Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment (Regular) - CPAL 22(06) Saddlebrook Resort PD - Providing For Transmittal Of The Proposed Large- Scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment To The Future Land Use Map (Map 2- 15 And Sheet 22) From RES-6 (Residential-6 DU/GA) To PD (Planned Development) on Approximately 549.39 acres of Real Property located to the South Of S.R. 54 and East of Service Road; and a Text Amendment creating Subarea Policy FLU 7.1.66 – Saddlebrook Resort; and a Map Amendment to The Future Land Use Map 2-9 adding Subarea Map 2-9(66) Saddlebrook Resort; and Providing for additional Text Amendments as necessary for internal consistency.

19:59modified one, or that was previously created, I should say, was modified one time in 1992 following the comprehensive plan to increase the approved commercial acreage by two plus acres for sports science. Center that was proposed at that time but was never built. Uh the proposed amendment to to uh that is before the Board of County Commissioners today for transmittal to DEO is to consider a PD plan development and it is intended to essentially clean up the conflict between the non-residential uses approved

20:29in the MPUD from 1986 and add a parcel that I'll show in a subsequent slide here. Terry, if you was Yeah.

20:38When you say clean up the conflict between non residential users approved in the M P D, what exactly are you talking about?

20:44Well right now the area is entirely Res Six. So everything, the golf course, all of the uh resort amenities, et cetera, all of it is Res Six residential six. And

20:56aren't they compatible uses with Res Six? I'm sorry? Aren't they all compatible uses in Res

21:01Six? They have existed under uh the future land use since nineteen eighty nine.

21:07And I w I mean we approved it or it was approved by a previous board as such. Was there a any problem with what you approved what was approved?

21:15Uh th there are uses that are currently in the Saddleburgh Resort that typically wouldn't be found in a Red Six future land use. Copy.

21:23Yeah.

21:26Um you wouldn't approve a hotel when they're not sure. The proposed the proposal here is to amend the future land use map to PED uh for a portion of the existing Saddlebrook M P U D area and to allow for a mixed use multifamily development along State Road 54 and renovations of the existing golf course recreation hotel uses that are that are there. Um the location is uh at about State Road 54 and east of the service road. Um

21:52And then it's a send there will be a rezoning associated with this uh in follow-up to to any comprehensive plan amendment uh that the board may up may approve. Uh that zoning amendment has been filed concurrently with the comprehensive plan amendment to overlap. And it is for an M P U D. So the following are policies uh that uh have been compared against the proposed use, finding the proposed use to be consistent with the comprehensive plan, proposed use change, consistent with the comprehensive plan.

22:25Uh this i this area is uh Located as I as I said on the south side of State Road 54 at approximately what will be eventually at one point the ne the southeast corner of the new intersection of Bruce Bowns and State Road 54. And that will be see if this works. Right about this location here. So this is this is all located on the southeast. And the area in red is the subject property that the proposed

22:55comprehensive plan amendment would be applicable to. And then the additional parcel that's being added is this one right here, located further east of the main entrance of Saddlebrook.

23:09So on the south side of several fifty score.

23:14Uh this is uh uh uh an easier image to see the area that's uh subject to the proposed land use change.

23:24So everything in pink is what would be uh P D. Uh this is the area the proposed area for land use change. Uh and we're showing the existing future land use that is currently overall uh all of the saddlebook area. So this is showing everything in res six. And then if a comprehensive plan amendment were to be approved and and the planned development would be applied, this is what it would look like on the map. And

23:55so everything in yellow then is the P D.

24:01Uh this is a uh a concept plan that illustrates uh some of the uses um that are or the develop redevelopment areas that would have some of the uses that they're proposing in the sub-area policy that's attached to the uh agenda memo. Uh this is area one. Located up here. And this is where the mixed-use trip reduction measure area is proposed to be, which would be handled in the MPUD discussions. This is area

24:31two, which includes multifamily townhouse office retail activities. This is the new parcel that's being added to the overall area.

24:45And red areas here are area three in a sub-secret concept plan, which I'll put up at the end of this presentation just so you all can see it. This will be marked off as area 3A, and this will be marked off as area 3B. And then not located on or not shown on this map, but located in this area here is the new location of the driving range and the The the new concept map will show that at the end of the presentation. Uh and then finally

25:15area four actually is I've lost my m my little mouse guy, but it's basically all of the golf course that will remain perpetual golf course areas to the pointer. All of that in between deposit housing, et cetera, will remain golf course.

25:33And so the recommendation for today is to authorize the transmittal of the proposed comprehensive plan amendment to the Department of Economic Opportunity and other reviewing agencies at the state level. Um this is only a transmittal. This is not a final uh decision uh from the Board of County Commissioners. And then if we wait for just a second, we will show the uh the new concept plan on the on the overhead.

25:55Terry, if you would hand the thought for a second. When you say it's only a transmittal. Isn't this by sending it off to DEO that we're actually saying we approve it and we want you to check it over?

26:07I I would say no because the Department of Economic Opportunity and the other state agencies, this is their their opportunity to provide comment back to the local jurisdiction to tell them uh what might need to what might what may need to be addressed from their perspective and then we would have to consider whatever they comment back to us uh and enter potentially into a dialogue. with them to make any necessary adjustments. And then following that, once those comments have been addressed,

26:37whether adequately or inadequately, however they get addressed, then it would come back before the Board of County Commissioners to say, do we want to adopt this? So how often do you get comments back from DEO? Um We do get comments back. I mean we we often send a lot of amendments, comprehensive plan amendments to to DEO, the m the vast majority of which we don't get many comments back, but we do get comments from DEO encouraging us to look at

27:07things one way or another. Um sometimes uh agencies like Florida Fish and Wildlife will comment Um we do we do receive comments from the state, uh, but not on every project.

27:19And but mess like you said the vast majority you don't get comments back. Okay.

27:25This is the a new concept map that had been provided to us that clarified some of the details that have been talked about at the local planning agency recently, local planning agency meeting that happened at Believe at the beginning of January. And you can see area one here, some of the detail that's being provided on the concept plan here. And there's a series of notes. Here indicating where gates will be, etc. Access to the new road segment here that

27:55would eventually become Bruce Bowns. This is area two over here with the townhouses and office retail equipment that I was mentioning. Probably should mention too that this is multi-family apartments proposed on this concept plan with retail office along 54. The area three A and three B uh with notations off to the side that's a I won't read from here. Um and then finally the location of the driving range here with um maintenance

28:25facilities di identified and parking lots, etcetera.

28:30Now Terry, you said that that was shown to the Planning Commission?

28:34No, this is in response to comments from the Planning Commission for greater det the local planning agency, not planning commission, but the same body. Um, in response to some of the comments that they were making for uh l having a little bit more detail uh on the plans.

28:51Commissioner Bradford.

28:53Thank you, sir. So the Planning Commission has not seen this map.

28:58Uh I would say that this map reflects the Planning Commission's concerns. But they have not seen this.

29:04The question is they have not seen this map. It's a P D. Correct?

29:09Uh not in a uh in a in a hearing setting.

29:14Terry, ls I listened to the whole thing. It was never said the drive room was gonna go there. It was pushed off with no detail.

29:22Uh they requested the detail to show it where it would go and then this concept plan. The applicant can probably speak to it uh uh more and be more articulate about the process that brought them to this depiction. Um but from uh from my recollection the Planning Commission was asking questions on where the LPA was asking questions on where the draft Range would go and they were requesting other redevelopment information. And to my knowledge,

29:53they were agreeable to presenting this to gathering this information and having it presented at subsequent hearings at the BCC, but certainly when they would get another crack at the at it with the MPUD.

30:06When we have an MPUD application, when we have a comprehensive plan, isn't the concept plan supposed to be started submitted at the start of this whole process?

30:14Yeah, and and we received concept plans at the beginning of the process, but it's a planning process, so it's quite normal for projects to change over time and evolve to meet the different concerns and objectives that certain, you know, interested parties might have.

30:31So one of the concerns that I have is the MP D parcel abuts on Van Dyne on 54. One of the changes that happened when the first presentation of the town hall meetings they had, which they did separately, not in a group meeting, um was the property up on Van Dyne initially was gonna going to connect with a trailer. They've since changed that. Now with no change and there's no connection, why would you include that in the M P D? Seems like you could kind of make another conflict.

31:01You you're referring to

31:02the Van Dyne piece number two. Right. Why would you include there's no connection, there's no interconnection whatsoever. It's a separate piece of property which has neighbors right beside it.

31:14Right.

31:14That should be focused on exactly what's going to happen around them as opposed to Saddlebrook which is going to be internal and w wouldn't really be be a factor.

31:22Right.

31:22Why would you include that in this M PUD that has no connection?

31:28Well I think from my perspective, an M DUD is ultimately a zoning district and if uh someone wants to apply to be part of a zoning district, they can they can join the zoning district. It doesn't necessarily mean that they join the actual development. um they can share in the same kind of uh say entitlements or in the same kind of um dimensional requirements that a particular zoning district might have. It'd be no different like if

31:58your neighbor was R4 and you wanted to zone into R4 yourself. In this case uh th they're going to participate in the same kind of uh development standards and requirements as the rest of the area. Um it's also owned by the same developer. So rather than go

32:22So with two separate things, let's face it, when you get a piece of property that's right on fifty-four, it can be looked at a lot differently because you're gonna have the in and out, it's gonna be just deal with the traffic, it's gonna happen right today. You can do your own study on just that specific specific piece. But when you have an MPUD that's got a thirty-six-hole honor palmer design golf course with a drive-in range with the schools with all sorts of amenities inside that I don't know why you'd combine those two.

32:50Mr. Chairman Mariano. No, what's before you is not the MPUD. Just what's before you is a comp a future land use map amendment to PD. So

33:05You're making the you're making the comments that why would you include it in the MPUD. It it may very well be included in the M PUD, but I need to get it on the record that this is not the zoning approval. This is the this is a future land use map amendment and it probably is appropriate for the larger future land use map to be changed all at the same time, rather than come in with What? probably could be done as a small scale amendment on that. Piece uh up front on State

33:35Road fifty four.

33:37Uh and and with l with the land use amendment, it's something that staff really just looks at compatibility to make the approval, correct?

33:45Yeah, I mean that the the there's a little more that goes into it because of this future land use classification that we have called P D. Um But if this was res six, yes, it would be is that is that future land use classification compatible what with what is next to it.

34:07Okay. And the Commission's got has the right to decide pretty much is it the right thing to do, which cut pretty much falls on us.

34:13Correct. Uh ultimate authorities with the dis at the discretion of the Board of County Commissioners. Okay.

34:21Um and that'll complete my presentation.

34:25Okay. Any other questions for staff at this point? Um, did you do a economic study on the r on the uh resort?

34:37The the Planning and Development Department uh usually refers economic studies to To with the o we we have worked on economic studies but usually in tandem with the opposite of economic growth to do them.

34:52Okay, so I think is David Engel in the audience? So I asked Mr. Engel if he had done one and I'm gonna let him respond to what he had to work with and what he found.

35:15Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Board Members. David Engel, Economic Growth Director for Pasco County. Thank you for calling me up, Chairman. Um just give you a little history. About a month ago the County Attorney's Office uh sent me an email suggesting that it would be a good idea to do an economic impact analysis and fiscal analysis of this project. I've had some. Communication with massed capital. I've also Had some discussions with a variety of homeowners that live on

35:45the premises. And uh the study that I would be presenting would be more attuned to the MPUD. And we've started to do this analysis but we're not complete. And we also wanted to address a number of questions we had. And we've asked Mass to provide some information input. Number one, um, what's the market plan for this? Who was a consultant? What's the financial nexus between the outparcels on 54 and the internal redevelopment of the site? Why

36:16would we construct you know, what's the rationale for reconstructing the golf course and locating the infrastructure and common areas to the resort where it is now and relocating the driving range? So Based on that, we started looking at some work and I would tell you right off the bat that the Mass project as proposed has additional economic and financial impact and benefit to the county. The commissioner uh uh that that asked me to do

36:46a study, asked well what would be the impact if we can took the garden apartments and the uh townhouses and eliminated them from area one and replaced it with an equivalent uh full service hotel. And the conclusion of this analysis using MPLAN, we modeled it uh using the input-output data that we have, which is current to our market. The hu

37:17the mass plan for for Area One would generate ad valorum taxes net into the general fund of $1,459,000. If the housing were to be eliminated, the hotel option would generate two million. $492 million. So the ad valorem tax pickup to the general fund converting the housing to a hotel is a 74 71% pickup.

37:48On the contribution to the Gross County product The Mass Plan would for Area One would generate about $86 million a year to our Rose County product once it's completed. Uh excuse me. The the mass plan would generate twenty eight million dollars a year And the hotel option would generate eighty six million dollars a year. And uh so the improvement on Rose County product contribution is fifty-eight million dollars, which is a two h over two hundred percent gain. Um

38:19so Clearly utilizing a hotel on the premises is advantageous from a fiscal standpoint as well as a gross county product standpoint. My recommendation is purely just on a vanilla standpoint. It's it has nothing to do with the merits of the development, merits of the proposal, location of land uses. And I've just begun speaking with the planning department. and working with them in a collegial fashion to come up with a an optimized idea and

38:49plan. So I'm still waiting on Mass to provide me with the information. Um I would would add that if you are gonna consider a hotel as a viable use in the Com plan that there may have to be an alteration to the transmittal to allow for that. So um if you have any questions I'd love to answer them. So I I appreciate

39:11you doing the apples to apples comparison, so it's real basic and simple.

39:19But over a million dollars to the Adval Arm taxes, that means the taxpayers of Pasco County saving a million dollars and fifty million dollars of gross domestic tax.

39:27Well we're not saving a million, we're getting a million more.

39:29We're getting million extra revenue.

39:32And the county the county economy will pick up an additional fifty eight million dollars a year doing the hotel option. Okay. Thank you for your help. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

39:45Right. Any other questions for staff? Non presentation. All right. From the applicant?

40:05I think they're looking for my PowerPoint. Barbara Wilhite, uh 6327 Grand Boulevard, Newport Ritchie, 34652 for the applicant. I have Erin Landry, Jordan Kornberg with Mass Capital with me today, Steve Henry, our transportation consultant, Justina Gale, our planner, and Bryce Swanson, our golf course architect.

40:31I thought by a very basic beginning of the story here, why are we even here and why are we amending this comp plan? I just wanted to kind of point out high level here that we do not need to change the comp plan to add our 620 units to this project. The Comp Plan already allows for a maximum of 1,779 residential units, which can be single family townhomes and or multifamily. Why we're here is because the comp plan

41:01is needed to allow for the resort and the commercial retail office uses. the current residential land use conflicts with these uses. You heard your plan director discuss that. The complaint also removes The residential use is currently designated for the golf course areas. It is a clean up. We went into this, I went into this. With what's the palm plan look like? And w how do we make the comp plan fit? for this resort in this area. And that's why I propose to change the

41:31land use from Res 6 to P D. to achieve all those things. But again. For the additional residential, we do not need a Comp Plan amendment. It already is allowed by the Comp Plan. What we do need a Comp Land Amendment is to clearly provide for those resort uses that are open to the public. to remove for the benefit of the residents to remove residential land uses from their golf course areas.

42:01And one of the questions we get are there existing remain remaining and unused entitlements in the M P D? Again, the MPD was approved in nineteen eighty six, amended one time, a very s a minor amendment. Yes, there are existing entitlements Within the Walking Village you can see there. The Walking Village is the resort area. Lakeside Village is the area where the single family homes are, and Fairway Village is where there's condos. And there's commercial. Hundred thousand square feet is currently approved in the MPUD. The total new residential units proposed is 620, the

42:31ones remaining in the MPD is 232, so the difference is the 388 unit difference.

42:39Community outreach has been extens extensive. Of this for this meeting there were 17,888 property owners noticed. Um both with community meeting notice. We had a round of community meetings last week, again more meetings. and public hearing for this public hearing. Community meetings were held in October, November, December, and last week. These are all the list of the meetings that started in in uh June and it went in Through last week. Um The last week ones. complied

43:10with, fully complied with the code regarding notice, we would get ourselves in a position of How you have to notice a community meeting under the code. versus getting the information out in a timely manner. As we changed our plans, we wanted to get it to the community. As we changed things, we wanted to get it to the community. So the meetings in December, my clients said, I want to get the the I want to do these meetings and I'm like, well, you got all this you got this number of days, you got to notice the meeting. So my recommendation was them go forward with the meetings, communicate with the neighbors. And so we did that and

43:40then we did again at the end of last week we had more meetings and those meetings last week you could attend in person in person or virtually. So there's been an abundance of meetings and opportunities for for people to engage and get information and get up-to-date information.

43:58A lot of different changes based upon community feedback. Redevelopment Area 4 at one time was proposed proposed for 60 single-family units and 100 townhomes. Another change was a lot of this question of what are you doing, what are you doing, what are you doing And at a comp plan level we generally don't have a lot of detail at the comp plan. when we do this. So What I did was create, take the I took the PD concept plan and created what's called a PD sub area plan. Never done one before. I never

44:28had to do one before, never was asked for the level of detail that I've been asked related to this project. So I created a P D sub area plan. A P D concept plan is not binding. This P D sub area plan is binding. It tells you a lot about what the development plans what's allowed in area one, two, three, and four. I created restricted area four, which is all the existing golf course area.

44:54is allowed to occur there and exactly what is not and what is not allowed to occur there. Right now, all your Com plan tells you is it's approved for residential density. So I've changed your comp plan or proposing to change your comp plan to be very specific going forward as to what can occur within those golf course areas. That's an improvement. for the benefit of the residents. Um To have that kind of specificity.

45:22And after the Planning Commission we were asked about area three, broke those down into areas three and f uh three A and three B. They wanted asked if we could provide before we came here more detail. And so we did that. And remember, mm all of these areas and all these plans have were made available to the public um to the to the neighbors. and within and then all the neighbors within 500 p feet of this boundary last week and we've continued to update them and had meetings along the way. And we revised the MPUD concept plan as as

45:52staff showed you. One of the other things is really an MPD level of detail has to do with the access at the existing entrance. We are proposing to add another uh to add dual left. Um s and then another and a right turn lane. So that's an improvement. We Steve Henry is here and we'll speak during rebuttal I'm sure. More of an M PUD level detail, but we're just trying to get all the information out.

46:18This is what I told you was the binding uh PD sub-area plan. I have passed that out to you so you can see that at a real time scale. It's in your packets. It's called PD Sub-area Plan and actually has more details than this slide has because if I put all the details on this slide, you would not be able to read them. So if you look at that plan You'll see that And this is the concept plan became a sub PD sub area plan. You'll see exact detail with regard to area

46:48one and what Um uses can go there. and what their maximum square footage is and their maximum number of units. Same thing for area two, very specific. Got I get asked I I understand your question, Commissioner Mariano, Chairman Mariano, regarding this area. This was owned by the Dempsey family. Um it was acquired by my client. And if I didn't include it, I would be told I wasn't transparent, and if I did include it, I got criticized for including it. So and I also want to point out that we had proposed a connection As

47:19required by your code here. a pedestrian and bike connection which was pushed back by the residents and we've agreed to amend our plans and our narrative to not seek that vari to seek a variation, excuse me, to seek a variation, to not include that connection. But our plans as submitted when we included this piece of property included a connection.

47:41And then area three and four. And then excuse me, area three, A and B. And I'll go over what all those areas mean.

47:55Area one is a village center, three point four eight six. It's to the it's the where the driving range is now. It's designed to exceed the county's Mudder M Ordinance, mixed use transportation reduction measures. It's a a very nicely planned out, mixed use, pedestrian friendly village, one of the nicer one uh ones I've seen. um restaurants with space with outdoor sitting areas, retail office space and multifamily apartments. Seventy five thousand of commercial retail and office. at

48:25that location, thirty-five townhomes, four hundred and sixty five multifamily The multifamily have to be located behind non-residential land uses along on State Road 54. That is your policy that you've adopted for other areas of State Road 54 that say that those residential uses need to go behind non-residential uses. That policy does not apply in this location. But we have I've made it apply in this location. This is the Mudham Plan.

48:54These are the integrated, um vertically integrated mixed use buildings here. You have apartments in a pedestrian friendly um layout. These are the town homes. This is the existing entrance. This way is north. When you look at this, you generally want to go this way is north, but that way is north.

49:17Area two, that's the area that's being added. That's a nineteen point five two acre parcel already has it has a res six land use designation on it. We're proposing a maximum of 120 platted townhomes. Um 25,000 square feet of commercial retail office. Again, we're putting the non-residential against State Road 54 and the residential behind. um pursuant to the policy direction, general policy direction that we've heard the Board of County Commissioners express. The only access is to State Road fifty four, as

49:47requested by the Community. That's actually an overstatement. this area will have no vehicular pedestrian. That'll actually be to your decision at the MPUD. At the request of the community, I've added that as a variation to my MPUD narrative to not have the required connectivity that your code requires. I apologize for that overstatement because that'll come to you with the MPUD and that'll be your decision to make. But fulfilling our commitment to the the homeowners that asked us not to have a connection We have included that as a variation.

50:18This is a from the concept plan that shows you the general configuration. Townhomes, non residential in the front. Here we go. And m my team will go over area three and area four in a little more detail because it relates to the

50:33slide for a second.

50:35Oops. Hold on.

50:39Show show me the connection on that parcel there connecting to the to the right side.

50:45Two. Along this eastern boundary?

50:49Yeah, are you are you connecting to that piece of property that's right there on fronting fifty four?

50:52We are connecting to we have to connect up here.

50:55There, okay.

50:56Yeah. Because that's a non residential use and this is a non residential use. No problem.

51:03Area three, my team's gonna go through and explain area three. It's related to the resort op the resort and and what they are planning to do with the resort. So I'm gonna let them explain that. They can explain those details much better than than I can do from a land use and zoning standpoint. Area four. Area four restriction. has evolved as we have worked with the Condo Association. um and they have reacted to this language. And said, can you make this clearer, can you make that clearer? And that's why

51:33this language has evolved since the Planning Commission is because we have a a group of of uh the board members, which are here today, I understand, from the Condo Association, have continued to revise what we can do in restricted area for.

51:50This is the MPD concept plan.

51:55at an MPUD level. That's why it's called an MPUD concept plan. Um And you can see there's a lot of details on here. This is a working document to communicate With both county staff and mostly with the neighbors. There are details on this plan over here about where gates go and what kind of access it's going to be, multi-use path. There are level of detail on here that have been put on here to communicate and you can see this is all relating to the the driving range which We'll we have a spl separate presentation

52:25that will explain that to you. But this is to communicate um when people have questions and concerns, we address them and we add them to this plan. That's a level of detail that we never put on any plan before the county. But we have no problem doing that level of detail.

52:41Can you sharbor, can you show me where that maintenance shack's gonna be on the drive driver?

52:45Sure. So the And my team can explain this better, but the maintenance will go in the orange. What's currently located here? In this area. We'll come over here.

53:02That's what

53:02you refer

53:03to as a cart barn, correct?

53:04Yeah, the cart barn. Then again, let me let me have my team speak more intelligently about it. What's interesting is that because of your vision road here Your vision road actually wipes out their maintenance facilities now when you do that vision road. It's unlike anything we've ever seen, with all of the Vision Road being on their property. Division Road in and of itself makes them remove that those facilities and this is the area where they're can put them. There is a small Shed uh storage area

53:34right here. for this operation, and they'll my team can go over that in better detail, this storage was over here. But we've had significant engagement from the condu association with these plans and they said, nope, nope, we don't think that's a good location. We've uh we evaluated with them moving it here and buffering it. So these plans haven't just been done in our, you know, back room. They've actually been evolving with the participation of the condo association.

54:04Do the people in Wygrah know they're gonna get maintenance shed back behind their property?

54:07We noticed everybody within five hundred feet of the boundary and they had their own ability to do a community meeting and attend in person or virtually.

54:15Okay. Is there any house?

54:16And it's not a it that is they can describe what that is. That is where they put turf and dirt and It's not the um facility for cart barn. but it is a f it is a facility that relates to maintaining that driving range. I will let them answer that. And they will do a much better job.

54:37With that, uh whoever's speaking next on my team.

54:51Thank you. I'm Jordan Kornberg. I'm with Mass Capital Managing Director and Head of Acquisitions.

54:58So I think it's important for everybody to remember what our ultimate goals are here. And we're all aligned. We want to make Saddlebrook a great community for everybody. We want it to be a world-class resort again. We want to prop up the golf academy, the tennis academy, and really all existing components of that business are our focus. So we're not singularly focused on any one piece. It's all important to us, and it all is mutually beneficial. This will create jobs, significant economic benefits for the county, and enhance the existing residents of the community, both from the offerings

55:28that they have to experience and the values.

55:34In terms of our experience, uh, you know, both MASK as well as our principals, including myself, uh, have significant experience across Florida and nationwide. Uh operating, owning, and investing in high-end resorts and you know high-end hotel properties. So this includes some of those examples up there, but Chica Lodge down in the Keys, the Conrad Hotel in Miami, Little Palm Island uh in the Florida Keys, Naples Grand, etc.

56:03From a residential standpoint, we're delivering very high-end luxury residential products that are an asset to the communities that they're involved in, both for sale and for rent. Included on here is a project in Miami Beach where we've set records for you know Miami Beach sale prices. So I think it's important for everybody to know we're developing communities that are really an asset to everything. Mm-hmm.

56:31In terms of our investment in Saddlebrook, we're very committed to Saddlebrook and really the long term uh you know, benefit of the property in our ten months of ownership to date. And I think it's important for us all to remember we've only owned Saddlebrook for 10 months. We've invested approximately five million dollars in capital improvements to the property. You know, unfortunately after 15 plus years of um lack of investment, uh that five million dollars doesn't necessarily show as you know uh really transforming the place. Uh uh I

57:01use the term drop in a bucket, uh, but five million dollars is not an insignificant spend and if we were not committed to the long term of Saddlebrook and the resort There was no need for us to spend that five million dollars. It's been a long time since it's seen investment. You know, we didn't need to replace the roofs, we didn't need to redo all the tennis courts, we didn't need to improve the landscaping, fix the greens on properties. You know, we are doing all these things because we're committed to Saddlebrook and we're committed to the long-term benefit of Saddlebrook.

57:31While we're doing this in the background, and we've shared a lot of these plans, we're working on a comprehensive renovation of the entirety of what exists today, that is Saddlebrook. I think as everybody knows, it's a very expansive property. So, and you know, with a with not doing a new build and renovating what's there, there's a lot of time and effort that goes into it, uh, especially given the date of this property. But our plans involve touching everything. that the eye can see. Meeting space, food and beverage facilities, lobby, pool, guest

58:01rooms, and really making it a comprehensive resort that the golf and tennis community continue coming back to. the groups that historically came to Saddlebrook that mostly don't come back anymore will want to come back to. And then there'll be a drive-to-leisure customer that also wants to enjoy Saddlebrook, which historically has not been a big segment of the business plan. And as part of that too, we're delivering a new members clubhouse facility which historically hasn't existed as well. And sorry, lastly to on that point. We're paying for

58:31a hundred percent of all the improvements in the public areas. So none of that is paid for by any of the residents in the community, any of the condo owners. The only portion that is paid for by anybody other than Mass is the interior of the guest rooms, which are owned by third party condo hotel owners. Although we are the largest uh we are the largest owner of rooms and so we obviously will pay our portion for the rooms that we own.

58:55In terms of our team, we've hired EOA, which is a South Florida-based interior designer. They focus mostly on high-end projects across Florida and the Caribbean. They've done the one hotel on South Beach, the Benn and West Palm Beach, which is a new built project. I worked with them at Chica Lodge down in the Keys, Conrad Fort Lauderdale, but you know, a top-notch interior designer that we have confidence in. and based on the plans we've seen, we'll be able to bring Saddleburg back.

59:25You know, we look at the regional comp set and all these properties are thriving right now. You know, Omni Amelie Island, PGA National, Marriott Sawgrass, the Reunion Resort. There is no reason why Saddlebrook should not be able to be compete with and really exceed these properties. And that's what our plan takes us, is for Saddlebrook to go head to head and hopefully out-compete all these properties. But today as a customer, you're really not shopping these versus Saddlebrook. And we want to make it that way again and in the past that's that's what Saddlebrook was.

59:57We talk about tennis. Um we've made significant commitments to tennis. As I mentioned, we redid all the tennis courts over at the academy portion. We've approved of redoing all the other tennis courts at the resort core. We brought back Sean McQuillan, who was previously the Director of Tennis, and we've seen some big wins already on the back of that. Re-engage with some of the professionals who have interacted with. So we did a nice shoot with the number 10 ATP tour player, which got Saddlebrook Good Press and is really relaunching Saddlebrook back into the tennis community. And then in January, we brought back our first tournament

1:00:27in four years. It was a $25,000 ITF pro-circuit men's tournament, and the feedback was great. It was streamed globally. waiting on the official rating, but we were told that it was very well executed and the feedback from ITF was remarkable. We've got more events coming back and frankly, even since we put the slide together, we've gotten more commitment from the USTA. So putting Saddlebrook back on the tennis map is a very important part of our business plan.

1:00:58Getting into the details of our plan, so as Barbara touched on, this shows area 3A and 3B.

1:01:07In yellow is area 3A. In orange is area 3B. So 3A is today 27 tennis courts and a surface parking lot. In our prior plans, this was all covered as one big area. We split it into two areas because our plans evolved and we've had more detail behind it. So our commitment to area 3A is that will remain as simply tennis courts. Surface parking. So no new development in place of where the tennis courts are today. And what we've preserved is up to 27 courts.

1:01:39We're committing to maintain at least 20 of them. We've built in flexibility, we have some amount of courts that we can take from tennis use to potentially pickleball or paddle paddle tennis, depending on what those demand needs are. And up to seven courts we can remove and replace with. surface parking, although frankly, I don't think we're gonna need to use seven. Um but at this stage, you know, we we're we wanted to commit to something that we knew was a worst case scenario. Um And no, I'm not sure. That's where we plan for our new members clubhouse. So

1:02:09that's a renovation of the existing buildings with uh an expansion in order to make it a competitive clubhouse facility with fitness use, locker rooms, etc. So that'll have food and beverage, locker facilities, fitness facilities, uh outdoor dining, pool area, etc. And then we've also carved out what is here, which is a pool. And then we've uh pickleball courts. We just actually took two uh unutilized tennis courts and converted them to four pickleball courts. We've carved that out of the area

1:02:39as well to ensure the preservation of those.

1:02:45What?

1:02:47So this shows the you know uh the preliminary footprint of what is in area three B. Oh sorry, and I I I'll go back. Barbara had also mentioned a movement of the maintenance facilities to Area 3B. So Area 3B today has a cart barn as well as resort maintenance. We will continue to have our cart barn and resort maintenance facilities here. In terms of the larger maintenance facility, we don't have capacity in this area to move the larger golf maintenance here. So the preliminary plan that we're

1:03:17exploring is the greater. Grand Pavilion. Um which is a little bit more than a little bit.

1:03:26Sorry. which is down here in the resort core. It's a very large open exhibition space that doesn't have much to it. That's where our preliminary p plan right now is for that larger maintenance facility to go to. It's away from all the houses. Uh it has good connectivity to both the resort and the golf. Um it's on the main road. So for a lot of reasons we think that's uh actually gonna be the best location for the maintenance the golf maintenance facility.

1:03:56Ultimately that's gonna be outdoor storage that's heavily buffered and landscaped. And so it it's we're not talking an actual facil uh building or facility there. It's uh you know mostly gonna be storage of materials.

1:04:11So this is back to the clubhouse. And then this shows a 3D model of that area, you know, 3B and what the clubhouse is going to go. And you can see where the four pickleball courts that we just added are on that plan. So mostly existing buildings that get fully renovated with some expansion of of of new buildings.

1:04:31For the golf, you know, we brought on Rhys Jones uh and Bryce Swanson from Reese Jones' uh team is here and we'll talk. But you know, Rhys is a world-class golf architect who has it in his blood and lineage, uh, you know, the golf business. Uh and we you know this is just some of the amazing courses Rhys has done, but you know, US Open venues, PGA Championship venues, Ryder Cup venues, both from a new built course as well as a a renovation of existing facilities. So, you know, their their resume as a firm is

1:05:01is quite impressive uh and we're confident that they're really gonna deliver us uh a very high quality facility that competes with anything around us.

1:05:13The new driving range plan. Um so ultimately the course will be a twenty seven hole course with three nines. Uh you know, we were sitting down with uh the Reese J Rhys Jones team today and so we don't yet have the full twenty seven hole routing plan to share, but we are close. Um but the driving range, you know, the location's the southeast corner, uh, which you know keeps it distant from a lot of the residential homes in the area. And you know, ultimately it's a two-sided range that

1:05:43you know meets the needs of both the Academy members as well as resort guests. So all of the facilities that exist at the driving range today in its current location are replicated here and it meets all of our needs. And then the 27-hole routing plan, ultimately what we do know and we can commit to is anybody who has a home with a golf course view today will continue to have a home with a golf course view and that will be unimpacted.

1:06:08And we touched on the deed restriction, but you know, we have agreed with the Hotel Condo Association on the form of deed restriction. And so we've worked with them over the last several weeks. And that is our commitment to the Saddlebrook. And we think it benefits the community overall. But that's you know the only association that's thus far has engaged with us, but we've reached full agreement on that with them. And that will protect as golf into perpetuity. So with that I'll turn it to Aaron Landry.

1:06:49Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Aaron Landry with Mass Capital. Thank you for your time. I wanted to highlight some of the economic benefits of our proposed plan. And I appreciate uh Mr. Ingall's comments uh earlier and certainly look forward to hopefully sharing some of the information that we have with him uh to make sure he has everything he needs.

1:07:10So the few the few of the aspects I wanted to focus on is job creation uh in particular the real estate uh values as well as some of the direct fiscal benefits. So since Mass purchased the resort a little bit less than a year ago, we've already added 100 jobs to the payroll. And then we also commissioned our own study by a group called Miami Economic Associates that do these types of studies that David was referencing all around the state. And so we have, based on our plans,

1:07:40generated basically information that creates these outputs that I want to share with you. And I think the the highlights from this is the way to think about this slide and information is you have non-recurring, which is effectively your construction period. And then you have um your recurring, which is obviously post-completion. And so when we Based on our plans as proposed and Barbara had shared obviously the concept plan between all the areas, inclusive of the resort renovation, you can see that uh in using in fact even M Plan, which is

1:08:10a um proprietary software, which is very common and and and what David also referenced earlier, that 2300 approximately jobs will be created during the construction period. And then post-completion, approximately 700 jobs moving forward. Ultimately that generates significant obviously dollars in terms of where those wages are spent. If you if you could, could you hang

1:08:34on to that slide for a second? Yes. Just because you're touching exactly the same data he was using. I think he said it was like about twenty-eight million dollars would be the G D P

1:08:42and

1:08:43I think that's your number at twenty six. So what how what were your thoughts when he made the comment he's gonna increase the GDP by fifty eight million compared to doing the apartment complex

1:08:57So I'd say in terms of trying to create more value, um, we're all in favor of that. I think to be fair, we've not seen any plan or inputs based on his study. We've done this based off the actual plans that are in front of you. So it's it's sort of a it's comparing a hypothetical to what we have proposed. And so I can't comment on something I haven't seen with I have no idea what input. He he put forward to generate those numbers. So

1:09:20so he asked you for information. Did you give him any information? Did you have all this

1:09:24and just didn't share it with him? No, so we provide I reached out to Mr. Ingle uh last week and we've had conversations prior to that to make sure we provide him any information he'd like. We've shared information along the way in the past weeks, significant presentations with a lot of this data and information. Uh this report was not complete in order to share this with him. Otherwise, we would have. We're happy to share it after uh to provide that information to him. But as far as the plans that Have been described and proposed and other information and details that we had, we share that

1:09:54information with them prior to today. So how when did this get completed? So this was completed on Friday. In terms of having a d having it having a version that we could actually

1:10:05So we have we have a planning commission meeting that's a recommending body to us to have data put in front of them. This is supposed to get a whole concept plan, including all these economic figures. And you guys have it ready for Friday before we're gonna see it. I'm gonna say his fifty-eight million dollar GDP higher than what you've got? And as far as tax revenue for us? I mean all this should have been looked at by us way ahead of time. But go ahead.

1:10:33Again, happy to share uh all this information with Mr. Ingle. Um terms of increased home values, um since we purchased the resort, there's been significant increase in home values. It's undeniable. Uh and twenty you just look, I think the two takeaways are if you look at the number of sales in 21 versus 22 when Mass purchased the resort, and you look at the actual increase in values, it's significant, almost doubled. There's been no reason to For a change in the values of the units at the resort, other than or but for

1:11:04basically word of mouth in the fact that Mass has put forward plans for the resort. The resort has been on a path of decline. There's been lack of investment. There's been no reason logically that the values would change, but obviously folks are benefiting and we haven't even fully executed our plan. Five million dollars invested thus far. So just

1:11:24to be clear. You're saying because of masked these values have gone up hasn't been the market itself. How does the market compare to what your

1:11:31values have gone?

1:11:31So

1:11:32that's actually a good good point. So the way this is broken out too is the top is the resort, which is the kind of hotel units, the bottom is Lakeside. So just by pure analysis, the top being the condo, you're seeing Lakeside, which is a traditional unit, you can live in the unit. You know. Full time. But kind of hotel you cannot. So you can see the the the the increases in the Conda Hotel. Almost 300% increase in certain instances. You compare that to the bottom chart, which is much more, I would say, typical

1:12:02of a traditional obviously real estate value for a home, you're seeing approximately 35% increase there. So it that's an indication that again Mast hasn't renovated the resort of any great extent other than the 5 million we put in, and that's just the beginning. But that goes to show you kind of the what I'd say is the the hyperactivity that's clearly associated with the plans that Mast has put forward for renovation of the resort and investors taking the opportunity to try to have some upside and get in early. That's that's a it's a classic example

1:12:33of that.

1:12:33I recall seeing an email from a lady who I think had bought one of these for about two hundred and sixty thousand dollars, maybe three hundred and sixty thousand dollars. And Is that that one of those units that went down what we're talking about for as low as from eleven to thirty five thousand?

1:12:47I have no idea what what unit you're referring to. I I'm telling you this is we can we can obviously go back and try to find the exact exact transaction, but I'm ha

1:12:56we'll we'll wait to hear from the people. Um so just one more question. With these units here, what did they generally sell for maybe ten years ago, five years ago? Any idea?

1:13:05Five years ago, I don't know. But I would but I think it's clear from twenty one and the resort has been on a path in terms of valuations going down to see them jump and double in twenty two when nothing's changed. It's it's inexplicable from a real estate perspective.

1:13:21Purchase basis, does Mast have the first right of refusal on

1:13:24these walking village condos? So Mast has a right of first refusal. I think the key to understand is that does not mean that the person has to sell their unit to Mast. So if you are if you own a unit and you have another buyer and they're willing and that buyer is paying a higher price, you don't have to sell the Mast, you take the higher price. So you're not being harmed as an owner.

1:13:42No, but you but mask can buy it for the same price that the other person's being offered a sale for.

1:13:47You can match that price.

1:13:49So mash can mask can match it

1:13:51and then buy it. We could match it, but if you get a higher offer, you don't you're not obligated to sign. No, the uh but you can have

1:13:56first right refusal.

1:13:58Correct. Which is pretty typical of a kind of a hotel structure. Okay, so how many inherited

1:14:02how many of these have you bought? in the past year.

1:14:05Today

1:14:09Twenty-two? Twenty-two? Twenty-two. Thank you.

1:14:15Uh in terms of the bed tax, uh I'll just highlight briefly here. Um again in 21 the bed tax was that was generated by the resort was around $200,000 since MAST has taken over. Um that tax has increased by about $100,000. Clearly, um I think that's again partly due to good operational uh expertise and and changing over of the of the team and staff and implementing new policies. But ultimately I think the bigger uh the bigger takeaway here is the potential uh to generate significantly much more embed

1:14:45tax uh through the implementation excuse me implementation of our plan. Uh

1:14:50as

1:14:50discussed earlier.

1:14:51And if you'd stay on that slide for a second as well. Yes. When you get to the point of having all your data together, which you have for Mr. Engel as well, do us a comparison as well, like he did. Show us what the tourist development tax would be revenue wise if you made them condo hotels as opposed to apartments. Okay. Thank you.

1:15:12In terms of direct fiscal benefits, um this is again associated with the overall proposed plans for the new development areas only, so this is not uh information related to the renovation. So uh generally speaking these numbers would actually be higher if you included that uh portion of uh renovation work. But The point is in terms of overall fees that would be paid associated with the new development, that's approximately $7.6 million. And then on a go-forward basis, just for the residential components that we had shown on

1:15:42areas one and two, we have that estimated at approximately two million dollars. Again, that does not include what would be the retail and office components that we had shown in our proposed plan. So that two million dollars would be be uh ultimately higher.

1:15:56And then lastly, um before Jordan comes back up, just wanted to highlight these are meant to be what I would say is inspirational images. They're just um again these are not these are not A, these are not mast owned uh properties, but in terms of trying to give a sense of sort of flavor and direction if you will for the town center concept. Uh here's one which is the square in West Palm Beach. Uh and then a second one here which is the village in Leesburg, Virginia. Again not to be uh that that what we intend to do is precisely or exactly as that, but it's meant to be more of a sense of um sense of direction

1:16:27or intent with the town center concept. With that I'll let Jordan

1:16:32Commissioner Commissioner Weightman has a name for that. What's your what's your name? Downtowns? Oh y then does mean. Oh Entertainment.

1:16:46Thank you. So we just wanted to walk you through some of our plans, but real quick before that, um when we talk about five hundred new hotel keys on the you know northwest portion of the site, what we inherited was a five hundred room roughly hotel that sits

1:17:00largely in

1:17:00the right-of-way.

1:17:00Hey Jordan? Yes. Um you're out of time. I know we've asked a few questions, which is okay, so I'll give you extra time, but can how how long do you think you'll need to wrap it up?

1:17:07Uh So I only need a few minutes. We were gonna have uh Bryce Swanson from Reese Jones team speak, uh who was planning on five minutes as well. So I think with seven, eight minutes we could get through the rest. Okay. Um So we have 500 hotel keys today that sit largely vacant. They're running 20% occupancy when we inherited the resort. We have a lot of condo hotel owners who have economic interests are aligned in that resort. So I just want to make clear before we add 500 new hotel keys to the property. We have roughly 400 hotel keys

1:17:38a night that sit vacant. So we need to focus on filling those 400 hotel keys that sit vacant before we add 500 more. Um and so in terms of our renovation plans as I mentioned, really everything the eye can see gets touched. So enhancing the arrival experience, that's an image of it, adding a new fountain, um, and you know, landscaping obviously all throughout the resort. new coffee bar and marketplace in the lobby. You know, lobbies are generally places to meet today and places to interact. Saddlebrooks is very transactional, so creating this

1:18:08will really enhance that whole lobby experience and make it aligned with most resorts today. You know, taking what is today Dempsey's two and really making an activated restaurant and sports bar concept. Uh you know, we have uh shuffleboard and pool table areas shown there, uh significant capacity enhancing the seating, and then really an indoor-outdoor connection. You know, that outdoor area overlooking the eighteenth green of a saddleboard course is is truly beautiful. Um and there's no seating there, there's no activation. So really activating that area we think will better. benefit everybody. Specialty

1:18:39restaurant, this is today where Tropics is, really making it a high-end three meal, fine dining execution. And then this is a rendering of ultimately our guest room product. You know, the the guest rooms are in dire need of renovation, the entire resort's in dire need of renovation, and this will bring the product up in line with those competitive resorts we talked about and really bring saddle work back. It's just another rendering of of the guest rooms. And so ultimately, you know, our plan is to enhance Saddlebrook. We've done a

1:19:09significant amount of that to date, as I shared, as as Aaron shared, and this is going to benefit the overall community. So, you know, I think it's important for everybody to remember that. And with that, uh Jordan, a question for you. Yes. You say your occupancy rate's twenty percent? When we inherited the resort, it was twenty percent. It's ticked up since we've owned the resort um just based on some sales strategy, but it was running roughly twenty percent occupancy when we inherited it. Okay. And when you took it over February? Correct. Well, and that's a TTM trailing twelve month annualized number, so no seasonality or anything like

1:19:39that.

1:19:39So let me ask you this with you have the right to make the people renovate if you choose to, correct?

1:19:45We do not have the right to make them renovate. They have to choose to renovate.

1:19:48They have to choose.

1:19:48Correct. Okay. Um that's different from one of the contracts I read, but I'll uh I'll wait to hear. So so they can if they don't renovate, to be in the rental pool, they need to be up to standards, which is typical of condo hotels. We can't force them to renovate. So ultimately it's their choice whether they renovate or not. And you know, when you develop standards, it's then a question of rental pool particip participation versus not.

1:20:17All right, so twenty percent when you took the rate it over, it's up now. What is it now?

1:20:23Thirty four percent. Okay. And do you remember what it was the year before when you guys first started looking at the property, what those numbers were? Eighteen percent. Okay. Thank you.

1:20:34Question? Thank you, Chairman Mr. Weightman, sorry. I have while I was waiting, I've been making notes as you've been going along. But because of these rental standards Y'all the mass set the rental standards. They're not like part of any county ordinance code, that sort of thing. It's mass standards that the out third-party owners that aren't mass, if they choose to renovate. Obviously I would think they can make that decision in due time. Is there a timeline? Uh approximate

1:21:05budget if they want to renovate it, do they have to use the mask contractor? Not necessarily

1:21:13No, if that's the role of the county to really understand the detail in the questions, but it's our job to ensure that ownership and public benefit and quality and trust is there too.

1:21:22Right.

1:21:24Can you answer those questions?

1:21:26Absolutely. So ultimately we're working on finalizing, you know, we've shown the renderings, we're finalizing a bid package to to have pricing on it. Um and you know ultimately we will then go to owners once we have all that buttoned up to say, here's the cost, and even beyond that, here's our projected projected pro forma. Here's the here's what the revenue will go to if you renovate and where we think operations Go, and this is what the return on your vest investment will ultimately be and your payback period. And you know, in terms of payment

1:21:56timing, um, you know, that's also gonna be something that we're gonna look at. In terms of people doing it on their own, ultimately, there's gonna be a significant benefit through contracting them all together and significant benefits of scale. Uh so you know, ultimately, I think the the idea. The idea would be that they would all go through our contractor from a resort from an execution and logistics standpoint. It would be, you know, frankly, very difficult to have 300 different contractors running around the resort and you'd get the benefits

1:22:26of scale you learn from the model room project. So ultimately, the idea would be that we would contract it all for the benefit of everybody, and everybody would get the scale savings that you. get from buying five hundred times versus once.

1:22:38And are you putting them on a block? You putting a a time expiration for those that still own third party? Are you putting them on a ninety day, six month like is there a is there a time frame in which they have to come into the

1:22:53No, ultimately, if somebody decides down the road, obviously, you know, we're happy to then renovate their units in the future. So there's not going to be a ticking time where you need to come in by this date. There could be an additional cost, though, if you don't, you know, when we ultimately bulk by, there's lead times and all the stuff, things are ordered in bulk. So if there's an owner who chooses not to renovate and then a year later wants to renovate, we're very happy obviously to coordinate that and do it. it um it just might cost a little more ultimately to buy things one off.

1:23:21So then who markets the say non-renovated Condit.

1:23:27So the non-renovated condos ultimately, you know, through the condominium documents and everything that exists, those determine but you know what can be done with it. And you know, they uh can be used as as a residence. Um, you know, there's certain limitations, obviously, uh, in terms of you know what what what those units can and can't be to protect the resort. Um but any, you know, they they're on their own to do um what they do. So within the within the documents that exist.

1:23:54So when when a customer comes into town and they choose to say it's saddlebrook. They can go online. I'm assuming they go online and choose what, you know, they want a uh a room that's been remodeled, renovated, and then versus an old one, you're those rooms that say that third party owns, they'll have the ability to still market their room and collect revenue, right? Or will those be pushed to the bottom of the pile and all the shiny rooms be set for sale?

1:24:20So for short-term rental, it needs to be a part of of our rental pool. Um so you know nightly nightly rental as a as a hotel um would go through our rental pool, but obviously there's you know they can use their units, they can do longer term rentals on it, um but short term rental is restricted to the the the resort you know owner.

1:24:39So Mass is gonna ensure that the folks who may not necessarily choose to renovate their condo right away will have the opportunity to still have their room to collect revenue off of that.

1:24:52Of course. No, listen we we obviously can't restrict anybody from accessing their units. It's you know, they own it, they have a contract with us. Uh if they no longer have a contract with us, it's it's their unit. Um we no longer have rights over it.

1:25:07Are we still doing questions?

1:25:10Uh

1:25:13Thank you for that deep sale. So back to the I think Aaron showed a slide that said thirty-eight million in local job creation with construction companies. Are y'all bringing in an you know, out of Tampa Bay, out of k is that is that contractor chosen? I mean is it coming are those are these jobs that you're gonna be paying, which is great. Well they're gonna be patient. Loc is gonna be local contracting opportunities associated with it, or

1:25:43as MAST have their, you know, their preferred contractor that comes in from wherever and that's that's kinda how that thirty eight million is is figured, 'cause I kinda look at that as it doesn't necessarily stay in Pasco County, that figure may or may not be. fair on an economic point.

1:26:04That's it's a fair f good question. Um ultimately, you know, it'll be a combination. Uh you know, I'd I'd expect we always try to work with local groups where we can, and especially in the subcontractor community. Uh, you know, I'd say a lot of the subcontractors ultimately are are local. Uh you know, contractors we'd look both locally and for, you know, larger, more, more statewide groups. Um so I'd expect there to be, you know, some combination Of of local and outside, but definitely not all outside. Um, but you know, we we also can't commit

1:26:34that it would all be a hundred percent local.

1:26:37Thank you. Um

1:26:41To area one.

1:26:45In our planning process, do we have any com I mean I've always been open with concerns of traffic. Do we have any comments for In the plans from our Sheriff's Department.

1:26:58Those on the record? They're supposed to make comments on it. And I say that out of concern of half dozen or so red lights from the interstate.

1:27:06There are comments within your agenda memo. They're not very helpful in terms of

1:27:13Well

1:27:14that sort of information.

1:27:25I mean it doesn't give you it it shows that there's a concern from law enforcement, it doesn't really ask you to do anything.

1:27:37That type of detail on a project like this is important. Especially in a congested area. Commissioner Weightman

1:27:46Uh Commissioner Starkey first, you had her hand up. Sorry.

1:27:49Um, thank you. Uh so first um uh I got some emails that uh it uh suggested that my son is involved with your project. I wish he was, but uh Wheelock Street Capital is not involved in this project. Correct. And um but I know from my son and we all know his company did um Starkey Ranch.

1:28:15that uh that they've been part they had been contacted by many groups who were looking to buy Saddlebrook, but they passed. And I I know even Tom Brady's was in on a deal to purchase Saddlebrook. And that that didn't come through. So within a group. I'm personally very excited that someone's willing to invest and bring the Saddlebrook. Back up to where it used to be. Um it's interesting I'm looking here and there are a lot of homes in Saddlebrook that are on BRBO.

1:28:46So um I don't know how that works with our short term rental program that has only about six legal homes in it, but this is another reason why we have to fix that ordinance so these people can rent their properties legally, because right now you can't rent on on Airbnb or B R B O, except for about six houses in the town.

1:29:07So uh I just wanted to touch on the subject of having to update your condo to be in the pool and I I like to travel and I stay in a lot of VRBOs, condo hotels, and others, and I I understand the reason why they want to protect their new name because they're trying to brand Saddlebrook as a five-star resort. And if you go and you stay in a in a um outdated room, it's

1:29:38not going to reflect well on the new brand they're trying to bring to the county. So my son's company has purchased a resort called South Seas Plantation. Some of you may know it, down in Captive Island. Same exact thing. If you want to be in the new new upgraded rebranded resort you're gonna have to upgrade your product to fit with what they're trying to promote and and so I'm even surprised you're allowed that there's other sales

1:30:08allowable in the community um because you you know you someone rents something with a broken couch, the oven doesn't work or whatever, then you start getting bad Reviews. It's tough to overcome a bad review. So I I understand what they're trying to do on their rooms. And um Uh I'm not gonna get into all the other stuff until we're done with the presentations. I just wanted to touch on that aspect of how these operate.

1:30:37Okay. Commissioner Bradford?

1:30:41Thank you for your presentation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I made a note that you said your statement was that uh if you have a golf course view under your development right now, you maintain that call golf course view. Is that correct?

1:30:59Correct.

1:31:02Okay. Twenty now.

1:31:05Okay.

1:31:06Um

1:31:08there's a do you have another part of your team speaking? Yes. Bryce Swanson.

1:31:14No, we haven't still got

1:31:16and he's coming up, I wanna remind you when we had the governor at Saddlebrook. In I don't know. I don't know. Okay. So he left early because it was so hot in that room because the A C didn't work. Do you remember how hot it was in that room?

1:31:31I think the whole floor and cabinet was

1:31:33Yeah, they couldn't take they couldn't take the heat, so Yeah. We need a new air conditioner in that big room.

1:31:59Uh Chairman and Board, good afternoon. Thank you for your time. I'll go quick. Uh my name is Bryce Swanson. I'm uh Vice President Vice President Senior Designer for Reese Jones Inc. We're based out of Montclair, New Jersey. But we actually work all over the world, in the U.S., predominantly from that standpoint. Those who are golfers, perhaps in the audience, might recognize the name Jones. Reese is actually the son of Robert

1:32:29Trent Jones Sr., who is a famous American golf course architect. Reese and his brothers started out learning hand in hand from his father, and ultimately he went out on his own. As I mentioned, we've worked on over 240 projects completed throughout the U.S. overseas. We're also all members of the American Society of Golf Course Architects. That's why I have my jacket on. From that. But some of our projects they vary in scale. We've

1:32:59done anything from municipality public golf to resort golf, and then two private clubs. But we've also had the opportunity to work on a number of the U.S. Open venues, PGA Championships, Ryder Cup venues, to prepare those for those special events. In Florida, we've actually worked both courses for the Breakers over on the other coast. We've done some work further south down around Naples, Bonita Springs. Uh I

1:33:29myself just finished up two over in the Palm Beach area from that. So we're used to the conditions or the environment here. But when Mass Capital approached us, uh our job once we first came out was to evaluate the existing golf course. And as you've heard today, One of the concern items being concerned is the relocation of the practice fairway. The practice fairway is located up there in the kind of the very northwest corner up by the inner uh the highway 54.

1:34:00Did I get that correct? Um And just from a logistics operations standpoint, it's substantial distance. So to make all the pieces go together with the redevelopment and to bring Saddlebrook back. Ultimately the item they asked us to take a look at was relocating the range. What we focused on after studying the entire property was the southeast corner, which is currently made up of Palmer number one, Palmer 2. uh Palmer's 16 17, a number of holes there. Uh we

1:34:30settled on that area because it gave us the greatest space to build a state of the art practice facility, not only for the members and the guests, but also to grow the golf school back into what it once was. The golf schools dropped down in the number of kids who actually attend, down into high teens where Back in the day I was up in the twenties, uh, from that standpoint. Uh this slide right here with the white line around you uh around it highlights the area that we've focused on to create the new range,

1:35:00uh practice amenities that all go with that short game areas for not only members and the resorts but also for the golf school. Um This right here is a preliminary concept that we've developed, something similar to anything we build at any other high-end resort, private club, but it has the capabilities to allow members to use the west corner of the range. Don't know how to uh But that's the closest piece closest to the pool as you're looking

1:35:31at it. uh resort guests and members would have a quicker access to it. the further uh corner of it to the east would allow the golf school academy to have the same components that they currently have but actually give them more state of the art. Bring it up to kind of the current industry and where things are going. Uh with that, we had to take into a different account safety setbacks, everything that we look at in terms of the setbacks. So we found plenty of space to set it back from

1:36:01one end, one end of the T to the other end of the T. We're at 365 yards from that. With that Uh just to kind of hone in our focus, if somebody now is coming to the the range, you could see uh we've repurposed what was Palmer number eighteen green into a short game area where players could kind of work on their game, a little putting green for them to warm up. Uh we have found some additional uh parking. Which is currently on the existing

1:36:31Polymer No. 1T. So if there was a need for additional parking spots, we have found a spot. We've created a space for the Turf Nursery Green from that. And then as you move through it, the range floor is designed such to allow people the maximum practice experience to really work on their game. But the beauty of this spot is We have nice setbacks from the surrounding development, properties down to the south, the surrounding condos, and that. And

1:37:02then it was touched on earlier the additional maintenance storage, just to clarify, again, it's not actual a full blown building or anything that. It's nothing more to a certain extent of a concrete slab. with some bins, which are concrete walls, six feet, eight feet in high. It's just somewhere where they could store some of the materials that they periodically use out on the golf course, like the bonkers sand. top dressing sand. Uh maybe it's a spot too where the ball picker and some of the equipment used to clean up the

1:37:32range uh gets kind of housed. They wash down balls, uh those type of components. But the full golf course operation, the site is uh being considered as the old Grand Pavilion on site, uh with the idea of repurposing that. Uh to give everyone clarification too, the back portion of the range is set up not only for the idea of the golf school academy, but then too for the ability of the members to be able to go down there, get away from people

1:38:02to really work on their games, uh maybe something too for the resort to grow more of a one-on-one teaching or golf school academy for uh people who come to the resort for an extended period of time. There is a proposed uh building structure at the very back of the r uh the practice fairway for the golf school. It's 40 by 60 feet. The idea of that is restroom facilities for the students, teachers, uh controlled environment in terms of AC, break room, somewhere

1:38:33to go in, actually watch some video uh break down their swing from that and then with that Additional components, putting green, short game areas, space where everyone could really use and maximize their experience. Uh with that, um this is just again overall uh The rework of it, it does require us to uh fill in and relocate some of the water usage, preliminary

1:39:03conversations with the engineer. And also based on my past experience in Florida. Uh those are all things that are doable. Uh just requires to go through the proper channels as it relates to permitting in the process from that. But there is a small pound uh pond being proposed to be filled. And then uh uh certain ponds being reconfigured in the lighter blue. The dark blue indicates the current shapes. Um and with that uh That's

1:39:34all I have.

1:39:35All right. Uh question for you. So you're gonna be taking up pretty much one, two, sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen. So in Palmer course, the old style course, kind of a links course that goes out for nine holes, keeps on going, comes back in for eighteen. Where are you gonna have the first T for those new golf course?

1:39:51Sure. Um so on that, uh one of the things that I didn't I didn't go into is the current state of the golf course. Um You have exactly you have the Saddlebrook The original course is a nine-hole loop, kind of returns back to where the pool area is from that. The Palmer is one long continuation. What we've developed right now preliminary on paper and we're just Not ready to present because we need to check some things, but uh

1:40:21the new configuration would be actually the Palmer holes would get reworked. Everybody who has golf outside their backyard would still have golf from that. We're not taking away any of the golf from that. Uh what we're gonna do is actually break What we looked at is breaking some of the front nine of the saddlebrook. layout holes one through nine. To allow us to rework a configuration for a new nine that uses two of the existing Saddlebrook front nine

1:40:51holes with a rework of seven holes of the Palmer course to get us three nines that return back to the pool area. Uh so from a resort operation standpoint and also from the members We'd be able to provide them with three nines that are equal in yardage, uh PAR thirty-five or par thirty-six, but a similar level of test to golf.

1:41:14So where's the first T gonna be?

1:41:16Uh how do I use the red pointer?

1:41:21No idea.

1:41:30Okay. Um so the first Yeah, I'm gonna go back. I don't know if we have

1:41:42Uh so the f

1:41:46Alright. So right now this is Saddlebrook hole number one. Right here the green with the sand around it. That's Saddlebrook number four. Ultimately this would be Hole number one, hole number nine. And what we'd be proposing is using Saddlebrook Hole number five as the new start for the the new nine. That's the

1:42:10Saddleburgh course is eighteen holes of nine in nine out.

1:42:13Right.

1:42:14If you disrupt one And nine. What are you gonna do for the other So b balance of that golf course. It makes no sense.

1:42:22No, no, no. It it it it does.

1:42:27I wish I had the full drawing. But so if you if you know the course and you remember how it plays, in theory you'd play Saddlebrook number one, you'd play Saddlebrook number two. And then you would go over. and you would go down the road and then you'd hook into some of the Palmer holes. Ultimately you'd come back And you'd play Saddlebrook number four. And that finishes nine holes a golf. If you're Going to play, call it

1:42:57the new nine holes. which is made up of some of the saldibricoles and the palmer, You would then come over here. He'd pick up Saddlebrook number four. You'd play number five coming down. You'd play a new golf hole shaped in here. Uh from that standpoint you go around the corner here and then you hook into the palmer Holes that are And make up that. And then ultimately you come back around and the new finish would be Saddlebrook

1:43:28number twenty seven. Or is it Saddlebrook number nine?

1:43:31So you Saddlebrook number one. Oh yeah. The new Saddlebrook number one. I'm not done yet.

1:43:36I know I just let my easy.

1:43:39I'll wait on that.

1:43:40Show

1:43:41you the new Saddlebrook number one? Yeah, I mean you just took out number one and nine of Saddlebrook. Where's it gonna be where's the new number one of Saddlebrook gonna

1:43:47be? So ultimately it becomes Three nines that are One through nine, ten through eighteen and Nineteen three twenty four. So where's

1:43:57the shadow book number one going to be?

1:43:58So Saddlebrook number one would still say stay as Hole number one or Saddlebrook number one.

1:44:06You just said that was gonna be part of

1:44:08the palm. What

1:44:15I'd love to have

1:44:15seen a map at some point in time. Right.

1:44:20So I know you're new into it. But again, we're looking at things, but what's gonna happen? And I'm I'm trying to look at some of the things you're saying. I don't see how you break up the Palmer costs. The way it's set? Without really doing some major shift. The saddleback was to be kept in place and it's hard to do anything else. Uh because it's just loaded with cypress around it, so you gotta flow. I'm gonna I'm gonna talk now. When I look at you say it's gonna be nice for the people to be able to go where hole number two is or number three is. Whether go to the

1:44:50practice range over there and be in a nice quiet place to go. Guess what? The practice range right now that sets out over on 54 is a nice quiet place to go practice. And beside it, the students can go practice. So why do we have to do all these changes, put all this construction in, changing the ponds, changing elevations all the way through here, going through all this construction that these people people gotta live through, why can't we just work to go improve what's there, which is a pretty good facility? Some say. And then you know, c keep

1:45:21this in place 'cause that I mean, Alma Parma decided two pretty, pretty, really good glasses. Mm-mm. Why would you go through all this? Soup, other than make money.

1:45:33So I I don't think it'll do that.

1:45:38I don't think I mean from that standpoint Uh we don't have the slides. We didn't want to take up everyone's time. I think the reality of the place is it goes back to nineteen seventies and then you have the Palmer work that occurred in the eighties. You throw in the number of years of neglect, of no money being put into the golf course to repair any of the parts out there. A golf course is like no different than your house or car. So the pieces have started to fall out. The reality shows the rounds have dropped. The

1:46:09average rounds right now are somewhere thirty six to forty thousand rounds. If you do a comparison to what other golfs have been doing, in recent years and COVID was a big boom for golf, but I have I know of other facilities that a typical eighteen hole eighteen holes in Florida have been doing anywhere from fifty to sixty thousand rounds with a limited membership. The rounds have gone down in terms of what they're able to charge from a resort standpoint. The golf course is in dire needs

1:46:39of repair. It's reached a point that you can't just put a band-aid on it. So we've got to a point now where pieces are broken, car paths are falling apart, the drainage system doesn't work, the irrigation system's on band-aids, things need to be repaired. So with that I understand that the going all the way up to the range is you know, it is quiet to a certain extent, if you want to say. I would come from a golfer standpoint that Outside of living there in the community, if I was a resort guest, I have to jump in

1:47:10my cart, I have to drive over 4,000 some feet. I find that a little disconnected. It doesn't match up to perhaps some of my other options out there. but then two, taking a step further, You have the golf course The original that goes back to the seventies, technology's changed. For some people it's a fair, fun you know, golf course experience. I think for other players it's no longer that. I think uh the conditions have suffered greatly. There's points in

1:47:40time where the Saddlebrook course has to close during the rainy season, late July to early October. So there's major work that needs to be done. And what we've advised the client to just go ahead and put things back. is more of a short-term fix. It doesn't really address some of the issues in terms of the original design or even the polymer design. as it relates to options from the green surfaces or components like that.

1:48:06Well maybe that's the wrong window. Spent a lot of time out there on the course. Uh recently I made sure I played it a few different times, especially when I heard how bad the Saddlebrook course was. So I played it right after hearing that at a public meeting. Uh went out to look and play it. It played great. Um I had played the Palmer course before that had played great. I happened to be out there Friday during the storm that was going on. And from the storm that was going on, the water that's there, it was it was raining down real hard as the storm bands were coming through. But you could see the drainage working to where it went. And by the end of day, pretty much there were some wet areas,

1:48:36obviously, but The course has drained well. Could it drain better? Absolutely. What's happened over the years I think you'll know is you can drive some drive down some of these car paths, you go look, the drain is coming in, the dirt where it's supposed to go into is higher than the car path. What's gonna happen? It needs to get cleaned out. It's it as we know it's gotta have it needs a lot of maintenance. But I don't think you just rip this whole thing apart uh changing this whole thing and going from the South Eastern part of the course. To go put the new

1:49:06range to take it from the northwestern part of the course? Is any bit of an answer? You and then you're gonna have to go. do a lot of changes to make this whole thing go and then take from a thirty six old golf course and as a golfer if you went to a place And you're gonna take let's say group go with a group of guys, you're gonna wanna play twenty seven holes to kinda mix 'em up, or would you rather have two thirty six hole or two eighteen hole courses to go play? What would you rather do?

1:49:31I want to do that. So for me I want the best golf and I would say currently what's there right now Hey it's a one time stop. as it relates to a a resort guest. With all the new developments that have come online. From that. I think it's a beautiful sight. I think the setting of you know the saddle rook course is something unique and different. I think the Palmer course, they moved a lot of dirt to a certain extent, but I feel like it becomes redundant.

1:50:01So I'd rather opt out for the best golf course, whether it's twenty seven or thirty six

1:50:09from

1:50:09that.

1:50:11My question deals with the the fact of the going from thirty six holes to twenty seven. I've heard in past that uh twenty seven holes managed properly can do as much work, I guess, as a thirty six hole golf course. Uh is that true or

1:50:30It So it's not a hundred percent in terms of matching, but it gives you the capability to get somewhere around seventy-five to eighty percent of what you were of

1:50:39the four. Okay. Yeah. My problem with golf is after I hit it I'm still standing too close to it. So I go from there. But um I think a redesign of some of that and B twenty seven holes can fit that community because I don't the resorts as we've seen them in the past, especially Saddlebrook. Um back in the day when it first started, it was uh tremendous resort, bringing a lot of people out of the Northeast, and a lot of that kind of activity coming

1:51:10to Saddlebrook has kind of died off. But I look forward to seeing a uh new beginning of something just as great as it was in the

1:51:20I just want to add one thing. Yeah. To properly fix this golf course, it's like again the comparison to when you're going to renovate your house or you know, honestly some point your car. Like the engine gets so old If you do normal maintenance on it, And you replace the tires, you do all the oil changes, you change the fan belts, you do all that. You can prolong the life. I hate to say it. The reality here is the golf courses two courses that have been s severely

1:51:51neglected over the years. And to attempt to try to fix it does require a certain amount of work. So I understand, you know, how big of the scope. But I think that's part of us is to sh be able to develop that final plan to show people what perhaps it could be. To give 'em an idea.

1:52:09All right. Well I'm going to disagree with you. Okay. Uh playing that golf course right now. Um the courses in the greens especially are fantastic shape. As good as I've seen 'em for for maybe ever. So as far as you're knocking the course right now, and just like one of the other people that owns a property right now tried to knock it earlier, I don't know why. But I'm going to tell you that course is well designed. It drains well if it's maintained. But when you have all the wet areas that have all the silt that's all grown up and never been cleaned out It doesn't get the chance to drain as quickly

1:52:40as it should. Or could. But all the stu the infrastructure's there. Now maybe it needs newer infrastructure to be put in place. Won't argue with that? Maybe it doesn't. 'Cause if the silt's in there and has it it's stuck in the pipes, then so be it. But when you have your wetland areas at higher than where the car pests are and where the wall's supposed to drain, and if you look at the maintenance, even though they've had it for eight months now, nine months, you can go right down by the first T or the tenth T at Saddlebrook. You can go look and there's pine needles all over where the drain's supposed to go. Right from the right from where the apartments out of the the condominiums are taken in through. So even

1:53:10with what they've done for maintenance hasn't been good. And when you showed that cut over from number four to five, the Power Four to five, Power Five, that replaced the sidewalk there, I don't see any pipe that was connecting the two ponds. I gotta think there was one there before.

1:53:22No, there is pipe. It's just

1:53:24Buried under? Yeah. Buried under. Thank you. All right. Any other questions?

1:53:29Um no Mr. Chairman so I'd like to keep the m meeting moving. Sure.

1:53:35Okay, well we got questions we got questions. Um I'd like to ask um if you would come back up again. Not not you, I'm sorry, um Jordan.

1:53:53June, you showed a picture of a lot of high level developments that you guys have done. Multi-story structures, et cetera. So I know looking at your website even before you show this, that you can do that type of thing. Uh Pasco County we like to get good things to come to the county. I mean we're working hard out every step of the way. Why would you not want to build one of those monumental buildings and facilities like the pavilion, as Commissioner Starkey mentioned? We got the governor here and no heat in there you can't make it go. And now you're gonna turn into a

1:54:23shed. Why wouldn't you take and put the structure like there, where like you say it doesn't get a lot of use now because of its constraints? Why wouldn't you put a nice building right there that would be right in the heart of the development that could actually feed all the stuff you want to go do? Rather than go build apartments. Out there on fifty four. That it could be bound in traffic when you get only right turnout only. That means you're going to cross over and

1:54:46and crowd create more jams. Why would you do that? So I say two things, uh Chairman, with all due respect. You see the size of this room today. If I was planning to do high-rise in the heart of the property, it would be standing room only. There'd probably be 500 people here screaming saying they don't want that. Uh people's greatest concerns are traffic. And if we build high-rise at the heart of the community, it's gonna definitively make it a much worse saddlebrook for everybody. Um so it's actually counter to everybody's interest in this room to do that. And then also for

1:55:16Yeah. The NPUD that was granted years ago here was actually to to allow a nine story building to go in. So that's in the MPD that exists right now that these people knew about when they bought. The problem they're having is everything else that you

1:55:28got to hear in just a few minutes.

1:55:37You know, sales, rents, et cetera. That um you know, while Pasco County is, you know, growing immensely and as you know we are huge believers and huge investors in Pasco County, um, we don't think it justifies nine story construction at the moment. Thank you.

1:55:55And try to wrap it up in a couple of minutes. Yep.

1:55:57I'm Barbara Wellhead. So, in wrapping it up, that is our presentation. I would ask you to bring this back. We we've offered a lot of detail that has nothing to do with Complant and Zoning. How we configure the golf course, we've been asked about it, so we provided those things. So we do need to get back and think about what it means for this comp plan amendment and why we're doing the comp plan amendment. And um if we would make available our golf course architect team to meet with you, Commissioner, and and consider your ideas. Um we're not

1:56:27saying you know, we wouldn't consider your ideas, but really has it's outside of land use and zoning about how we re we configure and how the client the investment the client wants to make in the resort and to if there was a cheaper way to do it they w they would do it. They have a reason why and he's explained why they're want to spend the money and the time to redo these courses. And I think that's it's pretty persuasive when he explains that. But You have a lot of ideas, we'd be happy to make our golf course architect available to meet with you

1:56:57and listen to your ideas based upon your experience out there. But coming back to a land use amendment, which your county attorney would say. A lot of these things are MPUD and a lot of these things have nothing to do with either. And the golf course reconfiguration I don't think has to do anything to do with land use or zoning. But coming back to why we're here, we're here because we have a res six land use that has allows seventeen hundred and seventy-nine residential units over all of this res all the resident excuse me, over all of the resort property and we're trying to

1:57:27make this a more specific plan development. for to p specifically allow for these commercial and resort uses that exist. and have been entitled in the MPUD. and to actually provide a benefit of having certainty about where things will go and where things won't go by doing a binding sub area plan that's never been done before. So I just would ask you to try to keep a focus on the comp plan and what we're trying to accomplish with the comp plan, we're already approved for residential, we're already approved for multifamily,

1:57:57we're already approved for townhomes under the comp plan exists today. So it's really the non-residential in making sure that those are recognized as uses that exist today and entitlements that exist today, because there's already a hundred thousand square feet of commercial entitled today. We added five thousand um to that to make it one oh five. So that they could in that clubhouse area where they're renovating, if they wanted to add some more retail or restaurant, we would have a specific allocation for that. that wasn't considered when the project

1:58:28was initially entitled. So with that I know we've been up here a long time. We appreciate your patience and listening. We only wanted to present this because we thought you wanted to hear it and that you were important to hear the details because you've been

1:58:43So that's why we were up here so long, not to waste your time and we appreciate it. Thank you.

1:58:53And with the commercial aspects, I mean the MPUD was granted what it was granted for everything that's there. But in it it did have the component for the nine stories. So at the time the code and this was Mm-hmm. But would you be able to do any apartments if you didn't have Red Six? And what would the density be?

1:59:11If we didn't have res six?

1:59:13If you didn't get if if we have res six now, would you be able to do any apartments out there and what would the density be?

1:59:19We can put seventeen hundred and seventy-nine units within the boundary of Saddlebrook under the Res 6 land use designation.

1:59:27Okay, with what's available for land now. With the Res Six, would you be able to put any apartments in?

1:59:32Yes.

1:59:34Captain.

1:59:38Um Barbara, uh I had a meeting with the residents. Unfortunately there was a mix-up and they came here and I was in New Port Richey. And so our unfortunately our meeting got um Shortened, but I did listen to the Planning Commission meeting and the residents had a lot of questions that I felt didn't get answered, but I know you didn't get to do the rebut. Um and you might have mentioned it here, but I was having some issues with my iPad, so I maybe didn't catch it in one of the

2:00:08presentations. Um you already touched on no one's view gets lost. But one of the questions I heard at the Planning Commission was the concern about the second entrance that would be on the new Vision Road. Does that Vision Road have a name?

2:00:24Vision Road Howard?

2:00:26Okay. We'll s we'll keep calling the vision road. That that entrance would be gated so that there would not be public access to Saddlebrook and I understand there's a gate on that road. I just wanna a answer that for the residents.

2:00:42So I'd have to put my presentation back up and I can show you on the concept plan. Actually you have it in front of you. If you look at your concept plan, It's called um MPD Concept Plan. You'll see the details about gating and where things are gated. It was important to the residents that Um the fact that they all live behind a gate is maintained after we develop area number one. So There is a gate off of the Vision Road. but it's only for the residents

2:01:12and guests within Saddlebrook to be able to to go through that gate and use that vision road. The development area one, whoever's going to develop Marion One cannot get into Saddlebrook resorts via that gate. I mean it is on that M Puty concept.

2:01:26I I see there. Um the other question that the residents uh I thought um brought up during your meeting and maybe didn't get answered and um I asked during my meeting with uh the folks is the commitment to the Saddlebrook school. I understand there is a that That that's not going away in that the the layout of the new road does not hurt the Saddleback School.

2:01:53That's right. I can have I don't know who's best from the team to to answer your question about the school and and Jordan, you wanna Yeah.

2:02:02These were questions that the residents were asking, so I just want to make sure they got it. Uh

2:02:07on the school piece, um you know the school is actually a joint venture between us and another group. It wasn't a requirement for us to buy the school. School loses money today. Uh we chose to buy the school. A lot of the other investors who were looking at the resort actually would not have bought the school and would have carved that business out. We view it as an important part of what has historically made Saddlebrook Saddlebrook, so we are committed to the school and view that as a very important part of the school. Saddlebrook.

2:02:32Does the new road hurt the school or help the school or

2:02:37it does not. The new the new road doesn't impact uh where the school facilities are from a tennis, golf, dorm, or uh the schooling the classrooms itself in any way. And we actually just renewed uh our accreditation for five years uh for the school uh this past week as well.

2:02:54I think the other the questions the other questions have been answered, but if they come up again when they're speaking, I may ask you more questions.

2:03:02We have our team ready to answer questions after we hear more from the neighbors. Thank you.

2:03:08Uh so before we get to public comment, do you guys want to take a five minute break? Yes. Okay. We're gonna take a five minute break and we'll take public comment.

2:03:18How am I

2:03:18gonna do this?

2:17:00Yeah, for

2:17:21Please have a seat.

2:17:30I said.

2:17:34But

2:17:34you need to hear

2:17:35about it. Yeah.

2:17:39All right, so we're gonna start public comment for the hearing and if we could please no applause. Let's let everybody speak. Uh there's a few groups here that have asked for extra time. We're gonna allow that as well. And then uh the clerk will go down the list one by one by one so that everybody everyone will get a chance to get hurt.

2:17:55Mr.

2:17:55Chairman, do you

2:17:56want to

2:17:56remind them about the mics?

2:17:58Oh, and please for all the commissioners and also the people up front, please speak right into the mic so everybody can hear and the clerk can pick up the minutes. Okay.

2:18:08Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the first group we have is a collective group of Jane Graham, Larry Barbetta. Joanne Barbetta and Drew Rourke for 45 minutes uh collectively. I don't know who's gonna come speak first, but when you come up, if you can give your name and address for the record, um we would appreciate it. Thank you.

2:18:29What point of order, Mr. Jimmy? What group is this representing?

2:18:33The Saddlebrook in total.

2:18:35So they're speaking for the Saddlebrook residents?

2:18:37A lot of the residents, yes.

2:18:39Is it the Saddlebrook Agent Ways, is the Saddlebrook Condos Association?

2:18:43It's a group of Saddleback residents that formed the group to represent Saddleburg.

2:18:48How many do they represent?

2:18:50Jane, how many people do you represent? Do you figure?

2:18:53Uh actually.

2:18:56At least two HOAs, Fairway and the Saddlebrook As Properties Association. And in total

2:19:03So those I'm Larry Barbetta. I live at [address removed] and I was one of the people that founded the Safe Saddleback Coalition. We were formed just because of everything going on and because we have five different HOAs, which we'll discuss, there was some fragmentation and we felt there was a need to have a more unified structure. So we created a nonprofit organization. It's open to anyone who owns property within Saddlebrook. It's also organized as a nonprofit coalition so HOAs could join. And so we've had the um

2:19:34two largest resident HOAs. Have joined the coalition and we provide education, community outreach, and legal support.

2:19:42So you're speaking in place of the other

2:19:45N the others that want to speak are going to speak, there's a couple other groups that had information they want to share as well.

2:19:51And this group's getting forty-five minutes.

2:19:52They're getting forty-five minutes, yes.

2:19:56So just to clarify, we are we represent individuals, we represent the Saddlewood Property Owners Association, which has about a hundred residents, and we represent the Fairway Village HOA, which has uh just under two hundred residences.

2:20:12For the record I've met with the applicant, I've met with this group, I've met with others as well. Um

2:20:20I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. So name and address for the record, please.

2:20:25Good afternoon, Chair and Commission. My name is Jane Graham. I'm an attorney at Sunshine City Law at 737 Main Street, Suite 100 Safety Harbor, Florida. I represent the Safe Saddlebrook Coalition, which was just discussed, a Florida nonprofit corporation dedicated to providing a common and unified voice based on the shared priorities and values that span the entire Saddlebrook community. Membership includes individual property owners and homeowner associations within

2:20:56the Saddlebrook community.

2:21:01The Coalition respectfully requests that the County Commission denies this amendment. My client would like to find a solution with Mast and has had conversations with Ms. Willheitz and Mast. But based on the incompatibility with the neighborhood, inconsistency with the comprehensive plan, numerous glaring failures to follow required procedures in the Comp Plan and the Land Development Code, and lack of data, my client cannot support today's proposal.

2:21:31This is not vacant land. This is an existing longstanding community and a legendary athletic resort with a world renowned reputation. Its unique role in Pasco County must be acknowledged and considered. As you consider This large-scale comprehensive plan amendment and future land use map text amendment, remember that this is a legislative decision. So, okay, what does that mean? It means it's a major policy decision. You're changing the land

2:22:02use on 500 plus acres. The comprehensive plan requires that you consider implications of the immediate property, also the surrounding area, and the effect.

2:22:15As a legislative decision You are looking at the policy issues and as as an elective elected representative of Pasco County, you decide how you want the county to grow and change. A comprehensive plan amendment is your policy decision where you can deny an application for just about any reason as long as it's based on some kind of rational, legitimate reason. Courts in Florida have found that re resident opposition to land use changes as long as it's motivated

2:22:45by legitimate and rational concerns, including issues with traffic, lack of compatibility with the area, and inadequate infrastructure are grounds for denial. It's also unlikely that denying this will expose the county to liability from the developer as long as it's based on legitimate reasons. The developer's actually asking you a favor to change the county's existing long-term plan for growth, and the burden is on them to make you agree.

2:23:16Future land use map amendments are not intended to occur with the same frequency as rezoning, and their effect is to look at the practical consequences of the policy shift, and so you should be looking at big picture issues as we go forward and you hear the testimony today.

2:23:36So for uh Oh, comprehensive plan amendment under the future land use appendix A1. It talks about the different standards of review and I'm not going to go through each of these in detail one by one, but these are the criteria that you need to look at, including things like anticipated demand on facilities and services. So questions about traffic are absolutely relevant to this issue, as well as EMS and

2:24:06police and other types of public services. Natural resources and natural features are also relevant. Comprehensive plan review, which I'll get to in a second. And then transportation. Now, the land use amendment application has to comply with the transportation needs assessment. We have Drew Rourke on the line today. He is our traffic engineer, and he has had a chance to evaluate the transportation needs assessment and is going to share some. Yeah.

2:24:39There are multiple inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan, and this is one point which is part of the criteria that you have to look at. There cannot be inconsistencies. There are actually more than twelve that I've isolated. A number of them include Issues related to um incompatibility and impact of the neighborhood character. Interestingly, 1.10.1 compatibility review, you should be looking at things like consideration

2:25:10of cultural features and community character. So as you'll hear, and and as you're you know just from the general history of Saddlebrook, it does have a cultural feature in the Arnold Palmer Golf Course and its long-standing history as being a resort throughout Pasco County. It's something that It's well loved and it's these are types of issues to to take into account. Also in looking at the land use features, this is of an existing land use map which shows

2:25:41that the area, I don't know if I have a pointer here, um, where development area one is is recreational, and so that's where the driving range is, and so if you're going to change that, that is a significant change to the existing land use map. I want you to really keep this one in mind. This is objective 1.2 of the future land use element: natural, historic, archaeological, and cultural resources. The county shall ensure that natural historic

2:26:11and archaeological and cultural resources are protected. And this includes things like sites. That have the integrity of location, design, materials, workmanship, and association associated with people's, with lives of persons and are significant in the past, and also distinctive characteristics. And so the example of having these unusual Arnold Palmer golf courses, as well as being an elite athletic facility. having

2:26:41people like Jennifer Capriotti and um Pete Sapras who had trained there, it it does have some historic and cultural significance. And so it's important as you look at how this area grows that you take these issues into account. and um other people will go into this much more in detail, but just as a little teaser, the Condi Nas Traveller has actually listed Um Saddlebrook is a top hundred golf resort in North America and top twenty-five tennis

2:27:11resort in the world. So it's really unique. It's it's a cultural resource that's extremely important for Bat Pasco County, a piece of athletic history.

2:27:27You also hear about residential compatibility and and transition. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, but you will hear complaints from people who live in the area of issues related to noise and concerns about the development and development area number one that could potentially impact them. Also, protection of residential neighborhoods and on-site traffic flow. Something about the on-site traffic flow that I want you to really consider is that it's not just about the traffic on State Road 54, it's also about

2:27:57the traffic jam that you will get as a log jam at the entrance of Saddlebrook, as well as the internal circulation and delivery trucks back. up based on some of these issues. So it's and and moving the the maintenance from the front to in the center. And so these are things that you should be asking yourself, how is this actually going to impact this community? um as far as the viability of the neighborhood and the overall traffic flow.

2:28:29commercial development is something to think about as well in that they are asking to add a little bit of extra commercial um space um and also just you know again the issue of minimizing noise and lighting impacts things to to keep in mind. Um One thing that I I do want to talk about as well without going too much into the weeds, is that

2:28:54The fut the you hear a lot about Well, this is actually a cleanup because it's residential six. And therefore it's you know, we're doing everyone a favor. But I want you to remember that property owners aren't entitled to the most dense classification within a land use designation. And actually if you look at residential six within the comprehensive plan, it allows recreational facilities such as a golf course.

2:29:25One last thing is in the housing element of the comp plan, you need to look at how these requests for additional residential acreage or density increases are supported by residential growth trends and I understand that you've had some discussions in the last couple of years about how are people growing within Pasco County and you know are there apartments or you know the bedroom community. These are this is going to be more information that people will provide and Big

2:29:55picture items that you should be thinking about. Is this really the way that you think residential growth trends are occurring?

2:30:04As far as other issues and I know I'm kind of taking a little bit longer than I imagined, so I'm gonna I'm gonna speed up a little bit. You should also deny this because it fails to meet state and county standards for comprehensive plan amendment. The Florida Statute for Comprehensive Plan Amendments requires that it's based on data and surveys, things like public facilities and services. And what you'll find is that there actually is no fire or EMS report in your materials.

2:30:34It hasn't been done. There also are significant flaws in the transportation needs assessment, which I will leave to Drew Rourke to further describe. But what he's come to the conclusion of is that it's actually very close to being a failing road for infrastructure, and also very close to an existing failing road. So, as far as transportation, these are things from a policy perspective to be taking. Yeah. As far as police, in your staff

2:31:05report at page six, you have a comment from Bureau Chief Chase Daniels, who actually recognized and I believe that um County Attorney Steinsnyder even re um mentioned this in the prior conversation that The Sheriff's Office is currently 64th out of 67 counties in terms of deputies per thousand citizens served, and that there is concern regarding the impact of planned developments such as multifamily developments to bring hundreds of people into a small area.

2:31:37Now, as far as legal issues as well, there's a fundamental piece of the application missing, which is the concept plan. And the section FLUA6 of PD Plan Development in the Comp Plan requires that you actually have something that's a concept plan that identifies range of uses, density, intensity, maximum uses, and the general range. Now the thing that's strange is that you have a sub-area plan in your materials. But

2:32:07that sub area plan has actually changed. Um there actually was no sub-area plan or concept plan at the September 2022 Plan and Commission meeting. There's actually no concept plan Um at the January meeting there was a sub-area plan. And then in this meeting, you'll find that this is the one from January and this is the one that you're just seeing now. And there there's, you know, there are some differences as far as the different uses, but what's

2:32:38really interesting Aside from as well as not including density and intensity, which is a requirement. It also has totally different restrictions under the notes. And so for example, in January Um it was pretty restricted as far as restricted area four, which is a golf course of how it's used. If you look at the difference now in February, it now also allows um uh vehicular parking areas and Activities

2:33:09associated with special events. And so this is actually changing the uses. This is an expansion of what had been previously looked at. Another issue that I'm kinda concerned about is number two, which says that The um

2:33:25the l maximum levels of density are going to be subject to a land use exchange matrix. Well that land use exchange matrix is not in any of the documents that I've seen on the agenda. And it appears that that's actually looking at something that would be density, which density is units per acre, and and there's actually no calculation in these documents. So I think you should be keeping this in mind. Um the other issue I do want to raise is that the neighborhood meeting, there have been a number of neighborhood

2:33:55meetings, well called neighborhood meetings, but what they actually are, it's a element of divide and conquer. because instead of having all the neighborhood meeting together there in all the variety of different Homeowner associations and sometimes it's even with different information showing. Um, you know, there's a little bit of questions circling. Oh, what did you hear? What did you hear? There's also a violation of section 305.1 of the PASCO LDC, which requires that these meetings are 30

2:34:25days before the first hearing. The one that's posted here on this public notice is actually December 28th, but you originally had the hearing in September, so that doesn't happen. But then even if they were doing it now, that was only a week before the January meeting. So you will be hearing more evidence today, and I I would like to take the opportunity to submit some of this evidence into the record when I'm done. It includes Drew Rourke's report on traffic, some historic documents relating to Saddlebrook,

2:34:56and also our presentations with photos, videos, and maths. In conclusion, you must deny because there are numerous inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan, that's at least 12 that I counted. It's unsupported by infrastructure and services, police, EMS, and traffic, and there are also significant flaws and omissions in the application and data. And just in general, it's bad public policy to dismantle Saddlebrook, which is a well-loved and elite athletic. And in its place put

2:35:27in the right-of-way, and the first time, an apartment building and something that, you know, while it could be placed somewhere else in the county and it's not that my my my client is not anti development. They want to see their area develop in the right way. We just want it to be done sensitive to the needs of the community and acknowledging the history and culture of Saddlebrook itself. So with that, I'd like to pass on Joanne Barbetta.

2:35:53Okay.

2:35:54Do you want

2:35:54us to receive and file? file? What if was you want to hand that out to

2:35:57us?

2:36:01Uh that'll be after sure.

2:36:03May I ask her may I ask her a question?

2:36:05Sure.

2:36:05Um it's just that I just looked and you said that Saddlebrook was in the top one hundred golf courses, was that the world or the US?

2:36:13I think I'll have to go back. I think it's a good idea.

2:36:17Okay. Well I mean that was a document that had been pulled up, so I mean that's

2:36:23Do you know what the last time it was ranked in one of the top 100?

2:36:28I mean I can

2:36:29That's okay.

2:36:30I I I just want to I mean the document, yeah. Thank you. I mean I I think it you know it's a polyclure link. Yeah. All right. So may I um put this in?

2:36:38Do you have a motion? Receipt and file?

2:36:41Yes. I'll make motion. Second.

2:36:42All in favor say aye. Aye.

2:36:44Aye.

2:36:44Pass them to the clerk and she'll pass them out. Okay.

2:36:52Okay, so Joanne uh Barbetta if you want to come to the podium and state your name and address for the record.

2:36:59Hello, I am Joanne Barbetta and I live at [address removed]. Ten years ago we came to Saddlebrook when our daughter had dreams of training at a tennis academy. The tennis drew us in, but the wonderful people, the natural beauty, and the abundant wildlife made us stay. It seems like my age.

2:37:22Could we pause their time? Just while we do this.

2:37:29And

2:38:51All right, go ahead. Now this historic and world-renowned resort is at risk of being diminished by mass development plans. Their plans are incom incompatible with this community's character and charm and open and green space and sense of arrival which all golf and tennis resorts have. Mass plans will increase commute times and traffic congestion while not being a significant job creator. You can see that Saddlebrook is simply spectacular. The expansive and dense

2:39:21collection of trees, the winding roads, the spacious driving range. were all thoughtfully laid out at a scale not seen in Pasco County and beyond. The homes are spaced far apart with a lot of privacy and large open spaces. The peacefulness and serenity of that can't be overstated. The entryway welcomes visitors and reminds them to slow down and enjoy what nature and recreation have to offer. Those who designed the entryway took great care to create

2:39:51this beautiful environment. Back in 1979, its developers required a road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest. Top golf and country clubs all share that design sense style. Just look at the beautiful sense of arrival at PGA National Resort in Palm Beach Gardens.

2:40:22Um motion to receive and file.

2:40:25We are good.

2:40:32They all and also the Waldorf Astoria, Bonnet Creek Resort in Orlando, and Tennis Resorts in at Rancho Valencia in California, they all share that wonderful sense of arrival as you drive in. Indeed, some developers make this their priority. Those who recently bought the scenic Cabot Citrus Farms resort up the road strive to improve the overall playing experience and bring out the best of the picturesque property which weaves through towering sand pines,

2:41:03palmetto trees, and ancient moss-covered oaks. Clearly their first order of business was not to destroy the entryway by erecting huge multifamily apartments. Yes, they're adding some housing, but it's in the form of sm small modest cottages. How in the world would apartment buildings be compatible with the lush, welcoming atmosphere inside the resort? Mass boasts over and over about building a town center, but we already have a sense of community. A

2:41:33large group of us used to get together weekly, play tennis, and have drinks and dinner at Dempsey's. We would drive home in our golf carts, no need to leave our community, no need to get in the car and drive. We have a school here into which golf and tennis students walk or bike. There's a shared interest in athletic excellence where we regularly interact with the best elite athletes in the world. I am an avid tennis player and often stand close by watching the world's best Practice and train. It

2:42:04was a wonderful opportunity for our daughter too. Imagine being a young player and running into John Isner by by the training room or feeling proud that your primary tennis coach was uh used to train Pete Sampras. When a developer comes in and peddles nostalgia and town center dreams, but in reality are selling high-density apartments and commercial space, it feels disrespectful. Saddlebrook values peace and quiet. Saddlebrook at night is actually

2:42:34very dark and quiet. How in the world would a sea of cars and apartment buildings be compatible with this? Mass creates issues of security and incompatibility and then turns around and tries to solve the problems they created by essentially walling us off from each other. Two separate worlds, divided by a chain link fence, key fobs and gates. I'm hard pressed to think of anything less compatible. And I don't have to tell anyone in the room about all the uh proliferation

2:43:05of apartment buildings around us. We see them everywhere. Mass proposal for their apartments would dwarf all of these. Mast wants to build four hundred and sixty five units in area one. The the story apartments out east, which a lot of us has seen, is only 320 units. The apartments by the outlet mall, the MAVA apartments, are supposed to be 260 units. Again, 465 units is huge. And what about the congestion and commute

2:43:35times? Pasco County has one of the longest commute times in Tampa Bay and one of the longest in the state. Seventy percent of employed Pasco residents worked somewhere else. We are in the southern end of Pasco County and building more apartments so close to I-75 would be a natural draw for those wanting to live in a desirable area but work somewhere else. If you build it, they will come, but they will drive to another county for work. All of this degradation to Saddlebrook

2:44:06might be forgiven, I suppose, if there was significant job creation because of it. But that is not a case. In in the Zoom, a September Zoom call, Mass representatives said, we are thinking this is meant to be some small office space, like a coffee shop, ice cream shop, and things like that. It is not meant to be a major employer. If one of the objectives is economic contribution and job creation, focusing on making repairs and improvements at the resort and the resort core

2:44:36will likely create far more jobs. Don't we value being able to live in interesting and inspiring places, even along busy roads like State Road 54, and maybe because of those busy roads? Protecting these wonderful spaces reminds us that Pasco County is a place of beauty. If we don't protect these things, a small group of developers will have an outsized role in shaping our environment and our county. Our places become their visions. Is that what we

2:45:06want our legacy to be? In sum, we don't need hundreds of apartments on this property. What we need is to put our efforts, resources, and creativity into proving what improving what we already have. Saddlebrook is a gem and needs to be treated that way. I respectfully implore you to protect that gem by denying mass application. Thank you.

2:45:34Now uh Larry Barbetta will be speaking.

2:45:55And Larry, name and address for the record?

2:45:59Hello Chairman. Hello, Commissioners. My name is Larry Barbetta. I live at [address removed]. It's very nice to see you all and very nice to meet you, Councilor.

2:46:11We are Working through technical difficulties. Joanne's presentation was not Joanne's presentation, so She improvised pretty well.

2:46:22Yes, yes. Okay. Now Let me ask a technical question pointer here. The middle button. Okay. And then forward and back. Because the middle button's forward? Okay. Multipurpose. Okay, well thank you. Um I am here uh as a resident of Pasco County, as my wife mentioned. We've lived here about a decade. Um we love our community and we are here to Make sure that anything that's done in

2:46:53the development and redevelopment of our community is consistent with the values, heritage, and builds on the legacy of Saddlebrook. So we've talked about the coalition a bit. I think you know the gist of it. is we are a nonprofit organization that was formed in response. I won't repeat everything that I said earlier. uh to what's going on. Um what I would say is that our values are the

2:47:18unified across all of Saddlebrook. We try to protect the value of all our property owners. We want to maintain our quality of life. We want to restore and work with a company that's gonna help restore the luster and heritage of Saddlebrook. That's going to build on the incredible legacy that it has and protect and preserve its natural beauty and wildlife. And this is Saddleburg, as many of you know.

2:47:46Okay. A little more technically. Lots of talk about HOAs, XYZs. Here is a geographic map. Of Saddlebrook, What you see are the different color codes are the different HOAs in here. So as you can imagine, one of the challenges is that there's because the community was built over time, there are five different HOAs. the coalition is open to any resident in all of these HOAs. We have members from all of these HOAs as

2:48:16individuals. And we have the one in red, Saddlebrook, You see the red? Which is about uh like I said, uh around two hundred homes just under and their residence is important to note. The Saddlebrook POA in Blue. Just under a hundred homes. Again, these are residents that live here. And own. They're not rental units.

2:48:40No, we have our bylaws prohibit it now.

2:48:42Oh, I can rent I'll s there they are.

2:48:48Okay, there are there are a few in there, but where you see them is more in Lakeside, which has different rules, which is part of the Green Association. See the green ones? And that's part of the con or resort condo. An important difference here without I mean everyone has There's values that span whether you're an owner, resident, or you're an investor. The condotel is the room product at Saddleburg. So they have to do that. an investment mindset pr principally. And what's um anyway,

2:49:18we've had some initial communications with MAST. We are open to that. The coalition is not anti-development. We want Saddleburk enhanced, and we're not anti-Mast. We just want it done in a way that again adds to what makes Saddleburke so special.

2:49:35Okay. So if we go back to the right-of- Saddlebrook is an interesting history, many of you know it, I won't dwell on it, but from the beginning the intent was to create a world class resort and of course play upon the natural beauty of this county and bolstered by its incredible reputation for athletics.

2:49:58Certainly the resort Is aged. And needs attention. We don't deny that. But we also believe that we need to maintain what makes it so unique and special and valuable. Okay, so this is the core. And Saudiberg's kind of an interesting synergistic world. And when you start picking apart the pieces, It creates consequences. So the resort core is where we have the pools, all the condotel units, etc. We

2:50:29have, as you know, two Arnold Palmer golf courses, which again is very special and unique. Certainly, again, like many things in need of attention. I'm not a golf expert, I will not speak to that. Other than I know that Many of the homes are built around the golf course and courses and designed to feature those views. Um we certainly have concerns. In spite of what was said, and we'll get into that in a little bit, we need assurances

2:50:59that golf course views are golf course views. Because see we bought here with a reason. We knew what our properties were, we knew what this community was, we knew what the land use rights were. We know what you could or couldn't do in our backyard. You're being asked to consider things that impact that and could change that.

2:51:20As you see, that's a very lovely house at Saddlebrook, but that's one on the golf course. This is the tennis area. The tennis area has incredible history. These are not just courts. That would be like saying, you know, where a famous musician first played is just a, you know, studio. Okay, this is what it should look like. It is not looked like that and not even before masked. I'm not throwing them

2:51:50under the bus on this, but it has been ten months to a year and there's been progress, but certainly there needs more and I'm sure they would acknowledge that as well. Okay? But this is an area that's also covered by some of the changes. So we need to talk about that. Okay. As I mentioned, about famous people. I don't know if you're into tennis, as you can see my wife is. Sh she taught me, so I'm trying to get better. Um long way to go. But this is the who's

2:52:20who, and these are people that train there as children. They continue to have a connection with this place. They went to school there. Jennifer Capriati, the Bryan Brothers, Pete Sampras, Martina Hingis, John Isner, Okay. And again, there's many that still own homes there. There's also many current day players that have Are on to doing incredible things, which I'll speak of shortly. So this is an incredible thing. Also in golf, like we said, we draw people because

2:52:51of the Palmer golf courses. What's interesting and kind of subtle is these this athletic excellence is the magnet that draws people. It draws children to come and train, like our daughter did. It draws adult groups to come. It draws businesses. For golf, tennis, etc. So we need a resort product that can house that and that can service it in an appropriate way. And that's why again, as that is declined, we have a lot of challenges.

2:53:21Okay? It has to work together, it has to be synergistic. It can't be picked apart.

2:53:30These are just some of the golfers. Keegan Bradley, PGA Rookie of the Year back in the day, PGA champion. Okay. Saddleburg doesn't only have yesterday. Saddleburn. Has more than a past, it has a present. And hopefully together we can make sure it has a future. We'll get to that in a minute. But okay, young man on the right, national junior champion, Carl Willis, attends Stanford University now, trained at Saddleburgh, went to school there, golf academy. Wonderful

2:54:00young man. Heck of a player. You should know this person. This is Jennifer Capriotti. Came to Saddleburg at 13 years old. By the way, she has a letter in here asking. That you look at this carefully and I think specifically asking that because it concerns that you consider denying the plan as proposed. Jennifer lives there still.

2:54:23Pete Sampras trained there. Alvaro was his coach. Alro is my daughter's coach. One of the best guys in the world. Andy Roddick, graduate of Saddleburg Prep Academy. The Bryan Brothers trained there for years.

2:54:41And again, let's talk present on the left, Gabriela Debrowski. Gabby has won multiple Grand Slams and doubles from Canada. She too, a graduate of Saddlebrook Prep Academy, and is a homeowner in Saddlebrook. And neighbor to Dave and Allison.

2:55:01This is Luisa Stefani. Louise and her family came to Saddleburgh when she was an eighth grader. This is her winning. The first medal antennas for Brazil at the last Olympics. Her partner was seated two hundred and ninety-eight in the world. And they upset some of the best teams. This is her on the left. Last week she just won the Australian Open Mix Doubles Grand Slam Championship. Okay. She ha she and her family have a place at Saddleburg. Okay? So

2:55:31we don't just have a past. We have a very much a now. I could go on and on. There's incredible depth that's That's there and we need to preserve and protect that. That is so unique. You can't get that. This is not a golf course, it's not some Muni course, and it's not a country club. For tennis. Okay. So now here we go. This is Ground zero. The driving range. Okay? It looks like a driving range and it is a driving range. The

2:56:02plans are to make that something very different. Okay? But the driving range serves a multitude of purposes at Saddlebrook. So when we do this And I need to break for a moment. I'm really confused. Okay, I'm up kinda late, just like some of our other friends here. We're spending our personal money for lawyers. And we're looking at plans and then we come here today and there's different ones. Okay?

2:56:33I don't understand how that's fair. I don't This is the plan that's there. Where's the driving range? Where's Waldo? He's not there. And then today he is. Now we've seen plans before. They were kind enough to share some plans with us about a week ago where the driving range was there, but then when this is filed, this is what's on the agenda. There is no driving range definition. A bunch of those slides with all due respect are not in the agenda packet. How am I supposed to know what I'm Gonna

2:57:04comment on. Okay. So and and if you don't think it matters, my eighty-some-year-old parents, we bought them a cute little house on the fairway. Okay. They want to look at a fair way.

2:57:19They don't want to guess where the driving range is going to be. Okay? So this still and this is the one I I guess and uh you know again I'm not a lawyer, I'm just a lay person, but I mean I d I don't understand they said that the P D sub-area plan is binding. This is a P I think this is the P D sub-area plan. Well, where's the where's the driving range? So is that not binding? This is binding. That's why that's what I'm being told. Please

2:57:49someone later correct me if I'm wrong. So you see, it's a domino effect. And the driving range is the domino effect. It's the first domino. Because with that, what happens is everything changes.

2:58:05And as Jane Graham pointed out, The wording that's supposed to protect the people with the golf course views How does this say I'm gonna always have a golf course view? It says I could have a view of a vehicular parking area. That's exactly what it says. I can read. Okay. It says I could have, you know, player based food and beverage. It says I could have a special events area associated with the operations. Okay, that is not that's

2:58:36not a guarantee of a golf course view. And that again impacts. What we bought. We bought with certain expectations. And we made our investments that way. Now, the tennis area, the courts I showed you. And I and Jordan We and I even discussed this the other day. If the intent is to say it's gonna be at least 20 tennis courts, why does it say that it's 20 quote courts, which may be used as tennis,

2:59:06pickleball, pedell, whatever? Those are lovely sports, don't get me wrong. But also look what it says. Additional surface parking. And we need parking down there. That's a tough area to park, okay? If you follow this to the letter, you can fit four pickleball courts on a tennis court. You could end up with The physical area of five tennis courts Okay, and a bunch of parking. Okay? That's a lot different than where Grand Slam champions are born and raised. Okay, and that has a huge difference.

2:59:37And and I'm not accusing anyone of evil intent, but we need protection. These are plans that you're voting on that, as I understand, they go up, they go. I mean, this is the time. If we have a problem, we need to fix this.

2:59:52Okay. Also we have an issue here. This is the Area One stuff. I'm not gonna go nuts because other people are gonna discuss this. But what's going to happen here is everything that's there has to get pushed somewhere. Okay, there are we're not talking just cart barns. We're talking massive maintenance things. There's giant fuel tanks, there's chemicals to run the golf course. There is also a huge laundry facility up there. State-of-the-art equipment, a little old but very powerful,

3:00:23and does a great job. There's also a full storage area. It's the equivalent of like a giant Sam's Club. Because remember, there's five

3:00:32Condo tells. So, what's gonna happen if your refrigerator breaks? You're gonna call it up and with the supply chain issues, wait seven months? No, they store them. So there's a whole bunch of things that are happening there, and it's gonna create a strain on the rest of the resort. We have to figure out where those are. And again, we haven't had that detail. And I don't care if we call it an MPUD or this, that, the other thing. If you can't tell me where you're gonna Put like all of the gas tanks and all the chemicals, and we don't know. That's not, that's that doesn't strike

3:01:02me as the spirit of what Pasco County wants. Okay, so where are we now?

3:01:11We were s I thought in the last Planning Commission hearing there was a r request for greater detail. But what we saw was almost the same thing. And then today now we see the driving range again. It seems that things are shifting every day. Every moment. I'm not seeing a comprehensive plan for a sustainable, viable resort and to take it back to its you know original state and standing. So

3:01:42is this really the right thing to do? For what really is a true landmark. You can't replace history. You can build a new golf course. But you can't Create history. You can build a tennis court. You can't create history. We have history. I believe And the vast majority of our community believes, and I know the coalition believes, that Saddleburg deserves better. We heard some very interesting information today. From the David Engel. It

3:02:14seems that there might be things that are better for the county. than a bunch of apartment buildings that create the domino effect. Okay? And I think Pasco County deserves better. I think we all deserve having more clarity and more information on what we're doing because your your actions have Significant consequences for everyone at Saddlebrook, all of the residents and owners there. So we respectfully ask you to deny the plan. We ask you to help us in our quest to save what's

3:02:44best about Saddlebrook. Thank you for your time.

3:02:47Okay.

3:02:54There was Drew Rourke on the line?

3:02:56Yeah, I think is I Drew Rourke is is on the line. Uh Drew, can you hear us? Can can he patch be patched in?

3:03:06Mr.

3:03:06Rourke, are you there?

3:03:10We can hear you. Um name and address for the record, thank you.

3:03:17Drew Rourke with Alex Rourke Engineering 2017, Jimmy Swift Hollow, Tallahassee, Florida. First I'd like to

3:03:27Say thank you to the commissioners for allowing me to participate in this meeting virtually. So what we did for this is we took a look at the needs assessment that was mentioned by Ms. Graham. for this proposed development. And our review simply compares the traffic analysis to the rules outlined by the county and compared it to the industry standards for traffic engineering. We did a few we did find a few issues uh with the analysis and

3:03:57they're outlined in the documents I think have been provided to you. So we'll get right to it and I'm gonna summarize them very quickly. Um I just wanted to note that these comments are limited to the needs assessment only and not to any other traffic analyses like the Timing and phasing analysis, which is separate. So one point to keep in mind and with this analysis is that one of the segments uh that was included in the study study area limits, the segment of State Road fifty four from

3:04:29In this analysis, without any changes or any edits uh the way it sits today, it shows that it's within one point six percent of its capacity, which is very, very close to failing. The people's line is is projected to be five thousand three hundred and five vehicles per day. Well excuse me, grower. Uh and the capacity is five thousand three hundred ninety. So The point of that is to say that the accuracy of this analysis is very important to be able to make the conclusion that they're making

3:04:59with confidence. The primary issues that we noted in the analysis are The first one is the study area itself. The study area was established in the methodology statement agreement with Pasco County.

3:05:12Mm-hmm.

3:05:14And it includes state road fifty four from County Road five eighty one to Curley Road. Study this study area really is not reasonable for development of this size. There's no logical basis that was provided for the establishment of how uh of the study area itself. In the in the Pasco County Comp Plan amendment application addressing transportation, it doesn't specifically address the process for establishing a study area. However, It does state that, quote, each application will be required to demonstrate that the levels of service standards

3:05:44are met or will be met concurrent with the impacts of the development. So I think it's unreasonable to assume that the project traffic from a development of this size, that Saddlebrook, would not have significant traffic on the development of State Road 54, for example, west of County Road 581 to a major principal arterial like I-75. So that including the segment from five eighty one to seventy five and and other segments. Uh I'm not sure that this application is demonstrating

3:06:14the level service standards are being met.

3:06:19I'd also note that the next segment of fifty-four, which outside of the study area, which is five eighty one to seventy five. As well as the next segment of County Route fifty four beyond seventy five. Excuse me. are showing as failing in the 2045 LRTP. It's uh the level service is failing without the addition of this additional traffic. The next issue was related to the distribution that was used. And I apologize for getting very technical, but I'm trying to explain it without Too

3:06:49many details and taking too much time, but The traffic distribution was 65% to the west and 35% to the east. Again, no explanation of how they came up with it, other than it states the distribution of the project traffic was based on the existing traffic development patterns in the vicinity of the project. However, attorney movement count that was collected by the application.

3:07:09Hey Drew, we we can't hear you so well. Can you try to go a little closer to the mic?

3:07:16Sure. How's that?

3:07:20Yeah, that's better.

3:07:21Okay.

3:07:25The distribution showed sixty five percent to the west and thirty five percent to the east. Uh It it stated in the report they came up with that distribution based on the existing traffic travel patterns, traffic patterns and development patterns in the in the vicinity of the project. However, there's a turning movement count which is an actual count. Um at Saddlebrook Way in fifty four that shows that percentage in the PM peak hour, which is when the study area or the study analysis period was. is actually seventy-two percent to the west and twenty-eight percent

3:07:55to the east. Uh so that basically means that more of the project traffic should have been distributed to the west, which is where the segments of concern are. That segment is close to being over capacity and the and the other segment that is over capacity. Create an issue here.

3:08:13There are a couple of process issues. Uh I won't get into too much detail about, but the process that was used overall. Uh basically um Allows for a lot of room for error. And again, kind of going back to that point about how the segments being so close to being over capacity, you need to be pretty accurate in your analysis. Be able to say with confidence that you're not Uh over capacity. Um I I provide those and they they provide it to Mass, their traffic engineer to, you know If

3:08:44they would like to use that, I think would they would be able to have much more confidence if they use that process. It's not overly onerous on the applicant either. So Uh you know, it's just throwing it out there. There are also a couple of Uh trip generation calculation issues that are also summarized is a five thousand square foot high turnover sit-down restaurant. which the land use that they use for that is similar to like a Chili's or an Applebee's restaurant. Uh No, it I believe it's included and proposed to be developed in and uh

3:09:15Uh area three, which is over a mile from the Saddlebrook development. The issue is They included something called pass by reduction, which basically means If you're driving down the road and you decide to stop into some area and and then say you're coming home from work and you're gonna stop at a gas station along the way. The gas station didn't actually create a new trip, you were already on that road. So that's called pass-by. So they don't have to add that traffic. They get that reduction. In

3:09:45this case, with this sit down, imagine a Chili's, for example, being over a mile away from that road. Uh that's not exactly a pass by. There's some reductions that they took they're probably shouldn't have taken. Um there's a hotel description Uh in the description, they use the land use code 330, which is resort hotel. There's another land use code for hotel, which is 310. Uh there's um Finally, I'm you know I'm just not sure if this is correct or not, but there's land use code five forty.

3:10:15They use for the uh tennis and golf academy, uh but that land use is for a community college. So Whether or not that's appropriate is questionable. So Bottom line is is, you know, I I believe that this study uh needs to be revised, including these edits that I've mentioned, for to be able to make a claim that it there's no impact.

3:10:38Thanks so much. So this concludes our presentation. Um and now I know there will be others from the public who'd like to speak. Thank you very much for giving us so much time.

3:10:49Quick question. Um this it says the study was done August of twenty-two. Um That's like not prime time peak seasons from January to March. Any effect on the traffic?

3:11:02Drew, are you still there?

3:11:05Yeah, there's no impact because uh trip generation uh they didn't use actual counts, they used trip generation uh estimates which are not seasonal. And the distributions um Could potentially be affected a little bit, but uh again, the distribution they use probably it needs to increase based on the the time of the count that they took already. It's one of my comments.

3:11:29All right. And with the I don't think I get a chance to look at it because w when did you ask for this study? How long ago?

3:11:35Well I actually did a public records request for the study in December. I was provided a response and wasn't given a copy. I was given the methodology document. This actually this study isn't even in your agenda. I was only given it last week from MEST, from Barbara Wilhite, and we appreciate that them them sharing it with us. But this hasn't been open in the public or reviewed. And the Planning Commission hadn't seen it either, to my knowledge.

3:12:00Okay. So a quick question if you can answer it. So if we're gonna use that vision road to the side. People are gonna take a right turn only. Yeah. What's that gonna do with the intersection of Saddlebrook itself, especially if most of the people there are gonna wanna head to the west?

3:12:24Yeah,

3:12:25yeah. Um That will be an issue. My understanding is this at this stage only the needs assessment is being evaluated. That issue is covered in the access management piece, which is in actually in this project is embedded in the timing and phasing analysis. So we have recognized that issue. We did not comment here uh because it's not currently being analyzed. That that will s be a significant issue, however. They would have to weave over three lanes to get over into the

3:12:55left one lane and make a U-turn. It could create some safety issues and uh other issues.

3:13:03Thank you.

3:13:07Thank you very much. Okay. Uh

3:13:08question? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For clarity Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This traffic study was completed by Whom? Which party?

3:13:20So Drew Rourke works for the Save Saddlebrook Coalition and he analyzed the needs assessment which was look which was done by Mast.

3:13:34And what are his qualifications?

3:13:37We've included his resume in the in the packet and I don't know if Drew if you would like to quickly speak to your um your resume and your qualifications.

3:13:52was based upon the mass project formula.

3:14:01Um what I did was I reviewed their study and made comments on everything, including their methodology. Based on industry standards and the rules, uh Pasco County L D C rules.

3:14:19Thank you. So

3:14:22I guess my c this next question would be for our staff is how's this compare to

3:14:29The

3:14:29county's findings. Okay. Mr. Chairman M I would ask the Commissioner Oakley.

3:14:39Okay.

3:14:39Just so that we get public coming.

3:14:41Sure. Commissioner Oakley? The new vision road that's gonna come in there is gonna affect that driving range as it is. So some of those buildings are gonna be affected by our vision road and as if I'm not mistaken, that vision road doesn't it have uh Well it ha it'll have lights and actually go across Fitchvor on to the north. Well why don't we let the staff address that left afterward. So that uh that affects the traffic in that area also? It's not happening right away, but we'll let staff address it a bit later. But a subvision road is gonna happen, so

3:15:11Oh I thought that developer that has that corner starting.

3:15:14Okay. Are you done with your comments at this point? Yes, yeah, yeah. Thank

3:15:18you very much.

3:15:18Okay.

3:15:20Okay, so um the next one I have is Julie Pines and I believe you gave her twelve minutes. Right,

3:15:25she's speaking for

3:15:27I i I don't have what's the list does not say who she is speaking for, so she'll have to let us know.

3:15:32Um and actually if we may, can we switch to have Patrick Hogan first and then Julie Pines?

3:15:37Sure.

3:15:40So I have Patrick and Sherry Hogan listed for ten minutes collectively. And so Mr. Hogan, when you come, can you give your name and address for the record? Thank you. Okay.

3:15:50My name's Pat Hogan. I'm at uh [address removed].

3:15:59Uh

3:16:01Good afternoon. Uh thanks for uh giving us the chance to uh make some comments. I'm a resident of uh Saddlebrook. I'm also a member of the Save Saddlebrook Coalition. I'm also a member of the Board of Directors of the Fairway Association. That's one of the five HOAs that Larry had outlined before. And Fairway Association is a supporting HOA member of the coalition. I'm here today to talk to you about golf at Saddlebrook and the impact of mass bills changes

3:16:32on golf there. Currently we have two golf courses, the Palmer Palmer Courses. The Palmer name carries enormous weight in gulf. There's an expectation of a certain level of play at a at a Palmer course. Many websites including Tea Times USA, Golf Now, Golf Pass, Golf Advisor, Golf Pack Travel, reference the Palmer courses in their advertising of Saddlebrook. even masked on their Saddlebrook website. invites

3:17:02you to, and I quote, experience our two legendary Arnold Palmer golf courses. The Palmer name helps her property value. That's the main reason why my wife Sherry and I sold our Saddleburgh Cluster home that we had bought in 2019. and we bought a larger single family home with views of pools 12, 13, and 14 on the Palmer Course. We felt good about this increased investment. in the larger home as a resort have been sold and

3:17:34Uh there was positive news about the new owner's plans for upgrading resort. In our mind we didn't just buy a home with a golf course view, we bought a home with a Palmer golf course view.

3:17:46We had the expectation that the golf courses were and would continue to to be viable golf courses, attracting visitors from around the world as they had previously. Mast had plans to use their words from early media releases and presentations, and I heard the statement today again to restore Saddlebrook to its former grandeur. All of this could change depending on your decision today.

3:18:12and further your decisions in the coming months. Depending on whether you agree with Mass Vision for adding more apartment buildings to an already busy corridor, It also depends on whether you agree with Mass's vision for Saddlebrook. And further, if you believe they'll actually spend the money they say they will to restore Saddlebrook to the shining gem that it was. Mass plans are to pave over and develop the driving range. And that's why we're all here today really, is because of the driving range.

3:18:43Saddleburg property owners have reasonable investment backed expectations that we have bought into a legendary golf, tennis, and athletic resort community. However Mass plants care more about a quick buck to build apartments and a small shopping area instead of making thoughtful improvements. to the interior saddle but consistent with its character. The current mass plan calls for a course redesign down to twenty-seven holes. We still don't have any details. We don't have any drawings. We haven't seen anything.

3:19:14One thing that is certain is that the golf experience at Saddlebrook will never be the same and will never attract the same tourism that it did in the past.

3:19:23Mm-hmm.

3:19:24The golf courses are now eighteen hole courses. The holes flow together. On the Palmer course, eighteen holes are all consecutive. The tenth hole you cross Kim Carey Road It's right after the ninth hole. The halfway house, which hasn't been opened for years, was opened by Mass last spring for a short period of time, but now it's closed again. It also houses the only public restrooms on that part of the Palmer Course. Both restrooms are less than great. and in dire need of upgrading. On the

3:19:54Saddlebook course, the front and back nines are divided by the resort area, which gives you a chance to grab a beer in between the nines, soft drink, on your way to the back nine. The two courses couldn't be more different. Most holes in the Tatalbrook course are lined with cypress tree wetlands on both sides of the fairways. The greens, while not perfect, have improved and are now very playable. The Palmer course is far more wide open. There factors lots of room for stray shots, there's lots of water, but there are big wide

3:20:24open fairways that make even the most offline shot playable without a penalty. I tell you this because the final layout for the eighteen holes will inevitably lead to a combination of the two courses. This is sure to give the courses the feel of a good municipal course. Substandard to Palmer. Mass tells us they've hired Reen Jones, Garfa architects to rework the layout of the golf courses. Reese Jones is very reputable, but they're not Arnold

3:20:55Palmer, and we will no longer have Palmer courses. We will have three nine hole courses. There will no longer be an eighteen hole course at Saddlebok. How do you track? tournaments and tourists without an eighteen hole golf course to offer. There are more than 1,100 golf courses in the state of Florida. I did a quick Google search and what I searched was 27 whole golf courses in Florida. Less than fifty turned up. If twenty seven holes is

3:21:25such a great option, why aren't there more of them? Mast in their presentation has made strong statements about the condition of the courses and the amount of money that it will take to make the necessary improvements. Specifically, they also stated that the Saddlebok course is un unplayable in several months in the in the summer rainy season. I personally played the courses, yeah. Yes, they can be wet. It's car path only, but we still played the courses. They were playable. There are some drainage issues. I took some photos

3:21:55recently that show some of the chronic wet areas on the golf course. This is uh this is Hall One in Saddlebrook. And you could oh hang on, that's not it. That's not it. Go back.

3:22:10Good one.

3:22:11Yeah, let me let me do it. Oh no, either.

3:22:13Just the since forward.

3:22:14Forward back, okay.

3:22:19This is hole one in Palmer. And there's a chronic wet area. You can see the post down near the center there. If you have a look at the topography of the uh of the fairway The right side is about two feet higher than where the pond is. The only thing you need there is a is a working drain and you don't have a you don't have a wet area. This is the shot looking back at the green. Looking back the other way gives you better idea of the the layout of the hole. Here's another one. This is uh hole three and on uh Saddlebrook. There's a wet area

3:22:49right here, there's a pond right there. It's not hard to figure out what the problem is there again, there's not a good working drain there. This is uh Hole 11 on Saddlebrook. Same idea between where I'm standing taking this picture and the green. There's a there's often a wet area just ahead of ahead of me where I'm standing. There's a pond on the left. Actually there's two ponds on the left. Again, working drains would fix the area. This is uh hole 15. Same thing here. The pond is on the right in this case. There's

3:23:19a chronic wet area there just before you get to the bunkers. Same problem with the drains. They could be fixed. In addition to this, here there's some silted in and overgrown ponds that affect their ability to drain the fairways. This is Saddlebrook 1. You can see the uh the condition of the pond on the left. And then here's and further down the the fairway you'll see the condition of uh just before the green of the pond there you can see how it's overgrown. Here's Palmer 10. That's

3:23:49the pond there. Palmer ten. Here's Saddlebrook, Ken, with all the needles and everything around there overgrown. You can barely see the drain there. All conditions that can be corrected with some matrix. Yeah,

3:24:01hang on that picture right there. If you look at the three cypress trees then to the right, you see the drain that's there. That's what I was talking about number ten. That thing is covered with with the over the grate with pine needles, but sitting there for over eight months.

3:24:16Uh that was Palmer her uh saddlebook ten, wasn't it? So there's some other work that's being going that's been ongoing at at uh at Saddlebrook and this is referenced earlier today. This is uh where the chart path was repaired. But the drain was never put back up and there's been pylons there for months.

3:24:35Alright, so Mr. Jones said earlier there was a pipe that was replaced. There's no pipe there, is it? Well

3:24:39there's no pipe there that I ever saw.

3:24:43Hole number going into hole number five.

3:24:45Yeah.

3:24:47Nothing there. They replace the sidewalk, there's two ponds connecting, then it will put a pipe in the place. Good. Thank you.

3:24:55This is on uh the eighteenth the 18th hole and uh I want to call your attention to the area on the right. I just put this in for context and you see there's a drain just laying there, it's taken apart, and hasn't been fixed. The last two pictures, uh one on the left is uh is uh of um Palmer 11 and the one on the right is of uh Palmer 12. Those uh holes have been ongoing for many, many months. I show these pictures to illustrate that the courses need work, but not to

3:25:25the point that we need to tear them up. They are fixable, they can be restored to the quality golf courses they were in the past. Over the past few months, my HOA Fairway has had five public meetings with MAST. All of the plans presented by Mass show the driving range being paved over and there are detailed plans for them on the maps. There's also detailed plans of area two. These two areas have been consistent in every presentation they're always there. All other areas

3:25:56are in a state of constant flux. There's no plan. Details change constantly. The plan is being developed on the fly. And no plan all plants and all the new plans are hastily put together. Few graphic illustrations, marked up maps, and a few details. We're being asked to buy in and trust that they will invest in restoring the resort, yet there are no concrete plans. One more paragraph. I just come back to my earlier point. All of this is so Mass can

3:26:26pave over the driving range and make millions from a high density apartment development. All of that without a binding commitment to Saddlebrook. This development helps one party and one party only, and that's masked. There is nothing in it for us as residents or Pasco County taxpayers. I ask you to save our two golf courses at Saddlebrook. I ask you to reject Mass application. Thank you.

3:26:54Okay. Uh thank you Mr. Hogan. I had Sherry Hogan signed up with you and then also signed up separately as she s I

3:27:00this is this is a very unusual situation, but I've spoken for my wife this time.

3:27:07Well thank you.

3:27:11Okay, so then I have Julie Pi uh Pyrnes. Pyrnes, I think is how you say her name. Um And I have her for twelve minutes.

3:27:20I wouldn't dare do that.

3:27:23Hi guys, I've got my trusty assistants with me, brought my kids. Um they're here for Civics lesson two. They were here for the planning commission uh last month. So they're here just to listen and learn. Um and my husband will run the uh slideshow. So name and address for the record. Okay, sorry, I'm at [address removed].

3:27:43So you're gonna speak for your husband? Uh

3:27:45no, he'll speak on his own.

3:27:49He doesn't dare speak for me either. Thanks, Pat. Okay, so um we uh own and are investors of a three-bedroom condo hotel in the walking village of Saddlebrook Resort. We intentionally chose Saddlebrook for the vast mature nature preserve, gated security, and peaceful neighborhood with a strong sense of community. Now, like I said, I brought my two kids here today because um I want them to really understand the importance of speaking up for your community and protecting your community.

3:28:19I think it's important. Now over the past year I've learned so much from my neighbors who have lived here over 40 plus years. I know that Saddlebrook is the sports legacy property of Pasco County. It was designed to attract all-size business groups for sports, business, leisure, bringing in people from all around the United States. Now first off I'd like to address any arguments stating that golf business is waning. Current trends in the hospitality market show otherwise. Obviously certain factors

3:28:50such as COVID put a hardship on the industry for a short time, but those days are clearly over. New golf course development is booming in Florida as you'll see on the slide. According to Golf Pass, after a decade-long post-recession hangover, golf course development is jolting back to life in a big way, particularly in Florida. Now you'll see, I don't want to bore you with all the different courses that are being developed, but it's obviously a booming industry. And I just want this to be noted that in case you're not aware, Mast has

3:29:20presented to our condo HOA members that they plan on taking our golf course private. thus eliminating any access to any county residents who enjoyed playing Saddlebrook for the past twenty-five years. Secondly, Saddlebrook Resort is on brand for Pasco County, which has rebranded itself as the Florida Sports Coast. Here's a quote from one of the former commissioners, Mike Moore, Chairman of the Pasco County Tourist Development Council and Pasco County Commission. He

3:29:51says that the with recent rebranding as Florida Sports Coast, the new Wiregrass Ranch Sports Campus of Pasco County will increase our competitive role in the sports tourism market. Now Saddlebrook Resort easily dovetails with other sports projects in Pasco County. It's an attraction and boost to Pasco County having a world-class reputation golf and tennis resort such as Saddlebrook bringing in professional athletes and golf and tennis enthusiasts from all over the world.

3:30:22You'll see that local news reports have stated the following. In 2022, Tampa Bay Times had a news article and they quoted Adam Thomas, the director of Pasco's Tourism Agency, and they noted financial results. They've said we picked up tremendous steam since we rebranded ourselves as a Florida Sports Coast, and we want to keep up that momentum.

3:30:45It shows the practical results that happened. 9,254 jobs were supported, 3.6 million in tourist taxes were collected, 231.6 million in wages and salaries were generated. Fox News in 2023 just did an article said Pasco County grows its sports destination, gives boost to local businesses and residents. A new report from Pasco County Sports Tourism Agency, Florida Sports Coast, they found that visitors spent more than $636

3:31:16million in the fiscal year of 2022 in Pasco County, and that is up 24%. Since twenty twenty one. Now is not the time to drive away any golf and tennis hospitality offerings and jeopardize sports related revenues in Pasco County or for Saddlebrook. Now with respect to jobs, no doubt creating additional commercial space for doctors' offices and ice cream shops in the apartment development in the front of Saddlebrook could have a positive economic

3:31:46impact. But as part of the calculus, I think we need to consider what is being lost in the process. Now you can see the SEC filings. Historically Saddlebrook has employed anywhere between 500 to 800 workers and brought in tremendous economic revenues to the county. And again, with some thoughtful investment, it could be that again. Large groups came in and spent money inside and outside the resort. The basic infrastructure at Saddlebrook and the current business climate in hospitality

3:32:17supports job growth at that same level today. Our resort has many acres of land that is being used for golf, tennis hospitality, business, and training school. So all of this just leaves me with a few questions. One. Why would Mast want to take an existing hospitality business, which is known, by the way, on their website? It is posted, you can find their accolades, as the top 100 golf resort

3:32:47in the world by Condoness Traveler, and chop it up into it's a and chop up its award-winning Palmer Golf Course. Well, they say they need to relocate a driving range. But it's really so they can build multiple four-story apartment buildings and 900 parking spots in front of our community resort.

3:33:09Mm-hmm. Why would they risk reducing Saddlebrook's golf footprint, which is what has attracted so many hospitality events and endless press and media recognition? Indeed, a few days ago, Mass Capital boasted about the importance of having both. of the Arnold Palmer eighteen whole golf courses on their Saddlebrook Facebook webpage. Here's what the lovely article has to say. It's

3:33:39from golfing magazine. This is what they posted. Golfers from the USA, the Northeast USA, excuse me, and Canada have been flocking to Saddlebrook for years. The two Arnold Palmer design courses are surely the number one reason. Mass says it needs to reduce the course to twenty-seven holes, yet a few days later they're boasting and proud about how the two Arnold Palmer design courses are giving Sallybrook all of this attention for the golf

3:34:09tourism world, but at the same time they want to rip it apart and replace it?

3:34:17Mass capital brought The they basically bought Saddlebrook Resort. It is a sports hospitality resort, first and foremost, within an existing planned community of 300 plus residential homes. A community that was carefully and thoughtfully built around and interconnected with the resort.

3:34:41In closing Golf and tennis hospitality is on the rise. Let's invest in it first, not reduce it. Saddlebrook has the existing infrastructure for job growth in the sports hospitality business. I wish Mass would do what they said they would do and focus on in this just invest in the existing structures. They have Saddlebrook, a sports hospitality business and a landmark property in Pasco. And they get to benefit

3:35:11financially from Pasco County as the Florida Sports Coast, which you guys are doing a great job. Build up the hotel. Build up the structures you were already permitted to build within Saddlebrook. Create the walking village or town square within the resort. There are plenty of growth opportunities within the existing permitted plans, the plans that were in place when Mass purchased the resort. This resort brings in hospitality and can do so much more. Reviving

3:35:42the resort depends on all of the Condotel owners to invest approximately $25 million to upgrade the rooms. Without that, there is no resort. Mast is asking our community to take a financial risk on our financial investment in our residential homes and condos so that Mast can profit on theirs first. The apartment development? It's easy for them to not invest in the resort if things don't work out. They can

3:36:12just simply choose not to. Or they could pack up and head back to Miami, leaving us all with a forever-changed community without a sports hospitality resort, no landmark property business that has an existing job engine, and in turn we get incompatible apartment developments in front of our community. Please, I implore you to vote no to allowing the redevelopment of an already established business community, a community built around Pasco County's sports landmark property. Thank you. Thank

3:36:42you.

3:36:44Okay. So then um Mr Parnes, uh were you planning on speaking too? Okay.

3:36:53So name and address for the record things.

3:36:55Andrew Py uh PowerPoint too.

3:37:13Okay. My name's Andrew Pines. I live at [address removed]. Thank you. Grateful for this opportunity to come speak with you. I'm gonna touch on uh a couple of the topics that were already touched on and that you were asking about uh Chairman Mariano. Mainly that uh the current proposal lacks traffic safety and and workability. This came to us in November in the mail. I talked about this at the Planning Commission. More apartments are coming. We counted on just what they presented here. There were 24 new multi-family

3:37:44complexes that have yet to be occupied just in and around the Wesley Chapel area. I think there's eight, I counted eight just around within a few minutes drive, accessing the 54 as well. So again, all this congestion is coming even without additional approvals for additional apartments in the space. Um Here's a picture I took the day before the Planning Commission. This is pretty typical at Saddlebrook. This is just to get out, and I understand they're putting a second left-hand turn lane, but they're talking about doubling. So the number

3:38:15of units that they're proposing in the front here is literally twice the number of all the homes and the condos and the townhomes at Saddlebrook today. Plus, all of the trips and traffic that's going to come from 900 parking spots from commercial. Real estate, etc. I don't see how this is gonna work. It's gonna create congestion on the 54, it's gonna create con congestion within the resort, uh, within the uh Saddlerbrook just from the construction. It causes safety, usability issues. I think

3:38:45pictures speak better. So here's just the other day. Uh this is again not even using the service road that's supposed to be used. This is going. into the com into the residential community. This is what we're going to have to deal with on our roads. We as residents actually pay for those roads. And it's just unacceptable that all this construction, everything that they want to do is going to have to come and congest our community. Um here's a map, the red arrow points to what you're asking about, which is the road that they want to build to access this right off the 54.

3:39:16It does, you know, go eastbound off of here. I've got even better slides here, but as you can see, let me see. Right here, this is the current entrance and exit. All the traffic is gonna naturally end up coming through there, and you'll see here in a second why. Um this is pictures yesterday. I went out there and took pictures. So the first one is the the end where the gate is today where they want to. I stood in the middle uh over here taking pictures of what it looks like, the traffic oncoming. Uh

3:39:46down below this is where we're going. Uh I'll try to wrap it up real quick here. Um I did have You've got time. Thanks.

3:39:56Um Again, more pictures. Oops, sorry. I don't know if they can hit play on this. I have. I'll just skip it. It's video that shows how much traffic is flying through here one way eastbound. I think it's safe to assume that uh the service trucks that are gonna be accessing this one little road um are not are ideally gonna be are needing to go to the 75. And here the only way they can go here is three, you know, three-lane road with massive traffic heading east. They're being asked to do U-turns. They're gonna

3:40:26ultimately take our entrance and exit. because they know they can go to that signal and turn left and that's just already congested and it's only gonna get worse. Um I'm gonna know. These are a lot of the issues I brought up. So thank you for your time. I'm gonna stop here, but uh it just unfortunately doesn't work.

3:40:46Thanks.

3:40:47Okay, thank you. So the last one I have for additional time is Nancy Foster, four minutes. Uh Ms. Foster. Why are these people getting next to the

3:40:54Nancy is a president of an HOA? Matter of fact, she's the lady that lives right next to the cl she's the closest house to the guard shack. So she's re representing HOA.

3:41:05And the people before got additional time? I'm Nancy Foster. I live at [address removed]. And I would like to show you what it's like for me when mass builds. So

3:41:37I made this map kind of a homemade map here. And I wanted to show you here. Uh this is the entrance going in and you've already familiar with that. Here's the gatehouse. This is where they're moving the gatehouse. This is where I live. I'm the first house. I'm 290 feet away from this. Across I'm sorry, across from me is Villa de Esta. It's the villas with twelve units. They're about a hundred feet uh m uh further than me, so they're they're even closer.

3:42:08Uh as you know this is the golf course and you can see all the homes here that back it. for their backyard over here. We have a backyard for golf courses. This is conservation. So my concern is uh I have a tranquil place that it's going to change. Now I'm going to have noise level. Coming in. I'm gonna hear the traffic. There's nine hundred parking spaces. Things will be open till probably twelve one in the morning. I'm gonna have trucks coming in delivery. And

3:42:39I'm going to miss My uh quiet time here. So I want to show you uh exactly, I hope I'm doing this right. Do I point it up here? To get to the next one. Am I doing that right?

3:42:57Yeah. All right, on this side, on the left side over here, this is, I'm on my property, this is my view. I can hear the ping of a golf ball coming off the uh golf uh club and I could see um I you know players just getting ready. I don't know if this is going to be two or four stories. I'm hearing one week it's two stories, one week it's four stories. This will be my view. And probably this is the front of this, but probably I'll see

3:43:27the back of it the because it'll probably be facing the other way. Everyone in Saddlebrook who leaves, this will be their view. Going out. So I think the next slide. Thank you. I am on Ainsworth now and as you could this is my cousin. She stood there. That's my property and that's my driveway over here and this is two hundred and ninety feet. Ainsworth is not going to be there anymore. They're going to fill that in. Next slide.

3:43:58I this is their this is my house. Now what's interesting to me here on the is that this is not a scale drawing. So Ainsworth is gone here. See how they built it up? My house looks like it's more than two hundred and ninety feet away from this. I don't know why it stretched that long. But anyhow Right here and my neighbor, this is we're gonna have this traffic coming in, coming in through us. The gatehouse is gonna be here.

3:44:29The little bridge that was in the picture is right about here. So my concern here is not only the noise level, now they're putting a chain link fence here. We don't have fences in Saddlebrook. There might be just a few for some reason. We don't allow fences and we don't allow chain link fences. So now when people come in this is what they're going to see. So thank you very much.

3:44:53Wait, you have another minute.

3:44:56I'm done.

3:44:56Okay.

3:44:57Did I

3:44:59Well you did it in three.

3:45:00Did I do it in three?

3:45:01In three on the button.

3:45:02I told you I wasn't sure. Okay. Any questions? No?

3:45:07Okay. Thank

3:45:08you.

3:45:09Okay. So now um moving to the list of uh standard three minute times. I'm gonna actually call three of you up and if you'll line up. Um Mark Perings, followed by Tracy Maxie, followed by Mary Uh Kolman maybe or Kolna?

3:45:28And name and address for the record when you come to the podium. Thank you.

3:45:43Mark Pairings.

3:45:48Okay. Then did Tracy Maxie also leave? Okay. Thank you, Ms. Maxie.

3:46:03Am I?

3:46:07My name is Tracy Maxie. My husband John and I own a home at [address removed]. Though we have vacationed here often over the last 20 years, we're relatively new homeowners moving here for retirement. We are drawn to the area because it is incredibly beautiful, tranquil, and has quiet private streets and teeming with wildlife. It is a slice of heaven hidden from the craziness of State

3:46:38Route fifty four. Every day I see amazing wildlife and picturesque views. I found myself constantly sharing the beauty of the flora and fauna with my family and friends in Ohio. Many of these creatures are protected like the wood stork and are unique to Florida and certainly not seen in the Midwest. The sandhill crane is federally protected and has a state-designated threatened species by Florida's endangered and threatened species rule.

3:47:08Its habitat is wetlands and grasslands which are threatened by wetland drainage and development. Additionally, flooding can lead to nest failure and this can be exacerbated by runoff from developed areas. Limkins are another protected bird. Habitat destruction, wetland drainage, and pollution impact them and their primary diet of apple snails. I just watched this one use its specially curved beak to extract snails from the shell. You

3:47:39can find a resort or go to a tennis tournament just about anywhere that is going to have some awesome pool with some palm trees and high-rise apartments and lots of concrete. But you aren't going to find a combination of these things mixed with a neighborhood that has this natural habitat, an array of birds and other creatures right outside your door. So I'm not a photographer. I just like to get out and walk and use my cell phone camera and see the amazing diverse uh

3:48:10creatures that I come across every day. And the most amazing part is that just outside the neighborhood gate is fifty four, With all the hustle and bustle of traffic I'm sorry, I'm almost done, Um and that thankfully blocks um the noise and is our buffer zone. Um by using the driving range and the lush landscaping and forest, we looked and there is no other neighborhood like Saddlebrook. Turning our diverse landscape into concrete plains

3:48:40and picturesque views into concrete Lego structures threatens the lives of these wonderful creatures and the very essence of the Saddlebrook community. When my four year old grandson Jay comes to visit, we don't need toys or games to keep him occupied. We can just go for a gator hunt or armadilla hole expedition or check out the Spanish moss on the cypress trees. He's learning about the American green tree frogs, Lubberghoppers, Brown Anil, Wild turkeys. Even otters we saw running from one pond to another.

3:49:11There are red shouldered hawks, wood storks, and peninsula cuter tur turtles too. You can find all these and more in Saddlebrook, whether out on the golf course or in the marshy wetlands and cypress tree forests. All these creatures' survival is impact by habitat loss, wetland loss, pollution and development. They must travel farther from their nests to their feeding grounds, which makes them more susceptible to predators and getting hit by a car. Um hopefully future generations of grandchildren

3:49:41will be able to see these creatures with their own eyes, not like the Dodo Bird. We strongly urge you to not allow the rezoning of Saddlebrook Resort that will change the character of our neighborhood and ruin the habitat of so many interesting creatures. Thank you.

3:49:54Thank you. So for folks coming up, uh after your name and address for the record, you're gonna speak for we're gonna give you three minutes and then after two minutes you're gonna see the yellow light come on. That means you've got one minute to go. After that, if you would if the red light comes on, just try to wrap it up quickly. We're gonna keep it moving. Thank you.

3:50:12Okay, Mary Co is it Coleman or Colnar?

3:50:16Hi, I'm um Mary Coleman. I'm uh uh a resident of Saddlebrook. We're relatively new. My husband and I moved here this year, but that was after several years of exploring where we wanted to be in this area, and we chose it for many of the things that have already been talk talked about. I'm also a family physician who works remotely from my home and in doing telemedicine. Um the the reason I wanted to just um there's some questions that just to me haven't been fully answered and and I just want to bring

3:50:46them up so to make sure you guys are thinking about 'em. One is um just how will this um mass development's population expansion affect resources that are already short in uh Pascoal County? And I very much understand the benefits of population. Population expansion and has a lot of rewards. But there are especially those rewards only come in if we really do our good planning, right? And accommodate the health and safety of all of us. I'm worried that the resources might not be able to

3:51:17to keep up with the planned growth. So how you know, how will mass developments population expansion affect resources that relate to health care? Uh the total number of physicians and in the in according to this Florida Health Chart that um was done that in in Pasco County per hundred thousand is twenty two hundred and twelve versus versus what it is in Florida, which is three hundred and eight. So we already have a shortage of physicians and the pediatricians there's

3:51:47only seven per hundred thousand versus uh an average of twenty one in the rest of Florida. Um just anecdotal evidence after coming here and myself trying to find healthcare And get it established. Healthcare delays are not unusual. I take care of a lot of people who can't get into people because they and so they resort to telemedicine. But res and I am licensed in the state of Florida. Um recently, though, I noticed that an MRI for an acute onset of knee pain was delayed for more than a month.

3:52:17Echocardiogram to determine the gravity of fluid around the heart.

3:52:24The I just think that the that there's there are some issues that maybe the rapid population health growth of this county has not taken into consideration and that that might be affecting us. And also um I'm wondering about how mass um projected construction expansion of the population living in the area will affect soil saturation and flooding and almost a quarter of Pasco County. is wetland

3:52:55and it's increasing. The challenges of maintaining that uh appropriate drainage are very much there with the rapid growth. And so recent I know we read a report in the newspaper, recent Wesentley Chapel residents experienced unexpected flooding and a hundred year flood plan, thought to be due to irrigation changes caused by new developments on 56. Now I don't know I this is not my area of expertise, but I can tell you that the land and the property in S Saddlebrook where we are, our lawns are are already

3:53:25easily saturated after rains, with limited capacity for drainage, contributing to conditions that have resulted in more mosquitoes, more grub room pub proliferation attracting a whole bunch of armadillos, poor soil drainage, unhealthy for a lot of of the foliage, including some hundred year old live oaks. So my question is, are we ready? Thank you.

3:53:48Okay, thank you. Um the next three are going to be Liz Alonzo, followed by Patrick Colin Burns, followed by Karen Howland.

3:54:20Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is Liz Alonzo. I live at [address removed]. I'm a realtor, have lived in Saddlebrook since 1987, and have always sold only Saddlebrook properties. I've never left those gates in 33 years. I have.

3:54:47First I want to just say I am totally against taking away the driving range. I'm also against changing the uniqueness of Saddlebrook, not having those two 18-hole golf courses and making it a 27-hole course. Next, this is the important thing for all these other folks. I have some real concerns that I'd like to share with all of you. We

3:55:18had some high hopes when Mass Capital bought Saddlebrook, I included, and we have all been let down. That led me to look into what Mass Capital is doing with other properties. I wanted to see all the apartments they have talked about in their letter that they sent to all of us when they bought the resort and talked about it in their presentations. Well, to my surprise, I found two apartments around 240 plus units.

3:55:50half of what they want to build on our driving range. I looked up the reviews to see what their residents say about living there. Well, what I read is awful. It's really just awful.

3:56:07I brought the reviews to show you so you can see that I'm not just picking on the bad ones. I have a packet that I've given to each of you. There's a slide and a video that we're going to be putting up now for you. First is a Mass Wake Biscayne Bay video. All one-star reviews over the past year. One star. Many of the reviews say that there's trash everywhere, bugs everywhere, dog and urine smells in the elevators and

3:56:37hallways. They state that the apartments are filthy and run down. Next Ocean Walk Apartments, which Mass bought on September 14, 2014. Out of 23 Yelp reviews, four are five-star reviews from five years ago. But there are 19 one and two-star reviews from five years until just a month ago. Hallways look like slums unpainted and dirty. Dirty office never answers. Garbage everywhere, poop everywhere. Is

3:57:08that what we want at the entrance to our community? We want us community residents calling the county complaining constantly about the things these other apartment renters are having to deal with. And next I want to just discuss this. The question I had is, if Mass was so confident that residents of Saddlebrook would benefit and be happy with their plans, then why be so secretive and not have all five homeowner associations meet together in the Saddlebrook Ballroom to discuss it? Which still hasn't happened. And

3:57:38why would Mass tell the board members of the com of the Condo Association not to share their slides with the members in the minutes? Mass said not to share anything with the members until the plans have been approved by the county. I have given those minutes for you to see and put in the record. In closing, I'd like to take also Nancy's minute or two minutes that she had and didn't get to use, if it's possible.

3:58:04I ask you to please not approve the apartment for this area. We are a community and are willing to make concessions, but not apartments in the entrance where it is meant to give everyone that enters the feeling of what to expect once you enter our community, a feeling of calmness and tranquility, changing the look and feeling of the entrance, which immediately draws you in with its beautiful flowers, trees, and palms. I know you see that apartments do not belong in this area. We trust and are confident that you will give all the proposals before your

3:58:34thoughtful consideration and how it will affect everyone now and in the years to come. I'd like to also take this thought with you. A private club is the first thing I heard today that I had not heard before. A private club. How are they going to make any money that way? There aren't that many members. How much are they going to raise the cost to be a member? That's something new I heard today. I'm just floored by that. What does that mean to us as a community and club members?

3:59:09Okay, Patrick Colin Burns.

3:59:14And if um Karen Holland can just line up behind him, you'll be next. Okay.

3:59:20Hi, good evening. My name is Patrick Olin Burns. I live at [address removed] in Saddlebrook. Uh I just wanted to talk uh excuse me. Thank you for giving me the opportunity, Commissioner and Chairman Mariano. I wanted to uh Breach or talk about a point that uh Commissioner Weightman brought up before, which is the public a uh safety aspect to this. I did bring up the public safety aspect during the Planning Commission meeting and uh I um had a question and answer session

3:59:50with the assistant county attorney at that point in time. Um he questioned me as to why there was no comment received. Um since that meeting I understand that we received uh some comment from the Sheriff's Department. But ironically enough, I had the privilege and the opportunity for the last two days to host a training session with the Special Operations Commanders from Pasco County Sheriff. Hillsboro County Sheriff. Tampa

4:00:20Fire Rescue and many other public safety agencies uh within our area. And being the host you can kind of set your own rules. So I took the opportunity at 10 30 this morning to stop the training and propose to them this question. Given this development, Would you or would you not comment on the effects given your department, whether it be police, fire, EMS, or other? to give comment to the commissioners regarding this proposed

4:00:51uh amendment to the plan. And I can state for a fact that it was unanimous that every single commander in that room would respond. To this plan. So I pose the question, and I guess the question I have for everyone, and not only the County Commission, is why. There was no response from either Pasco County fire or a more fervent response from Pasco County Sheriff. I just wanted to leave that with your thought and that's all I

4:01:21have. Any questions?

4:01:23We're not gonna do question and answer, so you have two minutes. Oh,

4:01:26I'm good. I'll yield the time back. Thank you.

4:01:29Thank you.

4:01:29Okay. Okay, Karen Howland?

4:01:39Yeah, motion to receive and finals.

4:01:40Second.

4:01:42I need I need a motion.

4:01:45I'll make that motion.

4:01:48All in favor say aye.

4:01:52Quick trigger.

4:01:55You need to do it during your presentation. She missed doing it during hers, but just ask for it when you when you present.

4:02:03Can she do it before she presents though?

4:02:04Sure. something that may have permission to subject.

4:02:08This is this another receiving file. I'll make the motion. Second.

4:02:12All in favor say aye. Aye.

4:02:16Thank you.

4:02:17First of all, I know this is a long evening so I'll try to keep this uh brief. Uh first of all let me introduce myself. My name's Karen Havlin. Um my address is [address removed]. I am a hotel condo owner of 21 years. And we fell in love with Saddlebrook so much that when our hotel condo degraded down from lack of upkeep, we went and we bought a condo down at Lakeside. And totally

4:02:48remodeled it. And that's where we stay now. We still have a hotel condo, but we don't stay there, we don't bring our friends anymore or family anymore. because of the condition of it. But the property itself is spectacular. We have since also bought a retirement home, which we are um in the future are going to be renovating and hope to move down to Saddle Rook. Um A lot of property that gets developed in Pasco County is developed on or is

4:03:18developed, bought and developed on undeveloped land. Well, Saddlebrook was a bargain, okay? One of the things I think that's important for mass capital is I actually probably should be talking to them, but it's probably good for us all to hear, is they need to understand. understand how the resort operates and this is huge. They have removed our security from down at Lakeside. And we pay condo dues and our condo dues are combined between the residents

4:03:48full time and the hotel condo owners. Okay, so we we're paying multiple condo fees. And um so down at Lakeside where are there more residential condos, uh we lost our security down there. And they also lost our lakeside uh management. And that's huge because a lot of people who live out of st out of state, um, if they have an apartment leaking up above, you have to be able to call someone. to get it to fix. And we've spent thousands of

4:04:18dollars in doing repairs because of uh not having that um having that contact. Now they have since I think done some corrections on that, um which is good to know. But as far as taking the hotel the first of all the resort Is the whole. is the whole Bailey Wig. And the resort hotel condo condo owners make up about 500 property owners who pay property taxes. but don't cost you anything. We're you

4:04:48know, we don't have kids in school, we don't have, you know, police issues, emergency issues that the regular daily residents have. So we are a bargain for you. And Saddlebrook is a huge employer. So I'm not gonna go into all the other stuff, but uh a hotel condo cannot be turned into a private resident. Like was suggested earlier. Hotel condo owners have no electric bill because the condo association pays it. It is one bill. Same

4:05:19with water. There is no parking. You have to park on the resort property to access your condo. You have to have access to a resort golf cart. to access your condo. Uh there are no laundry facilities in these hotel condos either. So they're not livable. Um but I I just want to share that with with everyone. Anyways, thank you very much for your time and um Please we we put all our hope in you.

4:05:46Mr. Chairman Mariano, so you asked for something to be received and filed which you didn't reference in your testimony. So what was it that you had and you asked them to receive and file?

4:05:58Um letters.

4:05:59Letters from

4:06:00From residents uh writing to you about um their thoughts.

4:06:05Are you gonna pass

4:06:06those off? I'm trying to get everything.

4:06:09Thank you,

4:06:09sorry.

4:06:12Okay, thank you. Um so I'm gonna ask the next three to line up. So Julia Bartunik would be first, followed by Denise Reichenbach, followed by Keith Swobe.

4:06:24Yeah, hi, my name is Julia Bartunic and I live at [address removed] and I'm here as uh representative from the Sierra Club Pasco Conservation Committee. The Sierra Club Pasco Conservation Committee supports measures here today to preserve wetlands, concretizing wetlands, impact drainage, and in this case, P-50, the federally listed

4:06:54endangered wood stork. To note, habitat wetland preservation for the Sandhill Crane is imperative because they will migrate back to the said same habitat.

4:07:10section when it is paved, then slowly die. They never relocate. The gopher tortoise burrows located in these areas need preservation since they provide habitat for 350 species. When burrows are tragically covered, the tortoises die slowly, suffocating, unable to dig out, sometimes To six months, notwithstanding other species critical to a balanced environment which fosters

4:07:40mental and physical health. Thus, the targeted hardwood conifer area needs protection. Please consider saving these critical habitats. This project, as it stands, is not recommended by the Sierra Club PASCO Conservation Commissioner. Committee additionally important for inclusion in all developments supported by Sierra Club is building sustainably compatible vertically where possible, dark sky lighting, EV charging

4:08:10stations, solar resourcing, and EV train systems transportation. Thank you. And I would like uh to have a motion entertained, please, uh, to submit my comments into the Yeah.

4:08:24Yeah, the motion.

4:08:26Placid there.

4:08:27Comments.

4:08:29Oh there.

4:08:30Does it need to receive biologist?

4:08:31It just comments.

4:08:33Okay.

4:08:33Uh y they've they're already on the record, ma'am. You just I

4:08:36would

4:08:36like to

4:08:36submit the paper something resulted. Yes, I would like to submit this.

4:08:40Got a motion and receiving approval. Second. All in favor say aye. Thank you.

4:08:47Uh Denise Rai Riken. Riken Bach, I think. Okay,

4:08:53thank you. Hi everyone, I'm Denise Reichenbach. My husband, Rick and I live at [address removed]. In Saddlebrook. Um, I had a whole thing, but uh I don't think I need to say That whole thing because a lot of people have already said it. Uh Rick and I specifically bought the home uh that we're in right now because it has a hundred and eighty degree view of both the Palmer and Saddlebrook golf courses. Probably about seven different

4:09:23holes that we can see, greens and driving ranges. Um Obviously we've put a lot into it. We've had a lot of concerns and there hasn't been a lot of details until recently about what's going to go behind us. And it was clear to us that the reason that there was an area one and there was going to be the apartments there, that everything that's in area one had to move somewhere. Um what I heard today though is uh uh it was good news and I

4:09:53believe somebody helped get it on the record, is that we were told that anybody with a that currently has a golf course view today. will maintain their golf course view. I don't know that we're gonna maintain seven holes of golf and two different golf courses, but that's a real relief to hear. And I would just want it on the record too that it's not just um a golf course view that I just wanna be clear that it's not going to be golf related, right, which would be golf maintenance and the equipment and chemicals

4:10:24and everything and or laundry. I didn't know about the laundry. That that could be in our backyard too. So um appreciate that that's been put on the record. Very much appreciate all the the time and um and the questions and and the quests for details that all of you have been asking about. and that um that you're gonna help protect our investment in in our property in Salebrook as well. That's it. Thank you. Do you have any questions?

4:10:54Okay, thank you.

4:10:56Keith Sou.

4:10:59So

4:11:02Hi, I'm Keith Swoke, [address removed]. I just want to talk about common sense. Our first trip to Salibrook was in 1979. And my first impression was the golf course is gorgeous. The sp peaceful, so quiet. I was ready to move as soon as I saw it. My wife says too far to go. So the second trip was two years later in 1981. I convinced my wife to purchase a lot to build on. Even

4:11:33though it's 15 minutes from the nearest grocery store. Uh The benefits of a peaceful, secure sanctuary was well worth it. When this when the resort first came in, it was great. Eighteen more holes of golf, all the tennis courts, exciting tournaments, and a and a beautiful resort pool. However, the last eighteen years have not been good. It's not been maintained properly. We've been praying for a while that somebody will come in, take it over, take care of it. However

4:12:04now we have now they have There's been a lot of changes that we don't know what's going on. And we just have a lot of questions. What are the business plans? Has anybody even seen them? Short term plans, we know those. They want to In order to rebuild the resort, the course, they're gonna have to change to get rid of the range. Put apartments, townhouse, and shopping areas, get rid of nine holes of golf. What about long-term plans? Why don't you move the range? You put fourteen plus apartments.

4:12:35You seal the fate of the resort. In ten years a front door of the resort will be four hundred plus ten year old apartments That peaceful serene entrance will have 400 ten-year-old apartments that you drive in to welcome everybody.

4:12:54This board is our only hope. What you decide today will determine what happens to Saddlebrook's long-range future.

4:13:04At least See what the long term plan is. We don't know what that is.

4:13:10There's gotta be a better way. It opened 1400 apartments. in the front door of our result. Thank you very much.

4:13:20Okay, thank you. The last three I have signed up are Rebecca Perings, followed by Ann Schlechter, followed by Dan Richardson.

4:13:34Rebecca Pairings. Um Anne Anne and then Dan I think also left. Okay, so I do not have anyone else signed up um for public comment. Okay. I don't know if there's anyone else.

4:13:51Is there anyone else in the public who would like to speak that wasn't on the list? Please line up.

4:14:00Is there anyone on WebEx that's holding?

4:14:02There is no one else on WebEx.

4:14:18My name is Geraldine Mayerman. I actually live In [address removed], but I own an apartment. At Saddlebrook in the Condotel. I've owned there since nineteen eighty five. So I'm one of the the first ones. When they talk about rental returns, there is a long list and I'm not gonna go into the details now. But If your unit is used twenty days out of the ninety-day quarter, You

4:14:48don't get the rental returns. By the time they chop it up, and to all the different people that get a piece of it or different departments that get a piece of it, maybe we get a third. If that's right. Also I was just informed That Well, I know that they wanna do renovations and that this is gonna cost the condo owners anywhere between thirty and sixty thousand dollars each. I'm a retired school

4:15:18teacher. I don't have that kind of money. But I may lose my apartment. Now, the other thing is they said you can take it out of the rental pool. That's fine. Except that Do they say that I'm going to lose my club privil privileges even though I Pay them? I pay them quarterly. But I won't be if my apartment is not in the rental pool. They're saying that I will not be able to even come over and play golf as a member, use

4:15:48the pool, nothing. Um they say they're gonna allow us to lease the units for a year. But the people that lease it can't use the laundry facilities? They can't use the trash? They can't use the parking lot. And they will not have a membership. They can't use the pool or any of the other things that are around there. This is very disturbing to me. Because basically mast is Putting those that don't have large checkbooks. Out of

4:16:18Saddlebrook. So I think you need to keep that in in mind. Um It's inconsistent to what they've been telling us. We do pay HOA fees. We do pay. Resort. Maintenance fees and club fees. And we're not going to be able to have anything. Thank you.

4:16:43Please every the next speaker, yes.

4:16:48Seth Weightman

4:16:49Good afternoon. Uh my name is Barry Schein. My wife and I have been coming to Saddlebrook for twenty years. We own seven units in the Condo Hotel. And we own a house at [address removed]. So we are a member of the Condu Association as well as a member of the Fairway Association. First let me say I'm not sure that the coalition people were truly transparent. They did not say how many people they represent. There

4:17:20are many of our friends who live in Fairway that did not join the coalition. They do not represent our view. And they made the impression on everybody that they represented all of the homeowners. This is not true.

4:17:37I am not only An owner, I am also a member of the Condo Association Board of Directors and I act as the treasurer of that organization. I've worked very closely with Mass. In preparing the budget. for the 500 and some units that make up the Condo Hotel and the Condo Association. I've they masked now has become the manager. Of

4:18:08that resort providing services to all of the condo owners. In so doing, I worked very closely with them related to making the budget. For this year? and analyzing what had been spent in the past by the prior owner. I believe they are people of integrity. I believe they will do what they say they will do. And I believe they need to have some development. to create the earnings.

4:18:39And the funds available to make the needed repairs and improvements in the resort.

4:18:47As a board member I have been involved with our attorney. in drafting the declaration or deed restriction which was most important to all people associated with this property, to make sure in perpetuity The golf course would remain a golf course and not when they're gone or when they're there, more development would come before you for additional development of that golf course to lose those view and the beauty of the golf course.

4:19:18So that is a critical part of this development plan. I wouldn't have to do that. I would encourage you

4:19:28be swayed by a minority of people that don't represent all of the homeowners and all of the condo owners that that live in this development. I would encourage it. to in make some way conditional that the promises made here today with the plans that are here today are actually implemented. I'm a layman. I don't know how to do that. But if they do We

4:19:58will have a better resort in Pasco County. And that resort will attract Quality people. to Saddlebrook and to the entire area. Thank you. Questions? No questions.

4:20:13you've asked other people.

4:20:15Well I just want to know how many how many homes, how many units are in Snapford? Top.

4:20:22Do you oh th this is Mike Sullivan. He's the Go ahead. Okay.

4:20:27I can ask I'll I can ask anyone actually.

4:20:30Thank you. I am W. Michael Sullivan, Professor Emeritus now. I bought a place in Saddlebrook about two decades ago. My wife and I found it, thought it was a gem, said, Here's a place we're going to learn to live so when we stop being practicing snowbirds, we can land and stay. We both play golf. I spent forty years at the University of Rhode Island teaching in what was a golf and sports turf management. Course work.

4:21:00I have been a lead consultant on golf courses current value of somewhere around three hundred million dollars. So I have some sense of the design work and capability of Rhys Jones and Company, I have some fairly well developed idea of what the courses need, what the land needs at Saddlebrook. People repeatedly have told you the drainage system has failed. Yes, it's not a quick fix. It would require thousands

4:21:31and thousands of yards of excavation to create it and make it functional. The same for the irrigation system. A good irrigation system has a lifespan of 20 to 25 years. These are well past that. that requires a lot of cash to repair that. Mr. Chairman, with all due respect to your golf capability, the Greens are a vast improvement of two years ago. They're still in very poor shape.

4:21:59I disagree.

4:22:00PGA or other league, we've tried to bring Northeastern universities to Saddlebrook in recent years for a spring collegiate tournament to help the local economy, the courses. don't need the conditions. The other real issue with those conditions are Yeah. The youthful flexibility of the student now or the younger golfer When Mr. Palmer was on the course in his best day, his

4:22:31T-ball was 230 to 250 yards. Today, a PGO Pro on the LPGA tour, they're averaging 310. On the PGA tour, it's 330, 340, 350. It's less than 325 yards from the T-Box. boxes on the current practice facility to Route 54. So you have some safety issues if you continue to maintain it there. That's a revenue, I

4:23:01look at it, yes, it will change the entrance, it'll change the sense of passage, but it's a revenue stream. To make the necessary repairs, the necessary upgrades, to improve the quality of the residual facilities. I look out at the proposed new practice facility. I will see a small building. that'll house the students or the residents in rain and I want to go hit some. We have spent a lot of time.

4:23:32talking to the mass people. They have shared every rendering, every drawing, every presentation that we've asked them for. So the suggestion that they're difficult to deal with I haven't had that experience. The Give me one more minute. One more second. Um the needs of the course courses are substantive. I can live with the idea that

4:24:02we have negotiated, and I'll leave it to them to present what I would call a very enforceable conservation easement, a deed restriction that lives beyond all of us. So that should Golf continue as it is in the nation. We're losing 100 to 120 golf courses a year in the United States. Florida is the outlier. It's even or growing 0.2,

4:24:330.3%. That's because all of us from New England are moving here and want to keep playing. But there'll come a time where we won't. And so I like the idea of a legacy agreement that says should golf fail. You now have an area that was once two golf courses, that evolved to twenty seven holes, but also now remains is open space in perpetuity for

4:25:03the wildlife many have suggested are their most valuable. So I would urge you to carefully consider the pros and the cons and I thank you having sat for twenty years on the local boards at home. Thank you for your seat time today and your endurance.

4:25:20Mr. Sullivan before you leave your address for the record.

4:25:23Oh I'm sorry. Here it's [address removed]. where my wife is and I still won't She's all the way in Rhode Island, [address removed], and I still won't speak for her. Thank you.

4:25:41My name is Dan Augustatus and I'm at [address removed]. And the question I've got in this raising world of crime. I want to know if Mass is planning on converting our streets from private streets to public streets. Even though if they say they're going to keep gates, you can't stop people from coming in once it goes to public roads. Just want to put it on the record.

4:26:09Highly unlikely the county would take them from them. Just yep, just experienced.

4:26:18I've been in some subdivisions and they've gone from private to public and it's caused nothing but a rise in crime because they can't control it.

4:26:26Well looking for that.

4:26:27That's it.

4:26:29Okay. Uh yeah, well the any any other public comment? Anybody wish to speak that hasn't spoken yet? Okay, and there's nobody on WebEx? Correct. So public public comment will be closed. Um I'll have the applicant come up.

4:26:46Do you want to ask questions to your staff first? Or do you want to have the applicant come up?

4:26:52I'll ask some

4:26:52questions.

4:26:53I want to ask some questions to the staff or to the board? I mean to the applicant. I

4:26:57have one for staff.

4:26:58Well just I can do it to the staff. It doesn't matter. They're here to move.

4:27:02So from from a procedural standpoint, I'd rather you have the staff and then Ms. Willheid can rebut them if necessary. Okay. She comes up for her rebuttal and get it over with one.

4:27:16We're gonna ask that for Terry or who's that who's coming up?

4:27:32Okay. Good evening, Commissioner Yeah.

4:27:35Yeah, I'm I'm gonna ask you a question. All right. Commissioner go. All right, Terry, I um I've listened to both sides and I understand what Mass has said and what what the residents have said. Somewhere in the middle is the right fix. for the residents and for maths. My problem is If we don't tremit transmit this today. I don't know where that's going to leave our citizens with

4:28:06uh property that needs to be redone or put some things on it to bring it back to life, that it'll be uh very much more profitable, it'll be more um financially stable as far as the homes. But I don't wanna leave I don't want to say no to this and then come up And They're not at this still the residents aren't at the table anymore and you just got mass. So I'd like to see them come together. I don't know how the best way is

4:28:36for 'em to come together. But they need to meet in the middle. So both parties win. If you know what I'm saying. So if if this is turned down today, what happens with this project? How would it go forward?

4:28:54You mean

4:28:55to say if if the transmittal is denied?

4:28:57If the transmittal is denied. What happens? Why does that leave the residence? Because I know they want something better than what some of that they have. So where does that leave them if we deny it today? So I'm going to throw the

4:29:12planning director a lifeline. Um because it's really a legal legal question. Um if transmittal is Denied. The applicant has the ability to go back through the whole process again, but the the applicant is left with res six and they can do whatever they can do in res six. and maybe whatever vested rights they still have

4:29:43on the property. from their original approvals. You've not done a vested rights determination on this property, but The chairman pointed out that there are there are things in their approvals that they never used. I don't know whether whether this board would give them vested rights to do a nine story building. There's a pro there's a different process for that. But the answer to your question is they can do res six. They might be able to do something more

4:30:13if the if they had were determined to have vested rights by this board. But it's not a good one. And you can ask the applicant, it probably um creates a problem for their for their redeveloper.

4:30:27Right. So then that that problem causes the residents a problem also because that way they don't come up meet together and and have um maybe a downsized resort that's better than it is today because I was out there working in in the eighties when when it started and um I serviced salad with fresh orange juice from a fruit stand right there Seventy five and

4:30:57fifty four and I was there for about eleven years till uh most all the oranges froze out. But They were very viable.

4:31:07resort at that time. And it it was great times and some people probably remember how it was. But I want 'em to see 'em succeed, but I want 'em to meet with mass somewhere in that metal where they will succeed. I just hate Just see the fact that it would kinda go away and be whatever you can do out of res six and then of course you might get some remodeling all but I don't know if financially they'll be able to do some of that with the new way

4:31:37they've purchased the property. So that's my concern to

4:31:42Well, I if I could. Um Something to think about. You know, our land development code. has one thing that's that starts off and the first thing we're supposed to do before we're going to go submit a plan like this, let's have a neighborhood meeting. They say that the early citizen participation in an informal firming in conjunction with development approval applications to provide the applicant an opportunity to understand any impacts the neighborhood may experience. Now I will tell you if they did Have that neighborhood meeting. With everybody

4:32:13in one shot. And I think Saddleburg could have accommodated it very easily, as we all know. Right? Had they done that? Those that meeting could have get them the opportunity to actually consider maybe they wouldn't mind more density in the central part of it, keeping the nature all around it. But they didn't do that. Matter of fact, frankly, this thing in my opinion never should have even seen uh the process going forward because they didn't have that meeting ahead of time before they submitted, which is in the code.

4:32:44Um It's Definitely significant across the board the land use changes being done. And you know one thing that you that you you mentioned, you know, what what's gonna happen to me if we don't do something? I will tell you the apartments out there. will be surely devastated. Never mind the apartments we had coming all around. We saw the map.

4:33:02Commissioner, did you have a question for staff?

4:33:05No, I'm I'm talking because he he made a statement I'm gonna talk. And I have the floor. Thank you. Um Well,

4:33:13I think that's a good thing.

4:33:14You have a little bit of a little bit of a little bit Um When we l when we look at what's gonna happen to the people if we don't do something and they go try to build apartments, I granted Res 6 it could probably have limitations. That's gonna be effective to to direct d directly destructive to what goes on from what we've heard with the citizens going out there.

4:33:33Well, What I see at this point It would be better, I think, that they continue it and I don't know how long that continuance should be. Go point. That Mass has a definite plan. Engraved in the sand. That stays there. that they can present to all the residents. and come up with that plan that They all meet and greet together on it. that'll make Saddlebrook

4:34:03like it was back in the eighties much better than it is today. 'Cause I know the people coming from the north and all that's changed. uh smaller groups probably can come in from anywhere in the United States here 'cause this is a destination to come to. We know that.

4:34:22But I just hate to see it fail because it You know, we don't have a good plan that residents can agree to. Today I can tell you what most of The residents don't seem to want anything. But in fact, I honestly believe they do want something. They just want it better than what they've been shown or told by Mass at this point. Commissioner Weightman.

4:34:45Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Commissioner appreciate your sentiment. My question would be Well kinda ate an impasse and you know measuring both parties. I am extremely grateful that somebody's willing to have picked up Saddlebrook and want to give it a shot in the arm and bring it back to life. It's fantastic. It's fitting into what Wesley Chapel and sports tourism market that

4:35:16we have and then increasing the investment of the homeowners. But today I saw a plan that I hadn't seen before or my office has seen before. and uh learned a few things and have a a list of questions. Um So the piggyback off Commissioner Oakley is is it is it appropriate to continue this item to work it out because I d I'm not comfortable with Shutting

4:35:46something down when I think if we get a little bit more time we work together to come up with a quality product and a success story here. Um so I guess my question is to count attorneys if it's is there an option to continue this item for

4:36:03There's an always an option for continuance but you haven't heard uh heard heard anything from the applicant at this point You were still in staff in community.

4:36:14Um Mr. Chairman Mariano.

4:36:18So the you had had a question for staff. Yeah, okay. So my question to staff is back with the traffic study. There's a third party who conducted a study. Uh how's that measured with what The county has diagnosed.

4:36:35So at the at the comprehensive plan level, we do what's called a transportation needs assessment. As a project progresses and gets into entitlement considerations under zoning, we'll do what's called a timing and phasing analysis. Um but the transportation needs assessment was reviewed by staff and the conclusion that was that that came from the assessment was that adjacent roadways will be operating within the acceptable levels

4:37:05of service. And actually the Res 6 would generate more trips than the proposed PV would. And so that's what enabled that conclusion or those conclusions enabled us to move forward with the analysis of the comprehensive plan amendment. Um online right now is Mr. or Dr. Amir Jamali, who actually did the transportation needs assessment review. So if there's any particular questions related to that conclusion, um he could provide some some support now.

4:37:36Well my my question to that would be obviously this third party study is a challenge to what this the county has determined. So I'm curious to see how far off they are from one another.

4:37:51Uh Amir, were you able to hear that question?

4:37:56Yes. Good afternoon, I'm here Jamoni, Center for Station Penny Luther. Uh actually

4:38:06the county has not done any study. The study has been done by Links Associates, which is traffic engineer hired by Mast and we only review their traffic study. And their traffic study shows uh all of the roadway adjacent to this project, which are SR fifty-four segments, from Kelly Road to Bruceby Downs, we are gonna are gonna operate within acceptable level of service.

4:38:36And they are not exceed V over C of one.

4:38:43Under a follow-up question for that? The report that was said earlier from uh the uh transportation expert said it was at ninety-eight point six percent capacity So does that mean one point four percent away from failing? Is that is that an accurate number?

4:39:01No, the V over C of one segment is gonna be 0.98, which is 2% less than V over C of one. And it's not gonna be failed.

4:39:15Uh V over C. Can you define V over C Amir?

4:39:20Excuse me?

4:39:25Mm-hmm. Over capacity volume is the background traffic plus the project traffic. And the capacity is determined by PUT generalized tables, which is like a manual or right-up usually use for such projects.

4:39:46I don't stand what's the answer in English please.

4:39:53Basically a V C ratio of one would equal that you rode to that capacity.

4:39:58Say it again.

4:39:59A V C ratio of a one would indicate that your road is at capacity. Basically the volume of traffic matches the volume uh uh allowable onto the road.

4:40:08And that's what the professor

4:40:10numerator and the denominator are equal, incorrect.

4:40:12So are we at point nine eight then? W we're measuring from the level of service though, which is not What is the level of service, Amir?

4:40:24Does it get a lot of service? E

4:40:28Which i which amounts to uh what numerical

4:40:34Down.

4:40:36The value that may say I would

4:40:47And while he's looking at uh your level of service on a road varies. Uh so you can have a level of service of A, which is free flow of traffic all the way to failure where it's complete standstill. So when we talk about acceptable levels of service, a level of service D, for example, would rec would recognize at certain peak times you're gonna have a lot of traffic. It's a way to help optimize the sizing of your roads. We can't build seven lane freeways to have level of service of A at all times. We have to allow peak hour to

4:41:17congest, quite honestly.

4:41:19So what's our grade? What's our letter? What so so what is R? What is the letter then? What's

4:41:28I'll I'll let the expert go. I I heard him say D in this particular case.

4:41:32There's a couple laymans out there, so I'm right there with you here. So thank you.

4:41:38How so for a D, how close are we to is the next one F?

4:41:43Well I think that's what Amir's currently uh calculated.

4:41:45So Yeah, current the the capacity for the rotary segment is about one thousand and four hundred and pm But your volume is going to be 5305. So there are almost 100 trees during from the failure.

4:42:08I'm going to ask a question. This might help you. I know. So let me ask a question. It used to be When we did a P D. We would have the MPUD coming with it. and in it we'd have all the documents for transportation. You guys would normally go through it dissect the whole thing and met maybe part of the report. So when we heard The land use, we would hear the zoning as well at the same time. Not for transmittal.

4:42:32You do that for adoption. And that's and that's what this one is queued up to be, but not you you never uh you couldn't approve the MPUD rezoning and transmit the comprehensive planment to the state because then your zoning would be inconsistent.

4:42:49You couldn't adopt it. But you would have at least that document at at some point early on where they could look at it. I mean we haven't even got the concept planned and we got a new concept plan as of today. I mean if I may,

4:43:04the the idea here, I mean

4:43:08Th so this is a public hearing and the whole purpose of these is basically for people to see the progress of the project and may comment on it. And what we have done in the Planning Development Department is to essentially stagger the comprehensive plan amendments with the consideration of the MPUDs so that we can collect public comment, understand what issues may exist, and then incorporate Having understood and heard all of this, incorporate those concerns into the MPUD conditions of approval. We

4:43:39bring the projects forward to the L PA and to the transmittal hearings if there is one, 'cause sometimes it's just a small scale and then And uh having received public comment and feedback We then take that information and translate it into the MPUD conditions of approval if we're doing an MPUD on such a project. And uh at that point as the county attorney mentioned, marry the two workflows together so that when the adoption comes around for the comprehensive plan amendment there is a complete

4:44:09MP MPUD conditions of approval package that hopefully responds to all of the concerns that have been uh enumerated from from the podium.

4:44:19All right, but Terry, the land use says our plan says the land development code says we do a neighborhood meeting With a full plan shown to the people. Clearly that hasn't been done. Matter of fact, before the Planning Commission was even heard, this was going to be on consent heard over in in Newport Ritchie. We were mandated back so we got a hearing. But even from that point we're getting new information back that if we're going to use the information from the feedback for the people to make something that might work. And again, as the gentleman said, He doesn't think the nine story complex would work? Well maybe if

4:44:49you had the conversation and centralized it, maybe it would have. But we didn't have that. Is is there something wrong with doing that? I mean we just had another development where you actually shut it down because they didn't do what they were supposed to do. Shouldn't this have been shut down by not having the concept plan?

4:45:03Well, I mean a a concept plan was submitted. It has changed over time and the evolution of a concept plan uh in response to comments that are being made by the public both at various neighborhood meetings but also in these proceedings, um, I think is kind of a healthy thing. because it's showing that staff is listening and the applicants are responding to those comments. Um You can't always go to multiple neighborhood meetings that are not

4:45:33being watched by everybody, but you can come to a public hearing which is being watched by everybody.

4:45:41They've got an auditorium that can feel a thousand people. This is not one of those occasions. They could have had everybody in the one room. They were asked to have everybody in one room. They didn't do it, they didn't want to do it. Well

4:45:51I I'm just saying that

4:45:52I think the applicant can probably speak for themselves on that one. one.

4:45:56Mr.

4:45:56Chairman

4:45:57Mr.

4:45:57Chairman Mariano.

4:45:58Let me me go to Commissioner Bradford first.

4:46:00And then I'll be

4:46:01right back. Then Commissioner Starkey. Okay. Commissioner Bradford?

4:46:05You know I uh I ran for this job to uh make decisions and this is a hard one. I want you know I hear everybody. I hear people making million dollars of investment. I hear uh residents saying We want Satterbrook back to its original glory. I remember Saddlebrook. I played golf there. Wasn't very good at it. Don't play golf anymore. Lived on

4:46:35North Dale golf course, lived on Plantation Palms golf course. Cursory knowledge of golf courses. I am in no way an expert like uh a professor.

4:46:49But I would say this. I do believe in transparency.

4:46:56Uh, and I like everything transparent. I want to know what's going on. I want the facts. Whether it's the facts from a developer or facts from the county staff or the facts from a fellow commissioner, I want the facts. I don't want opinions, I want the facts. I get paid to make my own opinion. And uh that's where I'm at right now. So I want to put that on the table. Uh

4:47:29The other thing that a good friend of mine told me when I took this job and one, he said, You do what you think is right. and uh always do what you think is right. And uh I haven't forgotten that. So that's my comment, sir.

4:47:48Mr. Starkey.

4:47:49Yeah, so I have a couple questions. Um I had the county administrator get the map that and this before some of you were on this board. Um and I don't even remember what we call this. What is this called again? Urban service area. Yeah, can you explain what this is and and hey, this has a lot more on it than I wanted to vote for, but commissioners wanted more in their district? So we expanded this. So what is this?

4:48:17So the the urban service area, also known as an urban concentration area.

4:48:24I don't know. I'm having trouble hearing out anyone

4:48:27else. Okay, here we go. So the urban service area, also sometimes referred to as an urban concentration area.

4:48:40I know it's a bad way to define something. But essentially this is where you're going to concentrate all of your utilities. Um you're gonna make this is where you're gonna make your major roadway investments um and this is where you're going to uh try to put as much of a population that you can in order to service them within a smaller geographic area. So the red what you see is the urban service area. Um it it encompasses both both the west market area, which

4:49:10is the coastal portion of Pasco County, and then the South Market area, which is the southern portion, up to about 301. The south market area matches the urban service area. Uh it also includes the uh extensions to the urban service area, which is those um uh finger like extensions that are going the up up the I-75 corridor, uh up around State Road 52, and then those uh areas along Fi State Road 54, north and south of it, um

4:49:40just west of Zephyrhills.

4:49:43Okay, and um uh Commissioner um Bradford was asking when did we adopt this?

4:49:50The urban service area, I believe it was a state mandated requirement. Um do you remember the day? Two thousand ten.

4:49:59And so this is our this is what we call kind of our blueprint for growth and and where where this board and this community, because it was a publicly vetted document, has said we want to put density. Is that correct?

4:50:13Uh yes, the comprehensive plan calls for density within the South Market area and west market area for the urban service area.

4:50:21So um if we if if there is a a company or Someone coming and wanting to invest in our county and they see this map. They know. that this is this is the law kind of that we follow that this is where we say we want density. I mean they make business decisions based on this.

4:50:44Is that correct? They may make business decisions.

4:50:47Yeah, they may make business decisions based on this.

4:50:49Because this is where this is the area that we've said we want density.

4:50:52This is this is where you are supposed to concentrate your infrastructure.

4:50:56Okay.

4:50:57That's

4:50:58And Density.

4:51:02It's an urban service area. That's where you're in you're increasing your s your services. Yes, then the the consequence is that is you can approve more density because you've got facilities to

4:51:16serve. And we just opened overpass on seventy-five, adding more public investment and infrastructure in this area. And I don't know what that hash mark is, but is that

4:51:30I

4:51:30guess some of these hash marks are village of Pasadena Hills and what what

4:51:34are those hash marks that we

4:51:35have to do?

4:51:38Those are extensions?

4:51:39Yes, I think.

4:51:40If you recall this this was developed in the in two thousand two thousand ten is correct. It was but it was developed because Changes in state law. Disadvantaged Pasco County. Unlike Hillsborough County DRIs could not be abandoned. Their the the Dula Which was the which was the name

4:52:10that was given to the dense urban

4:52:15Land something. But anyway, we we devel uh the the Planning Department at the time, uh Strategic Growth Administrator, developed this concept which We fought with Tallahassee about to allow us to create the urban service area and Um and allow increased density. The extensions were areas that Folks wanted

4:52:46to be in the But the state didn't want us to put it in the right-of-way. Said it was premature. So that's what those extension areas are are historically we're all about.

4:52:58Okay. And and so my next question is and I've I've got the I listen to the Planning Commission, like I said. I learn a lot. I get a jump on Um Some of the issues coming when you listen to the Planning Commission. Like I said, I I I heard what the residents were saying about the gate, the school, um, some other things, and so I was able to do my homework and ask those questions. So that's why I put in the time listening to the Planning Commission. And I heard Denise speak. I heard the Planning

4:53:28Commission members. questioning why they didn't have a more detailed plan and I'm looking for it here and I heard Denise explain that this is what do you call it? Um a transmittal

4:53:41transmittal here

4:53:42not not where all those other things get etched in stone or whatever you want to call it. So what what what are they required to submit? What is the depth of design? Because I don't think they were ready for that. I think that's why they didn't have it ready. But and I I I'm not saying that, well, I'll make that comment about their process later, but what were they required to submit for this transmitter?

4:54:12Well I I don't have the actual application uh requirements in front of me to read it off the top of my head. But in general with the planned development, you're going to requ be required to submit a sub area policy that's quite

4:54:24and no one's gonna know what that is, so what is it?

4:54:28Much like there are other policies in the comprehensive plan that are that are uh directing how development should take place within the county. a sub-area policy accompanies that plan development. And it it essentially defines what the development is going to be and also direct it in terms of the design. So in a sub-area policy you can start adding things in there to say, thou shalt have trails, thou shalt do this or that. And uh you can make these broad enumerations

4:54:59within the sub-area policy. At the comprehensive plan uh stage, we're, if you if you can imagine, we're like 30,000 feet. uh in terms of what we're looking at. And then as the project moves through the its life cycle, it then gets lower uh in altitude to maybe 15,000 feet when you start talking about what kind of entitlements are going to fulfill the sub-area policy that's been enumerated. So again going back to the uh plan

4:55:29development, you're gonna have the sub-area policy, you're gonna have a concept plan that's going to illustrate what that sub-area policy could be, but that's not the final plan. Then that plan is going to be worked on and we're going to figure out what kind of conditions are going to be needed in order for this to be properly implemented. That's what the MPUD is going to figure out. But the MPUD is not going to get totally detailed either at that point because it's simply a zoning district. It's setting up the zoning parameters

4:55:59for how this development is going to look. It's going to talk a little bit more detail than what the comprehensive plan did. Again, given feedback and input that's being received from public hearings. And then finally, you're going to come in for a landing when it well, I shouldn't say landing, you're going to come in at about 5,000 feet with the site development, the preliminary site plans and the preliminary development plans that are actually going to design the project. I won't say Landing because landing will be when building permits get issued. But that's

4:56:30basically how you're going to approach a project in every case. So we are going to talk about design. That is the heavy design discussions are going to come at the preliminary site plan stage when we're actually comparing what they're proposing against what's in the MPUD, but also what's what's in the land development code.

4:56:48Okay, so I think I think they've gone pretty they've gone far beyond that um here already. But um that so that was one of my questions. Um and for the planning director, um do you know how many units are in Saddlebrook now?

4:57:07Off the top of my head. So

4:57:08someone will get me that answer.

4:57:10I think the applicant has the information for that.

4:57:12Um and um on the traffic analysis, did that contemplate the overpass being opened? Or was that done before it was open?

4:57:23I I would presume that it was done right before it opened as the transportation needs assessment was submitted in August.

4:57:30Okay, and also um where

4:57:32But Amir Amir can confirm. Oh

4:57:34can I speak on that? Yeah.

4:57:37Uh the usual TNA for transportation is assessment analyzed the twenty forty-five traffic connection. So

4:57:48Uh I the common traffic in DNA so like when for the wire of course would press

4:57:56Okay. So so the answer is the answer is that it did consider overpass open because it was looking at the twenty forty five and um long range Oh. So overpass so it did consider that overpass w would be open. Yeah.

4:58:14Okay. And it passed.

4:58:15Yes.

4:58:16And he says okay, that's my question for the planning director.

4:58:19Commissioner Weightman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

4:58:24So again, I really want to emphasize my question about traffic. What's our letter grade? What's our number? Uh I'm a little disappointed that that's not something that we don't know as we're planning projects that have this level of volume of folks traveling it. Uh I don't know if anybody's traveled overpass lately, but it's a little it's

4:58:55it's full. Um So I guess that's a a good thing, but it's it's full. Um so again I really want to understand uh the the the traffic issue. Um

4:59:14Yeah something that not very clarity on my next question is

4:59:18I'm sorry Commissioner if I could I mean if the applicant comes back up you can obviously ask their traffic engineer the question he has

4:59:27If the transmittal goes through today.

4:59:31We're not obligating the county's not obligating itself. to approve the plan that's been shared with us today. It's merely approving that there's a potential project in a potential area. I want to make sure that that we understand that if it does, if there is a transmittal, that we're not locking ourselves into something that we can't undo or ask questions or modify or work through over the coming weeks, months

5:00:01ahead. So I really want some clarity on the transmittal and what a uh should there be a yes vote, what that means to to us and for the folks out there. That's

5:00:14illegal? Yes. I'll do that one. Um So transmittal gets you the input of state government as to the plan which is being submitted.

5:00:29You have not adopted an ordinance changing the future land use maps. That when transmittal, when DCA sorry Old A DEO Um DEO gets gets the the comprehensive plan package from us. They will look at it. They have X number of days. To make comment and get it back to us prior to our adoption. And then we have so many days to either adopt it. Or

5:01:00turn it down. once it comes back. The only thing that today's transmitter does is it sort of locks in The maximum density that DEO is going to review and comment on. So whatever we're putting in it is all they're going to look at. So it's going to be difficult to add Things like

5:01:30So if it were to Transmitter would were to go forward. Come back. Board says don't like it or whatever. We can come up with a new plan and send another trans move.

5:01:42Yes, I don't see any reason why you couldn't resubmit to to DEO a a comprehensive plan. But you'd you'd e you'd end up turning down that You wouldn't adopt that ordinance which in effect would be denying it, and then you be able you'd start the process over again. Okay.

5:02:04Thank you for

5:02:04that

5:02:04question. Jeff, can I ask how well Mr. Brothers Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh I remember someone saying that the state hardly ever comments on these. Is that a true statement?

5:02:16The The level of commenting from that state agency has decreased dramatically in the last 25 years.

5:02:27Sounds like a lawyer.

5:02:33They They do I mean they comment as Terry.

5:02:38I think in the beginning of this hearing, um they do comment from time to time, but I got it. I'm dating myself, but but back when I started they'd tell you you shouldn't local government, you shouldn't adopt this.

5:02:54I

5:02:54I don't think that that that is gonna happen very much anymore under the

5:02:59sir. So I need to know.

5:03:00Okay.

5:03:03Um any more questions for staff at this point? We'll talk we'll bring it back up later, Terry. Okay. All right, the applicant?

5:03:24It's an unruly amount of notes here, so I have to try to Not drop off my papers. Barbara Wilhite for the applicant. Commissioner Starkey to answer your question regarding the number of units that have been constructed. Um within the Saddlebrook M P U D There's seven hundred and eighteen. There's three hundred and seventy-three resort units in the walking village. There's 172 resort units in the Lakeside Village, and there's 173 residential units in Fairway Village, as confirmed by the zoning administrator in a zoning determination that

5:03:54she made after reviewing a whole bunch of information. Some time ago. We were gonna bring Steve Henry up, but let me just I need to address neighborhood meetings and plans and all these things. We've had multiple neighborhood meetings. We've had no request by anybody that says that they haven't been able to get the information that they need. a lot of attendance at over time at these meetings and a lot of meetings. The concept plan, the MPUD concept plan that I

5:04:24handed out is just that. It's an MPUD concept plan. It has a level of detail that's doesn't belong in the comp plan and it and that's why you have a concept plan. But let me tell you when they stand up there and say they don't have information The first people to see that concept plan was this group.

5:04:43Represented by Miss Jane Graham. We sent it to her before anybody else sa saw it on the twenty fifth of January. We submitted to the county on the twenty-seventh, after we met with them to go over it. We answered all their questions. We asked for comments. We asked for feedback. We didn't get any. To date, we still don't have any. I don't think you've got any feedback on anything that they would like to see us change. they oppose and want you to deny our ability to move forward. But

5:05:13they have the information. We provide the information. We've had community meetings and provided the information. So the information is there. Staff didn't include the MPD consulate plan in your package because it doesn't relate to the comp plan. But what happens is when I try to When we try to do what we're supposed to do in the comp plan, everybody asks for more detail. Then we give more detail and then we get criticized about giving more detail. So it's really a classic can't win situation where I can tell you

5:05:43that we're giving all the information, we're being transparent, we're having those community meetings, we're meeting with people, and but still there's this question of on information. We have a very specific PD con PD sub-area plan. That meets the requirements of exceeds the requirements of your um comprehensive plan as to what you need to do for a PD. Plan development. Um c call for an amendment to move forward. We have a sub-area policy that's got the guiding principles in

5:06:14it. We've got a specific plan that says what we're going to do where. And let me tell you there was w a criticism about the land use equivocate exchange matrix. I'm fine with just taking it out. Because we can stand here and tell you that what we proposed on that sub area plan is what we're going to do. So it's to give flexibility, that's why you do a land use equivalency matrix is to give flexibility. But we're willing to say what we've got.

5:06:39Can you explain what that is? Because

5:06:42one of the criticisms of our our documents that we heard today, Obviously could have heard this before. but we're not hearing that kind of communication. We're not getting communication with the Save Side of our coalition folks, we're not getting any communication. Um unlike the Condo Association where we've worked with them every day, daily, about where things are gonna be located, what things are gonna look like. And you can hear they were here today in support because of that level of work we've done with them. The criticism was about

5:07:12the land use equivalency matrix. It says in the subway policy of the comp plan, it says here's What's being a what's the maximum here's the uses That are allowed in the component and here's the maximums. It's got multifamily and a number. It's got townhomes and a number. Um the yes, yes.

5:07:35And so the the the report we just got with the minuscule font that none of us can read? Yeah, we're not.

5:07:41No, you have a subway policy that you can read in your package.

5:07:46Yeah, you you can you you have a subway policy in your package you can read that's exactly what the density is.

5:07:52Look at the font size of that. You get all this white space down here and look at the font size you guys picked. And we get this right before the meeting.

5:08:02So back to the question Commissioner Starkey asked. in the land use subway policy, which you can all read, it's in your package, it provides for the ability to do a land use equivalency matrix exchange. So it says here's w the uses that are being approved and the maximum units and square footage, but it says, oh, but we can change those numbers through the MPUD. And so there was a criticism regarding that. What I'm telling you is that I'll take that out. We don't have to have any flexibility. We're so confident what we've asked for in our comp plan

5:08:32because we've analyzed this and gone over this for a very long time. That the densities and intensities and the uses in that complaint, we don't need to exchange them. We don't need to change them at the MPUD. So we can have the comp plan look just like the MPUD. So What I'm telling you is that We know what we're gonna need to do, we know what we want to do. And we don't need to change things. without coming back through a public hearing process. So I just want to offer that to you Um again to tell you that every time I hear a concern we address

5:09:02the concern and that's the only concern that I heard. That I said, okay. I'm fine with that. I can live with not changing anything at the MPD level. I'll live with what we have in our comp plan and what we're proposing will be the same as what we have in the in the zoning. So I wanted to throw that out there. Let me um Have Our transportation consultant come up. There's quite a few questions regarding that. So I want to uh make sure that uh he can explain that to you.

5:09:30Before we get to transportation, I want to just bring up a point. Um On the

5:09:38Agenda item I got here. It was nineteen seventy-nine. We talked about the development conference facilities up to five hundred people, nine hundred and fifty sailable condos to the resort complex, um, a new nine holes of golf. And then it says in here A road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest and have adequate alternatives for fire protection. So the service road to the side was designed specifically to give fire trucks go that way as well as all the

5:10:07other trucks. The drive coming in, the road system setting in as you drive in where that range was, was designed to be, as Mrs. Barbetta showed, how the look came out. So when you look me in the eye and look at these board members in the eye and tell us that you listened to what their complaints were and you've addressed them. You're missing the point. They don't want the apartments. I don't know how you missed that.

5:10:33I didn't say that I satisfied them. I said I said that I answered I said that I answered the questions.

5:10:43You're not gonna satisfy everybody.

5:10:50Yeah, well I I have a question on that.

5:10:52So I just want to make sure you understand that, you know, uh the numbers for if we're talking about

5:10:57it Barbara this board asked you To have a meeting with everybody. Now, whether you wanted to do it or didn't want to do it, it didn't get done. You have the capacity to meet everybody in one shot and it didn't happen.

5:11:08But you didn't do what the

5:11:09board asked you to do.

5:11:10Well the board didn't ask me. You asked, Commissioner, you asked, Chairman Mariano.

5:11:14We had consensus. That's correct. You asked. And we had consensus.

5:11:17Well, I don't believe that to be true. I believe that we have had community meetings, we have had adequate community meetings other than these seventeen people Rest of people have got the information. They have the information, by the way. I'm not sure what else you would achieve in a community meeting other than giving information and receiving comments. And we've done that over and over and over, and we do that outside of meetings. So format of meetings. The fact is that we've had meetings, we've given all the information out, we've received comments from people that want to comment and work with us. And then there's a group. That

5:11:48don't want to work with us, that want you to deny us, and that's what they've come here today and are asking you to do. That doesn't move this project forward. Well moving this project forward is looking at it and with Commissioner Starkey asked, do we have the information That we provided required by the code and the and the comp plan to transmit a comp plan amendment to start this process. The answer from staff is yes. My answer is yes. We actually exceed the information. that we're supposed to send for transmittal. So

5:12:19And by the way, we're decreasing units. So all of the conversation about impact on resources, the Comm Plan allows 1,779 units. We're reducing that. We're reducing your comp plan to six hundred and twenty. And that's where I actually want to talk have Steve Henry talk to you because he actually did an analysis that he's not required to do. Because I told him go ahead and do the analysis. Because if you look at Do an analysis, transportation needs assessment, because if you look at those trips that that 1779

5:12:49number generates versus what we're reducing the comp plan trip generation to do, it's actually a reduction. not an increase. So with that I would I'd really like for him to talk to you about the transportation issues. Let me look at my notes and make sure that my team is gonna answer the rest of the questions that were raised, but let's let's have him talk to you about transportation if you would.

5:13:17Good evening. Steve Henry, Lingston Associates. We did conduct the transportation needs assessment. So first I want to talk about the some of the comments that we got. And as far as the analysis we did, as Barbara had indicated, we did it actually two different ways. And I'll talk about the first way, which is actually above and beyond what is required in the code. Uh but that's what we submitted and we compared what the current the uh land use or the M PUD would allow for the total project

5:13:48versus what we're proposing, including the total project. And so the comments that we got were the study area. That was the first one. The study area wasn't big enough. And if you look at the code under the transportation timing and phasing analysis, it says you had about 5% is what you look at as far as your study network determination. We are actually less than 5% beyond where we studied. So we in fact, the study network that is in our analysis is more than adequate based on your code. The second comment was the distribution. uh

5:14:19that the uh the intersection of Saddlebrook Way is 72% to the west. Well that today is primarily residential. When you look at what we're doing, we're we're doing a mixed use. We're doing commercial and residential. So in addition to that, we also looked at the intersection of Wiregrass, Boulevard, and 54. When you look at that distribution, it's actually 54% to the west. So when you take those two and you average them, it comes out to be about 65%. what we used in the analysis. So we think given that

5:14:49we're doing a mixed use development here, the distribution that's in our analysis is a adequate and actually matches what you would expect to be out there with a mixed use development.

5:14:59Question for you?

5:14:59Yes. So you did from Waggrass Boulevard in fifty four. We did from County Road, uh we did from State Road five eighty one to Curly Road. Okay. And and when you look beyond those two segments, we are less than five percent.

5:15:14Okay. Did you did you compare uh what happens at seventy-five as well?

5:15:18No, because seventy-five is beyond that area of we again when we look at study areas, we look at where you're at five percent. We're less than five percent. We could have studied many roads in the county, but that was the criteria that the county established and we used for the study.

5:15:35Uh do you think if we were gonna uh do a a more thorough plan and let's say really take a look at this in depth? Being that we advertise Saddle Books advertise half hour from the airport. All the trips coming from seventy five. Do you think we should have

5:15:49looked at what that number would be?

5:15:53is normally required for a needs assessment. What that is is looking at what the project would generate. So today As Barbara had indicated, the Res 6 would allow 1,779 residential units. That's the basis. Then we look at what we're changing, that portion of the project that we're asking for the change, the PD. When you look at the traffic that we would generate, it's actually less traffic. In fact, it's about 600 PM peak hour trips less

5:16:25than what it what the current Res 6 would allow. Based on that, we would not even be required to do a traffic study at all. That we would stop at that point. But instead, we went ahead and did the analysis for that segment. Of roadway in which we are greater than 5%. Beyond that, we're not required. But the reality is we're not required to do a study at all. But we did one.

5:16:49So if we're gonna do a study if I have any any value to it. No part pr for most of our DRIs that were approved years ago, I don't think any

5:16:59Mr. County Attorney? They they over over allocated, so that's all factored. But when you say the res six designation, and you're talking about the units that they can get, are you basing upon the golf course in the driving range and all the common areas to be all res six and and you Units on them?

5:17:15I th those are the numbers that I and I'll I'll defer to our planners because those I I'm just given the numbers to use and I s and well what we do whenever we do these is we say, okay, What is the maximum number that would allow it under Res six? And and I'm actually giving I'm not a land use planner, I'm just a traffic guy. They tell me the land uses and I run the numbers. But but that is based on what And again, we do this on all of them. They're always the same. Whatever the area. that we're doing and the comp plan would allow That's what we run the numbers on. And again, but what

5:17:45but we didn't do but that's just Looking at it from a standpoint of would we do announcement? We went ahead and did the analysis anyway based on the total project. All right, so back to we don't have that information so we'll have to ask for it later. Uh but so then so then the other question is you y y as far as the level of service and the the what we call the VC ratio, because what you've adopted in your code is a VC ratio of 1.0. But the reality is, because we're in the urban service area, If we

5:18:15do a what's called a mixed use uh trip production project, which is Mudarum project for short. We actually are allowed to have a one point two DC ratio. And what we're doing in Area One is a Mudderum project. So the reality is And and this is something that the the board adopted to help to to develop mixed use projects that help reduce the traffic on the road by by the that mixed use, we'd actually be allowed to have a 1.2. But again, this one and the

5:18:45other issue is on on level of service. This is a 2045 analysis. So we are looking at volumes Twenty forty five. based on the cost affordable plan, which does include The overpass. And those so this is a projection based on the county's model that they've used those volumes. We're using a twenty forty five volumes to look at this analysis. Now we come in for the M P U D We'll do a more detailed analysis as far as looking at specific intersections

5:19:15and looking at actual counts and seeing what the impact is of a project from that standpoint.

5:19:21Let me ask this as far as you're doing your s you when you talk about doing mudderum for trip reduction measures, um When I look at a development like this, an MPUD, it's a little different than just regular development coming in to go put on the edge of a project or an edge of a roadway where it's going to be built. But it You you guys would never look at the fact of let's say if they had more density to the center of the development, where people might stay in the development, never leave the resort to use the amenities there. You don't factor that in, you just go by the mudderm based upon the data the counties used.

5:19:51No,

5:19:52no, no. The Mudderum is is purely just from our standpoint is purely a test as to whether or not we are a Mudderham project. From a traffic standpoint, we do look at the internal capture. We look at where they are within the re in the project and the type of developments to determine the internal capture that based on a MudroM project. And the only way to be a MudroM project is to be a mixed use project. But as far as the actual MUDRM, from our standpoint, it's purely whether it's a one or a one point two. But

5:20:22we do look at that internal capture, yes. Commissioner Starkey?

5:20:25Um we heard a lot about traffic, um people worried that they're lifestyle is gonna change inside the golf course. Um because but that that complex out front is right at the very front. Um So, I mean you don't anticipate the park do we are we anticipating apartment people are are gonna be driving around Saddlebrook and coming back out to go into their apartments. I I was trying to figure out

5:20:51Well we we we are we are building the Vision Road on the west side. So we're build we're building that portion. The the initial construction of that will be right in, right out. Ultimately, that will be a full signalized intersection with fifty-four. Uh and obviously that vision road will go to um Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard.

5:21:08So a lot of traffic for that apartment and that mixed use development will be over there on the vision road.

5:21:12Yeah, so ultimately that that's the that's the plan. The initial construction of it will be right in, right out, but ultimately a signal will be there. And that's part of what we're looking at as far as the MPUD is the specific analysis of the accesses, the division road, the initial construction of the vision road, and the intersection. And that's one of the reasons why I think Barbara showed in the initial presentation the additional geometry that we're putting at the intersection of Saddlebrook Way. and fifty four to help with that traffic.

5:21:41And um something that didn't come up but I asked about it in my meeting with the developers is the um the residents of Saddlebok don't have to drive to the shops and restaurants, the eatertainment area. They can use their golf course golf carts, they're making a golf cart path to the complex, is that correct? Or bike or walk their dogs to it? Okay. Okay, thank you. I that's all I have on track.

5:22:09I don't know if there's any other questions for me. Commissioner

5:22:11Weightman I do I do uh maybe it's just something for rookie but I I'm still not clear on this traffic

5:22:18thing.

5:22:19I I mean just because you have a one point two availability doesn't mean it's appropriate. I I don't know how much you travel through there and the number of red lights. I know you're saying you're gonna reduce it from seventeen hundred plus to six hundred and twenty uh trips per peak time. Uh what how did you say that?

5:22:39Well quick. So what we looked at was the what could be built There today under the Res 6 versus what we're proposing, which was a reduction in what could be built there of the of the 600. But getting to your point on the VC ratio, that was what the County Board of County Commissioners elected to do to entice these types of developments. Because otherwise, if you end up with just subdivision after subdivision, then shopping center after shopping center, everybody's getting on the road. So

5:23:09the idea was to try to entice people to then build these mixed use projects to then reduce that traffic on the road. And so that's what the Board of County Commissioners adopted was this the V C ratio. And it's only for that urban area. It is once you go outside the urban area you don't get that same V C ratio. So it's only looking at Yeah, the dense urban area where where they want where you want growth. and then trying to entice that mixed use type

5:23:40development.

5:23:4245 year plan when we came up with this formula.

5:23:47That we anticipate new publics going in, Walmart going in, everything that's going in on that 54 Bruceby Down corridor, we anticipated all that coming in. And adding this, knowing it bottlenecks all the way through when you travel. Well. We had a crystal ball and predicted that. Like I'm try you know, going off history, just because the rules say one thing doesn't necessarily mean it's appropriate. Is uh w where

5:24:17I'm getting, you know, does the shoe fit? where I'm at kind of understanding. So anyway. Thank you for the

5:24:27absolute I have one more question. Mr. Shark and maybe maybe it's for you, maybe it's for someone else. But Jack, you were talking about putting that density inside the middle of Saddlebrook and leaving the golf the driving range where it is. But wouldn't that generate a lot more traffic in front of all these people's houses? So that that would be a concern to me. So

5:24:49think

5:24:49of it this way. I I look at it when I go there, it's a it's an area where you can walk your dog on the street and kids can ride their bikes. It's a very peaceful community. Right. And um,

5:25:02inside rather than outside, does not make sense to me.

5:25:06Right. That would increase the traffic internal to South. Yes, correct.

5:25:10So Commissioner Starkey consider this. You've got people coming in from a hotel, they're gonna come into the resort, they're gonna stay there. They're not generally speaking gonna go out. They're trip. C capture pretty much when you have a high end steakhouse, when you have a Another place like tropics when you get a spa when you get thirty-six holes of golf when you get a drive-in range you get a full set of activities and a giant pool uh that's designed to have people stay right there. And I mean I've gone to stay there and guess what? I stayed there, I didn't leave.

5:25:40Well I

5:25:40would let me let me finish please let me finish

5:25:43entertainment area.

5:25:44You you you asked me a question. Let me finish the question. There's one

5:25:47store inside.

5:25:49So if you're

5:25:51not going to be able to do

5:25:51And for and for shopping, yeah, great, we've got a great opportunity to go go do that. There's movie stores, etcetera. But as far as like to go there, to do all the things that are in there, that's the attraction of it. That's why it's the crown jewel of Tasco Comedy. When you have all those people it'll be When you have all those people that could stay right to the center and walk to all these things. That's what I say it's better for trip generation if they had it internal compared to when you put it out on fifty four and all those people there in the apartments, those demographics don't fit the high end saddlebrook. They're gonna go

5:26:21out on they don't

5:26:23know what price point they're gonna be having.

5:26:25It's it's just the way it is with apartments compared to

5:26:28the

5:26:28high end people coming in.

5:26:29I think it's better to have that density outside of Saddlebrook than in inside and let the kids ride their bikes and people walk their dogs.

5:26:37Well other than the people the other two people in the audience so far you're

5:26:40Well I'm gonna ask how many people are okay, let me go ahead and ask this question while you're coming back up Barbara, whatever. Of the lady who the attorney. Were you an attorney? Um yes. If I if I could ask you a question. And I'm sorry I've already forgotten how many residents are in. Uh sound for the How many total units are there, sir? Seven hundred and eighteen. Okay, I started to write it but I it all went so fast I couldn't do it. Render seventy three condos,

5:27:11is that right? Wait, say that again. Barbara, come on up. You can stand two attorneys standing together.

5:27:21No women.

5:27:26Oh, okay. Okay, so 373 resort units, 172 resort units. Oh different villages. Um

5:27:39Well, how many houses are there? 173? Is that right? No, no. No. Can I answer that? Yeah, yeah, someone answered his question. And and I don't want the attorney to leave. Okay. She's scoring

5:27:49it. So in

5:27:50the

5:27:51right-of-way, we can Larry Barbetta from um [address removed]. So there is about a hundred and ninety some roughly in the Fairway village. Uh area. What is that? Is are those apartments? No, those are residential homes. That's the Fairway Village H Ouses. Houses. Single family houses or what they call cluster homes, which are townhouses, but those are again side by side houses. Nobody else lives above

5:28:21you, below you, right? Okay. There's that. There's a there's ninety sum odd, okay. It can change day by day, like upper nineties in what we call South.

5:28:32Those are all houses. All houses, all permanent residents. Okay. There's a small association we like the Ladybug Lane area that is eight buildings and thirty-two units. That's its own little mini association. Okay, so thirty-two doorknobs. Does that help you? And those are re those are residents, they're not rental. Okay, well okay, I can help you. You're two eighty Plus thirty two. Okay, so you're 312, then you've got twelve units

5:29:02that are town homes called Villadesta. So I add twelve. Okay.

5:29:07Okay, and how many single family homes are there?

5:29:11Um basically you could count Um About 280 plus are single family homes. That's in those two associations. Then there's those quads we call them. I'm sorry, that's the one that's the eight buildings with thirty-two units. Villodesta is like that. There's also In what they call the lakeside area, which is part of the condo association, but those are the ones that do have an ability to Airbnb. Okay, they're not in the hotel rental

5:29:41pool. That's about a hundred and forty. condos there.

5:29:46Okay. 'Cause well I saw um thirteen or fourteen houses that are not condos that are in the B R B.

5:29:54We looked at that. There's three. It depends on what association you're in. Again, Lakeside has the ability to rent them out. Saddlebrok has clamped down. There's some people that are grandfathered in and people that break the rules. We that was voted. Yeah. But there's three houses. We looked after your question. We there's three today. One is listing it a couple times.

5:30:13Thank you so much. So my question for the attorney is how many people are in your group that you're representing? How many people are signed up? And paying or whatever, paying into your group.

5:30:26So that's something I also I think that you can speak to. Now the group includes both the f the fair way and I don't I don't mean people who

5:30:34came to a meeting. I mean people who are paying for your salary to represent them.

5:30:38Right. So I can speak to the associations and then he can speak to other the actual numbers. It includes two of the home. Owner associations.

5:30:47That's not what I'm asking.

5:30:48The fair way, but I'm going if you let me finish, what I can tell you is that as a representation, they re the there was a vote for these individual homeowner associations and they voted to retain to become part of the Saddle Save Saddlebrook Coalition. Fairway has 190 and Saddlebrook POA has what is it, ninety something.

5:31:11Ninety five. So did a hundred percent of those residents vote to retain you?

5:31:16The the board members did. They are

5:31:18a false statement. That's what I'm kinda getting on the record. No it's not.

5:31:23The board mem there's a vote, just like how a HOA works. You have a vote, a majority vote, and the majority is voted to have the board of the board. Yes Of the boards, yeah. And uh Mr uh Pat Hogan is here from Fairway. And um Nancy is here too. And Nancy is here as well. They can speak to the votes. We're not m misrepresenting anything. And I I do take um a little bit of offense to that that, you know, you would make it seem like I am misrepresenting a fact as an attorney. I would not have to be a good thing. I just wanted

5:31:53to know how many people are signed up 'cause we get a lot we we go through a lot of these and Um sometimes people are very vocal but they're not representing the majority. It happens a lot. So we have to be careful.

5:32:09Well we've worked pretty hard on that and we've met like they said. We uh the the boards had the authority, that's what the boards do, and the reason we formed this was b for a variety of reasons, such as like most of the boards have elections that would be in the middle of this decision cycle. So we could end up not having an attorney retained. They start and stop. and a bunch of other good reasons, so that's why we did that. Beyond that we also have probably about seventy some odd different individuals that have signed up so far. And the

5:32:39amounts can vary. We do it I mean we if someone has five bucks and they want to put it in, that's fine. We don't make a profit. We are gonna redistribute back to every homeowner and every HOA on a pro rata basis, whatever they paid that we don't use. You know, we're I mean, goodness, we're you know, I we have real jobs that we are not doing as well because we're dealing with it. You did a great job. Okay, so we're not and and you know please

5:33:07know how much you guys how what are the population you represent? Well

5:33:11I mean you know

5:33:12And that's a fair question.

5:33:13It is a perfectly fair question and I and I hope we've represented it with complete genuine uh you know and transparency. Okay. Thank you.

5:33:20Thank you very much.

5:33:25Commissioner Oakley

5:33:29gave you are Not all of this project are within the m MPUD. Which is odd. But there are some homes that aren't within the M P. Some of the things that some of those units are not within the M P. So the determination that staff made was relative to units that are constructed within the M P U D and they went and pulled all the records and and and and make it more complicated it was yeah, so that's so that's why those Numbers are a little bit different because we're looking at it from the MPUD perspective and they're looking at it from M

5:34:00P U D and non M PU D 'cause remember this dates back to nineteen eighty six, so it's You know, it's not the way everything always appears today when we do these types of zonings. So that just wanna explain that difference.

5:34:14Yes. Uh

5:34:15we

5:34:15finished. Go ahead. No, no, that was all I was gonna say. I said Jordan had a few things he w he wanted to address relative to things said about master or the like, but I would love to answer your question, Commissioner.

5:34:26I don't I don't have a question. I was gonna try to bring this in for a landing. Well I have

5:34:31a question. Um so let's bring up Jordan then. Okay. Thank you.

5:34:43Thank you all. So I just wanted to go through some of the things said and, you know, make clear that ninety five percent of the comments that came out of the thirteen people that spoke against us, we agree with, right? We want the golf course to be better. They talk about protecting their house views. Our D restriction in fact does that. Today they have no protection, right? There is no HOA protection over that golf course today in any way whatsoever in its own Dres Six as we talked about. You know, they a lot of history of the tennis players that came through Saddleburgh. We are aligned and the majority

5:35:13of our plan is aligned with them. So, you know We talked Barbara mentioned it, but you know, there's really no concrete feedback for us to change our plans from what we've seen. Um going through some of the specific points that that were raised. You know, uh Mr. Barbetta talked about 20 courts and the discrepancy between courts and tennis courts. Him and I actually spoke last week at one of the community meetings which he was present at, and I assured him it was 20 of the 27 tennis courts in my presentation. I specifically said change the language there versus otherwise

5:35:44to give that assurance. And again, had he been willing to work with us, we would change that language. We'd give him that assurance. But he continues to bring it up despite that happening and despite us showing it as part of our plan. You know, I asked him as part of that, that we presented multiple weeks ago our plan and we presented over and over again when we'd have feedback and the answer I got is you represent too many people, it's going to be a very long time. There's nothing for us to do for that. Um You know, changes to our plans is a c concern that's come up. The reasons our plans have changed is because we have worked with a significant majority

5:36:14of this community and we have addressed their comments. So if if we our plans weren't changing, it's it would be because we weren't addressing the comments. You know, about half of the number of people showed up here today from our planning department meeting, for all of you who watched it. I strongly believe that's because their concerns were addressed. They no longer showed up. You know, getting into there was talks about the 27-hole golf course and that there's no eighteen-hole course. There's actually three eighteen-hole courses. You have an A9, a B9, and a C9, and you

5:36:44can combine A and B, B and C, and A and C. So there's three different eighteen-hole courses that exist there. Um so the idea that there's not a single eighteen-hole course is just false. Um you know we will have three different options for an eighteen-hole course. Um Yeah. Yeah, there's talks a lot about not having concrete plans for our renovation. Renovating all the existing buildings that are there takes a lot of time, planning, and effort, and given the age of the building. We've shared with every community a very detailed presentation that goes space by space

5:37:14with our resort plans. So everybody knows exactly what our plans are. So a comment that we haven't shared our plans is just wrong. And they're not fully finalized yet, they're evolving, but we have shared all of the plans that we have to date with the homeowners. Um Uh talking about our apartment buildings, Ocean Walk, we haven't owned for five years. So the comment that actually five years ago, the comments were good and now they're bad. Well, five years ago is when we owned it, so I think that's actually an endorsement for our ability to oversee apartments.

5:37:45Uh and the other building that was shown had damage post-Hurricane Arma, and we had residents that chose to continue to live there through those repairs related to the storm, and you know it was unfortunate. Unfortunately, because we were doing those repair works, not perfect, but we did the best we could given we got hit by a hurricane. Um

5:38:06That's

5:38:09Well while you while you think about your next thing, let me just let me just c comment to what you just said. So think about the people here on Sadwork and one of them people mentioned it earlier in their comments. What's going to happen 20, 30 years down the road? You just mentioned what if you guys just come in here? You go build the apartments. Make all your money and you decide look, you know what, we're just gonna move on. And now somebody else comes in here and they leave it behind, just like the people that suffered before. What are these people that

5:38:35do then? So ultimately, if our plan was to do that, again, we've spent five million on our ownership to date, we're spending five million dollars this year. If we were planning to leave the resort behind, it's been 15 years since there's been any capital investment. Would it be at all a rational business decision for us to spend $10 million in a resort that we're actually not going to improve the full way? I mean, it it's and plus, as we all know, this resort is losing. Money today, right? The resort loses money. That's that is no secret. Um it's

5:39:06not like this the resort is a amazing saleable asset. We want to improve the entire community. The deed restriction also speaks to how much we value the community because again, there's no requirement on us to do that. Um so I think we have shown our intentions, and I think every step of the way, we've shown you know that we are doing the right thing, we've answered questions. Um And so I think that speaks louder than anything else we could do.

5:39:29Well, I'll I'll say this. You know, we asked for the big town hall meeting. Uh why didn't you have a meeting with everybody there in one shot? Why did you do separate meetings for everybody?

5:39:36Tell me that. Ul ultimately we decided to have different meetings with all the different associations. Uh you know, the capacity of the room. We don't have A the same A V level to do in the uh Seriously uh as easily. But you know, at the end of the day, required by code, we're we can have different meetings, right? And so we chose to have different meetings logistically. We everybody had a chance to speak. You know, again, I spoke with members of this coalition as part of those. Meetings, none of the concerns raised here were raised to me, right? They all had a chance to go. Barbara

5:40:06mentioned how many people were were noticed to it. You know, whether it's one meeting or three meetings, I'm not sure what the distinction is between that. Every single person got the same presentation, every single person had public question and answer. There's meeting minutes that we have regarding that meeting. And after almost every meeting, I stayed two hours to talk to people. And And you know, that's a significant amount of time. Lots of quiz questions raised, but almost nothing of what was brought up here was brought up to us in those settings and in those meetings.

5:40:38Uh I I have to

5:40:39Commissioner Weightman.

5:40:40Okay. I'm

5:40:43laying in the plane.

5:40:44Oh no, but I saw it.

5:40:47It is not yet nine o'clock. Um okay, I have a question for you and and um so I'm a member of a golf club. It's called Cypher Sword.

5:41:00It is an I think it's an equity golf club. What's the difference between an equity golf club and a non-equity golf club?

5:41:08So if you're part of an equity golf club, you actually are a part owner of the club itself versus a non-equity membership where you just are a member with with membership rights.

5:41:18Is Saddlebrook an equity or non-equity?

5:41:21Non-equity.

5:41:22So what does that mean to my fellow board members who may not know the difference? As far as the responsibility, I mean one is a business. And the other one is everyone who lives there is in the business, right?

5:41:38Cr correct. If you're part of an equity club, you you own part of that club. If there's improvements, you're gonna pay for part of those improvements. Um you know if there's excess profitability, you're gonna ultimately benefit from that. If you're a non-equity member If we're making improvements, that's 100% on us ultimately. We're responsible for those costs. You continue to have your membership rights. There's club documents that obviously dictate what can and can't happen and what rights you have, etc. But you know, as an equity member, you actually own

5:42:08that club.

5:42:09So I'm guessing and Um that when people bought in Saddlebrook there was some kind of covenants when you move into a neighborhood like that regarding or is I mean, were there any rules regarding the business of the golf course? No and clubs That so there's a difference when you live in an equity golf community and a non-equity golf community. And I think that's part of what's brought so much angst here today. And I I feel for the residents,

5:42:39but they're in a non-equity golf community, and there is a difference.

5:42:46And further than that, I'd even say that a lot of HOAs that aren't even equity golf communities have provisions in the HOA documents themselves dictating what can and can't happen to that golf course. That does not exist here, right? Our deed restriction does that. So, you know, the talk of protecting views and the talk of you know wanting the golf course to be a golf course. You know, none of that has existed in the past. So I understand people bought based on those views, but to be clear, none of that was rooted in any document that they were stepping into or

5:43:16any right they had. That was just their personal, you know, thought. What we're doing is protecting those views for them. So we actually are putting something in place that has not existed.

5:43:26So uh I know it it's not at the level of detail today that you required, but one of one of the other things I heard at the Planning Commission, and I heard it again here today, and uh and one of the residents told me about this, and I won't recall if he's the one who ended up coming to my office, is when you drive in, it is a stunning entrance. It is lushly landscaped and it's a really nice entrance. Um and he said that the residents paid for that landscaping, not

5:43:57necessarily Mr. Dempsey. And so um as we go forward, if this goes forward, I would hope that the lushness and the um beautiful feel of the entrance that those people have invested in is there. So I tried to see on your plans what the landscape would look like on both sides. I'm just hoping that you'll you know, with the history of that investment that that is going to be very lush

5:44:27still.

5:44:29Yes, and I'd also say that if you look at it today, um a lot of the plants there have lost their luster and there's a lot of improvements that can ultimately be made. So you know and that's obviously important to us, right? As many people had mentioned, that that is the arrival to Saddlebrook, that is that first impression, um and and it and it is important. So, you know, I actually think we can enhance that arrival experience versus you know what it looks like today.

5:44:53Commissioner Weightman. Thank you.

5:44:55Thank you. Uh What a great day. It's a Tuesday, right? So I want to thank Ms. Wilhite and the Mass team. Um do

5:45:07you have any more

5:45:07questions for Mass

5:45:08at

5:45:08this point? No, sir. No, sir, no more questions.

5:45:10Okay. All right. Um I'm just gonna make one comment to it. Uh and I don't mean

5:45:19I feel that when I go into let's say the Saddambrook Resort, you go into li the lobby, there's a giant picture that shows the whole golf course that's there. It shows the layout of everything that's there. I think when these people signed up years ago, they had an expectation to what they were gonna get. I think they were when they were buying their properties through Mr. Dempsey, this was what was gonna happen. I don't know if they really have the authority to be able to come in and change everything that's out there. So when he says there's no protection to

5:45:49the golf course and having the golf course there, I'm gonna question that. Am I right?

5:46:03There have been lawsuits between residents and golf course owners about preserving what they thought they bought into. Not very many, if any of them, that I'm aware of have been successful without some underlying document that gave them the those rights. Um I mean look at the links in your in your district. There's not much you can do about

5:46:34a private uh private provider, uh a property owner who owns a golf course who doesn't want to maintain it or doesn't want to use it as a golf course any longer.

5:46:45Well, there is a situation where we have a determination from the growth management director, Terry Pitos, to the Lynx golf course person that they're by planting a tree farm is in direct violation with the development agreement, which isolates one hundred and twenty seven acres.

5:47:02That's an entirely different point than whether they whether they could just abandon the golf course, which is a question you asked. It

5:47:10says in the development agreement it has to be a golf course. That's what it says. It's got a list of matrixes that you can switch out. In the whole matrix switch, it goes from residential, multi-family, on the matrix you can switch, and it goes over to you can do assisted living facility, commercial, and retail. It doesn't not allow for the golf course to be changed on the Matrix. I think there's a protection there. And I don't know what the documents are here. I haven't seen them all the way through, which is why I like to see more detail from a this project coming

5:47:40forward, knowing the MPD's coming behind it.

5:47:48You asked the question about whether or not

5:47:53And what my answer to you is that most folks have not been successful on those challenges.

5:47:59Okay. Mr. Wigan, before I let you go, I just want to make one comment.

5:48:04Uh

5:48:05one side.

5:48:24Pardon me, we only got 35,000 papers, yeah.

5:48:29Ah well. Yeah it is. Alright. So after watching What was going on with this, having having several meetings. Uh I went to David Goldstein, who's the attorney for the planning director, assistant county attorney, and I asked him pretty much, you know, give me the list of reasons for denying a rezoning of land use. Here's what he said about land use. He says comprehensive plan y land use amendments are legislative decisions and can be denied for just

5:48:59about any reason, as long as it's not arbitrary and capricious. Depending on the facts of a particular case, we would typically cite reasons such as lack of compatibility, inadequate supporting infrastructure public services, or lack of internal consistency with other comp plan goals and objectives and policies. So I just want to read that to you before you bring in for your landing here. Okay.

5:49:23Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's a very fair statement.

5:49:28Where's the pine kids? Oh did they? Oh well this is the best homework I guess you can have. You know, uh I get the sense that we're all at an impasse. Some board members. the the mast and in their project in the residence. And I want to thank everybody for doing their part to make progress happen, keep a good sense of

5:49:58life while moving forward and increasing value to anybody. And I think this board and everybody here recognizes how special and unique Saddlebrook is. So we'll pull a rookie card being a new commissioner with new information coming out today of the board meeting that I hadn't seen previously. And I've got a list of questions, they're working staff questions. I think we all might have those that I want answered.

5:50:29And I think I've made that clear, especially on the traffic issue, among others. Like spend some more time meeting with the applicant, getting some assurances and some understanding on what we're looking like going forward, what the final plan. Is it? I think there's good progress b being made. I think everybody kind of saw

5:51:02So that I can review and ask questions thoroughly and in detail with staff and the applicant before making a a decision. Mr.

5:51:13Chairman Mariano.

5:51:19We have a motion of second. So the commissioner has since the commissioner said he was pulling the rookie card, I will ask you Do you want it continued to a date certain? March seventh would be your next aid city meeting. I can pull the next the April meeting. If you're gonna continue it And you don't want re advertising, which is what we normally would do in this situation. It needs to be consider continued to a date certain. Let's do a a date certain here and date city. You went

5:51:49the April meeting? Uh yeah.

5:51:50Commissioner Weightman?

5:51:55Thank you. Thank you. And

5:51:56you notice he said dates that you didn't notice that. Yeah.

5:52:02Give yourself plenty of time. We're just hearing there now. I mean in the in the documents we've got they were negotiating with Donald Palmer and some others. They now pick Jones. They got details to to to look at there. They've can look at many other things with what's coming up before they can do the traffic information. You might ask for more traffic information, which you can go do so I mean y as a resident commissioner. And I will I will say that. Mm. Something that I've talked about with them is I don't mind whatever type of incentives we could possibly do. And that

5:52:32would mean like working with Swift Mund to go clean out the golf course areas that are silted up, using some of the money they put in every year for their stormwater utility fund to use that money to help clear that out to make it more affordable to go do so. Could we even help with the drains? I don't mind if we look at Being this that this will be a very more beneficial if they put a more concentrate concentrated development in the center to give them some relief for the impact fee they may pay or even to give some economic incentives

5:53:03that we can. And whatever tourism monies we can help if we're gonna do something like we were gonna do years ago at the tennis stadium. Whatever creatively you can do to work with those guys, uh, I wanna help them. I want them to succeed. I want Saddlebrook to go back to that high level and I think it can. And I think everybody on the board has heard that, seen that, and everybody agrees to it. But it's just a matter of how do you get there. And clearly. Just like that one apartment complex at the very end, if it turns over and they flip it to somebody else, what could happen out there? So