximize their experience. Uh with that, um this is just again overall uh The rework of it, it does require us to uh fill in and relocate some of the water usage, preliminary

   1:39:03conversations with the engineer. And also based on my past experience in Florida. Uh those are all things that are doable. Uh just requires to go through the proper channels as it relates to permitting in the process from that. But there is a small pound uh pond being proposed to be filled. And then uh uh certain ponds being reconfigured in the lighter blue. The dark blue indicates the current shapes. Um and with that uh That's

   1:39:34all I have.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:39:35All right. Uh question for you. So you're gonna be taking up pretty much one, two, sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen. So in Palmer course, the old style course, kind of a links course that goes out for nine holes, keeps on going, comes back in for eighteen. Where are you gonna have the first T for those new golf course?

   Bryce Swanson

   1:39:51Sure. Um so on that, uh one of the things that I didn't I didn't go into is the current state of the golf course. Um You have exactly you have the Saddlebrook The original course is a nine-hole loop, kind of returns back to where the pool area is from that. The Palmer is one long continuation. What we've developed right now preliminary on paper and we're just Not ready to present because we need to check some things, but uh

   1:40:21the new configuration would be actually the Palmer holes would get reworked. Everybody who has golf outside their backyard would still have golf from that. We're not taking away any of the golf from that. Uh what we're gonna do is actually break What we looked at is breaking some of the front nine of the saddlebrook. layout holes one through nine. To allow us to rework a configuration for a new nine that uses two of the existing Saddlebrook front nine

   1:40:51holes with a rework of seven holes of the Palmer course to get us three nines that return back to the pool area. Uh so from a resort operation standpoint and also from the members We'd be able to provide them with three nines that are equal in yardage, uh PAR thirty-five or par thirty-six, but a similar level of test to golf.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:41:14So where's the first T gonna be?

   Bryce Swanson

   1:41:16Uh how do I use the red pointer?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:41:21No idea.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:41:30Okay. Um so the first Yeah, I'm gonna go back. I don't know if we have

   1:41:42Uh so the f

   1:41:46Alright. So right now this is Saddlebrook hole number one. Right here the green with the sand around it. That's Saddlebrook number four. Ultimately this would be Hole number one, hole number nine. And what we'd be proposing is using Saddlebrook Hole number five as the new start for the the new nine. That's the

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:42:10Saddleburgh course is eighteen holes of nine in nine out.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:42:13Right.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:42:14If you disrupt one And nine. What are you gonna do for the other So b balance of that golf course. It makes no sense.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:42:22No, no, no. It it it it does.

   1:42:27I wish I had the full drawing. But so if you if you know the course and you remember how it plays, in theory you'd play Saddlebrook number one, you'd play Saddlebrook number two. And then you would go over. and you would go down the road and then you'd hook into some of the Palmer holes. Ultimately you'd come back And you'd play Saddlebrook number four. And that finishes nine holes a golf. If you're Going to play, call it

   1:42:57the new nine holes. which is made up of some of the saldibricoles and the palmer, You would then come over here. He'd pick up Saddlebrook number four. You'd play number five coming down. You'd play a new golf hole shaped in here. Uh from that standpoint you go around the corner here and then you hook into the palmer Holes that are And make up that. And then ultimately you come back around and the new finish would be Saddlebrook

   1:43:28number twenty seven. Or is it Saddlebrook number nine?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:43:31So you Saddlebrook number one. Oh yeah. The new Saddlebrook number one. I'm not done yet.

   1:43:36I know I just let my easy.

   1:43:39I'll wait on that.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:43:40Show

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:43:41you the new Saddlebrook number one? Yeah, I mean you just took out number one and nine of Saddlebrook. Where's it gonna be where's the new number one of Saddlebrook gonna

   Bryce Swanson

   1:43:47be? So ultimately it becomes Three nines that are One through nine, ten through eighteen and Nineteen three twenty four. So where's

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:43:57the shadow book number one going to be?

   Bryce Swanson

   1:43:58So Saddlebrook number one would still say stay as Hole number one or Saddlebrook number one.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:44:06You just said that was gonna be part of

   1:44:08the palm. What

   Bryce Swanson

   1:44:15I'd love to have

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:44:15seen a map at some point in time. Right.

   1:44:20So I know you're new into it. But again, we're looking at things, but what's gonna happen? And I'm I'm trying to look at some of the things you're saying. I don't see how you break up the Palmer costs. The way it's set? Without really doing some major shift. The saddleback was to be kept in place and it's hard to do anything else. Uh because it's just loaded with cypress around it, so you gotta flow. I'm gonna I'm gonna talk now. When I look at you say it's gonna be nice for the people to be able to go where hole number two is or number three is. Whether go to the

   1:44:50practice range over there and be in a nice quiet place to go. Guess what? The practice range right now that sets out over on 54 is a nice quiet place to go practice. And beside it, the students can go practice. So why do we have to do all these changes, put all this construction in, changing the ponds, changing elevations all the way through here, going through all this construction that these people people gotta live through, why can't we just work to go improve what's there, which is a pretty good facility? Some say. And then you know, c keep

   1:45:21this in place 'cause that I mean, Alma Parma decided two pretty, pretty, really good glasses. Mm-mm. Why would you go through all this? Soup, other than make money.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:45:33So I I don't think it'll do that.

   1:45:38I don't think I mean from that standpoint Uh we don't have the slides. We didn't want to take up everyone's time. I think the reality of the place is it goes back to nineteen seventies and then you have the Palmer work that occurred in the eighties. You throw in the number of years of neglect, of no money being put into the golf course to repair any of the parts out there. A golf course is like no different than your house or car. So the pieces have started to fall out. The reality shows the rounds have dropped. The

   1:46:09average rounds right now are somewhere thirty six to forty thousand rounds. If you do a comparison to what other golfs have been doing, in recent years and COVID was a big boom for golf, but I have I know of other facilities that a typical eighteen hole eighteen holes in Florida have been doing anywhere from fifty to sixty thousand rounds with a limited membership. The rounds have gone down in terms of what they're able to charge from a resort standpoint. The golf course is in dire needs

   1:46:39of repair. It's reached a point that you can't just put a band-aid on it. So we've got to a point now where pieces are broken, car paths are falling apart, the drainage system doesn't work, the irrigation system's on band-aids, things need to be repaired. So with that I understand that the going all the way up to the range is you know, it is quiet to a certain extent, if you want to say. I would come from a golfer standpoint that Outside of living there in the community, if I was a resort guest, I have to jump in

   1:47:10my cart, I have to drive over 4,000 some feet. I find that a little disconnected. It doesn't match up to perhaps some of my other options out there. but then two, taking a step further, You have the golf course The original that goes back to the seventies, technology's changed. For some people it's a fair, fun you know, golf course experience. I think for other players it's no longer that. I think uh the conditions have suffered greatly. There's points in

   1:47:40time where the Saddlebrook course has to close during the rainy season, late July to early October. So there's major work that needs to be done. And what we've advised the client to just go ahead and put things back. is more of a short-term fix. It doesn't really address some of the issues in terms of the original design or even the polymer design. as it relates to options from the green surfaces or components like that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:48:06Well maybe that's the wrong window. Spent a lot of time out there on the course. Uh recently I made sure I played it a few different times, especially when I heard how bad the Saddlebrook course was. So I played it right after hearing that at a public meeting. Uh went out to look and play it. It played great. Um I had played the Palmer course before that had played great. I happened to be out there Friday during the storm that was going on. And from the storm that was going on, the water that's there, it was it was raining down real hard as the storm bands were coming through. But you could see the drainage working to where it went. And by the end of day, pretty much there were some wet areas,

   1:48:36obviously, but The course has drained well. Could it drain better? Absolutely. What's happened over the years I think you'll know is you can drive some drive down some of these car paths, you go look, the drain is coming in, the dirt where it's supposed to go into is higher than the car path. What's gonna happen? It needs to get cleaned out. It's it as we know it's gotta have it needs a lot of maintenance. But I don't think you just rip this whole thing apart uh changing this whole thing and going from the South Eastern part of the course. To go put the new

   1:49:06range to take it from the northwestern part of the course? Is any bit of an answer? You and then you're gonna have to go. do a lot of changes to make this whole thing go and then take from a thirty six old golf course and as a golfer if you went to a place And you're gonna take let's say group go with a group of guys, you're gonna wanna play twenty seven holes to kinda mix 'em up, or would you rather have two thirty six hole or two eighteen hole courses to go play? What would you rather do?

   Bryce Swanson

   1:49:31I want to do that. So for me I want the best golf and I would say currently what's there right now Hey it's a one time stop. as it relates to a a resort guest. With all the new developments that have come online. From that. I think it's a beautiful sight. I think the setting of you know the saddle rook course is something unique and different. I think the Palmer course, they moved a lot of dirt to a certain extent, but I feel like it becomes redundant.

   1:50:01So I'd rather opt out for the best golf course, whether it's twenty seven or thirty six

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:50:09from

   Bryce Swanson

   1:50:09that.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:50:11My question deals with the the fact of the going from thirty six holes to twenty seven. I've heard in past that uh twenty seven holes managed properly can do as much work, I guess, as a thirty six hole golf course. Uh is that true or

   Bryce Swanson

   1:50:30It So it's not a hundred percent in terms of matching, but it gives you the capability to get somewhere around seventy-five to eighty percent of what you were of

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:50:39the four. Okay. Yeah. My problem with golf is after I hit it I'm still standing too close to it. So I go from there. But um I think a redesign of some of that and B twenty seven holes can fit that community because I don't the resorts as we've seen them in the past, especially Saddlebrook. Um back in the day when it first started, it was uh tremendous resort, bringing a lot of people out of the Northeast, and a lot of that kind of activity coming

   1:51:10to Saddlebrook has kind of died off. But I look forward to seeing a uh new beginning of something just as great as it was in the

   Bryce Swanson

   1:51:20I just want to add one thing. Yeah. To properly fix this golf course, it's like again the comparison to when you're going to renovate your house or you know, honestly some point your car. Like the engine gets so old If you do normal maintenance on it, And you replace the tires, you do all the oil changes, you change the fan belts, you do all that. You can prolong the life. I hate to say it. The reality here is the golf courses two courses that have been s severely

   1:51:51neglected over the years. And to attempt to try to fix it does require a certain amount of work. So I understand, you know, how big of the scope. But I think that's part of us is to sh be able to develop that final plan to show people what perhaps it could be. To give 'em an idea.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:52:09All right. Well I'm going to disagree with you. Okay. Uh playing that golf course right now. Um the courses in the greens especially are fantastic shape. As good as I've seen 'em for for maybe ever. So as far as you're knocking the course right now, and just like one of the other people that owns a property right now tried to knock it earlier, I don't know why. But I'm going to tell you that course is well designed. It drains well if it's maintained. But when you have all the wet areas that have all the silt that's all grown up and never been cleaned out It doesn't get the chance to drain as quickly

   1:52:40as it should. Or could. But all the stu the infrastructure's there. Now maybe it needs newer infrastructure to be put in place. Won't argue with that? Maybe it doesn't. 'Cause if the silt's in there and has it it's stuck in the pipes, then so be it. But when you have your wetland areas at higher than where the car pests are and where the wall's supposed to drain, and if you look at the maintenance, even though they've had it for eight months now, nine months, you can go right down by the first T or the tenth T at Saddlebrook. You can go look and there's pine needles all over where the drain's supposed to go. Right from the right from where the apartments out of the the condominiums are taken in through. So even

   1:53:10with what they've done for maintenance hasn't been good. And when you showed that cut over from number four to five, the Power Four to five, Power Five, that replaced the sidewalk there, I don't see any pipe that was connecting the two ponds. I gotta think there was one there before.

   Bryce Swanson

   1:53:22No, there is pipe. It's just

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:24Buried under? Yeah. Buried under. Thank you. All right. Any other questions?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:53:29Um no Mr. Chairman so I'd like to keep the m meeting moving. Sure.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:35Okay, well we got questions we got questions. Um I'd like to ask um if you would come back up again. Not not you, I'm sorry, um Jordan.

   1:53:53June, you showed a picture of a lot of high level developments that you guys have done. Multi-story structures, et cetera. So I know looking at your website even before you show this, that you can do that type of thing. Uh Pasco County we like to get good things to come to the county. I mean we're working hard out every step of the way. Why would you not want to build one of those monumental buildings and facilities like the pavilion, as Commissioner Starkey mentioned? We got the governor here and no heat in there you can't make it go. And now you're gonna turn into a

   1:54:23shed. Why wouldn't you take and put the structure like there, where like you say it doesn't get a lot of use now because of its constraints? Why wouldn't you put a nice building right there that would be right in the heart of the development that could actually feed all the stuff you want to go do? Rather than go build apartments. Out there on fifty four. That it could be bound in traffic when you get only right turnout only. That means you're going to cross over and

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:54:46and crowd create more jams. Why would you do that? So I say two things, uh Chairman, with all due respect. You see the size of this room today. If I was planning to do high-rise in the heart of the property, it would be standing room only. There'd probably be 500 people here screaming saying they don't want that. Uh people's greatest concerns are traffic. And if we build high-rise at the heart of the community, it's gonna definitively make it a much worse saddlebrook for everybody. Um so it's actually counter to everybody's interest in this room to do that. And then also for

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:55:16Yeah. The NPUD that was granted years ago here was actually to to allow a nine story building to go in. So that's in the MPD that exists right now that these people knew about when they bought. The problem they're having is everything else that you

   Jordan Kornberg

   1:55:28got to hear in just a few minutes.

   1:55:37You know, sales, rents, et cetera. That um you know, while Pasco County is, you know, growing immensely and as you know we are huge believers and huge investors in Pasco County, um, we don't think it justifies nine story construction at the moment. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:55:55And try to wrap it up in a couple of minutes. Yep.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:55:57I'm Barbara Wellhead. So, in wrapping it up, that is our presentation. I would ask you to bring this back. We we've offered a lot of detail that has nothing to do with Complant and Zoning. How we configure the golf course, we've been asked about it, so we provided those things. So we do need to get back and think about what it means for this comp plan amendment and why we're doing the comp plan amendment. And um if we would make available our golf course architect team to meet with you, Commissioner, and and consider your ideas. Um we're not

   1:56:27saying you know, we wouldn't consider your ideas, but really has it's outside of land use and zoning about how we re we configure and how the client the investment the client wants to make in the resort and to if there was a cheaper way to do it they w they would do it. They have a reason why and he's explained why they're want to spend the money and the time to redo these courses. And I think that's it's pretty persuasive when he explains that. But You have a lot of ideas, we'd be happy to make our golf course architect available to meet with you

   1:56:57and listen to your ideas based upon your experience out there. But coming back to a land use amendment, which your county attorney would say. A lot of these things are MPUD and a lot of these things have nothing to do with either. And the golf course reconfiguration I don't think has to do anything to do with land use or zoning. But coming back to why we're here, we're here because we have a res six land use that has allows seventeen hundred and seventy-nine residential units over all of this res all the resident excuse me, over all of the resort property and we're trying to

   1:57:27make this a more specific plan development. for to p specifically allow for these commercial and resort uses that exist. and have been entitled in the MPUD. and to actually provide a benefit of having certainty about where things will go and where things won't go by doing a binding sub area plan that's never been done before. So I just would ask you to try to keep a focus on the comp plan and what we're trying to accomplish with the comp plan, we're already approved for residential, we're already approved for multifamily,

   1:57:57we're already approved for townhomes under the comp plan exists today. So it's really the non-residential in making sure that those are recognized as uses that exist today and entitlements that exist today, because there's already a hundred thousand square feet of commercial entitled today. We added five thousand um to that to make it one oh five. So that they could in that clubhouse area where they're renovating, if they wanted to add some more retail or restaurant, we would have a specific allocation for that. that wasn't considered when the project

   1:58:28was initially entitled. So with that I know we've been up here a long time. We appreciate your patience and listening. We only wanted to present this because we thought you wanted to hear it and that you were important to hear the details because you've been

   1:58:43So that's why we were up here so long, not to waste your time and we appreciate it. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:58:53And with the commercial aspects, I mean the MPUD was granted what it was granted for everything that's there. But in it it did have the component for the nine stories. So at the time the code and this was Mm-hmm. But would you be able to do any apartments if you didn't have Red Six? And what would the density be?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:59:11If we didn't have res six?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:13If you didn't get if if we have res six now, would you be able to do any apartments out there and what would the density be?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:59:19We can put seventeen hundred and seventy-nine units within the boundary of Saddlebrook under the Res 6 land use designation.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:27Okay, with what's available for land now. With the Res Six, would you be able to put any apartments in?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:59:32Yes.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:59:34Captain.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:59:38Um Barbara, uh I had a meeting with the residents. Unfortunately there was a mix-up and they came here and I was in New Port Richey. And so our unfortunately our meeting got um Shortened, but I did listen to the Planning Commission meeting and the residents had a lot of questions that I felt didn't get answered, but I know you didn't get to do the rebut. Um and you might have mentioned it here, but I was having some issues with my iPad, so I maybe didn't catch it in one of the

   2:00:08presentations. Um you already touched on no one's view gets lost. But one of the questions I heard at the Planning Commission was the concern about the second entrance that would be on the new Vision Road. Does that Vision Road have a name?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:00:24Vision Road Howard?

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:00:26Okay. We'll s we'll keep calling the vision road. That that entrance would be gated so that there would not be public access to Saddlebrook and I understand there's a gate on that road. I just wanna a answer that for the residents.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:00:42So I'd have to put my presentation back up and I can show you on the concept plan. Actually you have it in front of you. If you look at your concept plan, It's called um MPD Concept Plan. You'll see the details about gating and where things are gated. It was important to the residents that Um the fact that they all live behind a gate is maintained after we develop area number one. So There is a gate off of the Vision Road. but it's only for the residents

   2:01:12and guests within Saddlebrook to be able to to go through that gate and use that vision road. The development area one, whoever's going to develop Marion One cannot get into Saddlebrook resorts via that gate. I mean it is on that M Puty concept.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:01:26I I see there. Um the other question that the residents uh I thought um brought up during your meeting and maybe didn't get answered and um I asked during my meeting with uh the folks is the commitment to the Saddlebrook school. I understand there is a that That that's not going away in that the the layout of the new road does not hurt the Saddleback School.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:01:53That's right. I can have I don't know who's best from the team to to answer your question about the school and and Jordan, you wanna Yeah.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:02:02These were questions that the residents were asking, so I just want to make sure they got it. Uh

   Jordan Kornberg

   2:02:07on the school piece, um you know the school is actually a joint venture between us and another group. It wasn't a requirement for us to buy the school. School loses money today. Uh we chose to buy the school. A lot of the other investors who were looking at the resort actually would not have bought the school and would have carved that business out. We view it as an important part of what has historically made Saddlebrook Saddlebrook, so we are committed to the school and view that as a very important part of the school. Saddlebrook.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:02:32Does the new road hurt the school or help the school or

   Jordan Kornberg

   2:02:37it does not. The new the new road doesn't impact uh where the school facilities are from a tennis, golf, dorm, or uh the schooling the classrooms itself in any way. And we actually just renewed uh our accreditation for five years uh for the school uh this past week as well.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:02:54I think the other the questions the other questions have been answered, but if they come up again when they're speaking, I may ask you more questions.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:03:02We have our team ready to answer questions after we hear more from the neighbors. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:03:08Uh so before we get to public comment, do you guys want to take a five minute break? Yes. Okay. We're gonna take a five minute break and we'll take public comment.

   2:03:18How am I

   Unidentified speaker

   2:03:18gonna do this?

   2:17:00Yeah, for

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:17:21Please have a seat.

   Unidentified speaker

   2:17:30I said.

   2:17:34But

   Patrick Hogan

   2:17:34you need to hear

   Unidentified speaker

   2:17:35about it. Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:17:39All right, so we're gonna start public comment for the hearing and if we could please no applause. Let's let everybody speak. Uh there's a few groups here that have asked for extra time. We're gonna allow that as well. And then uh the clerk will go down the list one by one by one so that everybody everyone will get a chance to get hurt.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:17:55Mr.

   Unidentified speaker

   2:17:55Chairman, do you

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:17:56want to

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   2:17:56remind them about the mics?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:17:58Oh, and please for all the commissioners and also the people up front, please speak right into the mic so everybody can hear and the clerk can pick up the minutes. Okay.

   Madam Clerk

   2:18:08Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the first group we have is a collective group of Jane Graham, Larry Barbetta. Joanne Barbetta and Drew Rourke for 45 minutes uh collectively. I don't know who's gonna come speak first, but when you come up, if you can give your name and address for the record, um we would appreciate it. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:18:29What point of order, Mr. Jimmy? What group is this representing?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:18:33The Saddlebrook in total.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:18:35So they're speaking for the Saddlebrook residents?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:18:37A lot of the residents, yes.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:18:39Is it the Saddlebrook Agent Ways, is the Saddlebrook Condos Association?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:18:43It's a group of Saddleback residents that formed the group to represent Saddleburg.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:18:48How many do they represent?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:18:50Jane, how many people do you represent? Do you figure?

   Jane Graham

   2:18:53Uh actually.

   2:18:56At least two HOAs, Fairway and the Saddlebrook As Properties Association. And in total

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:19:03So those I'm Larry Barbetta. I live at [address removed] and I was one of the people that founded the Safe Saddleback Coalition. We were formed just because of everything going on and because we have five different HOAs, which we'll discuss, there was some fragmentation and we felt there was a need to have a more unified structure. So we created a nonprofit organization. It's open to anyone who owns property within Saddlebrook. It's also organized as a nonprofit coalition so HOAs could join. And so we've had the um

   2:19:34two largest resident HOAs. Have joined the coalition and we provide education, community outreach, and legal support.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:19:42So you're speaking in place of the other

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:19:45N the others that want to speak are going to speak, there's a couple other groups that had information they want to share as well.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:19:51And this group's getting forty-five minutes.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:19:52They're getting forty-five minutes, yes.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:19:56So just to clarify, we are we represent individuals, we represent the Saddlewood Property Owners Association, which has about a hundred residents, and we represent the Fairway Village HOA, which has uh just under two hundred residences.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:20:12For the record I've met with the applicant, I've met with this group, I've met with others as well. Um

   2:20:20I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. So name and address for the record, please.

   Jane Graham

   2:20:25Good afternoon, Chair and Commission. My name is Jane Graham. I'm an attorney at Sunshine City Law at 737 Main Street, Suite 100 Safety Harbor, Florida. I represent the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition, which was just discussed, a Florida nonprofit corporation dedicated to providing a common and unified voice based on the shared priorities and values that span the entire Saddlebrook community. Membership includes individual property owners and homeowner associations within

   2:20:56the Saddlebrook community.

   2:21:01The Coalition respectfully requests that the County Commission denies this amendment. My client would like to find a solution with Mast and has had conversations with Ms. Willheitz and Mast. But based on the incompatibility with the neighborhood, inconsistency with the comprehensive plan, numerous glaring failures to follow required procedures in the Comp Plan and the Land Development Code, and lack of data, my client cannot support today's proposal.

   2:21:31This is not vacant land. This is an existing longstanding community and a legendary athletic resort with a world renowned reputation. Its unique role in Pasco County must be acknowledged and considered. As you consider This large-scale comprehensive plan amendment and future land use map text amendment, remember that this is a legislative decision. So, okay, what does that mean? It means it's a major policy decision. You're changing the land

   2:22:02use on 500 plus acres. The comprehensive plan requires that you consider implications of the immediate property, also the surrounding area, and the effect.

   2:22:15As a legislative decision You are looking at the policy issues and as as an elective elected representative of Pasco County, you decide how you want the county to grow and change. A comprehensive plan amendment is your policy decision where you can deny an application for just about any reason as long as it's based on some kind of rational, legitimate reason. Courts in Florida have found that re resident opposition to land use changes as long as it's motivated

   2:22:45by legitimate and rational concerns, including issues with traffic, lack of compatibility with the area, and inadequate infrastructure are grounds for denial. It's also unlikely that denying this will expose the county to liability from the developer as long as it's based on legitimate reasons. The developer's actually asking you a favor to change the county's existing long-term plan for growth, and the burden is on them to make you agree.

   2:23:16Future land use map amendments are not intended to occur with the same frequency as rezoning, and their effect is to look at the practical consequences of the policy shift, and so you should be looking at big picture issues as we go forward and you hear the testimony today.

   2:23:36So for uh Oh, comprehensive plan amendment under the future land use appendix A1. It talks about the different standards of review and I'm not going to go through each of these in detail one by one, but these are the criteria that you need to look at, including things like anticipated demand on facilities and services. So questions about traffic are absolutely relevant to this issue, as well as EMS and

   2:24:06police and other types of public services. Natural resources and natural features are also relevant. Comprehensive plan review, which I'll get to in a second. And then transportation. Now, the land use amendment application has to comply with the transportation needs assessment. We have Drew Rourke on the line today. He is our traffic engineer, and he has had a chance to evaluate the transportation needs assessment and is going to share some. Yeah.

   2:24:39There are multiple inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan, and this is one point which is part of the criteria that you have to look at. There cannot be inconsistencies. There are actually more than twelve that I've isolated. A number of them include Issues related to um incompatibility and impact of the neighborhood character. Interestingly, 1.10.1 compatibility review, you should be looking at things like consideration

   2:25:10of cultural features and community character. So as you'll hear, and and as you're you know just from the general history of Saddlebrook, it does have a cultural feature in the Arnold Palmer Golf Course and its long-standing history as being a resort throughout Pasco County. It's something that It's well loved and it's these are types of issues to to take into account. Also in looking at the land use features, this is of an existing land use map which shows

   2:25:41that the area, I don't know if I have a pointer here, um, where development area one is is recreational, and so that's where the driving range is, and so if you're going to change that, that is a significant change to the existing land use map. I want you to really keep this one in mind. This is objective 1.2 of the future land use element: natural, historic, archaeological, and cultural resources. The county shall ensure that natural historic

   2:26:11and archaeological and cultural resources are protected. And this includes things like sites. That have the integrity of location, design, materials, workmanship, and association associated with people's, with lives of persons and are significant in the past, and also distinctive characteristics. And so the example of having these unusual Arnold Palmer golf courses, as well as being an elite athletic facility. having

   2:26:41people like Jennifer Capriotti and um Pete Sapras who had trained there, it it does have some historic and cultural significance. And so it's important as you look at how this area grows that you take these issues into account. and um other people will go into this much more in detail, but just as a little teaser, the Condi Nas Traveller has actually listed Um Saddlebrook is a top hundred golf resort in North America and top twenty-five tennis

   2:27:11resort in the world. So it's really unique. It's it's a cultural resource that's extremely important for Bat Pasco County, a piece of athletic history.

   2:27:27You also hear about residential compatibility and and transition. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, but you will hear complaints from people who live in the area of issues related to noise and concerns about the development and development area number one that could potentially impact them. Also, protection of residential neighborhoods and on-site traffic flow. Something about the on-site traffic flow that I want you to really consider is that it's not just about the traffic on State Road 54, it's also about

   2:27:57the traffic jam that you will get as a log jam at the entrance of Saddlebrook, as well as the internal circulation and delivery trucks back. up based on some of these issues. So it's and and moving the the maintenance from the front to in the center. And so these are things that you should be asking yourself, how is this actually going to impact this community? um as far as the viability of the neighborhood and the overall traffic flow.

   2:28:29commercial development is something to think about as well in that they are asking to add a little bit of extra commercial um space um and also just you know again the issue of minimizing noise and lighting impacts things to to keep in mind. Um One thing that I I do want to talk about as well without going too much into the weeds, is that

   2:28:54The fut the you hear a lot about Well, this is actually a cleanup because it's residential six. And therefore it's you know, we're doing everyone a favor. But I want you to remember that property owners aren't entitled to the most dense classification within a land use designation. And actually if you look at residential six within the comprehensive plan, it allows recreational facilities such as a golf course.

   2:29:25One last thing is in the housing element of the comp plan, you need to look at how these requests for additional residential acreage or density increases are supported by residential growth trends and I understand that you've had some discussions in the last couple of years about how are people growing within Pasco County and you know are there apartments or you know the bedroom community. These are this is going to be more information that people will provide and Big

   2:29:55picture items that you should be thinking about. Is this really the way that you think residential growth trends are occurring?

   2:30:04As far as other issues and I know I'm kind of taking a little bit longer than I imagined, so I'm gonna I'm gonna speed up a little bit. You should also deny this because it fails to meet state and county standards for comprehensive plan amendment. The Florida Statute for Comprehensive Plan Amendments requires that it's based on data and surveys, things like public facilities and services. And what you'll find is that there actually is no fire or EMS report in your materials.

   2:30:34It hasn't been done. There also are significant flaws in the transportation needs assessment, which I will leave to Drew Rourke to further describe. But what he's come to the conclusion of is that it's actually very close to being a failing road for infrastructure, and also very close to an existing failing road. So, as far as transportation, these are things from a policy perspective to be taking. Yeah. As far as police, in your staff

   2:31:05report at page six, you have a comment from Bureau Chief Chase Daniels, who actually recognized and I believe that um County Attorney Steinsnyder even re um mentioned this in the prior conversation that The Sheriff's Office is currently 64th out of 67 counties in terms of deputies per thousand citizens served, and that there is concern regarding the impact of planned developments such as multifamily developments to bring hundreds of people into a small area.

   2:31:37Now, as far as legal issues as well, there's a fundamental piece of the application missing, which is the concept plan. And the section FLUA6 of PD Plan Development in the Comp Plan requires that you actually have something that's a concept plan that identifies range of uses, density, intensity, maximum uses, and the general range. Now the thing that's strange is that you have a sub-area plan in your materials. But

   2:32:07that sub area plan has actually changed. Um there actually was no sub-area plan or concept plan at the September 2022 Plan and Commission meeting. There's actually no concept plan Um at the January meeting there was a sub-area plan. And then in this meeting, you'll find that this is the one from January and this is the one that you're just seeing now. And there there's, you know, there are some differences as far as the different uses, but what's

   2:32:38really interesting Aside from as well as not including density and intensity, which is a requirement. It also has totally different restrictions under the notes. And so for example, in January Um it was pretty restricted as far as restricted area four, which is a golf course of how it's used. If you look at the difference now in February, it now also allows um uh vehicular parking areas and Activities

   2:33:09associated with special events. And so this is actually changing the uses. This is an expansion of what had been previously looked at. Another issue that I'm kinda concerned about is number two, which says that The um

   2:33:25the l maximum levels of density are going to be subject to a land use exchange matrix. Well that land use exchange matrix is not in any of the documents that I've seen on the agenda. And it appears that that's actually looking at something that would be density, which density is units per acre, and and there's actually no calculation in these documents. So I think you should be keeping this in mind. Um the other issue I do want to raise is that the neighborhood meeting, there have been a number of neighborhood

   2:33:55meetings, well called neighborhood meetings, but what they actually are, it's a element of divide and conquer. because instead of having all the neighborhood meeting together there in all the variety of different Homeowner associations and sometimes it's even with different information showing. Um, you know, there's a little bit of questions circling. Oh, what did you hear? What did you hear? There's also a violation of section 305.1 of the PASCO LDC, which requires that these meetings are 30

   2:34:25days before the first hearing. The one that's posted here on this public notice is actually December 28th, but you originally had the hearing in September, so that doesn't happen. But then even if they were doing it now, that was only a week before the January meeting. So you will be hearing more evidence today, and I I would like to take the opportunity to submit some of this evidence into the record when I'm done. It includes Drew Rourke's report on traffic, some historic documents relating to Saddlebrook,

   2:34:56and also our presentations with photos, videos, and maths. In conclusion, you must deny because there are numerous inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan, that's at least 12 that I counted. It's unsupported by infrastructure and services, police, EMS, and traffic, and there are also significant flaws and omissions in the application and data. And just in general, it's bad public policy to dismantle Saddlebrook, which is a well-loved and elite athletic. And in its place put

   2:35:27in the right-of-way, and the first time, an apartment building and something that, you know, while it could be placed somewhere else in the county and it's not that my my my client is not anti development. They want to see their area develop in the right way. We just want it to be done sensitive to the needs of the community and acknowledging the history and culture of Saddlebrook itself. So with that, I'd like to pass on Joanne Barbetta.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:35:53Okay.

   Jane Graham

   2:35:54Do you want

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:35:54us to receive and file? file? What if was you want to hand that out to

   Jane Graham

   2:35:57us?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:01Uh that'll be after sure.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:36:03May I ask her may I ask her a question?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:05Sure.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:36:05Um it's just that I just looked and you said that Saddlebrook was in the top one hundred golf courses, was that the world or the US?

   Jane Graham

   2:36:13I think I'll have to go back. I think it's a good idea.

   2:36:17Okay. Well I mean that was a document that had been pulled up, so I mean that's

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:36:23Do you know what the last time it was ranked in one of the top 100?

   Jane Graham

   2:36:28I mean I can

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:36:29That's okay.

   Jane Graham

   2:36:30I I I just want to I mean the document, yeah. Thank you. I mean I I think it you know it's a polyclure link. Yeah. All right. So may I um put this in?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:38Do you have a motion? Receipt and file?

   Seth Weightman

   2:36:41Yes. I'll make motion. Second.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:42All in favor say aye. Aye.

   Seth Weightman

   2:36:44Aye.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:44Pass them to the clerk and she'll pass them out. Okay.

   Madam Clerk

   2:36:52Okay, so Joanne uh Barbetta if you want to come to the podium and state your name and address for the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   2:36:59Hello, I am Joanne Barbetta and I live at [address removed]. Ten years ago we came to Saddlebrook when our daughter had dreams of training at a tennis academy. The tennis drew us in, but the wonderful people, the natural beauty, and the abundant wildlife made us stay. It seems like my age.

   Jane Graham

   2:37:22Could we pause their time? Just while we do this.

   Unidentified speaker

   2:37:29And

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   2:38:51All right, go ahead. Now this historic and world-renowned resort is at risk of being diminished by mass development plans. Their plans are incom incompatible with this community's character and charm and open and green space and sense of arrival which all golf and tennis resorts have. Mass plans will increase commute times and traffic congestion while not being a significant job creator. You can see that Saddlebrook is simply spectacular. The expansive and dense

   2:39:21collection of trees, the winding roads, the spacious driving range. were all thoughtfully laid out at a scale not seen in Pasco County and beyond. The homes are spaced far apart with a lot of privacy and large open spaces. The peacefulness and serenity of that can't be overstated. The entryway welcomes visitors and reminds them to slow down and enjoy what nature and recreation have to offer. Those who designed the entryway took great care to create

   2:39:51this beautiful environment. Back in 1979, its developers required a road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest. Top golf and country clubs all share that design sense style. Just look at the beautiful sense of arrival at PGA National Resort in Palm Beach Gardens.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:40:22Um motion to receive and file.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   2:40:25We are good.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   2:40:32They all and also the Waldorf Astoria, Bonnet Creek Resort in Orlando, and Tennis Resorts in at Rancho Valencia in California, they all share that wonderful sense of arrival as you drive in. Indeed, some developers make this their priority. Those who recently bought the scenic Cabot Citrus Farms resort up the road strive to improve the overall playing experience and bring out the best of the picturesque property which weaves through towering sand pines,

   2:41:03palmetto trees, and ancient moss-covered oaks. Clearly their first order of business was not to destroy the entryway by erecting huge multifamily apartments. Yes, they're adding some housing, but it's in the form of sm small modest cottages. How in the world would apartment buildings be compatible with the lush, welcoming atmosphere inside the resort? Mass boasts over and over about building a town center, but we already have a sense of community. A

   2:41:33large group of us used to get together weekly, play tennis, and have drinks and dinner at Dempsey's. We would drive home in our golf carts, no need to leave our community, no need to get in the car and drive. We have a school here into which golf and tennis students walk or bike. There's a shared interest in athletic excellence where we regularly interact with the best elite athletes in the world. I am an avid tennis player and often stand close by watching the world's best Practice and train. It

   2:42:04was a wonderful opportunity for our daughter too. Imagine being a young player and running into John Isner by by the training room or feeling proud that your primary tennis coach was uh used to train Pete Sampras. When a developer comes in and peddles nostalgia and town center dreams, but in reality are selling high-density apartments and commercial space, it feels disrespectful. Saddlebrook values peace and quiet. Saddlebrook at night is actually

   2:42:34very dark and quiet. How in the world would a sea of cars and apartment buildings be compatible with this? Mass creates issues of security and incompatibility and then turns around and tries to solve the problems they created by essentially walling us off from each other. Two separate worlds, divided by a chain link fence, key fobs and gates. I'm hard pressed to think of anything less compatible. And I don't have to tell anyone in the room about all the uh proliferation

   2:43:05of apartment buildings around us. We see them everywhere. Mass proposal for their apartments would dwarf all of these. Mast wants to build four hundred and sixty five units in area one. The the story apartments out east, which a lot of us has seen, is only 320 units. The apartments by the outlet mall, the MAVA apartments, are supposed to be 260 units. Again, 465 units is huge. And what about the congestion and commute

   2:43:35times? Pasco County has one of the longest commute times in Tampa Bay and one of the longest in the state. Seventy percent of employed Pasco residents worked somewhere else. We are in the southern end of Pasco County and building more apartments so close to I-75 would be a natural draw for those wanting to live in a desirable area but work somewhere else. If you build it, they will come, but they will drive to another county for work. All of this degradation to Saddlebrook

   2:44:06might be forgiven, I suppose, if there was significant job creation because of it. But that is not a case. In in the Zoom, a September Zoom call, Mass representatives said, we are thinking this is meant to be some small office space, like a coffee shop, ice cream shop, and things like that. It is not meant to be a major employer. If one of the objectives is economic contribution and job creation, focusing on making repairs and improvements at the resort and the resort core

   2:44:36will likely create far more jobs. Don't we value being able to live in interesting and inspiring places, even along busy roads like State Road 54, and maybe because of those busy roads? Protecting these wonderful spaces reminds us that Pasco County is a place of beauty. If we don't protect these things, a small group of developers will have an outsized role in shaping our environment and our county. Our places become their visions. Is that what we

   2:45:06want our legacy to be? In sum, we don't need hundreds of apartments on this property. What we need is to put our efforts, resources, and creativity into proving what improving what we already have. Saddlebrook is a gem and needs to be treated that way. I respectfully implore you to protect that gem by denying mass application. Thank you.

   Jane Graham

   2:45:34Now uh Larry Barbetta will be speaking.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:45:55And Larry, name and address for the record?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:45:59Hello Chairman. Hello, Commissioners. My name is Larry Barbetta. I live at [address removed]. It's very nice to see you all and very nice to meet you, Councilor.

   2:46:11We are Working through technical difficulties. Joanne's presentation was not Joanne's presentation, so She improvised pretty well.

   2:46:22Yes, yes. Okay. Now Let me ask a technical question pointer here. The middle button. Okay. And then forward and back. Because the middle button's forward? Okay. Multipurpose. Okay, well thank you. Um I am here uh as a resident of Pasco County, as my wife mentioned. We've lived here about a decade. Um we love our community and we are here to Make sure that anything that's done in

   2:46:53the development and redevelopment of our community is consistent with the values, heritage, and builds on the legacy of Saddlebrook. So we've talked about the coalition a bit. I think you know the gist of it. is we are a nonprofit organization that was formed in response. I won't repeat everything that I said earlier. uh to what's going on. Um what I would say is that our values are the

   2:47:18unified across all of Saddlebrook. We try to protect the value of all our property owners. We want to maintain our quality of life. We want to restore and work with a company that's gonna help restore the luster and heritage of Saddlebrook. That's going to build on the incredible legacy that it has and protect and preserve its natural beauty and wildlife. And this is Saddleburg, as many of you know.

   2:47:46Okay. A little more technically. Lots of talk about HOAs, XYZs. Here is a geographic map. Of Saddlebrook, What you see are the different color codes are the different HOAs in here. So as you can imagine, one of the challenges is that there's because the community was built over time, there are five different HOAs. the coalition is open to any resident in all of these HOAs. We have members from all of these HOAs as

   2:48:16individuals. And we have the one in red, Saddlebrook, You see the red? Which is about uh like I said, uh around two hundred homes just under and their residence is important to note. The Saddlebrook POA in Blue. Just under a hundred homes. Again, these are residents that live here. And own. They're not rental units.

   2:48:40No, we have our bylaws prohibit it now.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:48:42Oh, I can rent I'll s there they are.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:48:48Okay, there are there are a few in there, but where you see them is more in Lakeside, which has different rules, which is part of the Green Association. See the green ones? And that's part of the con or resort condo. An important difference here without I mean everyone has There's values that span whether you're an owner, resident, or you're an investor. The condotel is the room product at Saddleburg. So they have to do that. an investment mindset pr principally. And what's um anyway,

   2:49:18we've had some initial communications with MAST. We are open to that. The coalition is not anti-development. We want Saddleburk enhanced, and we're not anti-Mast. We just want it done in a way that again adds to what makes Saddleburke so special.

   2:49:35Okay. So if we go back to the right-of- Saddlebrook is an interesting history, many of you know it, I won't dwell on it, but from the beginning the intent was to create a world class resort and of course play upon the natural beauty of this county and bolstered by its incredible reputation for athletics.

   2:49:58Certainly the resort Is aged. And needs attention. We don't deny that. But we also believe that we need to maintain what makes it so unique and special and valuable. Okay, so this is the core. And Saudiberg's kind of an interesting synergistic world. And when you start picking apart the pieces, It creates consequences. So the resort core is where we have the pools, all the condotel units, etc. We

   2:50:29have, as you know, two Arnold Palmer golf courses, which again is very special and unique. Certainly, again, like many things in need of attention. I'm not a golf expert, I will not speak to that. Other than I know that Many of the homes are built around the golf course and courses and designed to feature those views. Um we certainly have concerns. In spite of what was said, and we'll get into that in a little bit, we need assurances

   2:50:59that golf course views are golf course views. Because see we bought here with a reason. We knew what our properties were, we knew what this community was, we knew what the land use rights were. We know what you could or couldn't do in our backyard. You're being asked to consider things that impact that and could change that.

   2:51:20As you see, that's a very lovely house at Saddlebrook, but that's one on the golf course. This is the tennis area. The tennis area has incredible history. These are not just courts. That would be like saying, you know, where a famous musician first played is just a, you know, studio. Okay, this is what it should look like. It is not looked like that and not even before masked. I'm not throwing them

   2:51:50under the bus on this, but it has been ten months to a year and there's been progress, but certainly there needs more and I'm sure they would acknowledge that as well. Okay? But this is an area that's also covered by some of the changes. So we need to talk about that. Okay. As I mentioned, about famous people. I don't know if you're into tennis, as you can see my wife is. Sh she taught me, so I'm trying to get better. Um long way to go. But this is the who's

   2:52:20who, and these are people that train there as children. They continue to have a connection with this place. They went to school there. Jennifer Capriati, the Bryan Brothers, Pete Sampras, Martina Hingis, John Isner, Okay. And again, there's many that still own homes there. There's also many current day players that have Are on to doing incredible things, which I'll speak of shortly. So this is an incredible thing. Also in golf, like we said, we draw people because

   2:52:51of the Palmer golf courses. What's interesting and kind of subtle is these this athletic excellence is the magnet that draws people. It draws children to come and train, like our daughter did. It draws adult groups to come. It draws businesses. For golf, tennis, etc. So we need a resort product that can house that and that can service it in an appropriate way. And that's why again, as that is declined, we have a lot of challenges.

   2:53:21Okay? It has to work together, it has to be synergistic. It can't be picked apart.

   2:53:30These are just some of the golfers. Keegan Bradley, PGA Rookie of the Year back in the day, PGA champion. Okay. Saddleburg doesn't only have yesterday. Saddleburn. Has more than a past, it has a present. And hopefully together we can make sure it has a future. We'll get to that in a minute. But okay, young man on the right, national junior champion, Carl Willis, attends Stanford University now, trained at Saddleburgh, went to school there, golf academy. Wonderful

   2:54:00young man. Heck of a player. You should know this person. This is Jennifer Capriotti. Came to Saddleburg at 13 years old. By the way, she has a letter in here asking. That you look at this carefully and I think specifically asking that because it concerns that you consider denying the plan as proposed. Jennifer lives there still.

   2:54:23Pete Sampras trained there. Alvaro was his coach. Alro is my daughter's coach. One of the best guys in the world. Andy Roddick, graduate of Saddleburg Prep Academy. The Bryan Brothers trained there for years.

   2:54:41And again, let's talk present on the left, Gabriela Debrowski. Gabby has won multiple Grand Slams and doubles from Canada. She too, a graduate of Saddlebrook Prep Academy, and is a homeowner in Saddlebrook. And neighbor to Dave and Allison.

   2:55:01This is Luisa Stefani. Louise and her family came to Saddleburgh when she was an eighth grader. This is her winning. The first medal antennas for Brazil at the last Olympics. Her partner was seated two hundred and ninety-eight in the world. And they upset some of the best teams. This is her on the left. Last week she just won the Australian Open Mix Doubles Grand Slam Championship. Okay. She ha she and her family have a place at Saddleburg. Okay? So

   2:55:31we don't just have a past. We have a very much a now. I could go on and on. There's incredible depth that's That's there and we need to preserve and protect that. That is so unique. You can't get that. This is not a golf course, it's not some Muni course, and it's not a country club. For tennis. Okay. So now here we go. This is Ground zero. The driving range. Okay? It looks like a driving range and it is a driving range. The

   2:56:02plans are to make that something very different. Okay? But the driving range serves a multitude of purposes at Saddlebrook. So when we do this And I need to break for a moment. I'm really confused. Okay, I'm up kinda late, just like some of our other friends here. We're spending our personal money for lawyers. And we're looking at plans and then we come here today and there's different ones. Okay?

   2:56:33I don't understand how that's fair. I don't This is the plan that's there. Where's the driving range? Where's Waldo? He's not there. And then today he is. Now we've seen plans before. They were kind enough to share some plans with us about a week ago where the driving range was there, but then when this is filed, this is what's on the agenda. There is no driving range definition. A bunch of those slides with all due respect are not in the agenda packet. How am I supposed to know what I'm Gonna

   2:57:04comment on. Okay. So and and if you don't think it matters, my eighty-some-year-old parents, we bought them a cute little house on the fairway. Okay. They want to look at a fair way.

   2:57:19They don't want to guess where the driving range is going to be. Okay? So this still and this is the one I I guess and uh you know again I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a lay person, but I mean I d I don't understand they said that the P D sub-area plan is binding. This is a P I think this is the P D sub-area plan. Well, where's the where's the driving range? So is that not binding? This is binding. That's why that's what I'm being told. Please

   2:57:49someone later correct me if I'm wrong. So you see, it's a domino effect. And the driving range is the domino effect. It's the first domino. Because with that, what happens is everything changes.

   2:58:05And as Jane Graham pointed out, The wording that's supposed to protect the people with the golf course views How does this say I'm gonna always have a golf course view? It says I could have a view of a vehicular parking area. That's exactly what it says. I can read. Okay. It says I could have, you know, player based food and beverage. It says I could have a special events area associated with the operations. Okay, that is not that's

   2:58:36not a guarantee of a golf course view. And that again impacts. What we bought. We bought with certain expectations. And we made our investments that way. Now, the tennis area, the courts I showed you. And I and Jordan We and I even discussed this the other day. If the intent is to say it's gonna be at least 20 tennis courts, why does it say that it's 20 quote courts, which may be used as tennis,

   2:59:06pickleball, pedell, whatever? Those are lovely sports, don't get me wrong. But also look what it says. Additional surface parking. And we need parking down there. That's a tough area to park, okay? If you follow this to the letter, you can fit four pickleball courts on a tennis court. You could end up with The physical area of five tennis courts Okay, and a bunch of parking. Okay? That's a lot different than where Grand Slam champions are born and raised. Okay, and that has a huge difference.

   2:59:37And and I'm not accusing anyone of evil intent, but we need protection. These are plans that you're voting on that, as I understand, they go up, they go. I mean, this is the time. If we have a problem, we need to fix this.

   2:59:52Okay. Also we have an issue here. This is the Area One stuff. I'm not gonna go nuts because other people are gonna discuss this. But what's going to happen here is everything that's there has to get pushed somewhere. Okay, there are we're not talking just cart barns. We're talking massive maintenance things. There's giant fuel tanks, there's chemicals to run the golf course. There is also a huge laundry facility up there. State-of-the-art equipment, a little old but very powerful,

   3:00:23and does a great job. There's also a full storage area. It's the equivalent of like a giant Sam's Club. Because remember, there's five

   3:00:32Condo tells. So, what's gonna happen if your refrigerator breaks? You're gonna call it up and with the supply chain issues, wait seven months? No, they store them. So there's a whole bunch of things that are happening there, and it's gonna create a strain on the rest of the resort. We have to figure out where those are. And again, we haven't had that detail. And I don't care if we call it an MPUD or this, that, the other thing. If you can't tell me where you're gonna Put like all of the gas tanks and all the chemicals, and we don't know. That's not, that's that doesn't strike

   3:01:02me as the spirit of what Pasco County wants. Okay, so where are we now?

   3:01:11We were s I thought in the last Planning Commission hearing there was a r request for greater detail. But what we saw was almost the same thing. And then today now we see the driving range again. It seems that things are shifting every day. Every moment. I'm not seeing a comprehensive plan for a sustainable, viable resort and to take it back to its you know original state and standing. So

   3:01:42is this really the right thing to do? For what really is a true landmark. You can't replace history. You can build a new golf course. But you can't Create history. You can build a tennis court. You can't create history. We have history. I believe And the vast majority of our community believes, and I know the coalition believes, that Saddleburg deserves better. We heard some very interesting information today. From the David Engel. It

   3:02:14seems that there might be things that are better for the county. than a bunch of apartment buildings that create the domino effect. Okay? And I think Pasco County deserves better. I think we all deserve having more clarity and more information on what we're doing because your your actions have Significant consequences for everyone at Saddlebrook, all of the residents and owners there. So we respectfully ask you to deny the plan. We ask you to help us in our quest to save what's

   3:02:44best about Saddlebrook. Thank you for your time.

   Dan Augustatus

   3:02:47Okay.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:02:54There was Drew Rourke on the line?

   Jane Graham

   3:02:56Yeah, I think is I Drew Rourke is is on the line. Uh Drew, can you hear us? Can can he patch be patched in?

   3:03:06Mr.

   Madam Clerk

   3:03:06Rourke, are you there?

   3:03:10We can hear you. Um name and address for the record, thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:03:17Drew Rourke with Alex Rourke Engineering 2017, Jimmy Swift Hollow, Tallahassee, Florida. First I'd like to

   3:03:27Say thank you to the commissioners for allowing me to participate in this meeting virtually. So what we did for this is we took a look at the needs assessment that was mentioned by Ms. Graham. for this proposed development. And our review simply compares the traffic analysis to the rules outlined by the county and compared it to the industry standards for traffic engineering. We did a few we did find a few issues uh with the analysis and

   3:03:57they're outlined in the documents I think have been provided to you. So we'll get right to it and I'm gonna summarize them very quickly. Um I just wanted to note that these comments are limited to the needs assessment only and not to any other traffic analyses like the Timing and phasing analysis, which is separate. So one point to keep in mind and with this analysis is that one of the segments uh that was included in the study study area limits, the segment of State Road fifty four from

   3:04:29In this analysis, without any changes or any edits uh the way it sits today, it shows that it's within one point six percent of its capacity, which is very, very close to failing. The people's line is is projected to be five thousand three hundred and five vehicles per day. Well excuse me, grower. Uh and the capacity is five thousand three hundred ninety. So The point of that is to say that the accuracy of this analysis is very important to be able to make the conclusion that they're making

   3:04:59with confidence. The primary issues that we noted in the analysis are The first one is the study area itself. The study area was established in the methodology statement agreement with Pasco County.

   Gary Bradford

   3:05:12Mm-hmm.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:05:14And it includes state road fifty four from County Road five eighty one to Curley Road. Study this study area really is not reasonable for development of this size. There's no logical basis that was provided for the establishment of how uh of the study area itself. In the in the Pasco County Comp Plan amendment application addressing transportation, it doesn't specifically address the process for establishing a study area. However, It does state that, quote, each application will be required to demonstrate that the levels of service standards

   3:05:44are met or will be met concurrent with the impacts of the development. So I think it's unreasonable to assume that the project traffic from a development of this size, that Saddlebrook, would not have significant traffic on the development of State Road 54, for example, west of County Road 581 to a major principal arterial like I-75. So that including the segment from five eighty one to seventy five and and other segments. Uh I'm not sure that this application is demonstrating

   3:06:14the level service standards are being met.

   3:06:19I'd also note that the next segment of fifty-four, which outside of the study area, which is five eighty one to seventy five. As well as the next segment of County Route fifty four beyond seventy five. Excuse me. are showing as failing in the 2045 LRTP. It's uh the level service is failing without the addition of this additional traffic. The next issue was related to the distribution that was used. And I apologize for getting very technical, but I'm trying to explain it without Too

   3:06:49many details and taking too much time, but The traffic distribution was 65% to the west and 35% to the east. Again, no explanation of how they came up with it, other than it states the distribution of the project traffic was based on the existing traffic development patterns in the vicinity of the project. However, attorney movement count that was collected by the application.

   Jane Graham

   3:07:09Hey Drew, we we can't hear you so well. Can you try to go a little closer to the mic?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:07:16Sure. How's that?

   Jane Graham

   3:07:20Yeah, that's better.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:07:21Okay.

   3:07:25The distribution showed sixty five percent to the west and thirty five percent to the east. Uh It it stated in the report they came up with that distribution based on the existing traffic travel patterns, traffic patterns and development patterns in the in the vicinity of the project. However, there's a turning movement count which is an actual count. Um at Saddlebrook Way in fifty four that shows that percentage in the PM peak hour, which is when the study area or the study analysis period was. is actually seventy-two percent to the west and twenty-eight percent

   3:07:55to the east. Uh so that basically means that more of the project traffic should have been distributed to the west, which is where the segments of concern are. That segment is close to being over capacity and the and the other segment that is over capacity. Create an issue here.

   3:08:13There are a couple of process issues. Uh I won't get into too much detail about, but the process that was used overall. Uh basically um Allows for a lot of room for error. And again, kind of going back to that point about how the segments being so close to being over capacity, you need to be pretty accurate in your analysis. Be able to say with confidence that you're not Uh over capacity. Um I I provide those and they they provide it to Mass, their traffic engineer to, you know If

   3:08:44they would like to use that, I think would they would be able to have much more confidence if they use that process. It's not overly onerous on the applicant either. So Uh you know, it's just throwing it out there. There are also a couple of Uh trip generation calculation issues that are also summarized is a five thousand square foot high turnover sit-down restaurant. which the land use that they use for that is similar to like a Chili's or an Applebee's restaurant. Uh No, it I believe it's included and proposed to be developed in and uh

   3:09:15Uh area three, which is over a mile from the Saddlebrook development. The issue is They included something called pass by reduction, which basically means If you're driving down the road and you decide to stop into some area and and then say you're coming home from work and you're gonna stop at a gas station along the way. The gas station didn't actually create a new trip, you were already on that road. So that's called pass-by. So they don't have to add that traffic. They get that reduction. In

   3:09:45this case, with this sit down, imagine a Chili's, for example, being over a mile away from that road. Uh that's not exactly a pass by. There's some reductions that they took they're probably shouldn't have taken. Um there's a hotel description Uh in the description, they use the land use code 330, which is resort hotel. There's another land use code for hotel, which is 310. Uh there's um Finally, I'm you know I'm just not sure if this is correct or not, but there's land use code five forty.

   3:10:15They use for the uh tennis and golf academy, uh but that land use is for a community college. So Whether or not that's appropriate is questionable. So Bottom line is is, you know, I I believe that this study uh needs to be revised, including these edits that I've mentioned, for to be able to make a claim that it there's no impact.

   Jane Graham

   3:10:38Thanks so much. So this concludes our presentation. Um and now I know there will be others from the public who'd like to speak. Thank you very much for giving us so much time.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:10:49Quick question. Um this it says the study was done August of twenty-two. Um That's like not prime time peak seasons from January to March. Any effect on the traffic?

   Jane Graham

   3:11:02Drew, are you still there?

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:11:05Yeah, there's no impact because uh trip generation uh they didn't use actual counts, they used trip generation uh estimates which are not seasonal. And the distributions um Could potentially be affected a little bit, but uh again, the distribution they use probably it needs to increase based on the the time of the count that they took already. It's one of my comments.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:11:29All right. And with the I don't think I get a chance to look at it because w when did you ask for this study? How long ago?

   Jane Graham

   3:11:35Well I actually did a public records request for the study in December. I was provided a response and wasn't given a copy. I was given the methodology document. This actually this study isn't even in your agenda. I was only given it last week from MEST, from Barbara Wilhite, and we appreciate that them them sharing it with us. But this hasn't been open in the public or reviewed. And the Planning Commission hadn't seen it either, to my knowledge.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:12:00Okay. So a quick question if you can answer it. So if we're gonna use that vision road to the side. People are gonna take a right turn only. Yeah. What's that gonna do with the intersection of Saddlebrook itself, especially if most of the people there are gonna wanna head to the west?

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:12:24Yeah,

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:12:25yeah. Um That will be an issue. My understanding is this at this stage only the needs assessment is being evaluated. That issue is covered in the access management piece, which is in actually in this project is embedded in the timing and phasing analysis. So we have recognized that issue. We did not comment here uh because it's not currently being analyzed. That that will s be a significant issue, however. They would have to weave over three lanes to get over into the

   3:12:55left one lane and make a U-turn. It could create some safety issues and uh other issues.

   3:13:03Thank you.

   Jane Graham

   3:13:07Thank you very much. Okay. Uh

   Seth Weightman

   3:13:08question? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For clarity Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This traffic study was completed by Whom? Which party?

   Jane Graham

   3:13:20So Drew Rourke works for the Save Saddlebrook Coalition and he analyzed the needs assessment which was look which was done by Mast.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:13:34And what are his qualifications?

   Jane Graham

   3:13:37We've included his resume in the in the packet and I don't know if Drew if you would like to quickly speak to your um your resume and your qualifications.

   Seth Weightman

   3:13:52was based upon the mass project formula.

   Unidentified speakerVoice E

   3:14:01Um what I did was I reviewed their study and made comments on everything, including their methodology. Based on industry standards and the rules, uh Pasco County L D C rules.

   Seth Weightman

   3:14:19Thank you. So

   3:14:22I guess my c this next question would be for our staff is how's this compare to

   3:14:29The

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:14:29county's findings. Okay. Mr. Chairman M I would ask the Commissioner Oakley.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:14:39Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   3:14:39Just so that we get public coming.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:14:41Sure. Commissioner Oakley? The new vision road that's gonna come in there is gonna affect that driving range as it is. So some of those buildings are gonna be affected by our vision road and as if I'm not mistaken, that vision road doesn't it have uh Well it ha it'll have lights and actually go across Fitchvor on to the north. Well why don't we let the staff address that left afterward. So that uh that affects the traffic in that area also? It's not happening right away, but we'll let staff address it a bit later. But a subvision road is gonna happen, so

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:15:11Oh I thought that developer that has that corner starting.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:15:14Okay. Are you done with your comments at this point? Yes, yeah, yeah. Thank

   Madam Clerk

   3:15:18you very much.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:15:18Okay.

   Madam Clerk

   3:15:20Okay, so um the next one I have is Julie Pines and I believe you gave her twelve minutes. Right,

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:15:25she's speaking for

   Madam Clerk

   3:15:27I i I don't have what's the list does not say who she is speaking for, so she'll have to let us know.

   Jane Graham

   3:15:32Um and actually if we may, can we switch to have Patrick Hogan first and then Julie Pines?

   Madam Clerk

   3:15:37Sure.

   3:15:40So I have Patrick and Sherry Hogan listed for ten minutes collectively. And so Mr. Hogan, when you come, can you give your name and address for the record? Thank you. Okay.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:15:50My name's Pat Hogan. I'm at uh [address removed].

   Dan Augustatus

   3:15:59Uh

   Patrick Hogan

   3:16:01Good afternoon. Uh thanks for uh giving us the chance to uh make some comments. I'm a resident of uh Saddlebrook. I'm also a member of the Save Saddlebrook Coalition. I'm also a member of the Board of Directors of the Fairway Association. That's one of the five HOAs that Larry had outlined before. And Fairway Association is a supporting HOA member of the coalition. I'm here today to talk to you about golf at Saddlebrook and the impact of mass bills changes

   3:16:32on golf there. Currently we have two golf courses, the Palmer Palmer Courses. The Palmer name carries enormous weight in gulf. There's an expectation of a certain level of play at a at a Palmer course. Many websites including Tea Times USA, Golf Now, Golf Pass, Golf Advisor, Golf Pack Travel, reference the Palmer courses in their advertising of Saddlebrook. even masked on their Saddlebrook website. invites

   3:17:02you to, and I quote, experience our two legendary Arnold Palmer golf courses. The Palmer name helps her property value. That's the main reason why my wife Sherry and I sold our Saddleburgh Cluster home that we had bought in 2019. and we bought a larger single family home with views of pools 12, 13, and 14 on the Palmer Course. We felt good about this increased investment. in the larger home as a resort have been sold and

   3:17:34Uh there was positive news about the new owner's plans for upgrading resort. In our mind we didn't just buy a home with a golf course view, we bought a home with a Palmer golf course view.

   3:17:46We had the expectation that the golf courses were and would continue to to be viable golf courses, attracting visitors from around the world as they had previously. Mast had plans to use their words from early media releases and presentations, and I heard the statement today again to restore Saddlebrook to its former grandeur. All of this could change depending on your decision today.

   3:18:12and further your decisions in the coming months. Depending on whether you agree with Mass Vision for adding more apartment buildings to an already busy corridor, It also depends on whether you agree with Mass's vision for Saddlebrook. And further, if you believe they'll actually spend the money they say they will to restore Saddlebrook to the shining gem that it was. Mass plans are to pave over and develop the driving range. And that's why we're all here today really, is because of the driving range.

   3:18:43Saddleburg property owners have reasonable investment backed expectations that we have bought into a legendary golf, tennis, and athletic resort community. However Mass plants care more about a quick buck to build apartments and a small shopping area instead of making thoughtful improvements. to the interior saddle but consistent with its character. The current mass plan calls for a course redesign down to twenty-seven holes. We still don't have any details. We don't have any drawings. We haven't seen anything.

   3:19:14One thing that is certain is that the golf experience at Saddlebrook will never be the same and will never attract the same tourism that it did in the past.

   Unidentified speaker

   3:19:23Mm-hmm.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:19:24The golf courses are now eighteen hole courses. The holes flow together. On the Palmer course, eighteen holes are all consecutive. The tenth hole you cross Kim Carey Road It's right after the ninth hole. The halfway house, which hasn't been opened for years, was opened by Mass last spring for a short period of time, but now it's closed again. It also houses the only public restrooms on that part of the Palmer Course. Both restrooms are less than great. and in dire need of upgrading. On the

   3:19:54Saddlebook course, the front and back nines are divided by the resort area, which gives you a chance to grab a beer in between the nines, soft drink, on your way to the back nine. The two courses couldn't be more different. Most holes in the Tatalbrook course are lined with cypress tree wetlands on both sides of the fairways. The greens, while not perfect, have improved and are now very playable. The Palmer course is far more wide open. There factors lots of room for stray shots, there's lots of water, but there are big wide

   3:20:24open fairways that make even the most offline shot playable without a penalty. I tell you this because the final layout for the eighteen holes will inevitably lead to a combination of the two courses. This is sure to give the courses the feel of a good municipal course. Substandard to Palmer. Mass tells us they've hired Reen Jones, Garfa architects to rework the layout of the golf courses. Reese Jones is very reputable, but they're not Arnold

   3:20:55Palmer, and we will no longer have Palmer courses. We will have three nine hole courses. There will no longer be an eighteen hole course at Saddlebok. How do you track? tournaments and tourists without an eighteen hole golf course to offer. There are more than 1,100 golf courses in the state of Florida. I did a quick Google search and what I searched was 27 whole golf courses in Florida. Less than fifty turned up. If twenty seven holes is

   3:21:25such a great option, why aren't there more of them? Mast in their presentation has made strong statements about the condition of the courses and the amount of money that it will take to make the necessary improvements. Specifically, they also stated that the Saddlebok course is un unplayable in several months in the in the summer rainy season. I personally played the courses, yeah. Yes, they can be wet. It's car path only, but we still played the courses. They were playable. There are some drainage issues. I took some photos

   3:21:55recently that show some of the chronic wet areas on the golf course. This is uh this is Hall One in Saddlebrook. And you could oh hang on, that's not it. That's not it. Go back.

   Unidentified speaker

   3:22:10Good one.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:22:11Yeah, let me let me do it. Oh no, either.

   Unidentified speaker

   3:22:13Just the since forward.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:22:14Forward back, okay.

   3:22:19This is hole one in Palmer. And there's a chronic wet area. You can see the post down near the center there. If you have a look at the topography of the uh of the fairway The right side is about two feet higher than where the pond is. The only thing you need there is a is a working drain and you don't have a you don't have a wet area. This is the shot looking back at the green. Looking back the other way gives you better idea of the the layout of the hole. Here's another one. This is uh hole three and on uh Saddlebrook. There's a wet area

   3:22:49right here, there's a pond right there. It's not hard to figure out what the problem is there again, there's not a good working drain there. This is uh Hole 11 on Saddlebrook. Same idea between where I'm standing taking this picture and the green. There's a there's often a wet area just ahead of ahead of me where I'm standing. There's a pond on the left. Actually there's two ponds on the left. Again, working drains would fix the area. This is uh hole 15. Same thing here. The pond is on the right in this case. There's

   3:23:19a chronic wet area there just before you get to the bunkers. Same problem with the drains. They could be fixed. In addition to this, here there's some silted in and overgrown ponds that affect their ability to drain the fairways. This is Saddlebrook 1. You can see the uh the condition of the pond on the left. And then here's and further down the the fairway you'll see the condition of uh just before the green of the pond there you can see how it's overgrown. Here's Palmer 10. That's

   3:23:49the pond there. Palmer ten. Here's Saddlebrook, Ken, with all the needles and everything around there overgrown. You can barely see the drain there. All conditions that can be corrected with some matrix. Yeah,

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:24:01hang on that picture right there. If you look at the three cypress trees then to the right, you see the drain that's there. That's what I was talking about number ten. That thing is covered with with the over the grate with pine needles, but sitting there for over eight months.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:24:16Uh that was Palmer her uh saddlebook ten, wasn't it? So there's some other work that's being going that's been ongoing at at uh at Saddlebrook and this is referenced earlier today. This is uh where the chart path was repaired. But the drain was never put back up and there's been pylons there for months.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:24:35Alright, so Mr. Jones said earlier there was a pipe that was replaced. There's no pipe there, is it? Well

   Patrick Hogan

   3:24:39there's no pipe there that I ever saw.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:24:43Hole number going into hole number five.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:24:45Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:24:47Nothing there. They replace the sidewalk, there's two ponds connecting, then it will put a pipe in the place. Good. Thank you.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:24:55This is on uh the eighteenth the 18th hole and uh I want to call your attention to the area on the right. I just put this in for context and you see there's a drain just laying there, it's taken apart, and hasn't been fixed. The last two pictures, uh one on the left is uh is uh of um Palmer 11 and the one on the right is of uh Palmer 12. Those uh holes have been ongoing for many, many months. I show these pictures to illustrate that the courses need work, but not to

   3:25:25the point that we need to tear them up. They are fixable, they can be restored to the quality golf courses they were in the past. Over the past few months, my HOA Fairway has had five public meetings with MAST. All of the plans presented by Mass show the driving range being paved over and there are detailed plans for them on the maps. There's also detailed plans of area two. These two areas have been consistent in every presentation they're always there. All other areas

   3:25:56are in a state of constant flux. There's no plan. Details change constantly. The plan is being developed on the fly. And no plan all plants and all the new plans are hastily put together. Few graphic illustrations, marked up maps, and a few details. We're being asked to buy in and trust that they will invest in restoring the resort, yet there are no concrete plans. One more paragraph. I just come back to my earlier point. All of this is so Mass can

   3:26:26pave over the driving range and make millions from a high density apartment development. All of that without a binding commitment to Saddlebrook. This development helps one party and one party only, and that's masked. There is nothing in it for us as residents or Pasco County taxpayers. I ask you to save our two golf courses at Saddlebrook. I ask you to reject Mass application. Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   3:26:54Okay. Uh thank you Mr. Hogan. I had Sherry Hogan signed up with you and then also signed up separately as she s I

   Patrick Hogan

   3:27:00this is this is a very unusual situation, but I've spoken for my wife this time.

   Madam Clerk

   3:27:07Well thank you.

   3:27:11Okay, so then I have Julie Pi uh Pyrnes. Pyrnes, I think is how you say her name. Um And I have her for twelve minutes.

   Unidentified speaker

   3:27:20I wouldn't dare do that.

   Julie Pines

   3:27:23Hi guys, I've got my trusty assistants with me, brought my kids. Um they're here for Civics lesson two. They were here for the planning commission uh last month. So they're here just to listen and learn. Um and my husband will run the uh slideshow. So name and address for the record. Okay, sorry, I'm at [address removed].

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:27:43So you're gonna speak for your husband? Uh

   Julie Pines

   3:27:45no, he'll speak on his own.

   3:27:49He doesn't dare speak for me either. Thanks, Pat. Okay, so um we uh own and are investors of a three-bedroom condo hotel in the walking village of Saddlebrook Resort. We intentionally chose Saddlebrook for the vast mature nature preserve, gated security, and peaceful neighborhood with a strong sense of community. Now, like I said, I brought my two kids here today because um I want them to really understand the importance of speaking up for your community and protecting your community.

   3:28:19I think it's important. Now over the past year I've learned so much from my neighbors who have lived here over 40 plus years. I know that Saddlebrook is the sports legacy property of Pasco County. It was designed to attract all-size business groups for sports, business, leisure, bringing in people from all around the United States. Now first off I'd like to address any arguments stating that golf business is waning. Current trends in the hospitality market show otherwise. Obviously certain factors

   3:28:50such as COVID put a hardship on the industry for a short time, but those days are clearly over. New golf course development is booming in Florida as you'll see on the slide. According to Golf Pass, after a decade-long post-recession hangover, golf course development is jolting back to life in a big way, particularly in Florida. Now you'll see, I don't want to bore you with all the different courses that are being developed, but it's obviously a booming industry. And I just want this to be noted that in case you're not aware, Mast has

   3:29:20presented to our condo HOA members that they plan on taking our golf course private. thus eliminating any access to any county residents who enjoyed playing Saddlebrook for the past twenty-five years. Secondly, Saddlebrook Resort is on brand for Pasco County, which has rebranded itself as the Florida Sports Coast. Here's a quote from one of the former commissioners, Mike Moore, Chairman of the Pasco County Tourist Development Council and Pasco County Commission. He

   3:29:51says that the with recent rebranding as Florida Sports Coast, the new Wiregrass Ranch Sports Campus of Pasco County will increase our competitive role in the sports tourism market. Now Saddlebrook Resort easily dovetails with other sports projects in Pasco County. It's an attraction and boost to Pasco County having a world-class reputation golf and tennis resort such as Saddlebrook bringing in professional athletes and golf and tennis enthusiasts from all over the world.

   3:30:22You'll see that local news reports have stated the following. In 2022, Tampa Bay Times had a news article and they quoted Adam Thomas, the director of Pasco's Tourism Agency, and they noted financial results. They've said we picked up tremendous steam since we rebranded ourselves as a Florida Sports Coast, and we want to keep up that momentum.

   3:30:45It shows the practical results that happened. 9,254 jobs were supported, 3.6 million in tourist taxes were collected, 231.6 million in wages and salaries were generated. Fox News in 2023 just did an article said Pasco County grows its sports destination, gives boost to local businesses and residents. A new report from Pasco County Sports Tourism Agency, Florida Sports Coast, they found that visitors spent more than $636

   3:31:16million in the fiscal year of 2022 in Pasco County, and that is up 24%. Since twenty twenty one. Now is not the time to drive away any golf and tennis hospitality offerings and jeopardize sports related revenues in Pasco County or for Saddlebrook. Now with respect to jobs, no doubt creating additional commercial space for doctors' offices and ice cream shops in the apartment development in the front of Saddlebrook could have a positive economic

   3:31:46impact. But as part of the calculus, I think we need to consider what is being lost in the process. Now you can see the SEC filings. Historically Saddlebrook has employed anywhere between 500 to 800 workers and brought in tremendous economic revenues to the county. And again, with some thoughtful investment, it could be that again. Large groups came in and spent money inside and outside the resort. The basic infrastructure at Saddlebrook and the current business climate in hospitality

   3:32:17supports job growth at that same level today. Our resort has many acres of land that is being used for golf, tennis hospitality, business, and training school. So all of this just leaves me with a few questions. One. Why would Mast want to take an existing hospitality business, which is known, by the way, on their website? It is posted, you can find their accolades, as the top 100 golf resort

   3:32:47in the world by Condoness Traveler, and chop it up into it's a and chop up its award-winning Palmer Golf Course. Well, they say they need to relocate a driving range. But it's really so they can build multiple four-story apartment buildings and 900 parking spots in front of our community resort.

   3:33:09Mm-hmm. Why would they risk reducing Saddlebrook's golf footprint, which is what has attracted so many hospitality events and endless press and media recognition? Indeed, a few days ago, Mass Capital boasted about the importance of having both. of the Arnold Palmer eighteen whole golf courses on their Saddlebrook Facebook webpage. Here's what the lovely article has to say. It's

   3:33:39from golfing magazine. This is what they posted. Golfers from the USA, the Northeast USA, excuse me, and Canada have been flocking to Saddlebrook for years. The two Arnold Palmer design courses are surely the number one reason. Mass says it needs to reduce the course to twenty-seven holes, yet a few days later they're boasting and proud about how the two Arnold Palmer design courses are giving Sallybrook all of this attention for the golf

   3:34:09tourism world, but at the same time they want to rip it apart and replace it?

   3:34:17Mass capital brought The they basically bought Saddlebrook Resort. It is a sports hospitality resort, first and foremost, within an existing planned community of 300 plus residential homes. A community that was carefully and thoughtfully built around and interconnected with the resort.

   3:34:41In closing Golf and tennis hospitality is on the rise. Let's invest in it first, not reduce it. Saddlebrook has the existing infrastructure for job growth in the sports hospitality business. I wish Mass would do what they said they would do and focus on in this just invest in the existing structures. They have Saddlebrook, a sports hospitality business and a landmark property in Pasco. And they get to benefit

   3:35:11financially from Pasco County as the Florida Sports Coast, which you guys are doing a great job. Build up the hotel. Build up the structures you were already permitted to build within Saddlebrook. Create the walking village or town square within the resort. There are plenty of growth opportunities within the existing permitted plans, the plans that were in place when Mass purchased the resort. This resort brings in hospitality and can do so much more. Reviving

   3:35:42the resort depends on all of the Condotel owners to invest approximately $25 million to upgrade the rooms. Without that, there is no resort. Mast is asking our community to take a financial risk on our financial investment in our residential homes and condos so that Mast can profit on theirs first. The apartment development? It's easy for them to not invest in the resort if things don't work out. They can

   3:36:12just simply choose not to. Or they could pack up and head back to Miami, leaving us all with a forever-changed community without a sports hospitality resort, no landmark property business that has an existing job engine, and in turn we get incompatible apartment developments in front of our community. Please, I implore you to vote no to allowing the redevelopment of an already established business community, a community built around Pasco County's sports landmark property. Thank you. Thank

   Madam Clerk

   3:36:42you.

   3:36:44Okay. So then um Mr Parnes, uh were you planning on speaking too? Okay.

   3:36:53So name and address for the record things.

   Andrew Pines

   3:36:55Andrew Py uh PowerPoint too.

   3:37:13Okay. My name's Andrew Pines. I live at [address removed]. Thank you. Grateful for this opportunity to come speak with you. I'm gonna touch on uh a couple of the topics that were already touched on and that you were asking about uh Chairman Mariano. Mainly that uh the current proposal lacks traffic safety and and workability. This came to us in November in the mail. I talked about this at the Planning Commission. More apartments are coming. We counted on just what they presented here. There were 24 new multi-family

   3:37:44complexes that have yet to be occupied just in and around the Wesley Chapel area. I think there's eight, I counted eight just around within a few minutes drive, accessing the 54 as well. So again, all this congestion is coming even without additional approvals for additional apartments in the space. Um Here's a picture I took the day before the Planning Commission. This is pretty typical at Saddlebrook. This is just to get out, and I understand they're putting a second left-hand turn lane, but they're talking about doubling. So the number

   3:38:15of units that they're proposing in the front here is literally twice the number of all the homes and the condos and the townhomes at Saddlebrook today. Plus, all of the trips and traffic that's going to come from 900 parking spots from commercial. Real estate, etc. I don't see how this is gonna work. It's gonna create congestion on the 54, it's gonna create con congestion within the resort, uh, within the uh Saddlerbrook just from the construction. It causes safety, usability issues. I think

   3:38:45pictures speak better. So here's just the other day. Uh this is again not even using the service road that's supposed to be used. This is going. into the com into the residential community. This is what we're going to have to deal with on our roads. We as residents actually pay for those roads. And it's just unacceptable that all this construction, everything that they want to do is going to have to come and congest our community. Um here's a map, the red arrow points to what you're asking about, which is the road that they want to build to access this right off the 54.

   3:39:16It does, you know, go eastbound off of here. I've got even better slides here, but as you can see, let me see. Right here, this is the current entrance and exit. All the traffic is gonna naturally end up coming through there, and you'll see here in a second why. Um this is pictures yesterday. I went out there and took pictures. So the first one is the the end where the gate is today where they want to. I stood in the middle uh over here taking pictures of what it looks like, the traffic oncoming. Uh

   3:39:46down below this is where we're going. Uh I'll try to wrap it up real quick here. Um I did have You've got time. Thanks.

   3:39:56Um Again, more pictures. Oops, sorry. I don't know if they can hit play on this. I have. I'll just skip it. It's video that shows how much traffic is flying through here one way eastbound. I think it's safe to assume that uh the service trucks that are gonna be accessing this one little road um are not are ideally gonna be are needing to go to the 75. And here the only way they can go here is three, you know, three-lane road with massive traffic heading east. They're being asked to do U-turns. They're gonna

   3:40:26ultimately take our entrance and exit. because they know they can go to that signal and turn left and that's just already congested and it's only gonna get worse. Um I'm gonna know. These are a lot of the issues I brought up. So thank you for your time. I'm gonna stop here, but uh it just unfortunately doesn't work.

   3:40:46Thanks.

   Madam Clerk

   3:40:47Okay, thank you. So the last one I have for additional time is Nancy Foster, four minutes. Uh Ms. Foster. Why are these people getting next to the

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:54Nancy is a president of an HOA? Matter of fact, she's the lady that lives right next to the cl she's the closest house to the guard shack. So she's re representing HOA.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:41:05And the people before got additional time? I'm Nancy Foster. I live at [address removed]. And I would like to show you what it's like for me when mass builds. So

   3:41:37I made this map kind of a homemade map here. And I wanted to show you here. Uh this is the entrance going in and you've already familiar with that. Here's the gatehouse. This is where they're moving the gatehouse. This is where I live. I'm the first house. I'm 290 feet away from this. Across I'm sorry, across from me is Villa de Esta. It's the villas with twelve units. They're about a hundred feet uh m uh further than me, so they're they're even closer.

   3:42:08Uh as you know this is the golf course and you can see all the homes here that back it. for their backyard over here. We have a backyard for golf courses. This is conservation. So my concern is uh I have a tranquil place that it's going to change. Now I'm going to have noise level. Coming in. I'm gonna hear the traffic. There's nine hundred parking spaces. Things will be open till probably twelve one in the morning. I'm gonna have trucks coming in delivery. And

   3:42:39I'm going to miss My uh quiet time here. So I want to show you uh exactly, I hope I'm doing this right. Do I point it up here? To get to the next one. Am I doing that right?

   3:42:57Yeah. All right, on this side, on the left side over here, this is, I'm on my property, this is my view. I can hear the ping of a golf ball coming off the uh golf uh club and I could see um I you know players just getting ready. I don't know if this is going to be two or four stories. I'm hearing one week it's two stories, one week it's four stories. This will be my view. And probably this is the front of this, but probably I'll see

   3:43:27the back of it the because it'll probably be facing the other way. Everyone in Saddlebrook who leaves, this will be their view. Going out. So I think the next slide. Thank you. I am on Ainsworth now and as you could this is my cousin. She stood there. That's my property and that's my driveway over here and this is two hundred and ninety feet. Ainsworth is not going to be there anymore. They're going to fill that in. Next slide.

   3:43:58I this is their this is my house. Now what's interesting to me here on the is that this is not a scale drawing. So Ainsworth is gone here. See how they built it up? My house looks like it's more than two hundred and ninety feet away from this. I don't know why it stretched that long. But anyhow Right here and my neighbor, this is we're gonna have this traffic coming in, coming in through us. The gatehouse is gonna be here.

   3:44:29The little bridge that was in the picture is right about here. So my concern here is not only the noise level, now they're putting a chain link fence here. We don't have fences in Saddlebrook. There might be just a few for some reason. We don't allow fences and we don't allow chain link fences. So now when people come in this is what they're going to see. So thank you very much.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:44:53Wait, you have another minute.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:44:56I'm done.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:44:56Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:44:57Did I

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:44:59Well you did it in three.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:45:00Did I do it in three?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:45:01In three on the button.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:45:02I told you I wasn't sure. Okay. Any questions? No?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:45:07Okay. Thank

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   3:45:08you.

   Madam Clerk

   3:45:09Okay. So now um moving to the list of uh standard three minute times. I'm gonna actually call three of you up and if you'll line up. Um Mark Perings, followed by Tracy Maxie, followed by Mary Uh Kolman maybe or Kolna?

   3:45:28And name and address for the record when you come to the podium. Thank you.

   3:45:43Mark Pairings.

   3:45:48Okay. Then did Tracy Maxie also leave? Okay. Thank you, Ms. Maxie.

   Tracy Maxie

   3:46:03Am I?

   3:46:07My name is Tracy Maxie. My husband John and I own a home at [address removed]. Though we have vacationed here often over the last 20 years, we're relatively new homeowners moving here for retirement. We are drawn to the area because it is incredibly beautiful, tranquil, and has quiet private streets and teeming with wildlife. It is a slice of heaven hidden from the craziness of State

   3:46:38Route fifty four. Every day I see amazing wildlife and picturesque views. I found myself constantly sharing the beauty of the flora and fauna with my family and friends in Ohio. Many of these creatures are protected like the wood stork and are unique to Florida and certainly not seen in the Midwest. The sandhill crane is federally protected and has a state-designated threatened species by Florida's endangered and threatened species rule.

   3:47:08Its habitat is wetlands and grasslands which are threatened by wetland drainage and development. Additionally, flooding can lead to nest failure and this can be exacerbated by runoff from developed areas. Limkins are another protected bird. Habitat destruction, wetland drainage, and pollution impact them and their primary diet of apple snails. I just watched this one use its specially curved beak to extract snails from the shell. You

   3:47:39can find a resort or go to a tennis tournament just about anywhere that is going to have some awesome pool with some palm trees and high-rise apartments and lots of concrete. But you aren't going to find a combination of these things mixed with a neighborhood that has this natural habitat, an array of birds and other creatures right outside your door. So I'm not a photographer. I just like to get out and walk and use my cell phone camera and see the amazing diverse uh

   3:48:10creatures that I come across every day. And the most amazing part is that just outside the neighborhood gate is fifty four, With all the hustle and bustle of traffic I'm sorry, I'm almost done, Um and that thankfully blocks um the noise and is our buffer zone. Um by using the driving range and the lush landscaping and forest, we looked and there is no other neighborhood like Saddlebrook. Turning our diverse landscape into concrete plains

   3:48:40and picturesque views into concrete Lego structures threatens the lives of these wonderful creatures and the very essence of the Saddlebrook community. When my four year old grandson Jay comes to visit, we don't need toys or games to keep him occupied. We can just go for a gator hunt or armadilla hole expedition or check out the Spanish moss on the cypress trees. He's learning about the American green tree frogs, Lubberghoppers, Brown Anil, Wild turkeys. Even otters we saw running from one pond to another.

   3:49:11There are red shouldered hawks, wood storks, and peninsula cuter tur turtles too. You can find all these and more in Saddlebrook, whether out on the golf course or in the marshy wetlands and cypress tree forests. All these creatures' survival is impact by habitat loss, wetland loss, pollution and development. They must travel farther from their nests to their feeding grounds, which makes them more susceptible to predators and getting hit by a car. Um hopefully future generations of grandchildren

   3:49:41will be able to see these creatures with their own eyes, not like the Dodo Bird. We strongly urge you to not allow the rezoning of Saddlebrook Resort that will change the character of our neighborhood and ruin the habitat of so many interesting creatures. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:49:54Thank you. So for folks coming up, uh after your name and address for the record, you're gonna speak for we're gonna give you three minutes and then after two minutes you're gonna see the yellow light come on. That means you've got one minute to go. After that, if you would if the red light comes on, just try to wrap it up quickly. We're gonna keep it moving. Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   3:50:12Okay, Mary Co is it Coleman or Colnar?

   Unidentified speakerVoice G

   3:50:16Hi, I'm um Mary Coleman. I'm uh uh a resident of Saddlebrook. We're relatively new. My husband and I moved here this year, but that was after several years of exploring where we wanted to be in this area, and we chose it for many of the things that have already been talk talked about. I'm also a family physician who works remotely from my home and in doing telemedicine. Um the the reason I wanted to just um there's some questions that just to me haven't been fully answered and and I just want to bring

   3:50:46them up so to make sure you guys are thinking about 'em. One is um just how will this um mass development's population expansion affect resources that are already short in uh Pascoal County? And I very much understand the benefits of population. Population expansion and has a lot of rewards. But there are especially those rewards only come in if we really do our good planning, right? And accommodate the health and safety of all of us. I'm worried that the resources might not be able to

   3:51:17to keep up with the planned growth. So how you know, how will mass developments population expansion affect resources that relate to health care? Uh the total number of physicians and in the in according to this Florida Health Chart that um was done that in in Pasco County per hundred thousand is twenty two hundred and twelve versus versus what it is in Florida, which is three hundred and eight. So we already have a shortage of physicians and the pediatricians there's

   3:51:47only seven per hundred thousand versus uh an average of twenty one in the rest of Florida. Um just anecdotal evidence after coming here and myself trying to find healthcare And get it established. Healthcare delays are not unusual. I take care of a lot of people who can't get into people because they and so they resort to telemedicine. But res and I am licensed in the state of Florida. Um recently, though, I noticed that an MRI for an acute onset of knee pain was delayed for more than a month.

   3:52:17Echocardiogram to determine the gravity of fluid around the heart.

   3:52:24The I just think that the that there's there are some issues that maybe the rapid population health growth of this county has not taken into consideration and that that might be affecting us. And also um I'm wondering about how mass um projected construction expansion of the population living in the area will affect soil saturation and flooding and almost a quarter of Pasco County. is wetland

   3:52:55and it's increasing. The challenges of maintaining that uh appropriate drainage are very much there with the rapid growth. And so recent I know we read a report in the newspaper, recent Wesentley Chapel residents experienced unexpected flooding and a hundred year flood plan, thought to be due to irrigation changes caused by new developments on 56. Now I don't know I this is not my area of expertise, but I can tell you that the land and the property in S Saddlebrook where we are, our lawns are are already

   3:53:25easily saturated after rains, with limited capacity for drainage, contributing to conditions that have resulted in more mosquitoes, more grub room pub proliferation attracting a whole bunch of armadillos, poor soil drainage, unhealthy for a lot of of the foliage, including some hundred year old live oaks. So my question is, are we ready? Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   3:53:48Okay, thank you. Um the next three are going to be Liz Alonzo, followed by Patrick Colin Burns, followed by Karen Howland.

   Unidentified speakerVoice H

   3:54:20Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Liz Alonzo. I live at [address removed]. I'm a realtor, have lived in Saddlebrook since 1987, and have always sold only Saddlebrook properties. I've never left those gates in 33 years. I have.

   3:54:47First I want to just say I am totally against taking away the driving range. I'm also against changing the uniqueness of Saddlebrook, not having those two 18-hole golf courses and making it a 27-hole course. Next, this is the important thing for all these other folks. I have some real concerns that I'd like to share with all of you. We

   3:55:18had some high hopes when Mass Capital bought Saddlebrook, I included, and we have all been let down. That led me to look into what Mass Capital is doing with other properties. I wanted to see all the apartments they have talked about in their letter that they sent to all of us when they bought the resort and talked about it in their presentations. Well, to my surprise, I found two apartments around 240 plus units.

   3:55:50half of what they want to build on our driving range. I looked up the reviews to see what their residents say about living there. Well, what I read is awful. It's really just awful.

   3:56:07I brought the reviews to show you so you can see that I'm not just picking on the bad ones. I have a packet that I've given to each of you. There's a slide and a video that we're going to be putting up now for you. First is a Mass Wake Biscayne Bay video. All one-star reviews over the past year. One star. Many of the reviews say that there's trash everywhere, bugs everywhere, dog and urine smells in the elevators and

   3:56:37hallways. They state that the apartments are filthy and run down. Next Ocean Walk Apartments, which Mass bought on September 14, 2014. Out of 23 Yelp reviews, four are five-star reviews from five years ago. But there are 19 one and two-star reviews from five years until just a month ago. Hallways look like slums unpainted and dirty. Dirty office never answers. Garbage everywhere, poop everywhere. Is

   3:57:08that what we want at the entrance to our community? We want us community residents calling the county complaining constantly about the things these other apartment renters are having to deal with. And next I want to just discuss this. The question I had is, if Mass was so confident that residents of Saddlebrook would benefit and be happy with their plans, then why be so secretive and not have all five homeowner associations meet together in the Saddlebrook Ballroom to discuss it? Which still hasn't happened. And

   3:57:38why would Mass tell the board members of the com of the Condo Association not to share their slides with the members in the minutes? Mass said not to share anything with the members until the plans have been approved by the county. I have given those minutes for you to see and put in the record. In closing, I'd like to take also Nancy's minute or two minutes that she had and didn't get to use, if it's possible.

   3:58:04I ask you to please not approve the apartment for this area. We are a community and are willing to make concessions, but not apartments in the entrance where it is meant to give everyone that enters the feeling of what to expect once you enter our community, a feeling of calmness and tranquility, changing the look and feeling of the entrance, which immediately draws you in with its beautiful flowers, trees, and palms. I know you see that apartments do not belong in this area. We trust and are confident that you will give all the proposals before your

   3:58:34thoughtful consideration and how it will affect everyone now and in the years to come. I'd like to also take this thought with you. A private club is the first thing I heard today that I had not heard before. A private club. How are they going to make any money that way? There aren't that many members. How much are they going to raise the cost to be a member? That's something new I heard today. I'm just floored by that. What does that mean to us as a community and club members?

   Madam Clerk

   3:59:09Okay, Patrick Colin Burns.

   3:59:14And if um Karen Holland can just line up behind him, you'll be next. Okay.

   Colin Burns

   3:59:20Hi, good evening. My name is Patrick Olin Burns. I live at [address removed] in Saddlebrook. Uh I just wanted to talk uh excuse me. Thank you for giving me the opportunity, Commissioner and Chairman Mariano. I wanted to uh Breach or talk about a point that uh Commissioner Weightman brought up before, which is the public a uh safety aspect to this. I did bring up the public safety aspect during the Planning Commission meeting and uh I um had a question and answer session

   3:59:50with the assistant county attorney at that point in time. Um he questioned me as to why there was no comment received. Um since that meeting I understand that we received uh some comment from the Sheriff's Department. But ironically enough, I had the privilege and the opportunity for the last two days to host a training session with the Special Operations Commanders from Pasco County Sheriff. Hillsboro County Sheriff. Tampa

   4:00:20Fire Rescue and many other public safety agencies uh within our area. And being the host you can kind of set your own rules. So I took the opportunity at 10 30 this morning to stop the training and propose to them this question. Given this development, Would you or would you not comment on the effects given your department, whether it be police, fire, EMS, or other? to give comment to the commissioners regarding this proposed

   4:00:51uh amendment to the plan. And I can state for a fact that it was unanimous that every single commander in that room would respond. To this plan. So I pose the question, and I guess the question I have for everyone, and not only the County Commission, is why. There was no response from either Pasco County fire or a more fervent response from Pasco County Sheriff. I just wanted to leave that with your thought and that's all I

   4:01:21have. Any questions?

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:01:23We're not gonna do question and answer, so you have two minutes. Oh,

   Colin Burns

   4:01:26I'm good. I'll yield the time back. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:01:29Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   4:01:29Okay. Okay, Karen Howland?

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:01:39Yeah, motion to receive and finals.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:01:40Second.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:01:42I need I need a motion.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:01:45I'll make that motion.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:01:48All in favor say aye.

   Gary Bradford

   4:01:52Quick trigger.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:01:55You need to do it during your presentation. She missed doing it during hers, but just ask for it when you when you present.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:02:03Can she do it before she presents though?

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   4:02:04Sure. something that may have permission to subject.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:02:08This is this another receiving file. I'll make the motion. Second.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:02:12All in favor say aye. Aye.

   4:02:16Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   4:02:17First of all, I know this is a long evening so I'll try to keep this uh brief. Uh first of all let me introduce myself. My name's Karen Havlin. Um my address is [address removed]. I am a hotel condo owner of 21 years. And we fell in love with Saddlebrook so much that when our hotel condo degraded down from lack of upkeep, we went and we bought a condo down at Lakeside. And totally

   4:02:48remodeled it. And that's where we stay now. We still have a hotel condo, but we don't stay there, we don't bring our friends anymore or family anymore. because of the condition of it. But the property itself is spectacular. We have since also bought a retirement home, which we are um in the future are going to be renovating and hope to move down to Saddle Rook. Um A lot of property that gets developed in Pasco County is developed on or is

   4:03:18developed, bought and developed on undeveloped land. Well, Saddlebrook was a bargain, okay? One of the things I think that's important for mass capital is I actually probably should be talking to them, but it's probably good for us all to hear, is they need to understand. understand how the resort operates and this is huge. They have removed our security from down at Lakeside. And we pay condo dues and our condo dues are combined between the residents

   4:03:48full time and the hotel condo owners. Okay, so we we're paying multiple condo fees. And um so down at Lakeside where are there more residential condos, uh we lost our security down there. And they also lost our lakeside uh management. And that's huge because a lot of people who live out of st out of state, um, if they have an apartment leaking up above, you have to be able to call someone. to get it to fix. And we've spent thousands of

   4:04:18dollars in doing repairs because of uh not having that um having that contact. Now they have since I think done some corrections on that, um which is good to know. But as far as taking the hotel the first of all the resort Is the whole. is the whole Bailey Wig. And the resort hotel condo condo owners make up about 500 property owners who pay property taxes. but don't cost you anything. We're you

   4:04:48know, we don't have kids in school, we don't have, you know, police issues, emergency issues that the regular daily residents have. So we are a bargain for you. And Saddlebrook is a huge employer. So I'm not gonna go into all the other stuff, but uh a hotel condo cannot be turned into a private resident. Like was suggested earlier. Hotel condo owners have no electric bill because the condo association pays it. It is one bill. Same

   4:05:19with water. There is no parking. You have to park on the resort property to access your condo. You have to have access to a resort golf cart. to access your condo. Uh there are no laundry facilities in these hotel condos either. So they're not livable. Um but I I just want to share that with with everyone. Anyways, thank you very much for your time and um Please we we put all our hope in you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:05:46Mr. Chairman Mariano, so you asked for something to be received and filed which you didn't reference in your testimony. So what was it that you had and you asked them to receive and file?

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   4:05:58Um letters.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:05:59Letters from

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   4:06:00From residents uh writing to you about um their thoughts.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:06:05Are you gonna pass

   Tracy Maxie

   4:06:06those off? I'm trying to get everything.

   Madam Clerk

   4:06:09Thank you,

   Unidentified speakerVoice I

   4:06:09sorry.

   Madam Clerk

   4:06:12Okay, thank you. Um so I'm gonna ask the next three to line up. So Julia Bartunik would be first, followed by Denise Reichenbach, followed by Keith Swobe.

   Julia Bartunik

   4:06:24Yeah, hi, my name is Julia Bartunic and I live at [address removed] and I'm here as uh representative from the Sierra Club Pasco Conservation Committee. The Sierra Club Pasco Conservation Committee supports measures here today to preserve wetlands, concretizing wetlands, impact drainage, and in this case, P-50, the federally listed

   4:06:54endangered wood stork. To note, habitat wetland preservation for the Sandhill Crane is imperative because they will migrate back to the said same habitat.

   4:07:10section when it is paved, then slowly die. They never relocate. The gopher tortoise burrows located in these areas need preservation since they provide habitat for 350 species. When burrows are tragically covered, the tortoises die slowly, suffocating, unable to dig out, sometimes To six months, notwithstanding other species critical to a balanced environment which fosters

   4:07:40mental and physical health. Thus, the targeted hardwood conifer area needs protection. Please consider saving these critical habitats. This project, as it stands, is not recommended by the Sierra Club PASCO Conservation Commissioner. Committee additionally important for inclusion in all developments supported by Sierra Club is building sustainably compatible vertically where possible, dark sky lighting, EV charging

   4:08:10stations, solar resourcing, and EV train systems transportation. Thank you. And I would like uh to have a motion entertained, please, uh, to submit my comments into the Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   4:08:24Yeah, the motion.

   Madam Clerk

   4:08:26Placid there.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:08:27Comments.

   Madam Clerk

   4:08:29Oh there.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:08:30Does it need to receive biologist?

   Madam Clerk

   4:08:31It just comments.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:08:33Okay.

   Madam Clerk

   4:08:33Uh y they've they're already on the record, ma'am. You just I

   Julia Bartunik

   4:08:36would

   Madam Clerk

   4:08:36like to

   Julia Bartunik

   4:08:36submit the paper something resulted. Yes, I would like to submit this.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:08:40Got a motion and receiving approval. Second. All in favor say aye. Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   4:08:47Uh Denise Rai Riken. Riken Bach, I think. Okay,

   Unidentified speakerVoice J

   4:08:53thank you. Hi everyone, I'm Denise Reichenbach. My husband, Rick and I live at [address removed]. In Saddlebrook. Um, I had a whole thing, but uh I don't think I need to say That whole thing because a lot of people have already said it. Uh Rick and I specifically bought the home uh that we're in right now because it has a hundred and eighty degree view of both the Palmer and Saddlebrook golf courses. Probably about seven different

   4:09:23holes that we can see, greens and driving ranges. Um Obviously we've put a lot into it. We've had a lot of concerns and there hasn't been a lot of details until recently about what's going to go behind us. And it was clear to us that the reason that there was an area one and there was going to be the apartments there, that everything that's in area one had to move somewhere. Um what I heard today though is uh uh it was good news and I

   4:09:53believe somebody helped get it on the record, is that we were told that anybody with a that currently has a golf course view today. will maintain their golf course view. I don't know that we're gonna maintain seven holes of golf and two different golf courses, but that's a real relief to hear. And I would just want it on the record too that it's not just um a golf course view that I just wanna be clear that it's not going to be golf related, right, which would be golf maintenance and the equipment and chemicals

   4:10:24and everything and or laundry. I didn't know about the laundry. That that could be in our backyard too. So um appreciate that that's been put on the record. Very much appreciate all the the time and um and the questions and and the quests for details that all of you have been asking about. and that um that you're gonna help protect our investment in in our property in Salebrook as well. That's it. Thank you. Do you have any questions?

   4:10:54Okay, thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   4:10:56Keith Sou.

   Engineer

   4:10:59So

   Keith Swope

   4:11:02Hi, I'm Keith Swoke, [address removed]. I just want to talk about common sense. Our first trip to Salibrook was in 1979. And my first impression was the golf course is gorgeous. The sp peaceful, so quiet. I was ready to move as soon as I saw it. My wife says too far to go. So the second trip was two years later in 1981. I convinced my wife to purchase a lot to build on. Even

   4:11:33though it's 15 minutes from the nearest grocery store. Uh The benefits of a peaceful, secure sanctuary was well worth it. When this when the resort first came in, it was great. Eighteen more holes of golf, all the tennis courts, exciting tournaments, and a and a beautiful resort pool. However, the last eighteen years have not been good. It's not been maintained properly. We've been praying for a while that somebody will come in, take it over, take care of it. However

   4:12:04now we have now they have There's been a lot of changes that we don't know what's going on. And we just have a lot of questions. What are the business plans? Has anybody even seen them? Short term plans, we know those. They want to In order to rebuild the resort, the course, they're gonna have to change to get rid of the range. Put apartments, townhouse, and shopping areas, get rid of nine holes of golf. What about long-term plans? Why don't you move the range? You put fourteen plus apartments.

   4:12:35You seal the fate of the resort. In ten years a front door of the resort will be four hundred plus ten year old apartments That peaceful serene entrance will have 400 ten-year-old apartments that you drive in to welcome everybody.

   4:12:54This board is our only hope. What you decide today will determine what happens to Saddlebrook's long-range future.

   4:13:04At least See what the long term plan is. We don't know what that is.

   4:13:10There's gotta be a better way. It opened 1400 apartments. in the front door of our result. Thank you very much.

   Madam Clerk

   4:13:20Okay, thank you. The last three I have signed up are Rebecca Perings, followed by Ann Schlechter, followed by Dan Richardson.

   4:13:34Rebecca Pairings. Um Anne Anne and then Dan I think also left. Okay, so I do not have anyone else signed up um for public comment. Okay. I don't know if there's anyone else.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:13:51Is there anyone else in the public who would like to speak that wasn't on the list? Please line up.

   4:14:00Is there anyone on WebEx that's holding?

   Madam Clerk

   4:14:02There is no one else on WebEx.

   Unidentified speakerVoice K

   4:14:18My name is Geraldine Mayerman. I actually live In [address removed], but I own an apartment. At Saddlebrook in the Condotel. I've owned there since nineteen eighty five. So I'm one of the the first ones. When they talk about rental returns, there is a long list and I'm not gonna go into the details now. But If your unit is used twenty days out of the ninety-day quarter, You

   4:14:48don't get the rental returns. By the time they chop it up, and to all the different people that get a piece of it or different departments that get a piece of it, maybe we get a third. If that's right. Also I was just informed That Well, I know that they wanna do renovations and that this is gonna cost the condo owners anywhere between thirty and sixty thousand dollars each. I'm a retired school

   4:15:18teacher. I don't have that kind of money. But I may lose my apartment. Now, the other thing is they said you can take it out of the rental pool. That's fine. Except that Do they say that I'm going to lose my club privil privileges even though I Pay them? I pay them quarterly. But I won't be if my apartment is not in the rental pool. They're saying that I will not be able to even come over and play golf as a member, use

   4:15:48the pool, nothing. Um they say they're gonna allow us to lease the units for a year. But the people that lease it can't use the laundry facilities? They can't use the trash? They can't use the parking lot. And they will not have a membership. They can't use the pool or any of the other things that are around there. This is very disturbing to me. Because basically mast is Putting those that don't have large checkbooks. Out of

   4:16:18Saddlebrook. So I think you need to keep that in in mind. Um It's inconsistent to what they've been telling us. We do pay HOA fees. We do pay. Resort. Maintenance fees and club fees. And we're not going to be able to have anything. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:16:43Please every the next speaker, yes.

   Unidentified speaker

   4:16:48Seth Weightman

   Barry Schein

   4:16:49Good afternoon. Uh my name is Barry Schein. My wife and I have been coming to Saddlebrook for twenty years. We own seven units in the Condo Hotel. And we own a house at [address removed]. So we are a member of the Condu Association as well as a member of the Fairway Association. First let me say I'm not sure that the coalition people were truly transparent. They did not say how many people they represent. There

   4:17:20are many of our friends who live in Fairway that did not join the coalition. They do not represent our view. And they made the impression on everybody that they represented all of the homeowners. This is not true.

   4:17:37I am not only An owner, I am also a member of the Condo Association Board of Directors and I act as the treasurer of that organization. I've worked very closely with Mass. In preparing the budget. for the 500 and some units that make up the Condo Hotel and the Condo Association. I've they masked now has become the manager. Of

   4:18:08that resort providing services to all of the condo owners. In so doing, I worked very closely with them related to making the budget. For this year? and analyzing what had been spent in the past by the prior owner. I believe they are people of integrity. I believe they will do what they say they will do. And I believe they need to have some development. to create the earnings.

   4:18:39And the funds available to make the needed repairs and improvements in the resort.

   4:18:47As a board member I have been involved with our attorney. in drafting the declaration or deed restriction which was most important to all people associated with this property, to make sure in perpetuity The golf course would remain a golf course and not when they're gone or when they're there, more development would come before you for additional development of that golf course to lose those view and the beauty of the golf course.

   4:19:18So that is a critical part of this development plan. I wouldn't have to do that. I would encourage you

   4:19:28be swayed by a minority of people that don't represent all of the homeowners and all of the condo owners that that live in this development. I would encourage it. to in make some way conditional that the promises made here today with the plans that are here today are actually implemented. I'm a layman. I don't know how to do that. But if they do We

   4:19:58will have a better resort in Pasco County. And that resort will attract Quality people. to Saddlebrook and to the entire area. Thank you. Questions? No questions.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:20:13you've asked other people.

   4:20:15Well I just want to know how many how many homes, how many units are in Snapford? Top.

   Barry Schein

   4:20:22Do you oh th this is Mike Sullivan. He's the Go ahead. Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:20:27I can ask I'll I can ask anyone actually.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:20:30Thank you. I am W. Michael Sullivan, Professor Emeritus now. I bought a place in Saddlebrook about two decades ago. My wife and I found it, thought it was a gem, said, Here's a place we're going to learn to live so when we stop being practicing snowbirds, we can land and stay. We both play golf. I spent forty years at the University of Rhode Island teaching in what was a golf and sports turf management. Course work.

   4:21:00I have been a lead consultant on golf courses current value of somewhere around three hundred million dollars. So I have some sense of the design work and capability of Rhys Jones and Company, I have some fairly well developed idea of what the courses need, what the land needs at Saddlebrook. People repeatedly have told you the drainage system has failed. Yes, it's not a quick fix. It would require thousands

   4:21:31and thousands of yards of excavation to create it and make it functional. The same for the irrigation system. A good irrigation system has a lifespan of 20 to 25 years. These are well past that. that requires a lot of cash to repair that. Mr. Chairman, with all due respect to your golf capability, the Greens are a vast improvement of two years ago. They're still in very poor shape.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:21:59I disagree.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:22:00PGA or other league, we've tried to bring Northeastern universities to Saddlebrook in recent years for a spring collegiate tournament to help the local economy, the courses. don't need the conditions. The other real issue with those conditions are Yeah. The youthful flexibility of the student now or the younger golfer When Mr. Palmer was on the course in his best day, his

   4:22:31T-ball was 230 to 250 yards. Today, a PGO Pro on the LPGA tour, they're averaging 310. On the PGA tour, it's 330, 340, 350. It's less than 325 yards from the T-Box. boxes on the current practice facility to Route 54. So you have some safety issues if you continue to maintain it there. That's a revenue, I

   4:23:01look at it, yes, it will change the entrance, it'll change the sense of passage, but it's a revenue stream. To make the necessary repairs, the necessary upgrades, to improve the quality of the residual facilities. I look out at the proposed new practice facility. I will see a small building. that'll house the students or the residents in rain and I want to go hit some. We have spent a lot of time.

   4:23:32talking to the mass people. They have shared every rendering, every drawing, every presentation that we've asked them for. So the suggestion that they're difficult to deal with I haven't had that experience. The Give me one more minute. One more second. Um the needs of the course courses are substantive. I can live with the idea that

   4:24:02we have negotiated, and I'll leave it to them to present what I would call a very enforceable conservation easement, a deed restriction that lives beyond all of us. So that should Golf continue as it is in the nation. We're losing 100 to 120 golf courses a year in the United States. Florida is the outlier. It's even or growing 0.2,

   4:24:330.3%. That's because all of us from New England are moving here and want to keep playing. But there'll come a time where we won't. And so I like the idea of a legacy agreement that says should golf fail. You now have an area that was once two golf courses, that evolved to twenty seven holes, but also now remains is open space in perpetuity for

   4:25:03the wildlife many have suggested are their most valuable. So I would urge you to carefully consider the pros and the cons and I thank you having sat for twenty years on the local boards at home. Thank you for your seat time today and your endurance.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:25:20Mr. Sullivan before you leave your address for the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   4:25:23Oh I'm sorry. Here it's [address removed]. where my wife is and I still won't She's all the way in Rhode Island, [address removed], and I still won't speak for her. Thank you.

   Dan Augustatus

   4:25:41My name is Dan Augustatus and I'm at [address removed]. And the question I've got in this raising world of crime. I want to know if Mass is planning on converting our streets from private streets to public streets. Even though if they say they're going to keep gates, you can't stop people from coming in once it goes to public roads. Just want to put it on the record.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:26:09Highly unlikely the county would take them from them. Just yep, just experienced.

   Dan Augustatus

   4:26:18I've been in some subdivisions and they've gone from private to public and it's caused nothing but a rise in crime because they can't control it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:26:26Well looking for that.

   Dan Augustatus

   4:26:27That's it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:26:29Okay. Uh yeah, well the any any other public comment? Anybody wish to speak that hasn't spoken yet? Okay, and there's nobody on WebEx? Correct. So public public comment will be closed. Um I'll have the applicant come up.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:26:46Do you want to ask questions to your staff first? Or do you want to have the applicant come up?

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:26:52I'll ask some

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:26:52questions.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:26:53I want to ask some questions to the staff or to the board? I mean to the applicant. I

   Jane Graham

   4:26:57have one for staff.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:26:58Well just I can do it to the staff. It doesn't matter. They're here to move.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:27:02So from from a procedural standpoint, I'd rather you have the staff and then Ms. Willheid can rebut them if necessary. Okay. She comes up for her rebuttal and get it over with one.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:27:16We're gonna ask that for Terry or who's that who's coming up?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:27:32Okay. Good evening, Commissioner Yeah.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:27:35Yeah, I'm I'm gonna ask you a question. All right. Commissioner go. All right, Terry, I um I've listened to both sides and I understand what Mass has said and what what the residents have said. Somewhere in the middle is the right fix. for the residents and for maths. My problem is If we don't tremit transmit this today. I don't know where that's going to leave our citizens with

   4:28:06uh property that needs to be redone or put some things on it to bring it back to life, that it'll be uh very much more profitable, it'll be more um financially stable as far as the homes. But I don't wanna leave I don't want to say no to this and then come up And They're not at this still the residents aren't at the table anymore and you just got mass. So I'd like to see them come together. I don't know how the best way is

   4:28:36for 'em to come together. But they need to meet in the middle. So both parties win. If you know what I'm saying. So if if this is turned down today, what happens with this project? How would it go forward?

   4:28:54You mean

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:28:55to say if if the transmittal is denied?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:28:57If the transmittal is denied. What happens? Why does that leave the residence? Because I know they want something better than what some of that they have. So where does that leave them if we deny it today? So I'm going to throw the

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:29:12planning director a lifeline. Um because it's really a legal legal question. Um if transmittal is Denied. The applicant has the ability to go back through the whole process again, but the the applicant is left with res six and they can do whatever they can do in res six. and maybe whatever vested rights they still have

   4:29:43on the property. from their original approvals. You've not done a vested rights determination on this property, but The chairman pointed out that there are there are things in their approvals that they never used. I don't know whether whether this board would give them vested rights to do a nine story building. There's a pro there's a different process for that. But the answer to your question is they can do res six. They might be able to do something more

   4:30:13if the if they had were determined to have vested rights by this board. But it's not a good one. And you can ask the applicant, it probably um creates a problem for their for their redeveloper.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:30:27Right. So then that that problem causes the residents a problem also because that way they don't come up meet together and and have um maybe a downsized resort that's better than it is today because I was out there working in in the eighties when when it started and um I serviced salad with fresh orange juice from a fruit stand right there Seventy five and

   4:30:57fifty four and I was there for about eleven years till uh most all the oranges froze out. But They were very viable.

   4:31:07resort at that time. And it it was great times and some people probably remember how it was. But I want 'em to see 'em succeed, but I want 'em to meet with mass somewhere in that metal where they will succeed. I just hate Just see the fact that it would kinda go away and be whatever you can do out of res six and then of course you might get some remodeling all but I don't know if financially they'll be able to do some of that with the new way

   4:31:37they've purchased the property. So that's my concern to

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:31:42Well, I if I could. Um Something to think about. You know, our land development code. has one thing that's that starts off and the first thing we're supposed to do before we're going to go submit a plan like this, let's have a neighborhood meeting. They say that the early citizen participation in an informal firming in conjunction with development approval applications to provide the applicant an opportunity to understand any impacts the neighborhood may experience. Now I will tell you if they did Have that neighborhood meeting. With everybody

   4:32:13in one shot. And I think Saddleburg could have accommodated it very easily, as we all know. Right? Had they done that? Those that meeting could have get them the opportunity to actually consider maybe they wouldn't mind more density in the central part of it, keeping the nature all around it. But they didn't do that. Matter of fact, frankly, this thing in my opinion never should have even seen uh the process going forward because they didn't have that meeting ahead of time before they submitted, which is in the code.

   4:32:44Um It's Definitely significant across the board the land use changes being done. And you know one thing that you that you you mentioned, you know, what what's gonna happen to me if we don't do something? I will tell you the apartments out there. will be surely devastated. Never mind the apartments we had coming all around. We saw the map.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:33:02Commissioner, did you have a question for staff?

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:33:05No, I'm I'm talking because he he made a statement I'm gonna talk. And I have the floor. Thank you. Um Well,

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:33:13I think that's a good thing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:33:14You have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit Um When we l when we look at what's gonna happen to the people if we don't do something and they go try to build apartments, I granted Res 6 it could probably have limitations. That's gonna be effective to to direct d directly destructive to what goes on from what we've heard with the citizens going out there.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:33:33Well, What I see at this point It would be better, I think, that they continue it and I don't know how long that continuance should be. Go point. That Mass has a definite plan. Engraved in the sand. That stays there. that they can present to all the residents. and come up with that plan that They all meet and greet together on it. that'll make Saddlebrook

   4:34:03like it was back in the eighties much better than it is today. 'Cause I know the people coming from the north and all that's changed. uh smaller groups probably can come in from anywhere in the United States here 'cause this is a destination to come to. We know that.

   4:34:22But I just hate to see it fail because it You know, we don't have a good plan that residents can agree to. Today I can tell you what most of The residents don't seem to want anything. But in fact, I honestly believe they do want something. They just want it better than what they've been shown or told by Mass at this point. Commissioner Weightman.

   Seth Weightman

   4:34:45Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Commissioner appreciate your sentiment. My question would be Well kinda ate an impasse and you know measuring both parties. I am extremely grateful that somebody's willing to have picked up Saddlebrook and want to give it a shot in the arm and bring it back to life. It's fantastic. It's fitting into what Wesley Chapel and sports tourism market that

   4:35:16we have and then increasing the investment of the homeowners. But today I saw a plan that I hadn't seen before or my office has seen before. and uh learned a few things and have a a list of questions. Um So the piggyback off Commissioner Oakley is is it is it appropriate to continue this item to work it out because I d I'm not comfortable with Shutting

   4:35:46something down when I think if we get a little bit more time we work together to come up with a quality product and a success story here. Um so I guess my question is to count attorneys if it's is there an option to continue this item for

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:36:03There's an always an option for continuance but you haven't heard uh heard heard anything from the applicant at this point You were still in staff in community.

   4:36:14Um Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   Seth Weightman

   4:36:18So the you had had a question for staff. Yeah, okay. So my question to staff is back with the traffic study. There's a third party who conducted a study. Uh how's that measured with what The county has diagnosed.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:36:35So at the at the comprehensive plan level, we do what's called a transportation needs assessment. As a project progresses and gets into entitlement considerations under zoning, we'll do what's called a timing and phasing analysis. Um but the transportation needs assessment was reviewed by staff and the conclusion that was that that came from the assessment was that adjacent roadways will be operating within the acceptable levels

   4:37:05of service. And actually the Res 6 would generate more trips than the proposed PV would. And so that's what enabled that conclusion or those conclusions enabled us to move forward with the analysis of the comprehensive plan amendment. Um online right now is Mr. or Dr. Amir Jamali, who actually did the transportation needs assessment review. So if there's any particular questions related to that conclusion, um he could provide some some support now.

   Seth Weightman

   4:37:36Well my my question to that would be obviously this third party study is a challenge to what this the county has determined. So I'm curious to see how far off they are from one another.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:37:51Uh Amir, were you able to hear that question?

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:37:56Yes. Good afternoon, I'm here Jamoni, Center for Station Penny Luther. Uh actually

   Unidentified speakerVoice N

   4:38:06the county has not done any study. The study has been done by Links Associates, which is traffic engineer hired by Mast and we only review their traffic study. And their traffic study shows uh all of the roadway adjacent to this project, which are SR fifty-four segments, from Kelly Road to Bruceby Downs, we are gonna are gonna operate within acceptable level of service.

   4:38:36And they are not exceed V over C of one.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:38:43Under a follow-up question for that? The report that was said earlier from uh the uh transportation expert said it was at ninety-eight point six percent capacity So does that mean one point four percent away from failing? Is that is that an accurate number?

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:39:01No, the V over C of one segment is gonna be 0.98, which is 2% less than V over C of one. And it's not gonna be failed.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:39:15Uh V over C. Can you define V over C Amir?

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:39:20Excuse me?

   4:39:25Mm-hmm. Over capacity volume is the background traffic plus the project traffic. And the capacity is determined by PUT generalized tables, which is like a manual or right-up usually use for such projects.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:39:46I don't stand what's the answer in English please.

   Mike Carballa

   4:39:53Basically a V C ratio of one would equal that you rode to that capacity.

   Unidentified speaker

   4:39:58Say it again.

   Mike Carballa

   4:39:59A V C ratio of a one would indicate that your road is at capacity. Basically the volume of traffic matches the volume uh uh allowable onto the road.

   Unidentified speaker

   4:40:08And that's what the professor

   Mike Carballa

   4:40:10numerator and the denominator are equal, incorrect.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:40:12So are we at point nine eight then? W we're measuring from the level of service though, which is not What is the level of service, Amir?

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:40:24Does it get a lot of service? E

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:40:28Which i which amounts to uh what numerical

   4:40:34Down.

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:40:36The value that may say I would

   Mike Carballa

   4:40:47And while he's looking at uh your level of service on a road varies. Uh so you can have a level of service of A, which is free flow of traffic all the way to failure where it's complete standstill. So when we talk about acceptable levels of service, a level of service D, for example, would rec would recognize at certain peak times you're gonna have a lot of traffic. It's a way to help optimize the sizing of your roads. We can't build seven lane freeways to have level of service of A at all times. We have to allow peak hour to

   4:41:17congest, quite honestly.

   Unidentified speaker

   4:41:19So what's our grade? What's our letter? What so so what is R? What is the letter then? What's

   Mike Carballa

   4:41:28I'll I'll let the expert go. I I heard him say D in this particular case.

   Seth Weightman

   4:41:32There's a couple laymans out there, so I'm right there with you here. So thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:41:38How so for a D, how close are we to is the next one F?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:41:43Well I think that's what Amir's currently uh calculated.

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:41:45So Yeah, current the the capacity for the rotary segment is about one thousand and four hundred and pm But your volume is going to be 5305. So there are almost 100 trees during from the failure.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:42:08I'm going to ask a question. This might help you. I know. So let me ask a question. It used to be When we did a P D. We would have the MPUD coming with it. and in it we'd have all the documents for transportation. You guys would normally go through it dissect the whole thing and met maybe part of the report. So when we heard The land use, we would hear the zoning as well at the same time. Not for transmittal.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:42:32You do that for adoption. And that's and that's what this one is queued up to be, but not you you never uh you couldn't approve the MPUD rezoning and transmit the comprehensive planment to the state because then your zoning would be inconsistent.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:42:49You couldn't adopt it. But you would have at least that document at at some point early on where they could look at it. I mean we haven't even got the concept planned and we got a new concept plan as of today. I mean if I may,

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:43:04the the idea here, I mean

   4:43:08Th so this is a public hearing and the whole purpose of these is basically for people to see the progress of the project and may comment on it. And what we have done in the Planning Development Department is to essentially stagger the comprehensive plan amendments with the consideration of the MPUDs so that we can collect public comment, understand what issues may exist, and then incorporate Having understood and heard all of this, incorporate those concerns into the MPUD conditions of approval. We

   4:43:39bring the projects forward to the L PA and to the transmittal hearings if there is one, 'cause sometimes it's just a small scale and then And uh having received public comment and feedback We then take that information and translate it into the MPUD conditions of approval if we're doing an MPUD on such a project. And uh at that point as the county attorney mentioned, marry the two workflows together so that when the adoption comes around for the comprehensive plan amendment there is a complete

   4:44:09MP MPUD conditions of approval package that hopefully responds to all of the concerns that have been uh enumerated from from the podium.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:44:19All right, but Terry, the land use says our plan says the land development code says we do a neighborhood meeting With a full plan shown to the people. Clearly that hasn't been done. Matter of fact, before the Planning Commission was even heard, this was going to be on consent heard over in in Newport Ritchie. We were mandated back so we got a hearing. But even from that point we're getting new information back that if we're going to use the information from the feedback for the people to make something that might work. And again, as the gentleman said, He doesn't think the nine story complex would work? Well maybe if

   4:44:49you had the conversation and centralized it, maybe it would have. But we didn't have that. Is is there something wrong with doing that? I mean we just had another development where you actually shut it down because they didn't do what they were supposed to do. Shouldn't this have been shut down by not having the concept plan?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:45:03Well, I mean a a concept plan was submitted. It has changed over time and the evolution of a concept plan uh in response to comments that are being made by the public both at various neighborhood meetings but also in these proceedings, um, I think is kind of a healthy thing. because it's showing that staff is listening and the applicants are responding to those comments. Um You can't always go to multiple neighborhood meetings that are not

   4:45:33being watched by everybody, but you can come to a public hearing which is being watched by everybody.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:45:41They've got an auditorium that can feel a thousand people. This is not one of those occasions. They could have had everybody in the one room. They were asked to have everybody in one room. They didn't do it, they didn't want to do it. Well

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:45:51I I'm just saying that

   Mike Carballa

   4:45:52I think the applicant can probably speak for themselves on that one. one.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:45:56Mr.

   Gary Bradford

   4:45:56Chairman

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:45:57Mr.

   Gary Bradford

   4:45:57Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:45:58Let me me go to Commissioner Bradford first.

   Gary Bradford

   4:46:00And then I'll be

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:46:01right back. Then Commissioner Starkey. Okay. Commissioner Bradford?

   Gary Bradford

   4:46:05You know I uh I ran for this job to uh make decisions and this is a hard one. I want you know I hear everybody. I hear people making million dollars of investment. I hear uh residents saying We want Satterbrook back to its original glory. I remember Saddlebrook. I played golf there. Wasn't very good at it. Don't play golf anymore. Lived on

   4:46:35North Dale golf course, lived on Plantation Palms golf course. Cursory knowledge of golf courses. I am in no way an expert like uh a professor.

   4:46:49But I would say this. I do believe in transparency.

   4:46:56Uh, and I like everything transparent. I want to know what's going on. I want the facts. Whether it's the facts from a developer or facts from the county staff or the facts from a fellow commissioner, I want the facts. I don't want opinions, I want the facts. I get paid to make my own opinion. And uh that's where I'm at right now. So I want to put that on the table. Uh

   4:47:29The other thing that a good friend of mine told me when I took this job and one, he said, You do what you think is right. and uh always do what you think is right. And uh I haven't forgotten that. So that's my comment, sir.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:47:48Mr. Starkey.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:47:49Yeah, so I have a couple questions. Um I had the county administrator get the map that and this before some of you were on this board. Um and I don't even remember what we call this. What is this called again? Urban service area. Yeah, can you explain what this is and and hey, this has a lot more on it than I wanted to vote for, but commissioners wanted more in their district? So we expanded this. So what is this?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:48:17So the the urban service area, also known as an urban concentration area.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:48:24I don't know. I'm having trouble hearing out anyone

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:48:27else. Okay, here we go. So the urban service area, also sometimes referred to as an urban concentration area.

   4:48:40I know it's a bad way to define something. But essentially this is where you're going to concentrate all of your utilities. Um you're gonna make this is where you're gonna make your major roadway investments um and this is where you're going to uh try to put as much of a population that you can in order to service them within a smaller geographic area. So the red what you see is the urban service area. Um it it encompasses both both the west market area, which

   4:49:10is the coastal portion of Pasco County, and then the South Market area, which is the southern portion, up to about 301. The south market area matches the urban service area. Uh it also includes the uh extensions to the urban service area, which is those um uh finger like extensions that are going the up up the I-75 corridor, uh up around State Road 52, and then those uh areas along Fi State Road 54, north and south of it, um

   4:49:40just west of Zephyrhills.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:49:43Okay, and um uh Commissioner um Bradford was asking when did we adopt this?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:49:50The urban service area, I believe it was a state mandated requirement. Um do you remember the day? Two thousand ten.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:49:59And so this is our this is what we call kind of our blueprint for growth and and where where this board and this community, because it was a publicly vetted document, has said we want to put density. Is that correct?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:50:13Uh yes, the comprehensive plan calls for density within the South Market area and west market area for the urban service area.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:50:21So um if we if if there is a a company or Someone coming and wanting to invest in our county and they see this map. They know. that this is this is the law kind of that we follow that this is where we say we want density. I mean they make business decisions based on this.

   4:50:44Is that correct? They may make business decisions.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:50:47Yeah, they may make business decisions based on this.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:50:49Because this is where this is the area that we've said we want density.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:50:52This is this is where you are supposed to concentrate your infrastructure.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:50:56Okay.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:50:57That's

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:50:58And Density.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:51:02It's an urban service area. That's where you're in you're increasing your s your services. Yes, then the the consequence is that is you can approve more density because you've got facilities to

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:51:16serve. And we just opened overpass on seventy-five, adding more public investment and infrastructure in this area. And I don't know what that hash mark is, but is that

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:51:30I

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:51:30guess some of these hash marks are village of Pasadena Hills and what what

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:51:34are those hash marks that we

   4:51:35have to do?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:51:38Those are extensions?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:51:39Yes, I think.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:51:40If you recall this this was developed in the in two thousand two thousand ten is correct. It was but it was developed because Changes in state law. Disadvantaged Pasco County. Unlike Hillsborough County DRIs could not be abandoned. Their the the Dula Which was the which was the name

   4:52:10that was given to the dense urban

   4:52:15Land something. But anyway, we we devel uh the the Planning Department at the time, uh Strategic Growth Administrator, developed this concept which We fought with Tallahassee about to allow us to create the urban service area and Um and allow increased density. The extensions were areas that Folks wanted

   4:52:46to be in the But the state didn't want us to put it in the right-of-way. Said it was premature. So that's what those extension areas are are historically we're all about.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:52:58Okay. And and so my next question is and I've I've got the I listen to the Planning Commission, like I said. I learn a lot. I get a jump on Um Some of the issues coming when you listen to the Planning Commission. Like I said, I I I heard what the residents were saying about the gate, the school, um, some other things, and so I was able to do my homework and ask those questions. So that's why I put in the time listening to the Planning Commission. And I heard Denise speak. I heard the Planning

   4:53:28Commission members. questioning why they didn't have a more detailed plan and I'm looking for it here and I heard Denise explain that this is what do you call it? Um a transmittal

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   4:53:41transmittal here

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:53:42not not where all those other things get etched in stone or whatever you want to call it. So what what what are they required to submit? What is the depth of design? Because I don't think they were ready for that. I think that's why they didn't have it ready. But and I I I'm not saying that, well, I'll make that comment about their process later, but what were they required to submit for this transmitter?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:54:12Well I I don't have the actual application uh requirements in front of me to read it off the top of my head. But in general with the planned development, you're going to requ be required to submit a sub area policy that's quite

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:54:24and no one's gonna know what that is, so what is it?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:54:28Much like there are other policies in the comprehensive plan that are that are uh directing how development should take place within the county. a sub-area policy accompanies that plan development. And it it essentially defines what the development is going to be and also direct it in terms of the design. So in a sub-area policy you can start adding things in there to say, thou shalt have trails, thou shalt do this or that. And uh you can make these broad enumerations

   4:54:59within the sub-area policy. At the comprehensive plan uh stage, we're, if you if you can imagine, we're like 30,000 feet. uh in terms of what we're looking at. And then as the project moves through the its life cycle, it then gets lower uh in altitude to maybe 15,000 feet when you start talking about what kind of entitlements are going to fulfill the sub-area policy that's been enumerated. So again going back to the uh plan

   4:55:29development, you're gonna have the sub-area policy, you're gonna have a concept plan that's going to illustrate what that sub-area policy could be, but that's not the final plan. Then that plan is going to be worked on and we're going to figure out what kind of conditions are going to be needed in order for this to be properly implemented. That's what the MPUD is going to figure out. But the MPUD is not going to get totally detailed either at that point because it's simply a zoning district. It's setting up the zoning parameters

   4:55:59for how this development is going to look. It's going to talk a little bit more detail than what the comprehensive plan did. Again, given feedback and input that's being received from public hearings. And then finally, you're going to come in for a landing when it well, I shouldn't say landing, you're going to come in at about 5,000 feet with the site development, the preliminary site plans and the preliminary development plans that are actually going to design the project. I won't say Landing because landing will be when building permits get issued. But that's

   4:56:30basically how you're going to approach a project in every case. So we are going to talk about design. That is the heavy design discussions are going to come at the preliminary site plan stage when we're actually comparing what they're proposing against what's in the MPUD, but also what's what's in the land development code.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:56:48Okay, so I think I think they've gone pretty they've gone far beyond that um here already. But um that so that was one of my questions. Um and for the planning director, um do you know how many units are in Saddlebrook now?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:57:07Off the top of my head. So

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:57:08someone will get me that answer.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:57:10I think the applicant has the information for that.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:57:12Um and um on the traffic analysis, did that contemplate the overpass being opened? Or was that done before it was open?

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:57:23I I would presume that it was done right before it opened as the transportation needs assessment was submitted in August.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:57:30Okay, and also um where

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:57:32But Amir Amir can confirm. Oh

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:57:34can I speak on that? Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice M

   4:57:37Uh the usual TNA for transportation is assessment analyzed the twenty forty-five traffic connection. So

   4:57:48Uh I the common traffic in DNA so like when for the wire of course would press

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:57:56Okay. So so the answer is the answer is that it did consider overpass open because it was looking at the twenty forty five and um long range Oh. So overpass so it did consider that overpass w would be open. Yeah.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:58:14Okay. And it passed.

   Nectarios Pittos

   4:58:15Yes.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:58:16And he says okay, that's my question for the planning director.

   Seth Weightman

   4:58:19Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

   4:58:24So again, I really want to emphasize my question about traffic. What's our letter grade? What's our number? Uh I'm a little disappointed that that's not something that we don't know as we're planning projects that have this level of volume of folks traveling it. Uh I don't know if anybody's traveled overpass lately, but it's a little it's

   4:58:55it's full. Um So I guess that's a a good thing, but it's it's full. Um so again I really want to understand uh the the the traffic issue. Um

   4:59:14Yeah something that not very clarity on my next question is

   Mike Carballa

   4:59:18I'm sorry Commissioner if I could I mean if the applicant comes back up you can obviously ask their traffic engineer the question he has

   Seth Weightman

   4:59:27If the transmittal goes through today.

   4:59:31We're not obligating the county's not obligating itself. to approve the plan that's been shared with us today. It's merely approving that there's a potential project in a potential area. I want to make sure that that we understand that if it does, if there is a transmittal, that we're not locking ourselves into something that we can't undo or ask questions or modify or work through over the coming weeks, months

   5:00:01ahead. So I really want some clarity on the transmittal and what a uh should there be a yes vote, what that means to to us and for the folks out there. That's

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:00:14illegal? Yes. I'll do that one. Um So transmittal gets you the input of state government as to the plan which is being submitted.

   5:00:29You have not adopted an ordinance changing the future land use maps. That when transmittal, when DCA sorry Old A DEO Um DEO gets gets the the comprehensive plan package from us. They will look at it. They have X number of days. To make comment and get it back to us prior to our adoption. And then we have so many days to either adopt it. Or

   5:01:00turn it down. once it comes back. The only thing that today's transmitter does is it sort of locks in The maximum density that DEO is going to review and comment on. So whatever we're putting in it is all they're going to look at. So it's going to be difficult to add Things like

   Seth Weightman

   5:01:30So if it were to Transmitter would were to go forward. Come back. Board says don't like it or whatever. We can come up with a new plan and send another trans move.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:01:42Yes, I don't see any reason why you couldn't resubmit to to DEO a a comprehensive plan. But you'd you'd e you'd end up turning down that You wouldn't adopt that ordinance which in effect would be denying it, and then you be able you'd start the process over again. Okay.

   Gary Bradford

   5:02:04Thank you for

   5:02:04that

   5:02:04question. Jeff, can I ask how well Mr. Brothers Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh I remember someone saying that the state hardly ever comments on these. Is that a true statement?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:02:16The The level of commenting from that state agency has decreased dramatically in the last 25 years.

   Gary Bradford

   5:02:27Sounds like a lawyer.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:02:33They They do I mean they comment as Terry.

   5:02:38I think in the beginning of this hearing, um they do comment from time to time, but I got it. I'm dating myself, but but back when I started they'd tell you you shouldn't local government, you shouldn't adopt this.

   Gary Bradford

   5:02:54I

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:02:54I don't think that that that is gonna happen very much anymore under the

   Gary Bradford

   5:02:59sir. So I need to know.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:03:00Okay.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:03:03Um any more questions for staff at this point? We'll talk we'll bring it back up later, Terry. Okay. All right, the applicant?

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:03:24It's an unruly amount of notes here, so I have to try to Not drop off my papers. Barbara Wilhite for the applicant. Commissioner Starkey to answer your question regarding the number of units that have been constructed. Um within the Saddlebrook M P U D There's seven hundred and eighteen. There's three hundred and seventy-three resort units in the walking village. There's 172 resort units in the Lakeside Village, and there's 173 residential units in Fairway Village, as confirmed by the zoning administrator in a zoning determination that

   5:03:54she made after reviewing a whole bunch of information. Some time ago. We were gonna bring Steve Henry up, but let me just I need to address neighborhood meetings and plans and all these things. We've had multiple neighborhood meetings. We've had no request by anybody that says that they haven't been able to get the information that they need. a lot of attendance at over time at these meetings and a lot of meetings. The concept plan, the MPUD concept plan that I

   5:04:24handed out is just that. It's an MPUD concept plan. It has a level of detail that's doesn't belong in the comp plan and it and that's why you have a concept plan. But let me tell you when they stand up there and say they don't have information The first people to see that concept plan was this group.

   5:04:43Represented by Miss Jane Graham. We sent it to her before anybody else sa saw it on the twenty fifth of January. We submitted to the county on the twenty-seventh, after we met with them to go over it. We answered all their questions. We asked for comments. We asked for feedback. We didn't get any. To date, we still don't have any. I don't think you've got any feedback on anything that they would like to see us change. they oppose and want you to deny our ability to move forward. But

   5:05:13they have the information. We provide the information. We've had community meetings and provided the information. So the information is there. Staff didn't include the MPD consulate plan in your package because it doesn't relate to the comp plan. But what happens is when I try to When we try to do what we're supposed to do in the comp plan, everybody asks for more detail. Then we give more detail and then we get criticized about giving more detail. So it's really a classic can't win situation where I can tell you

   5:05:43that we're giving all the information, we're being transparent, we're having those community meetings, we're meeting with people, and but still there's this question of on information. We have a very specific PD con PD sub-area plan. That meets the requirements of exceeds the requirements of your um comprehensive plan as to what you need to do for a PD. Plan development. Um c call for an amendment to move forward. We have a sub-area policy that's got the guiding principles in

   5:06:14it. We've got a specific plan that says what we're going to do where. And let me tell you there was w a criticism about the land use equivocate exchange matrix. I'm fine with just taking it out. Because we can stand here and tell you that what we proposed on that sub area plan is what we're going to do. So it's to give flexibility, that's why you do a land use equivalency matrix is to give flexibility. But we're willing to say what we've got.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:06:39Can you explain what that is? Because

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:06:42one of the criticisms of our our documents that we heard today, Obviously could have heard this before. but we're not hearing that kind of communication. We're not getting communication with the Save Side of our coalition folks, we're not getting any communication. Um unlike the Condo Association where we've worked with them every day, daily, about where things are gonna be located, what things are gonna look like. And you can hear they were here today in support because of that level of work we've done with them. The criticism was about

   5:07:12the land use equivalency matrix. It says in the subway policy of the comp plan, it says here's What's being a what's the maximum here's the uses That are allowed in the component and here's the maximums. It's got multifamily and a number. It's got townhomes and a number. Um the yes, yes.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:07:35And so the the the report we just got with the minuscule font that none of us can read? Yeah, we're not.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:07:41No, you have a subway policy that you can read in your package.

   5:07:46Yeah, you you can you you have a subway policy in your package you can read that's exactly what the density is.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:07:52Look at the font size of that. You get all this white space down here and look at the font size you guys picked. And we get this right before the meeting.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:08:02So back to the question Commissioner Starkey asked. in the land use subway policy, which you can all read, it's in your package, it provides for the ability to do a land use equivalency matrix exchange. So it says here's w the uses that are being approved and the maximum units and square footage, but it says, oh, but we can change those numbers through the MPUD. And so there was a criticism regarding that. What I'm telling you is that I'll take that out. We don't have to have any flexibility. We're so confident what we've asked for in our comp plan

   5:08:32because we've analyzed this and gone over this for a very long time. That the densities and intensities and the uses in that complaint, we don't need to exchange them. We don't need to change them at the MPUD. So we can have the comp plan look just like the MPUD. So What I'm telling you is that We know what we're gonna need to do, we know what we want to do. And we don't need to change things. without coming back through a public hearing process. So I just want to offer that to you Um again to tell you that every time I hear a concern we address

   5:09:02the concern and that's the only concern that I heard. That I said, okay. I'm fine with that. I can live with not changing anything at the MPD level. I'll live with what we have in our comp plan and what we're proposing will be the same as what we have in the in the zoning. So I wanted to throw that out there. Let me um Have Our transportation consultant come up. There's quite a few questions regarding that. So I want to uh make sure that uh he can explain that to you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:09:30Before we get to transportation, I want to just bring up a point. Um On the

   5:09:38Agenda item I got here. It was nineteen seventy-nine. We talked about the development conference facilities up to five hundred people, nine hundred and fifty sailable condos to the resort complex, um, a new nine holes of golf. And then it says in here A road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest and have adequate alternatives for fire protection. So the service road to the side was designed specifically to give fire trucks go that way as well as all the

   5:10:07other trucks. The drive coming in, the road system setting in as you drive in where that range was, was designed to be, as Mrs. Barbetta showed, how the look came out. So when you look me in the eye and look at these board members in the eye and tell us that you listened to what their complaints were and you've addressed them. You're missing the point. They don't want the apartments. I don't know how you missed that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:10:33I didn't say that I satisfied them. I said I said that I answered I said that I answered the questions.

   5:10:43You're not gonna satisfy everybody.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:10:50Yeah, well I I have a question on that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:10:52So I just want to make sure you understand that, you know, uh the numbers for if we're talking about

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:10:57it Barbara this board asked you To have a meeting with everybody. Now, whether you wanted to do it or didn't want to do it, it didn't get done. You have the capacity to meet everybody in one shot and it didn't happen.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:11:08But you didn't do what the

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:11:09board asked you to do.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:11:10Well the board didn't ask me. You asked, Commissioner, you asked, Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:11:14We had consensus. That's correct. You asked. And we had consensus.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:11:17Well, I don't believe that to be true. I believe that we have had community meetings, we have had adequate community meetings other than these seventeen people Rest of people have got the information. They have the information, by the way. I'm not sure what else you would achieve in a community meeting other than giving information and receiving comments. And we've done that over and over and over, and we do that outside of meetings. So format of meetings. The fact is that we've had meetings, we've given all the information out, we've received comments from people that want to comment and work with us. And then there's a group. That

   5:11:48don't want to work with us, that want you to deny us, and that's what they've come here today and are asking you to do. That doesn't move this project forward. Well moving this project forward is looking at it and with Commissioner Starkey asked, do we have the information That we provided required by the code and the and the comp plan to transmit a comp plan amendment to start this process. The answer from staff is yes. My answer is yes. We actually exceed the information. that we're supposed to send for transmittal. So

   5:12:19And by the way, we're decreasing units. So all of the conversation about impact on resources, the Comm Plan allows 1,779 units. We're reducing that. We're reducing your comp plan to six hundred and twenty. And that's where I actually want to talk have Steve Henry talk to you because he actually did an analysis that he's not required to do. Because I told him go ahead and do the analysis. Because if you look at Do an analysis, transportation needs assessment, because if you look at those trips that that 1779

   5:12:49number generates versus what we're reducing the comp plan trip generation to do, it's actually a reduction. not an increase. So with that I would I'd really like for him to talk to you about the transportation issues. Let me look at my notes and make sure that my team is gonna answer the rest of the questions that were raised, but let's let's have him talk to you about transportation if you would.

   Henry

   5:13:17Good evening. Steve Henry, Lingston Associates. We did conduct the transportation needs assessment. So first I want to talk about the some of the comments that we got. And as far as the analysis we did, as Barbara had indicated, we did it actually two different ways. And I'll talk about the first way, which is actually above and beyond what is required in the code. Uh but that's what we submitted and we compared what the current the uh land use or the M PUD would allow for the total project

   5:13:48versus what we're proposing, including the total project. And so the comments that we got were the study area. That was the first one. The study area wasn't big enough. And if you look at the code under the transportation timing and phasing analysis, it says you had about 5% is what you look at as far as your study network determination. We are actually less than 5% beyond where we studied. So we in fact, the study network that is in our analysis is more than adequate based on your code. The second comment was the distribution. uh

   5:14:19that the uh the intersection of Saddlebrook Way is 72% to the west. Well that today is primarily residential. When you look at what we're doing, we're we're doing a mixed use. We're doing commercial and residential. So in addition to that, we also looked at the intersection of Wiregrass, Boulevard, and 54. When you look at that distribution, it's actually 54% to the west. So when you take those two and you average them, it comes out to be about 65%. what we used in the analysis. So we think given that

   5:14:49we're doing a mixed use development here, the distribution that's in our analysis is a adequate and actually matches what you would expect to be out there with a mixed use development.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:14:59Question for you?

   Henry

   5:14:59Yes. So you did from Waggrass Boulevard in fifty four. We did from County Road, uh we did from State Road five eighty one to Curly Road. Okay. And and when you look beyond those two segments, we are less than five percent.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:15:14Okay. Did you did you compare uh what happens at seventy-five as well?

   Henry

   5:15:18No, because seventy-five is beyond that area of we again when we look at study areas, we look at where you're at five percent. We're less than five percent. We could have studied many roads in the county, but that was the criteria that the county established and we used for the study.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:15:35Uh do you think if we were gonna uh do a a more thorough plan and let's say really take a look at this in depth? Being that we advertise Saddle Books advertise half hour from the airport. All the trips coming from seventy five. Do you think we should have

   Henry

   5:15:49looked at what that number would be?

   5:15:53is normally required for a needs assessment. What that is is looking at what the project would generate. So today As Barbara had indicated, the Res 6 would allow 1,779 residential units. That's the basis. Then we look at what we're changing, that portion of the project that we're asking for the change, the PD. When you look at the traffic that we would generate, it's actually less traffic. In fact, it's about 600 PM peak hour trips less

   5:16:25than what it what the current Res 6 would allow. Based on that, we would not even be required to do a traffic study at all. That we would stop at that point. But instead, we went ahead and did the analysis for that segment. Of roadway in which we are greater than 5%. Beyond that, we're not required. But the reality is we're not required to do a study at all. But we did one.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:16:49So if we're gonna do a study if I have any any value to it. No part pr for most of our DRIs that were approved years ago, I don't think any

   5:16:59Mr. County Attorney? They they over over allocated, so that's all factored. But when you say the res six designation, and you're talking about the units that they can get, are you basing upon the golf course in the driving range and all the common areas to be all res six and and you Units on them?

   Henry

   5:17:15I th those are the numbers that I and I'll I'll defer to our planners because those I I'm just given the numbers to use and I s and well what we do whenever we do these is we say, okay, What is the maximum number that would allow it under Res six? And and I'm actually giving I'm not a land use planner, I'm just a traffic guy. They tell me the land uses and I run the numbers. But but that is based on what And again, we do this on all of them. They're always the same. Whatever the area. that we're doing and the comp plan would allow That's what we run the numbers on. And again, but what

   5:17:45but we didn't do but that's just Looking at it from a standpoint of would we do announcement? We went ahead and did the analysis anyway based on the total project. All right, so back to we don't have that information so we'll have to ask for it later. Uh but so then so then the other question is you y y as far as the level of service and the the what we call the VC ratio, because what you've adopted in your code is a VC ratio of 1.0. But the reality is, because we're in the urban service area, If we

   5:18:15do a what's called a mixed use uh trip production project, which is Mudarum project for short. We actually are allowed to have a one point two DC ratio. And what we're doing in Area One is a Mudderum project. So the reality is And and this is something that the the board adopted to help to to develop mixed use projects that help reduce the traffic on the road by by the that mixed use, we'd actually be allowed to have a 1.2. But again, this one and the

   5:18:45other issue is on on level of service. This is a 2045 analysis. So we are looking at volumes Twenty forty five. based on the cost affordable plan, which does include The overpass. And those so this is a projection based on the county's model that they've used those volumes. We're using a twenty forty five volumes to look at this analysis. Now we come in for the M P U D We'll do a more detailed analysis as far as looking at specific intersections

   5:19:15and looking at actual counts and seeing what the impact is of a project from that standpoint.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:19:21Let me ask this as far as you're doing your s you when you talk about doing mudderum for trip reduction measures, um When I look at a development like this, an MPUD, it's a little different than just regular development coming in to go put on the edge of a project or an edge of a roadway where it's going to be built. But it You you guys would never look at the fact of let's say if they had more density to the center of the development, where people might stay in the development, never leave the resort to use the amenities there. You don't factor that in, you just go by the mudderm based upon the data the counties used.

   5:19:51No,

   Henry

   5:19:52no, no. The Mudderum is is purely just from our standpoint is purely a test as to whether or not we are a Mudderham project. From a traffic standpoint, we do look at the internal capture. We look at where they are within the re in the project and the type of developments to determine the internal capture that based on a MudroM project. And the only way to be a MudroM project is to be a mixed use project. But as far as the actual MUDRM, from our standpoint, it's purely whether it's a one or a one point two. But

   5:20:22we do look at that internal capture, yes. Commissioner Starkey?

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:20:25Um we heard a lot about traffic, um people worried that they're lifestyle is gonna change inside the golf course. Um because but that that complex out front is right at the very front. Um So, I mean you don't anticipate the park do we are we anticipating apartment people are are gonna be driving around Saddlebrook and coming back out to go into their apartments. I I was trying to figure out

   Henry

   5:20:51Well we we we are we are building the Vision Road on the west side. So we're build we're building that portion. The the initial construction of that will be right in, right out. Ultimately, that will be a full signalized intersection with fifty-four. Uh and obviously that vision road will go to um Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:21:08So a lot of traffic for that apartment and that mixed use development will be over there on the vision road.

   Henry

   5:21:12Yeah, so ultimately that that's the that's the plan. The initial construction of it will be right in, right out, but ultimately a signal will be there. And that's part of what we're looking at as far as the MPUD is the specific analysis of the accesses, the division road, the initial construction of the vision road, and the intersection. And that's one of the reasons why I think Barbara showed in the initial presentation the additional geometry that we're putting at the intersection of Saddlebrook Way. and fifty four to help with that traffic.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:21:41And um something that didn't come up but I asked about it in my meeting with the developers is the um the residents of Saddlebok don't have to drive to the shops and restaurants, the eatertainment area. They can use their golf course golf carts, they're making a golf cart path to the complex, is that correct? Or bike or walk their dogs to it? Okay. Okay, thank you. I that's all I have on track.

   Henry

   5:22:09I don't know if there's any other questions for me. Commissioner

   Seth Weightman

   5:22:11Weightman I do I do uh maybe it's just something for rookie but I I'm still not clear on this traffic

   Unidentified speaker

   5:22:18thing.

   Seth Weightman

   5:22:19I I mean just because you have a one point two availability doesn't mean it's appropriate. I I don't know how much you travel through there and the number of red lights. I know you're saying you're gonna reduce it from seventeen hundred plus to six hundred and twenty uh trips per peak time. Uh what how did you say that?

   Henry

   5:22:39Well quick. So what we looked at was the what could be built There today under the Res 6 versus what we're proposing, which was a reduction in what could be built there of the of the 600. But getting to your point on the VC ratio, that was what the County Board of County Commissioners elected to do to entice these types of developments. Because otherwise, if you end up with just subdivision after subdivision, then shopping center after shopping center, everybody's getting on the road. So

   5:23:09the idea was to try to entice people to then build these mixed use projects to then reduce that traffic on the road. And so that's what the Board of County Commissioners adopted was this the V C ratio. And it's only for that urban area. It is once you go outside the urban area you don't get that same V C ratio. So it's only looking at Yeah, the dense urban area where where they want where you want growth. and then trying to entice that mixed use type

   5:23:40development.

   Seth Weightman

   5:23:4245 year plan when we came up with this formula.

   5:23:47That we anticipate new publics going in, Walmart going in, everything that's going in on that 54 Bruceby Down corridor, we anticipated all that coming in. And adding this, knowing it bottlenecks all the way through when you travel. Well. We had a crystal ball and predicted that. Like I'm try you know, going off history, just because the rules say one thing doesn't necessarily mean it's appropriate. Is uh w where

   5:24:17I'm getting, you know, does the shoe fit? where I'm at kind of understanding. So anyway. Thank you for the

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:24:27absolute I have one more question. Mr. Shark and maybe maybe it's for you, maybe it's for someone else. But Jack, you were talking about putting that density inside the middle of Saddlebrook and leaving the golf the driving range where it is. But wouldn't that generate a lot more traffic in front of all these people's houses? So that that would be a concern to me. So

   Unidentified speakerVoice C

   5:24:49think

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:24:49of it this way. I I look at it when I go there, it's a it's an area where you can walk your dog on the street and kids can ride their bikes. It's a very peaceful community. Right. And um,

   5:25:02inside rather than outside, does not make sense to me.

   Henry

   5:25:06Right. That would increase the traffic internal to South. Yes, correct.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:25:10So Commissioner Starkey consider this. You've got people coming in from a hotel, they're gonna come into the resort, they're gonna stay there. They're not generally speaking gonna go out. They're trip. C capture pretty much when you have a high end steakhouse, when you have a Another place like tropics when you get a spa when you get thirty-six holes of golf when you get a drive-in range you get a full set of activities and a giant pool uh that's designed to have people stay right there. And I mean I've gone to stay there and guess what? I stayed there, I didn't leave.

   Barry Schein

   5:25:40Well I

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:25:40would let me let me finish please let me finish

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:25:43entertainment area.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:25:44You you you asked me a question. Let me finish the question. There's one

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:25:47store inside.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:25:49So if you're

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:25:51not going to be able to do

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:25:51And for and for shopping, yeah, great, we've got a great opportunity to go go do that. There's movie stores, etcetera. But as far as like to go there, to do all the things that are in there, that's the attraction of it. That's why it's the crown jewel of Tasco Comedy. When you have all those people it'll be When you have all those people that could stay right to the center and walk to all these things. That's what I say it's better for trip generation if they had it internal compared to when you put it out on fifty four and all those people there in the apartments, those demographics don't fit the high end saddlebrook. They're gonna go

   5:26:21out on they don't

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:26:23know what price point they're gonna be having.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:26:25It's it's just the way it is with apartments compared to

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:26:28the

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:26:28high end people coming in.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:26:29I think it's better to have that density outside of Saddlebrook than in inside and let the kids ride their bikes and people walk their dogs.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:26:37Well other than the people the other two people in the audience so far you're

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:26:40Well I'm gonna ask how many people are okay, let me go ahead and ask this question while you're coming back up Barbara, whatever. Of the lady who the attorney. Were you an attorney? Um yes. If I if I could ask you a question. And I'm sorry I've already forgotten how many residents are in. Uh sound for the How many total units are there, sir? Seven hundred and eighteen. Okay, I started to write it but I it all went so fast I couldn't do it. Render seventy three condos,

   5:27:11is that right? Wait, say that again. Barbara, come on up. You can stand two attorneys standing together.

   5:27:21No women.

   5:27:26Oh, okay. Okay, so 373 resort units, 172 resort units. Oh different villages. Um

   5:27:39Well, how many houses are there? 173? Is that right? No, no. No. Can I answer that? Yeah, yeah, someone answered his question. And and I don't want the attorney to leave. Okay. She's scoring

   Lawrence Barbetta

   5:27:49it. So in

   5:27:50the

   5:27:51right-of-way, we can Larry Barbetta from um [address removed]. So there is about a hundred and ninety some roughly in the Fairway village. Uh area. What is that? Is are those apartments? No, those are residential homes. That's the Fairway Village H Ouses. Houses. Single family houses or what they call cluster homes, which are townhouses, but those are again side by side houses. Nobody else lives above

   5:28:21you, below you, right? Okay. There's that. There's a there's ninety sum odd, okay. It can change day by day, like upper nineties in what we call South.

   5:28:32Those are all houses. All houses, all permanent residents. Okay. There's a small association we like the Ladybug Lane area that is eight buildings and thirty-two units. That's its own little mini association. Okay, so thirty-two doorknobs. Does that help you? And those are re those are residents, they're not rental. Okay, well okay, I can help you. You're two eighty Plus thirty two. Okay, so you're 312, then you've got twelve units

   5:29:02that are town homes called Villadesta. So I add twelve. Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:29:07Okay, and how many single family homes are there?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   5:29:11Um basically you could count Um About 280 plus are single family homes. That's in those two associations. Then there's those quads we call them. I'm sorry, that's the one that's the eight buildings with thirty-two units. Villodesta is like that. There's also In what they call the lakeside area, which is part of the condo association, but those are the ones that do have an ability to Airbnb. Okay, they're not in the hotel rental

   5:29:41pool. That's about a hundred and forty. condos there.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:29:46Okay. 'Cause well I saw um thirteen or fourteen houses that are not condos that are in the B R B.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   5:29:54We looked at that. There's three. It depends on what association you're in. Again, Lakeside has the ability to rent them out. Saddlebrok has clamped down. There's some people that are grandfathered in and people that break the rules. We that was voted. Yeah. But there's three houses. We looked after your question. We there's three today. One is listing it a couple times.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:30:13Thank you so much. So my question for the attorney is how many people are in your group that you're representing? How many people are signed up? And paying or whatever, paying into your group.

   Jane Graham

   5:30:26So that's something I also I think that you can speak to. Now the group includes both the f the fair way and I don't I don't mean people who

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:30:34came to a meeting. I mean people who are paying for your salary to represent them.

   Jane Graham

   5:30:38Right. So I can speak to the associations and then he can speak to other the actual numbers. It includes two of the home. Owner associations.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:30:47That's not what I'm asking.

   Jane Graham

   5:30:48The fair way, but I'm going if you let me finish, what I can tell you is that as a representation, they re the there was a vote for these individual homeowner associations and they voted to retain to become part of the Saddle Save Saddlebrook Coalition. Fairway has 190 and Saddlebrook POA has what is it, ninety something.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:31:11Ninety five. So did a hundred percent of those residents vote to retain you?

   Jane Graham

   5:31:16The the board members did. They are

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:31:18a false statement. That's what I'm kinda getting on the record. No it's not.

   Jane Graham

   5:31:23The board mem there's a vote, just like how a HOA works. You have a vote, a majority vote, and the majority is voted to have the board of the board. Yes Of the boards, yeah. And uh Mr uh Pat Hogan is here from Fairway. And um Nancy is here too. And Nancy is here as well. They can speak to the votes. We're not m misrepresenting anything. And I I do take um a little bit of offense to that that, you know, you would make it seem like I am misrepresenting a fact as an attorney. I would not have to be a good thing. I just wanted

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:31:53to know how many people are signed up 'cause we get a lot we we go through a lot of these and Um sometimes people are very vocal but they're not representing the majority. It happens a lot. So we have to be careful.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   5:32:09Well we've worked pretty hard on that and we've met like they said. We uh the the boards had the authority, that's what the boards do, and the reason we formed this was b for a variety of reasons, such as like most of the boards have elections that would be in the middle of this decision cycle. So we could end up not having an attorney retained. They start and stop. and a bunch of other good reasons, so that's why we did that. Beyond that we also have probably about seventy some odd different individuals that have signed up so far. And the

   5:32:39amounts can vary. We do it I mean we if someone has five bucks and they want to put it in, that's fine. We don't make a profit. We are gonna redistribute back to every homeowner and every HOA on a pro rata basis, whatever they paid that we don't use. You know, we're I mean, goodness, we're you know, I we have real jobs that we are not doing as well because we're dealing with it. You did a great job. Okay, so we're not and and you know please

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:33:07know how much you guys how what are the population you represent? Well

   Lawrence Barbetta

   5:33:11I mean you know

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:33:12And that's a fair question.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   5:33:13It is a perfectly fair question and I and I hope we've represented it with complete genuine uh you know and transparency. Okay. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:33:20Thank you very much.

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:33:25Commissioner Oakley

   5:33:29gave you are Not all of this project are within the m MPUD. Which is odd. But there are some homes that aren't within the M P. Some of the things that some of those units are not within the M P. So the determination that staff made was relative to units that are constructed within the M P U D and they went and pulled all the records and and and and make it more complicated it was yeah, so that's so that's why those Numbers are a little bit different because we're looking at it from the MPUD perspective and they're looking at it from M

   5:34:00P U D and non M PU D 'cause remember this dates back to nineteen eighty six, so it's You know, it's not the way everything always appears today when we do these types of zonings. So that just wanna explain that difference.

   5:34:14Yes. Uh

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:34:15we

   Barbara Wilhite

   5:34:15finished. Go ahead. No, no, that was all I was gonna say. I said Jordan had a few things he w he wanted to address relative to things said about master or the like, but I would love to answer your question, Commissioner.

   Seth Weightman

   5:34:26I don't I don't have a question. I was gonna try to bring this in for a landing. Well I have

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:34:31a question. Um so let's bring up Jordan then. Okay. Thank you.

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:34:43Thank you all. So I just wanted to go through some of the things said and, you know, make clear that ninety five percent of the comments that came out of the thirteen people that spoke against us, we agree with, right? We want the golf course to be better. They talk about protecting their house views. Our D restriction in fact does that. Today they have no protection, right? There is no HOA protection over that golf course today in any way whatsoever in its own Dres Six as we talked about. You know, they a lot of history of the tennis players that came through Saddleburgh. We are aligned and the majority

   5:35:13of our plan is aligned with them. So, you know We talked Barbara mentioned it, but you know, there's really no concrete feedback for us to change our plans from what we've seen. Um going through some of the specific points that that were raised. You know, uh Mr. Barbetta talked about 20 courts and the discrepancy between courts and tennis courts. Him and I actually spoke last week at one of the community meetings which he was present at, and I assured him it was 20 of the 27 tennis courts in my presentation. I specifically said change the language there versus otherwise

   5:35:44to give that assurance. And again, had he been willing to work with us, we would change that language. We'd give him that assurance. But he continues to bring it up despite that happening and despite us showing it as part of our plan. You know, I asked him as part of that, that we presented multiple weeks ago our plan and we presented over and over again when we'd have feedback and the answer I got is you represent too many people, it's going to be a very long time. There's nothing for us to do for that. Um You know, changes to our plans is a c concern that's come up. The reasons our plans have changed is because we have worked with a significant majority

   5:36:14of this community and we have addressed their comments. So if if we our plans weren't changing, it's it would be because we weren't addressing the comments. You know, about half of the number of people showed up here today from our planning department meeting, for all of you who watched it. I strongly believe that's because their concerns were addressed. They no longer showed up. You know, getting into there was talks about the 27-hole golf course and that there's no eighteen-hole course. There's actually three eighteen-hole courses. You have an A9, a B9, and a C9, and you

   5:36:44can combine A and B, B and C, and A and C. So there's three different eighteen-hole courses that exist there. Um so the idea that there's not a single eighteen-hole course is just false. Um you know we will have three different options for an eighteen-hole course. Um Yeah. Yeah, there's talks a lot about not having concrete plans for our renovation. Renovating all the existing buildings that are there takes a lot of time, planning, and effort, and given the age of the building. We've shared with every community a very detailed presentation that goes space by space

   5:37:14with our resort plans. So everybody knows exactly what our plans are. So a comment that we haven't shared our plans is just wrong. And they're not fully finalized yet, they're evolving, but we have shared all of the plans that we have to date with the homeowners. Um Uh talking about our apartment buildings, Ocean Walk, we haven't owned for five years. So the comment that actually five years ago, the comments were good and now they're bad. Well, five years ago is when we owned it, so I think that's actually an endorsement for our ability to oversee apartments.

   5:37:45Uh and the other building that was shown had damage post-Hurricane Arma, and we had residents that chose to continue to live there through those repairs related to the storm, and you know it was unfortunate. Unfortunately, because we were doing those repair works, not perfect, but we did the best we could given we got hit by a hurricane. Um

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:38:06That's

   5:38:09Well while you while you think about your next thing, let me just let me just c comment to what you just said. So think about the people here on Sadwork and one of them people mentioned it earlier in their comments. What's going to happen 20, 30 years down the road? You just mentioned what if you guys just come in here? You go build the apartments. Make all your money and you decide look, you know what, we're just gonna move on. And now somebody else comes in here and they leave it behind, just like the people that suffered before. What are these people that

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:38:35do then? So ultimately, if our plan was to do that, again, we've spent five million on our ownership to date, we're spending five million dollars this year. If we were planning to leave the resort behind, it's been 15 years since there's been any capital investment. Would it be at all a rational business decision for us to spend $10 million in a resort that we're actually not going to improve the full way? I mean, it it's and plus, as we all know, this resort is losing. Money today, right? The resort loses money. That's that is no secret. Um it's

   5:39:06not like this the resort is a amazing saleable asset. We want to improve the entire community. The deed restriction also speaks to how much we value the community because again, there's no requirement on us to do that. Um so I think we have shown our intentions, and I think every step of the way, we've shown you know that we are doing the right thing, we've answered questions. Um And so I think that speaks louder than anything else we could do.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:39:29Well, I'll I'll say this. You know, we asked for the big town hall meeting. Uh why didn't you have a meeting with everybody there in one shot? Why did you do separate meetings for everybody?

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:39:36Tell me that. Ul ultimately we decided to have different meetings with all the different associations. Uh you know, the capacity of the room. We don't have A the same A V level to do in the uh Seriously uh as easily. But you know, at the end of the day, required by code, we're we can have different meetings, right? And so we chose to have different meetings logistically. We everybody had a chance to speak. You know, again, I spoke with members of this coalition as part of those. Meetings, none of the concerns raised here were raised to me, right? They all had a chance to go. Barbara

   5:40:06mentioned how many people were were noticed to it. You know, whether it's one meeting or three meetings, I'm not sure what the distinction is between that. Every single person got the same presentation, every single person had public question and answer. There's meeting minutes that we have regarding that meeting. And after almost every meeting, I stayed two hours to talk to people. And And you know, that's a significant amount of time. Lots of quiz questions raised, but almost nothing of what was brought up here was brought up to us in those settings and in those meetings.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:40:38Uh I I have to

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:40:39Commissioner Weightman.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:40:40Okay. I'm

   Aaron Landry

   5:40:43laying in the plane.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:40:44Oh no, but I saw it.

   5:40:47It is not yet nine o'clock. Um okay, I have a question for you and and um so I'm a member of a golf club. It's called Cypher Sword.

   5:41:00It is an I think it's an equity golf club. What's the difference between an equity golf club and a non-equity golf club?

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:41:08So if you're part of an equity golf club, you actually are a part owner of the club itself versus a non-equity membership where you just are a member with with membership rights.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:41:18Is Saddlebrook an equity or non-equity?

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:41:21Non-equity.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:41:22So what does that mean to my fellow board members who may not know the difference? As far as the responsibility, I mean one is a business. And the other one is everyone who lives there is in the business, right?

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:41:38Cr correct. If you're part of an equity club, you you own part of that club. If there's improvements, you're gonna pay for part of those improvements. Um you know if there's excess profitability, you're gonna ultimately benefit from that. If you're a non-equity member If we're making improvements, that's 100% on us ultimately. We're responsible for those costs. You continue to have your membership rights. There's club documents that obviously dictate what can and can't happen and what rights you have, etc. But you know, as an equity member, you actually own

   5:42:08that club.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:42:09So I'm guessing and Um that when people bought in Saddlebrook there was some kind of covenants when you move into a neighborhood like that regarding or is I mean, were there any rules regarding the business of the golf course? No and clubs That so there's a difference when you live in an equity golf community and a non-equity golf community. And I think that's part of what's brought so much angst here today. And I I feel for the residents,

   5:42:39but they're in a non-equity golf community, and there is a difference.

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:42:46And further than that, I'd even say that a lot of HOAs that aren't even equity golf communities have provisions in the HOA documents themselves dictating what can and can't happen to that golf course. That does not exist here, right? Our deed restriction does that. So, you know, the talk of protecting views and the talk of you know wanting the golf course to be a golf course. You know, none of that has existed in the past. So I understand people bought based on those views, but to be clear, none of that was rooted in any document that they were stepping into or

   5:43:16any right they had. That was just their personal, you know, thought. What we're doing is protecting those views for them. So we actually are putting something in place that has not existed.

   Kathryn Starkey

   5:43:26So uh I know it it's not at the level of detail today that you required, but one of one of the other things I heard at the Planning Commission, and I heard it again here today, and uh and one of the residents told me about this, and I won't recall if he's the one who ended up coming to my office, is when you drive in, it is a stunning entrance. It is lushly landscaped and it's a really nice entrance. Um and he said that the residents paid for that landscaping, not

   5:43:57necessarily Mr. Dempsey. And so um as we go forward, if this goes forward, I would hope that the lushness and the um beautiful feel of the entrance that those people have invested in is there. So I tried to see on your plans what the landscape would look like on both sides. I'm just hoping that you'll you know, with the history of that investment that that is going to be very lush

   5:44:27still.

   Jordan Kornberg

   5:44:29Yes, and I'd also say that if you look at it today, um a lot of the plants there have lost their luster and there's a lot of improvements that can ultimately be made. So you know and that's obviously important to us, right? As many people had mentioned, that that is the arrival to Saddlebrook, that is that first impression, um and and it and it is important. So, you know, I actually think we can enhance that arrival experience versus you know what it looks like today.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:44:53Commissioner Weightman. Thank you.

   Seth Weightman

   5:44:55Thank you. Uh What a great day. It's a Tuesday, right? So I want to thank Ms. Wilhite and the Mass team. Um do

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:45:07you have any more

   Seth Weightman

   5:45:07questions for Mass

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:45:08at

   Seth Weightman

   5:45:08this point? No, sir. No, sir, no more questions.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:45:10Okay. All right. Um I'm just gonna make one comment to it. Uh and I don't mean

   5:45:19I feel that when I go into let's say the Saddambrook Resort, you go into li the lobby, there's a giant picture that shows the whole golf course that's there. It shows the layout of everything that's there. I think when these people signed up years ago, they had an expectation to what they were gonna get. I think they were when they were buying their properties through Mr. Dempsey, this was what was gonna happen. I don't know if they really have the authority to be able to come in and change everything that's out there. So when he says there's no protection to

   5:45:49the golf course and having the golf course there, I'm gonna question that. Am I right?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:46:03There have been lawsuits between residents and golf course owners about preserving what they thought they bought into. Not very many, if any of them, that I'm aware of have been successful without some underlying document that gave them the those rights. Um I mean look at the links in your in your district. There's not much you can do about

   5:46:34a private uh private provider, uh a property owner who owns a golf course who doesn't want to maintain it or doesn't want to use it as a golf course any longer.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:46:45Well, there is a situation where we have a determination from the growth management director, Terry Pitos, to the Lynx golf course person that they're by planting a tree farm is in direct violation with the development agreement, which isolates one hundred and twenty seven acres.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:47:02That's an entirely different point than whether they whether they could just abandon the golf course, which is a question you asked. It

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:47:10says in the development agreement it has to be a golf course. That's what it says. It's got a list of matrixes that you can switch out. In the whole matrix switch, it goes from residential, multi-family, on the matrix you can switch, and it goes over to you can do assisted living facility, commercial, and retail. It doesn't not allow for the golf course to be changed on the Matrix. I think there's a protection there. And I don't know what the documents are here. I haven't seen them all the way through, which is why I like to see more detail from a this project coming

   5:47:40forward, knowing the MPD's coming behind it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:47:48You asked the question about whether or not

   5:47:53And what my answer to you is that most folks have not been successful on those challenges.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:47:59Okay. Mr. Wigan, before I let you go, I just want to make one comment.

   5:48:04Uh

   5:48:05one side.

   5:48:24Pardon me, we only got 35,000 papers, yeah.

   5:48:29Ah well. Yeah it is. Alright. So after watching What was going on with this, having having several meetings. Uh I went to David Goldstein, who's the attorney for the planning director, assistant county attorney, and I asked him pretty much, you know, give me the list of reasons for denying a rezoning of land use. Here's what he said about land use. He says comprehensive plan y land use amendments are legislative decisions and can be denied for just

   5:48:59about any reason, as long as it's not arbitrary and capricious. Depending on the facts of a particular case, we would typically cite reasons such as lack of compatibility, inadequate supporting infrastructure public services, or lack of internal consistency with other comp plan goals and objectives and policies. So I just want to read that to you before you bring in for your landing here. Okay.

   Seth Weightman

   5:49:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a very fair statement.

   5:49:28Where's the pine kids? Oh did they? Oh well this is the best homework I guess you can have. You know, uh I get the sense that we're all at an impasse. Some board members. the the mast and in their project in the residence. And I want to thank everybody for doing their part to make progress happen, keep a good sense of

   5:49:58life while moving forward and increasing value to anybody. And I think this board and everybody here recognizes how special and unique Saddlebrook is. So we'll pull a rookie card being a new commissioner with new information coming out today of the board meeting that I hadn't seen previously. And I've got a list of questions, they're working staff questions. I think we all might have those that I want answered.

   5:50:29And I think I've made that clear, especially on the traffic issue, among others. Like spend some more time meeting with the applicant, getting some assurances and some understanding on what we're looking like going forward, what the final plan. Is it? I think there's good progress b being made. I think everybody kind of saw

   5:51:02So that I can review and ask questions thoroughly and in detail with staff and the applicant before making a a decision. Mr.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:51:13Chairman Mariano.

   5:51:19We have a motion of second. So the commissioner has since the commissioner said he was pulling the rookie card, I will ask you Do you want it continued to a date certain? March seventh would be your next aid city meeting. I can pull the next the April meeting. If you're gonna continue it And you don't want re advertising, which is what we normally would do in this situation. It needs to be consider continued to a date certain. Let's do a a date certain here and date city. You went

   5:51:49the April meeting? Uh yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:51:50Commissioner Weightman?

   5:51:55Thank you. Thank you. And

   Gary Bradford

   5:51:56you notice he said dates that you didn't notice that. Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:52:02Give yourself plenty of time. We're just hearing there now. I mean in the in the documents we've got they were negotiating with Donald Palmer and some others. They now pick Jones. They got details to to to look at there. They've can look at many other things with what's coming up before they can do the traffic information. You might ask for more traffic information, which you can go do so I mean y as a resident commissioner. And I will I will say that. Mm. Something that I've talked about with them is I don't mind whatever type of incentives we could possibly do. And that

   5:52:32would mean like working with Swift Mund to go clean out the golf course areas that are silted up, using some of the money they put in every year for their stormwater utility fund to use that money to help clear that out to make it more affordable to go do so. Could we even help with the drains? I don't mind if we look at Being this that this will be a very more beneficial if they put a more concentrate concentrated development in the center to give them some relief for the impact fee they may pay or even to give some economic incentives

   5:53:03that we can. And whatever tourism monies we can help if we're gonna do something like we were gonna do years ago at the tennis stadium. Whatever creatively you can do to work with those guys, uh, I wanna help them. I want them to succeed. I want Saddlebrook to go back to that high level and I think it can. And I think everybody on the board has heard that, seen that, and everybody agrees to it. But it's just a matter of how do you get there. And clearly. Just like that one apartment complex at the very end, if it turns over and they flip it to somebody else, what could happen out there? So

   5:53:33as you pick your time, please give yourself plenty of time to go through this. I'd rather get this thing right.

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:53:39April fourth is the So what about eight weeks? Sufficient? April fourth is the Dade City meeting after the March meeting and then it's May ninth. And let's do let's do April fourth. So you motion would be to continue to to April fourth at one thirty or as soon thereafter as they may be heard.

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:53:59All right. Do we have a second? Could with a second there?

   Unidentified speakerVoice A

   5:54:01Yeah, he's

   Jack MarianoChair

   5:54:03we both. All right, two seconds. Okay. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? I guess I'll

   Unidentified speakerVoice O

   5:54:11vote aye.

4. 4Apr 4, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP61Public hearingApproved

   An Ordinance Amending The Pasco County Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan; Plan Amendment (Regular) - CPAL 22(06) Saddlebrook Resort PD - Providing For A Large-Scale Transmittal Of The Proposed Large- Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment To … Land Use Map (Map 2-15 2- 15 And Sheet 22) From RES-6 (Residential-6 Du/Ga) DU/GA) To PD (Planned Development) On on Approximately 420.37 Acres Of 549.39 acres of Real Property Located To The located to the South Of S.R. 54 And and East Of of Service Road And A Road; and a Text Amendment Creating creating Subarea Policy FLU7.1.66 FLU 7.1.66 – Saddlebrook Resort; And A and a Map Amendment To to The Future Land Use Map 2-9 Adding adding Subarea Map 2- 9(66) 2-9(66) Saddlebrook Resort; And and Providing For Additional for additional Text Amendments As Necessary For Internal Consistency; Providing For A Repealer, Severability, And An Effective Date as necessary for internal consistency

   Approved minutes

   Approved Staff’s recommendation including the protections the applicant has made regarding the twenty seven holes with Chairman Mariano voting nay.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 1:06:34
   ▶ 1:06:343h 7m

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:06:34So pleasure the board to move to the saddlebrook mean that we had a meeting a month ago, or two months ago. Alright, so we're gonna bring up s the saddlebrook item.

   1:06:43P sixty one.

   Madam Clerk

   1:06:46Publication Tampa Bay Times, August third, twenty twenty-two, March first, twenty twenty-three, and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:06:54Okay, as as we get started, um we're gonna hear some people representing other people. I'll let the county attorney address them as they come forward, but um the applicant has been asked and given fifteen minutes the Saddlebrook group has a hired an attorney and formed a group they're opposing it. They've been given fifteen minutes. There's another gentleman that wants to get fifteen minutes. Mr. Goldstein said it, but I want the board

   1:07:24to have that discussion about it and then we'll take from there. Everyone, you're going to get three minutes to speak. if you don't if you would don't repeat the same thing over and over again uh so we can keep it moving we get a bunch of other hearings coming behind this one here but we're trying to move it up uh being that we already had a a first public hearing on it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:07:43Thanks, Mr. Chairman. The the Board had conducted a full hearing on this matter before, so there's no need for any member of the public to repeat to the Board anything they stated at the last hearing. Really the focus should be on what had changed.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:07:59Well let me stop you. Okay. We had a public hearing. And on the public hearing there were a lot of questions that were unanswered. So if someone wants to speak about something that was addressed they spoke at before and hasn't been addressed, they should be not curtailed or even instructed on how to how to go about to speak. They're gonna get three minutes to speak is what they want to say and we shouldn't direct that. We just don't want to have the same repeat of a conversation that someone right before you'd said other than just kind of agreeing with it.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:08:25I I don't think we're seeing inconsistent things. I'm just saying if the applicant made changes and and those changes did not address the concerns of the neighbor then think they can say the changes didn't address my concern. I'm only stating that The focus should be on what has changed since the last hearing because you had a full hearing last time.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:08:44Yeah, we've already had full hearing. Okay. Amy?

   Amy Heiler

   1:08:49Good afternoon. Amy Tall with Long Range Planning, Planning and Development. I'm sorry.

   Keith Swope

   1:08:57Okay. Yes. Okay, sorry about that.

   Amy Heiler

   1:08:59That's okay. Uh the item before you is PDD 23-0009, a large-scale comprehensive plan amendment in the name of CTAL 2206, Saddlebrook Resort. Subject property is located in the South Market area in the urban service area. Just to give you a recap of some of the history before the Saddleburgh Resort MPUD, which is currently in place, was approved June 24th, 1986 and contains approximately 530

   1:09:31acres, which is before the adoption of the Comprehensive Plan in 1980-89, which was effective in 1991. In 1989, the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan was adopted and established. The County's future land use map, Map 2-15, which envisioned this area for residential density not to exceed six dwelling units per gross acre. And the MPUD was modified one time in 1992 to increase the approved commercial acreage by 2.25 acres

   1:10:02for a sports. Science Center that was proposed at the time and never built. The proposed amendment to PD is intended to clean up some of this conflict between the non-residential uses that were approved in that MPUD from 1986 and add an additional parcel to this Hattlebrook Resort development.

   1:10:22So, as stated, the applicant is currently proposing an amendment to PD for the portion of the existing Saddlebrook MPUD to allow for a mixed-use multifamily development located along State Road 54 and renovate the existing Gulf Cub Recreation Hotel area. The location is south of State Road 54, east of the service road area. And the resolution to the proposed amendment is a large-scale comprehensive plan. Plan map amendment to Map 2-15 and Sheet 22, as well as a text amendment creating sub-area

   1:10:53policy blue 7.166, Saddlebrook Resort, and a map amendment to MAP 2-9. There is also a zoning, rezoning petition for the MPUD filed concurrently with this. These are the comprehensive plan policies that are consistent with the proposed amendment. Here's a visual representation of the aerial of the proposed PD flu. The existing future oh that's that's not right. I have to remember that.

   1:11:22Currently is Res 6. The proposed future land use represented as PD flu. And so the Saddleburg Resort Sub-area Plan with a plan development, they are required to provide a conceptual plan. You have seen this on multiple occasions already. So the conceptual plan that runs alongside the comprehensive plan amendment for the PD future land use classification basically provides that vision for this area. Doesn't go into too a lot of detail as the MPD

   1:11:53would. See that in the next couple slides, but in the top right or top left-hand corner, that's going to be considered area one. The purple corner on the right-hand side is area two. The area that is the golf course is going to be area four, and then area three is going to be represented as the yellow and the red area. In this proposed plan, I'll just identify some of the changes that occurred

   1:12:23from the last public hearing. They just cleaned up some of the text. As you see, the note is more consolidated before these notes were located under each area. So they consolidated the notes and then they added a condition or note number five, which states that density and residential uses may be. transferred from development area one to develop area two as part of the MPD rezoning. And so this is the proposed master plan, which goes into a little bit more detail

   1:12:53on what is conceptually planned. And so, as you see, area one is going to be consistent of a little zoomed-in area. So, area one is permitting up to 75,000 square feet of commercial retail office, 600 or 465 dwelling units for Multifamily and 35 dwelling units for townhomes. This area is intended to act as an entryway to Saddlebrook to create a

   1:13:23mixed-use development vertically integrated with retail and multifamily in portions of the site or portions of this area, as well as a mudrum component. to ensure there's internal capture for this area. Area 2 is proposed for 25,000 square feet of commercial retail office as well as 120 dwelling units for townhomes.

   1:13:49And this is a zoomed-in version of area three and four. Area three and four, area four being the golf course and the relocation of the driving range, as well as area three, which identifies preservation of the tennis courts, as well as the renovations for the clubhouse and the resort area. And with that we auth recommend authorizing transmittal of the proposed comprehensive plan amendment to DEO and other reviewing agencies. Lots of papers. And

   1:14:19if you have any questions, I think

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:14:20we need to answer that. Any questions for staff?

   1:14:24Okay. And the applicant?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:14:30So Mr. Chairman on the issue of time, the applicants requested and they're granted fifteen minutes. Do we have somebody keeping track of her time? Yep,

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:14:37right

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:14:37there. Okay. Just want to make sure.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:14:39Can we not start until my presentation comes up, please? Yes. We start.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:14:47Uh are they gonna restart the clock? Who's doing the cloth?

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:15:09It's the second.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:15:10Even if the clock has not restarted, we can keep track of how much time we take.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:15:12I know. I got it. Okay. Sounds like Mr. Cabal's got it under control there.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:16:28So Mr. Chair, well waiting, I'm gonna address the other two requests for fifteen minutes. Sure. So I spoke to the chair. There's two other organizations that have requested fifteen minutes to speak. There's Mr Sullivan who is speaking on behalf of the Saddlebrook Condominium Association. Is that correct, Mr. Sullivan?

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:16:47Yeah, south of a resort comedy.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:16:50And then Ms. Graham has requested fifteen minutes speaking on behalf of the Save Saddleburgh Coalition. What I advise the chair is that I don't think you can treat those two groups differently. So if we're gonna be giving fifteen minutes to one of the groups, we need to give fifteen minutes to both groups. So that's that would be my position on the issue.

   Barbara Wilhite

   1:17:12Barbara Will Hight sixty three twenty seven Grand Boulevard, New Port Richey for the applicant.

   1:17:19I wanted to start off with uh why are we requesting to amend the comp plan? I had gone through this before, but I think it's important to put perspective. Um the comp plan is not needed to allow for the hundred and fifty five proposed townhomes or and or the four hundred and sixty five proposed apartments. Currently the comprehensive plan allows a maximum of one thousand seven hundred and seventy nine residential units On the property, like Um those could be single family townhomes and or multifamily under the Res Six land use designation. The Comp Plan Amendment, the reason

   1:17:49why I put the Comp Plan Amendment forward for Plan Development. was to allow for the resort and the commercial retail office uses. Currently those residential land uses conflict with those uses. Because um That MPUD and those uses preceded the comp plan. So I put forward this amendment to clean up that up. The Comp Plan amendment not only does a cleanup, but as it's progressed, it restricts my client in many different manners. And we'll go through that. The

   1:18:20Comp Plan amendment significantly removes the residential units units residential units currently designated for the golf course areas, not only removing them from the Comp plan, but I'll show you later that we're we're going to we have a private D restriction um that we have we're entering into with at least the Saddleburgh um Resort Condo Association because they've taken formal action on it, I'll explain what that private deed restriction does to the benefit of the Saddleburgh community. Are there existing remaining unused entitlements in the MPUD? Yes.

   1:18:50The Walking Village has 100 resort units. The Lakeside Village has 68 resort units. The resort units are the condo hotels and condominiums. The Fairway Village has four 64 residential units and there's um commercial which is 100,000 square feet of commercial. Our new uh residential units that are proposed are six twenty minus the uh remaining six uh two thirty-two, which is a difference of three eighty-eight.

   1:19:19So as Mr. Goldstein said what's new, trying not to go through things that we've already talked about. What have we been doing since 2-7, the board hearing before? We've had 14 meetings with three different groups. We had a town hall meeting last week with our resort members regarding our golf course renovations. was attended by Rhys Jones, the designer. And approximately 150 members attended. So all the questions regarding golf were presented. Um all the information regarding golf were presented to

   1:19:49these resort members last Thursday. We again noticed this hearing, one thousand sixty-eight notices went out again for this hearing. The Saddle Rocondo Association Board of Directors, who are represented here today, I hear, represent six hundred and fifty-seven unit owners. They've taken formal action to approve that private deed restriction. Of course they're here, they can speak for themselves. A lot of work went into that, many, many, many, many hours. They hired an attorney with the was specialized in that type of law. as

   1:20:20did my client because I don't do deed restrictions. We made revisions to the PD sub area plan, which we'll go through, and we made revisions to the MPD concept plan. I know I will be criticized for the fact that the MPD concept plan is a concept plan, but we are here at land use, and the concept plan is something that will become, will have a binding version of our MPD concept plan when we come forward with our MPD. The reason why I know it's going to be binding is because Mr. Goldstein

   1:20:51made me remove the words non binding before it could be presented here. So it is the intent that we will have to have a binding concept plan that's going to accompany our MPUD with the details, which you'll probably hear about today. One of those being that that MPUD concept plan as part of the MPUD will show the location, the new driving range, and the golf school building. It's also, you can see those located on the concept plan that I've handed out in a bigger size. I can stand here and say, I did not give you anything that hasn't already been made available

   1:21:21to everybody and that staff has had including a new package. All I did was just give you a bigger size of it.

   1:21:28The private deed restriction, pretty significant. I've never seen somebody that owns a private property owner who owns golf course property willing forever to restrict their property. Now it's of course it's 99 years plus renewals and that's because the attorneys, not our attorney, but other attorneys wanted to make sure that they were definitely felt that this was enforceable, so they made us do the that language. But what it does is it it only not only says when my clients go to renovate this course what the ground rules are and how people's views will

   1:21:58be protected. It also says in the in the future what you can't do by saying what you only can do. So there's always an issue of change of use and as you read Mr. Really's um letter to you all, he said that many of those the folks that wanted to buy saddlebrook, and he can speak for himself too if he's speaking, um that wanted to buy Saddlebrook wanted to put homes on the golf courses. By my client's commitment not required to do and doing a private deed restriction, that won't be able to happen.

   1:22:31The binding sub-area plan, I get criticized a lot a lot for this one as well. The fact that I call it a a P D sub-area plan instead of a P D concept plan. That's because a P D concept plan would not be binding, and we voluntarily agreed to make our P D plan binding. So I called it a P D subarea plan. I could I could rename that a P D concept binding sub-area plan, but I'm just trying not to cause confusion and and I'm trying to be very transparent. So we meet the requirements

   1:23:02and exceed them in your in your comp plan relative to the requirement for a P D concept plan because not only do I have one but I made it binding. Sets worth renewed permitted uses can only be located, sets worth the maximum densities and intensities for area one and two, limits development in areas three and four, and we added a new note. Because we were asked quite a bit between area one and area two, could we transfer density? Uh and so we added the note that that can occur, density and uses can go from one to two as part of the MPD zoning. Area

   1:23:33one, my client has a presentation regarding area one. Just a a few highlights, you know we're gonna do mudderum, it's gonna be mixed use pedestrian friendly. You heard staff describe the entitlements. Any of our multifamily apartments have to be located behind non-residential on fifty-four consistent with the policy of the board.

   1:23:53Again, my client will tell you more about Area One. Area two, staff has described that as well. I think the one thing I wanted to point out was that the community requested us not to have vehicular or pedestrian or bicycle connection to Saddlewood Resort. So we've included that in our MPUD variation request because the code does require that connectivity. Our only access will be to and from State Road 54.

   1:24:21Area three A and three B, that's within the walking village. where we're going to do renovations to existing facilities. Our new development in that area is limited to a new clubhouse for the golf uh courses as well as restaurant and retail uses. This is the change that was made to 3A since the last hearing. Quite a bit of discussion with the the coalition folks wanting to make it clear that we were talking about the area of it was 20 quarts. So

   1:24:51that that area would be maintained? for th for tennis and r and the like kind of uses, pickleball and so forth. The request was we ultimately agreed. I think we agreed. To twenty two.

   1:25:063B, it looks like it had a change there when I did the red line, but I don't think there's any substantive change to three B.

   1:25:14For restricted area four, these reflect the changes that were made in between. There probably is some question that you'll hear regarding the removal of the 27 holes. What I was asked to do was to make the private deed restriction consistent with this language here that's going on your comp plan sub-area of the plan. And so I made the language consistent with the date restriction that was agreed to and that's why you see those changes. Um no bad intent, just

   1:25:45that that's what I was asked to do. When I found out that that was a concern I had been s sworn at that I would not change the documents coming before you today. So I didn't want to be sworn at again, but if that's of concern, we only changed it because we were asked to make the documents consistent.

   1:26:05Some w some things that get a little bit more than a little bit. not stated enough, which I think are pretty significant things in our proposal. Um one is that there's gonna be a new secondary gated entrance to Saddlebrook for residents only. With there's only one way in and one way out today. We will be providing a significant uh difference and having a secondary gated entrance to Saddlebrook for the residents only that will get them to uh Wiregrass Boulevard where they can go north to fifty four, to the shopping areas, they can go south to all the all

   1:26:35the things that Wiregrass has to offer, as well as to Chancey and State Route 56. Another significant change is that there's going to be a new primary entrance for all the Saddlebrook Resort service vehicles. I remember when I came to this county in nineteen ninety six, the first thing I worked on was Saddlebrook. And the residents complained on Saddle Saddlebrook Ray complained about all the buses that came through when the resort was vibrant, all the tour buses and different things that would come through Saddlebrook Ray Way. in front of their homes. That's still been an issue since nineteen ninety six

   1:27:06when I first the first joined the county. Well, through this project, the amendments we're making, that won't be an issue because there will be a new entrance that all the service vehicles and the vehicles that are large vehicles that are going to that resort can now go through and not have to go down Saddlebrook Bay in front of those beautiful homes. Another one I know Commissioner Commissioner Starkey's gonna really like is that we're adding an eight foot multi-use path. That the residents and resort guests can use. And those are all the areas you can get to. Right now, Saddleboke

   1:27:36Ray does not have any sidewalks. And so all the traffic and pedestrians and golf carts go on Saddleburg Way. This path gets you off of that to Area One, to everything in Wiregrass, and to State Route 54. With that, I'm going to let my client client tell you talk to you and have him start coming up to talk to you about area one, transportation improvements. Like I've mentioned, we're taking the Vision Road to Wiregress Boulevard, and these are the we are adding a turn lane at Saddleburg uh entrance

   1:28:07and our these are extra turn lanes we're doing as well. And those are the visuals of that. We do have language regarding linkages, linkaging, linking between area one and area two and the driving range and the resort renovations. We're still working on this. This is MPUD language. It's s gonna be criticized as well because everything I do to do more is criticized. But these are minimum commitments. We're working on the language. We've told the coalition we continue to work on it with them. But it's pretty significant to say that

   1:28:37we're not going to close or demolish that golf course, the existing range, until the new one is located. Millions of dollars of investment will be put in to um to the new driving range and school facility before the other one can be demolished, which means we can't start developing area one. So there'll be significant investment made. I'll come back if there's more questions about that, but let me have um Aaron show you Area One a little bit more. Thank you.

   Aaron Landry

   1:29:05Thanks, Barbara. Aaron Landry, Managing Director at Mass Capital, with offices at 2601, South Bay Shore Drive in Coconut Grove, Florida. And I have been sworn.

   1:29:19So I want to briefly just talk through the area one in particular, which is um which is the existing driving range, and we've targeted to create a mixed-use town center concept. Um the images on the left, uh, which I'll speak to some of their qualities, reflect some of the what we say positive approaches to mixed-use development. Um, whereas the images on the right, which are much more simplistic and basic, uh represent a design direction that we have no Intentions to doing for Area One. And so when we came up with this idea to do a mixed-use town

   1:29:49center concept, we really focused on a few things, which is we know that it has to be high quality in terms of the architecture. I think that can be achieved certainly with a mixture of materials, articulation, having a great architect, all the sort of thought that goes into creating a beautiful building. But there's also other elements. That are important, which is you have to have these well-landscaped areas that really encourage community and social gatherings. In our case, which you'll see, and you I'm sure you have seen our site plan, we try to create this main street feel

   1:30:20which has kind of an east-west and a north-south access. And in our case, we're trying to make sure that we're orienting these buildings and creating an environment where you have access to regional. retail and and restaurants as well. The examples on the right, I think are again, I think they sort of speak for themselves, but they're very basic, certainly don't represent high quality in our in our minds, particularly the fact that they're just three-story walk-up buildings. They really lack connectivity to any other uses. They're entirely car dependent. And they really don't create

   1:30:51that sense of you know place or a real destination that we're trying to achieve with our town center concept. There's a few elements uh I think in each one of these images that are represented in our site plan um in in our proposed plans for area one. Uh in particular, I think you know all of our buildings that we're proposing for residential um there would have uh access through elevator. Um they have certainly will have a variety of architectural elements um in trying to avoid sort of the plainness of a straight

   1:31:21of a of a simplified excuse me simplified um architectural approach. And then we're creating these outdoor communal spaces and plazas in our in our site plan, which I'll show shortly. These are just some inspirational images that I think kind of again sort of highlight when architecture uh is meshed with sort of well well thought out landscape architecture as well as just flat out good old planning in terms of creating a sense of place and you can have these environments um that encourage social activity. So for area one in

   1:31:51our site plan, I'm going to focus just on really the two key components that have changed since the last time we were in front of you. But I but before I do that, I do want to point out in terms of you know some of those qualities that I spoke about that you can see in the site plan. I think you know there's really three or four. I think in particular, the residential is tucked behind the commercial components that are facing State Road 54. As I mentioned, with sort of an east-west street grid access, we're really trying to create that sense of place that's walkable and with the central

   1:32:22element in the center that would be a focal point. In terms of the two key changes, uh the first is the uh in the prior version that went before you in February, there was a residential building um that was Excuse me. That was approximately in this location adjacent to the uh Saddlebrook Way entrance. That has since been removed and pushed further west towards Division Road. So we um certainly heard the concerns around trying to maintain that sense of arrival in the Saddlebrook and adjusted the plan to accommodate

   1:32:52that by pulling away from the residential. The second and last um major change was related to To the off-site improvement of this additional connection to Souterbrook Way as part of our proposed development of Area One. And as Barbara mentioned, one of the key sort of components of this Vision Road connection is one, the ability to yes, dedicate direct access into the resort for existing resort deliveries, if you will, to remove

   1:33:23the That from being at the main entrance on Saddlebrook Way. And then, secondly, having the additional connection that has never existed for residents that live inside of Saddlebrook to have an additional way out. And it this by having this off-site improvement, the additional connection across Rioras Ranch, which is to the west of us, it certainly allows people to get to points west and avoid staying. Row 54 altogether. And as I mentioned, it's one way in, one way out. We didn't design or build

   1:33:53it, but it's that's the way it's been for 30 years, and we think that's a significant improvement in terms of having additional access into the resort. And then lastly, as uh the last point in terms of the connection uh into the resort uh with the multi-use path, uh that it there is a sidewalk that runs adjacent here. It would be controlled access. In the case of any vehicular for the resort deliveries, as well as for residents that would come in. So it's not a it's not intended to be a new access point for the general public. And even

   1:34:23the access for the walking path or multi-use path would be controlled into the benefit of residents inside the gates of Saddlebrook, but not intended to serve any new residents that would live in. area one in terms of their access into the resort.

   1:34:40Lastly, there are two sort of orange sort of V's, if you will, one out of State Road 54 at the entryway, and then their second that's a little bit further in on Saddlebrook Way. And so we've created what our conceptual landscape renderings to try to give an indication of what the of what the arrival would be. This is the most westernmost entrance off State Road 54. I think the point that to highlight here is you know the frontage along State Road 54 that exists today is very much

   1:35:10important to us. We recognize the community has that concern as well. Our intention is not to demolish what is there today, it's it's to enhance that and find ways that we can make it, you know, refresh it uh and make it a much better entrance than it is. And then this last uh rendering here is from the second orange uh arrow that was on the site plan, which gives you a sense of once you're, you know, this is an actual perspective as if someone were standing looking down Saddle Road Way, you're getting glimpses of the architecture to

   1:35:40the left and to the right. Um but I think the general intent here is to maintain, again, that sense of a heavily landscaped arrival. and try to minimize the impact along Saddlebok Way as you enter into the uh resort and into the Saddlebrook community. With that, that concludes my presentation.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:36:06Twenty one gives.

   1:36:09Mr. Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   1:36:13If the applicant's complete I believe Mr. Sullivan wanted to speak after the

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:36:17Yes.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:36:20And as I mentioned earlier, you should be entitled to 15 minutes. Yeah. All okay with that?

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:36:27I have been sworn. I am W. Michael Sullivan, President of the Saddlebrook Resort Condominium Association, and it is exclusively in that capacity today that I am before you. I have some printed copies of the PowerPoint presentation that

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:36:46I'll share.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:36:47All in favor say aye. Please come to the clerk.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   1:36:50Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:37:02Um, let me show you how to do this then. There we go. The Saddlebrook Resort Conduminium Association is the oldest organization within the resort itself. We we

   1:37:16Represent approximately 600 units, dwelling units, residential units, condominium units that are distributed between the walking village, which has a relationship with the resort in that the preponderant majority of those units are in a rental pool where you share revenues from the resort. Virtually all members in the walking village belong to the resort as well as golf, tennis and others then are included in your use by

   1:37:46rights.

   1:37:49We we have beyond our interests in our investments, both in the the capital investment into the property, we have interests in the revenues, in the health of the resort. We also have, by our very nature, in some of the survey I'll share with you, some significant concerns in the open space, the recreational space, the wildlife, and the natural resources that really are embedded in the Saddlebrick Resort. For those of you who do

   1:38:19not know the resort as well as we do, what I took the time from this aerial photo and merely circle the walking village dwelling units and the Saddlebrook or the Lakeside Village units to show you that the the way our dwellings are embedded into the resort. We are surrounded by the Gulf, we are intimately influenced by what occurs in the resort facilities, and I can tell

   1:38:49you today it is packed. And so having we have this long intimate relationship with the resort. Starting on March 3rd of this year, we distributed a survey. It was a simple seven-question survey designed to cause our members to make decisions about the future. 285 owners responded, which is about 85,

   1:39:20they represent about 85% of our owner members. So ordinarily in a random survey or in a mailed survey, 20% is considered good. I represent to you that 85% is phenomenal. The first question was a simple demographic, which You live, and you can see that both walking village owners and residents in Lakeside responded well. We have some members who own both in Lakeside

   1:39:51or in Fairway Village, or others and own a walking village. So there's a little bit of noise there where you own multiple residences. The first question after that was, what's most inter what most interests you, what most concerns you? And the clearly the the let's call I'd call it peach is reflects the people and responded highly that the management of the golf course is important, the restoration

   1:40:21of all facilities, the improvement from the conditions that they've been in recent years. The yellow bar is about um Improve the restaurants, improve improve the curb appeal. And then the the third highest one is don't make it more expensive.

   1:40:40So they showed their frugality. Then we began to ask more detailed questions like Would you exp would you be willing to pay for a substantial increase in membership costs or use fees? That's the top green bar. They said no. If you had to retain if you could retain ninety nine percent of the open space. and accept the loss of the practice facility, how would you feel? They didn't like it much. But if

   1:41:10you said you could reduce the golf course to 27 holes and move the practice facility within the resort, they embraced that clearly and that's the yellow line there before you. We then asked some because there were concerns about the redesign and the rationale for the real redesign, and people were expressing considerable difference of opinion, so we formed a couple of simple questions. One of which is: do you accept that technology of today,

   1:41:41of golf technology, has changed? Forty years ago when the resort was established, a tour player would hit a ball 240, 250 yards max. If you watch last week's tournament, Speath and others, Rory McElroy were out there at 350, 360. So the currentness of a design done in the 80s isn't acceptable to today's high-level player. It needs to be designed. And

   1:42:11as you can see, 85% of our members said we accept that rationale for them to redo. Then a lot of people in the chair have noted that uh while visiting that there's a lot of there were a lot of wet spots, there were a lot of malfunctioning irrigation systems. I can tell you, having done probably 20 projects on golf courses with irrigation design, they have a lifespan of 25, sometimes 30 years. The technology available.

   1:42:42Today that allows individual point irrigation from a phone app. that can control not only soil moisture but can reduce disease occurrence, reduce the need for pesticides or all and our members embrace the idea that changing these things can give us a better product and better recreation. We then asked the question of if there was an opportunity to get a conservation easement on the Gulf

   1:43:12land, how would you feel about it? Would you support this? Overwhelming. 90% said absolutely, yes. Then we threw perhaps for some the most difficult question which which was if you had to trade support for Area One development. For that conservation easement. And this is based on the recognition that mass capital has investors, stockholders, and others, and they need to show a value. And

   1:43:43so we were we I'm a businessman, I even though an academic, you have to show value received for a value given. And so we looked at and we lost five percent of our members who said they don't want to trade. But we still have 85%, almost 86% of our members that embrace that concept of trading value for value.

   1:44:11How do I go backwards?

   1:44:14А сейчас пловает. Well

   1:44:19Barbara stole all our thunder. Oh thank you. Um The thing that we were able to do, and I remember it even more intensely than Barbara suggested, an extraordinary amount of time in meetings, negotiations, conversations with them. And I'm here having as president of the board and say that we were We had competent legal counsel against their competent legal counsel, people

   1:44:49looking at, and I probably in my career have done somewhere around 50,000 acres of conservation easement. This was an exhausting process and it's a good agreement. To reunite development right with the Gulf land today, it would take take a number of associations to agree. And so far I don't think we've agreed on anything. But in this case, this agreement is enforceable and enduring. If

   1:45:19golf should cease to exist to be a phenomenon that I enjoy in others, it would continue as open space. So that appeases our concerns for wildlife habitat, for natural resources, and I don't think we could have gotten a better deal. We've continued, Barbara and Erin referenced these, we've continued to have conversations. They've improved based on our suggestions and input from others,

   1:45:50their map that they've submitted to you with regard to the siting of the new practice facility. And and we've expanded that with additional screening, fencing and other opportunities, specified heights and widths of screening so that our members and those that come to the resort have viewsheds that can still be valued, can still be enjoyed.

   1:46:21The c the codicil that they have provided also starts for uh gives us some of what we wanted and that's who blinks first. And so they've said, they've agreed. To build completely the new practice facility before they begin any disruption of the old one. They've agreed that they would update their owned units within the resort before asking resort other owners to update and re. And so there are timelines being

   1:46:51agreed to there, and I think that was why. Last Wednesday on March 30th, my board, which is a five-member board but only four voted, unanimously agreed to exercise what we think were our fiduciary rights and our governance rights, and unanimously endorsed the idea that this conservation easement should be signed and accepted, and that In exchange

   1:47:22for that, we support the agreement or the request that's before you. So I stand here as president of the association asking as president for my board and for my community that you uh support and approve this request. Thank you. I have three minutes and fifty-four seconds if any of you have questions.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:47:48I wanna ask you a question. Yes, sir. You did the survey back on March third. Recently I heard there was some proposals done as far as what they're gonna do with the configuration of the golf course. Have you seen that?

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:47:59Yes, I participated. I I have done work in all fairness in the past with some of Reese Jones. We've hired, they have hired Troon Golf. I have probably twenty former students in that organization. What they're proposing is In my professional opinion, not as president of the board, my professional opinion as an agronomist in s golf and sports turf management, state of the art, the practice facility will be amongst the finest. In

   1:48:30Florida, if not the nation. The routing plan is still coming together, but I think it will represent a phenomenal resource for a resort, and you will have a wonderful opportunity to play eighteen, twenty-seven, or thirty-six holes a day, or if you're foolish enough to do as I did Friday, play forty-five. What moves out of there?

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:48:55Forty five, you're an animal.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:48:57Well the last nine Mr. Chairman were a was a scramble so it doesn't really come.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:49:02Um so one of the things he talked about with the driving range, the location. And they said it was a long drive to go there. But when you saw the overall layout for the other holes, distance from two to three green was ninety seconds, seven to three green is fifty seconds, third green to forty, fourth T is forty five seconds, eighth green to nine is eighty seconds. What'd you think about all the driving it was gonna take to get from hole to hole? I think you're

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:49:28talking apples and oranges in sense of passage. As I drive out to the practice facility, I'm being passed by cars, trucks, and other things. As I move from one hole to another on the golf course, I'm looking at wetlands, rookeries, turf, and so the risks to me in my cart of somebody not paying attention. Mm-hmm. uh entirely different. So I don't I'm not troubled at all. My home course we

   1:49:58have as you go from nine to ten, it's about a two-minute drive. That's the configuration of the land.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:07But as far as the drive from from T to T, think about when you're gonna run a tournament out there. And you're gonna have O hundred and forty four players gonna play eighteen holes of golf. And you've gotta go to the new setup. Do you think it might be confusing with people or even just regular guests to go from one spot to the other?

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:50:24Signage is required, of course, if you're running a tournament, particularly if it's shotgun, you deploy people to 18 different holes, you tell them where they go next, and they route through. I I don't see any confusion anymore than a standard 18-hole track where you go from A to B to C.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:46Okay. Um now I gotta straighten one thing out. Arnold Power was a great golfer.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:50:52Absolutely.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:50:54Do you remember n th hearing about him in nineteen sixty playing Cherry Hills?

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:50:59I was uh a young lad then. I don't think we had a television yet.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:51:04Okay. I always I always remember the story about Arnold Palmer. He was at Cherry Hills, they had just played Play 36 holes the last day at that point in time. And it was in the middle of a break Getting ready to go play the the last. He's seven po seven shots behind. And it gets fired up with some conversation with a one of their writers saying you got no chance. The hole was three hundred and forty six yards long. He gets up and he drives the green. Shoots

   1:51:34sixty five, wins the tournament. They say that swing made him the king of golf. Now, you stated that he could only hit the ball two hundred and forty, two hundred and fifty fifty yards.

   Colin Burns

   1:51:46On average. That may be on average.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:51:51Anyway, so I'm gonna I'm gonna do I'm gonna I'm not gonna get deeper with that but just that you just gotta lost that

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:51:57be happy to host you for a driving competition. I invite you to look at the statistics from last week's tournament. DeChambeau in the last L I V tournament averaged something like 380 yards. Granted, he's an aberration from even the average PGA tour. It's changed.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:52:19So currently Royal McElroy has a three hundred and twenty yard average drive. They have a try. That's what I think.

   1:52:28And depending on conditions, whatever. But again, his average was that. Anyway. I'm done. Anyway, any other questions?

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:52:35I'll I'll just drag on my sons. Um who just came in second, darn it, at concession, his one of his local clubs, uh, for the championship. Um, he drives three twenty five and my other son drives averages three thirty.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:52:51Sure. Yeah. I applaud them. That's called youth and flexibility.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:52:56Well my older son's 40, but he did he did lose the championship to a uh Auburn um uh a young man who's going to Auburn on a full golf scholarship.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:53:05Yeah. Okay. Well my parallel story to that, Commissioner, would be yesterday I hit possibly my most magnificent drive. Um uh ever on Palmer Five. And then my five foot tall wife drove it twenty yards past me.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:25Okay. Thank you very much, Dr. Sullivan.

   Unidentified speakerVoice L

   1:53:27Okay, thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:53:28I like to say I can throw my club further than I can hit my ball.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:53:36Come forward.

   1:53:47Yeah, Jane, name it drops for the record.

   Jane Graham

   1:53:55Good afternoon Commissioner my name is Jane Graham and I represent the Save Saddlebrook Coalition.

   Kathryn Starkey

   1:54:00Um ma'am, I did ask you last time to send us the list of your members. Did we ever receive that?

   Jane Graham

   1:54:06Oh yeah, you know, um Mr. Barbetta can speak more about that during his time if you'd like.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:54:13So to be clear, Ms. Graham has also been offered or allocated fifteen minutes to speak on behalf of the CFR Coalition. Yeah, but just let me.

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:54:22Well I've I've met more than five of the people that she represents, so she's entitled to fifty.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:54:28No, I know

   Jack MarianoChair

   1:54:29she does. I'm just saying,

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:54:30but but to be clear, Ms. Graham, who's be who's using your fifteen minutes? You and who else?

   Jane Graham

   1:54:35Oh, um, so it's myself and Mr Barbetta.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   1:54:39Okay, so just make sure whoever's keeping track of time, that's the two people that get the fifteen minutes. Whoever's tr I don't know who's keeping track of that. Combined or thank you.

   Jane Graham

   1:54:51Thank you. Okay. Um good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Jane Graham. I represent the Saddlebrook Coalition. Eight weeks ago, the commission voted to continue this item so Mast could speak with the community and find solutions and more specificity in their plan. The coalition has appreciated the opportunity to sit down with Mast and we've actually met with them almost weekly, negotiating in good faith, and we've made some progress. We're not there quite yet, and I'll explain a little bit more later. But

   1:55:22first, I want to talk to you about what are you actually voting on today? and its context in the big picture. This is a future land use map change and a sub-area policy on 549 acres on a property internationally recognized as a sports destination. You're deciding the future of how Saddlebrook develops. How many units, what are they used for and where? And do you need another 465 apartments concentrated on land in a well-established

   1:55:52resort already used for recreation for over 35 years? Mask will tell you that these details are left for the MPUD. And that today is not the main event. But I want you to know that your decision today does not just impact MAST, it actually impacts MAST successors and their successor successors. This is the long-term plan that determines how Saddleburg develops or diminishes. This is, as a future land use plan, a legislative

   1:56:23decision, and you will never have more decisions. more discretion than today to determine how saddle brook should grow.

   1:56:32So we did make progress, but I'm going to be honest. We have a continuing outstanding item with mast, which is area one. It's the density and the type of product. And um, you know, we had a number of conversations with them and we did find ourselves at an impasse. And Mast hasn't budged on reducing the density, no change in product, no change in the number of units. They did add an additional note that's saying that density could transfer from area one to two,

   1:57:02but there's no specificity in the reduction.

   1:57:07So why uh and so we did discuss we discussed some different solutions as well, such as luxury townhomes and a hotel, a midtown type, more green space. Mast wasn't interested in in these. They they had a reason why it wouldn't work. Um, so why is the coalition so concerned about area one? Well first If you look at the history of the Seidelberg Resort, even dating from 1979, the central feature is the core area where the

   1:57:38resort is and and the focus of it. It's supposed to be the focus of all site activity. nineteen eighty six again it it said, you know, the core area. That's the focus. Now you've heard a lot about this motto realm, this mixed use trip reduction measures to concentrate development and it sounds really good except there already is a mixed use area and it's in the core and what area one does is actually create a new one. And so this is not something that Saddlebrook

   1:58:08has really contemplated before in its history and it and it's splitting the type of use. It should be concentrated in the core.

   1:58:18These are more documents. Another issue is the density is out of scale with the surrounding land uses. This is the future land use map, and it shows that this is, you know, technically on the map, and we'll talk about this in a second, residential six, but it's surrounded by residential one, residential three. There's a little planned development, which are townhomes, and some other commercial. But if you look at it, they're asking for 500 residential units on 35 acres, which is

   1:58:48over 14 units per acre. And if you're looking at that as a residential type of use that would be residential 24. And it's more than double residential six. And actually more than seven times what the density was allowed in the original approval in 1986, which was 1.79 units per acre. Another point I want to clarify, and this is really important because it goes to what you're even looking at, is that the applicant claims that the purpose

   1:59:19of this future land use map amendment is to clean up the designation so that it's residential six but non-residential uses are limited. That's not actually accurate because if you look at the timing of it, in the Comp Plan administration. Element, it explains that when the comprehensive plan was actually adopted in 1991, it did supersede conflicting zoning actions, except plans that had project or phases with vested

   1:59:49rights, as provided under that section of the Florida statutes, which is for developments that commenced and continued in good faith. So there's an information and as you all know, I mean the MPUD development started in nineteen well originally back in nineteen seventy-nine it started in eighty six and it was developing since then. Um, so it's our our position that actually, you know, this is the nineteen eighty-six approvals. Residential six doesn't even apply. We're we're under this kind of shadow

   2:00:19land where we're still under the MPUD. So the change to the PD land use also conflicts with the land use designations and tents. It's supposed to encourage flexible and creative site design, recreation, but it doesn't do that. It actually does the opposite of that. This is the land use map cover on Pasco GIS. It shows recreational and a variety of environmental areas. That's the close up. On the right. If you compare it side by

   2:00:49side, that's all green space and maintenance versus the proposed, which is just very much paved over, and that whole area on the eastern side is townhomes. That was supposed to be back in 1997, it was noted that that was supposed to be for land. Landscaping and part of the entrance room.

   2:01:18There are numerous inconsistencies with a comprehensive plan as well. I'm not going to go into detail now. I know that you've heard it at the previous meetings. Um the compatibility is really a significant issue, as is the on-site traffic flow. And the other thing about comprehensive plan amendments is that they need to be supported by infrastructure, community, public facility and services. Here, you know, they talk about Vision Road H as fixing a problem,

   2:01:49but it's actually fixing a problem that it's created due to the density. And if they didn't have all the density in Area One, they wouldn't necessarily need to do that. Yeah. Um I I want to be mindful of time so I'm gonna finish up, but something else just to look at, moving away from area one. If you talk about the commitment to expedite resort renovation, we we really do appreciate having conversations with Barbara. I think that, you know, we've built a good relationship. The language that they presented is not where it needs to be yet on

   2:02:19this because it's prior to first final building inspection, the renovation of the condo, tell units, and other parts of the resort can commence. And you know that can take years away to have a first final building inspection. I mean that that's you know not assured path to revitalize the resort. There's no security there as far as linkage. There are a number of various procedural inadequacies. Barbara actually mentioned, you know, we do have a hang up about the fact

   2:02:49that there's a PD sub-area plan and not concept plan. I'm not gonna bore you with these details. It's kind of some of that as legal stuff that we can get into. I don't want to get into with you too much. But what you should know is that we were very disappointed in the sub-area plan that for the notes, you know, we We had said that we wanted to have consistency as far as the restrictive covenant and we did make some good headway. But one of the things that was not our intention was to take out the 27 holes. And so I think that that, you know, that

   2:03:19might have been a miscommunication somewhere along the ways, but you know, that certainly was not the intention. Um, the big picture ultimately, you're being asked to make a future land use map change today that is an it's a dramatic change to the resort, and it's not really look it's it's not to revitalize what's already there or complement the resort as an amenity or even make the golf course better. You'll hear more about that from others too. Um it's a sprawling residential development

   2:03:49at its periphery that seems to At least conflict with Saddlebrook's goals and characters. So what are we doing? I just want to make it very clear: the official position of the Saddlebrook Safe Saddlebrook Coalition, we are not requesting a denial. That is not what we're doing. We've appreciated the opportunity to work with Mast. What we're asking you to do is help us find a solution that reduces density, reduces sprawl, has commitment to the quality of the product and luxury and

   2:04:19most importantly charts a course towards the revitalization of the Saddlebrook Resort. Thank you very much. And now I'd like to pass it to Larry. Oh, and actually I'm sorry. Um I do have some documents that have the history of some of the Saddlebrook um approvals and I'd like to put that into the record.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:04:40Are are we gonna are you giving us something to receive? Yeah. Move to receive and file. Second.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:04:45All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:04:56This is the remaining time.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:05:00Does anybody know how much time he has remaining?

   Mike Carballa

   2:05:06Approximately five and a half minutes remaining.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:05:13Okay, great. Well I'll move it to the quick step then. Um My name is Lawrence Barbetta. I live at [address removed]. And also have a property at [address removed]. And I am one of the founding members of the Safe Saddleburgh Coalition. Sure.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:05:33Sir, could you speak up just a tad more or get the mic a little closer?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:05:37Certainly. I'll do my best. Is th is this okay?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:05:40Okay.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:05:42Great. So I'm gonna try to focus on the new, not the old.

   Joel

   2:05:46What?

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:05:51So first off what I would do is like to thank everyone on the Commission for giving us some time and opportunity to work through these very important and critical decisions for our community. I feel we've made a lot with that effort. Um with the time we've given. been given. So what we've done is we've engaged in a wide range of community meetings, both in person and Zoom. We've been having those approximately every other week with inside the Saddleburgh Resort. Um what we've tried to do is honestly build some of the bridges um that

   2:06:22was caused through the divisiveness of this whole process. And I think it's brought us closer together. We've had opportunities to have open communication and dialogue and become more aligned as a community. Also is understanding the needs of the community. We engage specialists to design and conduct survey research of the whole community. base to get a true sense of importance and priorities regarding the development plans. We have details on that. I do not have time to go through all of that, but we would be happy to email, share all of the

   2:06:52details of of our survey. Okay? Um, we've also worked with um Mr. Sullivan and also his colleagues uh and and co-board members of the Resort Condo HOA board, as well as other members of the community that candidly weren't aligned with the position of the of the coalition to try to again build understanding priorities. And actually we find many more things in interest. than things that divide us. We've also had the opportunity to engage

   2:07:22in frequent and regular communications with the MAST team. Ms. Wilhite, Aaron, Jordan, et cetera. And and we're appreciative. And we have genuinely been working collaboratively. Even when we don't agree on everything, we're handling it with professionalism, courtesy, and trying to listen to each other's perspective. So we've worked to find common ground. Wherever we can. Now in all of those meetings by the way. I've been involved in all of them, but we involve members from

   2:07:53all of our HOA boards that are part of the coalition. Every single meeting is attended by people who would ha own homes in every area of Saddlebrook. So it's not just, you know, a small group. Okay. Our focus areas, as people have discussed, And where we've made the most progress are in the first two areas, as everyone's mentioned. We've we've reached agreement and have much better products now in terms of the the need restriction to protect and preserve golf course views and the

   2:08:23golf course itself, as well as the filing agreement that's associated with it. Our priorities were driven by the feedback from our community and from the research that we conducted. Over 96% of our people. that responded to our survey, which I'll speak to, um, felt that This these top two things were either very important or important on a one to five Likert scale, which is obviously incredibly strong. The next thing, and we won't get into all the weeds on this, there's some differences in notes, slight differences of opinion,

   2:08:53the binding versus non-binding stuff. Our philosophy is simple. The stuff that really matters we want to have in writing and binding. We're not going to split hairs over it. I think we've made good progress on that. But that's all we're intending to do. We don't want, it's too important a decision to hope. Okay, so we want clarity. Um right now we've made progress on all of those points, I think. I would say green light, green light. yellowish to green light. Um here we start to get into the more yellow to red zone, which is that we still

   2:09:23have significant concerns for Area One as it sits today. We hope to work constructively with your assistance, with the applicant, and with the help of the county to bridge that gap. The community has real concerns on the density, traffic, type of product, location, etc. So simply on this one, we're just not there yet. We're not there yet. We need your help. Similarly on the commitments to assure the revitalization of the resort. with appropriate timing and phasing. And this is critical. And this is another area we're not

   2:09:54yet there. Okay. You've seen the wording on Um There's good wording here let me just cut to this one.

   2:10:04The commitment to keep the driving range operational is obviously good and in everyone's interest. Okay? We're supportive of that. Um, the current commitments on timing and phasing aren't yet acceptable. They're not good enough. The fact that it could technically that doesn't compel the starting of true resort renovations until the near completion of everything in area one and two, which is kind of the opposite. And maybe we're looking at it too simplistically, but why? Why not commit to starting resort renovation? Including the appropriate facilities on Bennies as soon as reasonable. Like

   2:10:34now. It you could generate resort business, it's better for the condo owners, it's better for the residents, it's better for mass resort revenues, better for the county. Why would we wait? Why would we wait until we have to connect vision roads? Okay.

   2:10:52Okay. So my time is up.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:10:55Done finish up.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:10:57Okay. You let give me a few minutes? Thank you. Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:11:02As long as this is the coalition that we're done with the coalition after this.

   Mike Carballa

   2:11:05Ms. Will Hyde went three minutes and twenty seconds over. So if you'd like to keep that number, we can keep it fair there.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   2:11:12Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. So we'll keep this one moving. Um in area one the biggest concerns are around not not so much the scope of the commercial. But we would like to find better solutions. Currently there's a giant difference in the density with area one and area two. I'm sure there's good reasons. I'm not a land use person, but I'm telling you as a person in the community, this matters to us. In area two, there's about 20 acres, there's 25,000 square feet of commercial. In area one, 75,000 square feet, three times as much. And it's

   2:11:42about, you know, one and well, you can do the math. twenty to thirty five or thirty two buildable. The bigger issues is the residential density, 120 townhomes versus 500 apartments and townhomes. That's a density of 15.625, roughly, for the 32 acres, compared to a density of six. Okay, this one we haven't had the time, we haven't gotten far enough. We've also tried to brainstorm different uses of products and different types of products. Um, I was pleased to see some of the things that Mr. Landry shared today. And again, I'm not being snarky here.

   2:12:13We just want to understand more about what the types of products are and what the issues are. We're really concerned about parking sprawl, you know, garden apartment style uses instead of Things that are sensitive to the community and that are really befitting a four to five star resort and a community that we bought in with reasonable expectations. So we need your help to work on this. Okay. This is going to be hard to go through in any short period of time. What I would tell you is the following is we engaged people

   2:12:43who have expertise in creating surveys to try to get input. We communicated and sent those out to the Fairway HOA, the Saddlebrook Property Owners Association, SPOA as we call it, and to the coalition list. It was not passed on to the condo board. We're not saying anything negative. We're pleased they're doing research too. That's wonderful. We're you know, more data's good. We're we love data. Okay? So We have put it out. I would tell you that anything I say about our survey It

   2:13:13has, it does not have sufficient sample size and response to in any way say what the HOA condo HOA members want. We're not going to pretend to do that. Although 59, there's 59 unit owners, excuse me, in that area that did respond to the survey. We had people respond to the survey that own a total of 204 homes, condos, and condotels in total, and 1500. Homes within SPOA. So we had over 50% of the property owners. Actually, it's 55%. Um

   2:13:44Okay. So that is a very good response too. I won't show you no what this is is what Michael showed you too, Sullivan. The green is the um condo POA as we call it here, and the others are the residential property owners associations. Okay. The biggest thing, I'll go through this and we could talk about the questions. The biggest thing is, again, we talked about the preserving golf. There was over 90% of the people feel there needs to be a significant investment in the resort, and 76.7% of

   2:14:14the people felt that it was either very important or important that there'd be resort improvements done before we did the state road 54 development. Yeah. I just go back. So where from here? Where are we now? We thank you for giving us the extra time to work with Mast. It's made a positive difference. We thank Mast and the representatives for the time they've put forth. We also want to thank the community. for all of their efforts. We want to thank the members of the Resort HOA board and

   2:14:45even people who are neighbors where we didn't see eye to eye on everything. We're trying to come together, but we need your help. We need better solutions. To assure there's a commitment to save the resort. After all, this is about renovating and revitalizing the Saddlebrook Resort. That needs to be priority one, in my opinion. And I think with a strong resort, We have a strong community, we have strong business, which is good for you, and we should have a win-win-win for the property owners, for Mass Capital, and for Pasco. And we respectfully ask you

   2:15:16to assist the residents by addressing these key unresolved issues. Thank you very much.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:15:21Okay. Does the boy want to take a break or just keep going? Go. Uh who's next in public comment?

   Madam Clerk

   2:15:27Uh Abraham Stewart.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:15:29And we're gonna line up three to time if you don't mind. She's gonna call three names out and you'll get three minutes to speak.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:15:34To be to be clear, Mr. Chair, nobody else has requested additional time, so any other additional speakers need to be three

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:15:40minutes each. Right. So if we She's gonna call out three names to have the next two people line up.

   Madam Clerk

   2:15:46Pat Hogan, Tom oh nope, not Tom, Jeff. What? Elliot. Elliot.

   2:15:57Please remember to state your name for the record.

   Abe Stewart

   2:16:01Yes. Uh my name is Abe Stewart. My wife Amanda Stewart would have loved to have been here, but she's working up in Tallahassee procession right now. Uh this uh discuss this discussion concerns area one. Uh Amanda and I have been Pasco County residents for nearly our entire lives, growing up in West Pasco and East Pasco County. We both attended Pasco County schools from kindergarten through high school. We got married in Pasco County and we are now raising a family here. Both of our children are now Pasco County students. We both own small businesses in the county. We are proud to live here, so

   2:16:31proud in fact that we purchased two pieces of adjacent property in Brookside to build our dream home. We brought the property at [address removed] into the summer of 2020. It is the only residential property that backs up to the Saddlebrook Area 1 development. in the Brookside neighborhood. And just a month or so ago we had our plans and permitted approved for construction. This past week uh we broke ground. Uh you can imagine how excited we are. Um It

   2:17:02recently came to our attention that part of Mass Plan is to build townhomes directly behind our property, which is near the northeast entrance of Saddlebrook. As you can see from aerial survey, that entrance is currently heavily wooded and is a huge part of the reason that we chose this property in Area One. Uh our land comes with its own set of complications for construction that we've been working on for the last two years. With County, Swift Mud, and DEP all having jurisdiction, it's caused some delays and some fraystation, some

   2:17:32creativity. We keep going back to the beauty of the property and the fact that w we have no rear neighbors currently. But uh from the plots you could see that Saddlebrook at one point in time did have two plots directly behind our house. Now there's a proposed 35 townhomes that will be built directly behind our house. Uh you can imagine our surprise when we saw the plans to build these homes. Uh and the town homes go almost the entire length of our property from north to south. We're all for progress and development, as I mentioned. We're

   2:18:02both business owners and we are excited when other businesses are drawn to Pasco. But under the current plans, our residential property is the only property in the entire neighborhood to be impacted by the proposed plan. We are aware of that these townhomes are designated as uh we are unaware if these townhomes are to be designated as rentals or private homes. We're worried about access into our property, being that the setbacks for the townhomes is only 15 feet and it leaves all of our backyards adjoining to the townhome backyards.

   2:18:33I'd like to mention that uh Mass Capital has been quick to communicate and generous with their time. They offered to work with us on a landscaping buffer between the townhouses and our property and we appreciate that offer. Uh it's just a big disappointment to have spent all this time and effort and money uh on our property to be told that We will have new neighbors 15 feet away. Uh there's also a noise and security concern with a possible commercial plaza with hundreds of people directly behind our house. I'm just here to implore you to reconsider the townhouses

   2:19:03plan directly behind our property. Our fight is not against the townhouses townhouses in particular. It's just building them behind our property and perhaps they could be moved to a commercial area instead. And thank you. Thank you.

   Pat Hoban

   2:19:32My name is Pat Hoban. I live at [address removed] in Wesley Chapel inside Saddlebrook.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:19:39And

   Pat Hoban

   2:19:39you have been sworn? Oh, I'm sorry. I I

   2:19:41have

   2:19:41been sworn in. Thank you. I'm on the board of directors of Fairway Association and also a member of the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition. I'm here today to talk to you about the domino effect of departments being proposed in Area One and the impact. That has on golfing in Saddlebrook. Mass is asking for support for the property development in Area 1. In return, they're offering to relocate the driving range. That's where the domino effect starts. The location they've selected for the new driving range destroys the two golf courses there. Their solution,

   2:20:12three nine whole courses. That's their solution. So far, we

   2:20:16have

   2:20:16not been able to reach a compromise or an alternative in Area One that would take up less land and perhaps preserve some of the property out front to maybe entertain a smaller driving range. They've hired Reese Jones to design the new driving range and and then excuse and the three nine-hole courses. This past week, Rhys Jones. Made a presentation to the resort members, not the full settlement community, so there's probably people here that have not seen those plants. Reese

   2:20:46Jones did the best they could with what they had to work with, but anybody who's a golfer, and when you redesign a course that's already there, we're left with what we were presented, which is large distances between a lot of the holes. Also, one other note that they had was is that right now it takes four minutes to get to the existing driving range. Um it will take ninety seconds to get to the new driving range and added two and a half minutes. That time is more than chewed up by the holes between the nine between some of the holes in in one of the

   2:21:16nines, as Commissioner Mariano mentioned earlier. There's also safety concerns. Fairway drive the main road and fairway village has crossed six times. versus once with the existing layout. This is not only unsafe, it's a lot of car traffic on our roads. Add that to the walkers, runners, cyclist, cars, resident golf courses, and dog walkers. It's certainly not a safe plant.

   2:21:43One of the proposals for the other nine holes is to use the Saddlebrook course. That update would make you pause because they're using one of the existing nines already, and if you think maybe if they just re did a little compromise in Area One, we might be able to update all the holes, save two save two of the eighteenth, say the two of eighteen hole courses, and the golf experience would be much better. Sadly, that hasn't been able to be done, and so we're only left with solutions that have outlined. So when the dominoes

   2:22:13all fall, here's what we're left with: three nines, extended construction time, three to four years, reduced tea time, safety issues on a road, on our roads, not the golf experience you would expect at a world-class resort, nor a fitting legacy for golf at Saddleburgh. Thanks.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:22:29Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   2:22:33The next three will be Alison Rudder, Nancy Foster, and Colin Burns.

   Jeff Lelliott

   2:22:39I have been sworn. My name is Jeff Lelliott, spelled L-E-L-L-I-O-T-T. And I live at [address removed]. I live uh I also own a resort condo hotel. I've owned property in Saddlebrook since 1995, and I've been a member of the resort continuously. For nearly 30 years. I've been a full-time resident of Saddlebrook since 2013. My

   2:23:10son attended the Saddlebrook Tennis Academy for three years. So I've been at Saddlebrook for a very long time. I strongly support the Mass Plan. I know there's wrinkles that still need to be worked out. The community at large. Has wanted the dealing of the golf course. I think in all of this, all of this, anything that threatens that. Should be ignored. Because the community at

   2:23:40large, you've seen these surveys ninety percent or more. We'll never come to a any solution uh as a community on Area One. I mean I I don't consider Area One any part of Sabbath Rock any longer. I know other people don't want any development. That's the community. So that's all I'll say is non-transmittal here means an end to really what I consider salvages.

   2:24:10Thank you.

   Alison Rutter

   2:24:18Hello, my name is Alison Rutter, R U T T E R. I was sworn in. I live at [address removed], which happens to be part of Fairway Village. I've lived there with my husband since 2005. We're not only residents, but we are members of Saddlebrook Resort, which means we pay to use that golf course and the tennis courts and all the other amenities, which have been in decline for for quite a few years. So we are personally thrilled that Mast has come in and purchased Sava Brook

   2:24:49and will hopefully re return it to its glory. And we were invited to come to the members only presentation of that new golf course and we were stunned with the quality of their plans and their investment in those 27 holes. So we really do hope that you move forward with this so that um not to make a joke, but that some of the poor people who were attending will be able to still be alive to see it and play on those new horses. So thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:25:22Uh uh Commissioner, excuse me. How many people do we have signed up? Twenty-five. So um I'm gonna stop for a point of order and ask a question. Excuse me for one second. Sure. So we had a discussion about our board policy this morning. And our and we talked about this at the last meeting and Especially since a couple of the commissioners have to leave at five o'clock. We um our board policy states that I don't know where it is in here, that um if we're giving extra

   2:25:52time to a a group that that's the time for that group. So, um but I'm seeing I've seen now two members of the group that was given the time to speak for the group coming up. So I would ask the board here, I know we lost one commissioner for a second. Um the intent of what we did was to, I mean, we had we had the words from this organization. Are we gonna let

   2:26:2220 20 more come up? And I'll be gone for the vote. And I Seth, I know you mentioned you have to be careful. So I think we need to be very careful here because I hate I hate for Mass to have to come back again but We gave extra time excuse me. We gave extra time to this group already. If we're gonna give e time to the group Extra time for the group, plus let every member of the group speak, then I'm gonna go over here and say every member of

   2:26:53that group can speak as well. Because we only we limited that group to 15 minutes. So I think that we need to not have any more from either the HOA that member that spoke up for fifteen minutes to be fair to both sides, both groups that gave extra time to, and the save Saddlebrook group. Because that's the in that's why we gave them fifteen minutes. Right?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:27:24You had you

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:27:24had two

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:27:25opposing

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:27:26versus. The problem you have with that is that we have no way of knowing whether the folks that are getting up now were adequately represented by those prior speakers. For all we know, they may disagree with the speaker. They may be a a member of the condo association but not agree with what that speaker said. So We have no way of knowing whether those these individuals that are coming up now were adequately represented by the prior speakers.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:27:51Then why then we should never give a group extra time? Because what what is the per what what have we solved? What problem have we solved?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:28:01The purpose of the

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:28:03right-of-way. So the bo we talked about public comment, we talked about groups, we wanted to get fair, uh and I think with all Saddlebrook had gone through from the last meeting, a lot of time was given, but was all granted and known and and went through it. Uh we talked later on about doing public comment again today. And and I'm gonna say that These people here are being affected dramatically. We've got other hearings coming up right behind it as well. Every person that's here is entitled to three minutes. You can allow a group

   2:28:33to speak But it doesn't mean he's gonna speak for that person. Even if it's eighty five percent, there's still that fifteen percent that would want a voice. And I think they're entitled to head that voice. If it doesn't meet with your calendar, I'm sorry. These people here are entitled to hear Everything going on in the titles, everything else.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:28:53Stop please. Commissioner Oakley. We don't know like you say whether they Or behind the person that spoke for a group? 'Cause that could only be five people, whatever. So the fact of it is They're part of our citizens and our they deserve the right to speak. And I'll sit here until we get in. But some members go, but if if more than two members leave here Before we're able to vote then We will not have a vote

   2:29:23today whatsoever. So The fact of it is is they have the the opportunity to speak and they're allowed that opportunity to speak and that's what we should let them do.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:29:34Might might we suggest

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:29:36I'm not I didn't call on you. County Attorney would you respond to that as far as can you vote if there's three people here?

   2:29:47That's true. So three could. Okay. Commissioner Starkey.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:29:50Yeah. So um So can we try some of the Um ways that we talked about this morning. Um, and that is to because I want to make sure everyone has the ability to. have their opinion represented as well. Um But um is and that is We can say if you're in support of the opinion of I can't remember her name. The

   2:30:20woman from the coalition.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   2:30:22Jean Graham.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:30:23You can say I stand in support of the coalition. Um and if you're in if you want to speak in favor of or or voice a feeling in favor of the other gentlemen or in support of the effect of effects of mass capital, then you can say uh I'm in support of that and Instead of hearing. We at twenty five people signed up at three minutes each.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:30:53That's an hour and what? I'm going to call a point of order at this moment. So we're going

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:30:59to

   2:30:59be two hours into this discussion before we get to anything else.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:31:02So I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to call w w it's not right for us to change what public public comment is

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:31:06in this

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:31:07forum or not.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:31:08I'm just saying that the people can exercise that opportunity if

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:31:11they'll I'll make a request to have them just keep it as short as they can, but I don't want to keep anybody curtailing to yes or nays. I want the stuff to do. So we're going to continue with public comment folks if you can stick to your points, make your points, we're gonna carry on, but everybody's gonna can get a chance to hurt. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   2:31:27I tried last time, Jack. I know. Okay. Nancy Foster, [address removed]. I've been sworn in West L Chattle. I'm a teacher, so I took my day off, but I gave the students a party, okay, so but I'm here. All right. I lived at Saddlebrook 23 years, but I've been in Pasco since 1983, living in different areas. I'm president of SPOA. Uh Marbor joined the coalition in January on the 24th. Saddlebrook to me is

   2:31:57like an oasis to all our residents and those who live in Pasco. I brought my map in again for you so that you could see. Hold on, let me get this on. So you can see that the reason I'm here, one of the reasons is that this is where I live and then this is where the new gate will be and you see how close I am to all the development here. So I wanted you to get a chance to look at that. And let me move forward. And then again, I showed you my cousin before and

   2:32:27how close I am to where they're going to be developing. And then I moved here and I wanted to show you that when you have buildings up, that's my view. And that is everyone's view in Saddlebrook when they come in and when they go out. So it's not my personal view. That's the last thing they see as they leave. And then I want to show you how close the gatehouse will be to me. So as a result, I want you to think about the 465 apartments and I believe the 35 townhouses and retail. That's less of an oasis

   2:32:58for us. I want you to think about the continual abundance of traffic at all hours. Less OASIS for us. Our five associations share expenses to upkeep the main roads which are Saddlebrook Way and Foxhound Drive. More expenses to upkeep, maybe. Mass plan for the gatehouse to move it to where it is, is closer to my house, and to also Villa de Este which is across the street from me, which is even closer. So that means more noise coming

   2:33:28our way.

   2:33:31Why is this Pasco County Gym, Saddlebrook, our county's oasis and a developed neighborhood since 1974 being torn apart at its seams? Mast has not budged an inch on the number of type of units in their plan. Less Oasis for us. Why do the residents and the county have to give up their oasis, the peacefulness and quality of our neighborhood? I had here also we want to preserve our Saddle Book

   2:34:02for generations to come. And I also wanted to quote that the policy FLU 1101 compatibility requires consideration of existing development patterns, transitions between land uses, and consideration of environmental and community character, and also we have policy FLU 1103. Yeah. I also want to just review here, we have a serene entrance, manageable traffic flow, can only hear the ping of the golf ball of the club, which I love to hear,

   2:34:32listening to the sounds of nature, limiting lit area at night, very quietly evening, and now this is what it'll be, busy entrance, abundance of traffic flow, can only hear traffic noise, delivery trucks noise. from residents and visitors, can hear the sound of nature outside, well lit area, and no more quiet evenings do Excuse me, due to the restaurants open until midnight to one AM. Thank you very much.

   Gary Bradford

   2:34:59Have a

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   2:34:59good day.

   Gary Bradford

   2:35:01Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   2:35:05So after Colin Burns, we'll have Angela Weiss, Gary Lynn, and Keith Swoke. Yeah.

   Colin Burns

   2:35:17I have been sworn. My name is Colin Burns. I live at [address removed] in Wesley Chapel, which is part of Sowbrook. Thank you, Commissioner, Chairman Mariano, Counselors for allowing me to speak. I could come up here and I could quote the staff report from Bureau Chief of Pasco County Sheriff stating there's 64 67 counties in staffing, but I'll make a motion to myself to uh move on on for the sake of speed. Many people have said, including some of the commissioners seated here,

   2:35:47that Saddlebrook is a unique situation. Uh given that Saddlebrook is an established community with a wonderful history and not an open law. We've heard many times that the detail will come in later stages. It does not need to be included in the plan now and so on and so forth. But let's go back to one sentence that I just spoke to you, that Saddlebrook is a unique situation. The plan for Saddlebrook as it stands now does not

   2:36:17make sense. We're just not there yet. Again, Saddlebrook is this very, very unique situation. Right now the maintenance structures are safely away from the communic community located in Area One. If they remove the Grand Pavilion, the result is chemicals, fuels, fertilizers, machinery, and other hazardous materials deposited within a large concentration of people. Now picture this

   2:36:47in your mind. Saddlebrook as a hotel. restaurants, bar, convention center, fitness facility, spa, pool, And now a proposed maintenance facility in its core. In my business, we call these target hazards.

   2:37:09The front area now goes under construction. There is one entrance an exit to Saddlebrook. And I understand calm. There's a vision of it. I have a lot of visions. My son's gonna clean his room. The laundry's gonna put itself away. There are visions for a reason.

   2:37:32There's an accident now in Saddlebrook Web, a breakdown of a vehicle. We're gonna do construction. We're using construction vehicles. Call it what you want. There's now no access. I could sit here and tell you stories.

   2:37:49about my experiences with not being able to access a location, resulting in the house burning down, resulting in me to go in to see the family when the person's already suffered a cardiac arrest. Target hazard, the definition: a hazard that poses an extraordinary risk to human life, property preservation, and environmental conservation. Area one creates a domino effect that puts the safety of the community, guests, and

   2:38:19visitors at risk. We do a lot of things to avoid risk. We change our smoke batteries and our Smoke detectors, we get ready for hurricanes, we try not to pet alligators. The question I pose to you is why would we subject this community and its guests and visitors to a greater level of risk with this current plan? We're just not there yet. I think they've done wonderful things. I just think we need to look at it a little bit deeper because of this unique situation. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:38:50Folks as you come up as the red light goes, try to wrap up becomes as quick as you can. Thank you.

   Gary Bradford

   2:38:56Yeah.

   Angela Weiss

   2:39:02Hi, my name is Angela Weiss. I have been sworn in. I live on [address removed], Wesley Chapel. I'm not clear what the vision is for Pasco County on our side. We have so many apartments and townhomes as is I feel like this is detrimental to add the number that's projected. Um I think we have so many and I don't know why we would need just a just a few more. Just a few hundred more in our little corridor fifty four. um having all these

   2:39:33are areas gonna be disturbed Um And I one more question. Would you like this in your neighborhood? You've been living in this little tiny pocket of fifty four. And and these other houses are coming up and there's plenty of places for people to live. I I wish Wesley Chapel like a tampa. I wish we'd stay suburban. That's it.

   Gay Lynn Davison

   2:40:09Hello, my name is Gay Lynn Davison, D A V I S O N. I was sworn in. Um my husband and I Your your

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:40:17address please?

   Gay Lynn Davison

   2:40:17Pardon me?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:40:18Your address please?

   Gay Lynn Davison

   2:40:19Five one I was getting to that. [address removed]. in Wesley Chapel in Saddlebrook. We moved here seven years ago from Pennsylvania. Um I have been coming here for over 20 years. I have family and friends that live in Saddlebrook, so I knew the area very well. Um unfortunately there have been years of neglect and the entire resort is a gra in a grave state of re disrepair. The multi-million dollar investment that Mast has started in the resort is showing great improvements already, from new

   2:40:49roofs to landscaping all refreshed, and freshly painted signs, etc. The most important concern that I've heard from neighbors and from myself is preserving the golf course space. I am in complete support of the restricted covenant agreed to by Mast to protect our golf courses indefinitely. It's a big deal that Mast offered that. Big companies don't necessarily do things like that. to

   2:41:21cut it short uh and save some time. Um I do not I do not see that um area one um as big a problem as other people do. Um and I am in support of Mass Capital's proposal with continued uh discussion and compromises on both both sides. Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   2:41:48After Keith we'll have Andrew Pines, Julie Pines, and Valerie Cunningham. Can I submit this

   Keith Swope

   2:41:56yes?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:41:57We have a motion? We have a motion to receive and file.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:42:01Move to receive and file.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:42:03Second. All in favor say aye.

   Keith Swope

   2:42:05Aye. Aye. Aye. Hi my name is Keith Swope. I live at [address removed]. We bought Saddlebrook in 1982, before there was a resort. And when the resort was designed, we were told that you know we this could be fixed up be great. And we figured that it was told it was going to be. It would always be everything would be like it is. Now it's big changes, not as all like we're looking at. But I've what I'm giving you is the land that was resolved last year. It was part of the Central Park Employment Village, Central Pasco,

   2:42:35I'm sorry, employment village, that was on Highway 52 between Air Cut Off and Bellamy Road. My family had 500 of the 2,700 acres there. 2,700 acres was approved, it was built and designed by Heightened Associates, and it was approved by everybody. ready to go. We had six hundred apartments on our forty-five acres plus commercial. And when it came to the final thing approved, Well before you guys we said,

   2:43:05you know. Forty-five acres. 600 is way too many doors for 45 acres. And now you gotta understand my my People around my neighbors are either 50-acre lot, 50-foot-wide lots, or 40-foot-wide lots, townhouses. in Amazon buildings. I mean Amazon buildings I only think I'm really affected w with my three hundred and uh my six hundred apartments. We were cut in half. 'Cause I said that was just

   2:43:35too many. We gotta have three hundred and six three hundred and thirty six. Well what I'm looking at is For forty-five acres. If I can only put three thirty-six on it, and I've got 52 on the front, I've got a four-lane north-south expression on the side of me, an east-west behind me. I've got my people aren't going by anybody to get past my apartments. They've got roads everywhere. We don't. We have one little road in and out. Maybe we'll have a vision road, but that vision road is

   2:44:05going to take our light. Now we only have one light. Whether you have a light over here or a light over there, it's not going to matter. We only have one road out. And that's going to be that one road for everybody. I'm just saying four five hundred doors is twice what we need. We'd like to negotiate with them, we've tried our best to negotiate with them. So far we've given up driving range, we've given up a fourth of the golf course, and they've given up

   2:44:33Thank you very much.

   Unidentified speakerVoice P

   2:44:45Oh.

   Andrew Pines

   2:44:47Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for the time to speak. Uh my name is Andrew Pines. I live at [address removed] and I have been sworn in. Um I've also been recently appointed to the SPOA Homeowners Association Board. I am one of the condotel unit owners within the resort condo HOA. Um I nor any of the other numerous condo owners that I've spoken with have received any

   2:45:17notice.

   2:45:20the resort condo H O A board meeting where a vote took place. The only communication that we receive via email uh was the mass was f was the fr from the massed Zoom call for them to present the vague concept photos. Um and for um e earlier this year and an email to fill out the survey. I would fully expect that our board notify and invite others to a board meeting where they vote on something of this magnitude that

   2:45:50affects our investments in the resort. I and many other of the uh many other of the other condo owners that I have spoken with are not in agreement with the proposal in its current form. Critical information about the future of the resort is missing. What is what is the timeline of these renovations? What is the scope of work? What is this gonna cost us? What commitments is Mask making to upgrade the resort? It's been over a year and we don't

   2:46:21have answers to this yet. I'm asking the county to please help us get the commitments and answers we need to show our resort will be prioritized and revitalized. Um also after Michael Sullivan presented I quickly jotted down some numbers and my calculations There are 642 units. 285 is what he represented as 85%. My calculation that represents 44.4%.

   2:46:52When you take into consideration the mass owns 100 units, that could potentially be 34% of the overall representation of condo un condo units. So again, we've been left out. of the conversations, we've been left out of the vote, and they're making overriding decisions on our behalf without including us. Please help us with this. Thank you for your time.

   Valerie Cunningham

   2:47:24Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Valerie Cunningham. I reside at [address removed], and I have been sworn in. From the moment my husband and I learned of Mass Capital's revitalation plans, we knew that it would be crucial to be actively involved in shaping and supporting those plans. On February the twenty seventh. two thousand twenty three, we received a call for action from Larry

   2:47:54and Barbara Thunberg, who are also residents of Saddlebrouck. And in that call of action, they implored the residents of Fairway Village to let their voices be heard in this manner. And that's the reason of my presence today. It is with the utmost respect that I say I Don't share the same position as the coalition stands. But I do share their fervor. And ensuring that Saddlebrook Has the brightest future

   2:48:25possible.

   2:48:28So let me be clear. There is an proverb that I try to govern my life by. And it simply states that in all of your getting, get wisdom and get understanding. And so through my extensive research and contemplation I'm confident that Mass Capital possesses the experience, the expertise, the capital and the vision to guide our cherished Saddlebrook

   2:48:58community into a brighter future. They have demonstrated their unwavering commitment to improving Saddlebrook in three vital areas. Number one, their multi-million dollar investment. Number two. their proposed restrictive deed covenant that will protect property owners like never before. And finally, they've demonstrated eagerness to collaborate with the residents of Saddleburgh to achieve our common goal of

   2:49:28a better community. I stand before you with immense gratitude for mister Dempsey's legacy, as it has given us the privilege to call Saddlebrook our home. Now I implore every one of us in this room to work together to ensure that that legacy lives on. Together we can. Together we will Together we must. Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   2:49:55After Miss Julie Pine speak, Larry Barbetta and Joanne Barbada and then Alan Thunberg. I

   Julie Pines

   2:50:04need to be sworn in.

   Madam Clerk

   2:50:06You have?

   2:50:09Raise your right hand for me, please.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:50:11Is there anyone else who hasn't been sworn in? If you'd please rise and raise your right hand, we'll swear anyone else in too. That you're going to speak. Okay.

   Madam Clerk

   2:50:21Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth, so help you God. Thank you. When you speak please state for the record your name and address.

   Julie Pines

   2:50:32Hi, my name is Julie Pines. I live at [address removed] and we own Dakota Hotel also in Saddlebrook Reserve. Um thank you, Commissioners, for your time today. I have a few unanswered questions that I ask you to please consider when making your decisions today. There's much discussion on traffic outside of Saddlebrook, but we need to address the impact to the traffic inside of Saddlebrook. which, as you know, is an already existing established residential community, not a vacant piece of land. By shifting

   2:51:03a significant amount of new traffic down Saddlebrook Way, which where we live, it will affect the roads and safety for pedestrians. There are no sidewalks and this is an already semi-risky as people walk down Saddlebrick Way. Parents walking with small kids and strollers, and people who are walking their dogs, and who are already trying to manage their safety with this existing residential traffic. Our street is a relatively quiet street in an established community for residential traffic. Today golf carts and neighbors drive by, and sometimes the Rogue Semitruck, which you'll

   2:51:33see on this video, um and delivery band likes to come down and use our road as a shortcut access. And our biggest concern is that with the new golf course that they're talking about building and everything else, they can only go down our road. And there's nowhere to turn around. They got a backup and you'll see on this video The Pepsi truck decided that he'd try to come down our road and backed up into our neighbor's yard and tore it all up. Luckily the guy who was driving it was kind enough to stamp down the grass, but then drove away.

   2:52:04So if that is the s slightest concern, our biggest concern is the safety of people walking down the street. With the current plan, maintenance structure relocation would have an impact on safety where people can walk inside the core of the resort area. There'll be non-stop maintenance vehicles and semi-trucks everywhere. This is inconsistent with the comprehensive plan FLU 1410, which states Pasco County shall continue to establish and enforce policies, standards, and regulations which provide safe, convenient on-site

   2:52:34traffic flow, considering site access, traffic circulation, and parking for both motorized and non-motorized movement of vehicles and pedestrians. The comprehensive plan also requires that the plan development provide pedestrian circulation as a component of site design. This plan is silent on this topic. Why is this all happening? Because we're gonna have apartments. A whole bunch of apartments in area one. These improvements are supposed to revitalize our resort, but escalating internal traffic issues and safety problems is making it worse,

   2:53:05not for the better for the people who live here. We thought and hoped that we would give and take with Mass during negotiations for our established residential community and the people who live, work, and pay taxes here, but it appears to be only take and take. It's either win or lose, with Mass's current proposal and unwillingness to budge. Thank you for your time.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   2:53:34Hello. Um I think you mentioned Larry Barbetta, but he already spoke. I'm Joanne Barbetta.

   2:53:42Do you have the video or the uh slideshow?

   2:53:56Okay. Um I am Joanne Barbetta. I live at [address removed]. I have been sworn in. Um Barbetta spelled B-A-R-B-E-T-T-A. I don't have a problem with apartments, but amendments to the comp plan uh require attention to compatibility and protecting the character of the area. Um compatibility is uh of course very important. I doubt that there was much public opposition to mass

   2:54:26development on Bruce B. Downs, although I'm sure many of us miss all those trees. Why didn't anyone complain publicly about that? Probably because it's fairly compatible in that area. Similarly, I didn't hear a big uproar over mass plan for development east of us, although I suppose if they move some of that density you'll hear more. Perhaps the lower density and the different product was more in line with the surrounding neighborhood. You start to see a pattern here. Certain densities and certain housing products

   2:54:56are suitable for some locations, but not others. And the residents who live around these properties probably have some sense of that. Mister Landry um brought out or showed a lot of inspiration pictures. Um and I really don't know what the final product is going to look like. It just feels a little late for inspiration. I feel like Um we've been looking at those p kinds of pictures for quite a while. So really all I can do is just kind of look at some of the neighboring apartment buildings and say

   2:55:26maybe they'll be similar to that. Here are uh the 260 units at MEVA apartments. They're built on vacant land, right near the hustle and bustle of the outlet mall, and a myriad of restaurants. These apartments are not being tasked with trying to create a sense of arrival for a historic golf and tennis resort desperately trying to redistinguish itself. I don't necessarily look at these things and say, oh, they're ugly and they're not up to I mean, I think they're they're lovely. So

   2:55:57I don't know um you know, I think it's a fair comparison. Here are the story apartments. Again, smaller in scale, built on vacant land, in a spot that is carved between two busy roadways. No one would think that this is a suitable product to make a great first impression to a four-star resort or an open and spacious residential area. Perhaps that is why Tom Dempsey imagined only two acres of commercial development out front. Even if he had built that,

   2:56:27much of that entryway would have remained intact. I also have a concern about the potential oversaturation of multifamily housing in our area. I put this map together to show how many units have been recently built or will soon be built. Now this information um is incredibly difficult to gather for a layperson, so I hope you forgive me for any mistakes or omissions, but you get the idea. There are already tremendous housing options.

   2:56:59I'll close with this. I just don't understand. How something like this is compatible with this. I just don't understand. We need your help. Thank you very much.

   Madam Clerk

   2:57:14After Alan Thunberg there'll be uh Greg Rake. And then I have a Russell Galloway and a Betty Galloway.

   Alan Thunberg

   2:57:23My name is Alan Thunberg. That's T-H-U-N-B-E-R-G. I have been sworn in. I live at [address removed] in Saddlebrook, Bussy Chow. Barbara and I have lived in a single family home in Fairway Village since 2002. Our son Eric graduated from Saddlebrick Prep, where he trained in both golf and tennis. He later played Division I tennis at St. Joseph's University. In 2019, Eric

   2:57:54submitted a master's thesis to Georgetown University entitled Repositioning Saddlebrook Resort. His plan differed in detail from the plan before you today. but they are comparable in many ways, including twenty seven holes of golf, a relocated driving range, and development in Area 1. Mast's plan was not a surprise to us. Eric concluded that the resort last made a profit in 2002.

   2:58:25That's 20 years of red ink and a whole bunch of deferred maintenance. Saddlebrook's guests couldn't see the red ink, but they could see the deferred maintenance. And Saddlebrook lost a space of satisfied customers. Based on 2018 revenues and 2019 room rental rates, IRIC estimated that 2018 occupancy was less than 23 percent. Saddlebrook is a residential oasis in an area of

   2:58:55rapid growth. To sustain this oasis, we need a healthy and profitable resort. We might have preferred a resort management company as the new owner. And we were disappointed when Mass tried to use the consent agenda to secure approval for its plans. That was a rocky start, but since then Mast has collaborated with neighborhood representatives. Mast agreed to a deed restriction to preserve the golf courses and

   2:59:25the open spaces. This is a major win for our neighborhoods. Mast has also agreed to linkage between profits from the development of Area One and the active upgrade. Of the resort and has begun to address the density of development in Area One and the resulting increase in traffic. Mass plans to construct a segment of Vision Road H to connect State Road Route 54 with Wiregrass Boulevard and

   2:59:55provide a second entrance to Area 1. These are positive steps. Our community needs a revitalized and profitable Saddlebrook Resort, and we urge you to vote yes to save Saddlebrook. If you vote no, it will not be a vote to save Saddlebrook. Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice Q

   3:00:21Chair? Commissioners and uh Mr. Goldstein and staff, my name is Greg Greeley, R-I-E-H-L-E. I I have been sworn. My address is [address removed], which is in Fairway Village. Um I've lived in Fairway Village for uh 33 years, uh and as many of you know uh I was uh worked in virtually every executive and management upper management position. At Saddlebrook over all those years. I come before you today, though, as a resident of

   3:00:52Fairway Village, and I speak in that capacity alone. But the roles that I played as general manager, executive vice president, general counsel, president of Saddlebrook Sports, I ran Saddlebrook Preparatory School from its initial initiation and for about 11 years and ran both the tennis and golf academy. I know just about Everything can be known about the history and uh the business of Saddam Rock. And so that informs my decision, I hope you'll agree. Um for the first thing I'd like to

   3:01:22do is acknowledge uh my fellow residents who have done a really great job of bringing Mass to understand the the legitimate needs of of us as residents, uh what we need and to bring Mass uh to make real commitments uh that are To the benefit of what we deserve to have here. I also want to acknowledge Mass by the same token for responding to those uh those demands and those requests, and I think they met them uh in a very fine fashion. Most especially, and I don't think we heard it yet today,

   3:01:52was uh that they took away the development on the southeast portion of the property, which was significant, uh, as well as of course the the the uh Restrictions prohibiting development on the golf course. The other thing that really bothered me about the initial plan of bringing what was really bringing the density up to 54 was because I was concerned about ingress and egress. Those of us who lived so long at Saddlebrook know what it was like before we had our stoplight. Sometimes it takes me as long to get out of Saddlebrook as it would take to get from the

   3:02:2254 all the way to Tampa. International Airport and it's been a lot better since then. What concerned me was g getting out of the place primarily. What I now hear today, learn some new things today about uh excess from this uh from 54 uh onto the mood road to go which were most people most people will go left, they'll go west, they'll go south, they won't even go on 54 according to what I'm hearing here today. I realize I don't have as much time as I'd like to have to talk to you about all these things today. I did send you a letter, please uh take a look at that about some

   3:02:52of these issues. But I think What Larry Barbeta said, what's most important is to revitalize the resort. And I the idea that we can just expect MAST to wait and not and and uh start to revitalize the resort before they do the the the project on Area One, I think is is is folly because a business needs to know that they're going to be able to generate the revenue. From my point of view, If they know they're going to generate the revenue, they're going to make the investments in the resort and they're going to do it fast. And that's

   3:03:23what I want to see. I don't want to see any further delay with this because we've already missed a growing season. We're going to miss another growing season. It's going to put the whole project of redoing the golf courses farther back. It's going to slow the revitalization of the resort. So I encourage you to please move this forward as soon as possible. Yeah, any questions I'll be happy to answer them.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:03:42Public comment.

   Unidentified speakerVoice Q

   3:03:43Thank you.

   Madam Clerk

   3:03:50We have a speaker with um no name. It's [address removed]. There's not a name if that individual is here.

   3:04:00And then I still have a Greg Reich.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:04:08Can you ask the other any other speakers to line up and just for the sake of time?

   Madam Clerk

   3:04:13After Greg I have Russell Galloway, Betty Galloway, Berta Uh Canazarez, Sherry Hogan, and I'm not sure if Joe Ramos has spoken.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:04:25So if the next speakers would line up behind the chairman, go ahead, sir.

   Unidentified speakerVoice P

   3:04:29Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Dr. Dan Richardson. I live in Saddlebrook as of the past two years. I'm an old Zipper Hirls Bulldog from the 60s. I remember when it was built. My profession is I'm a planner, an economic planner, and an MAI, a member of the appraisal. Institute. I'm looking at the development plan that Mast has presented,

   3:04:59and I wanted to express some concerns to the Commission. My background includes having to appraise the Boloteri Tennis Academy before it became IMG, and then appraising the IMG Academy before it expanded to at baseball and soccer and football now. Um I've done a number of projects around the state. I do primarily eminent domain as for the roads. Um My

   3:05:30concern here is that most of these developments, like in Innisbrook, for example, uh the competition, the entrances, the frontages, the edges of the property, particularly along the highways, are typically green space or in many cases uh holes of the golf course. the heavier, densiter development are inside and the core development, like where our resort is at Saddlebrook. To put

   3:06:00the um five hundred units up on uh area

   3:06:06One uh creates a lot of concern in terms of presenting a pr the right uh image for a uh golf and tennis resort as other speakers have presented it seems very out of character. Um the other concern uh that I have is with timing and phasing. Uh The resort is a business. I'm troubled that the proposals don't really bring into account renovation

   3:06:36of the development prior to all these other ancillary real estate developments. So I would urge the to Commission if they were to approve this for uh mass that they would put conditions on there that the uh resort needs to be developed and refurbished first or at worst after development of uh area two which doesn't affect our entrance. Thank you very much for your time.

   Unidentified speakerVoice R

   3:07:14Good day. My name's Russell Galloway. My wife Betty Galloway.

   3:07:21We uh Address Address We live at [address removed], which is in Fairway Village. And have been sworn. We have been sworn in. Um we bought our property when there was no building there. It was just a lot. We bought it in 1989. We've seen a lot of changes in Saddlebrook. Uh I have a friend who is a um a real estate agent. who comes as a friend just to take a look at the place. And he takes a look at our area.

   3:07:51We live in a in a cluster home. And he said, I've never seen anything like it in my life. He's been in real estate for about twenty-five years. And he said, Who did this? And he said, I said, Arthur Ruttenberg. Guy's a genius. It's a beautiful property. We've seen changes for thirty-three years. And we'd like to keep it similar to the way it is, we understand that things are gonna happen. I'd say the density is our biggest problem and we're s we break it together. Our time is started

   3:08:21together, so that's basically all I have to say. Thanks for your time. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:08:31Then call my name afterwards.

   Madam Clerk

   3:08:32Berta. Carnazars. I don't know if that how and then Sherry Hogan.

   Berta Ca

   3:08:38My name is Berta Cañeteres. I have two properties. I think everybody has said already what I was gonna say, so my only point is that at the very beginning.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:08:48Sorry.

   Berta Ca

   3:08:48Do you just

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:08:49your name and address the record and you've been sworn?

   Berta Ca

   3:08:51I'm sorry?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:08:51If you would just say your name and your address

   Berta Ca

   3:08:53which would

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:08:53be

   Berta Ca

   3:08:54sworn. Sorry.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:08:55Quick.

   Berta Ca

   3:08:56I thought you heard it. Okay, Hamberta Cañizares. I have two properties and in the resort and everybody has said already most of what I'm gonna say. So uh I'm just saying that it's a pity that to ruin the whole thing with uh really five hundred units because Nobody can even think how much is five hundred units. And that's all I'm gonna say. Thank you very much.

   Unidentified speakerVoice D

   3:09:24Yeah.

   Madam Clerk

   3:09:28Sherry Hogan is the last one I have.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:09:32Should I go back some time? All right, is there any else who wants to address it? Anyone on WebEx? Nope. Okay. Now go back to the applicant? Well staff.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:09:43Staff because I don't know if staff wants to make a statement.

   3:09:47Mr. Pitos and Ms. Harley.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:10:07Thank you, Mr. Chairman Mariano.

   3:10:10Um just to follow up on a few uh comments that have been made, um with regard to the comprehensive plan amendment that's before the Board of County Commissioners for Transmittal to DEO. Um in terms of the compatibility reviews uh that have been talked about, Policy Flu 1.10.1, for example, talks about compatibility It points to other comprehensive plan policies that we traditionally use to review the various comprehensive plan amendments that come

   3:10:40to the board. Um policy flu 1.10.2 talks about compatibility through appropriate design, which is a policy that points uh a policy of the comprehensive plan that points to the land development coding by extension to MPUDs to review the uh specifics. Of 1.10.2. Policy flu 1.10.3 talks about residential compatibility and transitions, which is again another policy that points to the land development code to do this. Um,

   3:11:10sort of compatibility review. Objective flu 1.4 talks about the protection of residential neighborhoods, and again that establishes the land development code and by extension the MPUDs uh to do that. Then of course policy flu 1.10.5 talks about the relationship of land use to zoning classifications, which is a policy that talks about zoning and is not really applicable to the comprehensive plan amendments. Um I bring this up because we've seen some slides in the past

   3:11:40couple of hearings that talk about incompatibility and inconsistency to the comprehensive plan. And these policies are actually pointing to settling uh compatibility issues at the MPUD or the entitlement stage, and then further on uh via the Land Development Code during site plan review activities. So uh I'm not sure that these policies would necessarily be applicable to uh the comprehensive plan consistency.

   3:12:16That

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:12:16whole thing was worse than lawyer speak.

   3:12:21And it's for the right. I'm offended.

   3:12:32Okay.

   Paul Paul Grinshaw

   3:12:34Uh in terms of uh

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:12:38In terms of the um

   3:12:45Discussions that we've had with regard to density along State Route 54 and what it what will be the future of Bruce P. Downs intersection that's at the northwest corner of the Saddlebrook development. Um This is a we we have discussed previously in other cases as well that higher density is typically appropriate near high intensity transportation corridors. And uh apartment

   3:13:15complexes that we've seen in the past typically come in at densities around res twelve. Sometimes they come in a little lower at a eleven dwelling units per gross acre and sometimes they come in a at a little higher than twelve uh dwelling units per gross acre. And so uh density at the stairwell 54 and future intersection with Bruce B downs uh is going to be appropriate because of the high-intensity corridor too high the intersection of two high-intensity

   3:13:46corridors at that location. Um and then I want to point out that it's not simply placing the density at that intersection uh But it's placing it with a particular development pattern that will reduce uh or is aimed at reducing congestion within within the State Route 54 corridor as well as the Bruce Bowns corridor, which is the mixed-use trip reduction measures that had been talked about. Umderum is designed as a development pattern to

   3:14:17control and contain as much traffic within. in the development is possible. And so this area one that's been talked about extensively Uh the density that is proposed there is appropriate for the high intensity corridor that uh is to the east, or excuse me, to the north and to the west of the site. Uh but it's also appropriate because that density will will contain within itself uh the various amenities that

   3:14:47will help to keep traffic off of 54 and off of Bruce B. Docks.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:14:51Terry, let me s let me stop you there for a second because we're not talking about a of like a virgin piece of land. We're talking about an MPUD that was came forward in nineteen eighty six, comprehensive plan that uh acknowledged everything was in place by ninety one. Now, in the documents that were submitted, it talks about the core of the property. You know, Innisbrook was a great resort, had a big core around it. This here was even more compact. You've got the swimming pool, you've got the golf course pro shop, you had a high-end restaurant which has been shut down now. There's still another nice restaurant with

   3:15:21a bar that's right there. You've got all that core activity. the swimming pool, right? That's featured everywhere. That's where the core is. That's what Mutterham was really designed about was keeping all those people right there. I mean think about the term walking village. They can walk to go there. They can walk to stay there. They can do all these activities from tennis all around as well. So When you're gonna talk about keeping traffic inside, those people when they get there, they

   3:15:52stay there. They don't go out on fifty four, they don't go around. So I I I struggle with your telling me that Mutterum is good out on the front parcel on fifty four, when fifty four's so crowded right now, with sixty five percent of the traffic going left, And you've got left turn lane backups now to throw four hundred and sixty five more units right there and getting them to go to the same place. is going to be very difficult. When you go further down, the other piece of property, the other M P U D piece that's m added

   3:16:22in, There's no mudder, it's just a little bit more. Another intersection on a busy road. So I don't I don't know how you can associate the Moderam with this piece. The right regular theory you have is it's perfect. You're right, Mutterham is there to keep traffics in-house. But you've got a core that this whole thing was built around. And you're gonna go take the segment of that people and go put them out front. Meanwhile, reducing amenity twenty-five percent. Talk to me about that.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:16:52Well I th I personally I think the core for the resort is is uh centered within Sandlebrook.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:17:00Okay.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:17:01Um I think the It's my understanding of the development and like I said, the placement of density is appropriate at higher intensity quarters. The area one aspect of this project is oriented towards State Route fifty four. And that's not That's new development that that's taking place at that northwest corner of the of the

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:17:26Oh Let me stop. You're saying it's new development. Here's where I struggle with that. This is an MPUD that's got all this acreage around it. This may be part of the project But it's not a little bit more. Separate from what the core actually is. It's another segment, another part of a development, but not a new development. The development's already been in since 1986.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:17:50Well it's it's a new development in the sense that that that corner is being redeveloped. So there's new things that are m moving in, essentially.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:17:57You can say redevelopment, but it's not

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:17:59Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:18:00Okay.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:18:01And those and uh

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:18:02Commissioner Oakley. Yeah, Terry if tell me if I'm wrong, but to me we're looking at Saddlebrook at what it used to be years ago, back in the late seventies, early eighties. and what it is today. We are trying to revitalize this property to be something like it was before, but in a different arrangement. But Um I've expressed a mask before about how Nice that front view of Saddlebrook and that apartment

   3:18:33snow. uh need to look so that it expresses the great quality you have in Saddlebrook. in the resort. And of the residential there. to help it be just what Mass wants it to be. And then I think once they get started some of this development of the golf course and the or the driving range, some of that be happen. I can see also some of the uh rebiling going on uh during the resort

   3:19:03at the same time some of these other things are being done because if they don't do that they won't bring it together all at all pretty much close to the same time to open uh with all all the good parts of of what mass wants to do. And it's to their advantage, it's their dollar. But when they bring that out, it's gonna improve everyone's value that they have in in that saddlebrook, in the resort and in the homes in there. And that quality of what it looks like out front is very, very important. I expressed that to Mass

   3:19:34r early on. So but I think that's a redevelopment of an M P U D that has gone a long time and then it has changed because of the climate's changed on people traveling from the north down to the south like it doesn't happen like it used to. So there's a big change in that.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:19:51Mr. Chairman Mariano. Mr. Starkey. Uh I just have one question for you, um, Terry, and then I think we still have rebuttal. So my question for the planning director is we heard uh two people I think mention the world sprawl. uh as for the redevelopment of neighborhood or the area one, what what is sprawl and why how are they possibly using it there?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:20:21I think I would answer that question by saying that i i it's not sprawl, firstly because it's in the urban service area of of the county and sprawl would have to be low density development that is encroaching upon uh more rural area, and also sprawl would be the extension of utility into place. That previously did not have utilities in order to serve as a low density or

   3:20:52low intensity development pattern. Here we have State Wheel 54, and eventually Bruce B. Downs will be brought to that northwest corner. And so this is a very urbanized horse, or I would say. more suburbanized um future intersection along the State Worldly Four corridor in uh in in the urban service area. So this would be uh this would not be sprawl in

   3:21:22that sense. Yeah

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:21:22it's kind of the opposite of sprawl.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:21:24Yeah this is more in in if we follow the redevelopment language it'd be more infill.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:21:30So and so I mentioned this to someone the other day that you know we have so many people that want to move here to Pasco County and if if we didn't if we took away these apartments say and put one of those in a forty foot wide home, rental home or whatever. And If we added four or five thousand Rental homes. And we went. horizontal instead of vertical. We I wouldn't want that. So I prefer

   3:22:01If we're having all this um attention that we go up in places. So but but that was my My my question for you, um and you already answered about uh why we put density We we purposely uh put density near public infrastructure investments, and this has many of them there with 75, Bruce Bowns, 54, 56, so this is where the mall, the hospitals, the

   3:22:32the college, this is where density belongs.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:22:35All right, so let's let Terry continue on. If you had a question about what he's saying.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:22:46Uh I for what? I double checked with staff. I think that was the extent of my uh my recap. Um

   Alison Rutter

   3:22:54Did

   Linda Farmer

   3:22:54you have first?

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:22:55Okay. I have one question. Um and maybe a Brad question, but will the revitalization of the resort require them to obtain a new site plan approval of any kind?

   3:23:11Brad signaling yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:23:17So Terry, let me ask your question then if you're done. The Area two. There's been new language put in that says any density not used in area one can go to area two. Area two you got Brookside. I think it's a space of land. uh another space of land and it's uh pretty rural back there. How do you justify that piece of property to go to what could be the same thing as the apartments over there?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:23:46Well firstly I think uh area two is also along stairwell fifty-four. So again you're still on the high intensity quorum. I would say, however, that there's some distinction between area one and two, at least from my perspective, that area one would be you would expect area one to be more intense than area two simply because it's nearest to the intersection or the future intersection. Hope Bruce B downstin fifty four. And so there th there may be an argument that higher

   3:24:17intensity and higher density is more appropriate in area one than in area two. That said, you could make you could have also the expectation that some degree of higher intensity or higher density is appropriate for area two because again, uh the fifty-four corridor and the development patterns that are uh occurring all along.

   3:24:4175 eastward to 301. Uh W they would indicate support for that kind of higher density or higher intensity use.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:24:51Does the traffic bother you at all as far as like how many trips that have been coming out there and how it traffic backs up right now at peak hours?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:25:01I mean the the development patterns would have to uh respond to whatever the timing and phasing would be. Uh And also whatever access management requirements would have to be w whatever access management requirements are identified would have to be met as part of whatever development is getting proposed. So yes, the transportation would be taken into account.

   3:25:26At the same time, this is why we have to go through the different phases so that when we get into uh the MPUD reviews, um we can establish the necessary conditions of approval. And are the appropriate land use equivalency matrices that would regulate what alternative land uses could swap in and out.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:25:46Well again the the original M P D actually had developments like that with what could go in there. And they didn't put apartments in there.

   3:25:55Okay. Anyone anyone have any questions for Terry? Okay. Alright, the applicant?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:26:11Barbara Wilhite for the applicant. First if I could have a motion to receive and file the two PowerPoints.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:26:17Move to receive and file.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:26:18Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:26:23Thank you for all the time you've taken to listen to us and listen to the residents and I thank them for all the time that they've given us um to give us their ideas and suggestions and to work collaboratively and sometimes agree and sometimes not agree, but we actually we banter back and forth, we actually sometimes come up with some good ideas. Um like Jane Graham, you know, we were Larry and I were kind of bantering back and forth and she goes, Well, why don't you just do this? I'm like That's a great solution. So that we've had a

   3:26:53lot of good time spent together and we look forward to the opportunity to continue to do that. I I thought it was interesting to hear that the the P D conflicts with intent when it's all res six today. We're moving it to PD and making all of the golf course areas recreational areas or open space. That is addressing open space and recreation space that the Comp Plan doesn't do today in the REST six. Creative site design, that is what area one is. It is a modern project. And butterum.

   3:27:24Puts our project in the hands of your staff. And ultimately at your direction as the policy makers. I have done I have worked with the Mudarm Ordnance. with with my clients and it puts staff right into it and saying we want to see this quality and we want to see this building go this way and that building go that way. It's a it is a a subjective review we put ourselves under, but with an intent to make it a quality place. So I've watched that in person. So I believe in that process and I believe in

   3:27:54that commitment that we made to make it Mutter.

   3:27:59We've heard about the linkage. We wanted to make sure we link the development of area one and area two, you know, to the resort renovations, to the driving range. We have started working on that language, Mr. Goldstein and myself. He said it wasn't good enough either. That's why on my slide it said an MPUD condition, work in progress. Very transparent coming here and saying, you know, I I put the language up that's would I knew would be criticized, but I wanted to show that the commitment's there to to work on that language. So it wasn't

   3:28:30meant to be the end of it and and Mr. Goldstein will tell you that it wasn't acceptable to him either. So we're going to continue to work on that. Um A speaker spoke about Central Pasco Employment Village, not sure what the relevance there is, but one of my teammates was familiar with that and said that was an a battle between homeown uh owners of property regarding allocation of entitlements. So really apples and oranges there. One thing that I I heard I don't know if anybody else heard it, but The thought that the vision road, having the vision road and

   3:29:00saddlebook ray both intersecting 54, would somehow mean that the light of Saddlebook Way is going away, that is not the case. Our transportation consultant has met with DOT and both of those locations are acceptable from a spacing standpoint for traffic signals. So that I want to make sure we clear that up because that will get people really upset that to think that when the Vision Road is ultimately signalized it would take away Saddlebok Way's signal and they work so hard to get that signal, that's just not the case. I thought

   3:29:30the conversation about the traffic inside and the traffic down Saddlebrook Way and the trucks and the service vehicles, I tried to present that in my presentation. That was actually been very thoughtfully handled. The service vehicles now come through the resort gate, down Saddlebrook Way, Fox Hunt Drive, you know they they can go that way. But my client can speak to it more, but the intentions are to move all of that service traffic over to the Vision Road and that new gate and they can control that because these are their vendors, these are the people that service the resort. Um

   3:30:01Pedestrian circulation, we are definitely not silent on that. I mean if you look at our plans, very specific circulation on those plans, that multi-use path was for the very comment that um that the one speaker raised about pedestrian circulation and how it does how it happens today. So we knew about that and we which why we put it in there. We can we insisted that you know we worked with Mast and made sure that it was there and your staff Mm-hmm.

   3:30:31The note five language that says we can transfer density from one to two was a request that was made of us. We believe in the plan in area one, we believe in the plan in area two, we believe that those are appropriate plans. We put it in there as flexibility in case there's another idea. Um I know when I first mentioned I mentioned going density between one and two, um your Mr. Pito said he didn't like that idea. Um he can speak for himself, but um he didn't like that idea because

   3:31:01that's a right in and right out for area two and we have the Vision Road and using the Vision Road connection to Wire Gross Boulevard and so the density he thought was appropriate where it is and he explained to you just now about how the intersection of the Vision Road and State Road fifty four makes the appropriate place. So I can I'm fine with moving note five. I just think it it gives it gave some flexibility to have further conversation, which is what I committed to um the residents that I would do. So And

   3:31:3127 Holes of Golf, if you want to put that language back in our sub-area plan, we're fine with that. Again, there was no bad intent there. And if you're happy with that change, I'm I'm happy with that change. We hear you loud and clear about the quality of Area One. And I know um on behalf of Mass, Jordan uh Kornberg wants to speak and then Aaron Landry quickly. But they are the representative mast and they wanted to to to say a couple things um to you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:31:56Barbara, before you sit down, could you address the argument that you don't need the plan amendment to do the non residential in the resort.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:32:08Yes, I do not agree with that. I do not agree with uh the opinions raised there. I mean w the comp plans res six. The zoning preceded the comp plan and we have the longstanding interpretation of of conflict zonings. I actually had two conflict zonings that were resolved today through a comp plan change with on your agenda. Um so I do not agree with all of those opinions and Mm-hmm. We

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:32:35Yeah, I'm I mean I'm reading the argument and it says that I think she's relying on the fact that Saturnbrook got a final local development order, but based on Mr. Tiffin's opinion that you would need a new site plan approval to redevelop the g the resort, it seems like you would need a new final local development order which would have to be consistent with Compoint.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:32:54That's correct. That's correct. Plus if we had any site plan, it's long expired and that talks about commencing in good faith. And that's a I mean you know we've we've looked at these provisions together in the state law. So I don't know if we've I mean I'm happy to go through that discussion but I know you're uh

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:33:12I guess uh my conclusion would be that you they do need to redevelop the golf course, I think they're I mean the resort, the non residential uses in the resort, I think they do need some type of plan amendment to do that.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:33:27Thank you. Thank you, David.

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:33:36Hello, Jordan Kornberg. I'm with Mass Mass Capital Managing Director. I'll keep it brief, so appreciate all the time you all are taking. Um, you know, there were two surveys put in front of everybody. Those two surveys made very clear there's two things that are important to the residents, which have also been what's come through our conversations. That's protecting golf course and views and getting to a renovation of the resort. We've worked over the last two months. To address those concerns and solve them, our plan accomplishes that. One of those surveys took it a step further

   3:34:06to say, if we did those two things, are you supportive of what we're doing? And the overwhelming answer, I think it was at 85%, said yes. The other survey did not make any attempt to link things or get to a resolution. It simply asked questions in isolation. So we don't know because they didn't attempt to get the resolution.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:24was brought out at one of the constituents. How many of those votes did you have with the uh survey done by Mr. Sullivan? Did you guys put any votes in there at all?

   3:34:33In the settlement. Uh we did vote. I don't know the number.

   3:34:37You did vote?

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:34:38You have

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:38a hundred units?

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:34:39What's that?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:39You have a hundred units?

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:34:40I don't know the number.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:41Approximately?

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:34:42What's that?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:43Approximately

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:34:44I I d I do not know. I did not fill out the survey. Um and so we have somebody on our team who is a board member and part of the association, so I I I do not know the answer.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:53I think it would be a pretty important piece of information for you to know, but go ahead.

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:34:57Um you know there continues to be discussion of 36 holes and the importance of that. Members at Saddlebrook Resort play 7,000 rounds, less than 7,000 rounds on this golf course. You can't support nine holes with 7,000 rounds. The Vision Road was talked about as a vision and who knows? We're committing to building that. So the idea of us solving traffic, we are making that commitment and we are solving it. It's not a hypothetical that may or may not happen down the line. The maintenance facility is something that keeps

   3:35:27coming up. One, the new vision road goes right through our maintenance facility. So we are forced to move it with or without this plan at some point in time. Two, as you've seen, the driving range location where the maintenance facility is is a lot further from the golf course today than where we plan for it to go. All of that maintenance traffic that people are concerned about not only drives through the community, it drives through the residential portion of the community today. Where we're putting it addresses that concern and puts in an existing building where we have heard

   3:35:57loud and clear concerns about what that facility might look like. Everybody knows what it's going to look like 'cause that's an existing building that's there today. We started working with the coalition and other members of the community. They had very long lists of things to address. They're down to basically one thing. They stand up here as if we've accomplished nothing and we've gotten nowhere. Their very long list has been whittled down. And the two other groups that have worked with us, we've addressed their concerns and they actually showed up in support today.

   3:36:27We've already made significant investment in Saddlebrook. We're continuing to make that investment, and I think it's clear that our plans are focused on revitalizing Saddleburg and saving Saddleburg.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:36:44Mm oh, okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:36:49Barbara will hit again. In the interest of time, my rest of my team is available if you have any questions. We too don't want to just go on and on and keep saying the same thing either, so

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:36:59Barb, I got a question for you. I heard in the SAR presentation about the golf court presentation was done to a segment of the population. Um Any reason you guys haven't shown what you're gonna do with the new layout?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:37:11Well let me have my client answer that. As to why they made it available to resort members first.

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:37:22So we started with unveiling the plan to all the members that are members and use the golf course and their facilities. We had that end of last week. The presentation which Reese Jones was at as well as Bryce Wanson and his team were gonna make available and then disseminate it to the broader community. But our focus was really on initially sharing it with the stakeholders who actually are, you know, have a vested interest in it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:37:43Uh any reason you want to preserve to the Board of County Commissioners gonna be looking at a change from a thirty-six hole golf course to a twenty-seven?

   Jordan Kornberg

   3:37:49We've been very clear.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:37:53Yeah. Yeah, we do not th I from a zoning and land use perspective do not think that taking something that should be the community and working in a town hall with 150 resort members We need to take those discussions of golf course out of this boardroom and into the community where they're s where they belong. That masks can change their golf course today, I believe, my opinion. They own the golf course, they can renovate their golf course. So but My goal is to talk about land use and zoning here and get

   3:38:23the community working on things that that impact the community. And I believe that's what they're doing. 150 people attended that meeting. And there'll be more meetings. Today's today you're not approving anything, by the way. Didn't kind of make that point. You're transmitting, but you're approving nothing. Your vote will be in the future when the MPUD zoning is before you, when this is the comp plan's back before you. So this is still a beginning of a journey and they will continue to work with all the residents and work with them and get their input on the the golf course

   3:38:53renovation as well.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:38:54So when I look at policy FLU one point four point one oh when it says about on site traffic flow and I'm deal talking about golf course cart crossing on roadways that don't have sidewalks that are out there that'd be trying to find their new ways around for ninety seconds, for forty five seconds, for fifty seconds. For eighty seconds and even going from 171 seconds to that uh area. None of that on flight traffic matters?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:39:22No, I did not say that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:39:24You just said it. It's part of the redesign of the golf course where the golf cart's got to go. And they've got to travel on the roads to get to these new places. But this board hasn't even been shown that. You only showed a small segment of the population. And it's right in there in the FLU.

   3:39:40You may not think it's a button as and maybe not a gopher, but It's there.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:39:45Yeah, I bel I believe that we can we can renovate our golf course without any approval here today. So so that's what I believe. I believe we're trying to focus on the land use and the zoning and the matters that were before us in the land use and that's what we're trying to focus on. And there's plenty of opportunity for the public to have input regarding our golf course renovations. Yeah, excuse me. Both the residents as well as the m resort members, so Again, all those conversations belong, I believe they belong with the community, exactly where they're occurring.

   3:40:16So

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:19Any other questions?

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:40:20Um not for Barbara but David Engel has some numbers I think we should list have him prefer.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:26Yeah, just want to.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:40:29Barbara, you said that some of the details will be addressed in the MPUD, like the binding concept plan, the linked language, things like that. When are you anticipating that language will be available for all of these folks to You see.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:46I think I committed to staff 'cause you guys asked me that question yesterday. Um I committed to staff that you'd have my draft by mid next week. Yeah. that linkage language takes some time so that's gonna take some thought because the next step is well what do you when will you complete and w and trying to put more details on talking about a resort renovation. That's a dynamic thing. There's seasonality there, there's different pieces of of trying to do resort renovation. But trying to provide link linkage

   3:41:17language that has enough detail, but also recognizing that you're doing a renovation that's a very fluid thing, we've got to make that balance. And so if anything delays me, it'll be working on that language.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:41:29Well, would have been discussed with staff in terms of when the MPD would go into Planning Commission?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:41:35And they can help me with the dates, but it's July and I do have it written down somewhere in all my notes. Uh well there's excuse me it's June in Planning Commission. And

   Gary Bradford

   3:41:47Oh I

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:41:47love it.

   3:41:48Where's Amy? Amy

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:41:49knows. I know you know. Sorry. We we have a meeting July 5th.

   Amy Heiler

   3:41:54Where are we at? Uh April, May, June.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:41:56I still want to meet when we're in July.

   Amy Heiler

   3:42:01July Planning Commission. June Planning Commission.

   Mike Carballa

   3:42:05Your July meeting is July eleventh.

   Amy Heiler

   3:42:06July eleventh, August.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:42:13But whatever

   3:42:13those new dates June and July. But whatever those new dates are, you're gonna renotice for those dates.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:42:18Full renotic signs.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:42:20Same way you notice this hearing.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:42:22Every hearing will be fully noticeable.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:42:25Thank you.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:42:26And we have to go to Planning Commission as well, so

   3:42:33Good. Thank you.

   David Engel

   3:42:38Good afternoon. David Engel, Economic Growth Director. I have very brief comments. They're not opinion-based, they're fact-based, uh with several findings and a report back because Mass provided me additional information on March 16. Uh number one, there was a question about profitability and economic viability of the resort. Uh they provided us with a 10,000-foot uh profit and income statement and based on their projections I find

   3:43:08that the the project and the resort itself is going to be highly profitable over a sustainable period of time. So if these figures that they gave me are accurate, I think we can feel confident that the resort will prosper and be sustained as a very good business downstream into the

   3:43:29Regarding tax impact, we did a complete evaluation of the ad valorem tax generation of the project as proposed against what's here and being collected now. And our determination was that the mass facility as proposed will generate additional ad valorem general tax revenue of $1,050,000 a year once the project's completed in 2026.

   3:43:58The project itself is an enormous undertaking. The total development budget for areas one and two are about $203 million. And in that figure, they've built in financing and carry costs. And the renovation of the resort is $53,300,000. They did not include Finance carry, but that's a substantial investment. And I thought it was important to note that in their

   3:44:28internal pro forma, they had a construction and development schedule. So they're proposing to commence the resort renovation the second fourth quarter of 2023. So that'll be October, December of this year. And they're not prepared to begin. the construction and site improvements at development areas one and two until the third quarter of 24. So you're basically got a three-quarter of a year head start on the resort itself, and that makes sense because

   3:44:58you have to, if you're relocating the training facility in the range, you have to have a place for it to go. And the completion dates are aligned with the same three-quarter of a year variance. The resort renovation is projected to be complete the second quarter of 2025. And the the development will be completed as projected in development areas one and two the first quarter of 2026. So b based on that in the hiring schedule. They

   3:45:29have a in 2021 they had about 153 reported employees at the at the premises. Um I believe it's now about 255 employees. And at the completion of the project, the renovation of the resort facility, we'll have 323 addition employees. So they are ramping up the employees and then they have a terminal date and I think two thousand thirty-two where they're projecting three hundred and fifty-four employees.

   3:45:59So it's contributing to the local economy, it's generating tax revenue, and the rural resort, and this is important, can stand on its own without any additional development. So that's my report.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:46:13Any follow up? Yep. All right, David, a couple of questions for you. Uh when you were here sixty days ago, I asked you the difference between what's the resort going to be like as far as creating jobs, between having apartments, uh economic impact and having let's say condo hotels, as well as comparing it from twenty seven holes to thirty-six holes. The numbers seem to be a little bit different.

   David Engel

   3:46:34Well they're not different, sir. You add asked me specifically.

   3:46:42So let's

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:46:43go back to the difference between having an apartment to condo hotel on the tax base.

   David Engel

   3:46:46All right. So you had asked me to do a hypothetical what if what if there were no apartments there and the driving range was to remain where it is now, and we built internal to the project uh a hotel. So I did that generic analysis and it was determined that a hotel would be far greater employer as an inc than apartments and that the tax generation and the economic impact could be superior in that sense

   3:47:17too.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:47:17So the ultimate product for the for for returners are really condo hotels versus apartments and keeping the 36 as opposed to 27?

   David Engel

   3:47:24Well I I didn't do an analysis of that. There's no way for me to model that.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:47:28Okay. So we just stick with the jobs then for the having apartments compared to Conda Hotel, the jobs are much stronger, much better for economic development.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:47:43But don't don't those apartments.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:47:46Um what I also look at is from what you just showed with the numbers, which is pretty close to what I heard. So 153 employees a c couple years ago, 255 currently, at the end they think they'll be at 323.

   David Engel

   3:47:58Uh yes, sir, and at the terminal completion date of the resort.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:48:02Okay. Now I think s I he I've heard and I've heard it from several sources, including Well, some very substantial folks from years ago, uh, that the in its heyday they had about eight hundred employees. Side about the way was the way it was run before.

   David Engel

   3:48:17I don't have historic data survey.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:48:18I mean it's a dramatic drop in difference. When you look at your study that's on our item P fifty eight that we just went through, um one of the things they were talked about jobs in Pasco County. We have two hundred and sixty-three thousand people that are employed that live in Pasco County.

   David Engel

   3:48:35That's right.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:48:36We only have 187,000 jobs. If the numbers are accurate, From the eight hundred. To the three twenty three, we're losing like another four hundred and seventy jobs that could be here compared to where they're gonna have to compute to go somewhere else.

   David Engel

   3:48:51Well that's correct sir and you know the mission that the board has uh pushed me off on is to create more jobs in the county and less commuting time out of the county.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:49:02And I think you're doing a phenomenal job. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions for David? Yes.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:49:07Ms.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:49:07Snarke?

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:49:10If they were if they built a condo hotel in the front, wouldn't that cannibalize? The condos inside the resort?

   David Engel

   3:49:19Well I I had asked for a a market study and Mass position from day one was that there's enough keys internal to the resort. Um I made an argument that potentially because Wesley Chapel is short hotel space and we have recreational elements uh that the county is is running next door. and all the other things that you know, we would generate hotel requirements and we're short hotel space that perhaps there was more demand, but we never went

   3:49:50further than that and I I would have to ask our our destination management office to get involved and maybe have their consultant take a look at it. I don't have that expertise

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:50:00I just mean if if you're one of these people that owns a condo that gets rented out um by guests in the resort. I don't think they would want competition outside the front door, um, for a a condo. To compete with the inside. So that's why I maybe it didn't go very far with this development company.

   David Engel

   3:50:20Well that's that's specifically what they said.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:50:22Yeah, well yeah. I'm not a developer but

   David Engel

   3:50:25Common sense.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:50:27Common sense.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:50:28Okay. Mr Mr Chair, since Mr Engel has offered new expert testimony, I do think you need to give the applicant a chance to rebut if they want to. I'm not saying they have to, but Do you want to, Barbara? Okay.

   David Engel

   3:50:42Any additional questions? Thank you very much.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:50:50Okay, any elsewhere from staff? Okay. Okay, board discussion.

   3:50:59Uh I don't like a comment. So sent to Dave David if that was you what you sent to me. I just want you to read that to everybody.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:51:14So I yes, you're asking me to read an email the commission the chair asked what are the basis that you can deny a comprehensive plan amendment and I made it clear to him that they are legislative decisions, that they can be denied for just about any reason as long as it's not an arbitrary and capricious reason. Um but typically it would be a slight lack of compassion. compatibility or inadequate supporting infrastructure or lack of internal consistency with the Com plan. I was

   3:51:44answering this question in a very generic sense without regard to any particular plan amendment, but I still stand by that yes, those are reasons you could deny a plan amendment if you if the board so wanted to.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:51:55Okay. So I would say that we've heard lots of testimony about having an MPUD in place and now the effects of what's gonna go on and you've heard views across the board about different things about what people are concerned about, et cetera. Um Saddleburgh has been a jewel for many, many years, created a lot of jobs, created a lot of income, created a image for Pasco County that's been phenomenal. And uh I just I think we should look real close at this because I just I hate to

   3:52:25see what happened to the people down in Miami where they built an apartment complex in an area, nice area, they left it, as we heard, they got ratings of one on a Yelp. And they said at that point, wasn't us, we don't own it anymore, it's not our property. I just would hate to see that same type of thing happen to Saddam Market. I think we can do better.

   Seth Weightman

   3:52:47Yeah, sorry, Ms. Chan. Good.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:52:50Commissioner Weightman.

   Seth Weightman

   3:52:51Thank you. No, this is a transmittal. This doesn't obligate anybody. The decision made today on the transmitter does not obligate anything to this project. I think everybody has a clearer understanding of the direction of this project. I think it's important that we take a step forward and we ensure that the resort receives a lifeline and comes

   3:53:21back to life. It's a new day. There's a new customer base. We also have to balance. The existing customers of the residents and their needs and desires that live there that made your investment. And it's my commitment to you that we'll work with Mass, and Mass has heard this on plenty of occasions from our office, that our office will not Budge from the notion of protecting your investment and

   3:53:51ensuring a quality development, a quality project. With that said, I'm willing to move forward with a transmittal. today. That's

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:54:00your motion.

   Seth Weightman

   3:54:01That's that's a motion, but before I make it formal and go on the record publicly to masked on area one I share the same sentiments of a lot of residents here. I'm not overly enthusiastic about the multifamily in that area and the density in that area. But moving forward with the transmittal, which doesn't obligate us. to committing a hundred percent to this project, it's just moving forward. That way we can ensure Mass the ability to say, okay, we're moving forward and they can keep reinvesting in the resort

   3:54:31and in the golf course to keep Blood flowing in into that area to revitalize the area and keep value coming there. So as we move forward with motion, should this pass, I'm on motion to support the transmittal. uh Mass and the team we're gonna be playing very close attention to the area one. We're gonna be challenging you on Area One. So with that, thank you for everybody who came. I saw the Pines kids,

   3:55:02at least one of the two that were here today that that uh what's your name again for the record? Jocelyn another another Jocelyn. Thank you for coming another day in a real life civics lesson. And uh you know hopefully you're learning something from it and something to take back to school. Um so with that and with my cautious motion to move the transmittal forward and I look forward to working towards a final product that

   3:55:32everybody can hopefully come even closer together on here. in the coming days. So I'm I make a motion to move. I second that motion. Mr. Chairman Mariano

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:55:41can I ask for clarification on the motion.

   Seth Weightman

   3:55:43Move forward the uh transmittal of

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:55:46Does that include adding the back of the requirement for the 27-hole golf course or not? Because Barbara said she'd be willing to do that if the board passed or two. I'm just asking, does that does your motion include inserting that? Say that again. So the language about it being a twenty-seven-hole golf course was removed. So

   Seth Weightman

   3:56:06you your your head was turned away from the

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:56:10Language previously that said that the golf course would be at least a 27-hole golf course. That language was removed from the transmittal document. The applicant has stated they are willing to have that language put back in if the board directs her to do so. My question is, does your motion include reinserting the requirement for the twenty seven whole golf course?

   Seth Weightman

   3:56:31Yes. Okay. Yes. With the deed restrictions and the covenants and the ninety

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:56:36nine

   Seth Weightman

   3:56:36years and the extensions and

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   3:56:37Well yeah, to be clear, that's that's a private deed restriction that's not necessarily part of your transmittal and we can address the extent to which the deed restrictions are also part of the M P D conditions when the MPD comes through. But my

   Seth Weightman

   3:56:49motion on transmittal adds the protections that the applicant masses made. That's the compromise to the residents here. So whatever captures what's the commitment to them and the benefit of the resident is what my motion is. With

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:57:04the 27 host.

   Seth Weightman

   3:57:05With the 27 holds.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:57:05Exactly with the second

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:57:06and our second. Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:57:08I think it's not More discussion? Any anything from the first No. Okay. Commissioner Starkey.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:57:16I just wanna say um I think you know I I'm a somewhat frequent visitor of Saddlebrook, nothing like Commissioner Mariano over here. Because uh I don't play golf really. Um but I would say that uh it is a community of lovely people. Um you guys represented your community very well. Both sides did and um had good decorum here. Sometimes we don't get that, so I appreciate The quality of residents that live in Saddlebrook and

   3:57:46make an investment here in Pasco County. I also appreciate the quality of this company Mass coming forward. I can tell you, because I mentioned my son is in real estate world, lives in Greenwich, Connecticut, not down here. But I know that there are many. Many development groups have been c have come to Saddlebrook over the years and tried to purchase it. And the numbers just didn't work and they have walked. And I am um and

   3:58:17my our s my son's company's been approached three times to invest in this product. So I am really excited to see a company uh like Mast come in and make this investment and they've had a little rocky road here with us but I think we've gotten to a good place. Um I think when they first came in and we were seeing some of the plants and they weren't matching, it was a little confusing for for us commissioning. Yeah. Um but I've looked at your other projects. I've never had the opportunity to

   3:58:47go to Little Palm Island, but it's in my bucket list. Um never been to Hawks Kay either, uh but these are two top-notch resorts in the keys. So I did a little research on you guys and did a little bit of asking around. This is we're lucky to have a company like this. And when I look at the mixed use development that they're bringing outside of Saddlebrook, I wish we had more of those. I mean that's that's what we should want when we get an apartment uh complex here, a mixed

   3:59:17vertical use building with that wonderful stuff underneath and I just wish I wish we could you know, I try and make the developments that come in my area, I try and make 'em look like that as much as I can now because I think we've made some mistakes in the past and we mentioned that earlier today, so I'm I'm in support and um and I hope that uh at the end of the day everyone is very proud of the changes that will come to a who settlement.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:59:43Commission Bradford?

   Gary Bradford

   3:59:47I wanted to let you know that I have the utmost respect for you, Jeremy Mariano, and the way you've worked. I apologize for the voice and uh the struggle I'm having today. I'm really proud of everybody, how they've toned it down.

   4:00:06Everybody's getting along. It's tough sometimes when you have uh differences of opinion. It's your home. Uh, nothing beats your home. And I get that. I met with people early on from Saddlebrook. I was impressed with the quality of those people. I got a long history with Salibok personally, even though I don't play golf anymore. Uh Bass has done a good job. Um

   4:00:38I've been impressed with your plans. I think you got some work to do in Area One like Seth, Shoitman. But um I think we can get this done. And the only civics that I would be able to share is uh I'd be over there on that guy's lap asleep.

   4:01:01Take care of Well it would be so anyway, thank you.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:01:07Commissioner Oakley. Yeah. I um I'm very much in support of uh Mass and doing what they're doing and I'm also in support of the citizens there that that live in that area. Uh I actually was a member of the Gulf Horse back in 1979. So I played back then and and and George Gorse even helped work on some of the holes to make 'em back when the referums were there at Saddlebrook. So um or right prior to Saddlebrook. So

   4:01:37that's a great resort. I think Mass their only benefit out of putting all this money in there is for a win is to make sure that that front shows what Salbrook's all about and and Brings that architect up because unless they do that and and make it very good for for the residents and and for the resort itself, Mass cannot win. They've got to do the right thing to make a win for themselves because they didn't buy that

   4:02:07just to lose money. They bought that so they can improve it, make it better, and in the long run everybody will share in the benefit they're gonna get from them coming and and uh purchasing this property and and making it something that we can all be proud of in the future. It'll be a new saddle rope, but it It'll be one that we'll all be very, very proud of. So

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:02:29thank you. Thank you. I like to say the Saddlebrook Resort is great. The people are even better. You guys conducted yourself tremendously professionally. I think the logic you had was great. It's just a phenomenal place that Mr. Dempsey and the family have done and crafted in the years. the past years I I do agree it it has needed some work and does need some work. Uh but I just hate to see the risk of making such a dramatic change, especially

   4:02:59with apartments. We've got enough in West Chapel in my opinion already. Um I want to compliment Mass though. Uh they were professional. Uh we sat down, we had a few strong conversations across the board. I couldn't sway them to where I thought they needed to go or where they should go. Uh But I do want to say the professionalism that they have gives me the inkling that maybe they can make some great things happen coming out. And I look forward to working with you to make it happen. Uh you know, my Board of County Commissioners, I greatly appreciate you guys. You guys We're in it, we talk about it, and

   4:03:29we go and get the dialogues out, which is what you have to do to make this board work. Um I do want to say to Maston my and the board members as well, and I said this before But when it comes down to renovating, it's gonna get expensive, the right things need to get done. I think the bones of the golf courses out there are phenomenal. Um I hate to see you just rip things up that you don't need to, but I will say that You guys have put a lot of money into stormwater utility funds over the years. That it's critical that you guys get

   4:03:59that stormwater improved. It's gonna affect wire grass right beside it. There's been lawsuits back and forth. I'd like to see us work together to try to help you, even work with Swift Mont to get more funding to get as much of the drainage improved as we can out there because it's gonna benefit the whole area. Um as far as as as I said, the hotel condo concept, you get people invested a lot of money and a lot of Of places spent from what I'm hearing $250,000 and those things are going for $30,000 now. It rips my heart out for those people,

   4:04:30especially the school teacher with the values going down. I would love to work with you through permitting, and hopefully the board will support. We'll expedite all your permitting for you. We'll simplify the process to help you help those people get their pro no, really, we're gonna help them. It's gonna help us. We've got money sitting there. around doing

   Liam Devine

   4:04:45nothing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:04:46Let's go take the permitting funds that we would normally generate and let's go get them so they can renovate those properties because if we've got hotels in this whole Wesley Chapel area at ninety five to ninety five per ninety five to ninety seven percent, it's on our best interest to get them to go through. Um And I do think, you know, putting the spa back in place and T D Steakhouse back out there will help your resort grow. And I think golf is booming. And I think the numbers show they are booming. And I think you you you got a great opportunity. So uh Commissioner

   4:05:17Starkey's yellow at me that she's gotta go. So I'm gonna call the I'll call for the vote. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed say nay. Nay.

   4:05:28Thank you all. So we'll take just a quick minute break here while everybody clears out.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:05:34Be careful. Don't forget your path.

   Unidentified speakerVoice S

   4:05:39Yeah. Yeah.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:05:45Yeah, sure.

   4:05:48You say we're taking a break?

   Dade City

   4:06:51My email? Lovely.

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:06:59Well wouldn't have been my first story, but I

   4:07:03think

   Paul Paul Grinshaw

   4:08:05Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:11:22Looking right up.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:12:57Right.

   4:12:59He did? Um Stark is gone. So

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:13:04we

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   4:13:04got

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:13:04four we got we have four members still. Mr. Bradford's gonna try to hang in as long as he can and Mr. Wait, we're gonna try to go quick. We've got two items to go. Uh two or

   Unidentified speakerVoice B

   4:13:12three?

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   4:13:15Fifty eight, fifty nine.

5. 5Jul 11, 2023
   Board of County CommissionersP54Public hearingAdopted

   Approved minutes

   Approved to adopt by roll call vote with Chairman Mariano voting nay.

   Open this item →▶ Play from 2:09:05
   ▶ 2:09:051h 55m

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:09:05Call the meeting back to order. Item P fifty four, madam, do we have proof?

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:09:09We do. Tampa Bay Times, July 2nd, 2023, and by affidavit of site postings.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:09:15Thank you.

   Amy Heiler

   2:09:32Good afternoon, Amy Toll with Planning and Development. The item before you is the adoption hearing for the proposed comprehensive plan amendment in the name of CPA 22, I'm sorry, O1, I think it is. Off the top of my head, I don't have that on me. Um Saddlebrook Resort Plan Development. Um so I will go ahead and read the ordinance into record. Uh, an ordinance amending the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan. Providing for a large-scale comprehensive plan amendment

   2:10:03to the future land use map 2-15 in sheet 22 from Res 6 residential 6 dwelling units per gross acre to PD plan development on approximately 420.37 acres of real property located at the south located to the south of State Road 54 and east of Service Road, and a text amendment creating sub-area policy. Flu 7.1.66 Saddlebrook Resort and a MAP amendment to the future land use map 2-9, adding sub-area map 2-966 Saddlebrook Resort

   2:10:33and providing for additional text amendments as necessary for internal consistency, providing for a repealer, severability, and an effective date. So we'll go ahead and go through the presentation. Again, this is the adoption hearing. The proposal is a comprehensive plan amendment from Res 6 Residential 6 Dwelling Units per Gross Acre to PD plan development to allow for the revitalization of an existing golf course and tennis course, or golf and tennis courses, as well as mixed-use multifamily

   2:11:03development along State Road 54. The location is south of State Road 54 and east of the service road. And again, there is an associated sub-area policy in the name of Sub-area Policy Flu 7.166, creating the Saddlebrook Resort PD sub-area and associated sub-area map 2-9. There is also an accompanying rezoning petition that will be heard alongside this proposed amendment. So the site's currently located in the South Market Area and Urban Service Area.

   2:11:33Here is your aerial view of the proposed PD flu, of where where it will be located. Here is the visual identifying the existing land use or future land use being Res 6, surrounded by Res 6. And the proposed future land use of P D, Plan Development.

   2:11:55The applicant has submitted a sub-area plan to run alongside the PD Flu classification. Within the sub-area plan, there are four different areas identified, area one being located. to the uh west side, so area one. Area two. Area three being the internal and then area four being um your golf course area. So we'll go into some

   2:12:26detail there. This is the proposed MPUD conceptual plan. You will also see this in the MPUD presentation as well, but it provides a little bit more detail for those areas. So the proposed conceptual plan, um, and this uh I apologize, but this will be repetitive between the comp plan and the uh MPUD, so I'll try to fly through this as best as I can. Um, proposed area one is proposed as a mixed-use trip reduction measure MUTRUM project. Um, proposed

   2:12:56area one is including um let's see, 75. Square feet of commercial office or commercial retail office, 465 dwelling units of multifamily and 35 dwelling units of townhomes in this area. As you can see, there's also a Vision Road extension identified that the applicant and the MPD conditions of approval will discuss further about the construction and extension. from

   2:13:26State Road fifty four to wire grass. Uh area 52, development area two will include a 25,000 square feet proposed uh office retail uh commercial component as well as 120 dwelling units in this area. Um this area is not act not intended to act as part of the Saddlebrook Resort community, but more so on an on its own. Um additionally, uh and again this will be Also represented in the MPUD.

   2:13:57The applicant has submitted, I did submit your doc you documents via email earlier today, and I'll move to receive and file it along the MPUD to show that there is a proposed connection located at the intersection of Van Dyne and State Road 54. Um they have an alignment proposed and updated conditions of approval to speak to that component as well.

   2:14:26And the proposed sub-area plan as identified here, so this is showing area three and four. Area three and four being your yellow area. Area three and four is intended to act as the tennis and pickleball courts with other similar outdoor racket sports, as well as area three B. So that was 3A is going to be your yellow area. 3B is going to be your resort itself with a clubhouse, restaurant, cart barn maintenance, etc. Those are all set forth

   2:14:56in the sub-area plan. Additionally, area four, uh there was a restrict there were uh areas in the restricted restricted area four that speaks to the golf course, uh, renovations and reduction of Gulf horse holes to twenty-seven holes. Uh the proposed amendment um is uh Is proposing to relocate the driving range from Area One, which is in its current location being at the southwest or the northwest corner of the Saddleback Resort area and the entrance,

   2:15:27to the southeast corner. As you see here, they're proposing to relocate the driving range. In the proposed sub-area plan as well as the MPD conditions of approval, the golf course is intended to act or be maintained. Maintained as a golf course and associated facilities only. There will be no other changes to that outside of this the use of the golf course and the facilities. So the proposed amendments consisted with the following comprehensive plan policies.

   2:15:57And with that we recommend you approve the proposed comprehensive plan amendment and adopt by roll call vote. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:16:07Amy um You sent us the other night a uh we just got the new plan for the new golf course layout.

   Amy Heiler

   2:16:13Correct. Um that was just a proposed just to be clear, that was uh the proposal for a pre-up that's scheduled for next week. So it could change, but that's just what they're they have submitted for the pre-application for next week.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:16:24Okay. Thank you. Any questions for staff?

   2:16:30Do they up again?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:16:42Good afternoon, Barbara Wilheis, 2327 Grand Boulevard for the Applicant. What is that roll? What is it down?

   2:16:54We dressed alike today.

   2:17:07I guess I could fill this time for a moment, but um we do have some things for the record that I've already given to the clerk. One being the PowerPoint presentation you're about to see, and the second thing being the transportation comprehensive plan transportation needs assessment documents that are in the county's file, nothing new that the county doesn't have. I've given those to the clerk if he would receive and file before I forget about them.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:17:30General motion?

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:17:34Oh

   Unidentified speakerVoice T

   2:17:35my god, so.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:17:38Regime five? Broke all vote.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:17:42District One, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   2:17:52Commissioner Weightman.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:17:54Sorry.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:17:55Sorry, Barbara. Hold on Barbara. And then District Five Chairman Mariano.

   District Five Chairman

   2:17:59Thank you.

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:18:01As you can see here, we've been at this for a while. We've had quite a bit of community outreach and that's the the listing of the 31 plus meetings, seven town hall meetings, 15 meetings with three different groups since your BOCC hearing on 2-7. We have reached an agreement with the Saddleboro Condo Association Board of Directors. They represent 657 unit owners. and they have formally approved the private restrictive covenant between the association and my client. The agreement that sets forth my client's obligation to record

   2:18:31this restrictive covenant upon approval, um assuming approval here, and that becoming effective um was signed by Mast and um the condo association yesterday. So Assuming this all move forward and this becomes effective, that community will be protected forever. from the ability of what has happened in many other places where a golf course is converted to a to a non-residential use or another residential use other than golf or open space. At each

   2:19:01public hearing we send out a thousand notices, probably reach about two thousand people. We do that each time for every hearing and we update them with plans and narratives so they can see exactly what we're doing. I just described the public the private restrictive covenant.

   2:19:18Why are we requesting the to amend the comp plan? We are not um the comp plan amendments not needed for the townhomes or the apartments. We can seek those under the comp plan as it exists today. The current multifamily the current comprehensive plan maximum is 1,779 residential units. Those could be single family townhomes and are multifamily. The Compoint Amendment is needed to allow for the resort and commercial retail office uses because the current residential land use conflicts

   2:19:49with these uses. The other thing this Com Plan does is overly restricts my client. But we're agreeable to that. And we volunteered to do that to ourselves. So we took a land use that would allow 1,779 residential units, including units from a complan perspective, on the golf course, and restricted those units off of the golf course, not only through the comprehensive plan, but also through that private deed restriction. Are there existing entitlements under the MPUD? Yes, and they're listed there.

   2:20:19Walking Village, Lakeside Village, Fairway Village, and Commercial. Hundred thousand square feet. So if you look at what's remaining in the MPD and what we're proposing, it's an increase of three hundred and seventy-eight units.

   2:20:33The binding sub area plan. I've never done a binding sub-area plan. This was my first and I'll say there's many firsts when it comes to this project and the paperwork and what we've done. But this is our required PD concept plan. It's called a PD sub-area plan because it's binding. It sets forth where new permitted uses can be located, talks about them sets forth the maximum densities and intensities for area one and two, and it limits the new development areas 3A and 3B, and it restricts area four, which is the current golf course. This is the pi the C D the uh P D

   2:21:03sub area plan that you're considering with um with this action on the comp plan? Update since your transmittal hearing? Since your transmittal hearing, you your staff sent the amendment to the Department of Economic Opportunity and Department of Economic Opportunity reviewed it and advised they didn't have any comments. Um that letter was received on May 5th. As agreed at the transmittal hearing, there was some confusion about our version of restricted area number four. And so we made sure, like we said

   2:21:33we would, make sure the 27-hole golf course language is in restricted area four, we said we would do that, and we made sure that it was been carried through the documents. This is this is um development area one has been described by um by your staff.

   2:21:49What I want to talk about with regard to development area one is and how it fits into context. Development area one is set forth on State Route 54 with is which is a major arterial roadway. But not only that, it also is next to your vision road and it in your the documents that we s gave you up to Dais, there is a map It looks like this. This is just a piece of that parallel vision system up there. This map here, this exhibit here shows you what this

   2:22:19actually is gonna be. And you're talking about a major parallel road. And we're the red piece on here So we're like missing leg. Um wire grass is only obligated to do The um Vision Road H up until Y Rest Boulevard. So So not only are we at 54, we're actually at a major intersection. Traffic can come from Hillsburg County when the road's finished, come by our project, and then up all the way to State Road 52, as you can see on this exhibit. The

   2:22:49other thing that's kind of significant too is that we were not only the we're not only preparing for not only going to do the missing leg that Wiregrass doesn't have to do, but we're also the missing right-of-way. because normally you would split the right of way for such a road between two property owners, but because of the alignment of where Vision Road H will continue north, It needs to be on the my client's property. So we're not only the missing leg on Wire Brass's property, but we're the missing right-of-way on my client's property, about five acres of property to achieve that vision

   2:23:20road and to get it lined up so we can continue to go north and continue your vision all the way up to fifty t State Road 52.

   2:23:30And this is the missing link going through wire graphs of your vision road. The other thing I wanted to point out uh is the buffering, the natural buffering that occurs between area one And the existing community, you can see the acreages there, the existing wooding area on the west side of Savabroof Way, about 20 acres, and on the east side, 2.77. So quite a bit of existing buffering. It's also that's important to context

   2:24:00when you're looking at compatibility and density and intensity.

   2:24:06Sub area this is the development area one. It's a village center, mudderum, um 75,000 square feet of commercial retail, townhomes, multifamily. Multifamily has to be located like behind the non-residential. I would say that the MPUD changes the townhome number, but we were under Strict do not change paperwork. So the comp plan still has the 35 uh townhomes because we couldn't change the paperwork. We can certainly, if that's the board's pleasure, change the paperwork to be consistent with the NPUD about the number

   2:24:36of townhomes. What happened with the townhomes was when we were asked at Planning Commission to do a specific and enhanced buffer plan for Saddleburgh Way My client took a look at the concept plan, took a look at the town homes. And one of the questions we were asked of what is our buffering gonna be for townhomes that back up, directly back up to Saddleback Way? So Not asked by Planning Commission, not asked by staff, but looking at it and coming up with the best buffering plan for Saddlebrook Way, we've eliminated those units. So those townhomes that would have backed

   2:25:06up to Saddlebrook Way are now gone and those will be additional green space as well as landscaping.

   2:25:13Development area two, townhomes and commercial retail office, townhomes being behind the commercial retail consistent with your policies of how you want to see development along State Road 54. You don't want to see the residential on 54, you want to see it behind non-residential uses, which is the same thing that we're doing over in development area one.

   2:25:34Area two is being added to the boundary and Our only access will be to and from State Route 54. We made sure that um pursuant to the to the request of the community that we have no uh bike pad or vehicular connection to Saddleburgh Resort to our south. And as stated by staff, we were asked to be a little bit more than a little bit of uh last week, late last week, by your county administrator to take a really close look to see if area two Could be um developed in a manner that it would have access to

   2:26:04the signalized intersection and not be a right in and write out. And we did that work over the weekend. Your staff reviewed it over the weekend and we wrote a condition with the County Attorney's Office and your staff yesterday. So our Access from that development area to will be at the signalized intersection, existing signalized intersection, no right-in and write out.

   2:26:27Area three A and three B are areas where um We're going to be limited in what we do in 3A as well as 3B. That's the purpose of this, is again to limit ourselves in our comp plan. This is the language for 3A. The language for three B

   2:26:47Restricted area four. Again, we're taking on your comprehensive plan which allows envisions residential development development in all of area restricted area four and we're restricting it. um to golf course and open space. And the restrictive covenant even goes further because early on when we started working with residents and groups of residents and their council, because they were there's actually council that were engaged by the Condo Resort Condo Association. They said Not good enough to do that. 'Cause

   2:27:17it only takes three votes to undo it. So that's where my client stepped up and I've never seen this before in all my career. A client who would restrict their property Through a restrict private restrictive covenant. They're committed to do what they say. And if it's not Actions speak louder than words and the action of signing that agreement yesterday regarding the restrictive covenant is an action that speaks louder than words. The restricted area for language has been reviewed before. These are the renderings uh for the entrance.

   2:27:49This is the village center. All the things we've always aspired for um for a project to do and to bring a village center, a well um designed Um place. You have to to have uh specialty retail in the place where we all want to go eat. the Saturday night and our entertainment, you have to have density. They support each other. There's a reason why you see a development pattern. which we hear is not your preferred pattern where we just see strip Publix

   2:28:20plazas and out parcels with China Express and all and Taco Bell and those types of things because they're serving regional traffic. There's not enough density and proximity to those use to those retail uses to be anything other than traffic oriented and regional oriented. So For this to be successful, it needs the density. And that's why it's been proposed as it is. We get criticized for not changing it, but if you change it, you don't have it. It won't be that place. It won't be the

   2:28:50mudderum that the county has has asked for us to do. Again, another rendering. These are renderings for this project. These are not inspirational. These were done by the developer for what they intend to do.

   2:29:05And this is a rendering of the townhomes. Now, you can see this rendering has two sides. By the time it was done, our area one had two sides, but they took off all of the ones on the left side in our concept plan. So there will only be townhomes on one side, green space on the green space, and landscaping and buffering on the other. And with that, thank you. We do have a presentation on the MPD. I don't know how you ought to ultimately want to hear 'em. Um some of the more details that you probably want to hear are in the MPUD, but

   2:29:35we've had to keep the consistent comp plan and MPUD because I didn't know how you want to hear it, so.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:29:40Um Pleasure Board, I think we got public comment on both items both ways. So do you want to hear b both of them back to back or just do one, get input, and then come back again for the uh

   2:29:53And V U D after.

   2:29:59The two I mean the they are separate, they're gonna be different arguments to each one, so I'll be looking at the right-of-way.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:30:04I would I would prefer from a legal standpoint, I would prefer you take them separate. But if there but if there is but if there is something in that you think would persuade you one way or another in the zoning because that you want it that you wanna hear about But I would So it's just it's just clearer if you if you just do the lay this is a P D comprehensive plan amendment. You've got a certain amount of detail in it. Hear it. Hear your public comment on

   2:30:34it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:30:35So let's let's do it that way and and we'll give you time to rebut as well as staff to rebut or

   Barbara Wilhite

   2:30:39I I've seen the applic I mean I've seen the uh the presenters and they have separate PowerPoints so it'll probably be easiest for all of you. Let's see.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:30:48Commissioner Starkey.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:30:49Um so we all have in front of us Rule 10 under public comment. I would ask the county attorney to read 10.3.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:31:01Be happy to um

   2:31:07The Chairman shall request public comment from speakers in order which they their name appears on the list. An individual speaker shall be given three minutes to present his his or her comments to the board. For public hearing items, persons who have been authorized in writing to represent an organization with five or more members. Members or groups of five or more persons shall be entitled to speak for up to fifteen minutes without interruption, provided that others in that organization

   2:31:38waive their time Yeah. in i in the written authorization. Upon approval by the Chairman or majority vote of the board, a speaker's time may be extended. Hearings on zoning and other quasi judicial matters shall be conducted in accordance with Rule ten, Rule 12.1 in the same manner as such hearings have been conducted in the past.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:32:01And um so I have been asking and asking the attorney representing What's the name?

   Unidentified speakerVoice U

   2:32:09Same

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:32:10Saddleburg Coalition for the members of the coalition but um attorneys office has asked we've asked I've got nothing except that she represents a group so we don't have so our requirements here say that it's supposed to be uh in authorized in writing to receive five minutes or more or anyone a or anyone

   2:32:40speaking for a group. These are our rules. So You know, I don't understand the reluctance to give us the names of the people in the group. Um Uh but I just wanted to bring this to your attention.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:32:53Okay, so to help the board with that in I'll I'll answer if I Um The people she represents are afraid of retribution. Uh they wanted to remain ne secret. They w Why? Because they're gonna speak developers try to change the quality of life. So having said that, they asked when they signed up to re re be able to re name remain anonymous to go forward. So for that reason is why they're not giving you anything.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:33:19That's like getting an argument in writing from someone they've they don't sign it. So I mean you got something but it means nothing without a signature.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:33:28Okay. Well I'm I I'm gonna say the The list of people that wanted extra time. I'm gonna I'll go through 'em. Uh Mr. Swope has spoken before. Andrew Pines and his wife and their kids had spoken before. She's not feeling well. Um he wanted to speak. He actually sent an email yesterday. I

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:33:45don't have him on the list. Is there a

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:33:47different list? No, I d he didn't make he didn't make the list, but he he did ask me and His wife was not sure if she was gonna be able to come or not, so I says well if she can't come um I'll get you six minutes. Um

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:33:58Well couldn't we couldn't we do this we could ask 'em not to take ten minutes because Well they and they may if they're bringing to us if they're bringing to us what we've heard already two and three times We don't need to rehash that. We want to see where we are today 'cause there's a lot of things changed since the other times we've spoken on this item.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:34:18I I think what we're gonna hear is be a lot of changes. I mean all of a sudden When the Planning Commission didn't get a presentation on the golf course, they've now submitted to Amy Highler, which sent to us that they've now submitted what the golf course is gonna be. We've been looking for the renovation program for how many months now? About a year? Seven months? That that we we heard it was coming from before that. It was just submitted last night at five thirty. Even though it was the dated July seventh. So evidently they're holding stuff back for us to get last second so we

   2:34:48can see them all disjointed. I'm just trying to make it where these people that our lives are going to be dramatically changed get a chance to be heard. So I got Andrew Pine for six minutes. Sw uh Mr. Swope for five minutes. Patrick Hogan. He's gonna have a presentation about what could have been done instead. Uh Jane Ho Hagan, the the attorney. Larry Barbetta, he's spoken a few times. His wife doesn't want to speak. He's gonna speak. And that's just for item 54. The next one will be P 58. Uh Andrew again, he may not need his full time. Andrew Pines.

   2:35:19Uh Patrick Hogan just needs five minutes here, ten minutes, uh for Jane f and then Uh ten more minutes for Larry. And they may not take it all, but they wanted to have it. And

   Unidentified speaker

   2:35:29I

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:35:30never held back on the applicant to get all the time she wanted as well. And I won't hold it back from her bottle either. So I I just want to get it open. We're here, it's early. Let's get the dialogue going. Let's talk it through.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   2:35:42Because that's that's what we're here for.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:35:44I'm okay with the three minutes for each one, other than Jane, even though She didn't submit the names, she can get extended time. But I'm not okay with giving everyone just arbitrary extra time.

   2:35:57Okay, so I'm asking the other two board members if you'll grant the children. Well you've already said what you wanted to do. Oh I'm sorry, la I'm sorry. Yeah. Sorry, yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:09Sorry, Commissioner Bradford there. So with that said, I'd like to give everyone as as it's on the list to give them the the uh Time to to talk to each item as as listed here.

   Seth Weightman

   2:36:19You want an opinion?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:20I need a I need a motion.

   Seth Weightman

   2:36:21Well that one hour I talked about earlier, is it up for negotiation right now? Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:28Mr Chairman M based on your rules, you grip You granted the time.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:35Okay.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:36I would not take the time away.

   2:36:40Okay. If you all want to talk about how you do this in the future, we can we can do that in all business.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:47Very good. Thank you. We're gonna

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:36:48have to amend this

   District Five Chairman

   2:36:48thing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:49Thank you, well thank you. Okay. Um

   District Five Chairman

   2:36:53So do you want me to call an order on the list?

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:36:55Jane, who wants to come up first?

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:37:15While you're waiting for that to come up, can you give your name and address for the record?

   Jane Graham

   2:37:19Yes, good afternoon, Commissioner My name is Jane Graham, attorney and founder of Sunshine City Law, 737 Main Street, Suite 100, Safety Harbor. I do represent the Save Saddlebrook Coalition, a Florida nonprofit, open to individual residents and homeowner associations within the Saddlebrook Resort community, which includes both Fairway Village and the Saddlebrook property. Owners Association as well as 120, over 120 individual property owners.

   2:37:50We have appreciated the opportunity to work with Mast and today you're here, this is your final decision. This is big picture and specifics. And so we want to walk you through things and we will not be duplicating the same presentation as before. We appreciate the extra time and we're going to make this go fast. First of all, I'd like to talk about something that I just learned five minutes ago. that apparently there's now going to be a signal And in front of development area too. Now we have had meetings with the county

   2:38:20staff who had said that they a and MAST as well who said one of the reasons you can't shift density from development area one to two is because there wasn't a light. So this is something that we think should be looked at. Perhaps you would be able to shift some density from development area one to two. That's something that's new information. I think you should take that into account. The second thing that we just heard, which is different from what I had known, is that yesterday and I I do want to compliment Miss Wilhite,

   2:38:51I've really appreciated the opportunity to work with her, I'd asked her if um the restrictive covenant had been signed. She sent the companion agreement, but not the actual restrictive covenant. So if the restrictive covenant has been signed at this point, that's news to me and that that would be good, but we've yet to actually see that. So for this future land use map amendment, this is a legislative decision. What does that mean? This is your last opportunity to decide on the future of Saddlebrook. And

   2:39:21remember, you can make any decision on this based on what's not arbitrary and capricious. The county has a strong public purpose to renovate Saddlebrook and keep it as a unique tourist facility and economic driver in the area. The amendment, as you all know, replaces the driving range with four hundred and sixty-five apartments, now twenty-five townhomes, and retail. As a cascading effect, the driving range will be relocated to the golf course,

   2:39:51and the golf course will need to be rearranged. and reduced to twenty seven holes. This result will impact the quality and profitability of the resort. Now The optimal solution would be to maintain thirty six holes of golf. Now we do understand that we've had many conversations and the restrictive covenant is 27, but we do just want you to understand that the optimal solution would be 36 holes. And if there are alternatives to still consider, we

   2:40:22think you should keep an open mind. Why does this matter? There are comprehensive plan Sections and policies that require the promotion of tourism expansion. And so keep this in mind. This is this is important. Now, speaking about what are what's new from when we last spoke about this, this was sent up to the state, state agencies And DEO looked at it, they sent it back. Now You're still missing

   2:40:52information that you actually are supposed to have by law. Based on Florida statute, you need to have the future land use plan amendment based on surveys, studies, and data involving these various items. There were no comments received by from FIRE and Emergency. When you first voted on it, there were no comments, and today there's still no comments on it. Meanwhile, it is in the news that fire is under stress in Pasco County. On top of that, there are impacts

   2:41:22to police, and actually, in your agenda item, you do see a comment from the Mr. Chase Daniel. Annuals regarding the stress on Pasco County Sheriff's Office. I'm also including and I'm going to provide you a copy of this, a memorandum from uh 2021 from Sheriff Noko about just how stressed Uh multifamily development can cause what that can cause on the county infrastructure.

   2:41:54And I mean I here's the quote here: similar to what I hear about your county services, the Sheriff's Office has a difficult job keeping up with the current demand for services that our current citizens ask for and deserve quickly approving multifamily development. only exacerbates the problem. As many of you know who sat up here several years ago, you did have a um an apartment moratorium. Now that moratorium, the boundaries were outside. Of where Saddlebrook is. That's true. It's it's not exactly where it is, but it's very

   2:42:24close if you look at the map. and it only expired Um In twenty twenty two. where this is still, you know, an ongoing issue and again it's the burden on um for to have information that shows that this that this housing is actually supportable as far as the apartments versus having things like townhomes, you know, people being able to purchase, have you know, have their ownership experience. Another issue I wanted to

   2:42:54mention, and I know I'm running out of time, is where's the green space? This is the updated um project which you know we we are grateful that there were some townhomes that were turned into green space. We think that that's good. However, I mean I think ultimately if you look at all the parking in the multifamily area, that looks like that's really a a big issue and and perhaps maybe townhomes should be relocated somewhere else and rethought. I'm also going to provide

   2:43:24you a copy from Southwest Florida Water Management District, which I don't know I do not see in your your information that had been provided. It was a letter from May first in regards to the the amendment that said that, you know, based on the environmental aspects of this, there should be clustering development in upland areas, retaining naturally vegetated areas, and preserving previous, I think they mean pervious, surface areas. This is

   2:43:54also important based on the P D land use that you are approving. It's, you know, taking away recreation areas, disrupting the golf course, um, which actually is exactly the opposite of what Flu two A asks for, to create flexible and creative site design and sites for recreation, providing an area wide benefit for the community. I've already gone through these multiple inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan. I'm not going to talk about that again. I think that you have that information

   2:44:25already. Density and use, I mean, all of this said, because of the strain on infrastructure, we do urge you to look at what options there are to continue to reduce density in development area one.

   2:44:40And focusing the development again on the core of the resort to the best extent of your abilities. This is known as a Mutterum project, which is supposed to be mixed use, promoting interconnected compact development. My client is very much in favor of that. I think the question is how does it play out throughout the whole resort? They would like to see other options that still have more within the core. instead of outside at the periphery. Again the density is too high. Ultimately,

   2:45:11what are we asking you to do for this future land use? We want you to prioritize Saddlebrook Resort's unique role. It's an elite athletic facility. We know that it needs to be refurbished. Um we want to ensure that the new development is compatible and supported by the infrastructure. The coalition wants to be a good neighbor and make sure that this is that everyone flourishes in the future. As you're looking at this today and before you even get to the MPUD, you really need to ask yourself, how is this going

   2:45:41to work? What impact is this going to have on the golf course, which could have a cascading effect on the tourism, on the quality of the resort, on the types of uses that can happen, on the internal circulation, on the green space, which I will get into with more about the dimensions, by the way, in if this goes to the MPUD, because that is an interesting conversation. But while you're looking at this now, just really ask. yourself what can we do to make this a little bit better? We have truly appreciated

   2:46:11the opportunity to work with Mast. We have made a lot of headway. The restrictive covenant is a great step in the right direction. As I said optimally, there would still be 36 holes in the golf course because that would keep that would not force you to restructure things. Um and again, you know, this new information about the signal. at development area too. I mean we just have not seen anything about that. That's completely new information.

   2:46:42That's fantastic if that's true because that could open up some opportunities to shift density or come up with some more creative solutions. So we do urge you to to have these conversations and see what can be done. Thank you very much. And also I have um some documents for the For the record, um I have a letter which was emailed and then I also have a number of um things that are copied. I actually the letter includes both comments

   2:47:13on the Flume and the M P U D. So I mean I could put it in now or the M P U D, whatever you like.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:47:24District one, Commissioner Oakley. Aye. District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   2:47:34District 5, Chairman Mariano.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:47:37So like Mr. Swoke next.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:47:39I have a question, yes. Jane. Jane? Um you mentioned something about interior traffic. Right. And that you wanted to lessen the interior traffic. Uh-huh. So how far away from the Gulf The clubhouse area is the driving range.

   Jane Graham

   2:48:01Well this is what I would say. I'm there going to be some other speakers who will really um discuss what that means as far as internal traffic. Now the driving range right now is up um on fifty four as

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:48:15very far away from the center of the golfing area, correct? It's not near where you tee off on one or nine.

   Jane Graham

   2:48:24That's right. And I I think that Pat Hogan will be able to really explain

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:48:28that a lot more than I will. We're members of golf course and my son's members of a couple and have been to many golf courses and typically the driving range is n right near the clubhouse and where you start to golf. And I know my kids when they wanna go golfing and they wanna loosen up and start at the driving range. They don't have to drive all the way through a community to get to the driving range and then drive back.

   2:48:59So I just thought it was interesting you said you wanted to you you thought this was you talked about internal traffic.

   Jane Graham

   2:49:07Right. So the internal traffic is um less about the function of the golf course and more about during events and um kind of how things actually play out just for the residents. For anything involving golf, I will definitely defer to Mr. Patrick Hogan who um is you know, he has the expertise in that, so I I I can't claim to speak to

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:49:31So

   Jane Graham

   2:49:31So

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:49:31is any any of the increased density that's proposed outside. Um are they automatically members of Saddlebrook?

   Pimata Rosecott

   2:49:42Sorry?

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:49:42Why why why does increased density outside of the gates of Saddlebrook translate into increased driving in Saddlebrook?

   Jane Graham

   2:49:52Because of the way that it's been reconfigured and I think that you'll see um how um there will be some people kind of moving in and out of the um the entrance way.

   2:50:06But that's something like that the goal.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:50:07So are you saying that the residents don't want any outside traffic coming into Saddleburgh?

   Jane Graham

   2:50:12No, absolutely not. And I think that the residents do understand that and it's it's something that they can testify to as far as you know how this actually plays out. Um now there is the vision road, which, you know, that will have a big help, um, but you know what we would maintain is that you don't necessarily need the vision road if you didn't have that increase of density right on area one to begin with.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:50:41Well, I I don't understand how something outside of Saddlebrook Whether or not members of Saddlebrook increases traffic within Saddlebrook. That's just what I'm struggling with.

   Jane Graham

   2:50:52Right. And we'll have some people that will speak to that because that they'll they'll talk about how it actually functions. Um I w I was there some

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:51:02Yeah, I I think the access if if they have access to go from the apartments to go to the gate to the right. That's all those trips are going that way. So if that axis is that way, which I think it is. They're gonna go that way. Even with Division Road built, what's gonna happen is those people going if they're gonna go let's say to 75, they're gonna go up Division Road. They're gonna go up there? Either take a right turn and cross three lanes real quick and do a U turn coming back? Well they're gonna go

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:51:28through. 'Cause I've heard people say

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:51:32it's gonna affect the

   2:51:32right-of-way.

   2:51:33I know. Just listen just listen to me all the way through. They're gonna do either do that turn motion or they're gonna go to the gate where they can go to light, take a left turn and be protected and go all the way through. And I think they're saying that that traffic is what they're talking about. In the resort is really by the gate coming out.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:51:51By the light. At the light coming out.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:51:54By the gate. Because they're gonna go through the internal part to get to the gate and saddleboard to go all be able to get the light to be able to take a left to go up.

   Jane Graham

   2:52:02Yeah, the gate is being moved, so it's further down and that's why there will be a backup and that that's what the concern is. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:52:12Yeah. Okay, so the next individual signed up is Keith Swope.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:52:18Yeah. Like it has the same display.

   Jack MarianoChair

   2:52:23He's got five minutes.

   District Five Chairman

   2:52:25You have Massa's turn?

   2:52:29Oh yes, you are correct.

   Keith Swope

   2:52:30But Hi, my name is Keith Swope, I live at [address removed]. I've been squared. Um kind of out of order, but I originally bought in Sally Brook in 1980. I built my house in '85. We bought, we were told there was 18 holes there, but the resort was gonna buy it. I was worried about the traffic at that time. I was told don't worry about it because we own half the way to the middle of the street. They would not be using our road. They had their own access so they were using. And as

   2:53:00a resort opened that was went from the construction gate, we were making up. Didn't happen. We never got to use it. They never used it. Uh What One of the important things about Samarbrook is it was a peaceful, quiet lifestyle. As soon as you turn off the highway, see for yourself the mad traffic on Highway 54. It looks it it looks like that's gonna be changed now and that it's not gonna be for the better. Uh

   2:53:31I call it too myself off, sorry. You've been shown the traffic problems at the front gate. Everything has been shown that happens. The resort is empty. But I've been there when it was always packed. I've been there when you could not pull into Sally Brooke. I've been there whenever an event was going on and it was a couple of blocks backed up, down 54, because you couldn't get in. You could not turn in there. Matter of fact, we didn't have a light right there, but a lot of times, but you couldn't you couldn't pull in or out.

   2:54:01I don't think anybody's aware of because it's not been talked about in any of these meetings I've been talked about. When a resort is active. And they have an event. We don't have barking. The resort has no parking at all. And what they have to do is The parking lots they have to put back from over in front of my house. to the other parking lines, which you're gonna lose with that vision road now. So they're not gonna have any parking at all for the when they run the resort. Uh

   2:54:32And the the Vision Road in in apartments

   2:54:39I'm doing myself very often, I'm sorry. The Vision Road, as I understand or just heard, is going to be on Saddleback property. That is the main road they want to do to Highway 52. They're planning on having a Four lane road there for that? That's going to be the new Bruce B. Downs. Brisbane Dallas is what Five, six lanes now? They're g have you seen the intersection at Howie fifty six and Bruce B. Downs, you've got eight lanes

   2:55:09there? You think you have enough property for that vision road on on those eight lanes? What are you going to do? Knock the apartments down to put the vision road in? Because you're not they're not going to be able to put on there. So there's not you can't jam pack it in there like they're talking about doing. You're talking about putting all those apartments. They're talking about putting quality apartments. Have you seen the apartments going on Bruce Downs? They're four-story, they're sticking stucco. They're not going to be able to do that. Plywood in the outside. I've been by there. I'm in

   2:55:39roofing business. I know wood that goes rotted. None of it's been covered, it's been rain every day. That's gonna rot out before it gets built. There's nothing quality about that if that's what they're building. If they're going to build quality, build two, three stories. Build block. Build it put a tower roof on it, build it nice.

   2:56:00I'm sorry but I throw myself off and got got upset and nervous about this, I don't do this very often. But I've been there for forty years. And in the forty years I've been there I I've seen a lot of things happen. And um We always had a fight with Mr. Dempsey, quite honestly. We had um Mr. Dempsey was there. They were going to build a access road for us. Never built it. You know, we had we got stuck with that. We wanted to put a speed

   2:56:31bump because all the drunks were coming from Saddlebok and we wanted to put a speed bump in. We tried to get them in. County stopped us, said we can't put a speed bump in. uh we wanted to put a light in for four or five years. We want to put a light in. Mr. Dempsey would not let us put a rot light in. because he fought with the county and the county stuff up for him. The only way we got a light in was to give Mr. Dempsey like one and a quarter million dollars. to re rebuild the front entrance way and then he rolled

   2:57:01over and said, Okay, you can have a light. We have not been able to get anything in people passed ever. Everything's always for the big money. Now it's with a big money again. We're just asking for a little help. Thank you. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   2:57:16Okay, the next individual is Patrick Hogan.

   Patrick Hogan

   2:57:33Thank you. Uh Pat Hogan, [address removed], and I've been sworn in. I'm on the Board of Directors of the Fairway Association. I'm also a member of the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition. Today I'm speaking to you as an owner in Saddlebrook as well. When you go to the Saddlebrook website, you're invited to Dream and Play at Saddlebrook Resort. on one of our two honor Palmer signature signature courses. The Palmer name is worth mentioning as it carries weight in the minds of golfers.

   2:58:03There's an expectation of quality. Arnold is considered the king of golf. He had a hand in designing the courses. They're part of the legacy of Saddlebrick. With the plans that are before you today, the Palmer name will disappear from any future Any future Saddlebook marketing. So will two uh eighteen whole golf courses at Saddleburg. Under the Mass Plan there will be three nines or three half courses as any golfer will tell you because playing nine is only playing

   2:58:33half around. I'm speaking to you today to introduce an idea That could perhaps uh save the eighteen whole courses at Silabra. The current plan for the The apartment is to build a an apartment complex over the driving range, you've all heard that already. Consequently the driving rate's gonna be relocated, so we've all been through that. However, if you look at this another way, the way the way everybody went at it so far was uh, okay, we want to use the driving

   2:59:04range. Where are we going to put the driving range? We look around Saddlebrook, there's no spot for it. Let's take some holes out and let's put a driving range in there. Instead of doing that, let's go the other way. Where are we going to put the apartments? Maybe leave the driving range where it is. And that's what I put up on the map here right now. Now I'm not I don't have I had a graphic artist work with me who happens to work for us and we put this together quickly yesterday. So instead of the the apartment buildings facing the the fifty-four, the apparent buildings

   2:59:34are facing the the division road that are gonna happen there. What we did is we tried to be as close as we could. I can't say that the everything is exactly the scale there. But as you can see, the apartment buildings will fit in there. If you change the use of the apartment buildings to uh mid rise multi use You can see what happens. Now The uh the plans um The sketch shows the apartment buildings are located on the current footprint of the maintenance buildings. So

   3:00:04we haven't ripped down any trees, we haven't affected the wetlands. We haven't done anything like that. So I'm just suggesting that there is another plan here that hasn't been considered yet. And with this plan, you can see that the driving range stays stays there, 18 holes of gall stay there. There's many, many benefits here, and I can have a small list of 16 here that I came up with. One is that there's less impact and more compatibility with the existing neighborhood of Saddlebrook. The

   3:00:34sense of arrival at Saddleburg stays the same. The golf experience stays the same. There's two eighteen whole Palmer courses there. Tournaments can be still hosted at Saddlebrook. You go down to three nines, 27 holes. It's difficult to have a tournament and also have members and a golf academy have access to tease. Potential goal revenue stays the same. He's still working with two eighteen whole courses. The development of the of the apartment complex is

   3:01:05no longer tied to the construction. Of two driving of the of uh relocating the driving range and renovating the holes. Now getting into the MPUD there a little bit, but that's still part of the impact of it. That's number seven. Number eight. Uh construction on the new compartment complex can can start immediately. You don't have to wait for to renovate the course or anything. Gol number nine, golf renovations can be timed to maximize their impact on the golf experience. So take certain holes out of out of

   3:01:35play and the s in the slow season, renovate them and put them back in so that we have a full complement for the high season. The overall project time for for all the construction can be compressed. Number twelve, the P apartments can be built with even more floors without d detracting from the unnatural beauty of Saddlebrook because If you look at that. And uh Miss Wilhite mentioned that thou I think it was twenty-two acres of green space there between there and the and the residence of uh Saddlebrook. That stays intact. That's all there.

   3:02:06So we're actually moving it more into an area that's even further buffered. Um Wetlands on the southeast corner of the resort will not have to be torn up and relocated to relocate the driving range. Traffic from the apartment complex is concentrated only on the Vision Road. Right now with the current plans there is an access from the apartment buildings to the what we call the WIA entrance into Saddlebrook. You can see that? Hang on a minute. I

   3:02:36don't I don't even know how to run this. Oh there we go.

   3:02:44Whoa. Uh oh. I may maybe I shouldn't I I don't I should have practiced a bit.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:02:50There you go. Dega.

   Patrick Hogan

   3:02:53At any rate.

   3:02:56There we are. If you look in the top right hand corner, you can see where the townhouses stay there. You can see there's a note for townhouses in the platted uh with 25 dwelling units. There is an entrance there per in the in the the proposal there's an entrance there and that's what causes the traffic issues because a lot of traffic that's gonna go east are gonna go out that entrance and that'll stop the entrance and Even yesterday when I was uh driving around the course, uh in a certainly the low season, there was eight

   3:03:26cars waiting for the light there as it is right now.

   3:03:31Uh the plan It the plan also adds a service entrance down where the red line is. You can see there's also a service entrance that's in the mass that mass plan. That's a service uh for service vehicles to keep it out of um out of the normal traffic coming in there. And lastly, the membership could be offered to the apartment residents so they could enjoy uh Saddleburg as well. So there's many other benefits I'm sure. That's just uh sixteen that I happen to come up with with the help of my wife. I offer the plan this

   3:04:01plan as an as an alternative to the current plan. Changes to a plan often come at an inopportune time, which this is. Here we are at the adoption hearing. and you got some somebody that can't comes up with and a light bulb went out, you know. So I worked with uh with Commissioner uh Mariano with the f on this plan. And um and it it seems like you know it's a final hour, but it here's the plan. Here's an alternative. Saddlebrook deserves a plan that preserves the legacy of the golf course. The legacy of the golf course of

   3:04:31excuse me, of Saddle the Saddlework Resort is with two Arnold Palmer courses. In my opinion, it's a win win win for all involved. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:04:41And

   3:04:41Pat, um

   3:04:42just for the record, I did meet with Pat uh over the phone. Um actually met him in person, met with Larry, met with Jane, other coalition members as well. So I've I had constant communication whenever I got ideas. This idea come up after actually I left Sunday. from the uh resort and kind of drove out the service run I go, you know? Let me go take a look at this. So I kind of drove it down, took a video of it, and said, you know what? Let's take a shot. Let's take a look. I I salute you to reach out to your friends to draw this thing up and and come

   3:05:12up with it the way you did. So great work. Thank you. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:05:16Alright, the next individual signed up is Larry Barbetta.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:05:20Uh Larry's gonna wait. Larry is going to

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:05:22wait.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:05:23Yeah, he's gonna go last.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:05:24Okay, then um Andrew Pines.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:05:36Six minutes.

   Seth Weightman

   3:05:39It's a heck of a picture you brought today.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:05:47I'll I'll teach Commissioner Bradford not showing up.

   3:05:52You're in the spotlight, Commissioner Bradford.

   Seth Weightman

   3:05:54You say that was a great picture they brought today.

   Andrew Pines

   3:05:59Hi, thank you thank you for this opportunity to speak. My name is Andrew Pines. I live at [address removed]. Um I am have been sworn in. Uh I am a resident at Saddlebrook. I'm a condo owner. Um I'm on the HOA board for the SPOA. I'm an active member uh with the Safe Saddlebook Coalition and I've been involved with the negotiations with Mass Capital. Um As we talked

   3:06:29about There's a huge development already happening in Wesley Chapel. 24 multifamily complexes, 7,000 units in and around the area, eight of them within just a one or two minute drive already from Saddlebrook. 2,300 units already planned, haven't even been occupied yet. Uh This is what you're asking about as far as internal traffic problems. Today we have congestion in there. What

   3:06:59the proposal today is asking to do is little literally double the number of residents at Saddlebrook. We want over five hundred units. There are not even five hundred homes in Saddlebrook today. So they want to double the overall density, but five hundred in that small space, while I commend them and while they've shown incredible beautiful renderings. My biggest concern is that everyone in Wesley Chapel's gonna wanna come eat here, shop here, hang out here. imagine the resort flourishing,

   3:07:29which is the intention of all this, is to save Saddlebrook, bring the resort back up to uh its heyday. That place gets busy. As Keith pointed out, there's no parking. Uh the resort's flourishing, everyone's shopping, and you have five hundred new residential units all in here. Adding another lane is not gonna solve this problem. It's actually going to make the exponential problem, which also goes not just to traffic issues but safety issues as you heard from as you saw as they pointed out from the sheriff,

   3:08:00emergency services. A a a huge nightmare could literally happen. The worst case scenario when people are trying to get in out of the resort, in and out of shopping and restaurants, and ho you know, another five hundred homeowners, forget about us who already live there. We can't be we wouldn't even be able to evacuate sh should we needed to. Uh the the new vision road. really is just there to solve the problem that they're creating. But the truth is they said it's mostly for service vehicles. So yeah, it might help

   3:08:30a little bit, but w the problem we're talking about here is way beyond what the service road will be able to solve for. Um

   3:08:40Commissioner Mariano pointed out that they really haven't solved for the flow of the traffic coming in and out of there. Major rigs would still have to try to U-turn on the fifty-four. Uh they really haven't proven how the traffic issue is really gonna be solved when you're forced to turn right onto the 54 uh coming out of there. You know, we see this all the time already internally, again to the point of this is our life now. I mean it and construction hasn't even begun yet. And they are also

   3:09:10their route for all this additional is gonna be right next to the Cool. I mean all the poor students that are there are gonna be seeing big rigs flying through here every day. l literally on the road, you know, feet from where they go to school every day and where they're expected to walk to school. But those of us who walk our dogs, ride our bikes around the Saddlebrook Loop, I mean that w this is what we're gonna be living with, this is what we're dealing with, just to you know, support another you know, the huge development in Area

   3:09:41One that they want. Um I don't need to rehash any of this. This is pictures of existing traffic. I had a video that shows how much traffic there is today. Um, you know, at the end of the day it just it doesn't work. They haven't proven that there's not going to be a major impact on the safety, the traffic flow, existing residents, our investment as homeowners and people who live there and

   3:10:11Right. already make this our home. it it just doesn't work. And please, as as just shown to you, there are other proposals, there are other opportunities. We can certainly look at density issues, we can look at solving some of these problems. It just we need a little bit more time to get there. Uh I'm gonna stop here. Thank you for your time. Look forward to speaking on the the M P U D whole separate issue around the condos as well too. So I'll wait for that. I'll save the time.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:10:43Okay then I'm gonna call the next two individuals signed up. Um first is Nancy Foster, then Barbara Thurberg.

   Barry Shine

   3:11:02Yeah.

   Unidentified speakerVoice F

   3:11:06Nancy Foster, [address removed]. I'm the first house when you come in. I've talked to you about that. So I will be very affected by what is going on. And I believe I showed you that before that my house is right over here. And then the gate's going to be moved closer to my house here. I notice that the ponds are here and they're putting in a swimming pool and a clubhouse here. So then I have this kind of

   3:11:36noise level coming through. So that is a concern to me because I didn't move there in order to have this happening. So what I have here, the benefits of living next door to the golf range now, serene entrance. I know they're putting a buffer in. I do not know if that buffer is going to be sufficient to have that, you know, feeling when you come into Saddlebrook of calmness. Uh traffic flow going by my house. Everybody

   3:12:06has to go by my house to come in, and that has increased immensely. Can only hear the ping of the golf ball club. Now I'm not going to hear that. I'm going to be hearing probably noises. Um restaurant thing noises coming in, traffic flowing in the parking lots and things like this. This will be my hearing, I guess. Uh I've been listening to the sounds of nature, uh limited uh lit area at night which is so uh peaceful and now I know there'll

   3:12:36be more light in that area which will probably overflow in our where I am. It's extremely quiet in the evening. Yeah. Okay. Uh what will change? Busy entrance, of course. Andrew just t uh told you about that. Increase in traffic noise, including delivery trucks and additional residents and visitors. I had a delivery truck, I have a bird, by the way, at home. And I had a delivery truck come and we were cleaning

   3:13:07the cage and it made such a noise that he flew into the woods. Considering he's freed, I was lucky to find him. But we do have loud noises coming on the trucks. I you can hear the sounds of nature outside when this happens as much. Commercial parking lot and building lights where it was dark at night. Establishments open late hours attracting possible crimes and maybe you know drunk driving if they're open late on the streets where people want to walk for an evening walk.

   3:13:38Also I kinda wonder with all these apartments coming in and houses and we hear about, you know, how Pasco's going to grow. These people wanna play golf too. D will they wanna come to uh Saddlebrook? if we don't have we only have twenty seven homes. Is that going to make them want to come? I mean I'm sure uh the adults coming in would like to have their inter entertainment and they go to an Arnold Palmer golf course and hear it's not what they expected. Are they going to enjoy this resort? I would

   3:14:08love to see the re resort uh flourish to uh maybe it's upgrading and maybe add some things, let's attract more people who are moving in into Pasco County to want to be here and enjoy what we enjoy living here. Thank you very much.

   David Engel

   3:14:27Thank you.

   Unidentified speakerVoice V

   3:14:37Good afternoon. I am Barbara Thunberg. My husband Alan and I have been living at [address removed], since July of 2002. We have been following the discussions and negotiations between Mass, the Saddleburgh community, and Pascoal County with interest. Negotiations have progressed with good outcome, including the deed restriction. The relocation of the golf academy. and the need to address traffic issues

   3:15:08that development will cause at the entry to Saddlebrook excuse me in the community. The agreement to transform Vision VII into a real road will be key to the success of the development. We note that the resort is considerably busier than it has been in the past several years, and that some cosmetic improvements have been made, and really this should please most of us. The continuing concerns of the Saddlebrook residential community is the impact of area

   3:15:38one. particularly the planned density. In the proposed plan. A number of suggestions have been offered. One. Um Maybe the number of apartment units could be reduced. Maybe 300. This would decrease the amount of required asphalt parking For the residents. Two? If four hundred and sixty apartments are absolutely necessary Perhaps the it could be redesigned to

   3:16:09provide four five story buildings. with planned parking on the first level of at least some of the buildings. This would allow, this would reduce the acreage needed for asphalt parking and allow for more green public area.

   3:16:27It's hard to understand why it is desirable to transform So much of Wesley Chapel into an urban complex dominated by so many, and I do mean many, apartment complexes. If Saddleburgh residents wanted to live in a densely populated area. I think that most would have chosen to live in Miami, Orlando. Or downtown Tampa. Yes, masked owns cell of resort, including area

   3:16:57one, and they will proceed with whatever they are allowed to do. We ask that the Planning Commission assess the project carefully. Can a compromise in density be pursued? Given that concern, we recommend that the Board votes to approve this application. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:17:21Okay, the next individual signed up. I'm gonna call the next two is Robert Real and Lily Zoo.

   Unidentified speakerVoice Q

   3:17:39Good afternoon. My name is Greg Reely, not Robert Reely. I think he's gonna speak after me, but I'm on the list. I live at uh [address removed]. Um I have been sworn and I have uh lived at Saddlebrook since January of 1987. I actually started coming here in 1981 when I was still a student. So I've seen it for all these years. As well as being a resident for all those years, I've also uh I'm a member of the Dempsey family, Tom Dempsey family, and

   3:18:09I have uh worked at Saddlebrook for over 30 years in variety of capacities, executive vice president. President, general manager of the resort, president of Saddleburg Sports, including the school and general counsel. So I've seen things come and go over the years, and I know the history of Saddleburg, and I know the business model of Saddlebrook probably better than anybody at this point. What I I've already written to you and expressed and spoken before about my um the my f my support of mass development

   3:18:39plans. as well as uh provided you letter from Mr. Dempsey uh the same ti with the same uh meaning. Um I'm not going to reiterate all of that, but I did want to say a couple of things about it. Uh we still own, uh the family still owns uh eight properties within Saddlebrook, including a lot right at the on the entrance road at uh the intersection of uh of uh Fox Hun Drive, that's where the T intersection is as you come into Saddlebrook. We own that so we're basically next door to Nancy Foster here. Um we

   3:19:10also own two acres right across the exit from Saddlebrook. So if I felt that m what mass development plans were going to do would be uh deleterious to our family interest in those properties, I certainly would be saying so. Well not nothing is perfect Um, I can tell you I was involved in every aspect of the sale of Saddlebrook. Uh, I sometimes say selling a destination resort uh during a pandemic is not for the faint of heart. Um, it was quite a difficult thing to get through, but I knew what every every buyer wanted to do. And one of the reasons we selected Mast

   3:19:40was they were going to try to maintain the legacy of uh of Mr. Dempsey and Saddlebrook, and I think their plans to do that very well. Well, um when I look at the question of uh density up in Area One, I see it uh slightly different than I suppose most everybody else does. I see that uh Area One now as a buffer uh between the hustle and bustle of State Road fifty four and the resort. It's really outside of the resort, uh according to the way their plans will be done. And I will add too

   3:20:11about some of the comments about The driving range, that was driving range location there on 54 was never the long-term intent of the legacy owner of Salbrook. We always intended to buy land to the South. We were unfortunate to do that. And insofar as the 36 holes issue has been concerned, which Mr. Hogan and others have spoken about, um, 36 holes is simply not viable at Saddleback. It hasn't been viable. It was one of trying to maintain 36 holes was one of the things that made uh a lot of financial stress upon it. It's

   3:20:41just too expensive to run a golf course, couldn't maintain the rate, couldn't maintain uh the the uh the a number of rounds that you needed to make it successful. And uh I would also venture to say that with respect to traffic inside uh uh uh Sethrook, as you mentioned, uh Commissioner Starkey, those golf carts are a real problem driving around Sadarick. I live in the very far back of Laurelwood, um subdivision, the very far back of Fairway Village, and I constantly am stuck behind golf carts trying to get when I try to

   3:21:11go in and out. So it is a important to get those golf courts off golf cart off the roads as much as possible. Um Insofar as density again is concerned up in Area One, what I said to you before, and what I reiterate again today, is the most important thing from my perspective is that MAST is successful with its development plans. I want to see that village center built out there at Area One. I think that is going to be crucial to the value of the properties we own as well as everybody else's.

   3:21:41And I think that density is necessary. in order to to accomplish that particular objective. Um I would also differ with some things my my friends here have said regarding um the traffic light. That was something Mr. Dempsey fought very, very hard for and I just want to say on the record that went to the state with we and I was involved with it. We did quite a quite a lot of work to try to get that traffic light put in there twenty years ago. The traffic was far, far worse back at that time. Yeah, let me see if I've forgotten anything else to say.

   3:22:14Yeah, I and I I guess the last thing I would just say is that I feel like whether there's three hundred and sixty-five units in area one uh or there's four hundred sixty five units in area one, frankly from my perspective it's it's immaterial. Um it's it's be I it'd be nicer to have three sixty five or some other lower number, but from my perspective it's more important they the the need for the financial success of Mass to do this development is more important than another fifty or a hundred units out there. I think it's in the

   3:22:44in the scheme of things it's r just not a big enough consideration. Uh thank you very much. Thank

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:22:50you. Thanks, Greg.

   Robert Dempsey Really

   3:23:04Um I've been Sworn. Uh I live at [address removed], and my name is Robert Dempsey really. Uh the Dempsey part is actually a little bit important because I'm the grandson of Tom Dempsey, the you know founder, creator, and former owner of Saddlebrook. Um I don't think there's anyone that has done more to uh to build Saddlebrook to see its success or sacrifice than our family has. Obviously we've owned it for Over forty years our entire family owned it as a family business. Um I've worked there uh since I can remember about

   3:23:34um I started at about sixteen years old. I attended the the Golf Academy. Um everything that my family's ever done, every every meal we've ever eaten has been a business meal, um, talking about what's going on at Saliburg. So it's been a big part of my life forever and I I'd like to reiterate I don't think there's Anyone that cares more about Saddlebrook than myself, which is why I have not spoken to any of these meetings, even though I've attended all of them, because I was trying to see how things were gonna play out. But I think this is the right time for me to say something because I

   3:24:05have seen mass plans. I think that what they're doing is crucial and essential for the success of Saddleburg, which is all I want to see. Everyone in my family, except for two of us, have left Saddlebrook. I'm one of the only two that are left. Um the only reason that I stayed is because I want to see the legacy continue. I want to see it grow and prosper. And I think that uh the growing Saddlebrook with this development plan is the only way to do that. Um I went to the golf academy, I played golf, I'm okay. I

   3:24:35I I was like everyone else here hesitant to go down just one twenty-seven holes. But if it means That the 27 holes that we're left with are better conditioned. They are a prime golf course with the same, you don't lose the training facility because it's shifted. I know from our business, as my father just stated, that running two golf courses is very expensive. So when people come up here and say, Well, having 36 holes is more profitable. No, it's not. Isn't and

   3:25:05I don't understand how you could say something like that if you did not actually know that. You know, we've worked in it our entire lives. That will save you money by only having to do 20 maintain 27 holes. And one of the other things that I noticed on the on the other proposal that was shown by Mr. Hogan is that actually is the academy and the employee parking. Which you know Mr. Swill pointed out, there is not enough parking, so you're gonna have to get rid of the academy

   3:25:35and the parking if you wanted to do that. Um so again, I don't think that that proposal actually works. Um and again, if if I thought that this plan was not in SALIWIC's interest, I would be the loudest voice against it, but all I want to do is see SALILWRIC succeed and This is how Celibrix succeeds. Thank you.

   District Five Chairman

   3:25:56Okay, miss you.

   3:26:00She she asked a waiver comments. Okay, so then the last individual signed up is Larry Barbetta.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:26:09So is there anyone else going to speak to this item? Watch watch the ladies come on up.

   Pimata Rosecott

   3:26:22Hello and thank you for having me. My name is Pimata Rosecott. I live at [address removed], and I was born in with everybody here. Um I wanna talk

   Unidentified speakerVoice W

   3:26:33basically about my experience with Saddlebrook. I'm gonna be celebrating my Vincentnial um anniversary of being a resident of Wesley Chapel, so that's 20 years. I have also been a business owner for about 10 years um in Saddlebrook. So I raised my daughter, I have grandkids coming around, and one of the things that we always remember is going to Saddlebrook for Mother's Day and different things and my kids like going to the pool and

   3:27:03so it's always been part of our like traditions and everybody here talks about traditions and how long we've been here. But we want to keep it here. And one of the ways that we best keep it here is with change. One of the changes that they did was to bring me in. I am now the spa director at Sado Brook and one of the things that we worked really hard, Mass and I, is to keep the tradition of the spa itself while refreshing it and bringing it back to life. And I think that's basically what the

   3:27:33whole project is. is maintaining it but bringing it back to life. Being able to give it the best possibility for success without having to change too much on it. But the change is inevitable. Wesley Chapel has changed. I've come from a time where Wesley Chapel was cows and manure to like three malls. So it's not that change is bad. Change has to happen. for us to grow and for there to be vitality in our community. We've had

   3:28:03different um golf courses that have gone under because they didn't want to change. We had Quail Hollow, went under. We had um Pebble Creek went under. If we don't want to go under, if we want to maintain our community, we have to change. We have to embrace it and we have to work together. I work with Mass now. It's gonna be going on a year. It was six months of courting and six months of working together. And I will say that they are very receptive to opinions when you

   3:28:33have them as long as they make sense. Um there were things that we battled back and forth and then we would sit and it's like this is how it makes sense and this is how it's going to be best for the overall group. And it happens. And I think that um saying that, oh, it's because it's always been that way is the one way that something is gonna fail. We have to say what it's been and how we're gonna change it to maintain it. And that's it. Thank you very much for listening to us.

   Unidentified speakerVoice X

   3:29:09Good afternoon. I am Hope Kennedy. I am the president and CEO of the North Tampa Bay Chamber. We do have a new address for the record. It is 28-210 Paseo Drive, suite number 190 in Wesley Chapel. 33543. I am here today on behalf of our board of directors and our 610 members advocating in support of this project. This is the type of project that communities around this country are dying for.

   3:29:40They would be thrilled to have this kind of investment coming into their community. Saddlebrook literally put Wesley Chapel on the national and international map. And they have been a contributing force in tourism and commerce. as with any asset, it must be nurtured and constantly improved upon. for us to continue to prosper as a region, We must evolve. We the Chamber applaud Mass Capital

   3:30:10for their vision to improve the crown jewel of Wesley Chapel. They have gone above and beyond. To ensure the legacy of Saddlebrook continues. We thank them for investing in our community. and ask you to approve this project and remove any bias or bureaucracy from further delaying the vital improvements needed. Thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:30:38Is there anyone else? Okay, Larry you'll be the last one for public comment. Unless there's anyone who will WebEx.

   District Five Chairman

   3:30:44Uh there's did he ever show up? No, there was no one on WebEx.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:30:48Okay.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   3:30:59Hello everyone. My name is Lawrence Barbetta, Larry. I live at [address removed], been there a little over a decade. So thank you all for your time today. We're gonna go, since we've got a lot of stuff to talk about, we're not gonna waste our time. Right now in commenting on the overall land use there's a few things that I wanna bring up. Um probably the biggest thing that is new information that we were really excited to hear about is the

   3:31:29greater access into area two that was just shared today. I think that opens up some interesting opportunities for us to consider how to have a win-win where we get The density but possibly measure it or manage it in an appropriate way. Currently area one has about thirty five acres Roughly thirty-two buildable and there's seventy-five thousand square feet of commercial. There's um now there's just under five hundred. There's

   3:31:59four hundred and ninety uh apartments in townhomes. Plus there's parking and I believe the rule is something like two point two or something I um spots per unit is my understanding. I could be wrong. But in other words, more than 900 parking spots in the current configuration. Again, we're concerned about what that does for the gateway into a four to five star resort. We're concerned about the impact on the community, and we're concerned obviously about the loss of green space. And again, I don't

   3:32:29want to come across inappropriately, but If we were building a four to five star resort from scratch, Would we conceive that the way we'll enter it is through an apartment and retail complex? Okay. I mean and when we look at the comps cited by mask and who they compete with, that's not the same experience. So that would be something I I believe in progress. We are thankful for the time we've had to work with mask. We're thankful for the collaboration. We mean that sincerely and we're

   3:33:00thankful to the commissioners for giving us that opportunity. We're at, you know, the 11th hour. Later we'll talk about the MPUD and rezoning. But at a high level, there are some bigger issues here and there might be some interesting opportunities where we make this still beneficial for MAST. but also more sensitive and compatible with the Saddlebrook Resort. And make sense for the community as well. We also would encourage things, and we'll talk about this more in the rezoning, about accelerating the pace. of the

   3:33:30renovation of the resort. Because that's what this is about. We didn't buy Nobody bought empty land. They bought the Saddlebrook Resort. which has worked hard to establish a world renowned reputation. We all know its current state. We're all saddened by its current state. We all support Mass's efforts to bring that back. to what it should be. We want to help accelerate that. And we think plans and conditions later that we'll talk about that accelerate that and align that would be in

   3:34:00the best interest of everyone as well. Um I'm gonna be very short right now. If you have questions for me, Feel free, but I want you to consider that as you look at the broader land use and I look forward to speaking with you later about the MPUD.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:19Any questions?

   3:34:21Okay.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:34:22Well I would

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:23just

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:34:24I guess I do have to

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:25Commissioner Starkey go ahead.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:34:26Slide. You know, when you guys are proposing I guess w the thought is you would put apartments along the road And leave the Um

   3:34:42Practice.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:34:44Driving range.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:34:45The driving range up front, away from the clubhouse.

   3:34:51that doesn't that mean you're taking away all the parking and so then you would just kill the ability for them to have a fence there like when we had the governor there? So I I I just think that idea just sinks Saddlebrook into Melissa. When you can't act have events like they can happen.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   3:35:15Are you addressing that toward me, Commissioner? I'm just curious.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:35:18In general.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   3:35:19Okay. Um I'm not sure I'm the best to answer it, but what I would say is what I think Mr. Hogan presented as a resident. was just the idea that there may be some other possibilities and that this is a very big decision. We're not trying to act like amateur land planners, okay? And I think Pat was speaking to that. Pat can speak. How long is the drive from the To the driving range, Pat?

   3:35:42Roughly two minutes and fifty seconds. So when you look at the other course, which I think Pat will talk about in the layout, there's going to be other driving challenges as well. Um what we're trying to say.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:35:53I think Pat knows the answer too. What was it what was the driving distance from the new to the new driving range? Is it like a minute ninety?

   David Engel

   3:36:00Maybe it's over a

   District Five Chairman

   3:36:02minute.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:36:07Oh you can't answer from there, sorry.

   Lawrence Barbetta

   3:36:09He said He said over a minute depend from

   3:36:15Correct. There's other places again with the routing that Pat will discuss, I believe, and the distances between holes, and that is a significant change and adds time too. Again, what we're just really trying to say, I think what Pat was trying to convey is that if there's an opportunity where we could have less intrusion. In terms of the impact on our community. existing compatibility, nice entry, and end up with thirty six quality holes, that

   3:36:45would be even better than twenty seven. That's that's what the idea was with that communication. And that's again a y a broader statement. Okay.

   3:36:57Thank you all very much.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:36:58Talk to you soon. Sheena? Do you have my picture?

   3:37:09So one of the groups of people I met with were at one time playing out there was uh from Coral Springs and Um they've been coming to Saddlebrook 16 of the past 24 years. And they tried a couple of the courses but they always kept coming to Saddlebrook and they loved it. Uh they played the Palmercos and then they played it again because they liked it so much. When the new design we've been trying to get um It finally got released to Amy. Amy Amy Amy, you just got it the other day or how long have you had this?

   Amy Heiler

   3:37:40Amy Haler Planning and Development. Um so our team reviews pre applications every Monday. So we were aware of it on Monday. So it was scheduled. I I don't know when it was scheduled, but it's for next Tuesday. And since our team was able to review the pre applications, um we noticed it and figured we'd go ahead and send it out.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:38:03Okay. So Again, we've been waiting for a plan for a long time. We knew they submitted or presented a plan to Um the others but never been a presentation. I'm wondering if Mass wants to talk about this plan. Barbara you got a chance to come up and talk? You want to talk to the plant or have someone talk to the plant? The new running of the golf course?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:38:42Burber Will Height for the applicant. So a couple things. March 31st, around the end of March, there was a town hall meeting with the members of Saddlebrook Resort. this was what's shown to them. So this isn't last minute. At the Planning Commission, this Hilard probably forgets, but the Planning Commission agenda item included this. So again, it's not new. It's been around since March 31st. So But I do not intend on discussing it because

   3:39:12it has nothing to do with my land use amendment. The County Attorney stated at the Planning Commission that our golf design has nothing to do with our land use amendment or our rezoning. It's not relevant. So I spoke to him last night just to make sure because I would never say anything that your county attorney has said to you. If I'm not sure that's what he said at the public hearing. So

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:39:32Let me stop there for Let's Let me stop there for a second. So So let me let me ask the county attorney a question. So back in nineteen seventy four, nineteen eighty five, this plan gets adopted as an MPUD. The people see what they're gonna get plugg for a plan for a golf course. Even if it's changed later on another part of an MPUD. With what the people saw and what the people had rights to, they have do they have certain expectations to expect they're gonna see a thirty-six hole golf course? Did that do they have rights? Or

   3:40:03is it just one one?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:05Most decisions on golf course conversions have not gone in the homeowners' favor unless there were specific covenants and conditions that were granted to them in their approvals. And that would be a civil matter between the homeowners and the golf course. Yeah.

   District Five Chairman

   3:40:31Sure.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:33Okay.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:37So may I do rebuttal?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:41This would be your I'm gonna ask about the golf course so you can either have them talk about it or I'll just I'll just talk about it. However you want to do it.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:49Yes, I see that you're testifying here, Commissioner.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:40:51What's that?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:40:52I see that you're testifying here. So I guess that'll continue, but yes, I'm d wanna note it for the record. Um very unusual. So I don't know Uh what order you want? Normally after the public speaks, then staff has a chance and Mr. Karbala has said that he wants to make sure that we follow proper order. So I know there's been a lot of compla consistency conversations, so I don't know if Mr. Pitos de Penz d is going to talk to that. But I would like to keep it in some kind of order here. I'm not in charge.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:41:20But I do have a certain right-of-way.

   3:41:23Okay,

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:41:24thank you.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:41:24Sorry to take you out of order.

   Amy Heiler

   3:41:34Terry Pitos is gonna come up and respond.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:41:53Good afternoon, Commissioner Oakley Os Pitos, Planning and Development Department. Um there has been uh

   3:42:02a number of presentations over the past couple of months with regard to the consistency analysis and I've commented on the consistency I think at the transmitter hearing um s with regard to some of the the flus and the objectives that were um highlighted previously so I'll just echo those uh and not repeat them here. Um but there were a couple of new things that did come up come up About in the course of the planning of the project here, which is uh fairly common and and typical for

   3:42:32new things to come about as we try to work through various problems. So the first item that I wanted to quickly talk about was the signal that was at Band Dying State Way 54 with regard to area two. So um it was noted previously in testimony that um there was That staff had said that the density could not be shifted because there wasn't a signal there. Um actually the intersection was not studied at the Complan level. That's typically not something that we're looking

   3:43:02at in terms of that sort of detail. Uh, because um, well, we don't go into that detail, but staff had noted that one could put density at area two, but we would need to pay close. attention to how access would take place on State Road 54. During the course of the deliberations and the negotiations on the conditions of approval for the MQD, which is the next item, there are aims we did look at because we do craft conditions of approval that

   3:43:32attempt to address uh turning movements and access movements uh To the subject properties that are before the board for zoning considerations. And uh we looked at the van Dyne and how we could potentially uh require the self-leg to that intersection. And so that was part of the weekend work that took place where we a an exhibit was provided to us, we assessed what But do

   3:44:03the geometries of the exhibit uh generally work and could the site plan accommodate the land uses that they were proposing? And it looked like it could, and the condition was cracked and was thereby included in the revisions that are part of the MPUD record now. But uh we still maintain that the greater density should locate at Stable 54 and Bruce. Down at the future Bruce B. Downs intersection, that's the better location because there are multiple ingress and egress options

   3:44:33for that area. So the whatever traffic may occur within that little mudderum node is going to be better dispersed on 54, on Bruce, and on Bruce B. Downs ultimately to wire grass and beyond Boulevard. In terms of the commentary from the public safety agencies. Um

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:44:54stand up just for a second. So I met with you and staff on Friday. We looked at a lot of different items. That was one of them that came up. Over the week I actually got to hit the Planning Commission with actually brought up the same items that Didn't seem to take any work. So I appreciate your work on Friday. going through to get that approved to make that light intersection. Because it would have made no sense to have the intersection or the entryway any further to the west because that would have made people just going out there, crossing three lanes, taking a U turn. And with that lineup the way it was, I'm glad to

   3:45:24see these guys acted on that to get that to happen. And I appreciate the applicant actually looking at that and making that happen. Well that's a good thing. as as that came out. So that's an improvement. When you talk about the traffic now let's go let's go talk about you just said the access in and out. When you have a development of over 600 units, you have to put in a second Entryway, correct? That's correct. Now I don't know if you consider that second part of the thing as traffic that you need because nobody can get

   3:45:54there. I mean as as Staff says it's an isolated project on Area Two. It's not connected whatsoever. So it needs a standard on its own. But on the four hundred and sixty five area where the entryway is, is the connection where people are gonna be able to go up the vision road, taking a right turn in, right turn out?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:46:15Uh the the connection is yeah, the connection would be to the west, which would be onto the future of Bruce B. Downs. From there, um somebody could travel north to fifty four and do the right-right out until that becomes a full full proper intersection with signal etcetera. Or they could turn south and head out to eventually Wiregrass uh Boulevard and then make their north and south movements on that road.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:46:39Now currently though, the way the plan is set, can people from the apartment complex go to the right and go the entrance in Saddlebrook Way and go to that light and go out?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:46:49uh I think I'm gonna that's what the conceptuals are showing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:46:53The way it's designed. Okay.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:46:55Yeah, th there's the uh

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:46:58Okay, so so all those people are either gonna make a decision. Is this get started? They're either gonna go out on Saddlebrook way where the light is? where they can have the dual left turn lanes to go right or left and get out. Those that want to go the other way are gonna go out the other side. And either Battle battle light crossing through lanes or to to get out there. So mostly people that go right they'll probably go that way. But anybody going left is pretty much would you say Gonna go out to the light, take the left and go. Right now you've got a lot of trips out in front. And

   3:47:28I know we had so we had a long battle and talking about with traffic studies with the whole team about the data, the data, the data, the two percent, etcetera, how it accounts for everything. And even though the data says it's okay for traffic When you look at the reality, when you look at the testimony of people here and you see all the traffic that's out there and now you're gonna add four hundred and sixty four more trips, does that affect your decision making whatsoever?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:47:54Um

   3:47:57I w the thing is that there's going to be an interim condition until the Bruce B. Downs 54 intersection is fully established. Uh and

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:48:09but but Terry. There's traffic now. Before this even comes in.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:48:14But there's going to be an an alternative exit point that if somebody doesn't want to sit in that traffic they can circuitously get out if they need to. So advice circuitously I'm talking about heading out to Wiregrass Boulevard or their west.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:48:27Alright, but let me let's go back. With what's out there right now, not any development going on whatsoever, there's a lot of traffic out in front. Right? You've heard the residents say it many, many times. So right now there's traffic anyway. Now you're gonna take and add four hundred and sixty four more units to add into the traffic that's right in the core of everything else as well. That you don't think that's a factor?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:48:47Uh based on the studies and and the other thing.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:48:51I told you the studies show we're okay.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:48:54It can't be my decision though. Uh it has to be on the on the studies.

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:49:02There's there will be two exits, not one.

   3:49:08So I don't know if he you know, y you wanna say that four more times. There'll be two exits, not one.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:49:15And there's more traffic already, it's gonna only get more traffic. Go ahead, Sari.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:49:21Um so just to move on to the next point that uh was brought up with regard to some of the commentary from the public safety agencies. Um the reception of no comment does not necessarily does not mean that the those agencies did not review, they just did not provide any suggestions to influence the project further. And the no comment, at least on our part, is understood As it being acceptable to that agency by acclamation. So they're they're not making uh a statement to

   3:49:51make a change or to influence the outcome of the project. They're saying this is a project, we recognize that it's coming up. Can you Jerry, can you move the mic a little bit? Oh I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do I need to repeat that or is that okay? Is that okay?

   Kathryn Starkey

   3:50:03It's been all day, so I think the volume's turned down.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:50:07So right, so as I was I'll briefly repeat

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:50:10Well hang hang on one I'm gonna go over that comment. You you just said that all the comments that were made, everyone says no comment.

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:50:17No, th we re there were some comments that were received that said no comment, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't review the project. It simply meant that they accepted the project by acclamation. They noted the fact that the project was gonna happen and they didn't have anything to say that would influence the outcome of the project or to make a change to it.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:50:37In that standard pretty much procedure f in the past year would you say, two years, how many comments do you ever get back from DEO or the rest? What what's the percentage?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:50:47Yeah well I'm the question's really not DEO. The question because DEO is reviewing if you want to if you want to argue at DEO They would be looking for the d data and analysis to see if there was if there was a gap in it. And they've said that they they basically have no comment so which as a lawyer I would say means the application is sufficient. for state review purposes. The

   3:51:17question that the Terry ne I guess needs to answer or or Barbara is

   3:51:25The things that the the fire and Um um Emergency services, police services that Ms. Graham is alleging is unsupported by the required data and analysis. Was there data and analysis for this application?

   Ron OakleyVice Chair

   3:51:47The data and analysis that the planning development department received was and reviewed was shared with the other agencies. They reviewed that information and provided the comments that they provided. So uh as it relates to DEO they accepted the transmittal and did not require any additional information for the project in their review. Um and then as far as um the density in area one, th this is an appropriate uh location

   3:52:17because it's at the most intense location of infrastructure that's going to be in the area which is the future intersection of Bruce V downs and stable 54.

   3:52:29I don't believe that it makes sense to place density at the center of the resort because then all of that density, the traffic of that density, is going to traverse through the single-family home neighborhoods that surround the resort. And that's something that I'm not sure I heard much about during a lot of the testimonies over the past couple of months. Um that these that if That density that's in area one was located in the center. In order for these people to come and go from their dwelling units, they

   3:52:59would have to traverse through the single family neighborhoods. Um, which is typically not how it's planned or done. You want your most intense up at the along the you most dense up at the uh intent in the intense corridors so that those people have a short trip to their dwelling units and then then the people who live beyond in the single family neighborhoods have a much more quieter neighborhood experience.

   3:53:25And so Area One then is actually oriented toward the external. That's how we have read it and understood it. It's not necessarily oriented toward the resort, but that the people that live in the resort can participate in the activities of area one.

   3:53:44Um

   3:53:46And then um finally I s I suppose with regard to the alternative site plan that was demonstrated um There is something that can be said about alternative designs and new ideas influencing a project and how they can be how that can be considered. I would say that, you know, the planning department hasn't reviewed or assessed that concept to provide a recommendation on it, but uh we are, as the planning department, constrained

   3:54:17by the property rights element of the company. It notes that the right of a property owner to use, maintain, develop, and improve its property for personal use and for the use of any other person, so long as their design meets state law and local ordinances. So when a c when a concept is provided to the planning department, we assess the concept that is being brought forward by the uh by the property owner. And there are sometimes tweaks that can be made, as is in the case with Van Dim. Intersection, for example. But in general, we stay

   3:54:47true to we try to stay true so far as the project is consistent with the comprehensive plan and compliance to the land development code, we stay true to the design that the property owner is seeking. So those are the comments that I would I would offer at this stage.

   3:55:06Okay, if uh if there's any questions, yeah. Yeah.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:55:09Okay. Well public honors called stuff. Okay. And the applicant?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:55:23Thank you. A couple things. Um Because Miss Graham brought up some inconsistencies and you know I'm an expert on the comp plan. Been doing it for twenty-seven years. Um helped have my hand in writing the comp plan and the codes that are being referenced. So some of these things that are sad I just have to say something about on the record. So talking about the P D land use and the fact that our currently it's a Res Six land use and we're going to P D somehow takes away recreation areas. What actually restricts residential property to no longer be residential property

   3:55:53in the comp land and restricts it to be recreational areas. So certainly not taking away residential area. Disrupts the entire golf course. The golf course is now res six. What it does is restrict residential on the golf course or non-residential on the golf course because now it's being restricted to golf course related um facilities and open space. Certainly does preserve conservation areas, encourage flexible creative design, that's what mudrum is. So

   3:56:26Our P D again restricts us, allows us to have the uses that you want, to have a flourishing um res resort. Because right now it's in a residential land use that conflicts with the resort and we talk about the tourism policy, but the current comprehensive plan is not consistent with the tourism policy because it calls for that resort to be a residential use, not a resort or a residential use. So when you talk about what we're now in Res 6 and what we're planning to do, which is to go to this PD land use.

   3:56:56We're cleaning up any consistency so we can flourish as a resort. in support of your tourism policies. We're take we're preserving, um we're taking away residential use on the golf course and preserving that. So it meets all the intent of plan development. Again, a lot of talk about multifamily This complement and this amendment is not needed for the multifamily that's proposed. For any of the residential that's proposed. We

   3:57:27do I think the other thing that we do appreciate very much the the residents and their ideas and we have had so many meetings and and we've taken all those ideas into in consideration. But at the end of the day My client has a business plan, a large investment they're proposing here and you know, they've got certain things in their business plan. They they want to have a a new driving range, stay at the art driving range, close to the resort and close to the uh current golf courses. They want you've heard

   3:57:57not from them, you've heard from independent witnesses who know this business better than everybody that thirty six holes isn't viable. So we didn't have to say that to you, you heard it from others. But they know that and they agree with that and their assessments. It took them a very long time to close this property. I they called me all the time with different questions for a very long time. So there was a lot of work that it went into them to buying this property. Um So they have a plan, they have a business plan and With

   3:58:27regard to um Some of the commissioner statements because I don't know if I'll get a chance to talk before the commissioner might talk about things beyond what people have said here, so I don't know. But with regard to the renovation plan The renovation plan is a plan between MAST and their resort owners, their invest the investors in those in those hotel condo units. Those are not real estate, those are registered securities, and that's what the renovation plan is. So to bring a renovation plan into

   3:58:58the this hearing for land use and zoning. Has nothing to do with us changing the land use from res six to P D. They have worked on the renovation plan, they have been transparent. Yes, they did release it, uh I guess last night or night before. My night's all Come together when you work all the time. Um With regard to the golf, I already explained the golf question of that plan and its relevancy and how long it's been out there and yes they've met with their members on that plan. The

   3:59:28other thing about traffic is

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:59:30L let me let me stop you right there.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:59:31Mm-hmm.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:59:32Just ask you a question.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:59:33Mm-hmm.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:59:34When we heard our first presentations Who was it that talked about the renovation plan?

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:59:41Do you think I could remember that?

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:59:43Only help you. Mast. They talked about what the renovation plan was gonna be, how they're gonna talk to the people. They showed us pictures about how it was gonna look.

   Barbara Wilhite

   3:59:51Okay.

   Jack MarianoChair

   3:59:52No details were sent. until last night at five thirty. The numbers that were talked about from talking to Mr. Pines, don't know, but we can ask him if you want. Says the numbers even from the renovation plan have now doubled. So you never showed anybody In the last six months from first coming to us. The renovation plan. Now the night before this hearing, it's bringing it out, and you want to call us out for talking about it? And talk about Mr. Pine sending it to us? It sends a clear message

   4:00:22that you haven't been straightforward with everybody every step of the way, in my opinion. Your your meetings you you could have had everybody together in one big room chose not to. You wanted to break 'em all up, divide and conquer.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:00:33I don't agree.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:00:34I uh that's why that's all I see.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:00:36We're gonna disagree.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:00:37The The plan for the golf course hasn't been shown either. Except for that one group. Why didn't we show it to everybody? So don't say that we should be talking about No

   Unidentified speakerVoice V

   4:00:46The Coalition has to

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:00:47I am talking. You said that you don't know why we're talking about the renovation plan. You're the ones who brought it out. Carry on.

   Barbara Wilhite

   4:00:56Because you asked us about what our plans were so we showed you that our plans. It's a very long project to renovate a resort like this. It's easy for people to say, well you didn't do this, and you didn't do that and you didn't do this. But this is a difficult project with a lot of components to it. So the criticisms just aren't fair, but I can't change your mind. Um it has nothing to do with the land use and I just don't want my client to be disparaged um because I just don't think that's appropriate. But Um I did want to say that one thing with regard to transportation.

   4:01:28What we're we hear what we don't hear is about the fact that we're gonna have a second access. Forever, Saddleburgh has had one way in and one way out. This development project solves that at a great expense. The vision road, we heard Mr. Swop Swope ask about the vision road, four lanes, eight lanes, it's not our vision road. It's your vision road. It's a road that was important to the county and in their build-out model, so this road needs to be there. And we're providing that road and the right of way for that road, not only in our property,

   4:01:59but through Wiregrass Ranch. So the fact that we go from one way in and out to three way in three ways in and out is significant and is not really discussed. It's interesting to hear that we don't need the Vision Road. When it does provide not only the vision road, but the service road and the road that'll come from Development Area One down into the resort for all the service traffic that now goes through the gates of the resort. Um it's it's those are significant changes. So um again I appreciate the Mr.

   4:02:29Hogan and the efforts on an alternative plan. But in the end of the day, my client has a very thought out plan. They've worked very hard on it. I would note that that plan actually includes property on Wiregrasses um we that we don't own. And the way it connects they have it connecting to um Division Road is through Wiregrass's property. I again hard to do those plans, so I understand Ms. Foster, when you she shows you her her property, I noticed she doesn't do it on top of an aerial because if she did you would see the

   4:02:59all the dense woods in between her property and development area one.

   4:03:08So with that, um

   4:03:12We think we meet all the requirements for the Comprehensive Plan to be approved and our team is available for for uh any to answer any questions. Certainly have lots of details to go over in the MPUD, but as you've stated you want to have separate hearings, so we'll leave those for the MPUDs and we would ask for your support of the Comprehensive Plan amendment. Thank you.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:03:34Um so Mr. Stark. I'm just gonna copy the motion and and for my um motion I'd like to use Hope's speech. Hope's speech is my motion because I think it was very well said. So um I would move to approve um staff's recommendation for the comp plan changes.

   Seth Weightman

   4:03:56This

   4:03:56is

   4:03:56I

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:03:57fifty four.

   4:04:01We are mo motion to second. Any further discussion? Follow the roll.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:04:07District One, Commissioner Oakley.

   Jack MarianoChair

   4:04:08Aye.

   Kathryn Starkey

   4:04:09District two, Commissioner Weightman. Aye. District three, Commissioner Starkey. Aye. District four, Commissioner Bradford.

   4:04:17District five Chairman Mariano.